China bans fasting in Ramadan

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But Pakistanis protest and speak out against oppression in Kashmir/Bosnia/Chechnya/Palestine/Myanmar/Iraq/France/Gujurat so why is China the only place where it does not matter ?

Because Pakistan has supposedly good ties with China although I'm not aware to what extent these are. I would guess a lot of Indian posters have a far more detailed understanding than I do. I suppose if Pakistan was a more fundamentalist state then the Islamic brotherhood would be above and beyond all other ties and Pakistan would cut all ties with China and establish a Taliban govt. I'm sure then Wasim bhai, KB-24 and James would approve.

 

[Cracket]

They should state the reasons. If they are concerned about the health of their citizens, they should say so. But they are most likely doing it out of intolerance.

 

[style_guru]

It's the might of the Chinese. Everyone knows that any internal resistance to the Govt. there will be dealt with an iron fist, & any external won't be given two hoots either.

China is slowly getting into a situation where it'll have no friends left. I know they don't care but if the world decides to crush the Dragon's tail, it'll be crushed indeed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's the might of the Chinese. Everyone knows that any internal resistance to the Govt. there will be dealt with an iron fist, & any external won't be given two hoots either.

China is slowly getting into a situation where it'll have no friends left. I know they don't care but if the world decides to crush the Dragon's tail, it'll be crushed indeed.

Not in the immediate future it won't. Far more likely that other countries will carry on trading with them because it's just too lucrative.

 

[Varun]

China is slowly getting into a situation where it'll have no friends left. I know they don't care but if the world decides to crush the Dragon's tail, it'll be crushed indeed.

Well, if the world was indeed a threat to them, they wouldn't be defying one and all inside and outside their borders. To carry your point forward, they've rendered, or are rendering their dragon tail un-crushable.

If anything, this analogy is very similar to the stuff we keep seeing on the cricket forum ref. the BCCI, and the supposed 'cricket world will turn against them in the times to come'. Not gonna happen.

 

[style_guru]

Not in the immediate future it won't. Far more likely that other countries will carry on trading with them because it's just too lucrative.

There's only so much anyone can take. China's growing lust for power & it's authoritarian ways won't go well with most countries. Deep within, most countries already can't stand the Dragon but keep mum as it's too powerful to be made upset.

Common enemies will surely come up together in a few years. But that's about future & cannot be guaranteed for sure.

 

[style_guru]

Well, if the world was indeed a threat to them, they wouldn't be defying one and all inside and outside their borders. To carry your point forward, they've rendered, or are rendering their dragon tail un-crushable.

If anything, this analogy is very similar to the stuff we keep seeing on the cricket forum ref. the BCCI, and the supposed 'cricket world will turn against them in the times to come'. Not gonna happen.

Equating the dynamics of the global diplomacy with that of an sporting body? Not very bright I say.

 

[Varun]

Equating the dynamics of the global diplomacy with that of an sporting body? Not very bright I say.

Do elaborate, otherwise the comparison in this context between China and the BCCI and other such bodies in their respective genres being trodden over by their enemies in the coming years sounds implausible to me, which is part of the reason they carry on with their arrogant selves - there's little to no blowback to their actions.

 

[style_guru]

Do elaborate, otherwise the comparison in this context between China and the BCCI and other such bodies in their respective genres being trodden over by their enemies in the coming years sounds implausible to me, which is part of the reason they carry on with their arrogant selves - there's little to no blowback to their actions.

Open a new thread on it & you shall find what you seek. Don't want this thread to go down the flush.

 

[Wasim1]

Because Pakistan has supposedly good ties with China although I'm not aware to what extent these are. I would guess a lot of Indian posters have a far more detailed understanding than I do. I suppose if Pakistan was a more fundamentalist state then the Islamic brotherhood would be above and beyond all other ties and Pakistan would cut all ties with China and establish a Taliban govt. I'm sure then Wasim bhai, KB-24 and James would approve.

All this shows is the hypocrisy of Pakistan. If this was India or any other Western nation Karachis streets would be packed with people burning effigies and flags.

The all weather friend has essentially banned the very reason for Pakistan its religion. Everyone in Pakistan rages over any persecution of Muslims EXCEPT China. I can understand why the government says nothing buy where are the Hafiz Saeeds and Zaid Hamids on this issue. Imagine that this happened in India how theyd all react.

 

[amax]

All this shows is the hypocrisy of Pakistan. If this was India or any other Western nation Karachis streets would be packed with people burning effigies and flags.

The all weather friend has essentially banned the very reason for Pakistan its religion. Everyone in Pakistan rages over any persecution of Muslims EXCEPT China. I can understand why the government says nothing buy where are the Hafiz Saeeds and Zaid Hamids on this issue. Imagine that this happened in India how theyd all react.

Looks like govts around the world are being nice to china just see how India is freely allowing regular recreational trips of Chinese troops deep into its territory(which is considered as big offence otherwise), all this to me sounds like part of one big conspiracy.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All this shows is the hypocrisy of Pakistan. If this was India or any other Western nation Karachis streets would be packed with people burning effigies and flags.

The all weather friend has essentially banned the very reason for Pakistan its religion. Everyone in Pakistan rages over any persecution of Muslims EXCEPT China. I can understand why the government says nothing buy where are the Hafiz Saeeds and Zaid Hamids on this issue. Imagine that this happened in India how theyd all react.

When was the last time there were flags or effigy burnings against India in Pakistan? As for religion being the only reason for Pakistan, a point which Indians keep blabbing, the reason wasn't to be a fundamentalist Islamic regime, it was to provide a safe place for Muslims where they wouldn't get hacked to death by the veg eating majority. You know, as is happening in Burma.

 

[ArmanKhan]

You're very kind - I wish!

I used Sunni as an example only because Sunni is one of the majority ways of thinking in Islam. Apologies if that part didn't read well. There's nothing sinister at work here - hopefully you can trust me on that.

What were your thoughts on the rest of the post? I'd have hoped there was something more interesting in there to respond to.

Rest of your post if filled with bigotry you make it sound like every Muslim hates the west and see China as a shinning light of this world. Didn't think it was worth responding because it probably wasn't your intention.

 

[KarachiKing]

There is little to no protest against this supposed state policy either, then.

Because protests dont achieve anything and get clamped down easily as China will not care about public opinion

 

[Varun]

Because protests dont achieve anything and get clamped down easily as China will not care about public opinion

They won't care about public opinion within their shores, sure. But I was referring to the slower, simmering public opinion from folks who hail from outside and otherwise have little to do with China.

 

[Indiafan]

When was the last time there were flags or effigy burnings against India in Pakistan? As for religion being the only reason for Pakistan, a point which Indians keep blabbing, the reason wasn't to be a fundamentalist Islamic regime, it was to provide a safe place for Muslims where they wouldn't get hacked to death by the veg eating majority. You know, as is happening in Burma.

Burning flags and effegies and sending 10 trained terrorists to kill innocents, big difference. What has Burma to do with anything, you are the master of ad-homenisum.

 

[KarachiKing]

All this shows is the hypocrisy of Pakistan. If this was India or any other Western nation Karachis streets would be packed with people burning effigies and flags.

The all weather friend has essentially banned the very reason for Pakistan its religion. Everyone in Pakistan rages over any persecution of Muslims EXCEPT China. I can understand why the government says nothing buy where are the Hafiz Saeeds and Zaid Hamids on this issue. Imagine that this happened in India how theyd all react.

Again you show that you the comprehension skills of a 5 year old.

The difference here is that China is not specifically targetting Muslims. It is intolerant of any expression of religion be it Islam, Christianity or Bhuddhism. Si very different case. Muslims as a group would come up in arms if they were being specifically being discriminated against.

Also, as said before, China is an authoritarian, Communist government who doesnt care about the opinion of people in or outside China so protesting against it will not alter its behavior which is what would be the reaction in the case of a democratic government

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Hindu Trolls/Anti Pakistan thread.

Its getting quite predictable.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

When was the last time there were flags or effigy burnings against India in Pakistan? As for religion being the only reason for Pakistan, a point which Indians keep blabbing, the reason wasn't to be a fundamentalist Islamic regime, it was to provide a safe place for Muslims where they wouldn't get hacked to death by the veg eating majority. You know, as is happening in Burma.

Indian flag regularly gets burnt in Srinagr.

Interestingly the only notable incident of flag burning to have occurred recently was when BJP activists burnt a Pakistan flag last year.

BJP that now form the government lol.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Wow that's incredible.

Re protesting, I remember reading about Pakistanis (and Indians) taking to the streets to protest against the French veil ban - and the Swiss minaret ban. Any excuse to shout anti-western slogans really. Somehow I doubt they'll be doing the same over this.

Home inspections

On Monday, Chinese authorities reportedly encouraged Uighurs to eat free meals on Monday, and inspected homes to check if the fast was being observed, Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, told AFP citing local sources.

“China taking these kind of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict,” he said.

“We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramadan.”

Source: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...s-Ramadan-fast-in-mainly-Muslim-Xinjiang.html

 

[James]

Rest of your post if filled with bigotry you make it sound like every Muslim hates the west and see China as a shinning light of this world. Didn't think it was worth responding because it probably wasn't your intention.

I'm interested as to why there is so much anti-western sentiment, when western countries are probably the best places for us all to live. This particular hypocrisy has been highlighted by numerous posters in this thread.

I don't think I'm a bigot. I would like you to either prove that nasty and flippant accusation, or drop it immediately. We're here to discuss, not to slog.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think the anti western sentiments are partly because of the history of west imperialism, of which the major victim was the muslim world, and partly because the western civilization has left the muslim world far behind in progress, after being in dark ages during the muslim golden age.

 

[RexRex]

The difference here is that China is not specifically targetting Muslims. It is intolerant of any expression of religion be it Islam, Christianity or Bhuddhism. Si very different case.

Do you extend this argument to include india and israel as well?

China : We do what we do because we want to be an atheist communist state and are not targetting Muslims in particular.
Israel : We do what we do because we want to be a jewish homeland state and are not targetting Muslims in particular.
India : We do what we do because we want to be a secular state based on 1947 accession and are not targetting Muslims in particular.

Acceptable ??

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It does make one wonder why Pakistan has such a close relationship with China despite the massive difference in ideology. The only seemingly logical suggestion is that on a strategic level both countries have operated on a mutual benefit mode which has kept the relationship strong down the years similar to India's long standing ties with Russia. In a nutshell, Pakistan and China seem to have been able to put differences over religion to one side which is an admirable step IMO.

What is more surprising is that India has not made more of an effort to replace China as Pakistan's long standing strategic ally, but then threads like this provide a good indicator of the mindset of a lot of Indians. Perhaps they have found it far more difficult to put religious differences aside and the general approval of a Hindu nationalist govt only serves to underline that.

 

[RexRex]

^Not sure what you mean by the notion of the indian mindset.The inconstistency in ideological stand is a legitimate point no ?

.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

^Not sure what you mean by the notion of the indian mindset.The inconstistency in ideological stand is a legitimate point no ?

.

It depends what you mean by ideological stand. What do people understand Pakistan's ideological stand to be?

 

[RexRex]

It depends what you mean by ideological stand. What do people understand Pakistan's ideological stand to be?

It's not a reference to Pakistan state per se but those who tend to always talk about Palestine and Kashmir and don't see an issue with China.Karachiking's post for example.I wouldn't lump you in that category , don't know what your opinion is.

 

[Wasim1]

It does make one wonder why Pakistan has such a close relationship with China despite the massive difference in ideology. The only seemingly logical suggestion is that on a strategic level both countries have operated on a mutual benefit mode which has kept the relationship strong down the years similar to India's long standing ties with Russia. In a nutshell, Pakistan and China seem to have been able to put differences over religion to one side which is an admirable step IMO.

What is more surprising is that India has not made more of an effort to replace China as Pakistan's long standing strategic ally, but then threads like this provide a good indicator of the mindset of a lot of Indians. Perhaps they have found it far more difficult to put religious differences aside and the general approval of a Hindu nationalist govt only serves to underline that.

Admirable step? More like Pakistan is the most hypocritical country on Earth. Even eternal bffs Israel and America are sometimes at a disagreement, however, the fact that China is making lives unbearable for the Muslims in China shows the hypocrisy of Pakistan as Islam is their #1 issue.

Just look at yourself bringing up non sequitors like Burma in this thread trying to detract. You'd rather change the subject than call a space for what it is and comment on the fact that the Pakistani government and I'm sad to say it's people turn a complete blind eye to anything China does to Muslims.

As I noted I can understand the government being mum as it is in an indentured position with China but why no comments from the people?

Where is hafeez Saeed on this or Ziad Hamad or the diaspora like anjem Choudhary? Arnt they the self proclaimed great defenders of Islam or does Islam only extend to Palestine and Kashmir for them? How come they are also so gutless on China's behaviour?

I'm pretty sure if modi banned ramadan we'd hear plenty from them as well as you.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's not a reference to Pakistan state per se but those who tend to always talk about Palestine and Kashmir and don't see an issue with China.Karachiking's post for example.I wouldn't lump you in that category , don't know what your opinion is.

My opinion has already been stated, obviously Pakistan and China have been able to establish a good relationship beyond their religious differences and that's reflected down to the public, hence you don't get many Pakistanis critical of China and you don't get Chinese people signing up to PakPassion to troll on religious matters.

P.S.

this answer covers Wasim bhai's diatribe as well.

 

[Saeed]

you don't get Chinese people signing up to PakPassion to troll on religious matters.

That was a good one.

 

[imback]

I'm pretty sure if modi banned ramadan we'd hear plenty from them as well as you.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hope he bans Navaratri fasting, otherwise it will be a hypocrisy

 

[ArmanKhan]

I'm interested as to why there is so much anti-western sentiment, when western countries are probably the best places for us all to live. This particular hypocrisy has been highlighted by numerous posters in this thread.

I don't think I'm a bigot. I would like you to either prove that nasty and flippant accusation, or drop it immediately. We're here to discuss, not to slog.

Again you are wrong about anti "western" sentiment there is definitely anti US sentiment amongst some factions but that doesn't mean it equates to the entire Western World.

As to why that is the answer is pretty straight forward. The moment China decides to invade a Muslim country, openly or covertly support guerilla groups and once they cause enough death and destruction label them as terrorists, install and support ruthless puppet governments, support democracy but if the victorious candidate is not to their liking covertly cause an uprising and force the winner to resign or put him in jail etc etc etc than you will get a lot of anti China sentiment before that their country their rule.

p.s I didn't call you a bigot.

 

[Wasim1]

My opinion has already been stated, obviously Pakistan and China have been able to establish a good relationship beyond their religious differences and that's reflected down to the public, hence you don't get many Pakistanis critical of China and you don't get Chinese people signing up to PakPassion to troll on religious matters.

P.S.

this answer covers Wasim bhai's diatribe as well.

No it actually totally deflects from the points ive made understandably so because Im sure you are fully aware how hypocritical Pakistan is. As I said I agree with you the Pakistani government is in a state of servitude to China and cant really do much. However where is the reaction of the people? America and Pakistan are suppose to be allies as per the Pakistani government and that certainly is not being cascaded down to the general people.

Imagine if America Pakistans other ally banned Ramadan fasting. There would be full street protests in Pakistan.

Does Hafeez Saeed also have very good relationships with China hence his mum stance? How about captain Pakistan himself Ziad Hamad why is he mum? Is he some secret envoy for the Pakistani government.

People from the Islamic republic of Pakistan appear to only be concerned about Arab Muslims and whats going on in Kashmir. Kill torture discriminate all you want against Muslims in China and you get a clean chit.

 

[Jang]

Muslim hyprocisy on this matter is shameful. If China does it it's ok, yet when some other country even mentions it there are protests all over

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No it actually totally deflects from the points ive made understandably so because Im sure you are fully aware how hypocritical Pakistan is. As I said I agree with you the Pakistani government is in a state of servitude to China and cant really do much. However where is the reaction of the people? America and Pakistan are suppose to be allies as per the Pakistani government and that certainly is not being cascaded down to the general people.

Imagine if America Pakistans other ally banned Ramadan fasting. There would be full street protests in Pakistan.

Does Hafeez Saeed also have very good relationships with China hence his mum stance? How about captain Pakistan himself Ziad Hamad why is he mum? Is he some secret envoy for the Pakistani government.

People from the Islamic republic of Pakistan appear to only be concerned about Arab Muslims and whats going on in Kashmir. Kill torture discriminate all you want against Muslims in China and you get a clean chit.

It's perplexing I agree. Difficult to understand how the hypocritical Pakistan public ignore China's ban on Ramadan, they must have been fooled by the general lack of Chinese public hostility towards Pakistan. If it was me I'd far prefer to reciprocate to warmth of Indian friends like you Wasim bhai.

 

[KarachiKing]

Do you extend this argument to include india and israel as well?

China : We do what we do because we want to be an atheist communist state and are not targetting Muslims in particular.
Israel : We do what we do because we want to be a jewish homeland state and are not targetting Muslims in particular.
India : We do what we do because we want to be a secular state based on 1947 accession and are not targetting Muslims in particular.

Acceptable ??

Well Im not one to decide whats acceptable or not..

But lets take the case of India. You do know the difference between secular and atheist states right? Secular states allow the freedom to practise religion. There is just no state religion. So if India said that it is a Hindu state or an atheist state, then your point would hold

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Very simple logic:

Saudi Arabia is known to have their own version of Islamic Sharia (which many in the Muslim world don't subscribe to).

But when it comes out with a crazy rule, people (especially Muslims) bash it even though they know nothing is going to come out of them expressing a widespread outrage.

The simple question some posters are asking is:

Why is there no outrage among the masses about this China's Ramadan ban? Atleast on the Internet.

Personally I have no opinion or strong views about it but the question raised by some posters here are perfectly fair.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Also let's take this "they are not held to a higher standard" argument and analyze it.

Terrorists are not held in a high regard too by any sane fellow. But when any bad news about their activity them comes up, everyone condemns that incident and expresses atleast some level of outrage. Sure, events like car bombs have become more common these days which lessens the effect of one's outrage but that does not in any way indicate the lack of it.

Now here's the important part

If someone asks a question "why is there no general outrage for this car bomb incident", all replies would be along the lines of "there is, its just that its become too common these days which is why it doesn't become the main topic of discussion".

Not one post would be saying "we expect this stuff from the terrorists" (even though that's a true statement).

Sure China suppresses ALL religions equally but the real question being asked by some posters here is:

Isn't this lack of outrage just because China has been an ally for you? When does factors like "results achieved due to an outrage", "standards to which a country is held" play a role in defining the how much outrage a certain action generates. Outrage is a natural response.

Another Eg - Everyone knows BCCI is a crazy bully. Now just because no other cricketing country can do anything about BCCI's craziness does NOT mean people don't get outraged by its acts.

 

[RexRex]

Well Im not one to decide whats acceptable or not..

But lets take the case of India. You do know the difference between secular and atheist states right? Secular states allow the freedom to practise religion. There is just no state religion. So if India said that it is a Hindu state or an atheist state, then your point would hold

Eh ? I think you misunderstood ..

You said China doesn't single out the muslim faith in particular and therefore there is no vocal protest from Pakistanis or the arab world.
I responded by saying there is no faith based discrimination in Kashmir or Palestine either these are territorial disputes.All 3 are serving the larger interest of the state.

 

[KarachiKing]

Also let's take this "they are not held to a higher standard" argument and analyze it.

Terrorists are not held in a high regard too by any sane fellow. But when any bad news about their activity them comes up, everyone condemns that incident and expresses atleast some level of outrage. Sure, events like car bombs have become more common these days which lessens the effect of one's outrage but that does not in any way indicate the lack of it.

Now here's the important part

If someone asks a question "why is there no general outrage for this car bomb incident", all replies would be along the lines of "there is, its just that its become too common these days which is why it doesn't become the main topic of discussion".

Not one post would be saying "we expect this stuff from the terrorists" (even though that's a true statement).

Sure China suppresses ALL religions equally but the real question being asked by some posters here is:

Isn't this lack of outrage just because China has been an ally for you? When does factors like "results achieved due to an outrage", "standards to which a country is held" play a role in defining the how much outrage a certain action generates. Outrage is a natural response.

Another Eg - Everyone knows BCCI is a crazy bully. Now just because no other cricketing country can do anything about BCCI's craziness does NOT mean people don't get outraged by its acts.

Isnt the bolded part the same here. This is just a common behavior on the part of the chinese authroities so nothing new

 

[KarachiKing]

Eh ? I think you misunderstood ..

You said China doesn't single out the muslim faith in particular and therefore there is no vocal protest from Pakistanis or the arab world.
I responded by saying there is no faith based discrimination in Kashmir or Palestine either these are territorial disputes.All 3 are serving the larger interest of the state.

Couple of things:
1) In Kashmir or Palestine, whether it is specific or not, the fact is that in majority cases ONLY Muslims are being targeted. So it is persecution of one group. In China, the Buddhsits and Christians are facing the same problems

2) India and Israel claim to be open, fredom-based democracies so it is hypocritical if they go against thus. China never claims to be such which is why there will be outrage over its hypocrtical behavior.

I am not trying to condone any behavior by the Chinese. I am just listing the reason why i think there is lack of outrage.. Finally, I also think that Muslims of Pakistan will identify themselves more with Indian Muslims (once were part of the same country) or Arabs (have historical links as they first brought Islam here). Unlike Chinese Uighyurs who most Pakistanis do not have the slightest idea about, let along met them

 

[CricketCartoons]

Things are not as simple as that. Outrage or no outrage depends on a lot of things. Regarding India, it is the historical baggage, validation of two nation theory, and Kashmir etc. Israel is not only territorial but religious, with the jews controlling some of the holy sites. These two tick a lot of boxes. With China there is no such baggage, so there is less motivation to protest.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Isnt the bolded part the same here. This is just a common behavior on the part of the chinese authroities so nothing new

No its not the same or else the following topics would NEVER have been raised.

1. Their country subjugates all religion equally
2. They are not held by higher standards
3. Its always been this way

These topics NEVER get raised when discussing:

1. Terrorism
2. Saudi Arabia rules
3. BCCI bashing

This is just a common behavior on the part of the chinese authroities so nothing new

When did anyone expect proper behavior from Terrorists or Saudi Arabia?

Yet people show their outrage. Cos its a personal emotion that comes out irrespective of external factors.

Not saying the intensity would be the same for all cases.

Considering the amount of energy some posters use to link every Indian issue with Modi (whom I am not a fan of -I think he is guilty of 2002 riots), the outrage level is shockingly low. Plus I think there was "a year old" post made by a Muslim fella who said the same thing about the reaction towards Chinese.

I get your premise and it holds true to a certain level. But not much. The point raised by some here is that there is lack of outrage cos Chinese are allies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Things are not as simple as that. Outrage or no outrage depends on a lot of things. Regarding India, it is the historical baggage, validation of two nation theory, and Kashmir etc. Israel is not only territorial but religious, with the jews controlling some of the holy sites. These two tick a lot of boxes. With China there is no such baggage, so there is less motivation to protest.

Pretty much nail on the head, plus you can add in the long term strategic alliance which has held for longer than most others. Pakistan also had a very strong relationship with USA up until the 1970's where they showed the limits of their support and Pakistan realised belatedly that allegiances shift according to the needs of the time.

Most Pakistanis probably aren't even aware that there has been a ban on Ramadhan in China. Even if there were protests, I doubt they would get any coverage, more than likely they would be suppressed.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Things are not as simple as that. Outrage or no outrage depends on a lot of things. Regarding India, it is the historical baggage, validation of two nation theory, and Kashmir etc. Israel is not only territorial but religious, with the jews controlling some of the holy sites. These two tick a lot of boxes. With China there is no such baggage, so there is less motivation to protest.

And that's what some posters are saying what's happening.

They are saying outrage in such cases is not 100% issue based and a certain bias is there (no past baggage + Chinese being allies).

If this happened in India, outrage would have been more cos its INDIA and not necessarily because they are held to a higher standard (referring to the reaction of the general masses and not sensible educated people).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Anyways, I don't have any strong views about this.

Just wanted to make a post to elaborate what one side was trying to say.

To be honest, its a good thing that we have 1 less controversy.

 

[Wasim1]

For those of you guys saying its Chinas right their country what if India decided to ban all minarets and ban all calls to prayer cause they disturb the 80% non Muslim population.

 

[Indiafan]

Again! Those things are proested when they happen in Inida or any western country because that is not how they function. That is against their principles and freedom values (esp west) to discriminate on the basis of religion which is why there is an uproar if there is some oppression there.

With China, it is pretty much a state policy to suppress religion so there is nothing out of the ordinary. Im not saying they are right in any ones eyes. My point is that you expect it from their government. Infact it would be shocking if the opposite happened.

So suddenly from being great oppressors, India somehow became a beacon of justice? I can see you are calling China all sorts of names now, but in all other context here the same China is highly praised and the same India is put down. Then the fact about China being against human rights are never brought up. Also I thought religion was to help in being moral and doing the right thing, not about ignoring the oppressors or justifying their stance. On the other thread someone said religion teaches morality. But what you say is practical and not moral

Also a thing to be noted is. The countries against which there is an uproar are democracies who claim to be liberal and open. A democracy functions on the support of the people and is judged by the people. So if a large group of people protests against a democratic government, then the said govt will have to tak that on board and do sth about it otherwise it will get voted out. Which is why there is a point to protesting against the behavior of a democracy as there is some chance of getting your way. China's govt is not answerable for its actions to anyone so ny protest has zero chance of bearing fruit.

Except when those posts against India are made, when people ask what business of Pakistanis is it, most of the time the answer is, they are Muslims and we are concerned about every Muslim brother. Each and every time. That doesn't tie in with the reasoning you are giving now

And pray tell me one action India has taken on the basis of protests by Pakistanis? Why would a democracy listen to the opinion of people from other countries? I was specifically talking about Pakistanis condemning happenings in India. So your second point about protests leading to actions also falls flat

 

[KarachiKing]

^ I am very clear in my reasoning.And I have clearly mentioned I dont personally support China's actions. I am just explaining the reason. If you or some other iNDIANS on the forum cannot understand that, then its your problem

 

[Wasim1]

^ I am very clear in my reasoning.And I have clearly mentioned I dont personally support China's actions. I am just explaining the reason. If you or some other iNDIANS on the forum cannot understand that, then its your problem

They why are you so concerned about the treatment of Indian Muslims and not Chinese Muslims

 

[KarachiKing]

They why are you so concerned about the treatment of Indian Muslims and not Chinese Muslims

Personally, I really dont give a flying f about any Indian, Muslim or otherwise.

 

[Zanjeer]

They obviously believe Islam is a big threat to Communism.
That's Why I believe Communism wont survive in any Islamic country.
Communism needs lesser, moderate religious beliefs to survive.
Islam has never been moderate, hence there will be conflicts with ideas like communalism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

They obviously believe Islam is a big threat to Communism.
That's Why I believe Communism wont survive in any Islamic country.
Communism needs lesser, moderate religious beliefs to survive.
Islam has never been moderate, hence there will be conflicts with ideas like communalism.

If anything that is closer to communism/socialism, it is Islam.
And lol, the threat always was capitalism, but China has adopted that.

 

[Zanjeer]

If anything that is closer to communism/socialism, it is Islam.
And lol, the threat always was capitalism, but China has adopted that.

Show me one Muslim Majority country which has adopted Communism?
Those who believe in Communism are either Christians, Buddhists or Hindus. Its very hard to meet a Muslim who believes in Communism and their ideologies.

In China, Why is it the government is hell bent on curbing Islamic religious beliefs? Those who believe in following strict Islamic beliefs wont agree to communism at all. Its a proven fact.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Show me one Muslim Majority country which has adopted Communism?
Those who believe in Communism are either Christians, Buddhists or Hindus. Its very hard to meet a Muslim who believes in Communism and their ideologies.

In China, Why is it the government is hell bent on curbing Islamic religious beliefs? Those who believe in following strict Islamic beliefs wont agree to communism at all. Its a proven fact.

Janjeer bhai, you did not get me. Socialist ideas are embedded in Islam ( socialism and communism are not exactly the same, but using them interchangeably here). Please read about the Ba'ath party in middle east, it was based on socialism.

China is also curbing Christianity and other religions, how do you explain that?

And you should start meeting Muslims more often, I have met plenty who have leftist views.

 

[Wattoo]

What happened to "their country their rules" ? China is not a democracy nor does it claim to give equal rights to everyone like some countries. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have forced their fasting rule on non muslims in public, so I guess this is the opposite reaction. Both actions are moronic.

In pakistan fasting rules are not forced on non muslims. I dont know from where you get this.

 

[yasir]

In pakistan fasting rules are not forced on non muslims. I dont know from where you get this.

Have to ever tried eating in public during Ramzan? - people will go after you like anything...

Muslim or no Muslim, why state and society is forcing me to have rosa???





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wattoo]

Have to ever tried eating in public during Ramzan? - people will go after you like anything...

Muslim or no Muslim, why state and society is forcing me to have rosa???





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Seen people eating in public many times, nothing happened. Even seen many small hotels serving food during day, people eating but nothing happened.

 

[Wattoo]

Have to ever tried eating in public during Ramzan? - people will go after you like anything...

Muslim or no Muslim, why state and society is forcing me to have rosa???





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I dont know any law which forces anyone to have roza. If you know, please tell me for my knowledge.

 

[hafeezrocks]

In pakistan fasting rules are not forced on non muslims. I dont know from where you get this.

KP govt bans public eating in Ramadan

Issuing a Ramadan ordinance, the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) government on Thursday announced a three-month imprisonment or a fine of Rs 50,000 as a punishment for anyone seen eating or drinking in the public during the day.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2013/07/11/national/kp-govt-bans-public-eating-in-ramadan/

What non-sense rules are these ? How is this anymore different than Saudi Arabia ? Why is the government makes such stupid rules ?

 

[yasir]

Seen people eating in public many times, nothing happened. Even seen many small hotels serving food during day, people eating but nothing happened.

Well it depends what do you mean by big deal? You want people to get killed to have a big deal? ... Small cities and villages it's a big deal... Many times they discourage to have hotels open... Generally few hotels open and that too in city central bazaars like sadar...

Attitude of people who fast is generally, how dare you are not fasting? - why people make big deal about fasting?


As far as China is concerned... Here again Pakistan and Pakistani public has dual standards... If it was done by western countries lot of hue and cry, since it is china... Pak-Cheen dosti zindabad, nobody cares...

We have same attitude towards another evil empire Saudi Arab, who cannot do wrong... Spread ignorance and hatred but people care less...

Pakistan has gone backward and extremist in last 30 years are so...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Varun]

Most Pakistanis probably aren't even aware that there has been a ban on Ramadhan in China. Even if there were protests, I doubt they would get any coverage, more than likely they would be suppressed.

How would Pakistanis protesting in Pakistan be suppressed, and by whom or what? Yet, when Mr. N Modi sneezes in a presence of a Muslim the protests will ring loud and clear, and you'll create a thread on here to that effect too.

 

[hafeezrocks]

More silly regulations.

Sindh this time,

Government of Sindh has issued “Respect Ramadan” ordinance. According to this ordinance during fasting (Roza) at public places eating, drinking,smoking is prohibited. No one will be allowed to eat or drink at public places during day time in Ramadan. All hotels, restaurants, cinemas and theatres will also be closed during fasting and no food restaurants will be allowed to do their business at fasting time

http://www.awamiweb.com/sindh-govt-issues-respect-ramadan-ordinance-66018.html

 

[hafeezrocks]

More silly regulations.

Sindh this time,



http://www.awamiweb.com/sindh-govt-issues-respect-ramadan-ordinance-66018.html

Respect Ramadan Ordinance LOL.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well it depends what do you mean by big deal? You want people to get killed to have a big deal? ... Small cities and villages it's a big deal... Many times they discourage to have hotels open... Generally few hotels open and that too in city central bazaars like sadar...

Attitude of people who fast is generally, how dare you are not fasting? - why people make big deal about fasting?


As far as China is concerned... Here again Pakistan and Pakistani public has dual standards... If it was done by western countries lot of hue and cry, since it is china... Pak-Cheen dosti zindabad, nobody cares...

We have same attitude towards another evil empire Saudi Arab, who cannot do wrong... Spread ignorance and hatred but people care less...

Pakistan has gone backward and extremist in last 30 years are so...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Saudi Arabia has given a lot of material support to Pakistan. You could argue that Pakistan has paid a high price for it in also allowing their Wahabbi culture to spread, but that is for the respective govts to decide. I doubt it is too much different to China. You would like to think that these countries would be displaced by now by more progressive countries in Pakistan public's minds, but it doesn't seem to have happened for some reason. Someone needs to convince the Pakistanis of just how much their other neighbours love them more, and no doubt reading this thread will help.

 

[Vegitto1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>The Chinese Ambassador has just informed me that the story re China "banning fasting" is entirely untrue. It is a hoax. A propaganda canard.</p>— George Galloway (@georgegalloway) <a href="https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/statuses/485781836053094401">July 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/485781836053094401


Comment: Western media is full of propaganda against anyone who does not toe the line. It is a shame that most would believe anything negative against countries like China and Pakistan etc. while laugh off accusations at Western countries as conspiracy theories.

 

[GenericBrand]

Al Jazeera is not a western media outlet.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Al Jazeera is not a western media outlet.

That much is true. I can't find it on Sky channels any more, I guess satellite technology has it's limits.

 

[Saeed]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>The Chinese Ambassador has just informed me that the story re China "banning fasting" is entirely untrue. It is a hoax. A propaganda canard.</p>— George Galloway (@georgegalloway) <a href="https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/statuses/485781836053094401">July 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/485781836053094401

So wasimbhai made us hate china for no reason, unbelievable.

 

[Wasim1]

Hahaha...you guys believe the words of the Chinese Ambassador? Thats like the head of ISI saying he had no idea Bin Laden was in Pakistan. Actually shouldnt be surpirsed there still is "no evidence implicating Hafeez Saeed".

I trust Al Jazeera, Time the Independent believe what you want.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...ghurs-defy-ramadan-ban-20147471125107552.html
http://time.com/2952833/china-bans-ramadan-fasting-for-officials-students-in-restive-northwest/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...kdown-on-minority-uighur-muslims-9580646.html

LOL at you guys praying the story is not true so that you can look a smidge less hypocritical at constantly condemning India Israel and the US and being mum on China.

 

[GenericBrand]

That much is true. I can't find it on Sky channels any more, I guess satellite technology has it's limits.

Every distinguished news outlet is reporting the same thing, be it Western, Eastern, Northern or w.e, but lets take the word of the Chinese ambassador

 

[Saqs]

How is one supposed to enforce this?

Are they going to force-feed every Muslim they know of during the day?

How can you enforce a passive thing like fasting lol.

 

[Saeed]

but lets take the word of the Chinese ambassador

And why should we take the word of some random Indian on some random forum as gospel. And ambassador could be right. Are you trying to say that every chinese ambassador is a lier or in wider case every chinese?

 

[sherlock89]

How is one supposed to enforce this?

Are they going to force-feed every Muslim they know of during the day?

How can you enforce a passive thing like fasting lol.

Only Students ,teachers and civil servants are banned maybe because they can be monitored and the chinese govt doesnt want them to be influenced by religion and also doesnt want them to influence others. Please correct me if I am wrong . Thats what I got from this article below.

Source : http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-...asting-muslim-province-20147371648541558.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hahaha...you guys believe the words of the Chinese Ambassador? Thats like the head of ISI saying he had no idea Bin Laden was in Pakistan. Actually shouldnt be surpirsed there still is "no evidence implicating Hafeez Saeed".

I trust Al Jazeera, Time the Independent believe what you want.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...ghurs-defy-ramadan-ban-20147471125107552.html
http://time.com/2952833/china-bans-ramadan-fasting-for-officials-students-in-restive-northwest/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...kdown-on-minority-uighur-muslims-9580646.html

LOL at you guys praying the story is not true so that you can look a smidge less hypocritical at constantly condemning India Israel and the US and being mum on China.

Who is Hafiz Saeed Wasim bhai, you have mentioned him a few times here along with Israel, India and the US. This fellow must be really important to your central theme here but in all honesty, here in the UK here isn't a household name like he is where you live in America.

 

[Wasim1]

The writers of Al Jazeera, Time, Al Arabiya and the Independent are Indians posting on this forum? Ambassador also says that Tibetans are treated like saints. You are only seeing what you want to believe....Israel India US are tormentors of Muslims and in China everything is A OKAY.

Again i reiterate:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...125107552.html
http://time.com/2952833/china-bans-r...ive-northwest/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-9580646.html
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...s-Ramadan-fast-in-mainly-Muslim-Xinjiang.html

 

[Wasim1]

Who is Hafiz Saeed Wasim bhai, you have mentioned him a few times here along with Israel, India and the US. This fellow must be really important to your central theme here but in all honesty, here in the UK here isn't a household name like he is where you live in America.

Im sure you know how to use google. Surprised such a defender of Islam has zero comment on his next door neighbor banning fasting.

 

[Saeed]

Surprised such a defender of Islam has zero comment on his next door neighbor banning fasting.

India banned Ramadhan? how surprising not. Be ready for Ghazwa-e-Hind, Pakistan will deal with this next door neighbor.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Im sure you know how to use google. Surprised such a defender of Islam has zero comment on his next door neighbor banning fasting.

Scotland hasn't banned fasting yet Wasim bhai, but we can only live in hope.

 

[nish_mate]

Their country- their citizens- their authoritarian rules- atleast they apply them uniformly.....guess there aint enough Hindus in China for the authorities to put a ban on navratri fasting.....