Britain bans Hamas (update #41)

[Gilly]

Hamas have admitted kidnapping three young people.

Meanwhile a senior Hamas leader, Saleh Arouri, told a conference in Turkey the group carried out the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June - the first time anyone from the Islamic militant group has said it was behind an attack that helped spark the current war in the Gaza Strip.

"It was an operation by your brothers from the al-Qassam Brigades," he said, saying Hamas hoped to exchange the youths for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

Hamas has repeatedly praised the kidnappings, but Arouri, the group's exiled West Bank leader, is the first member to claim responsibility.

The kidnappings on June 12, along with the discovery of the youths' bodies two weeks later, sparked a broad Israeli crackdown on Hamas members throughout the West Bank.

Hamas responded with heavy rocket fire out of the Gaza Strip, leading Israel to launch an aerial and ground invasion of the territory.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/08/22/gaza-strikes-kill-4-eu-pushes-truce-plan

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Israeli police believe otherwise. This isn't a Hamas official line but one member's quote.

They are not just some teens but young men living in illegal settlements. Legitimate targets for capture to exchange Palestinian prisoners. Their killing was not in the interest of the resistance.

 

[Down2Earth]

And do israel as a democratic country admit to killing thousands of children?

 

[Yossarian]

Israel pays upto $2,000 for university students to go on social media websites and news forums to post pro-Israel messages. In addition, they can also receive full or partial scholarships
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

From the way Gilly takes every opportunity to promote pro-Israel views and counter any anti-Israel postings, it's highly likely that Gilly is one of those mentioned above. He is probably very generously rewarded by the Israeli's.

 

[Saeed]

Israel is pathetic. May the population get their freedom from bunch of Polish and Russians.

 

[CricketCartoons]

^ How to contact them? i would love to be their lackey for that money.

 

[Saeed]

Israel pays upto $2,000 for university students to go on social media websites and news forums to post pro-Israel messages. In addition, they can also receive full or partial scholarships
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

From the way Gilly takes every opportunity to promote pro-Israel views and counter any anti-Israel postings, it's highly likely that Gilly is one of those mentioned above. He is probably very generously rewarded by the Israeli's.

+1, Gilly is a Hasbara troll.

 

[in_cutter]

Hamas admit to kidnapping and murdering teenagers.

Seems Gilly is quick to post pro-Israeli propaganda.

Israeli police have already admitted that Hamas was not responsible.

 

[Yossarian]

+1, Gilly is a Hasbara troll.

You have to wonder. Someone claiming to be an Australian, spending a significant amount of his time on Time Pass, of a predominantly Pakistani website, promoting pro-Israel views and countering anything anti-Israel. Even to the extent of trawling the internet looking for anthing that can show Israel in a good light and then copy/pasting that to make postings on websites such as PP. As I said, the israeli's must be rewrading him very generously

 

[RWAC]

If it's true, Gilly please hook me up with the gig.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[s28]

Pakpassion should charge Gilly for any messages posted as he is clearly advertising using their forums

 

[Madplayer]

gilly you seem to be a spokesperson for a couple of organizations now. clearly a zionist who has moved to australia.

 

[Gilly]

gilly you seem to be a spokesperson for a couple of organizations now. clearly a zionist who has moved to australia.

What is so bad about being a Zionist?.

 

[godzilla]

"It was an operation by your brothers from the al-Qassam Brigades," he said

Arouri, the group's exiled West Bank leade

if hes exiled does he speak for hamas? is the al qassam brigade he says was responsible an excommunicated group or an operational hamas wing? the article isnt clear at all that it was hamas. also, who are sbs.com?

ny magazine are a reputable source - their headline has changes since first writing about hwo it wasnt hamas, but reading the details its still clear this was a lone cell, not hamas: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

bbc journo confirming the same: https://twitter.com/JonDonnison/status/492632584736612353

 

[justarslan]

If it's true, Gilly please hook me up with the gig.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We thought all you Indians on PP were already on BCCI's payroll like Sunil Gavaskar.

 

[RWAC]

We thought all you Indians on PP were already on BCCI's payroll like Sunil Gavaskar.

Some extra $$$ on the side doesn't hurt. Besides, it's not like this would be a conflict of interest situation either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OZGOD]

I know that sometimes people say provocative things, but ad hominem attacks really tend to bring down the debating tone in this forum. We're all entitled to our opinions right? King Khan was really the only one who stuck to topic.

On topic, while I tend to agree that people who deliberately live in illegal settlements put themselves in harms way, it's never right to kill people. That goes for both Hamas firing rockets, kidnapping civilians, and Israel responding by pounding schools and other heavily populated civilian areas. Unfortunately in this civil war nobody cares if civilians die. Also, we tend to think of Hamas as an amorphous whole with a command and control system similar to an army when it may not be so. By nature it is a guerrilla outfit made up of cells which can choose to do their own thing. I doubt the Hamas leadership would have wanted a) these kidnappings to happen and b) the teenagers to be killed.

 

[Madplayer]

What is so bad about being a Zionist?.

where did i say that

 

[Madplayer]

I know that sometimes people say provocative things, but ad hominem attacks really tend to bring down the debating tone in this forum. We're all entitled to our opinions right? King Khan was really the only one who stuck to topic.

On topic, while I tend to agree that people who deliberately live in illegal settlements put themselves in harms way, it's never right to kill people. That goes for both Hamas firing rockets, kidnapping civilians, and Israel responding by pounding schools and other heavily populated civilian areas. Unfortunately in this civil war nobody cares if civilians die. Also, we tend to think of Hamas as an amorphous whole with a command and control system similar to an army when it may not be so. By nature it is a guerrilla outfit made up of cells which can choose to do their own thing. I doubt the Hamas leadership would have wanted a) these kidnappings to happen and b) the teenagers to be killed.

these are all speculations. hamas never accepted the charge and its just israel who is claiming that hamas did it. there are theories that its israel who sponsered the kidnapping of those teenagers to instigate a war in order to expand the settlements.

also read yossarian's post which he made earlier in this thread. its obvious who gilly is and what his agenda is

 

[Indiafan]

We thought all you Indians on PP were already on BCCI's payroll like Sunil Gavaskar.

Some are for BCCI, some for RAW, some for zionist, some for CIA. some for hindutva. Quick money

 

[irfan]

What is so bad about being a Zionist?.

So you believe in settler colonialism, racism & ethnic cleansing, these elements are built into Zionism.

 

[Gilly]

"It was an operation by your brothers from the al-Qassam Brigades," he said

Arouri, the group's exiled West Bank leade

if hes exiled does he speak for hamas? is the al qassam brigade he says was responsible an excommunicated group or an operational hamas wing? the article isnt clear at all that it was hamas. also, who are sbs.com?

ny magazine are a reputable source - their headline has changes since first writing about hwo it wasnt hamas, but reading the details its still clear this was a lone cell, not hamas: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

bbc journo confirming the same: https://twitter.com/JonDonnison/status/492632584736612353

From the link you provided godzila, it answers a lot of questions you ask:

Soon after three Israel teenagers were kidnapped last month, Israeli officials leaked to the press the name of the Hamas operational commander who is believed to be behind a recent surge in kidnapping plots. It was a familiar one for those who follow Hamas closely: Salah al-Arouri, a longtime Hamas operative from the West Bank, who lives openly in Turkey. Now, with the boys’ bodies found and the funerals over, Israeli security forces continue to hunt down the two Hebron-based Hamas operatives believed to have actually carried out the plot. Yet observers and experts are sure to eventually circle back to Arouri, who has been a key figure behind Hamas’ efforts to rejuvenate the group’s terrorist networks in the West Bank.

 

[Yossarian]

From the link you provided godzila, it answers a lot of questions you ask:

Continue earning the dosh from the Israeli's, you've got a steady earner there. Don't let facts get in your way.

From the same source you quoted from.

Israeli police spokes Mickey Rosenfeld also said if kidnapping had been ordered by Hamas leadership, they'd have known about it in advance.

By "they", he means the Israeli security and intelligence services.

 

[Gilly]

So you believe in settler colonialism, racism & ethnic cleansing, these elements are built into Zionism.

Were you told this at one of your secret meetings or have you studied Zionism?.

 

[godzilla]

From the link you provided godzila, it answers a lot of questions you ask:

why have you been so selective in your quotes from that article? is it on purpose?

"But now, Israeli officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all. (Update: The comments from the Israeli spokesperson in question indicate that the group thought to be responsible, a "lone cell," may not have been under direct orders from Hamas's leadership, but was loosely affiliated with the group. The headline of this post has been changed to reflect that discrepancy. See below for more.)"

"After Israel's top leadership exhaustively blamed Hamas for kidnap of 3 teens, they've now admitted killers were acting as "lone cell.""

"Repeated inconsistencies in Israeli descriptions of the situation have sparked debate over whether Israel wanted to provoke Hamas into a confrontation"

"Israeli police MickeyRosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership1/2"

and in response to the decontextualised quote you very tellingly quoted:

"For those asking, I stick by 100% tweets regarding comments made to me by Israeli police spokes Mickey Rosenfeld. He said it. Period. 1/2"

"And what's more I suspect what he said is common knowledge in Israeli intelligence circles. 2/2"

given that blatant bit of editing, can you blame people here for thinking you might have an agenda?

 

[Gilly]

why have you been so selective in your quotes from that article? is it on purpose?

Yes it was on purpose, I answered the questions you asked, I didn't quote on things you didn't ask.

Just on a side note is your position that the Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld's word is to be taken as truth and Hamas operational commander Salah al-Arouri is a liar. Just asking so I know where we stand, If I have put you in a position you feel uncomfortable I respect your decision to leave this question unanswered.

 

[90MPH]

I have said this many times and I will say it again.

Even if "Hamas members" took part in the kidnapping it had not been sanctioned:
- by the ruling Hamas goverment in Gaza
- it was nothing to do with GAZA. The murders were in the West Bank.

Yet Israel decided to start this 3rd War in 5 years against Gaza.

You know the truth is Israel only understands the language of Force.
They have Indirectly been Negotiating with Hamas many times over prisoners.

Yet they have humiliated and castigated the moderate secular PA lead by Mahmood Abbas giving him nothing.

Above all I will ask any supporter of Israel like Gilly why are Jewish settlements being built in occupied West Bank ??
Israel only wants the status quo or war to keep them going.

 

[Vegitto1]

How convenient, Israel says Hamas isn't involved. The whole world is supporting Palestinians, Even pro-Israelis have said that Israel has gone too far and suddenly a single Hamas leader comes out and says "oh in fact we did kidnap and kill Israeli teens"

How so convenient!

 

[Yossarian]

Yes it was on purpose, I answered the questions you asked, I didn't quote on things you didn't ask.

Just on a side note is your position that the Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld's word is to be taken as truth and Hamas operational commander Salah al-Arouri is a liar. Just asking so I know where we stand, If I have put you in a position you feel uncomfortable I respect your decision to leave this question unanswered.

It was in Israeli interest to say Hamas was responsible. So for the Israeli spokesman to now say Hamas was not involved means that even they realise that there are only so many lies thay can tell before even their own allies stop believing them. They need to retain some sort of credibility with their own friends so that their lies will still be believed the next time. For now, this lie has done it's job - it gave them the excuse to launch their attacks, so no harm in coming clean on this one now. In fact they will actually gain by coming clean now, as it gives them the opportunity to convince the public of their allies that they are the good guys.

 

[Gilly]

It was in Israeli interest to say Hamas was responsible. So for the Israeli spokesman to now say Hamas was not involved means that even they realise that there are only so many lies thay can tell before even their own allies stop believing them. They need to retain some sort of credibility with their own friends so that their lies will still be believed the next time. For now, this lie has done it's job - it gave them the excuse to launch their attacks, so no harm in coming clean on this one now. In fact they will actually gain by coming clean now, as it gives them the opportunity to convince the public of their allies that they are the good guys.

So your position is that Hamas operational commander Salah al-Arouri is a out and out liar who does not tell the truth.

 

[Yossarian]

So your position is that Hamas operational commander Salah al-Arouri is a out and out liar who does not tell the truth.

No, I don't have any such position. I can understand, as I've explained, the reasons why the Israeli's now may wish to come clean and say Hamas was not involved. As for the fella you mention, I have no idea whatsoever as to his reasons for saying what he's supposedly said, or even to what extent he has/had links with the Hamas leadership. Even you would, or should, have realised by now, whilst you were cashing your Israeli cheques, that in that part of the world, there's spin within spin within spin and it's not always obvious as to the motives behind what these 'spokesmen' say.

 

[Gilly]

No, I don't have any such position. I can understand, as I've explained, the reasons why the Israeli's now may wish to come clean and say Hamas was not involved. As for the fella you mention, I have no idea whatsoever as to his reasons for saying what he's supposedly said, or even to what extent he has/had links with the Hamas leadership. Even you would, or should, have realised by now, whilst you were cashing your Israeli cheques, that in that part of the world, there's spin within spin within spin and it's not always obvious as to the motives behind what these 'spokesmen' say.

So you don't believe that Salah al-Arouri is the Hamas operational commander and the reporter who reported it was making up lies. So your position is now the reporter made up lies about Hamas.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

So you don't believe that Salah al-Arouri is the Hamas operational commander and the reporter who reported it was making up lies. So your position is now the reporter made up lies about Hamas.

How does this go along with the Israel statement that those responsible were from a 'lone cell'

Mickey Rosenfield is the name you're looking for

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you don't believe that Salah al-Arouri is the Hamas operational commander and the reporter who reported it was making up lies. So your position is now the reporter made up lies about Hamas.

He's not commander of operations. You've never heard of the real operational commander, his photos are rare and name not mentioned regularly by Hamas or Israel who have failed to assassinate him many times. Only the Hamas leader has direct contact with him.

This bloke has been in exile for over a decade. His comments have not been confirmed by any other Hamas official.

 

[Gilly]

He's not commander of operations. You've never heard of the real operational commander, his photos are rare and name not mentioned regularly by Hamas or Israel who have failed to assassinate him many times. Only the Hamas leader has direct contact with him.

This bloke has been in exile for over a decade. His comments have not been confirmed by any other Hamas official.

I would have thought you would have posted links to Hamas denying these claims that they were responsible for the kidnapping and murdering of the three teenagers.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Gilly are you still pretending to be a neutral?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I would have thought you would have posted links to Hamas denying these claims that they were responsible for the kidnapping and murdering of the three teenagers.

It's common knowledge, they denied these claims before the Israeli's invaded Gaza.

Besides you're the expert in finding Hamas related news.

 

[Yossarian]

So you don't believe that Salah al-Arouri is the Hamas operational commander and the reporter who reported it was making up lies. So your position is now the reporter made up lies about Hamas.

The Israeli's need to re-evaluate what they're paying you, since it appears you have difficulity reading and/or understanding. I would have thought my previous post was clear enough for even someone with your Israeli rose-tinted glasses. I suggest you read it again. And this time try and understand it.

 

[godzilla]

Yes it was on purpose, I answered the questions you asked, I didn't quote on things you didn't ask.

Just on a side note is your position that the Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld's word is to be taken as truth and Hamas operational commander Salah al-Arouri is a liar. Just asking so I know where we stand, If I have put you in a position you feel uncomfortable I respect your decision to leave this question unanswered.

im afraid either you have comprehension issues or i have or both of us do.

1) your article quotes "Hamas leader, Saleh Arouri" but then goes on to say, "Arouri, the group's exiled West Bank leader" - quite apart from the inconsistency, if he is indeed exiled, how well placed is he to answer for and represent hamas?

2) those were the questions i asked - or more precisely: "if hes exiled does he speak for hamas? is the al qassam brigade he says was responsible an excommunicated group or an operational hamas wing? the article isnt clear at all that it was hamas. also, who are sbs.com?"

3) the article i included, from a very reputable source as opposed to yours (although you had the opportunity to establish the source which you declined by absence), answers the question to some degree by a repeated mention of the perpetrators as being perhaps linked to hamas but operating independently - and therefore very clearly not hamas, just as settlers murdering children might not be acting on behalf of the israeli government.

how is disingenuously misrepresenting an article, answer the questions i asked? context illustrates very clearly that the one quote you chose to include means the opposite of what you intimate - its not an issue of chosing not to include irrelevant detail, its decontextualising to change the meaning. thats very underhanded and cowardly im afraid.

with regards to rosenfeld, as mentioned already in the quotes ive supplied, its very difficult to see how he would concoct this information since it would be so heavily a case of being hoister by his own petard. with regards to al-asouri, it is absolutely not clear whether he stating opinion, fact or whether he is speculating. from the information you have provided on him, namely he being exiled and in the west bank, and matching that with multiple reports that the kidnappings were carried out by a rogue group, an answer consistent with all that information is that his commentary was speculation.

so to answer your questions directly: because the bbc reporter who spoke directly to rosenfeld felt strongly enough that he reported accurately what he heard, by mentioning it several times, i believe that rosenfelds words with regards to non-hamas involvement ought to be taken as truth. because we dont know arouri's involvement with hamas at the time of his quotes, or the time of the attacks, or whether he was speculating or stating fact, i believe until further information is received to corroborate, it is prudent to take his words as speculation. naturally, with respect to your simplistic and puerile provocation, there are more options than him being a liar or not.

if highlighting your astonishingly blatant bias is something you feel uncomfortable with, i respect your choice to ignore this message or to answer with another non sequitur. i wonder, just so i know where we stand, why it is that you would deliberately choose to misrepresent that article using such an explicit hatchet quote job, and would go so far out of your way to misrepresent the truth as we know it. is it because you want to deliberately mislead people, and if so, why? if you feel uncomfortable to answer etc etc.

 

[srh]

Hamas is no angel. They also have some responsibility in killing of innocent Palestinians at the hands of Israel.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-set-proscribe-hamas-terrorist-organisation-uk-media-reports-2021-11-19/

Britain's interior minister Priti Patel on Friday said she had banned the Palestinian militant group Hamas in a move that brings the UK's stance on Gaza's rulers in line with the United States and the European Union.

"Hamas has significant terrorist capability, including access to extensive and sophisticated weaponry, as well as terrorist training facilities," Patel said in a statement.

"That is why today I have acted to proscribe Hamas in its entirety."

The organisation would be banned under the Terrorism Act and anyone expressing support for Hamas, flying its flag or arranging meetings for the organisation would be in breach of the law, the interior ministry confirmed. Patel is expected to present the change to parliament next week.

Hamas has political and military wings. Founded in 1987, it opposes the existence of Israel and peace talks, instead advocating "armed resistance" against Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories.

Until now Britain had banned only its military arm — the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

Hamas political official Sami Abu Zuhri said Britain's move showed "absolute bias toward the Israeli occupation and is a submission to Israeli blackmail and dictations".

"Resisting occupation by all available means, including armed resistance, is a right granted to people under occupation as stated by the international law," said Hamas in a separate statement.

The Palestinian Mission to the United Kingdom, which represents President Mahmoud Abbas's Western-backed Palestinian Authority, also condemned the move.

Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett welcomed the decision, saying on Twitter: "Hamas is a terrorist organization, simply put. The 'political arm' enables its military activity."

Hamas and Israel clashed most recently in a deadly 11-day conflict in May. During the second Palestinian uprising two decades ago, Hamas suicide bombers killed hundreds of Israelis, a campaign publicly backed by its political wing.

'STRENGTHENING TIES'

In 2017 Patel was forced to resign as Britain's international development secretary after she failed to disclose meetings with senior Israeli officials during a private holiday to the country, including then-opposition leader Yair Lapid.

Lapid, now Israel's foreign minister, hailed the decision on Hamas as "part of strengthening ties with Britain".

Hamas is on the U.S. list of designated foreign terrorist organisations. The European Union also deems it a terrorist movement.

Based in Gaza, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian parliamentary election, defeating its nationalist rival Fatah. It seized military control of Gaza the following year.