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Well in terms of seniority there is no harm in putting Shami over Bumrah.
I will add Zaheer Khan too in that list.
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Best fast-bowlers from Asia in ODI history
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I will add Zaheer Khan too in that list.
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Waqar Younis
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Top 3 pacers in WC from Asia.
Shami has 55 WC wickets at avg of 14 and ER 5.1
Bumrah has 38 wickets at avg of 19 and ER 4.2 [ era of 350 scores ]
Wasim has 55 wickets at avg of 24 and ER 4
Bumrah stands out with ER near 4 in an era where 350 is getting scored in 50 overs.
Wasim was very skillful and even he went for 4 runs per over a few decades ago when 230-240 used to be a good score.
The top 3 pacers from Asia in WC for sure.
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Shami just stands out with his average in the lower teens in WC.
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Oman’s star pacer Bilal Khan created history on Wednesday (July 24) by becoming the fastest fast bowler in the world to take 100 wickets in ODIs. The 37-year-old Peshawar-born left-arm medium pacer achieved the milestone during the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup League 2 match played between Oman and Namibia in Dundee.
Fastest pacers to take 100 wickets in ODIs:
Bilal Khan (Oman) – 49 Innings
Shaheen Shah Afridi (Pakistan) – 51 Innings
Mitchell Starc (Australia) – 52 Innings
Shane Bond (New Zealand) -54 Innings
Mustafizur Rahman (Bangladesh) – 54 Innings
Fastest pacers to take 100 wickets in ODIs:
Bilal Khan (Oman) – 49 Innings
Shaheen Shah Afridi (Pakistan) – 51 Innings
Mitchell Starc (Australia) – 52 Innings
Shane Bond (New Zealand) -54 Innings
Mustafizur Rahman (Bangladesh) – 54 Innings
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Wasim Akran
Waqar Younis
Shoaib Akhtar
name any better trio than this one!
Waqar Younis
Shoaib Akhtar
name any better trio than this one!
Yea it's incredible. Top 5 odi bowler of all time tbh.
When pakistan cricket used to roar. Now these no name wanna be problem causer super stars with zero performance runs their mouth more than than anything these days.
Unbiased-Fan
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Asif?? Why?
Unbiased-Fan
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From India
Bumrah
Shami
Srinath
Kapil
Zaheer
From Pakistan
Wasim
Waqar
Akhtar
Shaheen
Razzaq
From Srilanka
Malinga
Vaas
Kulasekara
Maharoof
Wickramasinghe
From Bangladesh
Mustafizur
Mortaza
Taskin
Rubel
Shofiul
Bumrah
Shami
Srinath
Kapil
Zaheer
From Pakistan
Wasim
Waqar
Akhtar
Shaheen
Razzaq
From Srilanka
Malinga
Vaas
Kulasekara
Maharoof
Wickramasinghe
From Bangladesh
Mustafizur
Mortaza
Taskin
Rubel
Shofiul
Ab Fan
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Top 10( in no particular order):-
Wasim
Shami
Waqar
Bumrah
Vaas
Malinga
Kapil
Imran
Zak
Srinath
Umar Gul and Bhuvi misses out. Amir would get in T20I side, not ODI one. Asif won't get in any white ball side.
Wasim
Shami
Waqar
Bumrah
Vaas
Malinga
Kapil
Imran
Zak
Srinath
Umar Gul and Bhuvi misses out. Amir would get in T20I side, not ODI one. Asif won't get in any white ball side.
Bumrah shami have buried waqar and wasim tbh in odi.
Mamoon
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Is this another thread where we are supposed to make Bumrah our father and make him sit on our head?
The answer to this question is Wasim and it is not even close.
Wasim’s 92 World Cup final performance is bigger than Bumrah’s entire ODI career.
The answer to this question is Wasim and it is not even close.
Wasim’s 92 World Cup final performance is bigger than Bumrah’s entire ODI career.
sweep_shot
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Vikram1989
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Akram
Bumrah
Malinga
Shami
Waqar
Zahir
Imran
Kapil
Akthar
Srinath
Bumrah
Malinga
Shami
Waqar
Zahir
Imran
Kapil
Akthar
Srinath
Local.Dada
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Pretty much agree. Need to accommodate Vaas somewhere there. He was a gun odi bowler.
By the time his career ends, he would be sitting on his head tbh.
But yes wasim is top 2 for now.
Vikram1989
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Yeah it was like a tie for the last spot.but vaas never ran through a good team even in sena conditions.
Vikram1989
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Yeah I agree if its wc alone.but from overall perspective malinga was much more in the top bracket all the time.Shami took quite a time to take off. Malinga was the only quality fast bowler in srilanka pace department and has done the job all alone.
mominsaigol
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Bumrah isn't going to reach that. He's already 30, injury prone and his action isn't one that speaks longetivity, Dudes back will give out.
He's not the type to have James Anderson level longetovity, By 35 he won't be as effective as he is now.
Secondly even if I'm proven wrong, Bumrah has only dominated since 2023, Prior to that he wasnt that good from 2017-2021. Yes he was a good bowler but he was mostly seen as a test specialist and in whiteball just a guy with a funny action. I watched his 2017-2021 performance and he's just alright in whiteball nothing special. He was only gun in test
It was in 2023 where he became an allformat gun.
It's only been 1.5 years of his allformat dominance, atleast wait a bit.
Secondly Bumrah isn't as good as people make him out to be. Against Bangladesh he was expensive but took wickets frequently, In the final of 2023 he had no answer to Trabis head and Labu was able to block him just fine.
Bumrah's strength is his immaculate line and length and because of his consistency his er is great and on Paper he seems to be superior to wasim because wasim due to his prolonged games lost consistency in later years. But wasim has infinite more variations and onsong is a bloody nightmare to handle, No batter can settle with him, Whereas someone like 2015 prime steve smith or Lara in test wouldn't struggle too much Against Bumrah because they have a solid defense to handle Him.
Not really though. Shami average even in odi is the best amongst all Asian bowlers in sena countries. He is goof everywhere in odi. Plus he dominated in 3 world cups.
Mamoon
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I don’t know whose head he will be sitting on because he has just one shot left at surpassing Wasim in ODIs.
The 2027 WC will be his last, or at least the last during his prime. If he doesn’t bowl India to World Cup glory, this will be a non- comparison.
I can go through many occasions where wasim got dismantled by average teams as well. Like Zimbabwe etc. Even lanka.
In tests.
Even in odi, rules were different back then. Give bumrah an old ball that reverse and he would average 15 in 90s era. In odi that is.
Wasim wasn't that great in tests. He averaged 27 in sena. That too in an era that was ideal for fast bowlers. Lot of pace friendly pitches.
I only put wasim above cause of longevity. In terms of ability bumrah is the clear winner in all formats tbh.
Mamoon
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A great ODI bowler who was won his country an ODI World Cup will always be better than a great ODI bowler who did not win his country an ODI World Cup.
Bumrah can never be better than Wasim in ODIs unless he wins India an ODI World Cup.
Bumrah can never be better than Wasim in ODIs unless he wins India an ODI World Cup.
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Not saying Bumrah is better than Wasim, but if winning ODI WC makes a bowler better then winning tests in Eng, SA, Aus with 2 test series in Aus makes Bumrah far ahead than Wasim in test right now.
Neither Wasim is ahead in ODI due to winning one match in WC nor Bumrah is ahead in test due to winning more matches in Eng, SA, Aus etc. Wasim is ahead right now simply due to longevity.
Mamoon
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No issues with people rating Bumrah ahead in Tests, but I have an issue with people doing that in ODIs when Wasim won his country an ODI WC with a man of the match performance in the final.
World Cup doesn’t make or break a career, but when you are comparable two great careers it is a difference maker.
If Bumrah is that good in ODIs he should win a World Cup for his country. No one is stopping him.
mominsaigol
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First of neither Zimbabwe or Sri lanka were average teams in Wasim's era.
That Zimbabwe that you call average would absolutely murk current Pakistan, Current Sri lanka and pretty much any Asian team excluding India, Similarly they'd cause alot of trouble to other teams as well. I don't think you know how good players like Andy flower are. None of the current crop excluding the top teams compare.
As for sri lanka, Calling that sri lanka team average is hilarious considering their winners of 1996 and reamined a top tier side.
I've seen the 2, and bumrah doesn't compare to Wasim. Bumrah plays with much much easier teams. The likes of current Zimbabwe, Sri lanka, SA, and many others don't even compare, even Australia in its current state is quickly becoming Travis head or Bust. England has also gone down the drain.
Bumrah got bashed and butchered by 2019 England which was the strongest enEngland odi side of all time, Similarly 2017 pakistan which would ironically lose to The sri lanka that you mentioned very very badly bashed bumrah into next week.
In the finals an average player like Labu handled him just fine.
Theirs a massive massive gap between the old sides and the new.
2023-2024 England has fizzled out and they peaked from 2016-2020. Current Australia is a joke compared yo their 2015 selves let alone their 2003 selves. Every other Asian team excluding Afghanistan which wasn't present during that era are much much weaker now, Minus India who's bowling is superior but batting is inferior due to Old legends fizzling out and current players not peaking. SSame with SA which is slightly reeling due to their quota system which causes an unbalance with qdk And bavuma/ reeza hendricks batting side by side.
NZ isn't that strong anymore and their bowling peaked in 2019, Their current team is weaker now, 2023 was NZ's final batting peak and they still scored high against India and bumrah wasn't a big deal, however 399 was something they weren't gonna chase regardless.
Almost every side from 2015-2019 including Australia spanks their current selves. India is the only one who's 2023 self is stronger them 2015-2019?
Mamoon
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No one asked Bumrah to get violated by England in 2019, a match that would have killed off England and probably helped India win the World Cup but he failed.
No one asked Bumrah to take only 1 wicket vs NZ in the semifinal. He could have ran through them like Boult ran through India.
No one asked Bumrah to fail vs Head and Labuschagne last November.
Also, last but not least, no one asked him to bowl a no-ball vs Pakistan in the CT Final that triggered the biggest thrashing ever in an ICC Final.
Even winning a CT would somehow compensate for not winning a WC but so far, Bumrah has won absolutely nothing of note in ODI cricket.
You cannot be a better ODI bowler than Wasim by winning bilateral ODI series ONLY in an era where bilateral ODI series have very little significance.
Bilateral ODI series were a huge deal during Wasim’s career but now.
So Bumrah has to shots at redemption: the CT 2025 and the WC 2027. If he ends up empty-handed, Indian fans can put him down from their heads.
No one asked Bumrah to take only 1 wicket vs NZ in the semifinal. He could have ran through them like Boult ran through India.
No one asked Bumrah to fail vs Head and Labuschagne last November.
Also, last but not least, no one asked him to bowl a no-ball vs Pakistan in the CT Final that triggered the biggest thrashing ever in an ICC Final.
Even winning a CT would somehow compensate for not winning a WC but so far, Bumrah has won absolutely nothing of note in ODI cricket.
You cannot be a better ODI bowler than Wasim by winning bilateral ODI series ONLY in an era where bilateral ODI series have very little significance.
Bilateral ODI series were a huge deal during Wasim’s career but now.
So Bumrah has to shots at redemption: the CT 2025 and the WC 2027. If he ends up empty-handed, Indian fans can put him down from their heads.
Devadwal
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Munaf is better than Waqar as he won a world cup for india .
Mamoon
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Post 2010, bilateral ODI cricket has become the most irrelevant format of the game. Therefore, it is impossible for any cricketer in this era to become an ODI great without winning the World Cup or the CT. As simple as that.
Mamoon
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Maybe you should get your eyesight checked or take some English classes. I said:Munaf is better than Waqar as he won a world cup for india .
“A great ODI bowler who was won his country an ODI World Cup will always be better than a great ODI bowler who did not win his country an ODI World Cup.”
Munaf Patel doesn’t qualify as a great ODI bowler. Wasim and Bumrah do, hence the World Cup is the difference-maker.
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Agree to disagree. Both have skills to use new ball, old ball, swing, seam both ways, yorkers, bouncers etc. I will put Wasim ahead right now in both formats and simply due to longevity.
Devadwal
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If same logic applied for test matches than Bumrah is better than any Pakistan test bowlers Because he won back to back test series for india in Australia.
mominsaigol
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Genuinely speaking, @Mamoon Has a point, irrespective of what his intentions are, I don't see what's wrong with what he's claiming.Munaf is better than Waqar as he won a world cup for india .
Bumrah's greatest achievement in whiteball so far is 2024 final where he pulled off the impossible however it comes against South Africa which is a choke worthy team that has flunked Nedtherlands, almost flunked Nepal and is so god damn inconsistent they nearly lost to a crapola bowling attack of Pakistan in 2023 winning by 1 wicket.
Againat top tier teams he was average I'm NZ semi final and really India only won because of their batting as chasing a target of 399 was impossible. He was utterly atrocious against Australia in the final despite the pitch being difficult and it should have been his bowling paradise.
He was horrible in 2017, got murdered by England left and right in 2019.
In whiteball he has been horrible in knockout stages excluding SA which isn't a pretty record given the fact that SA is a team that can lose and botch it against Nepal if their in the mood.
Mamoon
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Both are almost equal in terms of skill, so it is very logical to rate one higher than the other based on World Cup win.
Same goes for why Head is a better ODI opener than de Kock.
India is literally in their transition phase at the moment. This is the weakest version of india post 2015.
When did bumrah got butchered by England lmao.
Did you want me to pull up the great wasims stats vs test teams in sena?
Are we talking about odi or tests here. If it's test then there is no comparison at all. Bumrah is better than wasim in all facets of the game. Longevity doesn't mean much if you are just going to keep losing lol.
In odi ok sure. But wasim played in an era where only one ball was used. Reverse swing was available with old ball. He would literally mutilate the teams wasim played against if he was allowed to play with old revesing balls. He would average 15.
It is literally the hardest era for bowlers in odi. Game is geared towards batsmen. You can't have it both ways.
Bowling is much much much more difficult in odi now. Wasim would struggle to average sub 25 in current odi format.
Boundaries are shorter, 2 new balls, restricted fielding, heavier bats, better protective gearing, flat pitches lol.
And no Zimbabwe etc were all fodder teams. Sri Lanka was good in 1996 sure. On sub continent pitches. They still struggled overseas though. Not a complete side.
When the game was semi professional these average teams looked elite. Moment the game got professional, drs was introduced and stricter rules were imposed, all these weaker teams got exposed and declined.
That's why you see only big 3 at the top and SA mostly. Nz perform randomly well in specific conditions that's about it. In swing friendly conditions.
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I think majority of posters will rate Wasim ahead in test despite Bumrah having more imapct in his short career agasint strong teams in their den. In test cricket that's the ultimate. Reason will be longevity.
I will personally rate Wasim ahead in both formats right now for the same reason.
No one cares about bilateral. Now or not even back then.
No one. Bilaterals are simply just testers. To find out combinations for the real cup.
But bumrah bowled well bs England actually. It was an uber flat pitch in 2019. With Englund rigging boundaries to aid their hacks. Everyone else went for runs but he was still hard to hit. Bairstow was dropped early too.
On flat pitches such as those ones wasim would have struggled badly tbh.
Devadwal
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All the peoples knows that Wasim is one of the best bowlers ever to played cricket .
But at the same time bumrah is entering in the same catagory but some people don't want to accept that because he is from india
Longevity like Anderson to end up losing most games is meaningless.
Absolutely pointless.
A career with huge highs and more wins overall is way better than a career that with mediocre wins and just pure longevity.
What did all that longevity help Anderson achieve? He still averages 29 30 away from home in all of the top nations. Or even more. No major wins apart from a couple of years where they did well as a team.
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Both are almost equal in terms of skill, so it is very logical to rate one higher based on doing it for longer. That's the way I see it in both formats.
How they perform is in their hands and team winning is not totally in their hands. Sure, they do have influence. Wasim was a huge factor in Pakistan winning WC. Bumrah has been a huge factor in India winning away. But they are still a factor.
What better? He is already better in tests. In t20 we can't compare as wasim dint play t20
Odi is the only wasim is ahead for now.
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Longevity with similar output. Anderson does not have a similar output.
Now you can certainly debate that Bumrah's impact is better in test than Wasim but over all I will have Wasim over Bumrah for now in both formats.
If you all are only talking about impact in both formats then yes, Wasim is clearly ahead in ODI due to winning ODI WC and Bumrah is clearly ahead in test due to bowling more match changing spells in Aus, SA, Eng etc. In T20, no bowler is better than Bumrah in impact due to harder to hit than pretty much any pacer.
mominsaigol
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That is not true. 2023 India was far far superior to 2019 India, 2024 India is weaker 100%, however other sides have fizzled out.
Bumrah got spanked in 2019, and was impactless. He's lucky that by the death overs shami had dome his job taking wickets which Is why his final eco of 4 and only conceding 44 rums saved him face whereas other bowlers who were bowling the middle overs kept getting spanked while Bumrah could save face by getting bullied for 5 overs and then in the final 5 deal with the lower order.
In test idrc, but in odi theirs a major gap between the 2 even if you discard the one ball thing, As a new ball bowler wasim is far far ahead of Bumrah. And no Zimbabwe was not a fodder team. That version of Zimbabwe is a million times superior to current Zimbabwe.
You can't have it both ways, It's an objective fact that all sides of the past are a million times stronger then their modern era selves with the sole exception being
A) 2015 Australia which is debatable amd even then I think classic is stronger.
B) 2019 Emgland which is superior to Every single english side in history
C) 2023 India which is the strongest odi version of India as its the only team with a complete batting and bowling package while the strongest Indian batting team of the 90's has zero bowlers.
Bumrah was ordinary against New Zealand in the semi final, India won due to the high total.
The only top tier side Bumrah has ever faced is 2019 England where he's ordinary againat? In odi Travis head has his number and 2015 Australia wouldn't have an issue dispatching him since they have batters superior to Travis in smith who was I'm prime at the time and Warner who was at peak?
Even in test he's dealing with average teams like bangaldesh and others? He's not dealing with what wasim dealt with. It's a massive massive gap and ease of teams that bumrah has to deal with compared to what wasim dealt with.
Mamoon
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Lmao who said? Past is stronger. Bs.
Nonsense. It's all nostalgia.
Objectively not true.
It was just a semi pro era. That's why the 2 Ws could dominate somewhat. E en then they struggled in tests.
You cant claim that bowlers were better back then when they played in an era where it was more bowker friendly.
2 Ws would struggle badly in modern era with the current rules etc. Not so much wasim but definitely the overrated wsqar.
Million times lmao. Yea right.
Most Asian sides weren't even fit back then. Semi pro era. Moment game got professional, all the regular suspects declined.
Wasim is a great bowler but i don't feel he is unplayable. I have seen him play at his best and in modern era, he would definitely have major issues on flat pitches. Especially vs modern batsmen who won't give any respect to someone just cause they have a huge name. They will take him on with no issues.
True. England dint exactly 'win' the game in the final. Won by some absurd rules which so happend to favour them. Should be an astreix next to the great brit triumph in 2019.
It's ok India won the following year in t20 though.
Australia in finals is something else anyway. No harm in losing yo the goat nation of odi cricket.
mominsaigol
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Which current side is stronger then past?
Sri lanka of the past had the likes of Aravinda, Jaysuria, Sanga and many came after like dilshan, Tharanga, murli and others. They won 1996, and since then have competed? Jaysuria for alot of people is often included as an opener alongside Sachin in an odi 11 due to his impact + bowling ability?
Australia of the past had Mcgrath, They had gilchrist who is their best wicket keeper in history, They had Haydem who in odi is slightly below Warner but in test is hands down superior to Warner, they had Warne and zampa doesn't compare, they had mcgrath, Gillespie and Brett Lee are also superior to every single current aussie bowler excluding cummins who's debatable and prime starc who's gone now?. How does 2024 Australia compare?
How does 2024 SA.compare when past sa had devillers, Kallis, Graeme smith, Steyn and various others? Are you honestly telling me bavuma and hendricks reach that stage? Especially now that quinton is gone?
How does Current west indies compare to classic west indies? Are you honestly going to sit here ans tell me its BS nostalgia to say brian lara is superior to every current wi batter?
Similarly are you honestly sitting here and telling me with a straight face that current Pakistan is not weaker then classic pakistan and it's all blind nostalgia?
Bhaijaan
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My Top 5 :-
1. Mohammad Shami
2. Jasprit Singh Bumrah
3. Wasim Akram
4. Waqar Younis
5. Shoaib Akhtar
1. Mohammad Shami
2. Jasprit Singh Bumrah
3. Wasim Akram
4. Waqar Younis
5. Shoaib Akhtar
cricketjoshila
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cricketjoshila
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Yes, people should simply tamper the ball.
Mamoon
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No one asked India and Australia to lose to England when England were in a do or die situation.
Similarly, no one asked New Zealand to allow England to get back into the game when they were reeling at 86/4.
No one asked Boult to get hit for a six when England needed 15 off 4.
No one asked Boult to concede 15 in the Super Over.
No one asked New Zealand to hit less boundaries than England during their innings.
There is no asterisk attached to England’s triumph. The rules, absurd or not, were the same for both sides.
New Zealand as well as other teams had more than enough opportunities to prevent England from winning the World Cup but they failed to do so.
It is funny to force asterisks when there are none just to make yourself feel better about India bottling the 2023 World Cup after rigging, manipulating and influencing each and every aspect of the World Cup.
It is not okay if you won the T20 World Cup the year after - a T20 World Cup cannot make up for the failure of winning an ODI World Cup at home.
Besides, this generation of England have won two World Cups. This generation of India cannot flex that.
Mamoon
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Not a bad idea, the dwarf in your DP would know about that.
India dint need to tamper with the pitches though. The only pitch that was tampered with apparently was the final for whatever reason. Had India won the toss and batted first the tables would have turned. One off game. Anything can happen.
Rahul dravid was responsible for the pitch tampering. Should have just been a standard flat pitch.
Win is a win. T20 or odi. No one even takes odi seriously these days. It's a dying format.
Anyway England did well to fluke a title in 2019. It was a draw on paper. They won cause they scored more boundaries. What a joke. The inventor of the game has one odi title to show for in their history. It's fine. Even this win wouldn't have happened without imports from overseas.
In the past I would agree odi is greater than t20. Nowadays t20 is obviously more popular. It takes skill out of the game. Any team can win. So I would take the t20 win as it was a great comeback from the odi wc loss.
Hold uo hold up. Again you are conflating formats. Odi or tests?
In odi? He'll no. South Africa post 2019 is the strongest south African side in their history. They would wallop their 2015 version which would kill any of their 90s teams.
Sri Lanka yea sure they are weak
India aus England are all Strong. Aus was stronger in 2000 era I agree but their 2023 version is no slouch. Look at the bowling attack. It's class.
Pakistan is weak yes. West indies is average.
England were always perennial losers. Just cause they exited early in 2023 doesn't mean they were weak. They are still a formidable odi side compared 90s and 2000 era team.
Bangladesh is a much more improved side now.
Back in late 90s to mid 2000 there were maybe 4 quality teams. Australia and south Africa were well above rest.
Then Pakistan and india. West indies declined a lot in 2000 era.
Mid 90s sri lanka were strong. Sri Lanka had a peak again post 2006 to about 2012.
In late 90s it was mostly just 3 quality teams. Mid 90s had 3 as well. India were mediocre then. New Zealand just punched above their weight as usual in 1999 and 2007.
Every era has 3 or 4 quality sides. Not any different right now. Aus india south africa and England are all high quality sides. New Zealand is still a quality team.
mominsaigol
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South Africa post 2019? So for the sake of it I'll assume 2023 world cup then?
Okay
1) Quinton De Kock (Gun player)
2) Bavuma (c) (HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA)
3) Van der dussan( Good)
4) Makram (Good)
5) Klaseen (Spin god)
6) Miller (Good)
7) Jansen (Good allrounder)
8) Rabada (Good nowler)
9) Mahraj (Okayish)
10) Ngidi (Decent)
11) Shamsi (Average)
Overall a good side but it's forced to play with 10 players due to bavuma and it's okayish considering their struggles while chasing against Nedtherlands and pakistan.
Now here's SA of the 2000's
1) Graeme Smith (Gun player who's left foot is above bavuma both as captain and batter)
2) Bootea Dippenear (Quinton is better but this guy is underrated in odi in general)
3) Hershell Gibbs (Miles and Miles superior to Van der dussan, Van der dussan is good and so far he's one of the best no 3's in the world, But I'd like to see Van der dussan play in pressure of chasing, As batting first vs chasing is a different story, Gibbs is a great chaser while dussan full potential only shines batting first)
4) Ab De villers ( Sorry Makram, But de villers is next level, You have to be delusional t argue that makram is at that stage)
5) Kallis (GOAT Allrounder, Klaseem is a spin god yes, but he isn't kallis level not even close, nor does he provide value with bowling)
6) Mark Boucher (Miller is superior, he can have this one)
^^ in this time this was their top 6, The bowling had klusner, Shaun Pollock, Steyn , And many other batters came later such as Amla?
From which Angle excluding Quinton being superior to Mark boucher is current SA superior to you?
This version of SA is a joke considering their playing with 10 players and if they include hendricks then their playing with 9 players haha?
mominsaigol
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2015 Sputh Africa is crap, You're really pushing it by claiming that they'll millywop the past.
Dale steyn in 2015 was a corpse of a bowler. Quinton was nowhere near the batter that he was from 2019-2023, same with Miller, Jp duminy was done and dusted and had no right continuing his career beyond that, Wayne parnell was a total joke.
I'm convinced you have no clue or haven't watched 2015 world cup.
mominsaigol
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2023 Australia's bowling is a total joke. Starc has been a liability for a while now. Australia is simply lucky that he managed to switch on for 2 games in the cup which was semi final and final otherwise he was useless. Just like 2024 india where rohit and kohli happened to come out at the right time, Same happened qith 2023 Australia.
2023 Australia is utter garbage compared to their 2015 and classic self. Steve smith is a passenger and Australia effectively played with 10 batters, their keepers are a joke now compared to classic era.
England was a total joke in 2023 and is average in 2024, Root was useless in odi as he hadn't played for 4 years, Bairstow just returned from injury and was useless now after missing out, not the bairstow from 2019, Roy lost form and brook was trash in the cup as he was drafted in too early for whiteball, The bowling was toothless without Archer and Butler was put of form for that cup and even now he's aging and slowly losing interest in cricket with the birth of his child.
Current Bangladesh is nowhere close to 2011 Bangladesh and 2016 Bangladesh when they were peaking, Shakib is a done corpse now, They have a rise in bowlers only.
You're really pushing and driving a narrative and using nostalgia as a nonsense excuse. I've seen these eras and I'm fully aware of how good these players were and weren't.
Bumrah is a great pacer and the best pacer India has ever had but the problem with india is that due to their population, their hype has always exceeded their players potential.
Sachin went from being the best odi player of his era and top 5 test players of his era to supposedly the almighty untouchable God who turns everything to gold.
Bumrah went from greatest Indian pacer to greatest pacer of all time
Dhoni went from goat captain and Asian beast to somehow best keeper finisher when Bevan and others were clearly better then him and putside asia Dhoni is average
Harbajan went from clear chucker who hid behind full sleeves and wasn't caught in his era same with murli to almighty spin god and goat.
All this pr nonsense when none of these guys would have had it if they weren't born in india and had a 1.4B population backing.
topspin
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Smackdown
cricketjoshila
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Unlike a number of pakistanis who were banned for tampering, Sachin was exonerated.
cricketjoshila
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There has been a massive dip in the performance of pakistani fast bowlers after ICC cracked down on ball tampering.
Wonder why
Wonder why
Have a look at south african squad. They would wallop any of their past teams. They reached the semis too and were unlucky to make finals. I have watched since the 90s and no it's not close. Their 2023 team was really good too. Infact better than 2015 and 90s teams.
Btw dale steyn averaged 21 in 2015. He was far from a corpse. He was a corpse only in 2017 2018
All 90s have is big names. Again it's all nostalgia. Objectively if you look at performances, 2023 team was superior. Much better.
Rabada jansen and don't forget the speedster beauty nortje plus shamsi is a great attack. They dismantled every team except india and we're unlucky to lose in the semis vs australia.
Only bavuma and hendricks are the weak players. Rest are all high quality for the modern game.
And those bowlers in 90s would struggle vs modern batsmen due to the rules and flatvpitches. Seen donald get whacked into oblivion plenty of times.
Lol at Graeme smith for odi haha
Even kalis was not great in odi. Klusenar yes was a gun player.
Every era had 3 or 4 high quality sides. You can say the same for each era.
In 1999 waqar was declining. Shoaib was a newbie.
India were rubbish at that time. So we're every other team barring 3 odd teams.
Nz just pushed above what their limits as per usual.
1999 side had reiffel and flemming. Fat lard Lehman and moody who wasn't great in odi.
This isn't a scart sides they even fluked a win in semis.
In 2003 india over performed and made finals. Freaking Kenya of all teams made semis. Most other teams including Pakistan were trash. Pakistan bowlers were all declining. Australia exploited the good semi pro era. But cause they have no pressure in cricket, they are able to deal with it comfortably and still smash teams. They are the goat cricket team in odi.
England were laughable back then. Just pitiful.
Lanka had a mediocre side in 2003.
mominsaigol
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All ill say is you're wrong, But because you're hell bent on playing nostalgia card, I give up, No point in trying to convince some people.
Just like deadly venom and gazza have convinced themselves that chacha is a goat player you're already adamant and have made up your mind
Yeppp. Since drs and neutral umpiring. Also since game became professional.
Since game became professional post ipl only Australia, india and SA have been on top in tests. In odi it's the same except we swap SA for England instead. Flukes happen here and there like 2017 in some meaningless tourney but not wc for odi. Yes t20 takes the skill out of the window. Actually t20 is a lot more unpredictable. West indies india and England are the top teams in t20 history.
Agree to disagree. Chacha is fodder I agree.
90s SA team is very good but for me I feel 2023 is the better side. They are a complete package barring 2 positions. Bowling attack is what makes the difference.
mominsaigol
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2023-2024 SA is the most inconsistent side in history lol.
This is a team that can smack Australia before a world cup and in group stages to struggle tooth and nail against Nepal, Lose to Nedtherlands and struggle life and limb against Pakistan even though Pakistan had the worst bowling attack in the tournament lol where everyone was smacking it left and right.
Pakistan was ironically very very lucky that Sri Lanka was batting first and not chasing and fakhar managed to do what he did against NZ otherwise only Bangladesh and Nedtherlands games would be won and pakistan would be at the bottom of the table.
sweep_shot
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Dude, SA 90's team was a heavyweight team. They were beating everyone except for Australia.
2019 SA team lost to BD in 2019 WC. LOL. These same guys also dropped an ODI series to Bangladesh at home. They weren't that great.
Even 2023 team was not as good as their 90's team. Their 90's team won the CT 1998.
Did I mention 2019 team????
I said 2023 team. They dismantled every team except india and Aussies fluked a win in the semis.
2015 and 2023 SA teams were gun teams. This guy momin reckons steyn was phhiinnnished in 2015. He averaged 21 that year.
sweep_shot
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2023 team wasn't better than 90's team.
90's team won the CT 1998 and reached semi-final of 1999 WC. They faced far better opponents in the 90's.
2023 SA had it easy in 2023 WC.
Also, Aussie win in 2023 semi wasn't a fluke. It was a good game. Aussies were always favorites to win.
CrIc_Mystique
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On a slightly different tack,
ImRan completely remodelled his action from his debut first test and probably around 1976 - it takes tons of courage to do this, along with hard work etc. Very few might have done this.
Secondly, i believe he is the only guy in history who might have added more than 10 kmph to his pace from his debut.
I cant recall anyone doing this or to this level and extent.
That in itself is ATG stuff- for me- he make the top 10 of every bowling list invented, anywhere.
a close second might be Dennis Lillee who in the days where very less was know about stress fractures of the back and shoulder - not much support either but he bounced back to be one of the greatest - i know he's not asian or in the scope of this discussion, but worth a mention anyways.
ImRan completely remodelled his action from his debut first test and probably around 1976 - it takes tons of courage to do this, along with hard work etc. Very few might have done this.
Secondly, i believe he is the only guy in history who might have added more than 10 kmph to his pace from his debut.
I cant recall anyone doing this or to this level and extent.
That in itself is ATG stuff- for me- he make the top 10 of every bowling list invented, anywhere.
a close second might be Dennis Lillee who in the days where very less was know about stress fractures of the back and shoulder - not much support either but he bounced back to be one of the greatest - i know he's not asian or in the scope of this discussion, but worth a mention anyways.
Was a fluke. They had them on the ropes and choked. They also smashed them in the league game.
No They did not face far better opponent.s that's the nostalgia talking. When you remove that bias and think objectively you will see that current era is just as good if not better. Lot of those bowlers in 90s would struggle on ultra flat pitches of current era.
I can see waqar wasim Lee even all getting smashed into oblivion in current era.
Vikram1989
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I can add Watson too.he was bowling 120s at start .after few years he became quite quick to reach 135 to 140
Agreed. Imran completely transformed himself and galvanised Pakistan single handedly to help them reach great highs in test and odi format.
As a leader that's why he is one of the best ever.
Even though numbers don't support this, tactically and cricket iq, he is higher than kohli even though kohli is regarded as one of the best winning captain of all times.
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