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Choke: Define in your own Words

WebGuru

WebGuru

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Real Deifintion: In sports, a "choke" is the failure of a player or team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win. Someone who chokes may be known as a "choker".

Now i want you to define this word in your own words because in cricket this word is always tagged with South African team but many other teams have failed while they were favorites to win a match or tournament example is Lanka failure to win the title after reaching so many finals after 1996. This term is not only for a tournament failure it can be tagged to team who failed to win a match in which that team was entered as favorite for example Pakistan v Lanka in 2012 T20 semi final or recent example is Pakistan v WI in CT group match or India v Bangladesh in 2007 WC and there are many other matches so i think it's so unfair that we tag this term only with SA.
 
All teams have choked at various points no doubt about that.

Pakistan too. Since the 2007 World T20, we have made the semis of every single ICC event and have won only one.

SL too lose way too many finals.

NZ have lost their fare share of semi finals too and England bottle in the finals historically.

But the situation with South Africa is different. They always boast the strongest squad and are pretty unbeatable in bilaterals but when it comes to the World Cup and other ICC events, they don't deliver.

England haven't done well in ODIs but they never had a squad capable of winning the World Cup. Same goes for SL.

in 2007, Australia were far better than them and in 2011 India too.

A team as strong as South Africa to have not won a single World Cup and an ICC event since that 1998 Champions Trophy win is the proper definition of choking.
 
HamzaSaeen said:
The definition of choke can be defined by only two teams- SL and SA.
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You can't call it a choke when you are not the favorites. I think it is harsh.

SL out do themselves in ICC events and do New Zealand.

You can say the same about Pakistan.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
All teams have choked at various points no doubt about that.

Pakistan too. Since the 2007 World T20, we have made the semis of every single ICC event and have won only one.

SL too lose way too many finals.

NZ have lost their fare share of semi finals too and England bottle in the finals historically.

But the situation with South Africa is different. They always boast the strongest squad and are pretty unbeatable in bilaterals but when it comes to the World Cup and other ICC events, they don't deliver.

England haven't done well in ODIs but they never had a squad capable of winning the World Cup. Same goes for SL.

in 2007, Australia were far better than them and in 2011 India too.

A team as strong as South Africa to have not won a single World Cup and an ICC event since that 1998 Champions Trophy win is the proper definition of choking.
Click to expand...

But the problem is that this term is not only for tournaments it can be given after a match failure there are hundreds of matches in which teams were failed to perform when they entered as favorites. Even England Test series against Pak when they were number 1 Test Nation and thn got whitewashed how can we define it in that situation?
 
I usually have to face such questions in exams. "Define in your own words"
 
Problem with SA has been, too too much specific planning oriented game. While playing test series or a bilateral or tri-series, you can plan against one or two teams and play the whole series.
But in multi-nations tourney you have 7-8 good teams each with 15 players and you can't plan against diff team everyday.
You need killer instinct for these tourneys. Asian sides hardly have planning oriented game. They rely on individual brilliance.
 
WebGuru said:
But the problem is that this term is not only for tournaments it can be given after a match failure there are hundreds of matches in which teams were failed to perform when they entered as favorites. Even England Test series against Pak when they were number 1 Test Nation and thn got whitewashed how can we define it in that situation?
Click to expand...

They were always gonna struggle in UAE against our spinners. Doesn't mean they choked.

We didn't choke in SA, we just weren't good enough to beat them.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
They were always gonna struggle in UAE against our spinners. Doesn't mean they choked.

We didn't choke in SA, we just weren't good enough to beat them.
Click to expand...

But Eng seems like Choked in ODI series in home conditions after a 2-0 win in Test Series so comfortably.
 
WebGuru said:
Real Deifintion: In sports, a "choke" is the failure of a player or team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win. Someone who chokes may be known as a "choker".

Now i want you to define this word in your own words
Click to expand...

'Choking' is the act of over-analysing a simple problem, thereby falling out of the mental state of unconscious competence athletes call The Zone.
 
IMO, if you lost in a position from where you can't possibly lose, you choked.
 
From a great winning position to terrible losing position without any brilliant performances from opposition. All due to unexplained brain farts and panic.
 
Choking requires a team to go out of the way to lose a match which it was winning comfortably imo. High scoring games don't come under it because teams are required to do fancy things during which they might also lose their way.

While SA vs NZ QF is a perfect example, they started as favourites to win. Even restricted NZ to a meager total but their batting ensured they made it look like a mountain to climb and then lost it.
 
indians dont choke. either we do too well or we are too poor. there isnt a middle ground :D

2007 wc - out in 1st round itself
2011 wc - win the whole wc :D

eng tour in 2011 - lost 4-0
eng toured ind in 2011 - won 5-0 in odis :D

aus tour in 2011 - lost 4-0
aus toured ind in 2013 - won 4-0 :D

2007 t20 wc - won :D
2009, 2010 t20 wc - failed to win any matches in super 6
 
amit said:
indians dont choke. either we do too well or we are too poor. there isnt a middle ground :D
Click to expand...

Well, if you consider individual matches, choking instances are dime a dozen... India vs England 2011 WC for ex.
 
While SA at 50/4 in Semi Final of CT i think it's time to Define this word...
 
WebGuru said:
While SA at 50/4 in Semi Final of CT i think it's time to Define this word...
Click to expand...
In the past SA were favorites and lost from winning positions, that was choke. SA is not the best side ATM, so can't use the word 'choke' to describe what they are going through now. They are just another weak side.

If England lose this match from this position then that is CHOKE.
 
Senman said:
In the past SA were favorites and lost from winning positions, that was choke. SA is not the best side ATM, so can't use the word 'choke' to describe what they are going through now. They are just another weak side.

If England lose this match from this position then that is CHOKE.
Click to expand...

but TBH saffa batting line was still better thn Eng in this semi while England bowling is better...
 
Senman said:
In the past SA were favorites and lost from winning positions, that was choke. SA is not the best side ATM, so can't use the word 'choke' to describe what they are going through now. They are just another weak side.

If England lose this match from this position then that is CHOKE.
Click to expand...
Finally a sensible poster..
 
70-6 still not a choke? when you have AB, Amla, Ingram, Duminy & Plessis in your batting line up?
 
Yup the choke is on ever since FAF walked ahead of AB.....that really gave the signal
 
I take back what I posted earlier, they weren't this bad in earlier stages of this tournament. What a disastrous performance 78/7 in 21 overs.
 
SA players just don't have BMT. They do the tough part quite easily but when it comes to the matches that matter, they play like an associate, everything goes haywire.. the shot selection, the running between wickets.
 
WebGuru said:
70-6 still not a choke? when you have AB, Amla, Ingram, Duminy & Plessis in your batting line up?
Click to expand...

A star studded batting line up that comes apart with amazing consistency in important must win games is definitely a choker team, regardless of whether it is batting first or second.
 
Rather be a side that chokes in the SF, then a side that can't get to the SF i.e. Pakistan, WI, Aus, NZ. :)
 
CHOKE is ON
 

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Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
All teams have choked at various points no doubt about that.

Pakistan too. Since the 2007 World T20, we have made the semis of every single ICC event and have won only one.

SL too lose way too many finals.

NZ have lost their fare share of semi finals too and England bottle in the finals historically.

But the situation with South Africa is different. They always boast the strongest squad and are pretty unbeatable in bilaterals but when it comes to the World Cup and other ICC events, they don't deliver.

England haven't done well in ODIs but they never had a squad capable of winning the World Cup. Same goes for SL.

in 2007, Australia were far better than them and in 2011 India too.

A team as strong as South Africa to have not won a single World Cup and an ICC event since that 1998 Champions Trophy win is the proper definition of choking.
Click to expand...

You seem to be getting confused here. SL losing in many finals and NZ losing in many semis doesn't make them chokers. They didn't start the tournament as pre-tournament favs, so they can't choke - if anything they actually over-achieve.

The classic instance of choking is what RSA did in 1999 WC - started as a pre-tournament fav, did extremely well in most of the games, and then collapsed when they were this close to making the finals. Now that's a choke. Similarly their exit in 2003 WC is a good instance of choking.

Them losing to England in this CT's semi doesn't amount to choking.
 
Wooster said:
You seem to be getting confused here. SL losing in many finals and NZ losing in many semis doesn't make them chokers. They didn't start the tournament as pre-tournament favs, so they can't choke - if anything they actually over-achieve.

The classic instance of choking is what RSA did in 1999 WC - started as a pre-tournament fav, did extremely well in most of the games, and then collapsed when they were this close to making the finals. Now that's a choke. Similarly their exit in 2003 WC is a good instance of choking.

Them losing to England in this CT's semi doesn't amount to choking.
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It Does...
More often than not Teams up the ante and play with Intensity...

Here, Proteas choked completely to 88/8 which shows their fragile mental strength..
 
Losing from a winning position has always been the definition of a choke.

Today was not a choke, it was much worse. It was pathetic and cowardly.
 
It's become fashionable to label SA as chokers every time they get knocked out of a tournament. Most times it's fair. But in this instance, England were the favourites for the match both before the match and throughout it. This isn't a choke.
 
Jo_Don said:
Losing from a winning position has always been the definition of a choke.

Today was not a choke, it was much worse. It was pathetic and cowardly.
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Not to worry Jo Don - you guys still have the 1998 trophy! So what if no one outside Durban, Joburg, Cape Town etc. could care even a smidgen about that trophy, you're still the 1998 champions man!
 
kashmiri_lad said:
It Does...
More often than not Teams up the ante and play with Intensity...

Here, Proteas choked completely to 88/8 which shows their fragile mental strength..
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. They were playing against a strong opposition which is ranked almost on par with them on the ICC rankings. So they were not overwhelming favorites by any means. They had somehow stumbled into the semis, just like England did. So by definition, in today's match neither of the teams could have choked.

This situation is not similar to 1999 or 2003 WC at all.
 
SA will always be an underachieving team.

Never rise up to the occasion in multi-national tournaments. Its a rarity for them.
 
jacques-kallis.jpg
 
Wooster said:
No it doesn't. They were playing against a strong opposition which is ranked almost on par with them on the ICC rankings. So they were not overwhelming favorites by any means. They had somehow stumbled into the semis, just like England did. So by definition, in today's match neither of the teams could have choked.

This situation is not similar to 1999 or 2003 WC at all.
Click to expand...
I don't agree that England are a stronger ODI outfit when compared to Proteas..

Even when we consider that, I don't believe the superiority of England was such, so as to crush the Proteas like this..

For that matter, even the weaker teams give a genuine fight when the stakes are high.
And this is not the first them they have crumbled under pressure...This was similar to the Semis in 2007 WC...

They have a mental problem with the Knock Outs..
Should target a World-t20 Knock Out to get this monkey out of their back...
Unless they do that I don't see any chance for them in the ODI ICC tournament...
 
I think SA are the biggest chokers. Look at their win/loss ratio in ODI's.

England have thrown a few finals. But kind of stumble into those finals. Nobody expects them to win an ODI tournament.
 
How is this even considered a choke? This was a rape, not a choke.
 
How is it choke, losing wickets going for runs in a T20 and still getting to 130 on a difficult pitch?
 
Indiafan said:
How is it choke, losing wickets going for runs in a T20 and still getting to 130 on a difficult pitch?
Click to expand...
In sports, a "choke" is the failure of a player or team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win.
 
Let me see, when you are cruising for a win and the wickets start to fall .... 3 wickets in 6 balls. lol
 
hahaha...few posters have the audacity to call Indian "chokers" just bcoz at one stage they were 65/5....sorry guys u ll hav to wait a bit, its not happening today..
 
Brits, please build your indigenous team now, this Saffers choke team will never win you a cup worth winning.
 
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