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Australia v England | 5th Test | Day 3 | 5th Jan 2014

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So sweet
Love the 5-0 song to Auld Lang Syne


We haven't played a 3 match series in Australia since 2001/02.

If you didn't almost got outscored by Glenn McGrath in an innings back in 2004 you'd probably have had more tests last time.
 
So sweet
Love the 5-0 song to Auld Lang Syne




If you didn't almost got outscored by Glenn McGrath in an innings back in 2004 you'd probably have had more tests last time.
You don't see the same happening to the Wallabies, I guess NZ and SA have bigger hearts :afridi

We smash them every time but still give them a much needed cash grab in a dead rubber Test.

It's sad to say but I don't see a future for cricket, it may be played in a few countries but I realistically see it dying it out.
 
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England played like a club side.
Congrats to the Aussie for their great performance
 
You don't see the same happening to the Wallabies, I guess NZ and SA have bigger hearts :afridi

We smash them every time but still give them a much needed cash grab in a dead rubber Test.

All Blacks have played 149 matches against Australia, 4 against Tonga and 5 against Fiji.

I see NZ are doing their bit to help the smaller countries in their own region Aman.
 
All Blacks have played 149 matches against Australia, 4 against Tonga and 5 against Fiji.

I see NZ are doing their bit to help the smaller countries in their own region Aman.
We just recently played Japan in Japan?.. When was the last time Australia played Bangladesh in Bangladesh?
 
We just recently played Japan in Japan?.. When was the last time Australia played Bangladesh in Bangladesh?

We should play in Bangladesh, form lyon is in with the bat he might follow dizzy and knock up a double ton.
 
We should play in Bangladesh, form lyon is in with the bat he might follow dizzy and knock up a double ton.
Doubt it, Bangladesh are actually quite good on flat wickets. They might even draw one.
 
You don't see the same happening to the Wallabies, I guess NZ and SA have bigger hearts :afridi

We smash them every time but still give them a much needed cash grab in a dead rubber Test.

It's sad to say but I don't see a future for cricket, it may be played in a few countries but I realistically see it dying it out.

i don't care about the Wallabies. I'm not a private school boy from Sydney.
 
Doubt it, Bangladesh are actually quite good on flat wickets. They might even draw one.

Just a joke, in fairness bangladesh are looking tougher to beat at home the last few years which is good to see.
 
We just recently played Japan in Japan?.. When was the last time Australia played Bangladesh in Bangladesh?

So NZ have played

Aus 149 times
SA 87 times
France 55 times
Japan 3 times.

Why don't the All blacks stop playing Australia, Sa and france so often and play Japan, Fiji and Tonga more often to help them improve their quality of rugby.
 
LOL it's probably just me but you sound very bitter Aman.
 
So NZ have played

Aus 149 times
SA 87 times
France 55 times
Japan 3 times.

Why don't the All blacks stop playing Australia, Sa and france so often and play Japan, Fiji and Tonga more often to help them improve their quality of rugby.
Their players play in our domestic comps (Super 15 and NPC) :facepalm:

Heck, even your players do.
 
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LOL it's probably just me but you sound very bitter Aman.
Tired of seeing the same thing happen over and over..

Seeing the WI and SL play the way they have hasn't helped.
 
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Tired of seeing the same thing happening over and over..

Why do you watch it then, we absolutely love it so we watch it. If you find it boring watching Aus v Eng why watch it. Go watch some domestic cricket in NZ instead.
 
Why do you watch it then, we absolutely love it so we watch it. If you find it boring watching Aus v Eng why watch it. Go watch some domestic cricket in NZ instead.
Not talking Aus v Eng, everything is very predictable about the teams ranked lower than 4.
 
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Australia 4/94 at lunch, day 1.

Win the game inside three days.
 
So why don't NZ stop playing so many matches against Aus, SA and france and more against Tonga, Fiji and Japan then.
Er, we're in a southern hemisphere tournament with SA, Argentina and Aus? Obviously we'd play them more often, just like England, France, Scotland, Wales, Italy and Ireland in the six nations.
 
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Tired of seeing the same thing happen over and over..

Seeing the WI and SL play the way they have hasn't helped.

Were you of the same opinion back in June when we were getting mullered? Don't make me do a post search please :D
 
What exactly has been predictable about the Ashes in the last decade? Absolutely nothing!

The rest of you who hate that we love our Ashes cricket got given pretty much the best cricket series ever in 2005, and the other ones were pretty good too, and thrilling, this tour and 2009 in England for example.

Congratulations Aussies, good value for the whitewash. We'll be back in 2015.
 
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I think best thing for NZ cricket would be to beat India in the upcoming series.
 
Er, we're in a southern hemisphere tournament with SA, Argentina and Aus? Obviously we'd play them more often, just like England, France, Scotland, Wales, Italy and Ireland in the six nations.

Just answer the question, why don't the All Blacks play against Tonga and Fiji more often than a token match every couple of years. The have managed to play Australia 149 times but Fiji only 5 time and Tonga 4 times. You come on here going on about cricket teams not playing the lower ranked nations enough but NZ do the same if not a lot worse in rugby. So answer the question why don't NZ play Tonga and Fiji more often in rugby tests.
 
Just answer the question, why don't the All Blacks play against Tonga and Fiji more often than a token match every couple of years. The have managed to play Australia 149 times but Fiji only 5 time and Tonga 4 times. You come on here going on about cricket teams not playing the lower ranked nations enough but NZ do the same if not a lot worse in rugby. So answer the question why don't NZ play Tonga and Fiji more often in rugby tests.
There's more than 8 teams playing the sport and everyone wants a piece of the AB's. Some teams end up getting the short end.
 
There's more than 8 teams playing the sport and everyone wants a piece of the AB's. Some teams end up getting the short end.

Well there is your answer, everyone wants a piece of Aus, Eng and Ind in cricket and some teams end up getting the short end.
 
You call that a circuit? :))

Nobody has come up with a better plan, just like cricket if your opening batsman is only averaging 30 but you don't have a batsman that can do better you have to play him.
 
Nobody has come up with a better plan, just like cricket if your opening batsman is only averaging 30 but you don't have a batsman that can do better you have to play him.
Plan is there, no one wants to implement it.

If the fan's all come up with the same solution why can't the muppets who run the game come up with the same conclusion?
 
That's no excuse when you only have 8 teams :manzoor

A rugby match only takes 3 hours and a cricket match takes five days.

How many rugby matches can a team play in a year compared to test matches,
 
NZ have won 1 Test against us in 15 years and 1 against Australia in 20 lol, couldn't be a team less deserving of greater exposure if you ask me.
 
Plan is there, no one wants to implement it.

No you just don't understand what a plan is, playing a whole heap of matches that just loses money is not a plan. NZ would not get money from the ICC is your plan was implemented and your costs would skyrocket. Please do some research, I'm done you don't have a clue.
 
A rugby match only takes 3 hours and a cricket match takes five days.

How many rugby matches can a team play in a year compared to test matches,
AB's played 14 Tests last year.
 
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NZ have won 1 Test against us in 15 years and 1 against Australia in 20 lol, couldn't be a team less deserving of greater exposure if you ask me.
Yeah WI, SL, Bangladesh and Pakistan haven't done much better have they?
 
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No you just don't understand what a plan is, playing a whole heap of matches that just loses money is not a plan. NZ would not get money from the ICC is your plan was implemented and your costs would skyrocket. Please do some research, I'm done you don't have a clue.
It's you that have lost sight and turned a blind eye to what's happening to Test cricket in other countries, you whine on about 'saving' Test cricket but overblowing with your constant Ashes series and BG series, but at the end of the day C3 have done nothing but worsen the quality of cricket by negating the growth of other nations who play little to no quality Test match cricket.

Money can only get you so far, but in the end it's the experiences in foreign conditions against quality bowlers that develop the player and I think you're devaluing that experience. You can't just expect money to solve all your problems, people won't become world class with world class facilities, if that were the case England wouldn't be rubbish in soccer.
 
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Yeah WI, SL, Bangladesh and Pakistan haven't done much better have they?

Since 2000 WI, SL and Pakistan have done much better against Eng, SA and Oz than your guys have, unless I'm missing the point?
 
Since 2000 WI, SL and Pakistan have done much better against Eng, SA and Oz than your guys have, unless I'm missing the point?
They've only bettered us by 1 or 2 at most, hardly something worthwhile to write on. That too considering their receding cricket future.
 
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It's you that have lost sight and turned a blind eye to what's happening to Test cricket in other countries, you whine on about 'saving' Test cricket but overblowing with your constant Ashes series and BG series, but at the end of the day C3 have done nothing but worsen the quality of cricket by negating the growth of other nations who play little to no quality Test match cricket.

Money can only get you so far, but in the end it's the experiences in foreign conditions against quality bowlers that develop the player and I think you're devaluing that experience. You can't just expect money to solve all your problems, people won't become world class with world class facilities, if that were the case England wouldn't be rubbish in soccer.

You are telling lies here Aman, I have never whined or even mentioned that test cricket needs saving. Don't start telling lies to build a strawman.

If you can show where I whined about saving test cricket I will apologise but up until you do that I expect you to apologise.

And if you say experience is all that is needed then tell us why NZ don't organise more cricket matches against SL, Pak, WI and SA, wouldent have something to do with money would it.
 
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You are telling lies here Aman, I have never whined or even mentioned that test cricket needs saving. Don't start telling lies to build a strawman.

If you can show where I whined about saving test cricket I will apologise but up until you do that I expect you to apologise.

And if you say experience is all that is needed then tell us why NZ don't organise more cricket matches against SL, Pak, WI and SA, wouldent have something to do with money would it.
Where do you think this money comes from Aman, did you think the ICC ran a couple of chook raffles, start being a bit more educated about what is happening in cricket or stop making absurd statements. NZ are one of the teams to benifit from cricket played between Aus, Ind and Eng.
^ Whine is the wrong word, but you definitely act like the C3 are some sort of saviors. Fact is cricket has gone no where under the helm of the C3.
 
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It's you that have lost sight and turned a blind eye to what's happening to Test cricket in other countries, you whine on about 'saving' Test cricket but overblowing with your constant Ashes series and BG series, but at the end of the day C3 have done nothing but worsen the quality of cricket by negating the growth of other nations who play little to no quality Test match cricket.

Money can only get you so far, but in the end it's the experiences in foreign conditions against quality bowlers that develop the player and I think you're devaluing that experience. You can't just expect money to solve all your problems, people won't become world class with world class facilities, if that were the case England wouldn't be rubbish in soccer.

I think the point of it though Kiwi is that success starts at home. Not necessarily in winning at home, but in creating a grassroots environment that identifies talent, nurtures it and develops it, mainly via competitive domestic competitions and then eventually into a national team setup that is professional and competitive. I've had many conversations with Kiwi friends at the Silverfern rugby forum about this over the past 10 years. This isn't really the thread for it as it will disappear soon after today, but the main problem in Enzed cricket is not in talent identification, as you have players who are talented. It's in the fact that you don't have a strong grassroots to develop the talent to the point where you can consistently be competitive in international cricket in turn.

It's a fallacy that just playing series against bigger teams makes you better, if that was the case then Bangladesh would be a lot better by now. South Africa was competitive after decades of international isolation. You need to improve your grassroots and your domestic setup because that's what creates a sustainable competitive advantage in sport. That's why the Wallabies have always struggled against the ABs or the Boks - we can pull out the odd victory and can beat the NH sides because the quality is there, but the players struggle against top tier competition because we don't really have a strong domestic comp to bridge the gap between grade rugby and Super Rugby. NZ cricket is no different. Your domestic competition is mediocre and that leads to inconsistency in your national side. Now there's merit in your comment about the fact that a country of four million only being good at one sport but I don't really buy that argument because it wasn't that long ago (20 years, maybe you weren't old enough to watch it back then) that your team was extremely competitive with not just Australia but with other countries. It's about grassroots investment in cricket. And the main responsibility with that rests with the NZ Cricket Board - not Australia, not England, or India or anyone else.

Regarding not giving teams Tests or w/e. I totally agree about 2 Test series and the fact that they are a waste of time. Unfortunately, at the end of the day this is the professional era and cricket boards need money to cover their overheads and put money back into their grassroots. There are reasons why countries like OZ, England and India are money spinners - it's because crowds in those countries go out to see the matches like they have this summer. I reckon close to a million people went thru the turnstiles to see what ended up becoming a one sided series this summer. Compare this with India vs SA where they would have been lucky to get 100,000 in 2 Tests. But it's just just a case of haves vs have nots - it was only 10 years ago that the West Indies consistently were given 5 Test series in both England and Australia and they combined hardly have a population much bigger than yours. Deliver the results and there will be a much stronger case for longer series from everyone.

I don't think it's really fair to rain on our parade or diminish the achievement of the OZ side just because you are feeling bad about NZ not getting the same 3 or 5 Test opportunity as England or India. You just need to lift the standard, and as I said that starts at home - at the grassroots.
 
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^ Whine is the wrong word, but you definitely act like some sort of savior. Fact is cricket has gone no where under the helm of the C3.

Act like some sort of Savior, I showed you how the ICC gave NZ $1.8mil and how they received that money. They are just facts Aman. You really need to learn how to read things in context, making up things for a strawman will only burn you.
 
I think the point of it though Kiwi is that success starts at home. Not necessarily in winning at home, but in creating a grassroots environment that identifies talent, nurtures it and develops it, mainly via competitive domestic competitions and then eventually into a national team setup that is professional and competitive. I've had many conversations with Kiwi friends at the Silverfern rugby forum about this over the past 10 years. This isn't really the thread for it as it will disappear soon after today, but the main problem in Enzed cricket is not in talent identification, as you have players who are talented. It's in the fact that you don't have a strong grassroots to develop the talent to the point where you can consistently be competitive in international cricket in turn.

It's a fallacy that just playing series against bigger teams makes you better, if that was the case then Bangladesh would be a lot better by now. South Africa was competitive after decades of international isolation. You need to improve your grassroots and your domestic setup because that's what creates a sustainable competitive advantage in sport. That's why the Wallabies have always struggled against the ABs or the Boks - we can pull out the odd victory and can beat the NH sides because the quality is there, but the players struggle against top tier competition because we don't really have a strong domestic comp to bridge the gap between grade rugby and Super Rugby. NZ cricket is no different. Your domestic competition is mediocre and that leads to inconsistency in your national side. Now there's merit in your comment about the fact that a country of four million only being good at one sport but I don't really buy that argument because it wasn't that long ago (20 years, maybe you weren't old enough to watch it back then) that your team was extremely competitive with not just Australia but with other countries. It's about grassroots investment in cricket. And the main responsibility with that rests with the NZ Cricket Board - not Australia, not England, or India or anyone else.

Regarding not giving teams Tests or w/e. I totally agree about 2 Test series and the fact that they are a waste of time. Unfortunately, at the end of the day this is the professional era and cricket boards need money to cover their overheads and put money back into their grassroots. There are reasons why countries like OZ, England and India are money spinners - it's because crowds in those countries go out to see the matches like they have this summer. I reckon close to a million people went thru the turnstiles to see what ended up becoming a one sided series this summer. Compare this with India vs SA where they would have been lucky to get 100,000 in 2 Tests. But it's just just a case of haves vs have nots - it was only 10 years ago that the West Indies consistently were given 5 Test series in both England and Australia and they combined hardly have a population much bigger than yours. Deliver the results and there will be a much stronger case for longer series from everyone.

I don't think it's really fair to rain on our parade or diminish the achievement of the OZ side just because you are feeling bad about NZ not getting the same 3 or 5 Test opportunity as England or India. You just need to lift the standard, and as I said that starts at home - at the grassroots.
First of all it's nothing against Australia this is more so about the reaction we would have received had we put up the same performance. I doubt we would have been invited again for another 20 years at least, but nope they'll be another Ashes series in 18-24 months.. We're given 2 Tests for the very such performances but for the wealthier nations the same performances are perfectly acceptable because they draw. I understand boards need to pay their bills but it still leaves a bitter taste.

Seeing the same 2-3 teams playing each other and giving their players more and more experience against the best just destroys hope of any resurgence from us or the other lesser teams, as I know our players will have to work that bit harder to try to make up for that advantage those teams have gotten from playing quality international cricket. And when your working on half a leg it just makes that climb that much harder and pretty much nye on impossible.

I've already given up on us improving our domestic structure, NZ is a rugby mad country and giving funding to cricket when the results are so poor and followed by a few is beyond the question. It would be great, but I don't think cricket really warrants the funding for those reasons.
 
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Congrats to AUS for this 0-5 demolition.

They just wanted it more than ENG, for whom all the chickens came home to roost at once.
 
First of all it's nothing against Australia this is more so about the reaction we would have received had we put up the same performance. I doubt we would have been invited again for another 20 years at least, but nope they'll be another Ashes series in 18-24 months.. We're given 2 Tests for the very such performances but for the wealthier nations the same performances are perfectly acceptable because they draw. I understand boards need to pay their bills but it still leaves a bitter taste.

Seeing the same 2-3 teams playing each other and giving their players more and more experience against the best just destroys hope of any resurgence from us or the other lesser teams, as I know our players will have to work that bit harder to try to make up for that advantage those teams have gotten from playing quality international cricket. And when your working on half a leg it just makes that climb that much harder and pretty much nye on impossible.

I've already given up on us improving our domestic structure, NZ is a rugby mad country and giving funding to cricket when the results are so poor and followed by a few is beyond the question. It would be great, but I don't think cricket really warrants the funding for those reasons.

Well that's the same issue Australia are facing in football (soccer). You just have to play the hand you are dealt and figure out how to improve. To be fair though England came into this series ranked No3 in the world and off a 3-0 win in the northern summer. Nobody in their wildest dreams would have expected a 5-0 drubbing - you just need to look at all the posts before this series started. But teams like England have a solid domestic competition, solid infrastructure. They have the ability to rebuild and respond. And the Ashes is a special competition, much like the Bledisloe. I don't see anyone in NZ saying the Bledisloe needs to stop being awarded even though we haven't won it in 10 years. Those are special , traditional relationships that countries have in certain sporting fixtures.

I had a look at the series we have played in the past 10 years (since 2003):

  • vs Bangladesh: 2 series, 1 home, 1 away, won 2
  • vs England: 6 series, 3 home, 3 away, won 2
  • vs India: 7 series, 3 home, 4 away, won 3, drawn 1
  • vs NZ: 5 series, 3 home, 2 away, won 4, drawn 1
  • vs Pak: 3 series, 2 home, 1 away, won 2, drawn 1
  • vs SL: 5 series, 3 home, 2 away, won 5
  • vs SA: 6 series, 3 home, 3 away, won 3, drawn 1
  • vs WI: 5 series, 2 home, 3 away, won 5
  • vs Zimbabwe: 1 series, 1 home, won 1


If anything it's been Pakistan that we haven't played as much as I think we should. In the 1990s we played Pakistan 5 times. No surprise that during those times was when they had the likes of Imran, Akram, Akhtar, Inzamam, Shoaib et al. Big crowd drawers.
 
Bledisloe is a poor example, no one cares about Aus anymore :D

It's all back on SA now.
 
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