Babar Azam - Criticism warranted?

[barah_admi]

I personally do not think so, and anyone who watches the game without certain biases would do so too.

Just a little breakdown:


Considering everyone here loves to mention Kohli all the time, looking at his first 2 years as a t20 cricketer (same time period as Babar), he was averaging barely 23 and striking at 118, as opposed to Azam's almost 50 and 123.

Even KOhli's current sr of 137 is not the 150s and 160s the posters on here seem to thikn every top t20 batsman goes at.

Looking at international T20s as a whole, of those with the top 10 SRs in the history of the game, only 2 have averages over 40 and one of them has played less games than Babar. The top batsmen of today (Kohli, Root, Williamson) and the top batsmen of a slightly different era (Amla, AB) don't even feature in the top 20.

Babars SR is only marginally worse than Root and Dhawan and better than Smith, Taylor, Shakib and Williamson.

So Pakistan must have 5 or 6 absolute world beaters with the bat for Babar not to be included. Could you all name them?

A more in depth look at his career so far will come throughout the thread.

 

[SaadAliG]

I see his batting with my eyes. Through these numbers away as they don't tell you how most of his runs have contributed negatively to the cause of his teams as they were made at a much lower rate than what was required at the time.
What frustrated us yesterday was not his lack of power hitting but his lack of effort. He played it safe most of the times and on the ground. It would've been better for him to give his wicket away. He didn't try to hit even full tosses for six where the boundaries were 50 meters.

 

[j_kazmi]

I think some of it is warranted but a lot of it is going overboard.

He didn’t play that bad last night, he could’ve showed more intent I think. But the most important thing is that this can be a learning experience for Babar.

Matches like these will help our youngsters learn how to chase big totals in one day and t20 cricket.

 

[backfootpunch]

I see his batting with my eyes. Through these numbers away as they don't tell you how most of his runs have contributed negatively to the cause of his teams as they were made at a much lower rate than what was required at the time.
What frustrated us yesterday was not his lack of power hitting but his lack of effort. He played it safe most of the times and on the ground. It would've been better for him to give his wicket away. He didn't try to hit even full tosses for six where the boundaries were 50 meters.

This part sums it up perfectly.

 

[Smudger]

Baber is a vey good batsman no doubt but last night he was playing the ball along the ground when rr was 14 .
Kohli has won india the match by scoring 38 in 2 oversin a must win match.
Root scored 83 off42 chasing 230 in a must win.
Smith too is capable of these exploits but he hasnt played a lot of t20 as a batter (just 9). We saw his hitting ability against bumrah and malinga in ipl final . He has on numerous times finished games when rr was above 10.
Williamson played brilliantly last ipl season .

 

[Rayyman]

Baber is a vey good batsman no doubt but last night he was playing the ball along the ground when rr was 14 .
Kohli has won india the match by scoring 38 in 2 oversin a must win match.
Root scored 83 off42 chasing 230 in a must win.
Smith too is capable of these exploits but he hasnt played a lot of t20 as a batter (just 9). We saw his hitting ability against bumrah and malinga in ipl final . He has on numerous times finished games when rr was above 10.
Williamson played brilliantly last ipl season .

Jeez Babar should not be compared to them. He is still young while these guys are entering their primes as batsmen.

 

[Madplayer]

I think A more valid question will be :

What should people expect from Babar Azam?

 

[Smudger]

Jeez Babar should not be compared to them. He is still young while these guys are entering their primes as batsmen.

Yeah i completely agree . I think he is superior to williamson in t20s . Good thing is he hasnt shown any signs of choking

 

[Send1983]

Jeez Babar should not be compared to them. He is still young while these guys are entering their primes as batsmen.

Stop giving age excuse dude. He is not a teenager.

 

[sshakir411]

He's not learning fast enough. If he wants to be in the top 5 batsman going around he'll need to wake up, soon. He has the talent and that's why the expectations are greater. It's good to score regardless the team wins or not...but those performances are never remembered nor are glorified. If he really wants to be a star in world cricket and not just in Pakistan, he'll need to bat out of his skin which he isn't doing atm.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think A more valid question will be :

What should people expect from Babar Azam?

The same as previously. He's technically Pakistan's most correct batsman, and will continue to deliver plenty of runs for the rest of his career. He's not a big power hitter though, and when you require 150%+ S/R, he's not the man. He also has a selfish streak so will often preserve his wicket when the team requires quick runs in limited over games. Other than that though, best Pakistani batsman easily.

 

[Wonderwoman]

Babar Azam will end with records very similar to passive accumulators like Chanderpauletc. nothing more.
Decent stats but zero impact in game.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

The criticism is stupid but it's good for him. It will continue to push him.

 

[WengerOut]

The problem is people want him to be someone else which he is not. There is place for an accumulator in a cricket team. They are as essential as attacking flair players. They are the glue which holds the batting lineup together. They are the insurance that drives the more attacking players to play freely.

Having said that , Babar should try to rotate the strike as frequently as possible without getting stuck. That is the only problem temperamentally for him. That was the problem due to which he sucked up all the momentum built by Sharjeel in that Aus chase.

 

[Zain]

I would say Babar's criticism is not warranted, however i would suggest he bulks up a bit so he can hit a few more sixes, often in the international arena he has been caught out in the deep connecting well but just not possessing enough power, so i would say going forwards in his development maybe get a bit more toned and muscle (not becoming a body builder, as we still need him to be agile and athletic in the field) up just to enable him to go for the bigger shots with more ease as i believe he can execute well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The problem is people want him to be someone else which he is not. There is place for an accumulator in a cricket team. They are as essential as attacking flair players. They are the glue which holds the batting lineup together. They are the insurance that drives the more attacking players to play freely.

Having said that , Babar should try to rotate the strike as frequently as possible without getting stuck. That is the only problem temperamentally for him. That was the problem due to which he sucked up all the momentum built by Sharjeel in that Aus chase.

Exactly. We have to appreciate him for what he is and use him accordingly. Every side needs one steady player, you could easily accommodate him in that role, and make sure there are plenty of power hitters who can play around him.

 

[Rayyman]

Before he used to struggle to go at 95 SR, now he is going at 115 easily. He is improving.

 

[barah_admi]

The same as previously. He's technically Pakistan's most correct batsman, and will continue to deliver plenty of runs for the rest of his career. He's not a big power hitter though, and when you require 150%+ S/R, he's not the man. He also has a selfish streak so will often preserve his wicket when the team requires quick runs in limited over games. Other than that though, best Pakistani batsman easily.

The finest T20 batsmen have never had that SR, or rather, the most consistent. Maxwell strikes it at 160 but if push comes to shove, who would someone pick in a world XI, him or AB?

Same goes for someone like Babar, who is doing a terrific job holding his batting side up, time and time again.

The criticism is stupid but it's good for him. It will continue to push him.

Hope it does!

The problem is people want him to be someone else which he is not. There is place for an accumulator in a cricket team. They are as essential as attacking flair players. They are the glue which holds the batting lineup together. They are the insurance that drives the more attacking players to play freely.

Having said that , Babar should try to rotate the strike as frequently as possible without getting stuck. That is the only problem temperamentally for him. That was the problem due to which he sucked up all the momentum built by Sharjeel in that Aus chase.

If there is one thing you can't criticise him for, it's rotating the strike. He's done it well over the last 12 months or so, if not longer. It hasn't been that useful in the PSL because of how small the grounds were in the UAE, where it was either a boundary or a single.

Before he used to struggle to go at 95 SR, now he is going at 115 easily. He is improving.

His sr in t20s is 123.

 

[barah_admi]

Looking at ODI records of Babar Azam v the current "Fab Four" at similar stages and ages in their careers. So roughly the first 3 years of their international ODI careers.

Averages -
Babar 51.11
Kohli 43.93
Root 39.12
Williamson 36.20
Smith 21.11

SR -
Babar 84.26
Smith 86.75
Root 82.15
Kohli 81.92
Williamson 77.77

Babar also end up topping the centuries charts, with fewer matches than Kohli (59) and Williamson (45).

At this point, Kohli did not hold a single century outside Asia, whereas Babar holds 2, one of which came against a strong Australia, reigning world champions side.

Not too shabby for a "tuk tuk" and a "selfish player" who "shouldn't be in the Pakistan side".

 

[Hasan123]

Our fans expect him to score in every game . As soon as he fails there are threads about his place in the team.

He is a good batsmen. We must be patient with him. He can average 45 in ODIs and tests which is very good for our standards.

 

[MRSN]

I think A more valid question will be :

What should people expect from Babar Azam?

Win the game for his team and not play for his selfish scores. Last night he should have sacrificed his wicket if it was out of his reach. Pathetic knock
He kept finding the fielders with his down the ground powerless shots and destroyed any chance KK had for a win.

 

[barah_admi]

Win the game for his team and not play for his selfish scores. Last night he should have sacrificed his wicket if it was out of his reach. Pathetic knock
He kept finding the fielders with his down the ground powerless shots and destroyed any chance KK had for a win.

6 of his 7 centuries have come in a match winning effort, as have 2 of his 50s. He strikes at 86 when Pak win, averages 85 in those 19 wins. His runs = Pak win, it's pretty simple.

 

[ManFan]

6 of his 7 centuries have come in a match winning effort, as have 2 of his 50s. He strikes at 86 when Pak win, averages 85 in those 19 wins. His runs = Pak win, it's pretty simple.

Bro, why are you bringing facts into the discussion?

 

[Godhelpma]

Babar Azam will end with records very similar to passive accumulators like Chanderpauletc. nothing more.
Decent stats but zero impact in game.

Nope you are wrong . He will be a much better batsman than chanderpaul.

 

[Smudger]

Looking at ODI records of Babar Azam v the current "Fab Four" at similar stages and ages in their careers. So roughly the first 3 years of their international ODI careers.

Averages -
Babar 51.11
Kohli 43.93
Root 39.12
Williamson 36.20
Smith 21.11

SR -
Babar 84.26
Smith 86.75
Root 82.15
Kohli 81.92
Williamson 77.77

Babar also end up topping the centuries charts, with fewer matches than Kohli (59) and Williamson (45).

At this point, Kohli did not hold a single century outside Asia, whereas Babar holds 2, one of which came against a strong Australia, reigning world champions side.

Not too shabby for a "tuk tuk" and a "selfish player" who "shouldn't be in the Pakistan side".

But all of this doesnt matter. Kohli scored a match winning triple ton down under when he was 10 and he smokes sixes bigger than Gayle.

 

[Smudger]

Looking at ODI records of Babar Azam v the current "Fab Four" at similar stages and ages in their careers. So roughly the first 3 years of their international ODI careers.

Averages -
Babar 51.11
Kohli 43.93
Root 39.12
Williamson 36.20
Smith 21.11

SR -
Babar 84.26
Smith 86.75
Root 82.15
Kohli 81.92
Williamson 77.77

Babar also end up topping the centuries charts, with fewer matches than Kohli (59) and Williamson (45).

At this point, Kohli did not hold a single century outside Asia, whereas Babar holds 2, one of which came against a strong Australia, reigning world champions side.

Not too shabby for a "tuk tuk" and a "selfish player" who "shouldn't be in the Pakistan side".

But all of this doesnt matter. Kohli scored a match winning triple ton down under when he was 10 and he smokes bigger sixes than gayle

 

[waleed88]

I think some of it is warranted but a lot of it is going overboard.

He didn’t play that bad last night, he could’ve showed more intent I think. But the most important thing is that this can be a learning experience for Babar.

Matches like these will help our youngsters learn how to chase big totals in one day and t20 cricket.

Tell that to the Karachi fans who have seen this guy for 3 seasons every game to see this guy bat everytime and been invested in for so long but been a failure for so long, last season he had a strike rate of 115 in the PSL.

 

[waleed88]

All personal milestones are great, coming at the expense of the team and the match is a completely different story

 

[waleed88]

6 of his 7 centuries have come in a match winning effort, as have 2 of his 50s. He strikes at 86 when Pak win, averages 85 in those 19 wins. His runs = Pak win, it's pretty simple.

How many have those come chasing a total? A big total?

Half the games where Pakistan loses are chasing. Where is Babar during that phase?

 

[barah_admi]

But all of this doesnt matter. Kohli scored a match winning triple ton down under when he was 10 and he smokes bigger sixes than gayle

hahahaha

How many have those come chasing a total? A big total?

Half the games where Pakistan loses are chasing. Where is Babar during that phase?

You can't keep chasing the goalposts and by you, I mean the Babar haters in general. First it's "he is too selfish" then it's "he can't chase".

Yet, 11 of the 19 wins he has been involved in have been chases, where he averages 58, which is no mean feat. He'd also have bigger scores if those chases didn't come against relatively small totals thanks to Pak's often very good recent bowling.

 

[barah_admi]

Bro, why are you bringing facts into the discussion?

Opps sorry, I'll go back to living in nightmare land where Babar is nothing more than a scrub and every t20 batsman scores at 160

 

[Deewana]

some of the posters here a laugh worthy, was going through the thread in which discussion for the next t20 squad for windies series of going on, a poster posted it should be upto Sohail Inzi Maqsood to decide whether he should open for practice or bat at 7, lol a hack like maqsood absolutely mediocre batsman should be kept away from side let alone be deciding his position in the line up and one fluke innings ain't getting you in the side let alone be deciding your position.

 

[barah_admi]

some of the posters here a laugh worthy, was going through the thread in which discussion for the next t20 squad for windies series of going on, a poster posted it should be upto Sohail Inzi Maqsood to decide whether he should open for practice or bat at 7, lol a hack like maqsood absolutely mediocre batsman should be kept away from side let alone be deciding his position in the line up and one fluke innings ain't getting you in the side let alone be deciding your position.

I don't have a problem with Maqsood in the middle order, he can strike it and is a decent fielder, so all set for t20. With Zaman, Babar, Shadab and Hasan as consistent performers, we can afford to have someone like Maqsood imo.

 

[sshakir411]

I get it that Pakistani fans are protective and emotional about Babar. He is our best bat. No doubt about it. But if he is the best we have then he automatically should be compared to the best batsmen in the world. There's no point having our best bat be an accumulator or a Sachin-esque player who scores fifties and hundreds with the team unable to win. Pakistani fans should not be happy with that.

He needs to dominate and we believe he can. Just needs more confidence and needs to believe in himself more than anyone else. No point being an accumulator...he's way too good for that.

 

[HuzaifaE]

Babar needs to be held accountable to a high standard that he is capable of living up to because of the talent and ability he possesses.

He has shown ability to accumulate, and to do so consistently, which is good, but he needs to also show improvement in areas where he is lacking and thus far there hasn't been enough of that, but we need to be patient and back him as one of our only players that can truly live up to a world class tag in the future with adequate further development.

His ability to up the ante, to score more freely near personal landmarks, pure power hitting and test performances all need to be addressed and he has to move in the right direction, else stagnation and recession kicks in as with his cousin.

Nonetheless, I see little to not have faith in Babar to improve so I'm not too concerned that the main issue we have with a 23 year old consistent batsman is run rate as of now.

I say that not to devaluate the importance of run rate (we Pakistanis should know better than anyone), but for someone who needs to bulk up, it's something a bit of patience may yet solve.

 

[barah_admi]

I get it that Pakistani fans are protective and emotional about Babar. He is our best bat. No doubt about it. But if he is the best we have then he automatically should be compared to the best batsmen in the world. There's no point having our best bat be an accumulator or a Sachin-esque player who scores fifties and hundreds with the team unable to win. Pakistani fans should not be happy with that.

He needs to dominate and we believe he can. Just needs more confidence and needs to believe in himself more than anyone else. No point being an accumulator...he's way too good for that.

Again, you are going beyond facts into the land of...I dunno, narnia or something. I haven't been over protective at all or even used personal opinions, I have simply backed stats. Almost all of Babar's international centuries in ODI cricket have come in wins. I think only 2 have been losses. So can you back up your claim he doesn't score when the team needs to win?

let's also look at this talk of sr, I mean, yes he accumulates runs but he also hits boundaries and in t20 cricket, against the world XI, he was hitting at a sr of almost 150 and an average of almost 60.

Comparing his ODI record to the fab four, at similar age/period of time in the game, Babar is far superior to all of them. Only Smith has a better strike rate bt then again, Smith spent a lot of that time as a lower order hitter.

So, there are few if any young batsmen in the history of this game with better starts to their careers. Yes his test form needs to improve but that isnt up for debate at the moment.

 

[DeadBall]

View attachment 80306

Here are the top 3 scorers of the PSL. Even though Babar is at #2 due to his average is SR is way behind that of Ronchi and Kamran who played major hands in getting their teams to the final. The other problem for KK was the 4th batsman on the list is Joe Denly who averaged 32 odd with a somewhat similar SR as Babar.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Babar just needs to believe in his abilities and he'll be fine.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

The problem is people want him to be someone else which he is not. There is place for an accumulator in a cricket team.

Even if we assume there is a place for such a player; and it's very debatable in modern limited overs cricket; the bigger problem is that the accumulator is NEVER. EVER. going to be your best player, let alone one of the best in the world. It's much easier to do than scoring quickly and consistently like Kohli or Dhawan or AB or Root or scoring extremely fast like Maxwell or Munro or England's sloggers.

 

[sshakir411]

Again, you are going beyond facts into the land of...I dunno, narnia or something. I haven't been over protective at all or even used personal opinions, I have simply backed stats. Almost all of Babar's international centuries in ODI cricket have come in wins. I think only 2 have been losses. So can you back up your claim he doesn't score when the team needs to win?

let's also look at this talk of sr, I mean, yes he accumulates runs but he also hits boundaries and in t20 cricket, against the world XI, he was hitting at a sr of almost 150 and an average of almost 60.

Comparing his ODI record to the fab four, at similar age/period of time in the game, Babar is far superior to all of them. Only Smith has a better strike rate bt then again, Smith spent a lot of that time as a lower order hitter.

So, there are few if any young batsmen in the history of this game with better starts to their careers. Yes his test form needs to improve but that isnt up for debate at the moment.

Comparing him to the fab four at similar age/period is pointless imo. Babar's stats are great and everyone has known that for a while.

His numbers are slightly skewed due to the 5 consecutive hundreds in the UAE. I am not discounting his performance...he was the second coming of Kohli for all of us when that happened. But 3 out of those could be argued as easier hundreds against a depleted WI. He's made us win against Sri Lanka, West Indies, etc..and I recognize his contribution to those wins but I want the same when he plays New Zealand, Australia, or any other top team.

His recent ODI outing hasn't been great and while he's done good in T20s numbers wise he still isn't a force to be reckoned with in that format as well.

All I want as a Pakistani fan is a Babar who knows he's good and goes out to bat out of his skin every time. Goes out to confront the opposition bowlers and comes out on top against the top teams. That part is still lacking. Only then will he be truly comparable to Kohli and Smith et al..

Also I'd like to know which one of his hundreds (be specific) would you say was an innings that other batsmen could not have played if they were in the same situation?

 

[Rayyman]

Look at this way. The best middle order batsmen in the world are the Fab 4.

But they are all entering their primes.

Now look at the best batsmen under 24. It's clearly Babar and Kusal Mendis and the rest aren't even close.

 

[CricCrazyNick]

Babar Azam is great future prospect with good technique
And he can excel in T20 cricket even without slogging..He is jus 22 and few people here have already decided his fate
Ths world is too harsh..

 

[mohan11]

Honestly, I find him a selfish Batman, the one he scored against Australia is an prime example.

 

[barah_admi]

Comparing him to the fab four at similar age/period is pointless imo. Babar's stats are great and everyone has known that for a while.

His numbers are slightly skewed due to the 5 consecutive hundreds in the UAE. I am not discounting his performance...he was the second coming of Kohli for all of us when that happened. But 3 out of those could be argued as easier hundreds against a depleted WI. He's made us win against Sri Lanka, West Indies, etc..and I recognize his contribution to those wins but I want the same when he plays New Zealand, Australia, or any other top team.

His recent ODI outing hasn't been great and while he's done good in T20s numbers wise he still isn't a force to be reckoned with in that format as well.

All I want as a Pakistani fan is a Babar who knows he's good and goes out to bat out of his skin every time. Goes out to confront the opposition bowlers and comes out on top against the top teams. That part is still lacking. Only then will he be truly comparable to Kohli and Smith et al..

Also I'd like to know which one of his hundreds (be specific) would you say was an innings that other batsmen could not have played if they were in the same situation?

I don't think you have any unbiased view, I'm not quite sure where you're from but your whole game is to discount everything Babar has done and I have posted. At a similar stage in their careers, Babar has a hundred outside of Asia, KOhli had none.

Bye.

 

[DeadBall]

Honestly, I find him a selfish Batman, the one he scored against Australia is an prime example.

What? Batman is not selfish

 

[WengerOut]

I don't think you have any unbiased view, I'm not quite sure where you're from but your whole game is to discount everything Babar has done and I have posted. At a similar stage in their careers, Babar has a hundred outside of Asia, KOhli had none.

Bye.

I think Kohli had a hundred in England 2011.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

The mere fact that people are over-critical of Babar is a testament to how much he has achieved. We all know he is ahead of the fab 4 by most metrics when they were at a similar stage of their career. He will have ups and downs but will mostly get better from here. People forget that players like Kohli weren't made in a day. He wasn't the fitness freak at a young age like he is now and it took years of experience and dedication that made him into the player that he is today. If we want Babar to achieve even greater heights, then we need to be patient with him.

 

[sshakir411]

I don't think you have any unbiased view, I'm not quite sure where you're from but your whole game is to discount everything Babar has done and I have posted. At a similar stage in their careers, Babar has a hundred outside of Asia, KOhli had none.

Bye.

lmao. Really? That hundred outside Asia was pretty embarrassing for Babar, specially when chasing 300+ and celebrating it like he had won the world cup. I'm Pakistani..you clearly haven't been around here long enough nor are able to digest people having different opinions.

 

[barah_admi]

lmao. Really? That hundred outside Asia was pretty embarrassing for Babar, specially when chasing 300+ and celebrating it like he had won the world cup. I'm Pakistani..you clearly haven't been around here long enough nor are able to digest people having different opinions.

You can call yourself Pakistan all you like but you made claims and failed to back all of them up.And regardless of your biased and quite frankly, sub intelligent assessment, he has more centuries outside Asia at this stage than Kohli. Enjoy the pain it causes you because I'm done.

 

[barah_admi]

The mere fact that people are over-critical of Babar is a testament to how much he has achieved. We all know he is ahead of the fab 4 by most metrics when they were at a similar stage of their career. He will have ups and downs but will mostly get better from here. People forget that players like Kohli weren't made in a day. He wasn't the fitness freak at a young age like he is now and it took years of experience and dedication that made him into the player that he is today. If we want Babar to achieve even greater heights, then we need to be patient with him.

I think most genuine cricket posters and Pakistanis on here see Babar for what he is, the most exceptional young batsman on the circuit. However, and you will know better as you're an admin, there are mostly Indians on here, I mean in the short time I've been a member here (frequented the site for longer) almost every thread as a 7 or 8 out of 10 posters who are Indian or anti-Pak, with Pkaistan flags in their account.

Their job on here is to spread pro Indian propaganda and anti Pak propaganda. We've got a guy stating hundreds of thousands of people have died in Pakistan since the attacks on the SL team bus. We've got guys proclaiming Amir and Babar shouldn't be making international sides lol

It's ridiculous here. I've tried to make a thread based on simple facts and figures yet (apart from a tiny minority) every poster is repeating the same old schtick...not at all backed up by any reality.

I think Kohli had a hundred in England 2011.

Not in the first 3 year period i'm looking at, which is 59 games.

 

[babajee]

It’s a funny situation

If he didn’t score in that match then people would have labelled him a choker and Amla clone.

Now he scored and couldn’t take the team home, people are blaming him for the loss when for the majority of the innings he had a higher strike rate than Denly and did his job of anchoring the chase. Yes he started slow but he quickly recovered...

Did you expect him to chase it down singlehandedly?

 

[Syed1]

It’s a funny situation

If he didn’t score in that match then people would have labelled him a choker and Amla clone.

Now he scored and couldn’t take the team home, people are blaming him for the loss when for the majority of the innings he had a higher strike rate than Denly and did his job of anchoring the chase. Yes he started slow but he quickly recovered...

Did you expect him to chase it down singlehandedly?

Put aside your bias. It was a garbage innings. Infact it reminded me of Misbah's innings in the 2011 WC. Sir Misbah was tuk tuking and when the match was all but lost he started hitting to up his SR and in the end people said atleast he tried. Same with Babar, only started accelerating when the target was beyond reach. Heck him and Denly played the same number of bowls and Denly scored around 15 runs more than him, in the end that was the difference between both sides.

Babar has no business playing T20s, and in ODIs if we are chasing anything over 320 he should be sent at number 11 otherwise he will only hurt the team's chances.

 

[babajee]

Put aside your bias. It was a garbage innings. Infact it reminded me of Misbah's innings in the 2011 WC. Sir Misbah was tuk tuking and when the match was all but lost he started hitting to up his SR and in the end people said atleast he tried. Same with Babar, only started accelerating when the target was beyond reach. Heck him and Denly played the same number of bowls and Denly scored around 15 runs more than him, in the end that was the difference between both sides.

Babar has no business playing T20s, and in ODIs if we are chasing anything over 320 he should be sent at number 11 otherwise he will only hurt the team's chances.

Yeah the start of his innings was trash I agree. He almost played out a maiden I think which was criminal.

Denly only scored 15 more because he hit a few shots at the end when the game was “beyond reach”. Otherwise he was just swinging blindly and hardly came off. Case in point being the fact that Babar was striking at a higher rate than him for most of his innings. He’s just as responsible for the loss if not more imo.

 

[Syed1]

Yeah the start of his innings was trash I agree. He almost played out a maiden I think which was criminal.

Denly only scored 15 more because he hit a few shots at the end when the game was “beyond reach”. Otherwise he was just swinging blindly and hardly came off. Case in point being the fact that Babar was striking at a higher rate than him for most of his innings. He’s just as responsible for the loss if not more imo.

Confirmation bias... in your opinion Sir Babar is not to be blamed hence you are shifting the blame onto Denly because Sir Babar had a "better SR than him for most of his innings"

 

[babajee]

Confirmation bias... in your opinion Sir Babar is not to be blamed hence you are shifting the blame onto Denly because Sir Babar had a "better SR than him for most of his innings"

Sir Babar has a different role in the team which is to anchor the innings. He needed a partner to be striking at a better rate than him if they wanted to chase the target down..

 

[Rayyman]

Sir Babar has a different role in the team which is to anchor the innings. He needed a partner to be striking at a better rate than him if they wanted to chase the target down..

He played well. Was 1(7) after Hasan Ali bowled an unplayable over. Did well not to get out.

Still getting to a SR of 140 from then on is commendable.

After that over he went at a strike rate that was 160+.

Denly was actually slower throughout the whole innings until the last two overs he hit a six and a four. But the match was over by then.

 

[msb314]

Put aside your bias. It was a garbage innings. Infact it reminded me of Misbah's innings in the 2011 WC. Sir Misbah was tuk tuking and when the match was all but lost he started hitting to up his SR and in the end people said atleast he tried. Same with Babar, only started accelerating when the target was beyond reach. Heck him and Denly played the same number of bowls and Denly scored around 15 runs more than him, in the end that was the difference between both sides.

Babar has no business playing T20s, and in ODIs if we are chasing anything over 320 he should be sent at number 11 otherwise he will only hurt the team's chances.

You are being harsh and unfair on Babar.

He played a decent T20 innings that would be match-winning in most circumstances. However - KK were chasing 10+ RPO from the get go. It was a near impossible chase (equivalent of chasing 520 in an ODI...)

Keep in mind Kk reached 157 which was a final RR of 9.9. That is in fact very very good - even on a flat pitch. It is just that PZ played out of their skins that day.

I would take Babar’s “slow” innings (that nearly finished his team with.run rate of 10) rather than most of our lalu panju batsman who are their to make up the numbers only

 

[sshakir411]

You can call yourself Pakistan all you like but you made claims and failed to back all of them up.And regardless of your biased and quite frankly, sub intelligent assessment, he has more centuries outside Asia at this stage than Kohli. Enjoy the pain it causes you because I'm done.

LOL. you're hilarious. Being called non Pakistani for not towing and over praising the only batsman we have, that's a first. You should take heed from your user name and act like it.

 

[barah_admi]

He played well. Was 1(7) after Hasan Ali bowled an unplayable over. Did well not to get out.

Still getting to a SR of 140 from then on is commendable.

After that over he went at a strike rate that was 160+.

Denly was actually slower throughout the whole innings until the last two overs he hit a six and a four. But the match was over by then.

You are being harsh and unfair on Babar.

He played a decent T20 innings that would be match-winning in most circumstances. However - KK were chasing 10+ RPO from the get go. It was a near impossible chase (equivalent of chasing 520 in an ODI...)

Keep in mind Kk reached 157 which was a final RR of 9.9. That is in fact very very good - even on a flat pitch. It is just that PZ played out of their skins that day.

I would take Babar’s “slow” innings (that nearly finished his team with.run rate of 10) rather than most of our lalu panju batsman who are their to make up the numbers only

Exactly, 2 great posts!

 

[Kroll]

I'm not too bothered about Babar in T20's. In fact, I think he should be rested or limited for the T20 NT and instead get him honed up for ODI's and Tests where we need him to perform the most. The last thing we need is a burned out Babar.

 

[barah_admi]

Babar "he should be dropped" Azam has the highest T20 average for anyone with 20 or more T20 matches. Only Kohli averages close to him, of the 11 others who average 35+, only 5 have a sr of 130+.

But yes, this guy breathing rarefied air in the T20 circuit should be dropped.

 

[Greenstorm]

Babar has amazing numbers and his consistency is phenomenal but I still feel that his batting is not suited for T20s. He should atleast look to develop power game against spinners. Even TTFs like Malik and Hafeez are lot better when it comes to hitting down the ground against spinners.

 

[barah_admi]

Babar has amazing numbers and his consistency is phenomenal but I still feel that his batting is not suited for T20s. He should atleast look to develop power game against spinners. Even TTFs like Malik and Hafeez are lot better when it comes to hitting down the ground against spinners.

But Pakistan have 3 or 4 batsmen now who can strike the ball very well, Babar is needed to get to 40 or 50, at a sr of 125-130 and keep it steady. If he is doing that with a limited power game (Can still hit sixes) then there's nothing wrong with.

Of course young players should develop new facets to their game, but no batsman or bowler can be perfect, and this may be something Babar will never be great at.

 

[OmaIR1]

He is not cut out for T20s, he is a one dimensional player and gets bogged down once you cut off his scoring areas. Watching him struggle to get his 100 in the 2nd T20 was case in point. He lacks the muscle to do something innovative that is required to get runs in T20s. He is a great choice for one days and test matches though.

Dinesh Karthik who is of similar build has shown his oomph and versatility recently against Bangladesh and many times in the IPL. I would take Karthik over Babar in T20s any day of the week.

 

[barah_admi]

He is not cut out for T20s, he is a one dimensional player and gets bogged down once you cut off his scoring areas. Watching him struggle to get his 100 in the 2nd T20 was case in point. He lacks the muscle to do something innovative that is required to get runs in T20s. He is a great choice for one days and test matches though.

Dinesh Karthik who is of similar build has shown his oomph and versatility recently against Bangladesh and many times in the IPL. I would take Karthik over Babar in T20s any day of the week.

hahahaha prime example of hatred and bias right here, guy wins man of the series but isn't cut out for t20s

 

[barah_admi]

Also, Babar's 97 came at a sr of 167...but he is too slow apparently

 

[ManFan]

He is criticized way too harshly in my opinion.

Pushing him to open has done wonders for us as he was usually coming in at a low score anyways.

In 3-4 years, I think he has a great chance at becoming the best batsman in the world if he continues this form. He is striking at a SR of 127 and 84 (should improve as he opens regularly) averaging 50 in both ODI's and T20's in only his second full year of international cricket. What more do we as fans want?

Most Pakistanis three years back would have drooled for a player like this in the top order.

 

[babajee]

The way he can bat at 150SR+ in a T20 without taking risks shows his class. Done it against World XI, NZ, WI.

In ODI it’s just a matter of time before he starts churning out the 100s against top teams.

He’s developing nicely. PPers need to be a bit more patient.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Back to number one in T20 rankings

 

[ataullah]

Hes brilliant. I think he needs to develop scoop shot against full ball which he struggled against in t20. If he can add scoop shot, reverse sweep and switch hit☺ he'll be awesome

 

[barah_admi]

The way he can bat at 150SR+ in a T20 without taking risks shows his class. Done it against World XI, NZ, WI.

In ODI it’s just a matter of time before he starts churning out the 100s against top teams.

He’s developing nicely. PPers need to be a bit more patient.

Exactly this, although centuries in Australia and WI are not too shabby. Plus, in his last ODI against England, which is probably the best ODI team going, he scored fluently and would have gotten a 50, if not a 100 if the score chasing has been bigger.

Back to number one in T20 rankings

Rankings apparently don't mean anything when Pakistanis are in them.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

He's improving his game especially with regards to power hitting. He actually does remind of Virat Kohli in the sense that while he's talented, he's had to work much harder than other to get to where he's at. As long as he has that drive he'll improve. And the best part is that this Pakistani team will allow him to do that without having him dropped after a few failures.

He does need to improve his Test game and his overseas ODI game but we need to give him time. We forget that he's so young cause he's the best batsman in the team. We're not India who have multiple batsman knocking on the door, so I guess we should stop comparing Babar to them (though I'm as guilty of that as everyone else ). Give him time and I'm sure we're onto something truly special here!

On the contrary, always felt that Umar Akmal was similar to Rohit Sharma. Both have outrageous natural talent, and Sharma was a massive underachiever at national level for many years too. He then turned it around through the proper guidance; Umar looks a lost cause. Just an aside.

 

[babajee]

Exactly this, although centuries in Australia and WI are not too shabby. Plus, in his last ODI against England, which is probably the best ODI team going, he scored fluently and would have gotten a 50, if not a 100 if the score chasing has been bigger.

Rankings apparently don't mean anything when Pakistanis are in them.

Also that game against SA in the CT, he was well set on 31* but then the rain came. Could have easily got 70-80* in a winning cause.

 

[barah_admi]

He's improving his game especially with regards to power hitting. He actually does remind of Virat Kohli in the sense that while he's talented, he's had to work much harder than other to get to where he's at. As long as he has that drive he'll improve. And the best part is that this Pakistani team will allow him to do that without having him dropped after a few failures.

He does need to improve his Test game and his overseas ODI game but we need to give him time. We forget that he's so young cause he's the best batsman in the team. We're not India who have multiple batsman knocking on the door, so I guess we should stop comparing Babar to them (though I'm as guilty of that as everyone else ). Give him time and I'm sure we're onto something truly special here!

On the contrary, always felt that Umar Akmal was similar to Rohit Sharma. Both have outrageous natural talent, and Sharma was a massive underachiever at national level for many years too. He then turned it around through the proper guidance; Umar looks a lost cause. Just an aside.

Babar is clearly better than Kohli at this stage in their respective careers, I mean better by a vast margin.But you are spot on, Kohli's work ethic is second to none and Babar seems to be similar in that regard. I think a huge wake up call for Kohli was his initial poor outings in tests, he went back to the drawing board and came back as an almost unrecognisable batsman.

Also that game against SA in the CT, he was well set on 31* but then the rain came. Could have easily got 70-80* in a winning cause.

I forgot about that one too. In fact, babar looks set almost every time he bats, which helps with his consistency.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

He is criticized this much because of the bar he has set for young batsman not just in Pakistan, but worldwide. If he was another TTF we wouldn't be having so many discussions about him.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Princejain191]

Babar is clearly better than Kohli at this stage in their respective careers, I mean better by a vast margin.But you are spot on, Kohli's work ethic is second to none and Babar seems to be similar in that regard. I think a huge wake up call for Kohli was his initial poor outings in tests, he went back to the drawing board and came back as an almost unrecognisable batsman.

Are you sure?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

This is where Virat was at at about 23 years and 180 days.
11 ODI centuries and 21 fifties (compared to 7/7 for Babar). Took apart Malinga, made a 183* vs Pakistan. Scored a century in England. Averaged 57 in SA. Averaged 50+ away from home in ODIs. And was our highest scorer in test series in Australia against a top attack on tough pitches.

 

[Princejain191]

And yes, most of the criticism is unwarranted given how young he is and how responsibly he plays most of the times. A good player with good values. But all this is part and parcel of being from India/Pakistan. Everyone has opinions here and you are appreciated and degraded to extremes. There is no middle ground.

 

[barah_admi]

Looking at ODI records of Babar Azam v the current "Fab Four" at similar stages and ages in their careers. So roughly the first 3 years of their international ODI careers.

Averages -
Babar 51.11
Kohli 43.93
Root 39.12
Williamson 36.20
Smith 21.11

SR -
Babar 84.26
Smith 86.75
Root 82.15
Kohli 81.92
Williamson 77.77

Babar also end up topping the centuries charts, with fewer matches than Kohli (59) and Williamson (45).

At this point, Kohli did not hold a single century outside Asia, whereas Babar holds 2, one of which came against a strong Australia, reigning world champions side.

Not too shabby for a "tuk tuk" and a "selfish player" who "shouldn't be in the Pakistan side".

Bumping this post for the guy claiming Kohli is ahead, after having played for a similar number of years, this is how all of the fab four stack up against Babar.
[MENTION=297]Prince[/MENTION]jain

 

[barah_admi]

And yes, most of the criticism is unwarranted given how young he is and how responsibly he plays most of the times. A good player with good values. But all this is part and parcel of being from India/Pakistan. Everyone has opinions here and you are appreciated and degraded to extremes. There is no middle ground.

I hope you saw the post above.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Absolutely not. If you had told me in 2013 we would have a 23 year old 50 avg LOI batter with a clean technique I would think its a pipedream.