China is detaining Muslims in vast numbers - The Goal: ‘Transformation’ - Where is the outrage?

[saadibaba]

China is detaining Muslims in vast numbers - The Goal: ‘Transformation’ - Where is the outrage?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html


Interesting article if anyone is interested.

In short, our dear friend China is implementing the worse kind of human rights violations on Uighur Muslims. Forcing hundreds into detention camps for no reason and forcefully indoctrinating them. In these camps, they are forced to listen to lectures, sing hymns praising the Chinese Communist Party and write “self-criticism” essays, according to detainees who have been released.

The goal is to remove any devotion to Islam.


Now my question is simple. Why are the so called holy and self proclaimed guardians of Islam in our country, who always seem ready to bring out masses for protest, burn tires and force governments to resign, yes I am talking about Khadim Rizvi, have not uttered a single word over these atrocities happening right next door.

Forget him, what about the holy anchors and scholars of our country like "Oreo cookie" Maqbool Jan. "Lal topi" Zaid Hamid and "Dr.Dabardoos" Shahid Masood., etc.

What about our newly minted govt., the upholder of Islamic values and ideals. Has our Foreign Minister registered his protest with the Chinese govt. What about the PM himself, the brave and fearless leader who is not afraid of anyone. Has he said anything about this. If so please let me know. If not, is this not hypocrisy of the highest order. Does this not show that our so called Islamic pride only wakes up when it doesn't involve our allies, our sponsors and the supporters of our military....

 

[Mamoon]

We have been colonized by China. We should get used to this blithering hypocrisy.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

This is bit strange though,when western countries involved in any small discrimination people get worked up but complete silence when China does discrimination 100 times more.

Looks like Money is the biggest factor afterall.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

We have been colonized by China. We should get used to this blithering hypocrisy.

It's not only you most of the Muslim countries are silent on this.

 

[Mamoon]

It's not only you most of the Muslim countries are silent on this.

Unlike most Muslim countries and most Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis suffer from Ummah Custodian syndrome, so their silence on the atrocities of China is clearly hypocrisy of the highest order.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Unlike most Muslim countries and most Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis suffer from Ummah Custodian syndrome, so their silence on the atrocities of China is clearly hypocrisy of the highest order.

CPEC may be the reason.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis are not fully committed Muslims, their culture still shares many traits of their Hindu ancestors, something I have always been fairly happy about. But OP, Indian Hindutvas and other Pakistanis who are reluctant or lapsed Muslims do bring this topic up quite regularly so it deserves a considered response.

The concept of Islamic brotherhood, otherwise known as the Ummah, is a key part of the faith, but there is no central unified body of Muslims any more who can apply pressure to individual countries. The only unified political bodies are those set up by the US and it's subsidiary partners and these form collectives like NATO.

Pakistan has never been a theocracy I believe, if they were a true Islamic state as defined by the Islamic scholars, they would basically be the Taliban, and probably waging war on China as well as everyone else who oppressed Muslims.

 

[saadibaba]

Pakistanis are not fully committed Muslims, their culture still shares many traits of their Hindu ancestors, something I have always been fairly happy about. But OP, Indian Hindutvas and other Pakistanis who are reluctant or lapsed Muslims do bring this topic up quite regularly so it deserves a considered response.

The concept of Islamic brotherhood, otherwise known as the Ummah, is a key part of the faith, but there is no central unified body of Muslims any more who can apply pressure to individual countries. The only unified political bodies are those set up by the US and it's subsidiary partners and these form collectives like NATO.

Pakistan has never been a theocracy I believe, if they were a true Islamic state as defined by the Islamic scholars, they would basically be the Taliban, and probably waging war on China as well as everyone else who oppressed Muslims.

You post quite remarkably missed the entire point of this thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You post quite remarkably missed the entire point of this thread.

I understand your point which was well made, I am just providing some missing context which can help readers understand the topic more fully. It's a good thread so the more substance we can add can only help. You can continue to press home the arguments which you wish to highlight as you feel appropriate.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

I understand your point which was well made, I am just providing some missing context which can help readers understand the topic more fully. It's a good thread so the more substance we can add can only help. You can continue to press home the arguments which you wish to highlight as you feel appropriate.

I guess OP is thinking if Pakistanis can protest against perceived atrocities against Palestinians/Indian Muslims/Rohingyas or even the cancelled Cartoon contest in Netherlands then what stops them protesting against China.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I guess OP is thinking if Pakistanis can protest against perceived atrocities against Palestinians/Indian Muslims/Rohingyas or even the cancelled Cartoon contest in Netherlands then what stops them protesting against China.

Is anything stopping them from protesting? China seems to have a favourable reputation among Pakistanis for some reason, I can only imagine it has something to do with trade or commerce ties. As I already surmised, Pakistanis are not as a whole fully committed Muslims, hence the religious parties have tended to fare badly in elections.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Is anything stopping them from protesting? China seems to have a favourable reputation among Pakistanis for some reason, I can only imagine it has something to do with trade or commerce ties. As I already surmised, Pakistanis are not as a whole fully committed Muslims, hence the religious parties have tended to fare badly in elections.

But they tend to get agitated for Palestine/India/France/Rohingya. I guess there was a big protest against Cartoon contest in Netherlands so saying Pakistanis doesn't committed to religion despite overwhelming evidence is strange.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But they tend to get agitated for Palestine/India/France/Rohingya. I guess there was a big protest against Cartoon contest in Netherlands so saying Pakistanis doesn't committed to religion despite overwhelming evidence is strange.

Where is this overwhelming evidence that Pakistanis are committed to religion? If anything the evidence is overwhelming to the opposite. As already mentioned, the religious parties barely get 5-10% of the vote in elections, that evidence is pretty overwhelming.

Protests are ten a penny in the subcontinent, perhaps if India, France or Netherlands struck up friendship and co-operation deals with Pakistan then there would be less protests aimed at them as well.

 

[enkidu_]

The reason they're missing from this thread is the same that some others open such threads and are missing elsewhere.

The Westphalian order and its liberal-capitalist fetishism of geopolitical realpolitik in the name of the greater economic good has made sure that, forget China (in this case everyone purposefully misses the ethnic angle, as it targets Turkic-Uyghurs and not its "own" Hui's, which is bad on its own but far from a "war on Islam"), if there was a legitimate Islamic power following an Islamic brand of political philosophy (al-wala' wal-bara'), the first nation to have been boycotted would have been the US, which has caused the most miseries to Muslims since Hulagu Khan entered Baghdad in 1258.

Etymologically, ummah' is linked with umm, "mother", which shows the sanctity of the communatarian link which should ideally exist between all Muslims, transcending materialistic considerations of modern diplomacy, like the bond between a mother and her child : if Muslims don't respect themselves it's no surprise they do arm deals weighting 100s billions of dollars with the US, weapons mainly (if not exclusively) used against Yemenis.

Muslims should become a genuine force again - beginning by overthrowing their incompetent/corrupt politicians/governors and investing into the human capital - and unite if they want to afford such drastic decisions, it's as cynical as this.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

The reason they're missing from this thread is the same that some others open such threads and are missing elsewhere.
.

Not about this thread why Political and establishment silent in Pakistan?

 

[enkidu_]

Not about this thread why Political and establishment silent in Pakistan?

"why Political and establishment silent" about US wars ?

It's just you Indians and "liberals" in Pak who have discovered this new China fetish but otherwise you can apply it to a dozen of other nation-States.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Where is this overwhelming evidence that Pakistanis are committed to religion? If anything the evidence is overwhelming to the opposite. As already mentioned, the religious parties barely get 5-10% of the vote in elections, that evidence is pretty overwhelming.

Protests are ten a penny in the subcontinent, perhaps if India, France or Netherlands struck up friendship and co-operation deals with Pakistan then there would be less protests aimed at them as well.

Getting vote is different story..they have held protest for multiple reasons.And even your PM opposed Cartoon contest in a different country but silent when millions are struggling.

 

[Pakistanian]

This is mainly an ethnic conflict with religious undertones. Uigurs are Turks whereas the Han are your regular east asians.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

"why Political and establishment silent" about US wars ?

It's just you Indians and "liberals" in Pak who have discovered this new China fetish but otherwise you can apply it to a dozen of other nation-States.

Other state Pakistani establishment always opposes vehemently..recent example is Netherlands Cartoon contest which is wrong but still didn't harmed even single person but here what China doing is totally different.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

This is mainly an ethnic conflict with religious undertones. Uigurs are Turks whereas the Han are your regular east asians.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/china-muslim-crackdown-180817124426381.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Getting vote is different story..they have held protest for multiple reasons.And even your PM opposed Cartoon contest in a different country but silent when millions are struggling.

A reply of "Getting vote is different story" is no sort of reply at all. If I put overwhelming evidence to you to support my point that Pakistanis are not fully committed Muslims, then you will need to do better than that if you want to engage in a discussion. Why is it a different story? What is your reasoning?

Please answer that, then we can move onto PM and cartoon contests which I have already addressed superficially for your benefit.

 

[troodon]

China does what it wants. Nobody can question them. Not even US seems to challenge them much these days except for some outrage.
Pakistan is nothing in front of them. Chinese are bullies.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

A reply of "Getting vote is different story" is no sort of reply at all. If I put overwhelming evidence to you to support my point that Pakistanis are not fully committed Muslims, then you will need to do better than that if you want to engage in a discussion. Why is it a different story? What is your reasoning?

Please answer that, then we can move onto PM and cartoon contests which I have already addressed superficially for your benefit.

The evidence you are giving is Pakistanis not fully committed Muslims because they didn't voted Terrorists? That's insult to regular Pakistanis.You are implying to fully commit to Islam they have to vote for people who are extremists/supports terrorists etc?

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

China does what it wants. Nobody can question them. Not even US seems to challenge them much these days except for some outrage.
Pakistan is nothing in front of them. Chinese are bullies.

But it also shows the hypocrisy of how world works.End of day Money>>>>>>Ideology.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The evidence you are giving is Pakistanis not fully committed Muslims because they didn't voted Terrorists? That's insult to regular Pakistanis.You are implying to fully commit to Islam they have to vote for people who are extremists/supports terrorists etc?

Where are you getting this definition of Pakistani religious parties as terrorists my Indian friend?

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Where are you getting this definition of Pakistani religious parties as terrorists my Indian friend?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1420647

https://www.dawn.com/news/1421529

https://www.rferl.org/a/from-terror...ni-extremists-contest-elections/29388270.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1420647

https://www.dawn.com/news/1421529

https://www.rferl.org/a/from-terror...ni-extremists-contest-elections/29388270.html

There is no definition there, only vague US based concern about one party which was contesting unsuccessfully in the elections. What is your point with regard to this topic? Do you feel that Pakistanis should be more committed to Islam in order to empathise with Muslims mistreated in China? Or perhaps you feel they should reject all ties to Islamic brotherhood as this is inconsistent with their religious ideology? Is that what you would prefer my Indian friend?

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

There is no definition there, only vague US based concern about one party which was contesting unsuccessfully in the elections. What is your point with regard to this topic? Do you feel that Pakistanis should be more committed to Islam in order to empathise with Muslims mistreated in China? Or perhaps you feel they should reject all ties to Islamic brotherhood as this is inconsistent with their religious ideology? Is that what you would prefer my Indian friend?

Pakistanis are free to do whatever they want..just curious why they protest at certain countries but maintains silence at certain others for same or even bigger act..I guess it's probably Money being the biggest factor rather than any set ideology..Nothing wrong in that though.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis are free to do whatever they want..just curious why they protest at certain countries but maintains silence at certain others for same or even bigger act..I guess it's probably Money being the biggest factor rather than any set ideology..Nothing wrong in that though.

Yes, as I said in my initial post in this thread, Pakistanis are semi-serious Muslims, generally they will put money first like 99% of the world's population, and indeed that is probably a good thing if we were to consider the alternative which might look like ISIS or the Taliban.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Yes, as I said in my initial post in this thread, Pakistanis are semi-serious Muslims, generally they will put money first like 99% of the world's population, and indeed that is probably a good thing if we were to consider the alternative which might look like ISIS or the Taliban.

Fair enough.May be some opportunists involved in protests like happened during cartoon event.

 

[Realromeo]

Is this even true ? Where is the outrage from Pakistan towards China now ?

 

[Adijazz1706]

China has been suppressing Islam and Christianity for a long time now, demolishing mosques and churches wholesale. If the USA is unable to speak up for the Christian suffering, I can't see a country like Pakistan speaking up for the Muslims. Unfortunate but true

 

[Eagle_Eye]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html


Interesting article if anyone is interested.

In short, our dear friend China is implementing the worse kind of human rights violations on Uighur Muslims. Forcing hundreds into detention camps for no reason and forcefully indoctrinating them. In these camps, they are forced to listen to lectures, sing hymns praising the Chinese Communist Party and write “self-criticism” essays, according to detainees who have been released.

The goal is to remove any devotion to Islam.


Now my question is simple. Why are the so called holy and self proclaimed guardians of Islam in our country, who always seem ready to bring out masses for protest, burn tires and force governments to resign, yes I am talking about Khadim Rizvi, have not uttered a single word over these atrocities happening right next door.

Forget him, what about the holy anchors and scholars of our country like "Oreo cookie" Maqbool Jan. "Lal topi" Zaid Hamid and "Dr.Dabardoos" Shahid Masood., etc.

What about our newly minted govt., the upholder of Islamic values and ideals. Has our Foreign Minister registered his protest with the Chinese govt. What about the PM himself, the brave and fearless leader who is not afraid of anyone. Has he said anything about this. If so please let me know. If not, is this not hypocrisy of the highest order. Does this not show that our so called Islamic pride only wakes up when it doesn't involve our allies, our sponsors and the supporters of our military....

Bilawal has nothing to say on the issue?

 

[troodon]

This is mainly an ethnic conflict with religious undertones. Uigurs are Turks whereas the Han are your regular east asians.

Uyghers looks like any typical Chinese to me. Granted I only saw a few pictures of them on the internet articles and News Channels.

 

[troodon]

China has been suppressing Islam and Christianity for a long time now, demolishing mosques and churches wholesale. If the USA is unable to speak up for the Christian suffering, I can't see a country like Pakistan speaking up for the Muslims. Unfortunate but true

USA is not a Christian country. Europe and US are just Christian majority nations but not Christian nations. Even among them many are turning to Atheism..

 

[enkidu_]

Uyghers looks like any typical Chinese to me. Granted I only saw a few pictures of them on the internet articles and News Channels.

Not at all, they're easily recognizable. They might be the only Chinese minority which looks drastically different from the dominant Han's, even the Kazakhs or Mongolians, and even more the Manchus, you can't see the difference, but with Uyghurs it's easy. In fact Chinese know that, that's why they're preferred when it comes to modelling, for their ambiguous "Eurasian" looks :

Modeling Agencies Are Hiring Chinese Uyghur Models For Their Eurasian Looks

While international brands have long been using Caucasian models to market their fashion goods to China, local labels seemed to have found a “middle ground” in hiring Uyghur models to promote their products.

Mandarin-speaking members of the majorly Muslim ethnic minority group from China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is now filling up the local industry’s demand for models who possess a “half-Asian, half-European” look.

In an interview with NPR, 19-year-old Uyghur model Xahriyar Abdukerimabliz was quick to highlight why they are in such demand.

“Not to brag, but we are very good-looking,” Abdukerimabliz was quoted as saying. “Our facial features are naturally attractive. We’ve got great eyebrows, big, beautiful eyes and double eyelids that weren’t created by a surgeon.”
(...)

https://nextshark.com/modeling-agencies-hiring-chinese-uyghur-models-eurasian-looks/

USA is not a Christian country. Europe and US are just Christian majority nations but not Christian nations. Even among them many are turning to Atheism..

You should read Kevin Phillips (ex-Republican adviser)'s book "American theocracy" then, the US is plagued by Christian millenarists at the top political positions who have only one wish in life : to establish Israel, not so much because Jews are cool (they actually expect the majority of them being killed, remaining converted), but to bring Christ and thus the final world war.

He shows that the creeping Christianization of US politics since esp. the 70s/80s, and say it's the single biggest threat to the US survival than the two other major problems he identifies, nominally, reliance on oil and borrowed money/public debt.

Also, half of Americans still identify as Christians, but even if they were a minority it wouldn't mean some of them can't infiltrate the the relevant spheres of politics (like Arab countries have 98-99% Muslims but majority of them are or have been secular dictatorships.)

 

[troodon]

Not at all, they're easily recognizable. They might be the only Chinese minority which looks drastically different from the dominant Han's, even the Kazakhs or Mongolians, and even more the Manchus, you can't see the difference, but with Uyghurs it's easy. In fact Chinese know that, that's why they're preferred when it comes to modelling, for their ambiguous "Eurasian" looks :

Modeling Agencies Are Hiring Chinese Uyghur Models For Their Eurasian Looks



https://nextshark.com/modeling-agencies-hiring-chinese-uyghur-models-eurasian-looks/



You should read Kevin Phillips (ex-Republican adviser)'s book "American theocracy" then, the US is plagued by Christian millenarists at the top political positions who have only one wish in life : to establish Israel, not so much because Jews are cool (they actually expect the majority of them being killed, remaining converted), but to bring Christ and thus the final world war.

He shows that the creeping Christianization of US politics since esp. the 70s/80s, and say it's the single biggest threat to the US survival than the two other major problems he identifies, nominally, reliance on oil and borrowed money/public debt.

Also, half of Americans still identify as Christians, but even if they were a minority it wouldn't mean some of them can't infiltrate the the relevant spheres of politics (like Arab countries have 98-99% Muslims but majority of them are or have been secular dictatorships.)

I live in USA and I know how religious Christians are. They are all just name sake Christians. The bible belt country side people are a bit more religious.

USA is so Christian that they cannot even have Ten Commandments monuments in Government places. They have been removed.

 

[Bewal Express]

I agree the behaviour of the Chinese govt is despicable and their behaviour towards Muslims is barbaric. We the muslims are weak because our imaan is weak, but the Chinese need to remember that Allah is the best of planners

 

[PakLFC]

Pak can not fight everything on it's own. We managed to stop the blasphemous Dutch cartoons. Someone else should also do something for a change as well.

 

[JaDed]

I agree the behaviour of the Chinese govt is despicable and their behaviour towards Muslims is barbaric. We the muslims are weak because our imaan is weak, but the Chinese need to remember that Allah is the best of planners

The Chinese don't believe in God and they r still doing well, food for thought?

 

[saadibaba]

China has been suppressing Islam and Christianity for a long time now, demolishing mosques and churches wholesale. If the USA is unable to speak up for the Christian suffering, I can't see a country like Pakistan speaking up for the Muslims. Unfortunate but true

China does what it wants. Nobody can question them. Not even US seems to challenge them much these days except for some outrage.
Pakistan is nothing in front of them. Chinese are bullies.

U.S. Weighs Sanctions Against Chinese Officials Over Muslim Detention Camps

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is considering sanctions against Chinese senior officials and companies to punish Beijing’s detention of hundreds of thousands of ethnic Uighurs and other minority Muslims in large internment camps, according to current and former American officials.

The economic penalties would be one of the first times the Trump administration has taken action against China because of human rights violations. United States officials are also seeking to limit American sales of surveillance technology that Chinese security agencies and companies are using to monitor Uighurs throughout northwest China.

Discussions to rebuke China for its treatment of its minority Muslims have been underway for months among officials at the White House and the Treasury and State Departments. But they gained urgency two weeks ago, after members of Congress asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to impose sanctions on seven Chinese officials.

Until now, President Trump has largely resisted punishing China for its human rights record, or even accusing it of widespread violations. If approved, the penalties would fuel an already bitter standoff with Beijing over trade and pressure on North Korea’s nuclear program.


Last month, a United Nations panel confronted Chinese diplomats in Geneva over the detentions. The camps for Chinese Muslims have been the target of growing international criticism and investigative reports, including by The New York Times.

Human rights advocates and legal scholars say the mass detentions in the northwest region of Xinjiang are the worst collective human rights abuse in China in decades. Since taking power in 2012, President Xi Jinping has steered China on a hard authoritarian course, which includes increased repression of large ethnic groups in western China, notably the Uighurs and Tibetans.



On Sunday, Human Rights Watch released a detailed report that concluded that the violations were of a “scope and scale not seen in China since the 1966-1976 Cultural Revolution.” The report, based on interviews with 58 former residents of Xinjiang, recommended that other nations impose targeted sanctions on Chinese officials, withhold visas and control exports of technology that could be used for abuses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/world/asia/us-china-sanctions-muslim-camps.html

 

[hussain.r97]

Uyghers looks like any typical Chinese to me. Granted I only saw a few pictures of them on the internet articles and News Channels.

Because Uighurs are Turks, and Turks are all originally from the region around Western China. They lived close to the Chinese and Mongolian people, and hence, naturally look kind of similar (though there are some distinct differences). However, both are definitely two distinct races.

If you are thinking of Turks as "Turkish people", the people living in Turkey are not native to Anatolia, they settled Anatolia in the 11th - 12th centuries after the Seljuk Turk invasion. Turkish people no longer look like other Turks because they mixed with the local Anatolian populations, mainly Greeks, Armenians, and Middle Easterners, and now no longer have much "Turk blood" left in them. People in Turkey generally only get about 10-15% Central Asian in DNA testing.

 

[hussain.r97]

This is mainly an ethnic conflict with religious undertones. Uigurs are Turks whereas the Han are your regular east asians.

Exactly this. The conflict itself is not a religious one, it is against the East Turkestan separatist movement.

It is also worth mentioning that many Uighurs are part of or support the Turkestan Islamic Party (formerly East Turkestan Islamic Movement), an organisation affiliated with Al-Qaeda, with the objective of liberating East Turkestan, and then forming a "caliphate" in central Asia. They have also carried out attacks on Pakistani soil and even have their headquarters in Waziristan. The organisation is said to have links with the East Turkestan Education and Solidarity Association, another (non militant) Uighur separatist movement based in Istanbul. China accuses Turkey of supporting the Turkestan Islamic Party through the ETESA.

While what China are doing is inhumane and wrong, there is no religious element to this. China are silencing a rebellion by trying to "transform" Uighurs into "Chinese people". I also think that these reports should be taken with caution as they are from western media, and for all we know, these people being "transformed" are possible terrorists. Again, I am not justifying or endorsing China's way of dealing with them, but these are just some facts that need to be considered.

 

[Pakistanian]

Uyghers looks like any typical Chinese to me. Granted I only saw a few pictures of them on the internet articles and News Channels.

There are differences and ethnicity has nothing to do with what you look like. All south indians look the same to me that doesn't mean Tamils and Malaylees are the same ethnicity.

Uighurs are Turks like the Kazakhs and Uzbeks, it's the same cultural region.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Unlike most Muslim countries and most Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis suffer from Ummah Custodian syndrome, so their silence on the atrocities of China is clearly hypocrisy of the highest order.

Ummah custodian syndrome ) I’m using that

 

[Pakistanian]

I live in USA and I know how religious Christians are. They are all just name sake Christians. The bible belt country side people are a bit more religious.

USA is so Christian that they cannot even have Ten Commandments monuments in Government places. They have been removed.

Dude your comments are overly simplistic.

 

[Hitman]

China installing QR codes on Uighur Muslim homes in mass security crackdown

China is installing QR codes on the homes of the Uyghur Muslim community in order to get instant access to the personal details of people living there, according to a report by Human Rights Watch (HRW).

The development comes as part of a mass security crackdown on minorities in Xinjiang province, the charity said, which includes arbitrary detentions, daily restrictions on religious practice and “forced political indoctrination”.

Officials reportedly scan the “smart” doorplates with mobile devices before entering homes to monitor the inhabitants.

“They did take our DNA samples and iris scans when we applied for the passports,” a middle-aged woman who left Xinjiang last year said. “For those who can read, they read out from a paper but for those who cannot, they said, ‘You can sing a song or tell a story and we will record you’. You aren’t in a position to argue with them.”

She added people were even forced to walk back and forth at police stations so officials could record their gait.

The United Nations human rights panel in August said China is believed to be holding up to one million ethnic Uyghurs in a secretive system of “internment camps” in Xinjiang, where they undergo political education.

Beijing has denied such camps are for “political education”, insisting instead they are vocational training centres, part of government initiatives to bolster economic growth and social mobility in the region.

China has said Xinjiang faces a serious threat from Islamist militants and separatists who plot attacks and stir up tensions between Uyghurs who call the region home and the ethnic Han Chinese majority.

Uyghurs and other Muslims held in the camps are forbidden from using Islamic greetings, must learn Mandarin Chinese and sing propaganda songs, according to former camp detainees interviewed by HRW.

People in Xinjiang with relatives living abroad in one of 26 “sensitive countries”, including Kazakhstan, Turkey and Indonesia, have reportedly been targeted by the authorities and are often held for several months, without any formal procedure.

Punishments for refusing to follow instructions in the camp could mean being denied food, being forced to stand for 24 hours or even solitary confinement, HRW said.

China’s foreign ministry spokesperson, Geng Shuang, declined to give a detailed response to the report and said HRW was a group “full of prejudice” against China.

Measures in Xinjiang aim to “promote stability, development, unity and livelihoods”, while also cracking down on “ethnic separatism and violent terrorist criminal activities”, he said.

Security conditions in Xinjiang outside the camps have also intensified markedly and now bear “a striking resemblance to those inside”, said Hong Kong-based HRW researcher Maya Wang, who has interviewed 58 former Xinjiang residents now living abroad.

Ms Wang and her team only spoke with people who had left Xinjiang due to a lack of access to the region and to avoid endangering those still living there.

Monitoring of Islamic religious practices, such as asking people how often they pray and the closure of mosques, as well as regular visits by party officials to rural parts of Xinjiang, mean that practising Islam “has effectively been outlawed”, Ms Wang said.

Link: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...qr-codes-security-crackdown-hrw-a8532156.html

 

[Slim]

Something straight out of George Orwell's 1984. China for its development is still one of the worst when it comes to freedom of speech, freedom of access to information and human rights.

 

[troodon]

Next, they are going to install micro chips on Muslims to track their every move.

 

[Mp812]

If China
Then ignore ++
Else
Then protest ++
Endif

 

[bond]

Its very confusing - dollar/weapons providing iron birathers vs umma

 

[Slog]

Unlike most Muslim countries and most Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis suffer from Ummah Custodian syndrome, so their silence on the atrocities of China is clearly hypocrisy of the highest order.

Lazy analysis which most people suffer from here.

Pakistanis don’t care about what happened in Afghanistan and Myanmar or Palestine just because they are Muslims. People here do that due to our historical and emotional links with those places. Afghanistan and Myanmar are tied to Pakistan history and heck Jinnah even commented on Rohingyas back then when they expressed desire to be part of Pakistan. Similarly Palestine has deep religious and cultural value to Muslims due to its part in the history of Islam.

Pakistanis don’t have as much concern about Chinese Uighurs or Sudan’s Muslims or even muslims in Dagestan due to our lack of cultural link to them

 

[Hitman]

Lazy analysis which most people suffer from here.

Pakistanis don’t care about what happened in Afghanistan and Myanmar or Palestine just because they are Muslims. People here do that due to our historical and emotional links with those places. Afghanistan and Myanmar are tied to Pakistan history and heck Jinnah even commented on Rohingyas back then when they expressed desire to be part of Pakistan. Similarly Palestine has deep religious and cultural value to Muslims due to its part in the history of Islam.

Pakistanis don’t have as much concern about Chinese Uighurs or Sudan’s Muslims or even muslims in Dagestan due to our lack of cultural link to them

What about the unfortunate victims of the Gujrat riots in India?

 

[CricketCartoons]

What about the unfortunate victims of the Gujrat riots in India?

Lazy analysts will say because of religion, but those who know will say it is because Jinnah was a gujrati muslim, so pakistanis have emotional connection with that community.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

The world is dictated by the interests of the nation states. Selective amnesia is part the game. Pakistan has already got too many hostility on its borders and we don’t want to add another world power into that list. Instead of outraging about it, we can open our borders to them and I have the same suggestion for the Pakistani government with regards to the Muslims of Eastern Kashmir.

 

[hussain.r97]

The world is dictated by the interests of the nation states. Selective amnesia is part the game. Pakistan has already got too many hostility on its borders and we don’t want to add another world power into that list. Instead of outraging about it, we can open our borders to them and I have the same suggestion for the Pakistani government with regards to the Muslims of Eastern Kashmir.

There are Uyghurs in Pakistan, the East Turkestan Islamic Movement is also headquartered in Pakistan, and have also been involved in terrorist attacks on Pakistani soil. Pakistan must be wary of them.

China are doing horrific things with these people, and there is absolutely no justification. However, consider this, there are 10 million Hui Chinese Muslims living in China peacefully, with total freedom of practice of religion. They all live in Northwestern China, and they are not persecuted or anything. A similar number of Uighurs live in China, in Xinxiang. If China were persecuting them for their faith, they would have persecuted the Hui Muslims too, but they don't. The reason in that the Hui live in China peacefully, and are law abiding citizens.

The Uighurs on the other hand are mostly separatists, and many of them protest for separatism through violent means, advocating for the formation of a "Caliphate". The East Turkestan Islamic Movement is affiliated with Al Qaeda, and because of this, the Chinese are very wary of the Uighur population, and have resorted to the most horrific and despicable methods to bring them in line.

 

[LongHorn]

China are doing horrific things with these people, and there is absolutely no justification. However, consider this, there are 10 million Hui Chinese Muslims living in China peacefully, with total freedom of practice of religion. They all live in Northwestern China, and they are not persecuted or anything. A similar number of Uighurs live in China, in Xinxiang. If China were persecuting them for their faith, they would have persecuted the Hui Muslims too, but they don't. The reason in that the Hui live in China peacefully, and are law abiding citizens.
.

At first glance this logic sounds true, but its a dangerous one.

This is the same one Mynamar can use for killing Rohingyas; that there are other Muslims not being killed, so it must be the Rohingyas fault

And India for Kashmir, as to how so many Muslims outside Kashmir live happily (at least until Modi govt), and that Kashmiris are being punished because they are not living peacefully

 

[hussain.r97]

At first glance this logic sounds true, but its a dangerous one.

This is the same one Mynamar can use for killing Rohingyas; that there are other Muslims not being killed, so it must be the Rohingyas fault

And India for Kashmir, as to how so many Muslims outside Kashmir live happily (at least until Modi govt), and that Kashmiris are being punished because they are not living peacefully

I am not saying it is a justification for killing the Uighurs, nor do I think there is any justification. I am just pointing out the fact that whatever is happening in Xinxiang is not a hate for Muslims or Islam, rather, it is China's actions against an independence movement by a group of people, many of whom have ended up in Al Qaeda affiliated groups, such as the Turkestan Islamic Party/East Turkestan Islamic Movement.

In a perfect world, this injustice should be raised by all countries on an international platform, especially the neighbouring Turkic central Asian countries like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrghyzstan. However, all these countries are massively indebted to China, the same way Pakistan are indebted to China.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

There are Uyghurs in Pakistan, the East Turkestan Islamic Movement is also headquartered in Pakistan, and have also been involved in terrorist attacks on Pakistani soil. Pakistan must be wary of them.

China are doing horrific things with these people, and there is absolutely no justification. However, consider this, there are 10 million Hui Chinese Muslims living in China peacefully, with total freedom of practice of religion. They all live in Northwestern China, and they are not persecuted or anything. A similar number of Uighurs live in China, in Xinxiang. If China were persecuting them for their faith, they would have persecuted the Hui Muslims too, but they don't. The reason in that the Hui live in China peacefully, and are law abiding citizens.

The Uighurs on the other hand are mostly separatists, and many of them protest for separatism through violent means, advocating for the formation of a "Caliphate". The East Turkestan Islamic Movement is affiliated with Al Qaeda, and because of this, the Chinese are very wary of the Uighur population, and have resorted to the most horrific and despicable methods to bring them in line.

The thing is that you can not persecute a whole community just because some members of the group are a potential national security threat. This persecution, to me, is no different to what USA does to some innocent Muslims in Guantanamo Bay through ethnic and racial profiling.

 

[BlackShadow]

The answer to this is quite simple. Majority of the Ummah (even the ones with most ghairat) need roti in their bellies. China for many is the last hope of an economic revival, hence the quiet.

 

[hussain.r97]

The thing is that you can not persecute a whole community just because some members of the group are a potential national security threat. This persecution, to me, is no different to what USA does to some innocent Muslims in Guantanamo Bay through ethnic and racial profiling.

I am definitely not saying that China are doing the right thing, but what's happening in Xinxiang should not be taken as "China attacking Muslims", it is more an attack on militarized seperatists, similar to the BLA in Balochistan, except the BLA do not use extreme Islam to spread their beliefs.

 

[shaz619]

Sickening, we need raise more awareness regarding this issue and the media have also black listed the genocide of these people. To answer the OP, from the POV of asian muslims it is simple, unless they are arab then there will be no outrage at all am afraid.

 

[shaz619]

I just find it pathetic in general that posters use this oppourtunity to point score in general it's usually the first thing that comes to their mind, they are too detached from the suffering of people in general and are no different to the oppressive blood thirsty psychopaths.

 

[Slog]

What about the unfortunate victims of the Gujrat riots in India?

Arent they subcontinental Muslims?

 

[hussain.r97]

Religious affairs minister discusses treatment of Xinjiang Muslims with Chinese envoy

Federal Minister for Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony Noorul Haq Qadri met Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Yao Xing on Wednesday to discuss bilateral relations and matters of mutual interest, chief among them the treatment of the Xinjiang Muslim community.

"Pakistan's friendship with China is above and beyond any political agenda, the roots of which lie deep within the people," said Qadri.

The federal minister remarked that the CPEC was a matter of national priority and expressed full confidence in it.

Moving onto more urgent matters, Qadri spoke about the Muslims facing numerous restrictions in China's Xinjiang province and demanded that they be given relaxations.

"The placement of restrictions increases the chances of an extremist viewpoint growing in reaction," the minister told the Chinese ambassador, asserting that concrete steps need to be taken to weed out such a mindset and promulgate interfaith harmony.

The two also discussed talks between religious scholars belonging to Xinjiang and Pakistan.

"The Chinese government is the bearer of Sufi and moderate thought and resolves to sort the differences between various religious groups," said the Chinese ambassador.

He invited Qadri for a visit to China which the federal minister accepted.

The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province.

"Exchange of viewpoints between religious scholars of both countries is vital for better interfaith relations," Xing remarked.

He said that there were 20 million Muslims living in China who enjoyed complete freedom to practice their faith.

"Pakistan is an important representative of the Muslim world and we want to further strengthen Pak-China relations on an Islamic level," Xing said adding that they will take the Muslim community living in China into confidence for achieving the same.

He expressed China's interest in working with Pakistan to develop an educational curriculum for the Muslim community.

"With Pakistan's cooperation, China desires to work for the social development of the former Fata region and Afghan migrants," he added.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1433886/r...atment-of-xinjiang-muslims-with-chinese-envoy

 

[BlackShadow]

I discussed this matter with a Chinese friend, and he told me that the region would be a second Kashmir if govt. allowed Islam to flourish. Is it true? Do they have a religiously inspired separatist movement there?

 

[hussain.r97]

I discussed this matter with a Chinese friend, and he told me that the region would be a second Kashmir if govt. allowed Islam to flourish. Is it true? Do they have a religiously inspired separatist movement there?

Yes, there is a separatist movement, and they use "religion" to spread their beliefs. Read up about the Turkestan Islamic Party/East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a group affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Not exactly like Kashmir, as Kashmiris wanted to be with Pakistan since Pakistan was formed. On the other hand, Uighurs have been part of China for centuries, and have never really had their own country.

 

[James]

Lazy analysis which most people suffer from here.

Pakistanis don’t care about what happened in Afghanistan and Myanmar or Palestine just because they are Muslims. People here do that due to our historical and emotional links with those places. Afghanistan and Myanmar are tied to Pakistan history and heck Jinnah even commented on Rohingyas back then when they expressed desire to be part of Pakistan. Similarly Palestine has deep religious and cultural value to Muslims due to its part in the history of Islam.

Pakistanis don’t have as much concern about Chinese Uighurs or Sudan’s Muslims or even muslims in Dagestan due to our lack of cultural link to them

I thought that Islam was meant to be a universal brotherhood and sisterhood, that’s what I’ve always been told.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I thought that Islam was meant to be a universal brotherhood and sisterhood, that’s what I’ve always been told.

You'll have been told that by committed Muslims who put their faith above everything else. There are many Pakistanis who fit that description, but also there are many Pakistanis who put politics and pragmatism first, and that is something you will find in Muslim countries everywhere. Not everyone is religious to the same degree. Just look at Afghanistan where you had the Taliban on one hand, and you had communist puppet Najibullah in the opposite camp.

 

[enkidu_]

Well at least verbal concern if anything, our worried and concerned friends can now say Pakistan jindabad :

Pakistan urges China to ease pressure on Uighur Muslims amid warnings by right groups

Pakistan has urged China to ease pressure on the country’s Muslim minorities amid warnings by rights groups.

China’s Uighur Muslims currently face strict restrictions on religious activities and mass detention in so-called “re-education camps”.

The appeal is significant as Pakistan has traditionally had good ties with its large neighbour.

Pakistan’s minister for religious affairs, Noorul Haq Qadri met Chinese representative Yao Xing earlier this week to discuss the treatment of the Uighur population in China’s western Xinjiang province.
(...)
Mr Qadri said the treatment of the religious minority could foment reactionary extremist views and urged Beijing to take concrete steps to address the issue.

Analysts say Pakistan’s move is noteworthy amid growing pressure on China over human right’s violations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...aq-qadri-mass-detention-torture-a8548346.html

 

[Rishikesh]

China 'categorically rejects' Islamabad 'Xinjiang criticism' reports

https://tribune.com.pk/story/180895...rejects-islamabad-xinjiang-criticism-reports/

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

China 'categorically rejects' Islamabad 'Xinjiang criticism' reports

https://tribune.com.pk/story/180895...rejects-islamabad-xinjiang-criticism-reports/

There's nothing categorical in there, not even any quotes.

 

[Rishikesh]

There's nothing categorical in there, not even any quotes.

The press release said a news item carried by APP the same day accurately reported the meeting. Some local and international media, however, presented baseless and distorted versions of the meeting.

These, the Chinese embassy, categorically rejected. Haq was reported to have called on Beijing to soften restrictions placed on Uighur Muslims residing in China’s western province of Xinjiang in the ‘baseless and distorted’ reports.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The press release said a news item carried by APP the same day accurately reported the meeting. Some local and international media, however, presented baseless and distorted versions of the meeting.

These, the Chinese embassy, categorically rejected. Haq was reported to have called on Beijing to soften restrictions placed on Uighur Muslims residing in China’s western province of Xinjiang in the ‘baseless and distorted’ reports.

Like I said nothing categorical in there, and 'baseless and distorted' could be referring to anything. It might be as you are suggesting, but the article you linked doesn't actually show it.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The scale and depravity of China’s war against its Uighur population is truly astonishing. <a href="https://t.co/9z0ji5jEDZ">https://t.co/9z0ji5jEDZ</a></p>— Shiraz Maher (@ShirazMaher) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShirazMaher/status/1192038936555769857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[The Viper]

U.S. House backs bill to pressure China over Uighur rights

The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday backed legislation calling on President Donald Trump’s administration to impose sanctions on those responsible for China’s repression of its Uighur Muslim minority.

As voting continued, the vote was 323 in favor of the measure, with just one member opposed. Since the legislation has already passed the Senate, House approval would send the bill to the White House.

Congressional aides said they expected Trump to sign it into law.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-u...essure-china-over-uighur-rights-idUKKBN23338I

 

[Romali_rotti]

U.S. House backs bill to pressure China over Uighur rights

The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday backed legislation calling on President Donald Trump’s administration to impose sanctions on those responsible for China’s repression of its Uighur Muslim minority.

As voting continued, the vote was 323 in favor of the measure, with just one member opposed. Since the legislation has already passed the Senate, House approval would send the bill to the White House.

Congressional aides said they expected Trump to sign it into law.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-u...essure-china-over-uighur-rights-idUKKBN23338I

Ummah is stronger in the Whitehouse than Pakistan it seems.

 

[pillionrider]

Nearly 2 years old, and still a 1 page thread

 

[Slog]

Nearly 2 years old, and still a 1 page thread

So will a thread about Chechnya, Sudan or Dagestan. Prolly even less.

Also there’s few other threads on the same general topic.

If you really are comparing interest on a Pakistani forum for this topic and Kashmir (internationally disputed land also claimed by Pakistan) then God help you.

 

[pillionrider]

If you really are comparing interest on a Pakistani forum for this topic and Kashmir (internationally disputed land also claimed by Pakistan) then God help you.

Claimed by Pakistan, or looking to give them Azaadi