How are Naseem and Shaheen “getting back in form”?
I think Mir Hamza is underrated.
Naseem bowled pretty well today.
Pakistani batting was terrible in this series. Lots of passengers. Also Shaheen and Naseem have def turned a corner since they were dropped. Def more switched on.There are a lot of new fast bowlers coming up. Seales, Shamar Joseph. For instance in recent BD vs pak series, BD fast bowlers totally outbowled Pakistan fast bowlers
But BD batting is not exactly a celebrated batting line up. Most of them average in their 30s. Pakistan is a steady unit. They haven't reached a stage where they can bowl teams out 200 or under consistently for long periods. I agree Indian bowling is not the same force anymore with a loss of guys like Shami, exit of Umesh and others. But Pakistan fast bowling is turning course? I have not quiet followed it. So looked up for 2024 stats. Pakistan pace bowling averages 41. Worst among test nations for 2024. Do i miss something?
Pakistan bowlers don’t have the stamina or physical to last in red ball cricket. However most are fine white ball bowlers and a good overall white ball package. Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf and I highly rate Jamal and Abbas Afridi.
Do you have away stats. Pakistani pitches have been specially flat lately, making bowlers look worse than they areBut BD batting is not exactly a celebrated batting line up. Most of them average in their 30s. Pakistan is a steady unit. They haven't reached a stage where they can bowl teams out 200 or under consistently for long periods. I agree Indian bowling is not the same force anymore with a loss of guys like Shami, exit of Umesh and others. But Pakistan fast bowling is turning course? I have not quiet followed it. So looked up for 2024 stats. Pakistan pace bowling averages 41. Worst among test nations for 2024. Do i miss something?
I could be early to say, but Khurram Shahzad, Mir Hamza, and Amir Jamal is a good group developing for red ball. Naseem wasn’t poor today in his 2nd and 3rd spells.
This is showing away is now neck 2 neck. Pakistani Red ball pacers have been competitive away after a long time, and one could say that the purple patch of Indian fast bowling maybe behind us.Let me break it down to you
Fast bowlers in pakistan since Jan 1 , 2024 countrywise, Pakistan is distant third behind Bangladesh and England
Fast bowlers in away tours countrywise since Jan 1, 2024
Fast bowlers India/pakistan away tour Jan 1, 2024
I never said they are better. Maybe neck to neck at the min in red ball?
They need much larger sample size. Ability to run through sides. Siraj ran through SA at newlands picking 6 for 15. He did run through Australia at the Gabba in 2021. His current form is garbage. But India not playing Prasidh, Harshit is not their fault. Heck even Mukesh is better than Siraj right now.
I understand. However, bowling average accounts for run through clumps. Mir Hamza ran through Aussie top order, Amir Jamal did it, Khurram Shahzad did it once against Bangladesh on a flat road in Pindi, Naseem has a test hatrick and so forth.
Indian batting is garbage lol Probably at the worst. India is winning because of Indian bowlers. By the way SIraj destroyed SA on day 1 morning before even India batted. There is no real correlation. Ofcourse there are some pitches batsmen have to step up like at the MCG which is relatively flat compared to other pitches.
It’s still better than Pakistani batting.
But your entire hypothesis is on the basis of excluding Jasprit Bumrah which makes no sense.
I don't think so.
Let me clarify my intent. It's challenging to discuss Pakistani and Indian players without it turning into an emotional slugfest.
In the past 5-7 years, India undeniably had a better pace attack than Pakistan in red-ball cricket. This was significant because "pace is pace, yaar," and Pakistan has long been regarded as the "land of pacers." Yet, during that period, India's pacers outshone Pakistan's.
Fast forward to now: Shami is 35 and frequently injured, and India's options moving forward—Nitish Reddy, Harshit Rana, Prasidh Krishna, Bumrah, and Siraj—don’t seem clearly superior as a pack to Pakistan's current crop of Khurram Shahzad, Mir Hamza, Amir Jamal, Naseem Shah, and Shaheen Shah Afridi.
The question is whether we’re witnessing an inflection point—a shift in the status quo—especially when comparing recent performances in Australia as a common factor.
This thread isn’t about what happened four years ago or claiming that Pakistan is a better Test team than India (it isn’t). India has won Tests in SENA, whereas Pakistan hasn’t. This is about the current state of both pace attacks and whether the balance is tipping.
India has a lot of youngsters coming through. Anshul kamboj, Deshpande, Vyshak, PRasidh. Arshdeep has a lot of potential to become a long format players. Already played county cricket. From the under-19 Hangarkekar, Kartik Tyagi whose potential is yet to be tapped.
Let me clarify my intent. It's challenging to discuss Pakistani and Indian players without it turning into an emotional slugfest.
In the past 5-7 years, India undeniably had a better pace attack than Pakistan in red-ball cricket. This was significant because "pace is pace, yaar," and Pakistan has long been regarded as the "land of pacers." Yet, during that period, India's pacers outshone Pakistan's.
Fast forward to now: Shami is 35 and frequently injured, and India's options moving forward—Nitish Reddy, Harshit Rana, Prasidh Krishna, Bumrah, and Siraj—don’t seem clearly superior as a pack to Pakistan's current crop of Khurram Shahzad, Mir Hamza, Amir Jamal, Naseem Shah, and Shaheen Shah Afridi.
The question is whether we’re witnessing an inflection point—a shift in the status quo—especially when comparing recent performances in Australia as a common factor.
This thread isn’t about what happened four years ago or claiming that Pakistan is a better Test team than India (it isn’t). India has won Tests in SENA, whereas Pakistan hasn’t. This is about the current state of both pace attacks and whether the balance is tipping.
There is a long and arduous journey from youngster to established red ball pacer.
I have no doubt there are talented youngsters coming through the ranks.
There is.
Siraj should have been replaced by Prasidh or someone else. He has been garbage for a while. His average is still good here. Akash is a better bowler than him. Rana should be given a run as well. Cannot expect them to click right away in the first series as Rana is only 22.
And where has India bowled badly?
Thing is India has the infra/systems to facilitate this journey.
As a unit 2021 at the gabba was weaker than this. Probably the weakest ever. Apart from Siraj nobody from that group that bowled here. No Nattu, No saini, No Thakur.
Maybe it was the weather. But when Aussies are bowling, it looks a “lot quicker” as if there are “overcast conditions”. Is the weather timing whose innings it is
In Test cricket, you need a group of 4-5 quality pacers. When I asked about India's options, you mentioned Bumrah and Siraj again. Siraj is a good bowler and has had his moments, but I don’t rate him in the same league as Shami.
Shaheen has played 6 years of cricket. And the history of Pak pace bowlers in the last 20 years suggest that Pak simply does not have the systems to make sure "pacers peak later in their careers". Junaid, Amir etc also came in with same hype but their best red ball exploits were in the earlier parts of their career.
It’s true injuries/scandals cut careers short
@Muhammad Saad
Well this aged like milk ...as you'd expect.
I ask myself that every day with you.Well this aged like milk ...as you'd expect.
Pakistan getting pasted for 300/3 against the worst South African batting line-up of all time while their trundler army is huffing and puffing to even cross 130 kph.
It's almost as if being delusional always ends up in tears.
Well this aged like milk ...as you'd expect.
Pakistan getting pasted for 300/3 against the worst South African batting line-up of all time while their trundler army is huffing and puffing to even cross 130 kph.
It's almost as if being delusional always ends up in tears.
You can never embarass me for i am automatically superior to you as a human being.Shoo away , snowflake.
Stop wailing atleast when I am not embarassing you.
Why go back in history when you have the Pakistani glucose attack display their expertise infront of our very eyes?
I agree. This is a poor era for Pak seamers by the looks of it.Why go back in history when you have the Pakistani glucose attack display their expertise infront of our very eyes?
Who's the owner of canva? An aussie or a Malysian Aussie?They're not going to accept you as their own no matter how hard you try , snowflake. Stop pretending to be someone you're obviously not , while you get called all kinds of slurs everyday and live like a rat under their foot.
You are a Pakistani living in Australia...not an Australian. Shitéhole mentality gonna remain no matter where you go.
But it's not surprise as I'm richer and of a higher class then you
'keech ke rakho'They're not going to accept you as their own no matter how hard you try , snowflake. Stop pretending to be someone you're obviously not , while you get called all kinds of slurs everyday and live like a rat under their foot.
You are a Pakistani living in Australia...not an Australian. Shitéhole mentality gonna remain no matter where you go.
I'm richer then you.Spoken truly like a broke cabbie or a retail worker who cries his insecure soul to sleep after living like a rat the whole day and spends entire nights on internet forums acting like a snowflake. You ain't rich , broda.
The only thing he's keech fying is your daddy'keech ke rakho'
Over exaggerated, sorry to say. Waqar had much better stat than Shami. All time ODI bowler with 195 wickets!!
To be fair. In modern era people don't take part in every goddamn ODIs. Back then that was the only pyjama format. So they played in all the ODIs. Waqar played 200 ODIs in his first 10 years. Shami played only 100 in his first 10 yeasr. Bowlers pick and choose to play ODIs these days. He doesn't miss world cups though.
You are right. But it also reflects the longevity and level of fitness the generation of Waqar Wasim had back then. To play such number of matches plus long county cricket season for long time doesn't match with present generation of pacers who gets injured very frequently like Shami even after choosing which format or which matches to play .
Well this aged like milk ...as you'd expect.
Pakistan getting pasted for 300/3 against the worst South African batting line-up of all time while their trundler army is huffing and puffing to even cross 130 kph.
It's almost as if being delusional always ends up in tears.
One of the most clueless poster lol Good entertainment though.Lol It won't become a better attack just because you say it blindly.
And most of those guys are not even India's first choice or even second choice pace options. Reddy is a batting allrounder. Seems like you've completely lost it after the phainta today.
Anyways..keep celebrating the return of phasst bowling glory to your nation.
They aren’t “first choice” anymore that’s for sure. Which is my point. Pakistan bowling currently is Ok, but Indian bowling is club level. You all should pray Shami has some gas left in him at 35, because the way Bumrah is being abused, he might be gone for long.Lol It won't become a better attack just because you say it blindly.
And most of those guys are not even India's first choice or even second choice pace options. Reddy is a batting allrounder. Seems like you've completely lost it after the phainta today.
Anyways..keep celebrating the return of phasst bowling glory to your nation.
He was overused by Rohit in the last match.
A bowler playing a Test match is meant to be overused.
Bumrah is not a workhorse bowler like Ishant sharma. Bumrah is doing the job of Ishant now. He is a strike bowler. Others have to share the load.
You can't even afford doordash you slumdog peasant. I bet you're a woman, not even a man aka a waitress at an Internet cafe you effeminate peasant.It's okay uncle.
Now try getting some sleep before you have to wake up and do doordash tomorrow morning.
If you are playing a Test match, there is no workload management during the game. If you want to manage workload, then just skip the match.
