Border-Gavaskar Trophy 2024-2025: Did Jasprit Bumrah feast on the worst Australian batting lineup ever?

[Mamoon]

There are about 5 threads in honor of Bumrah’s so-called ATG performance in Australia on the main page of a Pakistani cricket forum.

This represents the power and the influence of the Indian narrative. Same narrative that elevated a joke of a cricketer like Dhoni to legendary status, elevated bang average players like Ashwin and Jadeja as Test greats and elevated a mentally and technically weak Test batsman like Kohli to GOAT status.

Not to mention, a wildly inconsistent and mediocre batsman like VVS Laxman got rebranded as a ‘man of crisis’.

I am bemused and also sick of all the undeserved adulation for Bumrah based on this series where he ended up on the losing side. Let’s deep-dive into what he achieved.

He bowled to a joke of a batting lineup that was arguably the worst batting unit put together by Australia in Test cricket in the last 30 years, expect for perhaps the 2018-19 BGT where a prime Smith and Warner were banned.

Let’s dissect the Australian batting lineup, one by one:

Khawaja - a 38 year old has been who averaged 22 vs Pakistan and 23 vs New Zealand. He did not get ‘Bumrah’d’ in this series - he is simply a has been who is finished at the top level due to his age. His eyes and his judgment are gone.

McSweeney - an average young batsman who made his debut but will never average more than 32-33 in Test cricket and will not play more than 25 Tests.

Konstas - a technically flawed but brave young debutant who got under Bumrah’s skin and made him look like a fool on numerous occasions.

Labuschange - he has been struggling for a very long time now, averaging low 30s. Bumrah actually helped him get some form back and he played a couple of influential innings in this series which he hasn’t done for a while.

Smith - the greatest Test batsman post Don, but not the player he was between 2014-2020. He has been averaging low 30s for a while as well, and yet, Bumrah could not stop him from scoring two series defining centuries.

Head - a maverick who can be a match winner on his day but will always take risks and give chances to the opposition to stifle him. Interestingly enough, Bumrah always fails him to stop him from demolishing India and this series was no different. Bumrah could not stop him from scoring two series defining centuries.

Marsh - no words needed, everyone knows he is a rubbish batsman at Test level.

Carey - an OK batsman at best, not someone any bowling unit will ever lose sleep over.

Webster - made his debut in Sydney.

In addition to the above, bowling all-rounders and tailenders like Cummins, Lyon and Boland all scored runs that tilted the series in Australia’s favor.

Overall, this is a 5/10 Australian batting lineup and the handful of batsmen that could have hurt India did manage to hurt India, so what did Bumrah achieve in this series apart from padding his stats?

Before giving our certifications of “ATG” series this and that, best bowler ever this and that, it is crucial to not lose perspective of what he was up against, and he was up against a batting lineup that is a strong contender for the worst Australian batting unit of all time.

 

[Fanboy375]

Yeah the series was bowling dominated.Aus batsman had some errors and wasn't their best batting generation.But it is not mid tier so that feat is impressive

 

[stani_pak]

A very outstanding posts mate and great points made

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yes I agree. While I do think it was tremendous bowling I also feel that we are at risk of the bollywood effect being added to by Indians. It is important that we counter this quickly, before it turns into the other myths surrounding the Indian team that have occurred over time, and the other myths that Indian posters have generated through their revisonism ( Wasim is a bad bowler for example).

You can rightly say that Bumrah had a 8+/10 effort and bowled tremendously but must caveat it with Scott Boland's equally good bowling and the fact Bumrah can against a 5/10 team. It can only be analysed and understood in its true context by noting these two points.

 

[m.shah]

Also you have look at the pitches that were prepared for this series, total nightmare for batsmen. The 35 year Boland bowled better than Bumrah in the tests he played

 

[starpain]

Australia is still the No. 1 ranked Test team and the reigning World Test Championship holders.

Jasprit Bumrah showcased exceptional dominance against the world's best team in their own backyard, delivering a masterclass over five matches and earning the Man of the Series award.

Such a once-in-a-lifetime bowling performance is unparalleled and unlikely to be replicated anytime soon

 

[Protea Fan]

This is peak bumrah and right now he is going through a mood in which he can run over any batting unit

I remember how he struggled root in india who arguably was the best batter in the world which happened last year

so it doesnt matter whether you are in a great form or not,facing this juggernaut is an herculean task

there is a reason why bumrah dominate two of the best batters of this generation in smith and root.i dont know whats his record against williamson though

 

[Varun]

Yes.

There was no Warner and Bancroft.

 

[Rajdeep]

Jasprit Bumrah is arguably the best fast bowler Asia has ever produced, and the year 2024 marked the absolute peak of his career. This assessment is not limited to his performances in Australia but encompasses his achievements across all formats throughout the year. His heroic efforts single-handedly secured India the T20 World Cup from an almost impossible position.

That said, maintaining such a high level of performance year after year is challenging, and we might witness a gradual decline in his form moving forward.

I have no issue with the original post (OP), as it's clear that many Pakistani posters are envious of Bumrah's achievements for obvious reasons. What stands out, however, is some posters who claim to be Indian fans have liked the post that is downgrading the performance of its strike bowler.

@Devadwal

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Jasprit Bumrah is arguably the best fast bowler Asia has ever produced, and the year 2024 marked the absolute peak of his career. This assessment is not limited to his performances in Australia but encompasses his achievements across all formats throughout the year. His heroic efforts single-handedly secured India the T20 World Cup from an almost impossible position.

That said, maintaining such a high level of performance year after year is challenging, and we might witness a gradual decline in his form moving forward.

I have no issue with the original post (OP), as it's clear that many Pakistani posters are envious of Bumrah's achievements for obvious reasons. What stands out, however, is some posters who claim to be Indian fans have liked the post that is downgrading the performance of its strike bowler.

@Devadwal

Bumrah is one of the Best but he can be the best if he plays minimum 100 tests and maintain his form.
Bowlers like Wasim / Waqar played for an extended amount of time. once they were past their prime , their stats declined too.. let me tell you Wasim could have 550 plus wickets in testa with team like Aus because of Better catching.. Forget about DRs.. if Waim had it that 550 would be 600 plus..

So If Bumrah stays Fit for another 50 tests and bring in 200 more scalps , we can have ATG discussion

 

[FearlessRoar]

Bumrah has become the talk of the town. No doubt he is a good bowler, but he's not yet in the list of greats. I doubt injuries will let him set a legacy of most wickets.

He was very clinical during this BGT 2024-25 - even I was shocked at how easily he was taking wickets at crucial moments. It reminded me of Mitchell Johnson in the Ashes 2013.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Compared to the stellar performance by Abbas and co. against a high quality Saffer batting lineup, Bumrah indeed does fall short. Also, the OZ batting lineup that Mir Hamza and co. bowled to last season was also stronger than this lineup since it had Warner

 

[Rajdeep]

This is simply a case of you guys being jealous of his success and the fact that India has finally produced a bowler who is better than any Pakistani bowler, past or present. That’s why we see these bizarre threads claiming things like: he’s a chucker, he uses sandpaper under his shoes, he only performs against weak Aussie lineups, or that he’s succeeding in an era of weak Test cricket, etc. Then, posters claim with a straight face that they’re not jealous. Hilarious.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Bumrah has become the talk of the town. No doubt he is a good bowler, but he's not yet in the list of greats. I doubt injuries will let him set a legacy of most wickets.

He was very clinical during this BGT 2024-25 - even I was shocked at how easily he was taking wickets at crucial moments. It reminded me of Mitchell Johnson in the Ashes 2013.

thats the thing about ATGs.. They stay Injury free and Play long. At the moment it looks like Bumrah has got couple of years in Him.. playing month long tournament like IPL and then play 5 match Test series against Eng and Aus consistently does take toll eventually

 

[mominsaigol]

There are about 5 threads in honor of Bumrah’s so-called ATG performance in Australia on the main page of a Pakistani cricket forum.

This represents the power and the influence of the Indian narrative. Same narrative that elevated a joke of a cricketer like Dhoni to legendary status, elevated bang average players like Ashwin and Jadeja as Test greats and elevated a mentally and technically weak Test batsman like Kohli to GOAT status.

Not to mention, a wildly inconsistent and mediocre batsman like VVS Laxman got rebranded as a ‘man of crisis’.

I am bemused and also sick of all the undeserved adulation for Bumrah based on this series where he ended up on the losing side. Let’s deep-dive into what he achieved.

He bowled to a joke of a batting lineup that was arguably the worst batting unit put together by Australia in Test cricket in the last 30 years, expect for perhaps the 2018-19 BGT where a prime Smith and Warner were banned.

Let’s dissect the Australian batting lineup, one by one:

Khawaja - a 38 year old has been who averaged 22 vs Pakistan and 23 vs New Zealand. He did not get ‘Bumrah’d’ in this series - he is simply a has been who is finished at the top level due to his age. His eyes and his judgment are gone.

McSweeney - an average young batsman who made his debut but will never average more than 32-33 in Test cricket and will not play more than 25 Tests.

Konstas - a technically flawed but brave young debutant who got under Bumrah’s skin and made him look like a fool on numerous occasions.

Labuschange - he has been struggling for a very long time now, averaging low 30s. Bumrah actually helped him get some form back and he played a couple of influential innings in this series which he hasn’t done for a while.

Smith - the greatest Test batsman post Don, but not the player he was between 2014-2020. He has been averaging low 30s for a while as well, and yet, Bumrah could not stop him from scoring two series defining centuries.

Head - a maverick who can be a match winner on his day but will always take risks and give chances to the opposition to stifle him. Interestingly enough, Bumrah always fails him to stop him from demolishing India and this series was no different. Bumrah could not stop him from scoring two series defining centuries.

Marsh - no words needed, everyone knows he is a rubbish batsman at Test level.

Carey - an OK batsman at best, not someone any bowling unit will ever lose sleep over.

Webster - made his debut in Sydney.

In addition to the above, bowling all-rounders and tailenders like Cummins, Lyon and Boland all scored runs that tilted the series in Australia’s favor.

Overall, this is a 5/10 Australian batting lineup and the handful of batsmen that could have hurt India did manage to hurt India, so what did Bumrah achieve in this series apart from padding his stats?

Before giving our certifications of “ATG” series this and that, best bowler ever this and that, it is crucial to not lose perspective of what he was up against, and he was up against a batting lineup that is a strong contender for the worst Australian batting unit of all time.

This post deserves POTW.

 

[daytrader]

This post deserves POTW.

Something we can agree upon. Great analysis @Mamoon

 

[AAli98]

Alex Carey looked there best batsman that says it all.

 

[Rajdeep]

Bumrah is one of the Best but he can be the best if he plays minimum 100 tests and maintain his form.
Bowlers like Wasim / Waqar played for an extended amount of time. once they were past their prime , their stats declined too.. let me tell you Wasim could have 550 plus wickets in testa with team like Aus because of Better catching.. Forget about DRs.. if Waim had it that 550 would be 600 plus..

So If Bumrah stays Fit for another 50 tests and bring in 200 more scalps , we can have ATG discussion

No one has seen the future but at present for whatever he has done he is superior than every bowler from Asia. For all the talks about Wasim/Waqar, as much as I respect them, they never manage to perform or win a world cup game against arch rival India. Bumrah single handedly defended 120 runs in the last T20 WC game. Wasim/Waqar never won a test series in Australia, Bumrah have done it twice.

 

[Rajdeep]

India wins test series in 2018 - it was weak Aus with no Warner/Smith, so it had an asterisk.

India win test series in 2021 - it was a weak Aus line up with Tim Paine being the captain.

Bumrah performs in 2024 - it was a weak Aus batting line up

But but we are not jealous of Indian cricket

 

[TheSultan]

Even though Australia won the series. Their batting is mentally very weak. And for some reason, they seem to fear India. They buy in very easily to the Indian hype.

They gave Bumrah some nice statistics. They allowed Pant to dominate in a few instances.

Australia are very lucky that the Indian batting was even worse.


After NZ blanked India at home, the Aussies should not have lost a test here. The fact they did is only because of the fear they have of India

 

[mominsaigol]

No one has seen the future but at present for whatever he has done he is superior than every bowler from Asia. For all the talks about Wasim/Waqar, as much as I respect them, they never manage to perform or win a world cup game against arch rival India. Bumrah single handedly defended 120 runs in the last T20 WC game. Wasim/Waqar never won a test series in Australia, Bumrah have done it twice.

Genuinely question? How old are you? Your knowledge of cricket is extremely weak pre 2019.

Wasim/waqar dealt with a nightmarish Aussie team. It was next to impossible to beat them dueing their classic era. This Indian team would have gotten cremated 24 ways to Sunday had they played that Australian team.

This Indian side can't even beat one of the weakest aussie teams? This aussie team is a has been side filled with 30+ years old has beens and one 19 year old. Travis head is their only inform batter.

India should be ashamed of themselves for allowing smith who'd been worse then Bavuma post 2020 in tests for mauling them 2 ways to Sunday.

Similarly wasim and waqar had to deal with a much stronger Indian lineup batting wise.

India's batting atm is at bloody joke filled qith has beens and a very very overrated jaiswal, Pant and Gill being their best batters.

Are you honestly comparing them to Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganugly etc etc? Aka the gods you worship and drink their milks from?

Wasim would have ran through this Indian lineup lol.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

No one has seen the future but at present for whatever he has done he is superior than every bowler from Asia. For all the talks about Wasim/Waqar, as much as I respect them, they never manage to perform or win a world cup game against arch rival India. Bumrah single handedly defended 120 runs in the last T20 WC game. Wasim/Waqar never won a test series in Australia, Bumrah have done it twice.

haha Wasim/waqar Defeated England in England three consecutive occasions. 87-92-96 and then drew in 2000. basically Eng could nt win home series against Pak in Wasim / Waqar’s prime days. Not loosing in England for 15 years is as good as winning BGT down under. There was no t20 in Wasim waqar Era.. but they did win 92 and came close in 99.. 99 they should have won though

 

[sweep_shot]

Bumrah feasted on T20 hacks and average batters throughout his career.

This is why I can't put Bumrah in the same category as some of cricket's undisputed legends.

Averaging 20 (with the ball) in today's time is not same as averaging 20 in 1980's or 1990's.

 

[daytrader]

I feel the adulation by Indians is genuine. They waited a long time for a pacer of Bumrah's calibre and are star struck. But the bollywood effect is real.

Recently heard lyrics to a song where the singer made a Bumrah reference:

"Jidae peh jayie piche onu kariye tabah
Jivaen jara vichu pattae bandaa, Jassi Bumrah" - Seedhe Maut

Roughly translated: Whoever we go against we destroy them, like Bumrah uproots set people

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Genuinely question? How old are you? Your knowledge of cricket is extremely weak pre 2019.

Wasim/waqar dealt with a nightmarish Aussie team. It was next to impossible to beat them dueing their classic era. This Indian team would have gotten cremated 24 ways to Sunday had they played that Australian team.

This Indian side can't even beat one of the weakest aussie teams? This aussie team is a has been side filled with 30+ years old has beens and one 19 year old. Travis head is their only inform batter.

India should be ashamed of themselves for allowing smith who'd been worse then Bavuma post 2020 in tests for mauling them 2 ways to Sunday.

Similarly wasim and waqar had to deal with a much stronger Indian lineup batting wise.

India's batting atm is at bloody joke filled qith has beens and a very very overrated jaiswal, Pant and Gill being their best batters.

Are you honestly comparing them to Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganugly etc etc? Aka the gods you worship and drink their milks from?

Wasim would have ran through this Indian lineup lol.

hah they have weak memories

Wasim single handedly won us Tri nation in Aus. First Asian team to ever do so

Then Waqar as captain and Wasim as bowler won against Aussies ( Invincible side ) in 2001. Again first Asian team to win bilateral series against Aus.. winning against that aussie team in Aus was no small thing

 

[shaz619]

With the exception of Shaheen Shah Afridi; Pakistani bowlers did surprisingly ok in Australia as well and competed for the first time in forever. If they were a bit smarter they may have won a Test as well; heck, the West Indies won as well.

 

[pillionrider]

When a post is extremely silly, it becomes an interesting challenge to find the stupidest bits in it. Through a process of elimination, I think I've finally found the winner.

....elevated a mentally and technically weak Test batsman like Kohli to GOAT status.

That Kohli lacks an above-average test cricket technique has always been known. But the only thing that has kept him in the reckoning as a potential modern test great during his peak years WAS his mental strength and how quickly he could find solutions to his problems or an alternate way to score runs.

Unless of course this little bit was OP's subtle hint that it's all a troll.

 

[Rajdeep]

Genuinely question? How old are you? Your knowledge of cricket is extremely weak pre 2019.

I'm older than you, mate. I can't help it if half of my post gets deleted, which removes the context of what I was writing.

Not sure how good my cricket knowledge is, but at least I don't call Shane Warne an overhyped Test bowler.

Wasim/waqar dealt with a nightmarish Aussie team. It was next to impossible to beat them dueing their classic era. This Indian team would have gotten cremated 24 ways to Sunday had they played that Australian team.

LOL... Australia from 1990-99 was an average side. They got mauled by India during the 1998 tour, with players like Navjot Sidhu taking them apart. The team included cricketers like Greg Blewett, Michael Kasprowicz, Ian Healy, and Paul Reiffel—most of whom were average players.

Australia only became an all-time great team after the turn of the millennium, specifically post-1999 World Cup. So don't use the excuse that they had to deal with a 'nightmarish' Aussie team during that era.

This Indian side can't even beat one of the weakest aussie teams? This aussie team is a has been side filled with 30+ years old has beens and one 19 year old. Travis head is their only inform batter.

But India has already beaten them in every series, both home and away, since 2014. This is the first time we've lost a series against them in 10 years and 29 days, dating back to when MS Dhoni was our Test captain.

Similarly wasim and waqar had to deal with a much stronger Indian lineup batting wise.

India's batting atm is at bloody joke filled qith has beens and a very very overrated jaiswal, Pant and Gill being their best batters.

Are you honestly comparing them to Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganugly etc etc? Aka the gods you worship and drink their milks from?

Wasim would have ran through this Indian lineup lol.

India's batting lineup was atrocious in the 1992, 1996, and 1999 World Cups. It was all about Sachin in the first two, and in 1999, only Dravid was in form. Sachin was coping with his father's demise, and Ganguly was out of form. Things were so bad that we even lost to Zimbabwe.

The fact is, despite all the hype surrounding Wasim and Waqar, they could never beat India in the World Cup—arguably the highest-pressure game—across four attempts. Recently, Bumrah single-handedly defended 120 runs against you in the T20 World Cup.

I am not even talking about bottle caps and reverse swings etc. as we never want to disrespect your legends. But if the situation has come to this where you guys will disrespect Bumrah in every instance, we have to show you all the mirror. Let it be statistically, like @Buffet has done or with cricketing acumen like I am doing.


Hope I have answer your question. On to next excuse pls, I am waiting

 

[pillionrider]

Wasim/waqar dealt with a nightmarish Aussie team. It was next to impossible to beat them dueing their classic era. This Indian team would have gotten cremated 24 ways to Sunday had they played that Australian team.

Do you realize that India is the only team that has stopped the Australian juggernaut when they were thrashing teams for fun. 16 consecutive wins, they had. And we stopped them. Not once. But TWICE, because they'd seemed to have forgotten about the first one.

 

[RexRex]

I feel the adulation by Indians is genuine. They waited a long time for a pacer of Bumrah's calibre and are star struck. But the bollywood effect is real.

Pakistanis are just as star struck with Bumrah as well, hard to find another player on here with 5-6 simultaneous threads about him.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm older than you, mate. I can't help it if half of my post gets deleted, which removes the context of what I was writing.

Not sure how good my cricket knowledge is, but at least I don't call Shane Warne an overhyped Test bowler.


LOL... Australia from 1990-99 was an average side. They got mauled by India during the 1998 tour, with players like Navjot Sidhu taking them apart. The team included cricketers like Greg Blewett, Michael Kasprowicz, Ian Healy, and Paul Reiffel—most of whom were average players.

Australia only became an all-time great team after the turn of the millennium, specifically post-1999 World Cup. So don't use the excuse that they had to deal with a 'nightmarish' Aussie team during that era.


But India has already beaten them in every series, both home and away, since 2014. This is the first time we've lost a series against them in 10 years and 29 days, dating back to when MS Dhoni was our Test captain.


India's batting lineup was atrocious in the 1992, 1996, and 1999 World Cups. It was all about Sachin in the first two, and in 1999, only Dravid was in form. Sachin was coping with his father's demise, and Ganguly was out of form. Things were so bad that we even lost to Zimbabwe.

The fact is, despite all the hype surrounding Wasim and Waqar, they could never beat India in the World Cup—arguably the highest-pressure game—across four attempts. Recently, Bumrah single-handedly defended 120 runs against you in the T20 World Cup.

I am not even talking about bottle caps and reverse swings etc. as we never want to disrespect your legends. But if the situation has come to this where you guys will disrespect Bumrah in every instance, we have to show you all the mirror. Let it be statistically, like @Buffet has done or with cricketing acumen like I am doing.


Hope I have answer your question. On to next excuse pls, I am waiting

View attachment 149367

Age is irrelevant. You can be 70 years old but that doesn't mean you'll have more knowledge about engineering or programming then a programmer in his 30's with 10 years of experience. I'm asking when you started watching. My guess is 2019.

And no more of these Sachin had mental this and that. My God you guys create false narratives around him 24/7.

 

[mominsaigol]

Do you realize that India is the only team that has stopped the Australian juggernaut when they were thrashing teams for fun. 16 consecutive wins, they had. And we stopped them. Not once. But TWICE, because they'd seemed to have forgotten about the first one.

Where was this so called stopping in 2003 final? Which was their own home den?

 

[Rajdeep]

Age is irrelevant. You can be 70 years old but that doesn't mean you'll have more knowledge about engineering or programming then a programmer in his 30's with 10 years of experience. I'm asking when you started watching. My guess is 2019.

And no more of these Sachin had mental this and that. My God you guys create false narratives around him 24/7.

You asked 'Genuine Question...how old are you?'. Now you are saying age is irrelevant. So was that a genuine question or not?

Momin ji

 

[mominsaigol]

You asked 'Genuine Question...how old are you?'. Now you are saying age is irrelevant. So was that a genuine question or not?

Momin ji

Bro come now, you can read and understand context. I can't babysit you all day brother.

 

[pillionrider]

Where was this so called stopping in 2003 final? Which was their own home den?

It was there when we took the BGT from them home and away. And both ended a 16 consecutive wins juggernaut. You said the great Pakistani duo were incapable against Australia because they had God-mode turned on. I showed you how India found a cheat code.

Now go back running to the classic Pakistani safety net of Ponting being the best batsman because he mauled Indian bowlers in a WC final

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys please abstain from irrelevant stuff here.

 

[Rajdeep]

@mominsaigol @daytrader post #28 deserves POTW and not the actual OP. It is what you called proper response to all the accusations and delusions which no one seem to counter back

 

[mominsaigol]

It was there when we took the BGT from them home and away. And both ending a 16 consecutive wins juggernaut. You said the great Pakistani duo were incapable against Australia because they had God-mode turned on. I showed you how India found a cheat code.

Now go back running to the classic Pakistani safety net of Ponting being the best batsman because he mauled Indian bowlers in a WC final

Australia has owned India and Pakistan more then any team and that's a fact.

However in the case of Indian fans, no one has created more coping mechanisms then you have vs Aus.

Anything to avoid admitting their they were and still are your abu's.

When it matters the most, The biggest gut punches is delivered by them.

All these series series nonsense is irrelevant and a coping mechanism to justify the lack of Indian trophies in BCCI's cabinet.

What's funny is you guys created a cheap copy of the ashes just to give yourself more trophies .

What a fraud crowd.

 

[pillionrider]

I'm older than you, mate. I can't help it if half of my post gets deleted, which removes the context of what I was writing.

Not sure how good my cricket knowledge is, but at least I don't call Shane Warne an overhyped Test bowler.


LOL... Australia from 1990-99 was an average side. They got mauled by India during the 1998 tour, with players like Navjot Sidhu taking them apart. The team included cricketers like Greg Blewett, Michael Kasprowicz, Ian Healy, and Paul Reiffel—most of whom were average players.

Australia only became an all-time great team after the turn of the millennium, specifically post-1999 World Cup. So don't use the excuse that they had to deal with a 'nightmarish' Aussie team during that era.


But India has already beaten them in every series, both home and away, since 2014. This is the first time we've lost a series against them in 10 years and 29 days, dating back to when MS Dhoni was our Test captain.


India's batting lineup was atrocious in the 1992, 1996, and 1999 World Cups. It was all about Sachin in the first two, and in 1999, only Dravid was in form. Sachin was coping with his father's demise, and Ganguly was out of form. Things were so bad that we even lost to Zimbabwe.

The fact is, despite all the hype surrounding Wasim and Waqar, they could never beat India in the World Cup—arguably the highest-pressure game—across four attempts. Recently, Bumrah single-handedly defended 120 runs against you in the T20 World Cup.

I am not even talking about bottle caps and reverse swings etc. as we never want to disrespect your legends. But if the situation has come to this where you guys will disrespect Bumrah in every instance, we have to show you all the mirror. Let it be statistically, like @Buffet has done or with cricketing acumen like I am doing.


Hope I have answer your question. On to next excuse pls, I am waiting

View attachment 149367

POTW

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol @daytrader post #28 deserves POTW and not the actual OP. It is what you called proper response to all the accusations and delusions which no one seem to counter back

Post 28 deserves potw? A post that starts with the words

I'm older then you mate? Goat argument

 

[cricketjoshila]

India wins test series in 2018 - it was weak Aus with no Warner/Smith, so it had an asterisk.

India win test series in 2021 - it was a weak Aus line up with Tim Paine being the captain.

Bumrah performs in 2024 - it was a weak Aus batting line up

But but we are not jealous of Indian cricket

In last 25 years, Pakistan yet to even draw a test against such a weak team.

 

[pillionrider]

Australia has owned India and Pakistan more then any team and that's a fact.

However in the case of Indian fans, no one has created more coping mechanisms then you have vs Aus.

Anything to avoid admitting their they were and still are your abu's.

When it matters the most, The biggest gut punches is delivered by them.

All these series series nonsense is irrelevant and a coping mechanism to justify the lack of Indian trophies in BCCI's cabinet.

What's funny is you guys created a cheap copy of the ashes just to give yourself more trophies .

What a fraud crowd.

Dude this sounds totally unhinged. And I'm not being funny. You have taken Bumrah too personally. You will most likely never know him personally. Yet you've created a monster and are choosing to be haunted 24 hours a day. Take it easy.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I feel the adulation by Indians is genuine. They waited a long time for a pacer of Bumrah's calibre and are star struck. But the bollywood effect is real.

Recently heard lyrics to a song where the singer made a Bumrah reference:

"Jidae peh jayie piche onu kariye tabah
Jivaen jara vichu pattae bandaa, Jassi Bumrah" - Seedhe Maut

Roughly translated: Whoever we go against we destroy them, like Bumrah uproots set people

How many bowlers of Bumrahs calibre has Asia produced?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Dude this sounds totally unhinged. And I'm not being funny. You have taken Bumrah too personally. You will most likely never know him personally. Yet you've created a monster and are choosing to be haunted 24 hours a day. Take it easy.

Bumrah has destroyed the Australian line up.

Bumrah will likely go past every pakistani fast bowler.

Bumrah has made it impossible for him to hide behind either of his passports.

He is genuinely frustrated.

 

[mominsaigol]

Dude this sounds totally unhinged. And I'm not being funny. You have taken Bumrah too personally. You will most likely never know him personally. Yet you've created a monster and are choosing to be haunted 24 hours a day. Take it easy.

I haven't taken bumrah personally. He's actually my 2nd favourite player in the world after Travis head.

My issue is you Bafoons have zero knowledge about cricket.

For example @jnaveen1980 and I had a conversation a few months back where he said 2024 India would demolish classic Australia in test and odi and I told him he was wrong.

He had the audacity to claim i knew nothing about cricket even though I told him 2024 India is a has been with crap bowlers and crap batters. Jaiswal and Bumrah or bust. That's their current condition. But he was over the moon due to wc 2024 India performance.

Next month India got whitewashed at home and now their booted out of wtc by the 3rd weakest aussie test team in history and easily one of their weakest batting lineups of all time.

Yet now he's lying over and over claiming he never claimed this, or that he said the words You cannot categorically say classic Australia would win.

These rubbish word twists and cheeky arguments mean nothing.

jaiswal vs Head thread was the same. I wanted to create it to claim that head would outperform jaiswal in aus BGT. That was the initial topic. But you hooligans specifically vikram and kron created a thread on my behalf twisting my words and making future nonsense predictions like jaiswal will have a better career.

Like what relevance does the future make? All I said was head > Jaiswal atm and everyone disagreed. Now that I was proven right, you all are making nonsense arguments like

A) Jaiswal will have a better career?

B) Jaiswal is an opener?

C) Head is HTB

Oh bhai all I said was BGT, and you all are ratting.

Bumrah is another case.

I'm always proven right and will be cause I own you guys 24/7 and you guys will lie, claim the arguments never occurred. Change your story, anything to avoid admitting that I have owned you left and right on this forumn.

It doesn't matter, carry your crying attitude. Bumrah next choke in ct 2025 is incoming.

 

[pillionrider]

It doesn't matter, carry your crying attitude. Bumrah next choke in ct 2025 is incoming.

tl;dr what is your prediction for the India-Pakistan game in the CT?

 

[mominsaigol]

tl;dr what is your prediction for the India-Pakistan game in the CT?

India will win obviously. Pakistan don't have saim and it's unlikely they'll win in uae vs spinners.

Unlike you lot, I'm not delusional.

I can tell who'll win and who'll lose from a mile away, just like i can tell why a poster is rubbish when he claims 2024 India > classic Australia. Even dr bassim had a laugh lol.

I'm the God of Indian posters.

 

[RexRex]

I can tell who'll win and who'll lose from a mile away, just like i can tell why a poster is rubbish when he claims 2024 India > classic Australia. Even dr bassim had a laugh lol.

which poster made that claim

 

[Mamoon]

When a post is extremely silly, it becomes an interesting challenge to find the stupidest bits in it. Through a process of elimination, I think I've finally found the winner.

This is why you have conveniently avoided to address the points that I raised because you know that you cannot counter them.

That Kohli lacks an above-average test cricket technique has always been known. But the only thing that has kept him in the reckoning as a potential modern test great during his peak years WAS his mental strength and how quickly he could find solutions to his problems or an alternate way to score runs.

Unless of course this little bit was OP's subtle hint that it's all a troll.

You mean like the 2016-17 BGT where he averaged 9.20 and was completely clueless throughout the series on turning tracks? What stopped him from finding solutions during the series and finding a way to score runs?

Kohli’s technical and mental deficiencies in Test cricket go hand in hand. They are deeply interlinked and mentally strong players are able to work around their weaknesses.

His weak mentality to overcome his technical issues is the reason why he is going to retire with a laughable average of 46-47. The difference between Smith and Kohli in this series couldn’t be more obvious: both batsmen are past their primes, but Smith battled and still managed to score two series defining centuries, while Kohli failed in 8 consecutive innings because he didn’t have the mental discipline to restrain himself from poking outside the off-stump.

 

[mominsaigol]

which poster made that claim

Jnaveen sahib

 

[Rajdeep]

I haven't taken bumrah personally. He's actually my 2nd favourite player in the world after Travis head.

My issue is you Bafoons have zero knowledge about cricket.

For example @jnaveen1980 and I had a conversation a few months back where he said 2024 India would demolish classic Australia in test and odi and I told him he was wrong.

He had the audacity to claim i knew nothing about cricket even though I told him 2024 India is a has been with crap bowlers and crap batters. Jaiswal and Bumrah or bust. That's their current condition. But he was over the moon due to wc 2024 India performance.

Next month India got whitewashed at home and now their booted out of wtc by the 3rd weakest aussie test team in history and easily one of their weakest batting lineups of all time.

Yet now he's lying over and over claiming he never claimed this, or that he said the words You cannot categorically say classic Australia would win.

These rubbish word twists and cheeky arguments mean nothing.

jaiswal vs Head thread was the same. I wanted to create it to claim that head would outperform jaiswal in aus BGT. That was the initial topic. But you hooligans specifically vikram and kron created a thread on my behalf twisting my words and making future nonsense predictions like jaiswal will have a better career.

Like what relevance does the future make? All I said was head > Jaiswal atm and everyone disagreed. Now that I was proven right, you all are making nonsense arguments like

A) Jaiswal will have a better career?

B) Jaiswal is an opener?

C) Head is HTB

Oh bhai all I said was BGT, and you all are ratting.

Bumrah is another case.

I'm always proven right and will be cause I own you guys 24/7 and you guys will lie, claim the arguments never occurred. Change your story, anything to avoid admitting that I have owned you left and right on this forumn.

It doesn't matter, carry your crying attitude. Bumrah next choke in ct 2025 is incoming.

Don't mine me saying, but all your posts end up with following:

1. Your debate with some other poster in a separate thread and how they ran away.
2. How you were proven right
3. Insert some random sentence about Travis Head
4. How you own everyone else 24/7

But when countered with proper facts, you never respond back like you never did on post #28.

Then you ask others - 'How old are you'.

Momin Ji

 

[mominsaigol]

Don't mine me saying, but all your posts end up with following:

1. Your debate with some other poster in a separate thread and how they ran away.
2. How you were proven right
3. Insert some random sentence about Travis Head
4. How you own everyone else 24/7

But when countered with proper facts, you never respond back like you never did on post #28.

Then you ask others - 'How old are you'.

Momin Ji

1. Your debate with some other poster in a separate thread and how they ran away.

2. How you were proven right

3. Insert some random sentence about Travis Head

4. How you own everyone else 24/7

Cause its the truth. i

A) Have conversations with Indian posters

B) Am always proven right

C) I'm the Travis head of this forumn

D) At this point might as well call me your owner.

But when countered with proper facts, you never respond back like you never did on post #28.

What a flex by claiming youre older then me

 

[Rajdeep]

1. Your debate with some other poster in a separate thread and how they ran away.

2. How you were proven right

3. Insert some random sentence about Travis Head

4. How you own everyone else 24/7

Cause its the truth. i

A) Have conversations with Indian posters

B) Am always proven right

C) I'm the Travis head of this forumn

D) At this point might as well call me your owner.

But when countered with proper facts, you never respond back like you never did on post #28.

What a flex by claiming youre older then me

What did I just read?

 

[mominsaigol]

What did I just read?

View attachment 149370

You read the truth brother. Look it hurts and I get it. But consider me as your psychologist. It'll help before the gut punch.

 

[Pakhs]

While Bumrah’s performance in this Test series has been remarkable, and nothing can be taken away from him, the overall decline in batting standards in world cricket is evident, largely due to excessive T20 cricket. The number of wickets falling to batsmen playing on the move suggests a lack of stable technique, which is a fundamental aspect of the game. Also, players like Konstas would never have debuted as an opener 20 years ago for a team like Australia with his current technique.

It’s not just Bumrah—someone like Bolland also feasted on similar weaknesses. However, this should not take anything away from the bowlers, but it is clear that world cricket no longer has the batting quality of the past.

For those bringing Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram into this discussion, they played in a distant past and are not comparable to today’s cricket. At least one full generation of cricketers has passed since then, and the game is completely different from what it was back in their era.

Now, focusing on Bumrah specifically—although he has great numbers and is a great LOI bowler, he will never be a true great in Test cricket. To achieve that, a bowler must play at least 100 Test matches or take at least 400 wickets. Unfortunately, what makes him great is also his weakness—his bowling action. India and Bumrah have already done well to sustain any kind of career with that action.

 

[pillionrider]

You mean like the 2016-17 BGT where he averaged 9.20 and was completely clueless throughout the series on turning tracks? What stopped him from finding solutions during the series and finding a way to score runs?

The difference between Smith and Kohli in this series couldn’t be more obvious: both batsmen are past their primes, but Smith battled and still managed to score two series defining centuries, while Kohli failed in 8 consecutive innings because he didn’t have the mental discipline to restrain himself from poking outside the off-stump.

Kohli's ability vs spinners has generally been as good as his slip catching ability. That he still found a way to be placed in the same group as Smith, the test batsman, for almost a decade is not simply down to Indian hype or money power.

The 2nd para. I agree. In the sense that Kohli's ability to almost manipulate his reality has weakened considerably. He has lost his mental abilities. I was referring to his mental toughness during his pomp and the kind of toughness that bailed him out vs Pakistan at the MCG when he was struggling for the most part of that innings. He is not close to Sachin in terms of pure skills or studied technique. But the only reason people thought he could seriously challenge SRT as the greatest Indian batsman was his superior mental strength. And I use the phrase 'mentally superior to Sachin' responsibly.

 

[pillionrider]

India will win obviously. Pakistan don't have saim and it's unlikely they'll win in uae vs spinners.

Unlike you lot, I'm not delusional.

I can tell who'll win and who'll lose from a mile away, just like i can tell why a poster is rubbish when he claims 2024 India > classic Australia. Even dr bassim had a laugh lol.

I'm the God of Indian posters.

So your prediction of a Bumrah choke was not against Pakistan. Ok.

 

[mominsaigol]

So your prediction of a Bumrah choke was not against Pakistan. Ok.

Only team that can boot india out of the cup is England, NZ and Aus.

Afg doesnt stand a chance. Sa is useless in knockouts, Pakistan probably won't even make knockouts. Bangladesh lol nope.

 

[ExpressPacer]

This was a great batting side at its peak. I acknowledge they are no longer at their peak but still nevertheless formidable.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Jasprit Bumrah Was "Squeezed Like Sugarcane": Harbhajan Singh

"He was used like you squeezed juice from sugarcane. It was like 'Travis Head has come, give the ball to Bumrah, Marnus has come, give the ball to Bumrah, Steve Smith has come, give the ball to Bumrah'. How many overs will Bumrah bowl? He has been reduced to such a condition that he was not available at the end. If he was there, Australia may have won the fifth Test but they would have lost eight wickets, it would have been tough for them,"

"You broke his back and the management should have decided on how many overs he should be given."

 

[Ab Fan]

No, that’s not true.

It was a good batting lineup. Carey was scoring a lot of runs at Sheffield but was clueless here and so were Indian top 3. Smith hit two tons but still couldn’t average 40 in the series. Head was manhandled by Bumrah in Melbourne Test.

 

[Pakhs]

No, that’s not true.

It was a good batting lineup. Carey was scoring a lot of runs at Sheffield but was clueless here and so were Indian top 3. Smith hit two tons but still couldn’t average 40 in the series. Head was manhandled by Bumrah in Melbourne Test.

It was a bowler-dominated series, and any bowler who averaged more than 25 did not perform well. The fact that two bowlers took wickets at an average of less than 15 speaks volumes. Additionally, both batting lineups have seen better days and are past their prime. On balance, India's batting lineup is, if anything, slightly better than Australia’s, as most of Australia's batsmen are past their peak. India, at least, had Jaiswal and a few other established batters in their prime.

Furthermore, Bumrah never really got the better of Head in the series. In fact, Head was one of the few batters who nullified Bumrah’s impact over the five-match series, averaging over 50, while even all-time greats struggled to average above 40.

 

[RexRex]

Found this on social media. All 32 wkts of Bumrah this series -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1875826554040987881

 

[Rajdeep]

Found this on social media. All 32 wkts of Bumrah this series -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1875826554040987881

Good video.

What is interesting to note is umpire turning out decisions in favour of India from 1st wicket itself

 

[Buffet]

This is peak bumrah and right now he is going through a mood in which he can run over any batting unit

I remember how he struggled root in india who arguably was the best batter in the world which happened last year

so it doesnt matter whether you are in a great form or not,facing this juggernaut is an herculean task

there is a reason why bumrah dominate two of the best batters of this generation in smith and root.

It's hillarious to be honest. Circular logic to downplay Bumrah in various threads has become comical. Many posters make conflicting points and go in circles.

-------------------------------

Examples of cirucular logics I see in all threads by some of the the same posters,

Top 5 pacers in 5-fers in away win -- Oh, we should ignore wins, it's about team.

Greatest display of fast bowling in decades with 32 wickets at Avg 13, - oh, he did not win anything.

Among the best in tough tours in entire history -- Oh, standard of cricket is poor.

No one else is doing what he is doing --- Oh, context is missing.

Go back to first point and repeat in a loop.


--------------------------

Bumrah has truck load of wickets in Aus at avg of 17 and vey low SR. He is simply hard to face when bowling well in Aus.

Since Bumrah's debute,

Aus Batsmen in Aus( when not facing India since 2018) - 45 runs per wicket -- Oh again context is missing. Aus team is not ATG team of past. It has to be Aus ATG team otherwise it does not count.

Now go back in above list and pick any point to repeat the loop.

---------------------------

 

[Buffet]

@Protea Fan

Since many posters don't like to see any data and write huge essays without any data,

Here are some subjecitve opinions from greats of the game for this series,

--------------------

Ponting on Bumrah: "Probably the best series of fast bowling I've ever seen"​

Mark Waugh: “This was as good a fast bowling as I have ever seen since I have been around cricket fields."

----------------

I forgot, Oh it's IPL that's why they are forced to say this. LOL.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bumrah is one of the Best but he can be the best if he plays minimum 100 tests and maintain his form.
Bowlers like Wasim / Waqar played for an extended amount of time. once they were past their prime , their stats declined too.. let me tell you Wasim could have 550 plus wickets in testa with team like Aus because of Better catching.. Forget about DRs.. if Waim had it that 550 would be 600 plus..

So If Bumrah stays Fit for another 50 tests and bring in 200 more scalps , we can have ATG discussion

I don't think he needs to play 100 tests, imo he is in the frame of being in discussion as ATGs of the game based on his current outputs.

Although I do appreciate the point about how bowlers play as they age. We won't get to see Bumrah and how he plays with lots of miles on the clock. Wasim has some good tours of Aus but his stats went down after 1 bad tour when he had more miles on the clock.

Despite this Bumrah has ticked off many other boxes. No ATG is perfect.

 

[Pakhs]

I don't think he needs to play 100 tests, imo he is in the frame of being in discussion as ATGs of the game based on his current outputs.

Although I do appreciate the point about how bowlers play as they age. We won't get to see Bumrah and how he plays with lots of miles on the clock. Wasim has some good tours of Aus but his stats went down after 1 bad tour when he had more miles on the clock.

Despite this Bumrah has ticked off many other boxes. No ATG is perfect.

In Test cricket, longevity matters, and no one can be considered an all-time great (ATG) with just 200 wickets. To truly earn that status, a bowler needs at least 400+ wickets.

We are discussing ATGs here, not just good or very good bowlers.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In Test cricket, longevity matters, and no one can be considered an all-time great (ATG) with just 200 wickets. To truly earn that status, a bowler needs at least 400+ wickets.

We are discussing ATGs here, not just good or very good bowlers.

I used to think to too but consider the following - Bumrah plays his next 2 years against Sri Lanka, West Indies, bangladesh and Zimbabwe. takes 200 wickets against them ( hypothetical scenario), will you consider him ATG?

 

[Pakhs]

I used to think to too but consider the following - Bumrah plays his next 2 years against Sri Lanka, West Indies, bangladesh and Zimbabwe. takes 200 wickets against them ( hypothetical scenario), will you consider him ATG?

Yes, in Test cricket, longevity is the main challenge, and reaching 400 Test wickets is an achievement in itself. While there can be some extenuating circumstances, a bowler should at least be close to 400 wickets to be considered an all-time great (ATG). Having just 200 wickets means they are only halfway there.

To be truly great (ATG), a bowler needs to perform across generations, proving that their game can stand the test of time as well as the physical demands of the format.

It would be unnatural to only play against weaker sides over a long period of time, but given the current era, there are too many of them, it remains possible. This factor should be taken into account when discussing all-time greats (ATGs) and comparing them against each other.

 

[Buffet]

In Test cricket, longevity matters, and no one can be considered an all-time great (ATG) with just 200 wickets. To truly earn that status, a bowler needs at least 400+ wickets.

We are discussing ATGs here, not just good or very good bowlers.

400+ wickets? The best test pacer in history won't make that cut.

If you lack enough sample size against good teams or enough sample size for tough tours then you can't judge quality of players. Bumrah's output in both has a large sample size with great output. Among the best in tests against top sides and quality both.

Now if you want to argue that he needs to do stats pad against WI, SL, Zim, BD to achieve greatness in 3 format era to get 400+ wickets then it will ever happen. He will remain a very good bowler for you. He is going ot play very few tests against WI/SL/Zim/BD. He will mostly feature in tests agasint good teams.

If I recall, Bumrah is averaging 9-12 against those teams. Not sure what additional information you are going to get if he picks up 200 wickets against them.

 

[Ahmed216]

Last time I watched such a dominating fast bowling performance was Mitch johnson in 2013 Ashes.

Bumrah was simply outstanding in this series. Period.

 

[Buffet]

Last time I watched such a dominating fast bowling performance was Mitch johnson in 2013 Ashes.

Bumrah was simply outstanding in this series. Period.

That was some series by Johnson. Anyone thinking about Johnson, that series will flash in mind.

 

[Pakhs]

400+ wickets? The best test pacer in history won't make that cut.

If you lack enough sample size against good teams or enough sample size for tough tours then you can't judge quality of players. Bumrah's output in both has a large sample size with great output. Among the best in tests against top sides and quality both.

Now if you want to argue that he needs to do stats pad against WI, SL, Zim, BD to achieve greatness in 3 format era to get 400+ wickets then it will ever happen. He will remain a very good bowler for you. He is going ot play very few tests against WI/SL/Zim/BD. He will mostly feature in tests agasint good teams.

If I recall, Bumrah is averaging 9-12 against those teams. Not sure what additional information you are going to get if he picks up 200 wickets against them.

Longevity itself is a challenge in Test cricket, as I mentioned in my previous post. It is a key factor in determining all-time greatness because a player must endure the physical demands, adapt to changes in the game, and maintain a high standard over a long period.

As for Bumrah, there's no certainty that he won’t get there, but the point is that he hasn’t yet. Longevity and accumulation of wickets take time, and until he reaches that milestone, discussions about ATG status remain premature.

Regarding other teams, unfortunately, Bumrah's career is unfolding in an era where Test cricket is largely limited to two or three competitive teams. This makes the format less versatile and challenging compared to previous generations. For that reason, standing the test of time becomes even more crucial, as there are fewer high-quality contests to prove sustained excellence over a long career.

 

[Devadwal]

OP once said :" Pakistan fans are most delusion and 99% don't know anything about cricket"

This thread proved that. Hahahahaha

 

[Devadwal]

Jasprit Bumrah is arguably the best fast bowler Asia has ever produced, and the year 2024 marked the absolute peak of his career. This assessment is not limited to his performances in Australia but encompasses his achievements across all formats throughout the year. His heroic efforts single-handedly secured India the T20 World Cup from an almost impossible position.

That said, maintaining such a high level of performance year after year is challenging, and we might witness a gradual decline in his form moving forward.

I have no issue with the original post (OP), as it's clear that many Pakistani posters are envious of Bumrah's achievements for obvious reasons. What stands out, however, is some posters who claim to be Indian fans have liked the post that is downgrading the performance of its strike bowler.

@Devadwal

They can't digest the fact that Bumrah has surpassed any Pakistani bowlers in history of cricket .

 

[Buffet]

Longevity itself is a challenge in Test cricket, as I mentioned in my previous post. It is a key factor in determining all-time greatness because a player must endure the physical demands, adapt to changes in the game, and maintain a high standard over a long period.

As for Bumrah, there's no certainty that he won’t get there, but the point is that he hasn’t yet. Longevity and accumulation of wickets take time, and until he reaches that milestone, discussions about ATG status remain premature.

Regarding other teams, unfortunately, Bumrah's career is unfolding in an era where Test cricket is largely limited to two or three competitive teams.

Longevity without elite test quality is good [ Lots of very good test bowlers fall here ]

Enough longevity with elite test quality is better. [ Bumrah falls in this list, only 8-10 tests bowlers fall here]

Longevity with elite test quality is best [ Not more than 5-6 bowlers fall in this category ]


---------------


Which era had lots of good test teams? Right now, Aus, Ind, Eng, NZ have good test teams. SA has a decent test team, but below those 4. Same situation in all era. No 5-7 years of periods had more than 3-4 good test teams.

That's why elite test bowlers rise to the occasion. They outperform others against good teams and also when playing away. Marshall/Hadlee did it in 80s. McGrath/Ambrose did in 90s. Steyn did in his era. Bumrah has done it in his era.

Bumrah does not have longevity of McGrath/Ambrose/Steyn/Marshall/Hadlee etc. But if you are not elite perfomer against good teams home and away both then longevity hardly makes you better.

Bumrah has the similar number of tests away against top teams compared to many elite test bowlers of past. He needs to have 50-60 more high quality test wickets at home( no, not against bottom tier or minnows that's not greatness, that's stats padding).

 

[chinaman00]

Outstanding post!

One really has to give it to the Indian hype machine. An average, at most slightly above average, bowler has been propelled to be the best Indian fast bowler of all time. Some in their delusion are even labeling him to be the best Asian fast bowler - never mind how ridiculous that sounds.

 

[Buffet]

Longevity itself is a challenge in Test cricket,

I agree to this. It's very challenging to have huge longevity.

For example, Anderson will be always remembred for his volume of wickets. It's insane. I don't think anyone is ever getting to that.

But the point I was making, No one will ever put Andersson in list of elite test bowler like Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Steyn etc due to his limitation. No amount of longevity can cover for lack of quality.

Now Longevity is sure a plus point if you make the cut as elite test bowler in the last 50-60 years or at least in your own era due to comparison being easier. It's not hard to see what Anderson did away from home vs another elite test bowler in his era. You can do the same in all era. Elite test bowlers are cut above the rest. Their competition should be with another elite test bowler and yes longevity will elevate them agaisnt each other.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Longevity without elite test quality is good [ Lots of very good test bowlers fall here ]

Enough longevity with elite test quality is better. [ Bumrah falls in this list, only 8-10 tests bowlers fall here]

Longevity with elite test quality is best [ Not more than 5-6 bowlers fall in this category ]


---------------


Which era had lots of good test teams? Right now, Aus, Ind, Eng, NZ have good test teams. SA has a decent test team, but below those 4. Same situation in all era. No 5-7 years of periods had more than 3-4 good test teams.

That's why elite test bowlers rise to the occasion. They outperform others against good teams and also when playing away. Marshall/Hadlee did it in 80s. McGrath/Ambrose did in 90s. Steyn did in his era. Bumrah has done it in his era.

Bumrah does not have longevity of McGrath/Ambrose/Steyn/Marshall/Hadlee etc. But if you are not elite perfomer against good teams home and away both then longevity hardly makes you better.

Bumrah has the similar number of tests away against top teams compared to many elite test bowlers of past. He needs to have 50-60 more high quality test wickets at home( no, not against bottom tier or minnows that's not greatness, that's stats padding).

So if His performance was so Elite and worthy of ATG discussion why would he end up on a side that got 3-1 Defeat handed to them and 4-1 was avoided due to Rain ?

Previous to That 3-0 Defeat against Bang Average NZ side that did not even have Williamson , and with Williamson they got their asses handed to them by England at home just last month proving how average they are

Bumrah made them win Perth test , Does not make Him ATG. It’s after all Just one Test Match. Boland matched him in Rest and we Do not see enough people Praising Boland

Longevity Matters in Test Cricket. Sustained Performance over longer periods is one criteria to Fall in ATG list. When India needed Bumrah in Sydney during 162 Defence , His Body Tapped out which means he Bent his back more than His body could Allow in previous Games.

T20 format performance does not warrant a place in ATG thats a fact