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Pakistan v England | 2nd Test | Multan | October 15-19 | Pre-Match Discussion

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Nikhil_cric said:
Except Hasnain , none of those guys have even half a chance of being a Test class seamer.
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Maybe you are not aware of who these bowlers are and their attributes.

Ihsanullah , Zeeshan zameer are big tall lads with pace and bounce.

Kashif Ali generates good pace and bounce and Was jr has good pace with reverse swinging yorkers.

They can be excellent Test match bowlers.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
Maybe you are not aware of who these bowlers are and their attributes.

Ihsanullah , Zeeshan zameer are big tall lads with pace and bounce.

Kashif Ali generates good pace and bounce and Was jr has good pace with reverse swinging yorkers.

They can be excellent Test match bowlers.
Click to expand...
Ihsanullah and Kashif Ali definitely won't make it as Test bowlers. Not as long term prospects anyway.

I haven't seen Zameer, you're right about that.
 
mb3407 said:
In your entire history you guys only had 3 fast bowlers with over 250 test wickets. You speak as if you had 25. In the last 20 years we have been clearly better
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I like how you've switched the convo to wickets from pace. :ROFLMAO:

Remember the original posters comment.:bumble2
 
It's fascinating to think in the last few years not a single quality pacer or spinner from domestics has come through.

We are literally producing trundlers and darters. Some of these players can't even run properly, they have awkward biomechanics. Serial age fudgers. IQ less than 90.

Didn't anyone think the day will come when we are unable to field a competent test bowling attack?

Where are they sourcing players for domestics? Why aren't the capable and competent not coming through?
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
We ll see once they return from injury and have played Test matches.

Ali Raza is another up and coming fast bowler.
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Similar things were said about everyone from Aamir to Dahani. Naseem and Shaheen were your brightest prospects since then.

If you couldn't develop them then there's no chance of these guys developing
 
RidiculousMan said:
To be honest with you. If the pitch has assistant for spinners. Chacha Noman and Sajid Don will eat England alive with at least 7 wickets each for them in the game.
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All hail Nomi Badsha and Sajid Don.
 
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Hellion said:
Similar things were said about everyone from Aamir to Dahani. Naseem and Shaheen were your brightest prospects since then.

If you couldn't develop them then there's no chance of these guys developing
Click to expand...
Amir is a proven match winner, Dahani has been injured as hasn't played enough and Shaheen and Naseem have won matches in the past but injuries etc are still causing problems.

That has no bearing on these newbies.
 
Just read on Cric info - the same pitch is going to be used. Really? and reports coming in PCB have asked to prepare a spin heavy wicket - how are they goig to achieve this in 3-4 days?
as a neutral i can't avoid thinking back to pak vs bd-1st test in Rwlpindi where you packed 4 quicks, banking on winning the toss, bowlin first knocking the oppo over thinking the wicket was a quick WACA/kingston/Joberg or swing/seam heavy like headingley/gabba/Wellington etc...it seems your think tank is banking on winning the toss this time, bat first bat big and hope it will spin miles onthe last few days.
That said Eng spinners are not exactly warne/murli/ash - and they will be playig stokes and probaby rehan for bashir. But interesting - to play on the same track inside a week's time....
lot of sub plots lining up.....match should be entertaining
 
mb3407 said:
He said something about land of pacers. So are Shaheen, Naseem not pacers? Yes I am new so you may help me understand who are "pacers"?
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You sound confused.

Original posters comments were Land of pacers.

To which I pointed out the indian history of medium pace.

Then you thought you would be smart by trying help by switching the convo to number of wickets taken by pace bowlers.

You have confused yourself by bringing in Shaheen and Naseem.

Subject ended , confusion cleared I hope.
 
CrIc_Mystique said:
Just read on Cric info - the same pitch is going to be used. Really? and reports coming in PCB have asked to prepare a spin heavy wicket - how are they goig to achieve this in 3-4 days?
as a neutral i can't avoid thinking back to pak vs bd-1st test in Rwlpindi where you packed 4 quicks, banking on winning the toss, bowlin first knocking the oppo over thinking the wicket was a quick WACA/kingston/Joberg or swing/seam heavy like headingley/gabba/Wellington etc...it seems your think tank is banking on winning the toss this time, bat first bat big and hope it will spin miles onthe last few days.
That said Eng spinners are not exactly warne/murli/ash - and they will be playig stokes and probaby rehan for bashir. But interesting - to play on the same track inside a week's time....
lot of sub plots lining up.....match should be entertaining
Click to expand...
True...at the very least they've managed to pique everyone's interest. This must the first time in Pakistan's history that they're going into a test without a single frontline pacer. Everyone will be curious if this is going to end in a disaster or be some kind of weird masterstroke.

Pity we can't watch this in India or I'd be tuning in for a session or so on day one just out of morbid curiosity.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
You guys are the last people to have a pop at us about pace when your history is laced with medium pacers.

Ihsanulllah , Wasim jr , Zeeshan zameer , Hasnain, Kashif Ali etc are still there but injuries and mis management are causing issues.
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None of your so called fast bowler get in indian team . :kp


This is really embarassing moments for Pakistan cricket .
 
Surely Faisal Akram at least deserved to be announced as a squad member he's performing quite well in the ongoing List A competition.

But Typical PCB rather than giving youngsters a chance they have opted for 3 chacha's whose real ages are 40+🤣
 
cricinbfo : If a leopard can't change its spots, then it's hard to see how Multan's strip of rolled mud can be transformed into a spinner's paradise, just a week after conceding the fourth-highest total ever made in Test cricket. Nevertheless, it is a used surface - which is common enough in white-ball cricket but virtually unheard of in Tests - and it ought to offer more for the bowlers, though quite how much more remains to be seen. Pace and bounce are likely to be short supply once the moisture in the surface has steamed away. Thereafter, it's a question of what happens to those notable cracks from the first Test.
------------------
I too suspect another dead track is on offer ....
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
We ll see once they return from injury and have played Test matches.

Ali Raza is another up and coming fast bowler.
Click to expand...
All are useless in test matches ,they are and they will be 4 over bowlers that's their limit, if u push these fragile things to bowl in test matches then again u need to put post claiming after injury they again comeback as wasims and waqur
 
Rana said:
This will be on Shan and Gillespie. They want to go with 3 spinners. Selectors only did what’s right and gave them to options to pick a proper combination.
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No.. PCB has announced..that selection commitee…has decided the playing 11.. so its not Shan and Gillespie.
Selection commitee never used to have say in playing 11s, just squad announcement… but now PCB posted picture of all members and said selection commitee..decided playing 11…

So its on them only.. infact all decisions of this test, have been made by selection commitee, and captain and coach have only been informed..
 
The first test, listening to TMS on BBC, the commentators kept repeating during the Root-Brook innings that, these guys would hope they can take this pitch with them wherever they bat.

PCB: 'Hold my chai!'
 
Farah Sohail said:
No.. PCB has announced..that selection commitee…has decided the playing 11.. so its not Shan and Gillespie.
Selection commitee never used to have say in playing 11s, just squad announcement… but now PCB posted picture of all members and said selection commitee..decided playing 11…

So its on them only.. infact all decisions of this test, have been made by selection commitee, and captain and coach have only been informed..
Click to expand...
Oh bibi the selection committee gave them all the tools they deem fit for availability, and removed those who shouldn’t be there.

That’s why SC removed Babar otherwise Shan and Gillespie would just play him and not bench him.

The squad is given by SC and then the Coach/Captain picks the XI. Maybe you are new to the way cricket works?
 
Rana said:
Oh bibi the selection committee gave them all the tools they deem fit for availability, and removed those who shouldn’t be there.

That’s why SC removed Babar otherwise Shan and Gillespie would just play him and not bench him.

The squad is given by SC and then the Coach/Captain picks the XI. Maybe you are new to the way cricket works?
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Yes… that is what I said.. it has always been the case..that squad is given by selection commitee…and playing 11 is decided by the captain and coach..

But here, for the first time..its different.. even playing 11 is also decided by selection commitee…
Go and check PCB,s post.. they have clearly mentioned that selection commitee has finalised playing 11, along with picture of all…
 
HARKS said:
All are useless in test matches ,they are and they will be 4 over bowlers that's their limit, if u push these fragile things to bowl in test matches then again u need to put post claiming after injury they again comeback as wasims and waqur
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Considering they haven't played yet you must of looked into your crystal ball.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
We ll see once they return from injury and have played Test matches.

Ali Raza is another up and coming fast bowler.
Click to expand...
Ihsanullah is done. He is not 22.. He is 30 plus.. and his small career has been damaged by PCB medical team.
I see Ali Raza being hyped up to the moon these days.. He ain't making it as well. He will bowl few faster ones.. get hyped to the moon.. and then play T20 leagues around the World. The system of Pakistan will not let him develop.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
Ihsanullah is done. He is not 22.. He is 30 plus.. and his small career has been damaged by PCB medical team.
I see Ali Raza being hyped up to the moon these days.. He ain't making it as well. He will bowl few faster ones.. get hyped to the moon.. and then play T20 leagues around the World. The system of Pakistan will not let him develop.
Click to expand...
This crystal ball thing is catching.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
They should have opted for the left arm spin of Mir hamza
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How dare you say this, it is the land of super fast bowlers. They bowl 4 overs of fast bowling and run away, can never win matches even against 'C' teams. Runs, wickets and wins dont matter, just bowl fast for 4 overs and you are done.

But again they are a land of super fast bowlers!
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
This crystal ball thing is catching.
Click to expand...
yup. No system in Pakistan.. and PCB is corrupt to the core and has no idea of player development. They ruined Shaheen, Ihsanullah and even Naseem now, who was ran into ground by playing meaningless matches against Nepal and Zimbabwe.
It's just common sense. The way PCB is operating, Ali Raza will be hyped up as next 17 year old Pace sensation, have some limited success against lesser teams.. get T20 Contracts around the world and by 25 he will be washed up has been trundling on Pakistani roads. Please tell me what is your source of optimism in this environment ?
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
yup. No system in Pakistan.. and PCB is corrupt to the core and has no idea of player development. They ruined Shaheen, Ihsanullah and even Naseem now, who was ran into ground by playing meaningless matches against Nepal and Zimbabwe.
It's just common sense. The way PCB is operating, Ali Raza will be hyped up as next 17 year old Pace sensation, have some limited success against lesser teams.. get T20 Contracts around the world and by 25 he will be washed up has been trundling on Pakistani roads. Please tell me what is your source of optimism in this environment ?
Click to expand...
I agree with what you've stated above.

Despite all the odds something has always come up eventually.

Dizzy has talked a lot about managing fast bowlers workloads lets see if this is actually going to come to fruition in the future.
 
All good preparing spinning tracks but what is the solution when you can't play spin yourselves?
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
I agree with what you've stated above.

Despite all the odds something has always come up eventually.

Dizzy has talked a lot about managing fast bowlers workloads lets see if this is actually going to come to fruition in the future.
Click to expand...
In the era of modern systems, advanced analytics, and more professionalism, "Something always comes up" will no longer work.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
Ihsanullah is done. He is not 22.. He is 30 plus.. and his small career has been damaged by PCB medical team.
I see Ali Raza being hyped up to the moon these days.. He ain't making it as well. He will bowl few faster ones.. get hyped to the moon.. and then play T20 leagues around the World. The system of Pakistan will not let him develop.
Click to expand...
30. Lmao. I mean 'itni lambi bhi nahi karo ke patang ghayab ho jaye'.
 
RidiculousMan said:
30. Lmao. I mean 'itni lambi bhi nahi karo ke patang ghayab ho jaye'.
Click to expand...
lol. That applies to Pakistani Cricketers ages. Ihsanullah paraded as 22 year old.. Naseem as 16 youngsta beauty. Always has 5-8 years to these ages easily, especially if these guys are coming from KPK.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
In the era of modern systems, advanced analytics, and more professionalism, "Something always comes up" will no longer work.
Click to expand...
As good as all those analytics etc are.

You still need the physical tools and attributes to take advantage which is where the lads I mentioned and others come in.

The corrupt people / system is something we have always had to deal with.

Dizzy, Gary and the rest have to make the best out of a bad situation..
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
As good as all those analytics etc are.

You still need the physical tools and attributes to take advantage which is where the lads I mentioned and others come in.

The corrupt people / system is something we have always had to deal with.

Dizzy, Gary and the rest have to make the best out of a bad situation..
Click to expand...
what physical tools. None of these guys are fit enough to last a day of Test Cricket and bowl 15-20 overs.. let alone come next day and do it over again. The fitness regime, strength and conditioning, nutrition, recovery, running technique etc all have become so much better and advanced. Ali Raza and others will have no clue and no support about all this and by the time he realizes all this, it will be too late.
 
Noman Ali has not played any red ball cricket since Oct 2023.
Sajid Khan and Zahid Mahmood not played red ball cricket since Jan 2024.

Are the above statements true? Anyway to check them online? :rolleyes:
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
what physical tools. None of these guys are fit enough to last a day of Test Cricket and bowl 15-20 overs.. let alone come next day and do it over again. The fitness regime, strength and conditioning, nutrition, recovery, running technique etc all have become so much better and advanced. Ali Raza and others will have no clue and no support about all this and by the time he realizes all this, it will be too late.
Click to expand...
That is what the NCA and the coaches are there for.

All the things you mentioned above Players have access to through leagues like the PSL etc.

Through social media etc there is a lot more awareness from players now than in the past.

They can hire out personal trainers.

The main reason why these players want to bowl 4 overs is the amount of money on offer in leagues , Tournaments etc.

The likes of Aus and Eng pay 4 day cricketers well which is why the interest peaks in the longer format.
 
Have no clue how decent , not using the word ''Good'' these 3 spinners selected are , Jamal is a honest trier but Agha as 5th bowling option sucks . If this pitch does not act up by day 3 , expect a hard fought draw if not 2-0 !!!
 
Human786 said:
Have no clue how decent , not using the word ''Good'' these 3 spinners selected are , Jamal is a honest trier but Agha as 5th bowling option sucks . If this pitch does not act up by day 3 , expect a hard fought draw if not 2-0 !!!
Click to expand...
It may not be as placid as it was in the first test given that this is a used pitch. It might be good for batting. But guys like Leach will be in business much sooner in this test than the last Test.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Except Hasnain , none of those guys have even half a chance of being a Test class seamer.
Click to expand...
Hasnain averages close to 50 in tests and has bang average record in internationals. He has only played 7 FC matches, 114 T20s and he is already 24 years old in Pak years.. There is no way he is wants to play tests or even FC for that matter
 
SportsWarrior said:
Hasnain averages close to 50 in tests and has bang average record in internationals. He has only played 7 FC matches, 114 T20s and he is already 24 years old in Pak years.. There is no way he is wants to play tests or even FC for that matter
Click to expand...
Hasnain has shown the desire to work on his bowling and even said he wants to play Test.

Potentially , he is the only one I see with both the talent and desire for it. Also he's not hopelessly overaged like some others.
 
Farah Sohail said:
Yes… that is what I said.. it has always been the case..that squad is given by selection commitee…and playing 11 is decided by the captain and coach..

But here, for the first time..its different.. even playing 11 is also decided by selection commitee…
Go and check PCB,s post.. they have clearly mentioned that selection commitee has finalised playing 11, along with picture of all…
Click to expand...
The PCB’s press release / post is referring to the 16 player “squad” not the playing 11. The selectors have announced the overall squad which is their job, the playing 11 is decided by captain / coach.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
2nd Test lineup for PAK has been announced

Abdullah
Saim
Shan
Kamran
Saud
Rizwan
Agha
Aamer
Zahid
Sajid
Noman

So PAK are playing only 1 seamer and 3 spinners . Interesting.
Click to expand...
LoL, from four pacers to 3 spinners. Aamer Jamal is Faheem Ashraf 2.0. Saim is more white ball player than a test player (If you want to give a new player a chance give it to Huraira) . Why Saim and Why Not Fakhar? PCB = Pak Circus Board
 
The team selection is comical. Apart from Sajid Khan and Noman Ali, none of the other bowlers deserve a place in the squad. I don’t understand why they’re persisting with Saim Ayub when Shan Masood is already in the playing XI. Shan Masood is an opener and shouldn’t be taking up a middle-order slot. Babar Azam should not have been dropped; Kamran Ghulam should have replaced Saim Ayub, and Shan Masood should have opened with either Sahibzada Farhan or Imam. Abdullah Shafique also deserves to be dropped. I don’t know why Aamer Jamal is in the playing XI. Selecting Aamer Jamal as a specialist fast bowler is a joke and an insult to domestic cricket. Why not give Sadaf Hussain his long-awaited debut instead of sticking with a mediocre option like Aamer Jamal? The selection committee seems oblivious to stats; they need to respect domestic records and experience. No wonder Pakistan cricket is struggling.
 
Mercurial said:
The team selection is comical. Apart from Sajid Khan and Noman Ali, none of the other bowlers deserve a place in the squad. I don’t understand why they’re persisting with Saim Ayub when Shan Masood is already in the playing XI. Shan Masood is an opener and shouldn’t be taking up a middle-order slot. Babar Azam should not have been dropped; Kamran Ghulam should have replaced Saim Ayub, and Shan Masood should have opened with either Sahibzada Farhan or Imam. Abdullah Shafique also deserves to be dropped. I don’t know why Aamer Jamal is in the playing XI. Selecting Aamer Jamal as a specialist fast bowler is a joke and an insult to domestic cricket. Why not give Sadaf Hussain his long-awaited debut instead of sticking with a mediocre option like Aamer Jamal? The selection committee seems oblivious to stats; they need to respect domestic records and experience. No wonder Pakistan cricket is struggling.
Click to expand...
Sadaf Hussain played his last FC match 4 years ago
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Sadaf Hussain played his last FC match 4 years ago
Click to expand...
I know. I mean, why not give Sadaf Hussain his long-awaited debut instead of picking Aamer Jamal as a specialist fast bowler? Selecting Aamer Jamal as the only fast bowler in a Test match playing XI feels like mocking and disrespecting domestic cricket.
 
Mercurial said:
The team selection is comical. Apart from Sajid Khan and Noman Ali, none of the other bowlers deserve a place in the squad. I don’t understand why they’re persisting with Saim Ayub when Shan Masood is already in the playing XI. Shan Masood is an opener and shouldn’t be taking up a middle-order slot. Babar Azam should not have been dropped; Kamran Ghulam should have replaced Saim Ayub, and Shan Masood should have opened with either Sahibzada Farhan or Imam. Abdullah Shafique also deserves to be dropped. I don’t know why Aamer Jamal is in the playing XI. Selecting Aamer Jamal as a specialist fast bowler is a joke and an insult to domestic cricket. Why not give Sadaf Hussain his long-awaited debut instead of sticking with a mediocre option like Aamer Jamal? The selection committee seems oblivious to stats; they need to respect domestic records and experience. No wonder Pakistan cricket is struggling.
Click to expand...
Neither Sajid or Nouman deserve to be in the line up.

Its a horses for courses selection.

I would of gone for Mehran in Nouman s place.

ABD scored a 100 in the first test so on what basis should he be dropped?

Saim was unlucky to get a nick down the leg side in the first innings but he will come good and offers an option with the ball.

If he was left out then Fakhar should be the automatic choice.

Aamir jamal has been excellent in his Test career so far.

Sadaf played years ago.

No logic to your post.
 
offstump said:
The PCB’s press release / post is referring to the 16 player “squad” not the playing 11. The selectors have announced the overall squad which is their job, the playing 11 is decided by captain / coach.
Click to expand...

No.. I am talking about the PCB post on twitter…where they announced playing 11..PCB has clearly said while announcing playing 11, that selection committeehas finalised playing 11

And now, there’s article on it as well..which says that Captan and coach no longer have final say in even selection of playing 11… and their powers have been curtailed by new selection committee.. captan and coach wee consulted but selection comittee has the final say in even announcing playing 11

This is the sort of joke, PCB now is…
 
Be scared England... be very very scared we are coming after u!

Kx2mp0f.jpeg
 
Farah Sohail said:
No.. I am talking about the PCB post on twitter…where they announced playing 11..PCB has clearly said while announcing playing 11, that selection committeehas finalised playing 11

And now, there’s article on it as well..which says that Captan and coach no longer have final say in even selection of playing 11… and their powers have been curtailed by new selection committee.. captan and coach wee consulted but selection comittee has the final say in even announcing playing 11

This is the sort of joke, PCB now is…
Click to expand...
Woh din duur nahin when PCB will directly decide on bowling changes and field placements during a game.
 
Interesting playing XI, interesting pitch.

PCB, you have my attention.
 
See get rid of one comical spinner harry Potter

And replace with another comical genuis sajid khan kojak.

And to rub further salt bring in a 50yr old chacha in noman.

Whilst zafar gohar doesn't even get a look in whose played solid country cricket for some time.
 
Pakistan cricket going on Katcha route ,lmao they dropped all the so called phaast bowlers as if Rashid Khan was waiting in wings.

Seriously they think with Nauman Sajid and Zahid they can take 20 wickets at a RPO < 3.5
 
As per stokes he is playign only because they use the same pitch

Ben Stokes reveals how Pakistan decision made his return to England 'easier' as captain admits he can only play as an all-rounder for second Test​


Ben Stokes had admitted his only way back into England’s team was as an all-rounder – and said Pakistan’s decision to play Tuesday’s second Test on the pitch used for the first eased his inclusion.

Stokes was planning to use himself as third seamer after replacing Chris Woakes, with Matthew Potts coming in for Gus Atkinson, finally rested after seven Tests in a row.

But on a surface that will effectively be into its sixth day from the start, much could rest on the shoulders of England’s two frontline spinners, Jack Leach and Shoaib Bashir, plus the off-breaks of Joe Root.

And with Pakistan giving themselves as many as seven spin options – including specialists Noman Ali, Sajid Khan and Zahid Mehmood – to accompany a lone seam-bowling all-rounder in Aamir Jamal, there was little doubt what kind of surface to expect.

Had groundsman Tony Hemming produced a flat pitch to rival the one on which England raced to 823 for seven last week, Stokes’s route into the team following his recuperation from hamstring trouble would have been less straightforward, since the seamers would have had to carry their share of the load.

Instead, Pakistan’s desperation to produce a surface they believe can help set up a decider in Rawalpindi has paved the way for Stokes to play his first Test since the end of the West Indies series in July.


‘To be honest, playing on a used wicket made the decision a little bit easier,’ he said. ‘But you like to think that this is going to spin a bit more.

‘We’ve got two workhorses in the team in Carsey and Pottsy who just keep going and going. But I’m available to bowl and when I sense the time is right for me to come on and make an impact there won’t be any doubts in my mind.’

Asked whether he had considered playing as a specialist batsman, he replied: ‘Those were the sort of thoughts that went through my head at home before we came out. I’d written a few teams down with me not bowling and it just didn’t work.’


If anything, the more disconcerted team on the eve of the Test appeared to be Pakistan, with coach Jason Gillespie and captain Shan Masood engaged in a long and animated discussion with the new selection panel out in the middle.

And while previous England sides might have moaned about the unusual step of playing successive Tests on the same pitch, Stokes’s team are just getting on with it.

‘If we went 1-0 down at home, we would probably be going to our groundsman saying, can we have a bit more of this, a bit more of that, to use our home advantage in our favour?’ he said.

‘If you look at the first Test, another wicket like that maybe gives us more of an advantage because of the way we take the game on. A used pitch brings both teams into the game a lot more. But, yeah, I’ve never seen a used pitch before in back-to-back games.’

Pakistan’s bowling coach Azhar Mahmood was unapologetic about the strategy.

‘Look, we have to take 20 wickets,’ he said. ‘We thought about how we can do that against England. To use an already used pitch, the idea is to get 20 wickets.’

Meanwhile, Carse, Potts and Stokes will constitute an all-Durham seam attack, with a fourth – Mark Wood – missing this tour through injury.

‘I’m not slowly eking all of the Durham team in, don’t worry about that,’ said Stokes. ‘It’s going to be a proud moment for the club. Durham have a great record of producing England cricketers, in particular fast bowlers.’
 
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