Bangladesh: Still cricket minnows?

[Pakpak]

As a fan of Bangladesh cricket it's disheartening to see recent results against a very poor Lankan side, couple of years ago they smashed India Pak and saffers at home, they have seemed to regress alot especially in the last 8 months or so. Bangla has a batting culture the really do lack bowling culture and without bowlers you won't win many games unless you have the batting line up dhoni had to his disposal. Even the spin bowlers barring shakib havent done alot in odis away from home, spinners are mediocre at best and the fast bowling is virtually none existent. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] iv seen many interesting posts from yourself regarding what Pakistan cricket needs to do to improve on their batting. What would you suggest needs to be done to bring about a (fast/mystery) bowling culture in Bangladesh.

It was almost five years ago, not couple of years ago. I am surprised BD fans keep using those series as some sort of examples everytime. It'd be like us using the 2012 win vs India in India as some sort of reflection on how our team is today. All those wins were half a decade ago now almost.

 

[MMHS]

It was almost five years ago, not couple of years ago. I am surprised BD fans keep using those series as some sort of examples everytime. It'd be like us using the 2012 win vs India in India as some sort of reflection on how our team is today. All those wins were half a decade ago now almost.

No, it’s april 2015 to August 2015 - that’s less than 3 years and that’s still the last bilateral against PAK & IND.

Coming to the topic, it’s sick mentality to bump this thread whenever BD is losing - less than a year ago we had 1-1 in 3 formats in SRL, and 7 months back a CT SF - I didn’t read a single praise from usual “critics”.

As I said, this thread was opened by a PAK poster in May 2015, after a 4-0 loss with every game ending embrassingly one sided - which should be indicative enough. No BD poster come here to trolling - and, when we qualified for CT in Sep 2015 ( & PCB had to hide from WI/ZIM to hang on to 8th spot), I can post some “sick” posts from there as well, which doesn’t reflect proper spirit.

These days, PP darling is Afghanistan, which is fine - but I didn’t see much “reaction” after they lost to Ireland in UAE from 1-0 up. Few months back I had to put some idiots regarding payment of BPL & quality of foreign recruits - I don’t see them trolling after PSL foreign recruits. I read “intelligent” posters taking a dig at BPL after we lost to SRL - same people think PSL is going to fix that 5-0.....

PCB is literally begging to BCCi and ready to play any team in UAE - some trolls try to sell that it’s not worthy arranging series with BD in UAE.

BCB has increased its revenue by several times from multiple internal & external sources - last NZ, SRL tour almost entire on field branding & sporship came from BD, even in SAF as well there were major inv symmetry from BCB. Then the latest troll I read is that ICC is pouring money for BD cricket - and then gets exposed.

 

[BDfanforever]

Guys, there is no point sugar coating it. BD bowling is so bad that i don't see how we can ever be a strong team. We got smoked in NZ, SA, and now in home to this hapless SRL team. I mean thisara perera still wrecking us in 2018, lol.

Shakib has zero motivation to play for BD because these days playing in t20 league is much more economical. When Tamim retires, that will pretty much be end of BD cricket.

 

[Mr.Q]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has made some valid points. Bangladesh is a lot better than what they used to be. And they're managing to win matches against top teams on home soil. But still it's hard to categorise BD as a non-minnow side. Cricket is a sport played by just 12 countries and the gap between the best side and the worst side is HUGE. If you can't be among the top 5-6 teams at least once in a while it's difficult to call you a strong team.

I'm not buying the late entrant excuse at all. Bangladesh have been playing cricket for some time now and they should have been a lot better than what they are right now. I see it as a problem within BD itself. The reality is that there is a severe lack of talent. The board may have some money in the bank, but it seems like a cricketing culture is absent in Bangladesh. The kinda one Pakistan has which enables them to produce decent talent even in the current scenario. Maybe it's because of the lack of any substantial achievement in cricket. I don't know much about the domestic structure in BD but what I do know is, there is a dearth of talent. Perhaps [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] can throw more light on this.

 

[jnaveen1980]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has made some valid points. Bangladesh is a lot better than what they used to be. And they're managing to win matches against top teams on home soil. But still it's hard to categorise BD as a non-minnow side. Cricket is a sport played by just 12 countries and the gap between the best side and the worst side is HUGE. If you can't be among the top 5-6 teams at least once in a while it's difficult to call you a strong team.

I'm not buying the late entrant excuse at all. Bangladesh have been playing cricket for some time now and they should have been a lot better than what they are right now. I see it as a problem within BD itself. The reality is that there is a severe lack of talent. The board may have some money in the bank, but it seems like a cricketing culture is absent in Bangladesh. The kinda one Pakistan has which enables them to produce decent talent even in the current scenario. Maybe it's because of the lack of any substantial achievement in cricket. I don't know much about the domestic structure in BD but what I do know is, there is a dearth of talent. Perhaps [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] can throw more light on this.

I echoed similar sentiments few posts back. For instance SA lost Donald, Kallis, Pollock, Ntini.. then they had a new batch Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Rabada. Talent keeps coming through. In no time Rabada became a world no.1 bowler. You don't see that happening on the BD side. Their talent has a cealing beyond which they don't grow. Unless they produce world class talents they will stay between average and well below average. Pakistan as you mentioned despite lack of domestic cricket, despite losing 2 gun bowlers for 5 years, 1 bowler for chucking managed to put together a team and compete. Having said that they have made some progress in the last few years. But what will happen to them post Shakib Al Hasan? In all their test wins he played a major role. It is almost like they cannot compete without him.

 

[DeadBall]

No, it’s april 2015 to August 2015 - that’s less than 3 years and that’s still the last bilateral against PAK & IND.

Coming to the topic, it’s sick mentality to bump this thread whenever BD is losing - less than a year ago we had 1-1 in 3 formats in SRL, and 7 months back a CT SF - I didn’t read a single praise from usual “critics”.

As I said, this thread was opened by a PAK poster in May 2015, after a 4-0 loss with every game ending embrassingly one sided - which should be indicative enough. No BD poster come here to trolling - and, when we qualified for CT in Sep 2015 ( & PCB had to hide from WI/ZIM to hang on to 8th spot), I can post some “sick” posts from there as well, which doesn’t reflect proper spirit.

These days, PP darling is Afghanistan, which is fine - but I didn’t see much “reaction” after they lost to Ireland in UAE from 1-0 up. Few months back I had to put some idiots regarding payment of BPL & quality of foreign recruits - I don’t see them trolling after PSL foreign recruits. I read “intelligent” posters taking a dig at BPL after we lost to SRL - same people think PSL is going to fix that 5-0.....

PCB is literally begging to BCCi and ready to play any team in UAE - some trolls try to sell that it’s not worthy arranging series with BD in UAE.

BCB has increased its revenue by several times from multiple internal & external sources - last NZ, SRL tour almost entire on field branding & sporship came from BD, even in SAF as well there were major inv symmetry from BCB. Then the latest troll I read is that ICC is pouring money for BD cricket - and then gets exposed.

Everything considered BD have regressed badly. They had a purple patch for a bit but I think that will be that highlight for a while. As we discussed earlier, you don't have any LOI batsmen apart from Tamim who seems to be going through a purple patch himself. The rest, Afif including don't have any power game. Mushfiqur and even Shakib and co are good for some reverse sweeps to maintain their SR but that hides the overall deficiency. Even AFG have a many more power hitters than BD (and Zimb).

Also you choose to accommodate players like Sabbir (fame got to his head like Pandya) etc and that shows that you are going in an Afridi state of mind (who probably did even more). Your pace bowling is nothing to talk about either which is the main problem.

I foresee you guys going from bad to worse as you don't have players like Fakhar, Amir Hassan etc who can change a match due to their brilliance.

 

[Mr.Q]

I echoed similar sentiments few posts back. For instance SA lost Donald, Kallis, Pollock, Ntini.. then they had a new batch Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Rabada. Talent keeps coming through. In no time Rabada became a world no.1 bowler. You don't see that happening on the BD side. Their talent has a cealing beyond which they don't grow. Unless they produce world class talents they will stay between average and well below average. Pakistan as you mentioned despite lack of domestic cricket, despite losing 2 gun bowlers for 5 years, 1 bowler for chucking managed to put together a team and compete. Having said that they have made some progress in the last few years. But what will happen to them post Shakib Al Hasan? In all their test wins he played a major role. It is almost like they cannot compete without him.

You're right the future doesn't look too good for Bangladesh cricket if they continue this way. Another issue apart from the dearth of talent is the mentality. They seem to be happy with the way they are going right now. One win here and there is enough it seems. If there is no will, there wont be a way!

 

[MMHS]

Everything considered BD have regressed badly. They had a purple patch for a bit but I think that will be that highlight for a while. As we discussed earlier, you don't have any LOI batsmen apart from Tamim who seems to be going through a purple patch himself. The rest, Afif including don't have any power game. Mushfiqur and even Shakib and co are good for some reverse sweeps to maintain their SR but that hides the overall deficiency. Even AFG have a many more power hitters than BD (and Zimb).

Also you choose to accommodate players like Sabbir (fame got to his head like Pandya) etc and that shows that you are going in an Afridi state of mind (who probably did even more). Your pace bowling is nothing to talk about either which is the main problem.

I foresee you guys going from bad to worse as you don't have players like Fakhar, Amir Hassan etc who can change a match due to their brilliance.

You are factually incorrect. Problem for most PAK posters is that they visit BD threads only when team loses. That 2015 was an exceptional raise for a bottom ranked team (29 points gap from a CT qualifier spot), which can't be set as a bench mark. Since then, team has made Asia Cup final in T20, has won Tests against ENG, AUS, in SRL; has made SF of CT, has beaten NZ in Ireland as well. Few days back, team saved a Test batting 110 overs on last innings - every bit of credit was stolen through the flatness of wicket.

There are 3 factors going against us - after a long time, we are visiting away from home - NZ & SAF. You are still talking big after Test & ODI series in NZ by PAK, and I am sure you'll talk big after SAF tour next year. For a team hardly playing outside home, it's going to be tough and we are in a time when Counties won't develop our players, it has to be done internally.

2nd factor is that we are going through a major coaching change over. I don't want to disgrace Hathura, but what he did wasn't professional. BCB could have blocked Hatura joining SRL team, at least till BD tour, because he was leaving, BCB didn't sack him. There are few high profile names in line - once the coaching staffs are fixed, lots of things should come back to alignment.

3rd I don't want to put as an excuse, but for a team like us with very limited player pool, it's difficult to find ready made replacement for a player like Shakib & Tamim. They have picked few new faces as well, which is positive sign.

Pace bowling is the weakness, hence it'll be tough to find pacers like Amir or Hasan, but Fakhar ... I hope you'll still posting here in future. The power hitting you are talking is basically slogging - that won't work beyond T20, and I do agree that it'll take time for us to develop in T20.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has made some valid points. Bangladesh is a lot better than what they used to be. And they're managing to win matches against top teams on home soil. But still it's hard to categorise BD as a non-minnow side. Cricket is a sport played by just 12 countries and the gap between the best side and the worst side is HUGE. If you can't be among the top 5-6 teams at least once in a while it's difficult to call you a strong team.

I'm not buying the late entrant excuse at all. Bangladesh have been playing cricket for some time now and they should have been a lot better than what they are right now. I see it as a problem within BD itself. The reality is that there is a severe lack of talent. The board may have some money in the bank, but it seems like a cricketing culture is absent in Bangladesh. The kinda one Pakistan has which enables them to produce decent talent even in the current scenario. Maybe it's because of the lack of any substantial achievement in cricket. I don't know much about the domestic structure in BD but what I do know is, there is a dearth of talent. Perhaps [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] can throw more light on this.

The biggest problem for us & any emerging Country (actually for most teams going forward) - the game is learned through FC system, which has no future, neither money, crowd pull or even interest from new generation players. Unless we improve in that area (it's simple - earn money from T20 and invest in FC system, which takes a lot bigger heart & vision), it's impossible to develop players.

 

[babajee]

Pace bowling is the weakness, hence it'll be tough to find pacers like Amir or Hasan, but Fakhar ... I hope you'll still posting here in future. The power hitting you are talking is basically slogging - that won't work beyond T20, and I do agree that it'll take time for us to develop in T20.

What’s the problem with Fakhar? Do you not think he’s a good player?

 

[Third_Umpire]

Bangladesh is still Bangladesh..

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Why is everyone forgetting the elephant on the field, ie the wickets?

On typical ODI wickets, BD were so far ahead in the first 3 games of the tri series, it only made sense to just give them the trophy and spare SL and ZIM further embarassment. Of course the Lankans came back once the wickets started playing dumb. Kudos to the SL boys cuz BD should have still won.

But even in the tests on a dead track SL were only able to take 15 wickets at a cost of 800 runs. I doubt teams like AFG, ZIM, WI, or PAK could do that unless we start calling all of them minnows too.

That being said, there are serious systemic issues with Bangladesh cricket which are hamlering further long term development.

 

[MMHS]

What’s the problem with Fakhar? Do you not think he’s a good player?

Not worthy of mentioning with Amir & Hasan when it comes to the weakness of BD team. Batting isn't the issue and he won't make the team ahead of Tamim. Soumya has a better chance for longer and more successful career.

 

[babajee]

Not worthy of mentioning with Amir & Hasan when it comes to the weakness of BD team. Batting isn't the issue and he won't make the team ahead of Tamim. Soumya has a better chance for longer and more successful career.

Bangladeshi batting + Pakistani bowling = Best team in Asia?

 

[MMHS]

Bangladeshi batting + Pakistani bowling = Best team in Asia?

A combined squad will definitely make it really good team, particularly in ODI.

 

[BlueDoritos]

Bangladeshi batting + Pakistani bowling = Best team in Asia?

Bangladeshi batting line up is far from the best

 

[Executioner]

It seems our recent performance has given an oppurtunity for haters to lash out. No doubt we have underperformed since the SA series. We have struggled with bat, bowl or both in many of the matches barring a few here and there.

However, calling a team minnows is a huge disservice to our side given that we won a test against Australia, drew series against Lanka in Lanka, beat NZ to qualify for semis of CT. We are having a sudden bad patch and I am sure it too will go away. I am positive that once we have a proper head coach and a batting coach our team will be more complete.

I am more surprised by the lack of fringe options, mostly because our A team doesn't get too many matches. Shakib got injured, unfortunate. We don't have his replacement. Infact, Shakib is an irreplaceable cricketer in world cricket because he is arguably the only genuine allrounder in world cricket who can play for a side on the basis of either batting or bowling alone. And for a developing nation like Bangladesh its not gonna be easy to find replacement. We have someone like Miraz who has potential but still not completely matured yet especially his batting.

I hope that with few more seasons of Bangladesh Premier league, NOTE: Not Foreigners Premier league, can help our fringe players. So will a lot of A team tournaments/tour.

 

[MMHS]

It seems our recent performance has given an oppurtunity for haters to lash out. No doubt we have underperformed since the SA series. We have struggled with bat, bowl or both in many of the matches barring a few here and there.

However, calling a team minnows is a huge disservice to our side given that we won a test against Australia, drew series against Lanka in Lanka, beat NZ to qualify for semis of CT. We are having a sudden bad patch and I am sure it too will go away. I am positive that once we have a proper head coach and a batting coach our team will be more complete.

I am more surprised by the lack of fringe options, mostly because our A team doesn't get too many matches. Shakib got injured, unfortunate. We don't have his replacement. Infact, Shakib is an irreplaceable cricketer in world cricket because he is arguably the only genuine allrounder in world cricket who can play for a side on the basis of either batting or bowling alone. And for a developing nation like Bangladesh its not gonna be easy to find replacement. We have someone like Miraz who has potential but still not completely matured yet especially his batting.

I hope that with few more seasons of Bangladesh Premier league, NOTE: Not Foreigners Premier league, can help our fringe players. So will a lot of A team tournaments/tour.

What's the update on coaching staff?

 

[BDfanforever]

A combined squad will definitely make it really good team, particularly in ODI.

No it wont. Both are bottom tier teams.

 

[introvert]

Batting is decent but bowling is regressed and lacks the intensity that we showed when heath streak was head coach.

 

[CanadianG00se]

It seems our recent performance has given an oppurtunity for haters to lash out. No doubt we have underperformed since the SA series. We have struggled with bat, bowl or both in many of the matches barring a few here and there.

However, calling a team minnows is a huge disservice to our side given that we won a test against Australia, drew series against Lanka in Lanka, beat NZ to qualify for semis of CT. We are having a sudden bad patch and I am sure it too will go away. I am positive that once we have a proper head coach and a batting coach our team will be more complete.

I am more surprised by the lack of fringe options, mostly because our A team doesn't get too many matches. Shakib got injured, unfortunate. We don't have his replacement. Infact, Shakib is an irreplaceable cricketer in world cricket because he is arguably the only genuine allrounder in world cricket who can play for a side on the basis of either batting or bowling alone. And for a developing nation like Bangladesh its not gonna be easy to find replacement. We have someone like Miraz who has potential but still not completely matured yet especially his batting.

I hope that with few more seasons of Bangladesh Premier league, NOTE: Not Foreigners Premier league, can help our fringe players. So will a lot of A team tournaments/tour.

He wont get into Indian team be it Test, Odi or T20 on the basis of bowling alone. In LOIs he may get in on the basis of batting alone, but bowling? No chance. In test Ash and Jaddu are far ahead of him in bowling. And in Lois Chahal and K Yadav are far better than Shakib.

So no, Shakib wont make into World Cricket as a bowler, but as an allrounder sure he MAY if its played in Asia.

 

[CanadianG00se]

A combined squad will definitely make it really good team, particularly in ODI.

Good enough to beat mid tier team consistently, but will still get beaten against top tier team (SA, Eng, Ind, and Aus) more often than not.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Not worthy of mentioning with Amir & Hasan when it comes to the weakness of BD team. Batting isn't the issue and he won't make the team ahead of Tamim. Soumya has a better chance for longer and more successful career.

Soumya is a mental midget and one of the most disappointing talents from Bangladesh. Fakhar Zaman played one of the best innings ever in an India-Pakistan game. There is a universe of a difference between both in-terms of ability.

Fakhar averaged 50 in the ODI series in NZ recently. 5 matches, with a highest score of 82 and two half-centuries. Might go as far as to say that Fakhar is pretty much on par (or slightly better) with your best batsman, Tamim Iqbal, on current form.

 

[Mr.Q]

The biggest problem for us & any emerging Country (actually for most teams going forward) - the game is learned through FC system, which has no future, neither money, crowd pull or even interest from new generation players. Unless we improve in that area (it's simple - earn money from T20 and invest in FC system, which takes a lot bigger heart & vision), it's impossible to develop players.

I understand that but aren't there any tiers below this FC where you identify talents? I mean what I see is a talent issue rather than a practice/coaching issue. There are many places in BD where getting basic education and a job are considered to be a privilege. Does the BCB extend its arm to such places as well through camps and other activities?

 

[MMHS]

I understand that but aren't there any tiers below this FC where you identify talents? I mean what I see is a talent issue rather than a practice/coaching issue. There are many places in BD where getting basic education and a job are considered to be a privilege. Does the BCB extend its arm to such places as well through camps and other activities?

It is happening - from Dhaka, Chittagong city, cricket has expanded across country. But, that transition from lower tier to mid tier is quite easy, it gets tougher from there on. There is a good 20 ranking point gap between top 5 & bottom 5 teams in ODI ranking, and the gap in Test for us is even wider.

 

[MMHS]

Soumya is a mental midget and one of the most disappointing talents from Bangladesh. Fakhar Zaman played one of the best innings ever in an India-Pakistan game. There is a universe of a difference between both in-terms of ability.

Fakhar averaged 50 in the ODI series in NZ recently. 5 matches, with a highest score of 82 and two half-centuries. Might go as far as to say that Fakhar is pretty much on par (or slightly better) with your best batsman, Tamim Iqbal, on current form.

Fakhar is surviving with his hand-eye for the time being, let him play couple of years. Soumya also had a great start in career until he was worked out, but time is at his side.

Tamim is better opener than anyone from PAK since Anwar - or you can other way debate that before NZ & SAF tours by respective tams, Babar & Kohli were statistically similar ODI batsmen ..... may be Kohli slightly better.

 

[MMHS]

Good enough to beat mid tier team consistently, but will still get beaten against top tier team (SA, Eng, Ind, and Aus) more often than not.

IND lost last game to PAK by 180 run, and Poms edged past BD 2-1 in last series, losing to PAK inside 38 overs ...

Coming to combined teams - add Tamim, Shakib, Mushfique as WK, Miraz & Mahmudullah in PAK squad then bring any of the 4 any where ...

 

[MMHS]

IND lost last game to PAK by 180 run, and Poms edged past BD 2-1 in last series, losing to PAK inside 38 overs ...

Coming to combined teams - add Tamim, Shakib, Mushfique as WK, Miraz & Mahmudullah in PAK squad then bring any of the 4 any where ...

I missed Mustafiz as well for the squad - he plays in selective wickets.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

IND lost last game to PAK by 180 run, and Poms edged past BD 2-1 in last series, losing to PAK inside 38 overs ...

Coming to combined teams - add Tamim, Shakib, Mushfique as WK, Miraz & Mahmudullah in PAK squad then bring any of the 4 any where ...

Apart from Tamim and Shakib none of the BD players will make it into the Pakistan squad.

Sarfaraz,Shadab are miles ahead of Mushfiq and Miraz

 

[Mr.Q]

It is happening - from Dhaka, Chittagong city, cricket has expanded across country. But, that transition from lower tier to mid tier is quite easy, it gets tougher from there on. There is a good 20 ranking point gap between top 5 & bottom 5 teams in ODI ranking, and the gap in Test for us is even wider.

Good to hear that. Cricket in its original form won't survive for very long if teams like BD don't get strong.

Soumya is a mental midget and one of the most disappointing talents from Bangladesh. Fakhar Zaman played one of the best innings ever in an India-Pakistan game. There is a universe of a difference between both in-terms of ability.

Fakhar averaged 50 in the ODI series in NZ recently. 5 matches, with a highest score of 82 and two half-centuries. Might go as far as to say that Fakhar is pretty much on par (or slightly better) with your best batsman, Tamim Iqbal, on current form.

Batting like the world is going to end today is not mental toughness bro )

 

[CanadianG00se]

IND lost last game to PAK by 180 run, and Poms edged past BD 2-1 in last series, losing to PAK inside 38 overs ...

Coming to combined teams - add Tamim, Shakib, Mushfique as WK, Miraz & Mahmudullah in PAK squad then bring any of the 4 any where ...

Bro one defeat doesnt make a team bad, similarly one victory doesnt make a team best.

Pakistan lost 5-0 to NZ whereas BD couldnt even compete against SA.

In my previous comment i did said “More often than Not” in other words they would lose more than they would win.

 

[CanadianG00se]

I missed Mustafiz as well for the squad - he plays in selective wickets.

Fizz will not have his heroics against India like he did in his debut series. He was back then mystery bowler which is why he ran through the lineup. I dont see that happening again..

Ever since that series, Fizz have been getting hammered by Indians.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Batting like the world is going to end today is not mental toughness bro )

Please be coherent 'bro'.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Everything considered BD have regressed badly. They had a purple patch for a bit but I think that will be that highlight for a while. As we discussed earlier, you don't have any LOI batsmen apart from Tamim who seems to be going through a purple patch himself. The rest, Afif including don't have any power game. Mushfiqur and even Shakib and co are good for some reverse sweeps to maintain their SR but that hides the overall deficiency. Even AFG have a many more power hitters than BD (and Zimb).

Also you choose to accommodate players like Sabbir (fame got to his head like Pandya) etc and that shows that you are going in an Afridi state of mind (who probably did even more). Your pace bowling is nothing to talk about either which is the main problem.

I foresee you guys going from bad to worse as you don't have players like Fakhar, Amir Hassan etc who can change a match due to their brilliance.

Pandya is still work in progress .. recently won one ODI by his bowling alone vs SA. Sabbir is nobody in terms of talent compared to Pandya, morever for Ind players handling fame and money is lot easier compared to other country players, thanks to IPL.

 

[MMHS]

Fizz will not have his heroics against India like he did in his debut series. He was back then mystery bowler which is why he ran through the lineup. I dont see that happening again..

Ever since that series, Fizz have been getting hammered by Indians.

It's about building an squad of 16, covering every options. Ul Haq sent Nawaz in NZ and his predecessor sent 4 left arm pacers with a leggi & a left-arm spinner .... Mustafiz is not likely to start every game. Since that series, if I can recall correctly, he played only one game at Birmingham, where he'll struggle to most teams not only IND. But, before that he played in 2016 T20 WC in IND on a sluggish wicket, and he was one of the most successful bowler there.

 

[CanadianG00se]

It's about building an squad of 16, covering every options. Ul Haq sent Nawaz in NZ and his predecessor sent 4 left arm pacers with a leggi & a left-arm spinner .... Mustafiz is not likely to start every game. Since that series, if I can recall correctly, he played only one game at Birmingham, where he'll struggle to most teams not only IND. But, before that he played in 2016 T20 WC in IND on a sluggish wicket, and he was one of the most successful bowler there.

He also played against India in Asia cup T20 and was hammered 4Overs for 40 runs and no wicket.

Only Hasan and Amir will pose a threat against India and in batting Fakhar and maybe Tamim will be key. But apart from these four, I just dont see anyone taking game away. On the other hand, Indian team is shaping up nicey. One or two good middle order batsmen and this Team would be near perfect.

 

[Mr.Q]

Please be coherent 'bro'.

Any comment criticising Pak players becomes incomprehensible to you!

Bangladesh isn't the only team with flaws here. Try to have a look at your own backyard once in a while.

 

[MMHS]

Bro one defeat doesnt make a team bad, similarly one victory doesnt make a team best.

Pakistan lost 5-0 to NZ whereas BD couldnt even compete against SA.

In my previous comment i did said “More often than Not” in other words they would lose more than they would win.

Those wins indicates the capability - you can check my post just before CT, one Indian poster got upset when I wrote that the gap between PAK & IND team isn't that big ... he had to come back after 18th.

It's about fixing holes - Ul Haq sent Azhar, Malik, MoHa, nephew in NZ and that team deserved a crashing. Similarly, we posted 194 and lost inside 17 overs .... you fix couple of holes, it gives a total different synergy in a cricket team, which still is an individualistic team game. Put Messi for BD team, instead of 12-0, we'll lose may be by 11-1 against say France - but in cricket just couple of players complimenting a squad changes the whole equation.

Just for the sake of saying, make a team for say WC 2019

Tamim, Babar, FZ
Mushi (WK), Sarfraz*, Shakib, Mahmud
Shadab, Amir, Hasan, a pacer (I take the new kid Afridi)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafiz, Miraz, and 3 from PAK (a pacer, an all-rounder, and a batsman - say Shinqari, Fahim & Umar)

that's a complete different squad than what you see individually from both teams.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Fakhar is surviving with his hand-eye for the time being, let him play couple of years. Soumya also had a great start in career until he was worked out, but time is at his side.

Tamim is better opener than anyone from PAK since Anwar - or you can other way debate that before NZ & SAF tours by respective tams, Babar & Kohli were statistically similar ODI batsmen ..... may be Kohli slightly better.

Kohli slightly better than Babar, man u should be kidding King Kohli is miles ahead of every batsman on earth now

 

[CanadianG00se]

Those wins indicates the capability - you can check my post just before CT, one Indian poster got upset when I wrote that the gap between PAK & IND team isn't that big ... he had to come back after 18th.

It's about fixing holes - Ul Haq sent Azhar, Malik, MoHa, nephew in NZ and that team deserved a crashing. Similarly, we posted 194 and lost inside 17 overs .... you fix couple of holes, it gives a total different synergy in a cricket team, which still is an individualistic team game. Put Messi for BD team, instead of 12-0, we'll lose may be by 11-1 against say France - but in cricket just couple of players complimenting a squad changes the whole equation.

Just for the sake of saying, make a team for say WC 2019

Tamim, Babar, FZ
Mushi (WK), Sarfraz*, Shakib, Mahmud
Shadab, Amir, Hasan, a pacer (I take the new kid Afridi)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafiz, Miraz, and 3 from PAK (a pacer, an all-rounder, and a batsman - say Shinqari, Fahim & Umar)

that's a complete different squad than what you see individually from both teams.

Indian team in CT was filled with passengers

Yuvi
Dhoni
Ash
Jaddu (Darter)
Jadhav
Despite that we reached finals says that we do bring our A games in tournament.

Currently we have two spots that are occupied by Tailender Keeper, and a Hack who played one fluke innings against England. If we somehow sort out these two spots, i believe we have right to claim as best team in World.

Now coming to gap between Pakistan and India in CT then i agree with you that it wasnt much. Pakistan did bold thing by introducing young talents whereas India went with under performing seniors. If we somehow introduce Pant/Gill/ or inform Raina into our team then we will be altogether different beast and we will win 3-2 or better in 5 match series between India and best combined team of Pakistan and BD.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Any comment criticising Pak players becomes incomprehensible to you!

Bangladesh isn't the only team with flaws here. Try to have a look at your own backyard once in a while.

Not sure where I have said Pakistan doesn't have flaws.

 

[Titan24]

Not worthy of mentioning with Amir & Hasan when it comes to the weakness of BD team. Batting isn't the issue and he won't make the team ahead of Tamim. Soumya has a better chance for longer and more successful career.

Lol! Fakhar was recently highest run scorer in NZ bashed bowler of every team in CT17. You are really comparing him to Soumya Sarkar?

 

[Mr.Q]

Not sure where I have said Pakistan doesn't have flaws.

I was talking about the 'mental toughness' displayed by Fakhar so far in his career and the 'universe of a difference' in talent between him and Soumya Sarkar. You're really stretching it quite a bit with statements like that.

 

[Titan24]

With current bowling attack, BD is no threat in any big tournament. Might cause an upset or two.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Lol! Fakhar was recently highest run scorer in NZ bashed bowler of every team in CT17. You are really comparing him to Soumya Sarkar?

Yea, really over the top, comparing Saumya to Fakhar, Sabbir to Pandya

 

[Usman Chadda]

I was talking about the 'mental toughness' displayed by Fakhar so far in his career and the 'universe of a difference' in talent between him and Soumya Sarkar. You're really stretching it quite a bit with statements like that.

That century in the final where he smashed India around for fun wasn't good enough for you? With all the criticism that Fakhar's batting is a fluke etc etc, he followed it up with very good performances on his first tour of New Zealand. Not the most talented bloke, but his temperament is very good.

Comparisons to Soumya are a joke. Give me even one career defining knock from Soumya in the three years he has played so far, which Fakhar Zaman played in only his fourth ODI.

 

[Mainul]

With current bowling attack, BD is no threat in any big tournament. Might cause an upset or two.

Bangladeshi bowling has become really poor. There mentality has been super minnow mentality.When opposition batsman gets top on them they become wayward indisciplined bunch of bowlers and gets smashed.So does the BD batsmen,put pressure on them and they succumbs to pressure.Hatura's job is so simple,just try to dominate the opposition and they will make way for you.

 

[BlueDoritos]

Yea, really over the top, comparing Saumya to Fakhar, Sabbir to Pandya

Mustafizzur vs Wasim Akram, who's better?

 

[BlueDoritos]

Soumya 'betTer tHan fAkHaR' Sarkar has provided an ideal start to Bangladesh once again, with a 4 ball duck.

 

[BlueDoritos]

Looks like Bangladesh have lost the match inside 3 overs.

 

[Syed1]

Soumya 'betTer tHan fAkHaR' Sarkar has provided an ideal start to Bangladesh once again, with a 4 ball duck.

I see what you did there )

Very smart

 

[saeed5646]

Lol i see alot of emotional posts from bd posters this is so sad to see that they are now comparing pak players with the bd players which were consider far far better than pak players

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

This is a LEGENDARY THREAD

I hope it continues till 2030.

 

[fitCricFan]

Coming to the topic, it’s sick mentality to bump this thread whenever BD is losing - less than a year ago we had 1-1 in 3 formats in SRL, and 7 months back a CT SF - I didn’t read a single praise from usual “critics”.

I think you are missing the point. Amongst the main ICC members, BD is the only team that has been regressing over the past few years instead of improving. Considering that they were elevated to a test playing nation quite a while back and have been accorded games against all countries their performance seems to be limited to a practice match for their opponents.

A couple of good players (primarily batsmen) wont be able to carry the team regardless of individual performance. Bowler's at best are club level performers except maybe Shakib, who btw is towards the end of his career. BD team can only fluke so many wins. They need to demonstrate consistent performances to earn respect of their audience

TBF to associates, ICC should relegate the #7 and #8 teams to associate status if they remain at the bottom for 2/3/4 years and promote the top 2 associates to the full status. That should be motivation enough to keep improving.

 

[MMHS]

I think you are missing the point. Amongst the main ICC members, BD is the only team that has been regressing over the past few years instead of improving. Considering that they were elevated to a test playing nation quite a while back and have been accorded games against all countries their performance seems to be limited to a practice match for their opponents.

A couple of good players (primarily batsmen) wont be able to carry the team regardless of individual performance. Bowler's at best are club level performers except maybe Shakib, who btw is towards the end of his career. BD team can only fluke so many wins. They need to demonstrate consistent performances to earn respect of their audience

TBF to associates, ICC should relegate the #7 and #8 teams to associate status if they remain at the bottom for 2/3/4 years and promote the top 2 associates to the full status. That should be motivation enough to keep improving.

Complete nonsense - you are picking just the moment to troll here since we have lost at home to SRL. Check post #488 and come back to talk about regressing. That 2014-15 period was exceptional height - hardly that can be matched consistently; for a record no team ever had covered 25+ ranking points in 10 months period.

Respect is something that is earned, at the same time someone has to know how to respect. It'll be childish for me to copy from 1st 2 days of BD-AUS Dhaka Test, and same trolls didn't visit BD thread for next few weeks.

Coming to the relegation part, there are actually 12 Test teams now, so I guess you are talking about ODI here - which again exposes the sick mentality. Since PAK is 6th now, you are taking a cut off of 7th, for over 2 years PAK was roaming around 8th & 9th; I didn't see your idea then, though you are here since March 2016.

 

[MMHS]

Lol! Fakhar was recently highest run scorer in NZ bashed bowler of every team in CT17. You are really comparing him to Soumya Sarkar?

For first 10-12 games SS had a stats like 50/100 with a MoS against SAF. Let FZ play for couple of years first.

 

[Mr.Q]

1)That century in the final where he smashed India around for fun wasn't good enough for you? 2)With all the criticism that Fakhar's batting is a fluke etc etc, he followed it up with very good performances on his first tour of New Zealand. Not the most talented bloke, but 3)his temperament is very good.

Comparisons to Soumya are a joke. Give me even one career defining knock from Soumya in the three years he has played so far, which Fakhar Zaman played in only his fourth ODI.

Let's not make this a Fakhar Zaman thread. I'll answer your question before I put the discussion back on track.

1)To be honest, no! It was a shut your eyes and whack the ball kinda innings. That was the only way he could have won that game for Pakistan and it came off. It wasn't a fluke or anything but I didn't see any 'universe of a difference' talent or temperament on display. It was never a measured or well planned innings to take context into consideration either in case that's the angle you're looking at.

Never wanted to compare Soumya and Fakhar. Just wanted to point out you're taking hyperbole to the next level just to belittle the Bangladeshi.

2)Talking about the NZ tour, even the guy you want to kick out of the team Mohammad Hafeez played well there. I don't remember him scoring any centuries either.

3)A batsman with good temperament usually scores big and gets his team across the line. You are mistaking a carefree batting style for temperament.
For me it'll always be Babar >>> Haris > Fakhar.
-------------------------------------

Back to the topic.
Banter and even heated discussions sometimes keep things interesting but somewhere somehow the line has been crossed here I feel. I myself am of the opinion that Bangladesh is still a minnow side, although I would use the word second tier. But this thread has been used (or rather abused) to make fun of and belittle a team and its players. I think it's a bad thing to do. Don't think many Bangladeshis will accept people calling their team 'minnows'. That's how people are. It's sad that I have to tell this to the masters of denial .

And nobody is going to compare the Pakistani team with the Bangladeshi team just because they're next to each other in a ranking table somewhere. The guys that keep posting here to 'prove' again and again that Bangladesh is a minnow team are only showing their insecurity. Come on guys.

 

[DeadBall]

Let's not make this a Fakhar Zaman thread. I'll answer your question before I put the discussion back on track.

1)To be honest, no! It was a shut your eyes and whack the ball kinda innings. That was the only way he could have won that game for Pakistan and it came off. It wasn't a fluke or anything but I didn't see any 'universe of a difference' talent or temperament on display. It was never a measured or well planned innings to take context into consideration either in case that's the angle you're looking at.

Never wanted to compare Soumya and Fakhar. Just wanted to point out you're taking hyperbole to the next level just to belittle the Bangladeshi.

2)Talking about the NZ tour, even the guy you want to kick out of the team Mohammad Hafeez played well there. I don't remember him scoring any centuries either.

3)A batsman with good temperament usually scores big and gets his team across the line. You are mistaking a carefree batting style for temperament.
For me it'll always be Babar >>> Haris > Fakhar.
-------------------------------------

Back to the topic.
Banter and even heated discussions sometimes keep things interesting but somewhere somehow the line has been crossed here I feel. I myself am of the opinion that Bangladesh is still a minnow side, although I would use the word second tier. But this thread has been used (or rather abused) to make fun of and belittle a team and its players. I think it's a bad thing to do. Don't think many Bangladeshis will accept people calling their team 'minnows'. That's how people are. It's sad that I have to tell this to the masters of denial .

And nobody is going to compare the Pakistani team with the Bangladeshi team just because they're next to each other in a ranking table somewhere. The guys that keep posting here to 'prove' again and again that Bangladesh is a minnow team are only showing their insecurity. Come on guys.

Agree with most of your post however regarding point 2, Hafeez's runs were selfish ones and one should not just go by statistics and regarding point 3 Babar hasn't shown temperament against anyone apart from WI and SL and the only century against a top side was a selfish match losing one against Aus.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

You gotta feel sorry for BD fans. Every time they lose they get mocked on this forum, but I guess it's their own fault as after any victory they start flying and lose all humility.

 

[shokz1408]

It's good to see Sri Lanka on the up again, world cricket needs a good sri lankan team. I think Sri Lanka will soon enough cross Bangladesh in the ODI rankings and Bangladesh will not be as good at home as they have shown over the years. I believe they can potentially beat afghan, ireland, zimbabwe and windies (though lose some too), however only beat the top 7 teams every now and then, nothing consistently however. I guess they'll never be as bad as they were many years ago where it was such a shock if bangla won, their once in a blue moon win over a top team. However, in reality they'll also probably never be better than where they currently stand in their odi ranking.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It's good to see Sri Lanka on the up again, world cricket needs a good sri lankan team. I think Sri Lanka will soon enough cross Bangladesh in the ODI rankings and Bangladesh will not be as good at home as they have shown over the years. I believe they can potentially beat afghan, ireland, zimbabwe and windies (though lose some too), however only beat the top 7 teams every now and then, nothing consistently however. I guess they'll never be as bad as they were many years ago where it was such a shock if bangla won, their once in a blue moon win over a top team. However, in reality they'll also probably never be better than where they currently stand in their odi ranking.

They don't have decent domestic structure. It is still school system. So their transition will take a while. They have already come this far. Bangladesh should take a leaf out SL's book and learn a thing or two about how to become relevant in the international scene again. They got absolutely canned by India. Everyone thought they were worse than BD. Boy did they come back or what. They did okay in India. They beat Pakistan. They have beaten BD.

 

[giri26]

This series has been a huge set back for Bangladesh, especially at home. They had made a good progress at home but have let that all slip with the performance in this series. Not winning in any format against a SL team who are still trying to rebuild does not augur well for BD cricket. SL on the other hand should be extremely happy. They won the test series in UAE, beat BD in all formats. Their cricket seems to be on the upward curve, which is nice to see.

 

[Titan24]

For first 10-12 games SS had a stats like 50/100 with a MoS against SAF. Let FZ play for couple of years first.

Performing in a series is different than world tournament where you play different opposition in every match. The confidence Fakhar has got after CT17 is gonna take him miles if he remains working hard.

Peolple were saying he will struggle in NZ. Didnt seem like it

Soumya (not comparing him to Fakhar, you just cant) on the other hand needs to sort his technical issues. If you are struggling with footwork in subcontinental conditions, there is something really wrong with your technique. He has talent but its not gonna work in international cricket if he doesnt improves.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

It's good to see Sri Lanka on the up again, world cricket needs a good sri lankan team. I think Sri Lanka will soon enough cross Bangladesh in the ODI rankings and Bangladesh will not be as good at home as they have shown over the years. I believe they can potentially beat afghan, ireland, zimbabwe and windies (though lose some too), however only beat the top 7 teams every now and then, nothing consistently however. I guess they'll never be as bad as they were many years ago where it was such a shock if bangla won, their once in a blue moon win over a top team. However, in reality they'll also probably never be better than where they currently stand in their odi ranking.

The truth is the last sentence perfectly applies to Pakistan..they are currently 6th rank after battling between 7-9 for a while..and sadly that may be their best rank in for some years ...

 

[Usman Chadda]

They don't have decent domestic structure. It is still school system. So their transition will take a while. They have already come this far. Bangladesh should take a leaf out SL's book and learn a thing or two about how to become relevant in the international scene again. They got absolutely canned by India. Everyone thought they were worse than BD. Boy did they come back or what. They did okay in India. They beat Pakistan. They have beaten BD.

Uh they beat Pakistan in Tests. Credit to them, outplayed us in all departments. Although first test should have been won by Pakistan.

But Lanka got absolutely torn to shreds in the LOI leg of the tour. Literally torn to shreds. When you say 'they beat Pakistan and they have beaten BD', it seems like Pakistan also got clean-sweeped like BD. BD got thrashed at home in every format. Sri Lanka was ruthless here.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Uh they beat Pakistan in Tests. Credit to them, outplayed us in all departments. Although first test should have been won by Pakistan.

But Lanka got absolutely torn to shreds in the LOI leg of the tour. Literally torn to shreds. When you say 'they beat Pakistan and they have beaten BD', it seems like Pakistan also got clean-sweeped like BD. BD got thrashed at home in every format. Sri Lanka was ruthless here.

Yes Test series which is hader thing to do for a transition team. Competed well with India in India.

 

[shokz1408]

The truth is the last sentence perfectly applies to Pakistan..they are currently 6th rank after battling between 7-9 for a while..and sadly that may be their best rank in for some years ...

Unfortunately I tend to agree, with such a top/middle order we aren't going places, at best we'll be a tournament team.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

getting caned at home by a weak team is sure sign of a minnow.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Unfortunately I tend to agree, with such a top/middle order we aren't going places, at best we'll be a tournament team.

Tournament team... repeating CT success will not be easy next time, need to improve overall team balance. India with 5-1 success in SA; is still not ready for next WC.

Likewise Pak ODI team has too many gaps; which needs to be pluged before WC'19.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Good time to bump this

Such a shame even AFG and IRE will surpass this overrated Bangla side

WORST DECISION in the history of ICC to give BD Test status and the PCB is equally responsible for supporting them.

 

[Mamoon]

No need of taking your frustrations out on Bangladesh. We should bash our team for their ineptness, not Bangladesh.

They have all the ingredients to overtake Pakistan across all formats in the next decade or so. They have closed the gap considerably.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

No need of taking your frustrations out on Bangladesh. We should bash our team for their ineptness, not Bangladesh.

They have all the ingredients to overtake Pakistan across all formats in the next decade or so. They have closed the gap considerably.

Yes like they have been doing so for the last 20 years.

Bachpan sai sun raha hu BD Pakistan ko cross karega

On a serious note wake me up when BD is mature enough that ENG AUS IND and PAK invite them for a full series

 

[ArsenalFC]

No need of taking your frustrations out on Bangladesh. We should bash our team for their ineptness, not Bangladesh.

They have all the ingredients to overtake Pakistan across all formats in the next decade or so. They have closed the gap considerably.

Lol Afghanistan are perhaps only a matter of a few years away of overtaking Bangladesh in both formats of LOIs. Don't forget they're already a superior T20I side. So as for "closed the gap", if you call going from participating to being continuously destroyed 20 years later then I must be watching a different sport.

Afghanistan is the team that could threaten to overtake Pakistan in LOIs in the next 10-15 years.

Bangladesh are miles behind technically and mentally.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

WORST DECISION in the history of ICC to give BD Test status and the PCB is equally responsible for supporting them.

BD's Test rank is the same as AFG's T20 rank. Asides from that, PCB doesn't have the juice to make or break anyone's application for Test status. PCB as an organization are more adept at releasing asinine media statements than exerting any influence in an ICC boardroom.

 

[The_Odd_One]

No need of taking your frustrations out on Bangladesh. We should bash our team for their ineptness, not Bangladesh.

They have all the ingredients to overtake Pakistan across all formats in the next decade or so. They have closed the gap considerably.

No, they don't. They have no decent fast bowlers.

 

[Varun]

BD's Test rank is the same as AFG's T20 rank.

What does that even mean, and how is it even relevant?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Another gem... Fakhar is not good enough to get into Bangladesh team... has to go in top 3

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] keep on with the embarrassing claims...

1. Pakistan will be forced to play likes of Nepal in a few years (claim made few years ago, so that time should be now)
2. Latif is the favourite son of Karachi and not Miandad.
3. Fakhar can't get into Bangladesh team.

Bravo mate... your team is going down the drain but yet you have some nerve to chest thump ...... bravo!

 

[RainMan_]

Good time to bump this

Such a shame even AFG and IRE will surpass this overrated Bangla side

WORST DECISION in the history of ICC to give BD Test status and the PCB is equally responsible for supporting them.

It's high time for u to understand the difference between different formats. Its hilarious to see the way u r Bangladesh's test status based on their t20 performance. Lol,U r hilarious my friend.

Nobody takes international t20 seriously unless its W20 . Its a pointless format where most teams try out different players, nothing more than that.

 

[j_kazmi]

People are too bitter here.

Maybe Afghanistan is actually a good team? They’ve given every big team a run for their money in the last t20 WC, and they even beat the West Indies.

On their day I think Afghanistan could beat quite a few of the big teams.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

It's high time for u to understand the difference between different formats. Its hilarious to see the way u r Bangladesh's test status based on their t20 performance. Lol,U r hilarious my friend.

Nobody takes international t20 seriously unless its W20 . Its a pointless format where most teams try out different players, nothing more than that.

Is there any format you guys take seriously?

Sakib couldn't be bothered to play tests...