Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

[Aman]

lol, no.

Rohit has a better claim to that and he's actually a lot better than Smith, Kane and Root in LOIs.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

One thing going for Babar is he's a clutch player.

Performs under pressure. Did better than all the other Fab 4/5s at the freaking World Cup!

That has cemented his spot in the Fab 4 already, especially in ODIs. Joe Root is now displaced from the ODIs, he's not in the Fab 4 anymore.

Kohli too has been struggling a lot to perform at the big stage, when it matters. Spectacular failures so far in World Cups.

If we only consider this factor then Babar is above the rest. But this is not the only factor, though it does matter.

I'm not counting Tests, where Babar has to work a bit more. He's too new.

Kohli scored 443
Babar scored 474
And somehow kohli is failure and babar was a sucess at the world cup.

He hasn't performed in any KO match so hang on before giving him the clutch tag.

 

[Ab Fan]

Fab four was mostly termed to the four players who have been leading their nation's batting from an young age and have been the backbone of the lineup. A major qualification is greatness in tests. Each of the four were also round about the same age.

All four are elite test batters while Kohli is a legendary LO batsmen as well.

Babar doesn't really belong to that age group and if things go well for him, we can expect him to average close to 50 in test cricket by 28-29 as well. It's a long process as he averages less than 40 currently but he has age and skills sets to get close to that.

So, for now, its only fair to term the Fab four as "Fab four" only while the rest like Warner, Rohit, Buttler, Bairstow or Pujara comes behind the quartet.

If anyone is closest to the Fab four, then it's Quinton de kock.

 

[Titan24]

Fab four was mostly termed to the four players who have been leading their nation's batting from an young age and have been the backbone of the lineup. A major qualification is greatness in tests. Each of the four were also round about the same age.

All four are elite test batters while Kohli is a legendary LO batsmen as well.

Babar doesn't really belong to that age group and if things go well for him, we can expect him to average close to 50 in test cricket by 28-29 as well. It's a long process as he averages less than 40 currently but he has age and skills sets to get close to that.

So, for now, its only fair to term the Fab four as "Fab four" only while the rest like Warner, Rohit, Buttler, Bairstow or Pujara comes behind the quartet.

If anyone is closest to the Fab four, then it's Quinton de kock.

Finished with an odd comment. How come De Kock is closest to fab 4 with avg of 38 in tests (And you were mentioning greatness in test as one of the criteria) while Babar is not with 3 less in test average but 8 more in ODIs and 20 more in T20s?

 

[Hyperion66]

Finished with an odd comment. How come De Kock is closest to fab 4 with avg of 38 in tests (And you were mentioning greatness in test as one of the criteria) while Babar is not with 3 less in test average but 8 more in ODIs and 20 more in T20s?

Eaxctly, I don't know how could people rate DeKock so high, he will do good to retire with a career like Faf, I a seen enough of him to form this opinion.

 

[Titan24]

Fact is Babar will be at his peak in 3-5 years when most of the Fab 4 will be in the twilight of their careers. Even being mentioned in the same breath as Kohli, Smith, Williamson and Root (when they are at the peak of their abilities) in any of the formats is a pretty big achievement for a 25 year old guy like Babar and I think we can all agree on that irrespective of whether he is in fab 4-5 or not.

 

[BaankeJi]

Inshallah!
We want to see as many Fabs as possible.

 

[Mobashir]

Kohli did not get to bat for long during the world cup. Rohit was dominating, so he was happy to play the second fiddle and sometimes even third when Dhawan/Rahul were going well.

We saw what happened when he eventually got all the time vs NZ.

 

[Mobashir]

On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Kohli scored 443
Babar scored 474
And somehow kohli is failure and babar was a sucess at the world cup.

He hasn't performed in any KO match so hang on before giving him the clutch tag.

Are you talking about Kohli or Babar?

 

[Ab Fan]

Finished with an odd comment. How come De Kock is closest to fab 4 with avg of 38 in tests (And you were mentioning greatness in test as one of the criteria) while Babar is not with 3 less in test average but 8 more in ODIs and 20 more in T20s?

De Kock is a wicket-keeper batsmen.Wicket-keeper batsmen don't average 50 at their peak unless the name is Gilchrist. Even Gilly ended with a career average of 46.

An average of 38 as wicket-keeper is equivalent to 45 for a specialist bat assuming the sample is huge. He has five test hundreds already which is very good for a wicket-keeper batsmen coming at 7.

However, his failures in World Cups and inconsistency in tests puts him behind the Fab four. His age is also near to the ages of Fab four.

 

[Titan24]

De Kock is a wicket-keeper batsmen.Wicket-keeper batsmen don't average 50 at their peak unless the name is Gilchrist. Even Gilly ended with a career average of 46.

An average of 38 as wicket-keeper is equivalent to 45 for a specialist bat assuming the sample is huge. He has five test hundreds already which is very good for a wicket-keeper batsmen coming at 7.

However, his failures in World Cups and inconsistency in tests puts him behind the Fab four. His age is also near to the ages of Fab four.

His role in the team, style of play and performances across the formats is completely different from Fab 4 along with his numbers as well.

Even Gilchrist is considered the best WK batsman in tests but was never compared with the best batsmen of his time due to his role coming at no 7 was completely different and even his record which was great for a keeper batsman wasnt comparable to the likes of Kallis, Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid, Inzi etc.

QDK is an excellent player but I am not sure averaging 38 in tests and that too batting at no 7 irrespective of being keeper or not makes him part of so called Fab 5. He doesnt average even 50 in any of the formats.

 

[Ag78]

Azam has a lot of ground to cover before he can be compared with some of the top Test players going around. I guess his best in Test cricket is yet to come. He's just 25. A long way to go.

 

[Mesozoic]

We saw what happened when he eventually got all the time vs NZ.

Failing in one game doesn't change the fact that Kohli is leagues above Babar irrespective of the format.

On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.

Making a few pretty fifties doesn't make you as good as Kohli and better than Williamson. Babar is not a top 5 batsman in any format. (not even top 15 in Tests honestly).

Until he gets a few test hundreds and impact full white ball knocks against top teams , he has no business with the Fab 4 or 5.

 

[Hitman]

On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.

) In John McEnroe's words, "You cannot be serious".

 

[Hitman]

Making a few pretty fifties doesn't make you as good as Kohli and better than Williamson. Babar is not a top 5 batsman in any format. (not even top 15 in Tests honestly).

Until he gets a few test hundreds and impact full white ball knocks against top teams , he has no business with the Fab 4 or 5.

Pretty accurate.

 

[Titan24]

Failing in one game doesn't change the fact that Kohli is leagues above Babar irrespective of the format.



Making a few pretty fifties doesn't make you as good as Kohli and better than Williamson. Babar is not a top 5 batsman in any format. (not even top 15 in Tests honestly).

Until he gets a few test hundreds and impact full white ball knocks against top teams , he has no business with the Fab 4 or 5.

If he isnt top 5 in any format how come ODIs rankings show him as no 3 while T20s at no 1?

 

[Hitman]

If he isnt top 5 in any format how come ODIs rankings show him as no 3 while T20s at no 1?

He is top 5 in the ODI and T20 format.

 

[Mesozoic]

We saw what happened when he eventually got all the time vs NZ.

On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.

If he isnt top 5 in any format how come ODIs rankings show him as no 3 while T20s at no 1?

Because player rankings are a farce.

Kohli, Rohit, Warner, Williamson and Butler are top 5 odi batters.

Rohit, Warner, Kohli, Maxwell and Butler are top 5 in T20. (in no particular order)

 

[shah_1]

It all depends on this series

He will smash against SL and Bangladesh bowlers, and he can average close to 45.

 

[Mobashir]

Failing in one game doesn't change the fact that Kohli is leagues above Babar irrespective of the format.



Making a few pretty fifties doesn't make you as good as Kohli and better than Williamson. Babar is not a top 5 batsman in any format. (not even top 15 in Tests honestly).

Until he gets a few test hundreds and impact full white ball knocks against top teams , he has no business with the Fab 4 or 5.

There are two different things:
- One is the stature as a cricketer because of what you have already achieved, and in that regard Babar isn't anyway near the top 20 Batsmen in the world.
- second thing is to see who is the best player in a given match and in that regard Babar is a top 10 batsman in every format without the shadow of a doubt.

Talking about impactful innings, India would love to have a Babar in the semi final.
On a pitch that was lot more Difficult Babar played the innings of the world cup.

 

[Mobashir]

Failing in one game doesn't change the fact that Kohli is leagues above Babar irrespective of the format.



Making a few pretty fifties doesn't make you as good as Kohli and better than Williamson. Babar is not a top 5 batsman in any format. (not even top 15 in Tests honestly).

Until he gets a few test hundreds and impact full white ball knocks against top teams , he has no business with the Fab 4 or 5.

Pretty accurate.

He is top 5 in the ODI and T20 format.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] you better start by making up your mind about what you think.
First you think that Babar not top 5 in any format is pretty accurate and then you state Babar is top 5 in 2 out of 3 formats.

 

[Mobashir]

Because player rankings are a farce.

Kohli, Rohit, Warner, Williamson and Butler are top 5 odi batters.

Rohit, Warner, Kohli, Maxwell and Butler are top 5 in T20. (in no particular order)

Now that is beyond all jokes.

Rohit averages 29 in T20 internationals against SENA teams. Warner averages 23 agains those teams and Babar averages 57 against those same teams at the same strike rate as Rohit.

Rohit is a very good batsman but not in the league of Babar. Warner, lol!

Even Kohli averages just 44 against those top team with 11 fifties in 40 innings whereas Babar has 8 in just 17 innings.

And mind you Kohli has 3 straight fifties in Australia against a C grade attack.

To be the best you have to score against the best and in that regard, Babar is well ahead of other batsmen in T20's.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Are you talking about Kohli or Babar?

Both.

 

[Mesozoic]

Now that is beyond all jokes.

Rohit averages 29 in T20 internationals against SENA teams. Warner averages 23 agains those teams and Babar averages 57 against those same teams at the same strike rate as Rohit.

Rohit is a very good batsman but not in the league of Babar. Warner, lol!

Even Kohli averages just 44 against those top team with 11 fifties in 40 innings whereas Babar has 8 in just 17 innings.

And mind you Kohli has 3 straight fifties in Australia against a C grade attack.

To be the best you have to score against the best and in that regard, Babar is well ahead of other batsmen in T20's.

No team would ever pick Babar over Warner, Kohli, Rohit, Maxwell, Butler etc just because he averaged 50 and strikes at 130 against mostly "C grade attacks".

The above mentioned players can make a much bigger impact on the game, if they play as regular as Babar and in his batting position (opener). It may be tough to accept for you, but that's the hard truth. Babar is still a world class player with loads of potential but it would be silly to say that the likes of Rohit are not in his league when the reality is converse.

 

[Hyperion66]

- second thing is to see who is the best player in a given match and in that regard Babar is a top 10 batsman in every format without the shadow of a doubt.

Talking about impactful innings, India would love to have a Babar in the semi final.
On a pitch that was lot more Difficult Babar played the innings of the world cup.

How is he among top 10 test bats with a chillar average like 35? I just wanna know more about the source of such pearls of wisdom.

BTW if batted that way in the matches that really mattered Pak would have seen the lights of a wc knock out for a change

 

[Mobashir]

How is he among top 10 test bats with a chillar average like 35? I just wanna know more about the source of such pearls of wisdom.

It's easy. Make a test team and think about 10 batsmen you will pick over him, and you will not find them.

BTW if batted that way in the matches that really mattered Pak would have seen the lights of a wc knock out for a change

Unfortunately it looks like you are not following Pakistan cricket closely enough these days. Our team is poor, not even poor, it's really really poor. What we did at the 19 world cup was already a miracle with this team. For that, Babar and Amir, our only two world class players performed brilliantly. Beating England, New Zealand, South Africa, Bangladesh and Afghanistan was not a given for us.

 

[Mobashir]

No team would ever pick Babar over Warner, Kohli, Rohit, Maxwell, Butler etc just because he averaged 50 and strikes at 130 against mostly "C grade attacks".

The above mentioned players can make a much bigger impact on the game, if they play as regular as Babar and in his batting position (opener). It may be tough to accept for you, but that's the hard truth. Babar is still a world class player with loads of potential but it would be silly to say that the likes of Rohit are not in his league when the reality is converse.

Babar is the best between the fab 4 at scoring against the quality bowlers of the opposition, especially the fast bowlers.
You can refer to my thread about Babar's stats against the best bowler of each team in the world cup. And compared to the other great batsmen he had the best record.

 

[Ab Fan]

T20 is about impact, lol at scoring Vs quality attack when teams don't even care about T20s. Give me a Colin Munro over Babar. Warner and Rohit are miles ahead. They have much bigger impact in T20 cricket than the former.

It's the legacy which matters in T20 cricket and Babar doesn't have any legacy in T20 format. He is a very good limited overs player and falls in the same league of Joe Root and Kane Williamson. He doesn't have the skills sets to be remembered as a great great T20 player. The legacy of those two blokes is w.r.t test cricket and for Babar to be considered one of the bigger names in world cricket, he will have to establish himself as one of premier batsmen in test format.

 

[Mesozoic]

Babar is the best between the fab 4 at scoring against the quality bowlers of the opposition, especially the fast bowlers.
You can refer to my thread about Babar's stats against the best bowler of each team in the world cup. And compared to the other great batsmen he had the best record.

You seem to have no clue.

The guy (Babar) can bearly hit sixes. Has a substandard power game. He's good for a pretty little 60 off 48 balls which would go in vain more often than not against top oppositions.

 

[Mobashir]

T20 is about impact, lol at scoring Vs quality attack when teams don't even care about T20s. Give me a Colin Munro over Babar. Warner and Rohit are miles ahead. They have much bigger impact in T20 cricket than the former.

I might agree about Munro over Babar and I 100% agree that T20 is about impact. But Rohit is no Munro. The SR difference is about 20. The SR difference in the power play can be even bigger as Rohit is often run a ball of just over in the power play in T20's.

Babar is just 25 and you are talking about legacy. Many players over the world recognize him as one of the best in T20's. Even according to Cricinfo he was one of the top 4 picks in the Hundred draft. Wasn't picked because Pakistan will be playing a series at the same moment.

Can you explain what makes Kohli the best in T20 and Babar not even one of the best in the same format by playing the same kind of cricket (and so far Babar does it better).

 

[Mobashir]

You seem to have no clue.

The guy (Babar) can bearly hit sixes. Has a substandard power game. He's good for a pretty little 60 off 48 balls which would go in vain more often than not against top oppositions.

Because Root, Williamson, Kohli and Smith are six hitters? And I am the one who don't have a clue...

 

[zain7077]

I might agree about Munro over Babar and I 100% agree that T20 is about impact. But Rohit is no Munro. The SR difference is about 20. The SR difference in the power play can be even bigger as Rohit is often run a ball of just over in the power play in T20's.

Babar is just 25 and you are talking about legacy. Many players over the world recognize him as one of the best in T20's. Even according to Cricinfo he was one of the top 4 picks in the Hundred draft. Wasn't picked because Pakistan will be playing a series at the same moment.

Can you explain what makes Kohli the best in T20 and Babar not even one of the best in the same format by playing the same kind of cricket (and so far Babar does it better).

U were very generous to agree about Munro over Babar. It was chalk and cheese when both batted together in the PSL.

 

[Mobashir]

U were very generous to agree about Munro over Babar. It was chalk and cheese when both batted together in the PSL.

As I said, I might agree. T20 is a very different format in witch you need specific players.
I don't like to compare ultra attacking players like Munro, Buttler, Maxwell with the more traditional ones like Kohli, Root, Babar in T20 format.

 

[Ab Fan]

I might agree about Munro over Babar and I 100% agree that T20 is about impact. But Rohit is no Munro. The SR difference is about 20. The SR difference in the power play can be even bigger as Rohit is often run a ball of just over in the power play in T20's.

Babar is just 25 and you are talking about legacy. Many players over the world recognize him as one of the best in T20's. Even according to Cricinfo he was one of the top 4 picks in the Hundred draft. Wasn't picked because Pakistan will be playing a series at the same moment.

Can you explain what makes Kohli the best in T20 and Babar not even one of the best in the same format by playing the same kind of cricket (and so far Babar does it better).

T20 cricket is all about impact and not stats. The numbers hardly give any clarity on a cricketer's legacy as far as T20 is concerned. Rohit's impact goes way beyond his numbers. He has the ability to bat long, shift gears to the maximum level and turn the consequence of the game in moments once set. He has already hit 4 hundreds in T20s and has established himself as one of the most destructive batsmen in the world once he gets set.

Rohit is someone who actually will go down as a great great T20 player rather than Babar who although is good being a vital cog in a playing XI where others can hit around but can't turn the game the way Sharma can.

As far as Kohli is concerned, he has mastered the art of taking on the bowling by playing low risk cricket and his game is so phenomenal that he has already been a player of the series in WT20 twice if I am not wrong.

Someone like ABD averages around 26-27 in T20s but he has a legacy and is renowned as one of the legends in LO cricket. That's where stats become irrelevant and hence no one in their right mind would pick a Babar over ABD in T20 cricket.

For Babar to establish himself as one of world's premier batsmen, he will have to do justice to his talent in test cricket because he is not someone whom you would watch and call as a WOW LOs player, which you can say for the likes of de Villiers or Kohli or Rohit or Buttler.

 

[Hyperion66]

It's easy. Make a test team and think about 10 batsmen you will pick over him, and you will not find them

Yes sir understood.

Let's do a country wise breakdown of test bats I would pick over Babar. Making a test XI doesn't make sense as I will have to include bowlers so many deserving bats will be left out.

India: Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit (Yes, averages more than Babar and Babar is no world beater overseas), Pant (Gave real performances in Eng and Aus, not just few pretty cover drives).

Pak: Azhar, Shafiq (Albeit inconsistent but performed against better bowlers in tougher conditions)

SL : Kusal Perera ( A bit debatable perhaps but he is a match winner on his day)

BD : Shakib (Achieved much more than Babar with the bat)

Aus: Smith, Warner

SA: None

Eng : Root, Stokes (as a pure bat), Butler.

NZ : Kane, Taylor

 

[Ab Fan]

Because Root, Williamson, Kohli and Smith are six hitters? And I am the one who don't have a clue...

There you missing the point. Root, Williamson and Smith aren't natural six hitters but it's their test legacy which makes them wonderful cricketers. Same goes for Kohli but he is already one of the greatest LO player which adds up even more for him.

Babar need to have a test legacy to be considered a member of fab four because although he is a very good LO player like the other three but he is not a legendary odi player like Kohli who already has 11000 runs at average of 60 with 40 hundreds.

 

[Hyperion66]

Unfortunately it looks like you are not following Pakistan cricket closely enough these days. Our team is poor, not even poor, it's really really poor. What we did at the 19 world cup was already a miracle with this team. For that, Babar and Amir, our only two world class players performed brilliantly. Beating England, New Zealand, South Africa, Bangladesh and Afghanistan was not a given for us.

Just so if you know that I never really doubted his stature as a Top 5 odi bat.

 

[Mobashir]

T20 cricket is all about impact and not stats. The numbers hardly give any clarity on a cricketer's legacy as far as T20 is concerned. Rohit's impact goes way beyond his numbers. He has the ability to bat long, shift gears to the maximum level and turn the consequence of the game in moments once set. He has already hit 4 hundreds in T20s and has established himself as one of the most destructive batsmen in the world once he gets set.

Rohit is someone who actually will go down as a great great T20 player rather than Babar who although is good being a vital cog in a playing XI where others can hit around but can't turn the game the way Sharma can.

As far as Kohli is concerned, he has mastered the art of taking on the bowling by playing low risk cricket and his game is so phenomenal that he has already been a player of the series in WT20 twice if I am not wrong.

Someone like ABD averages around 26-27 in T20s but he has a legacy and is renowned as one of the legends in LO cricket. That's where stats become irrelevant and hence no one in their right mind would pick a Babar over ABD in T20 cricket.

For Babar to establish himself as one of world's premier batsmen, he will have to do justice to his talent in test cricket because he is not someone whom you would watch and call as a WOW LOs player, which you can say for the likes of de Villiers or Kohli or Rohit or Buttler.

Well written but you have completely lost the plot. I don't even know what to awnser to this.
I am not comparing Babar to the "wow" player as you can call them : Maxwell, ABDV, Buttler.

If Kohli takes on the bowling by playing low risk cricket, the same can be said about Babar.
Rohit Sharma is a bit different as you said he has different gears and can attack more, and I agree. But he also has the sleeping gear in witch he plays a record number of dot balls.

 

[zain7077]

Yes sir understood.

Let's do a country wise breakdown of test bats I would pick over Babar. Making a test XI doesn't make sense as I will have to include bowlers so many deserving bats will be left out.

India: Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit (Yes, averages more than Babar and Babar is no world beater overseas), Pant (Gave real performances in Eng and Aus, not just few pretty cover drives).

Pak: Azhar, Shafiq (Albeit inconsistent but performed against better bowlers in tougher conditions)

SL : Kusal Perera ( A bit debatable perhaps but he is a match winner on his day)

BD : Shakib (Achieved much more than Babar with the bat)

Aus: Smith, Warner

SA: None

Eng : Root, Stokes (as a pure bat), Butler.

NZ : Kane, Taylor

Babar’s innings of 90* in Nz. The tour of SA and his 68* are better than any innings Rohit flat track bully Sharma will play. He is a joke on a pitch doing a tiny bit with a slip cordon

 

[Mobashir]

Yes sir understood.

Let's do a country wise breakdown of test bats I would pick over Babar. Making a test XI doesn't make sense as I will have to include bowlers so many deserving bats will be left out.

India: Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit (Yes, averages more than Babar and Babar is no world beater overseas), Pant (Gave real performances in Eng and Aus, not just few pretty cover drives).

Pak: Azhar, Shafiq (Albeit inconsistent but performed against better bowlers in tougher conditions)

SL : Kusal Perera ( A bit debatable perhaps but he is a match winner on his day)

BD : Shakib (Achieved much more than Babar with the bat)

Aus: Smith, Warner

SA: None

Eng : Root, Stokes (as a pure bat), Butler.

NZ : Kane, Taylor

Really amazing. I mean your hands didn't shook when you were writing this? lol
So, you really think if tomorrow someone has to make a test team to play a match he will select Azhar Ali or Asad Shafik over Babar Azam in the XI? Never.

I mean the list is completely laughable but it also show how bad test cricket batting is these days.

The players that might be preferred over Babar in Test cricket are : Pujara, Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root, Taylor.
Didn't counted Warner because he is an opener and it's very bizarre for me to compare a Test opener with a midle order batsman. But you can count him. That will take the list to 7.

 

[Mobashir]

There you missing the point. Root, Williamson and Smith aren't natural six hitters but it's their test legacy which makes them wonderful cricketers. Same goes for Kohli but he is already one of the greatest LO player which adds up even more for him.

Babar need to have a test legacy to be considered a member of fab four because although he is a very good LO player like the other three but he is not a legendary odi player like Kohli who already has 11000 runs at average of 60 with 40 hundreds.

This particular discussion was about T20's.

 

[Ab Fan]

Well written but you have completely lost the plot. I don't even know what to awnser to this.
I am not comparing Babar to the "wow" player as you can call them : Maxwell, ABDV, Buttler.

If Kohli takes on the bowling by playing low risk cricket, the same can be said about Babar.
Rohit Sharma is a bit different as you said he has different gears and can attack more, and I agree. But he also has the sleeping gear in witch he plays a record number of dot balls.

The thing is there is a small matter of Kohli having 11000 ODI runs @avg 60 with 40 hundreds to his name. He has chased down scores over 300 several times and more than any player in the history of ODI cricket and has finished off the chases with ease. This is for ODI cricket while in T20 cricket, he has already been the player of tournament in two WT20s and has some iconic chases to his name in World Cup semi finals and other knockouts. Kohli at age of 25 was already having 6000 ODI runs and was considered the master of chases, neither feat which Babar has achieved.

Babar is yet to do any such stuff and neither do his stats are at a bigger sample, which means he hasn't done it for years for Pakistan. He is a starter for now and belongs to the league of Smith,Root and Williamson as LO players which means he is very good ODI cricketer but without achieving any great feat, he won't be considered a great LO player like Kohli and his test career is just at a start only.

 

[zain7077]

The thing is there is a small matter of Kohli having 11000 ODI runs @avg 60 with 40 hundreds to his name. He has chased down scores over 300 several times and more than any player in the history of ODI cricket and has finished off the chases with ease. This is for ODI cricket while in T20 cricket, he has already been the player of tournament in two WT20s and has some iconic chases to his name in World Cup semi finals and other knockouts. Kohli at age of 25 was already having 6000 ODI runs and was considered the master of chases, neither feat which Babar has achieved.

Babar is yet to do any such stuff and neither do his stats are at a bigger sample, which means he hasn't done it for years for Pakistan. He is a starter for now and belongs to the league of Smith,Root and Williamson as LO players which means he is very good ODI cricketer but without achieving any great feat, he won't be considered a great LO player like Kohli and his test career is just at a start only.

Lol putting Kohli and Great LO player in the same sentence sounds funny. You should have won some silverware to be a great and not bottled it every single time in each and every knockout you play

 

[big_gamer007]

All formats combined Babar isn't in the fab 4. He's young and a few good series can change that. However, for now he is behind the fab 4 and also behind Rohit, Warner and possibly Pujara (depending on how much weight age one gives to different formats).

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol putting Kohli and Great LO player in the same sentence sounds funny. You should have won some silverware to be a great and not bottled it every single time in each and every knockout you play

Well, he has proved it over a longer period with enough samples and won his team plenty of matches to make such a statement. Virat and ABD are without any doubt the two of the greatest LO players to have debuted in this millennium IMO.

 

[big_gamer007]

Lol putting Kohli and Great LO player in the same sentence sounds funny. You should have won some silverware to be a great and not bottled it every single time in each and every knockout you play

CT 2014, WC 2011. Kohli was part of team and won the silverware.

Now your typical response will be oh but Kohli didn't help his team win he didn't have standout 1 man performance like Smith did in 2015.

Let me ask you a question, Do you consider Messi, Ronaldo as an average footballer? If yes then one can understand your opinion about Kohli being not a Great LOI player.

 

[Mesozoic]

Babar’s innings of 90* in Nz. The tour of SA and his 68* are better than any innings Rohit flat track bully Sharma will play. He is a joke on a pitch doing a tiny bit with a slip cordon

Lol. You have no idea.

His 90 was against South Africa , not in NZ. And that too was in a losing cause where he ate up half of the innings and couldn't score at required rate due to his limited stroke play.

And that's why i say he plays impact less knocks which look good on the scorecard but doesn't help the team to get over the line.

And regarding Rohit, he has a match winning T20 hundred in England and multiple match winning knocks in SENA. Try again. Babar can only dream of having half the impact as Rohit does in LOI.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Lol putting Kohli and Great LO player in the same sentence sounds funny. You should have won some silverware to be a great and not bottled it every single time in each and every knockout you play

Did we not win ct 2013, where he was the highest scorer from both side in the finals.?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

CT 2014, WC 2011. Kohli was part of team and won the silverware.

Now your typical response will be oh but Kohli didn't help his team win he didn't have standout 1 man performance like Smith did in 2015.

Let me ask you a question, Do you consider Messi, Ronaldo as an average footballer? If yes then one can understand your opinion about Kohli being not a Great LOI player.

Kohli won us the 2013 ct final.

 

[Mesozoic]

The players that might be preferred over Babar in Test cricket are : Pujara, Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root, Taylor.
Didn't counted Warner because he is an opener and it's very bizarre for me to compare a Test opener with a midle order batsman. But you can count him. That will take the list to 7.

Add Karunaratne, Dean Elgar and Tom Latham to that list.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

It's easy. Make a test team and think about 10 batsmen you will pick over him, and you will not find them.



Unfortunately it looks like you are not following Pakistan cricket closely enough these days. Our team is poor, not even poor, it's really really poor. What we did at the 19 world cup was already a miracle with this team. For that, Babar and Amir, our only two world class players performed brilliantly. Beating England, New Zealand, South Africa, Bangladesh and Afghanistan was not a given for us.

Babar is a bright prospect in test cricket and he"ll eventually become a good test player too.
But as of now there are more than 10 batsman who are better than him.

Kohli, pujara, rahane, smith, warner, stokes, faf, de kock, kane, root, taylor, karunaratne, matthews, shakib.

 

[Hyperion66]

Really amazing. I mean your hands didn't shook when you were writing this? lol
So, you really think if tomorrow someone has to make a test team to play a match he will select Azhar Ali or Asad Shafik over Babar Azam in the XI? Never.

I mean the list is completely laughable but it also show how bad test cricket batting is these days.

The players that might be preferred over Babar in Test cricket are : Pujara, Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root, Taylor.
Didn't counted Warner because he is an opener and it's very bizarre for me to compare a Test opener with a midle order batsman. But you can count him. That will take the list to 7.

This is delusion and cluelessness of the highest order, Babar is a nobody in tests, an absolute and proper nobody, one has to be of spcial kind to consider him a top 10 test bat who averages a mighty 35 and doesn't have a single century overseas. I am truly impressed with your reasoning.

 

[zain7077]

Lol. You have no idea.

His 90 was against South Africa , not in NZ. And that too was in a losing cause where he ate up half of the innings and couldn't score at required rate due to his limited stroke play.

And that's why i say he plays impact less knocks which look good on the scorecard but doesn't help the team to get over the line.

And regarding Rohit, he has a match winning T20 hundred in England and multiple match winning knocks in SENA. Try again. Babar can only dream of having half the impact as Rohit does in LOI.

Get your facts right. The 90* was a fantastic test match innings against NZ in NZ on a green top. Something Rohit can only dream of doing

 

[Hawkeye]

Fab 4 was based only on tests otherwise the likes of Rohit would be there as well.

I was basing it on ODIs. I already acknowledged he's not there in Tests yet.

Yeah, Smith and Kane always go missing in WCs. Nowhere near Babar

Where did I say anything about those two?

He is better than Smith in Odi
Better than Kane in t20is
Has performed better than Root in last 2 years and better than Kohli in World Cup

That makes him better than the rest

Not really. I didn't say any of that. What triggered you so much?

Kohli scored 443
Babar scored 474
And somehow kohli is failure and babar was a sucess at the world cup.

He hasn't performed in any KO match so hang on before giving him the clutch tag.

No, Kohli wasn't really a failure either. The impact was just higher by Babar and he scored a ton in a virtual KO for us as well, against NZ.

 

[Mesozoic]

Get your facts right. The 90* was a fantastic test match innings against NZ in NZ on a green top. Something Rohit can only dream of doing

I thought this whole discussion was about t20s.

Anyways, yes. I agree that Babar is a better batsman on green tops than Rohit. No doubt in that. But Rohit is better on all other kind of wickets. He has it in him to play long long innings which Babar clearly doesn't have as evident by his poor conversion rate.

So that makes Rohit a better option to have even in Tests.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

a century or 2 will make giants steps in direction of taking over from root in the fab4 ... keep in mind, for LOI, root has the luxury of knowing that he is part of, probably, the best team in ODI history with serious batting resources to follow ... Babar, easily, has the worst ODI in pak history, apart from the 2015 WC squad, so pressure on him is tremendous .

If Babar can score 1-2 centuries on this difficult tour, he will def b inline to be no4 on fab4

 

[NoBallZombie]

a century or 2 will make giants steps in direction of taking over from root in the fab4 ... keep in mind, for LOI, root has the luxury of knowing that he is part of, probably, the best team in ODI history with serious batting resources to follow ... Babar, easily, has the worst ODI in pak history, apart from the 2015 WC squad, so pressure on him is tremendous .

If Babar can score 1-2 centuries on this difficult tour, he will def b inline to be no4 on fab4

Babar's not doing that from number 5. He should be our number 3 batsman .

 

[zain7077]

Babar's not doing that from number 5. He should be our number 3 batsman .

Especially with the tail we have this time

 

[Mobashir]

Babar's not doing that from number 5. He should be our number 3 batsman .

The best position to bat in test is number 4. Most of the times you come in with the new ball already gone. Normally the best player of the team should bat at 3. But with the limited capabilities of our batting line up we may do better with a blocker like Azhar Ali at 3 and then Babar at 4.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Hussey "If Babar Azam can start hitting some big hundreds in Tests, he can be in that same conversation when we talk about the best players in the world, like Virat Kohli, Steve Smith, Kane Williamson and Joe Root. He's that good, he's a brilliant player" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1193869057994481664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mercurial]

Not yet, because the Fab 4 have a good Test record, while Babar is ordinary in the Test format. He has to prove himself in Test cricket first.

 

[Danyaalr01]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Hussey "If Babar Azam can start hitting some big hundreds in Tests, he can be in that same conversation when we talk about the best players in the world, like Virat Kohli, Steve Smith, Kane Williamson and Joe Root. He's that good, he's a brilliant player" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1193869057994481664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Michael Hussey also recognised that Root isn't really in the fab 4 anymore. He said "The same conversation that Kohli, Smith and Williamson are talked about, and sometimes Root."

Brilliant knock by Babar though, showed complete dominance against a decent bowling attack. Batted at a strike rate of almost 80 and made basically zero mistakes.

Let's hope Babar has a good test series in Australia and also against Sri Lanka next month. Bangladesh should also be a good chance to do well. Another challenge will be England next year and also New Zealand in NZ.

 

[Mueez]

One series - that’s all what Babar needs.

 

[Danyaalr01]

One series - that’s all what Babar needs.

And this is that series.

 

[Hitman]

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] you better start by making up your mind about what you think.
First you think that Babar not top 5 in any format is pretty accurate and then you state Babar is top 5 in 2 out of 3 formats.

I was agreeing with him regarding his comments on Babar needing to do a lot more in Tests. Babar in top 5 in ODIs and T20s in my opinion.

 

[Rana]

No Fab 5, it’s Fab 4.

Joe Root has been overtaken by Babar.

Smith
Kohli
Williamson
Babar

Root has approximately 2 years left in cricket

 

[Danyaalr01]

No Fab 5, it’s Fab 4.

Joe Root has been overtaken by Babar.

Smith
Kohli
Williamson
Babar

Root has approximately 2 years left in cricket

Not yet. Right now it is more of a top 3 with Kohli, Smith and Williamson. Root has fallen out of the fab 4.

Babar has a very crucial 12-14 months in which he has many important test series. If he succeeds then we can say he is part of the fab 4. To do that he will have to play a couple of memorable knocks and lift his average above 45.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Babar's not doing that from number 5. He should be our number 3 batsman .

should bat at 4 and not higher ... i think Harris Sohail is a better no3 than babar

 

[jnaveen1980]

He is on his way to becoming a great all round batsman. Zaheer Abbas of modern era.

 

[Mueez]

And this is that series.

True.

My prediction: he is gonna lead us to our first Test series win in Australia.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root is really underrated on PP. He has 7000 test runs at 28 only. There is no doubt in my mind that he is still well ahead of anyone not named Virat Kohli, Steven Smith and Kane Williamson as a batsmen among active players.

Babar is 25 and with 1 test hundred, he is just a starter. Warner, Pujara and Qdk are also well behind Root.

 

[Hyperion66]

PP logic: Babar is a part of Fab 4, why? Cuz he performed in a practice match

Lmao at people discrediting Root, he is still 10 times the player Babar is in test. It would be the lowest point in cricket if a guy averaging 35 with one century is considered a part of an elite club.

 

[Saj]

Babar has a lot of work to do yet in Test cricket, but a good series in Australia could go a long way to closing the gap on the top 4 batsmen.

 

[Hyperion66]

Root is really underrated on PP. He has 7000 test runs at 28 only. There is no doubt in my mind that he is still well ahead of anyone not named Virat Kohli, Steven Smith and Kane Williamson as a batsmen among active players.

Babar is 25 and with 1 test hundred, he is just a starter. Warner, Pujara and Qdk are also well behind Root.

Averaging a world ending, universe shattering 35. If there is any club called okish 10 or decent 15 he would probably be a part of that.

 

[Ab Fan]

PP logic: Babar is a part of Fab 4, why? Cuz he performed in a practice match

Lmao at people discrediting Root, he is still 10 times the player Babar is in test. It would be the lowest point in cricket if a guy averaging 35 with one century is considered a part of an elite club.

A conversation for a place alongside Fab four becomes relevant only when a specialist batsmen hits atleast 10 test hundreds.

Warner has 20 hundreds, a wicket-keeper Quinton de kock comes to bat at 7 has 5 hundreds at 26 age. I think among all formats player, these two are more closer contenders than anyone else.

 

[Hyperion66]

A conversation for a place alongside Fab four becomes relevant only when a specialist batsmen hits atleast 10 test hundreds.

Warner has 20 hundreds, a wicket-keeper Quinton de kock comes to bat at 7 has 5 hundreds at 26 age. I think among all formats player, these two are more closer contenders than anyone else.

Remember the criterias that were set against Kohli here in PP? From performing on a Groundhog day to facing Anderson in a rain soaked Sherwood forest at dawn?

 

[The_Odd_One]

He's not but he can get there in 2-3 years if he can average 50+ in tests and play some more match-winning knocks in limited overs cricket.

 

[The Viper]

It is premature to say that Babar is already in the Fab Four. He needs iconic test knocks, which he doesn’t have at the moment. Let’s not forget that Joe Root has played some impactful knocks like the 180 in SA.

 

[The_Odd_One]

It is premature to say that Babar is already in the Fab Four. He needs iconic test knocks, which he doesn’t have at the moment. Let’s not forget that Joe Root has played some impactful knocks like the 180 in SA.

It is laughable to compare Root with Babar. The former has over 7K test runs and several match-winning innings.