Australia v Pakistan | 1st Test | Brisbane | Dec 15-19, 2016 | Pre-Match Thread

[sl-fan-of-pak]

Just read that the pitch may not assist reverse swing and that Mickey Arthur will be picking horses for courses..this should mean we will not be seeing Wahab play. Plus, Sohail Khans footmarks will surely assist Yasir...

But the problem is the 1st change bowler...I don't think Sohail suits that role, neither does Rahat, because he deserves to be the opening bowler.

 

[MMHS]

Amir, Rahat & Imran probably will be the 3 pacers. Ideally Sohail should have been the new ball bowler, but he won't last long for a 4 bowler strategy. Also, Aussies will play at least 6 lefties - something shouldn't help Sohail.

Amir & Rahat to take the new ball & Imran to bowl long, tight spells. No matter how green the wicket is, PAK must play Yasir, simply because they need someone to take the load of 48-58 overs in 4 days.

Such a poor, poor squad selection for ANZ tour - by everyday, it's becoming obvious.

 

[Syed1]

Such a poor, poor squad selection for ANZ tour - by everyday, it's becoming obvious.

If today you were in Inzi's chair what changes would you have made to the squad to make it suitable for ANZ tour?

 

[MMHS]

If today you were in Inzi's chair what changes would you have made to the squad to make it suitable for ANZ tour?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-fails-in-the-1st-Test&highlight=FAHIM+ASHRAF

Post # 25

 

[Pete Rose]

Such a poor, poor squad selection for ANZ tour - by everyday, it's becoming obvious.

This has no logical basis whatsoever.
If people think we will lose because of squad selection: rather than lack of exposure to these conditions, then they deluding themselves.

 

[MMHS]

This has no logical basis whatsoever.
If people think we will lose because of squad selection: rather than lack of exposure to these conditions, then they deluding themselves.

Either way PAK can lose, may be even 3-0 - but, you have to put some logic behind playing Ajmal, Malik, Afrid & MoHa is an ODI at Jo'burg & then playing Sami, Amir, Wahab & Irfan in a T20 at Eden Gardens. And then picking identical 16 men for 8 Tests around globe at UAE, NZ & AUS condition, including a D/N Test and opponents teams diversified enough to have 10 right-handers to 7 left-handers in playing XI. That too, after losing 3 consecutive Tests to at best average teams.

PAK Test team is quite settled, & I'll tell that after even if it's 5-0 after down under trip - 8/9 players make the starting XI by default as there is no better/fitter options available, including a given spots to YK which can't be negotiated - therefore for selecting that squad you don't need to be genius or a high profile CS. But, a 4 months duel tour down under should be covered with options & I don't see that in this squad.

 

[Pete Rose]

Either way PAK can lose, may be even 3-0 - but, you have to put some logic behind playing Ajmal, Malik, Afrid & MoHa is an ODI at Jo'burg & then playing Sami, Amir, Wahab & Irfan in a T20 at Eden Gardens. And then picking identical 16 men for 8 Tests around globe at UAE, NZ & AUS condition, including a D/N Test and opponents teams diversified enough to have 10 right-handers to 7 left-handers in playing XI. That too, after losing 3 consecutive Tests to at best average teams.

PAK Test team is quite settled, & I'll tell that after even if it's 5-0 after down under trip - 8/9 players make the starting XI by default as there is no better/fitter options available, including a given spots to YK which can't be negotiated - therefore for selecting that squad you don't need to be genius or a high profile CS. But, a 4 months duel tour down under should be covered with options & I don't see that in this squad.

I am note sure what the first paragraph is so I'll ignore that. This is test cricket, not a moneyball fantasy where you plug and play any random individual without giving any regard for things like confidence of being part of a stable squad. I think you are wrong to say that this squad has no options. Other than Yk and Misbah who should not be playing because the rest of the squad selects itself.

Its tempting to assume that there is some trick selection that can be a stroke of genius: there isn't.

 

[MMHS]

I am note sure what the first paragraph is so I'll ignore that. This is test cricket, not a moneyball fantasy where you plug and play any random individual without giving any regard for things like confidence of being part of a stable squad. I think you are wrong to say that this squad has no options. Other than Yk and Misbah who should not be playing because the rest of the squad selects itself.

Its tempting to assume that there is some trick selection that can be a stroke of genius: there isn't.

I am helping you to understand the first para, so that you can't ignore that.

The first para is to explain that despite being underdog, you don't pick random teams. It was an explanation of your comment "we will lose because of squad selection: rather than lack of exposure to these conditions"

Not many people will back PAK to beat SAF in an ODI at J'burg; neither IND in a WC match - but apart from exposure & opponents quality, you have to think about the team selection before playing 4 spinners & 3 of them being offie at J'burg, where due to altitude, ball often goes basaltic. And, playing 3 hit the deck fast bowlers at Eden is a similar delusion at opposite direction. Now, those were teams selected by Qasim & Rashid - two gentleman almost man-handled often here at PP - this team is selected by the savior of PAK cricket - the CS & the Captain. Result of a series is the summary of small pieces, selection of squad is one of those pieces.

Now, for the squad - absolutely no way Nawaz should be there. And, God willing - that was busted with one of the fittest player becoming question mark. Yasir had a scare, hence Asghar was summoned at first chance - when there was a left-arm spinner already selected, who apparently has better batting skills.

This is just the start - I am expecting Hamza to replace another "Injured" pacer, if Kamran gets fit - the fittest cricketer on the touring side, Rizwan will get unfit.

This is a short explanation - for details you have to click the link I posted here - would appreciate if you bother to respond on that - why CS shouldn't get a fail mark for this squad, even if PAK wins 3-0.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Problem is our sub 150 scores. Everytime down under we do this.

 

[Pete Rose]

I am helping you to understand the first para, so that you can't ignore that.

The first para is to explain that despite being underdog, you don't pick random teams. It was an explanation of your comment "we will lose because of squad selection: rather than lack of exposure to these conditions"

Not many people will back PAK to beat SAF in an ODI at J'burg; neither IND in a WC match - but apart from exposure & opponents quality, you have to think about the team selection before playing 4 spinners & 3 of them being offie at J'burg, where due to altitude, ball often goes basaltic. And, playing 3 hit the deck fast bowlers at Eden is a similar delusion at opposite direction. Now, those were teams selected by Qasim & Rashid - two gentleman almost man-handled often here at PP - this team is selected by the savior of PAK cricket - the CS & the Captain. Result of a series is the summary of small pieces, selection of squad is one of those pieces.

Now, for the squad - absolutely no way Nawaz should be there. And, God willing - that was busted with one of the fittest player becoming question mark. Yasir had a scare, hence Asghar was summoned at first chance - when there was a left-arm spinner already selected, who apparently has better batting skills.

This is just the start - I am expecting Hamza to replace another "Injured" pacer, if Kamran gets fit - the fittest cricketer on the touring side, Rizwan will get unfit.

This is a short explanation - for details you have to click the link I posted here - would appreciate if you bother to respond on that - why CS shouldn't get a fail mark for this squad, even if PAK wins 3-0.

Surely, you cant expect me to give credence to such shallow analysis driven by picking up two instances of contrarian selection across two different formats? I mean do i really have to even make the effort to discredit this line of thinking by pointing the literally 100's of time that Pakistan have gone to win matches by selecting a stable squad without resorting to funky selections.

Now on the the main point: you say "such a poor poor selection" for a squad where 14 out of 16 players pick themselves. That statement is completely and utterly indefensible. Unless your definition of "poor poor selection" = mohammad nawaz was selected as a spinning all-rounder. I do not consider that a right move or or a wrong move, I think its their desire to groom a test all-rounder who might actually play in Syndey along with Yasir.
As for Pakistan's tradition of losing nerve and sending tried and test failures when the going gets tough, that is not the same as saying it is a "poor, poor squad"

 

[MMHS]

Surely, you cant expect me to give credence to such shallow analysis driven by picking up two instances of contrarian selection across two different formats? I mean do i really have to even make the effort to discredit this line of thinking by pointing the literally 100's of time that Pakistan have gone to win matches by selecting a stable squad without resorting to funky selections.

Now on the the main point: you say "such a poor poor selection" for a squad where 14 out of 16 players pick themselves. That statement is completely and utterly indefensible. Unless your definition of "poor poor selection" = mohammad nawaz was selected as a spinning all-rounder. I do not consider that a right move or or a wrong move, I think its their desire to groom a test all-rounder who might actually play in Syndey along with Yasir.
As for Pakistan's tradition of losing nerve and sending tried and test failures when the going gets tough, that is not the same as saying it is a "poor, poor squad"

Actually 3 different formats - Test, ODI & T20 - still it's cricket though. PAK hasn't won much to be honest with their stable selection outside UAE, that too assisted by lots of toss winnings. In fact stability has made the team's average age officially 31 & has resulted 0-3, 0-2, 1-1 in places where that stable XI wasn't suited. Funky selection may be, but playing Nawaz in UAE & then giving 10 overs, to bring back Zulfiqar very next Test is too much stability as well.

This is extremely poor team selection, because when you have 12-13 players picks themselves, you have just about 2/3 spots to work with - and Inzi failed in that measurably. When 80 marks are given for attendance, you have very little to do in the exam you know. Besides, no one is questioning the batting selections - may be apart from YK; this is whats best available. And selection of Nawaz as Spin "All-rounder" ............ at least give me a respite here.

Now, coming back to your 100's of example - that actually exposes your understanding of the playing condition. PAK's "Stable" team is perfect for UAE, where you can bowl 130 overs by 2 spinners, another 20 by 3rd spinner/part-timer & may be 50 with 2 pacers. Those 2 spinners will give you tight spells, even if they don't get wickets. IN AUS/NZ, it'll be foolish to expect the same with 2 spinners - even for that the initial option was wrong - for the sake of saying, even if I take that PAK can play 2 spinners at MCG & SCG - a 2nd specialist spinner should have been picked. This team was selected after the Adelaide Test, where AUS played 7 lefties & most of them will play against PAK - 2 spinners can be an option, but that's only with Yasir & Ajmal; or Yasir with another Leggi, OR even Yasir with Asghar - NO WAY, Yasir & Nawaz. 0 for this one - still stuck at 80 for attendance. And, you carefully avoided the part - why Asghar was summoned, despite having a SLAO spinner with the squad already, but we can ignore that - the squad is poor, poor not only for that one.

2nd - At Old Traford, Birmingham & finally at Hamilton, it was clearly evident that PAK pacers can't take more than 20 overs work load in an innings, 35 max in a match. For PAK's fortune, the Hamilton Test was rain interrupted, hence, bowlers were never forced to bowl 90 overs in a day - which they had to do in the previous 2 Tests I mentioned & poor Yasir had to bowl 130+ overs on unresponsive wickets in 8 days - Stability didn't help him or PAK much there. Coming to the combination, this squad doesn't have the option of 5-1-2-3 formation for it's picks - couple of all-rounders could have kept that option. Now, it's given that PAK will play 4 bowlers or even 4 pacers. Another 0; still stuck at 80 for attendance. We can ignore "poor, poor" part here as well, even considering that there was a D/N Test scheduled about a year before the team was selected & 3 Tests were there to show the performance of finger spinners in D/N Test.

3. Amir is a strike bowler - he is not like old Asif, who can bowl 25 overs in a day. Off course he can, but that won't be effective, neither Wahab or Rahat while Sohail is incapable of continuing after 15 overs. To be most effective, this attack can function best, if there is couple of bowlers who can give 60 overs in a 100 overs innings, so that Amir & Sohail/Wahab/Rahat can bowl flat-out for 35-38 overs combined - Yasir is one, who can give 30, may be even 35, but, there is no work horse in the team. They should have picked Hamza at least, who has been bowling well & can bowl 25 tight overs. Now, if AUS doesn't lose 3/4 inside 23-25 overs, it'll be impossible to manage work load with Amir, Wahab, Sohail & Rahat. Another 0, OK, may be 5 because there is Imran - that's 85 out of 100, when 80 was already given for attendance. Here also, we can ignore "poor, poor" part, because this same team is very settled in UAE.

Anyway, I tried my best to explain why the combination picked for AUS, particularly after 2-0 in NZ was poor, but can't explain it to someone who thinks same "stability" on UAE condition is applicable in AUS/NZ - even then the squad is poor - Zulfi should have been there .

 

[Pete Rose]

Actually 3 different formats - Test, ODI & T20 - still it's cricket though. PAK hasn't won much to be honest with their stable selection outside UAE, that too assisted by lots of toss winnings. In fact stability has made the team's average age officially 31 & has resulted 0-3, 0-2, 1-1 in places where that stable XI wasn't suited. Funky selection may be, but playing Nawaz in UAE & then giving 10 overs, to bring back Zulfiqar very next Test is too much stability as well.

This is extremely poor team selection, because when you have 12-13 players picks themselves, you have just about 2/3 spots to work with - and Inzi failed in that measurably. When 80 marks are given for attendance, you have very little to do in the exam you know. Besides, no one is questioning the batting selections - may be apart from YK; this is whats best available. And selection of Nawaz as Spin "All-rounder" ............ at least give me a respite here.

Now, coming back to your 100's of example - that actually exposes your understanding of the playing condition. PAK's "Stable" team is perfect for UAE, where you can bowl 130 overs by 2 spinners, another 20 by 3rd spinner/part-timer & may be 50 with 2 pacers. Those 2 spinners will give you tight spells, even if they don't get wickets. IN AUS/NZ, it'll be foolish to expect the same with 2 spinners - even for that the initial option was wrong - for the sake of saying, even if I take that PAK can play 2 spinners at MCG & SCG - a 2nd specialist spinner should have been picked. This team was selected after the Adelaide Test, where AUS played 7 lefties & most of them will play against PAK - 2 spinners can be an option, but that's only with Yasir & Ajmal; or Yasir with another Leggi, OR even Yasir with Asghar - NO WAY, Yasir & Nawaz. 0 for this one - still stuck at 80 for attendance. And, you carefully avoided the part - why Asghar was summoned, despite having a SLAO spinner with the squad already, but we can ignore that - the squad is poor, poor not only for that one.

2nd - At Old Traford, Birmingham & finally at Hamilton, it was clearly evident that PAK pacers can't take more than 20 overs work load in an innings, 35 max in a match. For PAK's fortune, the Hamilton Test was rain interrupted, hence, bowlers were never forced to bowl 90 overs in a day - which they had to do in the previous 2 Tests I mentioned & poor Yasir had to bowl 130+ overs on unresponsive wickets in 8 days - Stability didn't help him or PAK much there. Coming to the combination, this squad doesn't have the option of 5-1-2-3 formation for it's picks - couple of all-rounders could have kept that option. Now, it's given that PAK will play 4 bowlers or even 4 pacers. Another 0; still stuck at 80 for attendance. We can ignore "poor, poor" part here as well, even considering that there was a D/N Test scheduled about a year before the team was selected & 3 Tests were there to show the performance of finger spinners in D/N Test.

3. Amir is a strike bowler - he is not like old Asif, who can bowl 25 overs in a day. Off course he can, but that won't be effective, neither Wahab or Rahat while Sohail is incapable of continuing after 15 overs. To be most effective, this attack can function best, if there is couple of bowlers who can give 60 overs in a 100 overs innings, so that Amir & Sohail/Wahab/Rahat can bowl flat-out for 35-38 overs combined - Yasir is one, who can give 30, may be even 35, but, there is no work horse in the team. They should have picked Hamza at least, who has been bowling well & can bowl 25 tight overs. Now, if AUS doesn't lose 3/4 inside 23-25 overs, it'll be impossible to manage work load with Amir, Wahab, Sohail & Rahat. Another 0, OK, may be 5 because there is Imran - that's 85 out of 100, when 80 was already given for attendance. Here also, we can ignore "poor, poor" part, because this same team is very settled in UAE.

Anyway, I tried my best to explain why the combination picked for AUS, particularly after 2-0 in NZ was poor, but can't explain it to someone who thinks same "stability" on UAE condition is applicable in AUS/NZ - even then the squad is poor - Zulfi should have been there .

Appreciate the effort. But this is one of those let's find the much smaller sample of the number of times things have gone and try to present that as an overarching narrative. It isn't.
The standout howlers in the analysis are
- ignoring the wins in England with the same stability
- assuming that fast bowler are expect to bowl 20+ overs as per norm. That only happens when you don't bowl well or drop catches: either way you don't select extra bowlers to overcome poor execution
- there is not a single shred of insight on how shaking up the squad for funky selections would have changed the outcome in each of those matches which were lost due to poor batting
- the day night test will feature 3vpacers and a spinner and won't last five days , I have no idea what your point is here.
I really don't think there's any wisdom here beyond the weight of the words. We can keep going at this for the sake of egos, but there's really no further insight to be gleaned here.

 

[MMHS]

Appreciate the effort. But this is one of those let's find the much smaller sample of the number of times things have gone and try to present that as an overarching narrative. It isn't.
The standout howlers in the analysis are
- ignoring the wins in England with the same stability
- assuming that fast bowler are expect to bowl 20+ overs as per norm. That only happens when you don't bowl well or drop catches: either way you don't select extra bowlers to overcome poor execution
- there is not a single shred of insight on how shaking up the squad for funky selections would have changed the outcome in each of those matches which were lost due to poor batting
- the day night test will feature 3vpacers and a spinner and won't last five days , I have no idea what your point is here.
I really don't think there's any wisdom here beyond the weight of the words. We can keep going at this for the sake of egos, but there's really no further insight to be gleaned here.

Let's forget about the ego, which we can understand, whose problem regarding stability is UAE & outside. Let me answer you one by one

1. 2 Win's in ENG wasn't part of stability AT all - there were several changes between 2 Tests after 2 losses
- both openers were replaced
- batting order changed
- all-rounder Hafeez was replaced by all-rounder Iftekhar
- Sohail was brought back to break the sequence of left-arm pacers.

That squad was suitable for ENG condition for the seemers picked there. And, that squad had another spinner as Ajmal's back-up. Good, bad but still a specialist spinner.

Besdies, you missed the key point - that team was selected after a Series win in UAE against same opponents. This team is selected after 3 losses, with a D/N Test scheduled..

2. I am not asking to select extra bowler - I am asking for selecting fitter bowlers after the show of PAK pacers in rain interrupted 4 Day Test in NZ. If you think that D/N Test won't last even 4 days, I can only say that my expectation was a bit higher.

Regarding the bowling option, it's not about selecting 5 bowlers; rather I am for selecting 3 specialist bowlers & 2 all-rounders who gives better batting depth (which will be a factor) & work-load sharing. That option is not there in the squad - I am not going by the names, but, it was possible to go with 5 batsman, Sarfraz, 2 seem bowling all-rounders & 3 specialist bowlers.

3. The outcome won't have changed for the batting show & wrong strategy of trying to increase scoring rate from 2 to 6 - that's one part of the problem. But, success of Gronhomme indicates that couple of seem all-rounders would have made a better combination. At least, the 2nd Test could have been saved.

4. You managed to miss my point - for once, PAK should never play 2 spinners in a Test in AUS; but the 16 men squad didn't have the cover for an injury to Yasir - that's why it was corrected at first chance. If you have comprehension problem, can't help.

The key to win the Test - bat well, bowl well & field well. But, there are horses for courses & that's why they pick different bowling combinations for different match/tours. Now I understand why that J'burg & Eden example went over head - any XI can win any Test, any where as long as they bat, bowl & catch well.

Here is definitely no wisdom, if someone thinks that not taking EXACTLY same 16 to UAE, NZ & AUS is funky selection - that too after 3 consecutive losses. There is no further insights, as "Stability" is the key - be it in UAE, NZ or AUS.

 

[Ind_Fan]

How many day nighters, I dont know the Pak tour itinerary , hence asking.......

 

[Sachin136]

How many day nighters, I dont know the Pak tour itinerary , hence asking.......

Only one at Brisbane in the first test.

 

[Ind_Fan]

Thnx Sachin....

 

[Sadevdesai]

Our real problem is batting, either in the 1st inning or the 2nd or even both. We play a 5 day Test Match like it is an ODI. The trick is to grind the opposition by not throwing our wickets away. This is sorely missing. How many 100 run partnerships we have had lately ???? May be the ODIs or the T20s has badly effected our Test Match batting. We need to quickly correct that, otherwise we will soon talk about, " What we learned " or "Wrong shot selections" and such topics as usual. Our bowling can stop any other batting side but .... batting ... god help us !!!

 

[Speedster777]

With Poor batting and poor fast bowling don't have any high expectations. I think the following should have been our bowling attack:

Asif
Amir
Irfan
Junaid
Wahab / Yasir Shah (depending on the pitch)

 

[On_the_up]

Micky asking the team for scores of 250 to 300. Hardly inspiring targets. Maybe he's being realistic/resigned to the capability of the team in this dept.

 

[troodon]

Players with poor fitness will get exposed in Aus.

The outfields are big and a lot of running is involved. Especially for bowlers who has to run a lot during fielding and then have to bowl on roads.

 

[MMHS]

Micky asking the team for scores of 250 to 300. Hardly inspiring targets. Maybe he's being realistic/resigned to the capability of the team in this dept.

550 is not a bad match total for D/N Test. So far, we have only one innings of 300+ in 2 D/N Tests. Apart from that 380+ (& 127/3) in a dead rubber by Aussies, other scores are ~250 by SAF twice, and the 1st D/N Test had scores like 220, 216, 200 & 187/7. What is important is to keep attacking always with ball & holding on to catches. Key could be Yasir - if he can bowl 48 overs at around 2.6; other 2 bowlers can keep attacking for other end in short spells.

 

[Markhor]

Will be surprised if this goes five days given how vulnerable both teams are in seaming and swinging conditions. Pink ball in Australia has done quite a bit under lights and the pitch is expected to be grassy to protect the condition of the ball.

The batsmen have got to deliver after the last three dismal Tests. Need at least 280-300 minimum to give our bowlers something to work with.

 

[On_the_up]

550 is not a bad match total for D/N Test. So far, we have only one innings of 300+ in 2 D/N Tests. Apart from that 380+ (& 127/3) in a dead rubber by Aussies, other scores are ~250 by SAF twice, and the 1st D/N Test had scores like 220, 216, 200 & 187/7. What is important is to keep attacking always with ball & holding on to catches. Key could be Yasir - if he can bowl 48 overs at around 2.6; other 2 bowlers can keep attacking for other end in short spells.

He was talking generally about the 3 tests, not the D/N one in particular. For the Brisbane test, 600 runs is likely to be enough, although if Warner/Smith/Khawaja get stuck in, Australia will be scoring 200+ in the daylight sessions alone.

 

[MMHS]

He was talking generally about the 3 tests, not the D/N one in particular. For the Brisbane test, 600 runs is likely to be enough, although if Warner/Smith/Khawaja get stuck in, Australia will be scoring 200+ in the daylight sessions alone.

Even in MCG/SCG, 600 might be just good enough; definitely fighting. After IND/NZ series, I think there had been enough criticism for the wickets & we have seen good wickets at Hobart, even WACA. However, if it's about setting target, then definitely 250-300 indicates lack of ambition or confidence. Probably, he made sure that, there are not many counter question - after 130, 170, 216 & 230; had he said 450 as the target for 1st innings, you know.

 

[Ab Fan]

What sort of pitch its gonna be?

If its not completely flat, it will be fun series.

 

[Justcrazy]

If pakistan can latch on to all catches , they should make it tough for Australia for sure.

 

[New Yorker]

If today you were in Inzi's chair what changes would you have made to the squad to make it suitable for ANZ tour?

Inzi's lack of options is not something he entirely inherited from someone
else. He could have started trialling new players during the Windies series.

 

[aloo paratha]

No way that Rahat should play, Amir Sohail and Imran are my picks.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Expect the same team as the practice match.

 

[MMHS]

Expect the same team as the practice match.

Is Yasir out?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Is Yasir out?

He replaces Nawaz if fully healthy.

 

[Sachin136]

Don’t want to deprive Australians of chance to see Yasir Shah, says Mickey Arthur

BRISBANE: Pakistan coach Mickey Arthur said he doesn’t want to deprive the spectators a chance to watch Yasir Shah as he is confident the leg-spinner will be fit to face Australia in this week’s day-night opening Test of a three-match series at the Gabba in Brisbane.

Yasir, who was left out of Pakistan’s final Test of the recent series in New Zealand, missed last week’s pink-ball tour match against a Cricket Australia XI in Cairns because of a back injury sustained in training.

“I saw him at the team hotel before I came and he seemed fine,” Arthur told reporters in Brisbane. “Which is good because you don’t want to deprive the Australian public the chance to see an unbelievable leg-spinner go about his business. And obviously he is integral to our plans as well.”

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1260897...ans-chance-see-yasir-shah-says-mickey-arthur/

 

[Asim2Good]

Pakistani fans ll never ever be happy which ever team is selected or are final playing XI
we have our bunch of darling players and players who we love to hate.
doesn't matter which players we select, they ll b exposed after playing 2-3 series

 

[Ellipsism]

No way that Rahat should play, Amir Sohail and Imran are my picks.

Mickey isn't a huge fan of Imran.

 

[Junaids]

Some really unprepared comments on this thread so far in terms of Day/Night Pink ball cricket in Australia.

So here is your primer:

1. SCORES ARE MUCH LOWER THAN IN NORMAL TEST CRICKET
- the first two Day/Night Tests in Australia exactly followed the pattern of the 25 First Class Day/Night matches.
- this is because the grass on the pitch is kept to a long - and standardized - length to protect the pink ball.
- the innings scores so far have been:
202 (65.2 overs)
224 (72.1 overs)
208 (62.5 overs)
187-7 (51 overs)
259-9d (76 overs)
383 (121.1 overs)
250 (85.2 overs)
127-3 (40.5 overs)

- in other words, no team has EVER scored 400 in an innings, and only 2 completed innings out of 6 have reached a second new ball.

2. THE PINK BALL NEVER TAKES REVERSE SWING
- This is because the outfield is kept green to protect the ball.

3. IT'S HARDEST TO BAT IN THE FIRST HOUR OF THE LAST SESSION
- the ball starts to swing again and the light is constantly changing.
- in domestic cricket we typically see 4-5 wickets fall in that first hour after dinner.
- the last hour of the last session is still tricky, but not as tricky to bat in.

4. THE GRASS ON THE PITCH MINIMISES SPIN
- Nathan Lyon has got some spin, generally under lights.
- the bowlers don't create dangerous footmarks because the grass holds the pitch together, which is why Pakistan is likely to use all three left-arm quicks even though Australia has an off-spinner.

5. ALMOST ALL THE AUSSIE BATSMEN ARE LEFT-HANDERS
- this is the main reason why Pakistan is contemplating fielding all three left-arm quicks.
- the ball pitching outside off-stump can be given LBW - which helps left-armers bowling to left-handers whereas the ball pitching outside leg-stump cannot (which ruins the effectiveness of Sohail Khan and Imran Khan).

6. THREE OF THE AUSSIE BATSMEN ARE ROOKIES
- Opener Matt Renshaw and Number 5 Peter Handscomb and Number 6 Nic Maddinson.

7. 300 IS A WINNING SCORE

8. YOU HAVE TO SCORE FAST IN DAYLIGHT, THEN DECLARE

 

[Junaids]

Expanding on my declaration comment above..........

It's hard work to bowl people out in daylight, except on the first day.

The grass dries out and neither reverse swing nor spin works. As a bowling team, if you have to bowl in daylight you need to be supremely economical so that the scoreboard doesn't advance before Dinner.

During the Dinner break the humidity starts to revitalize the grass on the pitch so seam movement returns, as does swing in the air.

But it's still conventional swing. And so it works best with a new ball.

It means that the team strategy has to change from that used in a day Test. This Pink Ball Day/Night business in Australia is actually like a hybrid between ODI and Test cricket.

You obviously try not to lose wickets against the new ball, even in daylight. But then as a batting team in daylight you have to press down hard on the accelerator and score as many runs as you can before Dinner, so that you can declare and bowl when bowling is easiest.

Consider two ways of scoring 240 and then bowling:

1. The Pakistan way:
Session 1: 60-3
Session 2: 150-4
Session 3: 240 all out at the close

This is a disaster in Aussie Day/Night conditions. You have scored too slowly in good batting conditions, and then used up the good bowling conditions to crawl your way to a decent total. But now the opposition will get to bat in Daylight tomorrow, and your bowlers will have no assistance.

Option 2: The Aussie Day/Night way
Session 1: 100-3 (first hour 30-2, second hour scoring at 4 per over)
Session 2: 240-7 declared (scoring at 4.5 per over through the session
Session 3: First hour reduce opposition to 30-5, ultimately 60-7 at the close.

There is just no point crawling to a higher total and using up the hardest batting conditions to do so.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] I salute your effort.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Some highly optimistic comments.

1. Pakistan can't even bat at 2 an over, and you expect them to bat at 4 per over in Brisbane.

2. You somehow expect that if Pakistan are to reach 220-7 in two sessions, they will declare. Again this is NEVER going to happen.

The chances of point 1 happening are 20-80 at 4 per over

The chances of point 2 happening are 0.01 to 99.99 against declaration.

Just my two cents.

 

[LegendAli]

Going to be much more entertaining than the NZ series.

Going to be a packed house hopefully.

 

[Ellipsism]

Going to be much more entertaining than the NZ series.

Going to be a packed house hopefully.

Brisbane will be moderately full. Sydney will have the biggest crowd and the largest Pakistani contingent (me including).

 

[Bilal7]

Six great deliveries, not spread too far apart will win us this test. Two each for Warner, Khawaja and Smith. The rest of their batting lineup will collapse against a Pakistani bowling attack on top. I can definitely see our guys put 270-300 on the board. InshAllah.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Brisbane will be moderately full. Sydney will have the biggest crowd and the largest Pakistani contingent (me including).

According to Smith, highest sales outside of an Ashes test at Brisbane.

 

[Junaids]

Some highly optimistic comments.

1. Pakistan can't even bat at 2 an over, and you expect them to bat at 4 per over in Brisbane.

2. You somehow expect that if Pakistan are to reach 220-7 in two sessions, they will declare. Again this is NEVER going to happen.

The chances of point 1 happening are 20-80 at 4 per over

The chances of point 2 happening are 0.01 to 99.99 against declaration.

Just my two cents.

That's what successful teams do in domestic First Class Pink Ball Day/Night cricket in Australia.

You don't even play your Test team. You play your Test BOWLERS, but you actually lean more towards 20 and 50 overs specialists with the batting, because you know that you have at least 60 and at most 90 overs to score your runs if you want to be able to bowl at night.

 

[Junaids]

Brisbane will be moderately full. Sydney will have the biggest crowd and the largest Pakistani contingent (me including).

We should meet up!

We can fight about the fixers in person.

I've got tickets to Days 1-4 at Sydney.

 

[Junaids]

According to Smith, highest sales outside of an Ashes test at Brisbane.

Brisbane gets awful attendances due to the sweltering humidity and horrible stadium.

The two Adelaide Day/Night Tests each got 125,000 seats sold, across 3 days last year and 4 this time - so an average of around 35,000 per day.

Cricket Australia is hoping for 80,000 in total at the Gabba, which is 15,000 to 20,000 per day.

 

[Junaids]

2. You somehow expect that if Pakistan are to reach 220-7 in two sessions, they will declare. Again this is NEVER going to happen.

The longest you would ever hope to bat in a Day/Night Test in Australia is 90 overs. That's if the opposition declares on the stroke of the Dinner Break, so you want to bat through until the same time tomorrow, then unleash your bowlers.

The shortest you would ever hope to bat is if you are sent in to bat first. You really want to get your innings completed by Dinner so that you can bowl in the best conditions - that's 60 overs.

You see, there is a second danger if you start bowling too late in the final session. Every over you have to bowl in daylight the following day is one over fewer that you have to score your runs before you declare at Dinner.

As I keep saying, this is NOT conventional Test cricket. Bowling-wise it is, but batting-wise it's a very different game in which you have to score fast in daylight.

If I had to build a Pakistan team to win a Day/Night Test in Australia against 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen it would look totally different to the teams that I'd use in a Day Test at Sydney or Melbourne. Probably something like:

1. Sami Aslam
2. Salman Butt
3. Babar Azam
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Mohammad Hafeez (for a short, quick innings and some off-spin)
6. Sarfraz Ahmed
7. Aamer Yamin
8. Hasan Ali
9. Yasir Shah
10. Mohammad Amir
11. Mohammad Asif or Rahat Ali

 

[Ellipsism]

We should meet up!

We can fight about the fixers in person.

I've got tickets to Days 1-4 at Sydney.

I've got tickets for just day one and the ODI.

I think our discussion on PP is enough.

 

[jeetu]

 

[Ellipsism]

According to Smith, highest sales outside of an Ashes test at Brisbane.

Expect 50-60,00 on Boxing Day.

 

[Slog]

Some really unprepared comments on this thread so far in terms of Day/Night Pink ball cricket in Australia.

So here is your primer:

1. SCORES ARE MUCH LOWER THAN IN NORMAL TEST CRICKET
- the first two Day/Night Tests in Australia exactly followed the pattern of the 25 First Class Day/Night matches.
- this is because the grass on the pitch is kept to a long - and standardized - length to protect the pink ball.
- the innings scores so far have been:
202 (65.2 overs)
224 (72.1 overs)
208 (62.5 overs)
187-7 (51 overs)
259-9d (76 overs)
383 (121.1 overs)
250 (85.2 overs)
127-3 (40.5 overs)

- in other words, no team has EVER scored 400 in an innings, and only 2 completed innings out of 6 have reached a second new ball.

2. THE PINK BALL NEVER TAKES REVERSE SWING
- This is because the outfield is kept green to protect the ball.

3. IT'S HARDEST TO BAT IN THE FIRST HOUR OF THE LAST SESSION
- the ball starts to swing again and the light is constantly changing.
- in domestic cricket we typically see 4-5 wickets fall in that first hour after dinner.
- the last hour of the last session is still tricky, but not as tricky to bat in.

4. THE GRASS ON THE PITCH MINIMISES SPIN
- Nathan Lyon has got some spin, generally under lights.
- the bowlers don't create dangerous footmarks because the grass holds the pitch together, which is why Pakistan is likely to use all three left-arm quicks even though Australia has an off-spinner.

5. ALMOST ALL THE AUSSIE BATSMEN ARE LEFT-HANDERS
- this is the main reason why Pakistan is contemplating fielding all three left-arm quicks.
- the ball pitching outside off-stump can be given LBW - which helps left-armers bowling to left-handers whereas the ball pitching outside leg-stump cannot (which ruins the effectiveness of Sohail Khan and Imran Khan).

6. THREE OF THE AUSSIE BATSMEN ARE ROOKIES
- Opener Matt Renshaw and Number 5 Peter Handscomb and Number 6 Nic Maddinson.

7. 300 IS A WINNING SCORE

8. YOU HAVE TO SCORE FAST IN DAYLIGHT, THEN DECLARE

Expanding on my declaration comment above..........

It's hard work to bowl people out in daylight, except on the first day.

The grass dries out and neither reverse swing nor spin works. As a bowling team, if you have to bowl in daylight you need to be supremely economical so that the scoreboard doesn't advance before Dinner.

During the Dinner break the humidity starts to revitalize the grass on the pitch so seam movement returns, as does swing in the air.

But it's still conventional swing. And so it works best with a new ball.

It means that the team strategy has to change from that used in a day Test. This Pink Ball Day/Night business in Australia is actually like a hybrid between ODI and Test cricket.

You obviously try not to lose wickets against the new ball, even in daylight. But then as a batting team in daylight you have to press down hard on the accelerator and score as many runs as you can before Dinner, so that you can declare and bowl when bowling is easiest.

Consider two ways of scoring 240 and then bowling:

1. The Pakistan way:
Session 1: 60-3
Session 2: 150-4
Session 3: 240 all out at the close

This is a disaster in Aussie Day/Night conditions. You have scored too slowly in good batting conditions, and then used up the good bowling conditions to crawl your way to a decent total. But now the opposition will get to bat in Daylight tomorrow, and your bowlers will have no assistance.

Option 2: The Aussie Day/Night way
Session 1: 100-3 (first hour 30-2, second hour scoring at 4 per over)
Session 2: 240-7 declared (scoring at 4.5 per over through the session
Session 3: First hour reduce opposition to 30-5, ultimately 60-7 at the close.

There is just no point crawling to a higher total and using up the hardest batting conditions to do so.

When even the Aussies seem hesitant to do this and they have much much more experience in these situations how do you expect a conservative captain like Misbah to take such a bold call which can spectacularly backfire

 

[Ellipsism]

When even the Aussies seem hesitant to do this and they have much much more experience in these situations how do you expect a conservative captain like Misbah to take such a bold call which can spectacularly backfire

It's a figment, merely existent in Junaids mind.

 

[Pantani]

View attachment 70967

Nice photo. I think the trophy needs a name though. Something referencing the shared history and affinity both countries have with pace bowling and leg spin.

 

[Junaids]

Nice photo. I think the trophy needs a name though. Something referencing the shared history and affinity both countries have with pace bowling and leg spin.

How about the Warne-Asif Fair Play Trophy?

 

[Junaids]

When even the Aussies seem hesitant to do this and they have much much more experience in these situations how do you expect a conservative captain like Misbah to take such a bold call which can spectacularly backfire

The problem is, the conservative approach carries a lot more risks. Ask FAF du Plessis, who declared an hour too late, and ended up with the opposition batting in daylight and scoring 383 when the next highest score ever is 259!

Pretending that it's a red ball Test and not optimizing the chance to bowl under lights is really, really risky. I'd only do that if thunderstorms are around - which is fairly likely - because imagine declaring early at 240-7 in a bid to bowl 30 overs under lights, only for the rest of the day to be rained off!

 

[Slog]

How about the Warne-Asif Fair Play Trophy?

You need two equals. Warne doesnt compare

From a cricketing angle this is like a Farhat-Hayden trophy with Farhat being the Warne here

 

[Pantani]

How about the Warne-Asif Fair Play Trophy?

I was thinking something like the Akram-Johnson Cup, commemorating two of the best left arm fast bowlers in modern cricket (Trophy as the suffix has become clichéd, so I went with Cup).

If only Akthar and Lee had better test records, because they would have been perfect.

 

[Slog]

View attachment 70967

Misbahs beard keeps getting thicker....

lol he literally could pass for being Smith's dad's here (aside from ethnicity lol)

 

[Pantani]

Akthar-Lee would have been absolutely perfect but one didn't play enough test cricket to warrant a trophy being named after him, and the other didn't finish with an ATG career record

You can't have Warne because he already gave his name to the Warne-Muralitharan; otherwise Warne-Qadir would have also been a fine choice

Imran is no good because Australia haven't had a world class all rounder since the '50s or something

What does that leave us with? Waqar and McGrath I suppose

 

[Belawal2014]

Pretty hyped up for this series to begin.

 

[Pantani]

Misbahs beard keeps getting thicker....

lol he literally could pass for being Smith's dad's here (aside from ethnicity lol)

Misbah looks a lot like my philosophy professor from last semester, a Greek guy with a full beard who is late 30s/early 40s

 

[JaDed]

Pretty hyped up for this series to begin.

Same here felt similarly when Pak were about to tour England where they did well and now Aus,Kiwi tour and west Indies home tour didn't have the same "hype" or interest imo.

Going to be an exciting series.

 

[jeetu]

Australia delay team announcement as four-pronged pace attack is considered

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ent-as-four-pronged-pace-attack-is-considered

Australia have opted against naming an XI for their day-night Test against Pakistan, with selectors mulling whether to unleash a four-pronged pace attack in Brisbane.

Uncapped swing specialist Chadd Sayers was expected to carry the drinks at the Gabba, as was the case in Australia’s pink-ball clash with South Africa at Adelaide Oval. But Steve Smith revealed in his pre-match press conference that Sayers is in the mix to receive a baggy green on Thursday.

“We want to have another look at the wicket today,” Smith said on Wednesday. “I’m not sure yet, I need to have another look at the wicket to determine how much grass is on the wicket and things like that. Pakistan have a lot of right-hand batters which might come into the equation. We’ll wait and see.”

Smith added he expected Jackson Bird to retain his spot in the side, leaving Sayers locked in a battle with Nathan Lyon for the final berth. Lyon, whose Test record in Brisbane is an impressive 24 wickets at 23.95, regards the Gabba as one of his favourite grounds and relishes the bounce on offer.

The offspinner has taken a wicket every 46 deliveries he has bowled at the venue, a better Gabba strike-rate than Shane Warne, but the heat and humidity in south-east Queensland has selectors pondering whether swing will be a more potent weapon than spin during the next five days.

Lyon was on the cusp of being dropped for the third Test against the Proteas, having endured a lean trot during Australia’s five-Test losing streak but he bounced back with a couple of key wickets during South Africa’s second innings.

“I will leave you guys to write that there are going to be four quicks,” Lyon said earlier in the week. “I am confident of playing, I will put it that way.”

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Wahab and Aamer are sure picks for the gaba wicket. Would take Rahat or Imran over Sohail Khan as playing Sohail and Wahab is too risky with both being so injury prone.

 

[JibranAnsari]

pakistan will have a very hard time taking wickets and scoring runs. A lot of big wins coming for australia.

 

[Belawal2014]

Same here felt similarly when Pak were about to tour England where they did well and now Aus,Kiwi tour and west Indies home tour didn't have the same "hype" or interest imo.

Going to be an exciting series.

Agree with the lack of interest in WI and NZ series.

 

[Suleiman]

4 pace attack from Aus will definitely be more threatening. They probably know our tricks from England where we played conservatively against Woakes and the like before unleashing against Moeen.

Only Asad took on the pacers in his 100 at the Oval, but he has a weakness against the short ball and is a bit mentally shaken atm.

Even though Nathan Lyon in Aus >> Moeen.

 

[Hasan123]

Azhar
Sami
Babar
Younis
Misbah
Asad
Sarfraz
Yasir
Amir
Sohail
Wahab/Rahat

Australia team

Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Handscombe
Maddinson
Wade
Starc
Hazelwood
Bird
Lyon/Sayers

 

[Junaids]

Big news from the Gabba.

The curator Kevin Mitchell, who was up in Cairns to watch Pakistan bowl the young Aussie team out cheaply twice, is cutting the grass on the pitch to a very short level of 2 mm.

It was 6 mm in the Day/Night Test at Adelaide last year and has been set at 4 mm for Day/Night Pink Ball matches by Cricket Australia this year. Until now.

In the first Day/Night round of matches this year, this is what happened in the only Pink Ball match so far this season at the same ground - and note the strategic declarations I keep telling you all about.

NSW 327-7 declared (Smith declared at 78 overs)
QLD 330-6 declared
NSW 367-7 declared
QLD 139 all out

Last year there was one Day/Night match at the Gabba, before nighttime declarations become the fashion.

TAS 300
QLD 376
TAS 233
QLD 158-3

But if the grass is being shaved off, then Yasir Shah is a much bigger factor and there should be much less movement off the seam.

 

[Metron]

An innings defeat coming up for Pakistan:

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Big news from the Gabba.

The curator Kevin Mitchell, who was up in Cairns to watch Pakistan bowl the young Aussie team out cheaply twice, is cutting the grass on the pitch to a very short level of 2 mm.

It was 6 mm in the Day/Night Test at Adelaide last year and has been set at 4 mm for Day/Night Pink Ball matches by Cricket Australia this year. Until now.

In the first Day/Night round of matches this year, this is what happened in the only Pink Ball match so far this season at the same ground - and note the strategic declarations I keep telling you all about.

NSW 327-7 declared (Smith declared at 78 overs)
QLD 330-6 declared
NSW 367-7 declared
QLD 139 all out

Last year there was one Day/Night match at the Gabba, before nighttime declarations become the fashion.

TAS 300
QLD 376
TAS 233
QLD 158-3

But if the grass is being shaved off, then Yasir Shah is a much bigger factor and there should be much less movement off the seam.

Why is every news coming out of the the Gabba helping Pakistan win?

 

[Mamoon]

We are well outside our comfort-zone for the first Test. Expecting a thrashing.

 

[Ellipsism]

We are well outside our comfort-zone for the first Test. Expecting a thrashing.

When have you ever not expected a thrashing?

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

When are the ODI's starting?

 

[Markhor]

Curator has cut the grass on the pitch to 2mm which is significantly less than what we've seen in the Adelaide day-nighters.

Hopefully that'll help our chances of putting on competitive totals.

 

[Junaids]

Curator has cut the grass on the pitch to 2mm which is significantly less than what we've seen in the Adelaide day-nighters.

Hopefully that'll help our chances of putting on competitive totals.

I'd argue the opposite.

I think that Pakistan can only win low scoring matches in Australia: 205 v 200 v 210 v 170.

The less grass, the bigger the scores, the better Australia's chance of victory.

 

[Junaids]

Predictions from Aussie TV tonight:

Allan Border - low scoring Test, no hundreds.
Stuart Clark: Hazlewood to take 5 in an innings and 10 in the match.
Mark Waugh: Test over in 3 days.
Brendon Julian: Mohammad Amir to take a hat-trick.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Predictions from Aussie TV tonight:

Allan Border - low scoring Test, no hundreds.
Stuart Clark: Hazlewood to take 5 in an innings and 10 in the match.
Mark Waugh: Test over in 3 days.
Brendon Julian: Mohammad Amir to take a hat-trick.

And your prediction ?

 

[Slog]

Pak lineup?

For me

Sami
Azhar
Babar
YK
Misbah
Shafiq
Sarfaraz
Yasir
Sohail
Amir
Rahat

 

[Junaids]

And your prediction ?

I have no idea, to be frank.

Two pretty poor teams. Australia has lost 5 of its last 6 Tests, while Pakistan has lost 4 away Tests out of 6 this year.

Home advantage should help Australia, but both teams have some shocking batsmen.

 

[Hamza_]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] Bhai Rahat, Sohail or Imran?