Cousin Marriages [Discussion Thread]

[Slog]

I only look at the population of the SC to realise that the risks of marrying within the family are clearly inflated.

If you go to places like Kohat and some other small towns in KPK you would clearly notice a cliff in the natural brain power of the people there. No offence but the people there sometimes are so slow it’s mind boggling. And no it’s not a language issue or culture shock. They genuinely are notches below mentally. I used to have a chokidars like that from there and Swat.

Only later I found out that they had married cousins, their parents were first cousins and the grand parents were also cousins. Do not know how far back it goes.

But eventually you can put two and two

 

[Ronaldo7]

If you go to places like Kohat and some other small towns in KPK you would clearly notice a cliff in the natural brain power of the people there. No offence but the people there sometimes are so slow it’s mind boggling. And no it’s not a language issue or culture shock. They genuinely are notches below mentally. I used to have a chokidars like that from there and Swat.

Only later I found out that they had married cousins, their parents were first cousins and the grand parents were also cousins. Do not know how far back it goes.

But eventually you can put two and two

You could marry your first cousin and not feel the effects but if your offspring marries their first cousin, you've really messed up your family tree.

 

[Mamoon]

If you go to places like Kohat and some other small towns in KPK you would clearly notice a cliff in the natural brain power of the people there. No offence but the people there sometimes are so slow it’s mind boggling. And no it’s not a language issue or culture shock. They genuinely are notches below mentally. I used to have a chokidars like that from there and Swat.

Only later I found out that they had married cousins, their parents were first cousins and the grand parents were also cousins. Do not know how far back it goes.

But eventually you can put two and two

Avoiding the prospects of forging relationships with strangers is one of the biggest perks of marrying in the family. At least it was for me.

It is not just the girl but also her immediate as well as extended family.

Second cousin marriages are almost as risky/safe as marrying an outsider.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Avoiding the prospects of forging relationships with strangers is one of the biggest perks of marrying in the family. At least it was for me.

It is not just the girl but also her immediate as well as extended family.

Second cousin marriages are almost as risky/safe as marrying an outsider.

The risk of having abnormal offspring from marrying your first cousin than marrying your second reduces massively but to be on the safe side you should marry your third/fourth cousin if you really want that family connection

 

[minamino]

I like Indian culture very much where they treat their cousins like siblings and not potential future partners.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I like Indian culture very much where they treat their cousins like siblings and not potential future partners.

They still do it though. There's a lot of incest in India (excluding the muslims).
And they also like to marry their dogs and trees too.

 

[sjahmed23]

I like Indian culture very much where they treat their cousins like siblings and not potential future partners.

That's one thing I can praise the Indians for, rarely hear of them marrying their cousins. Pakistani's on the other hand can't look beyond marrying someone outside their family, even the ones raised in the west go back to Pakistan to marry their cousins like someone put a gun to their head. Forget child development for a second, even the two people marrying each other have development issues because what will motivate them in life if they know they will end up with a cousin anyways? I've seen so many friends who did not go to college or pursue higher studies because their cousin was promised to them at an early age.

 

[Slog]

Avoiding the prospects of forging relationships with strangers is one of the biggest perks of marrying in the family. At least it was for me.

It is not just the girl but also her immediate as well as extended family.

Second cousin marriages are almost as risky/safe as marrying an outsider.

So you mean in arranged marriages scenario cousins are better

I don’t think science supports your last statement but yes the chances are much less and you can never point out an exact reason anyway. Point is why take the minimal risk when there’s 8bn people in the world almost

 

[Darkrai]

So I will have to deal with this soon. Although I have made my intentions clear to my parents, it seems this is what they and possibly some relatives want.

 

[Mamoon]

I like Indian culture very much where they treat their cousins like siblings and not potential future partners.

If you don’t share a mother or a father, then she cannot be your sibling.

If you forcefully want to make your cousin your sister, your uncle your dad, and your aunt your mother, well that is your social convention and you should not be disgusted by people who don’t believe in your weird flex.

When I was in the U.S. I would cringe when an Indian would use the word “cousin sister” to describe his cousin. Well she is either your cousin or your sister. She cannot be both.

Why not call your uncle “uncle dad” as well?

 

[Mamoon]

So you mean in arranged marriages scenario cousins are better

I don’t think science supports your last statement but yes the chances are much less and you can never point out an exact reason anyway. Point is why take the minimal risk when there’s 8bn people in the world almost

Yes.

Second cousin marriages have worked very well in my family so I am very positive that hopefully there won’t be any complications in the future.

 

[Mamoon]

The risk of having abnormal offspring from marrying your first cousin than marrying your second reduces massively but to be on the safe side you should marry your third/fourth cousin if you really want that family connection

Third and fourth cousins are basically not family. I barely even know my third, fourth, fifth, sixth.......nth cousins.

 

[DeadBall]

Yes.

Second cousin marriages have worked very well in my family so I am very positive that hopefully there won’t be any complications in the future.

You forgot to add "fingers crossed". The point is if there is an increased possibility of the child being born with abnormalities, why even take the chance. It is selfish on your part and (God forbid it happens) very unfair to the child.

You as a doctor should probably know better.

 

[Mamoon]

You forgot to add "fingers crossed". The point is if there is an increased possibility of the child being born with abnormalities, why even take the chance. It is selfish on your part and (God forbid it happens) very unfair to the child.

You as a doctor should probably know better.

The chances of abnormalities in second cousin marriages are approx 3.5%.

The chances of recessive inheritance in general is about 2-3%, but we won’t call that selfish. However, increasing the chances by 1.5 or 1% suddenly becomes selfish.

Ultimately, only a gamble of 1 or 1.5% decides whether you are selfless or selfish.

In my opinion, gay couples who adopt children are far more selfish than people who marry their cousins.

There are of course many other examples as well.

 

[Afhan Ali]

Well I don’t. I ask more questions than I answer.

I think true love cannot be romantic. True love is what parents have for their children and vice-versa, or the love you have for your siblings.

Romantic love starts with physical attraction or because of some other attributes. It is not natural.

So then what we call it?

I love her ( she is never going to be my life partner because of society) and I missing her in every sad or happy moments more than anything.

I will never tell her about my feeling but I am feeling that there is no happiness for me without her
So overall no happiness in life either.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] how to get out of depression?

I am in love with her since 2017

 

[imrankhannsu]

I am not a fan of cousin marriages and I would ever opt one for me or my family. Someone who I have been seeing froma young age and treating as a sister would not go down well with me. Things can get even messier with the other social tensions betwwne families. Also there are problems for children.

 

[Pakistanian]

There are so many attractive women in the world who aren't related to you, you're robbing yourself if you marry your cousin. I think the reason why people in Pakistan not only marry their cousin but "date" and develop crushes over relatives is because they don't have much interaction with the opposite gender outside their family so this gender segregation and anti-dating culture has r-tarded Pakistani society.

 

[DeadBall]

The chances of abnormalities in second cousin marriages are approx 3.5%.

The chances of recessive inheritance in general is about 2-3%, but we won’t call that selfish. However, increasing the chances by 1.5 or 1% suddenly becomes selfish.

Ultimately, only a gamble of 1 or 1.5% decides whether you are selfless or selfish.

In my opinion, gay couples who adopt children are far more selfish than people who marry their cousins.

There are of course many other examples as well.

How are gays adopting orphans selfish? They are providing a home to a child/children who otherwise wouldn't have one.

 

[in_cutter]

How are gays adopting orphans selfish? They are providing a home to a child/children who otherwise wouldn't have one.

It’s not just about providing a home...a child needs a mother & father....not a father & father.

 

[Mamoon]

How are gays adopting orphans selfish? They are providing a home to a child/children who otherwise wouldn't have one.

They are being selfish because they are exposing a child to an unnatural environment. Regardless of how tolerant the world becomes, the vast majority of people would be heterosexual in order to preserve the human species.

The normal convention is to grow up in a house with a mother and a father (or a single parent) instead of growing up with two mothers or two fathers. That kid will go to school and see his friends with a mother and father, and he/she will come home and wonder why things are different in his/her household.

What if that kid grows up to be heterosexual and disagrees with his parents orientation or what if he ends up in depression because he gets bullied over it or cannot cope with his parents’ sexuality.

In addition, millions of straight couples want to adopt orphan babies as well. By choosing to adopt a baby, a gay couple is potentially depriving that baby the chance of being picked up a straight couple and grow up in a normal household.

The act of adoption - whether by gay or straight couples - usually involves selfishness as well. It is rare for couples to set random babies. These usually have a preference in terms of skin color and gender. Furthermore, people often prefer babies of certain ethnicities if the information is available.

So a couple who chooses to adopt a light-skinned Pashtun boy is ignoring a dark-skinned Punjabi girl for no fault of her’s. Is this a selfish decision on the part of the couple? Of course, because they are depriving other children a life of comfort because of their selfish choices.

If we examine our actions, you will find that all of us act selfishly more often than not. There is an element of selfishness in pretty much everything we do. In fact, I cannot really think of a truly selfless act.

Hence, I don’t think it is appropriate to condemn cousin marriages because of the perceived selfishness involved.

 

[Mamoon]

So then what we call it?

I love her ( she is never going to be my life partner because of society) and I missing her in every sad or happy moments more than anything.

I will never tell her about my feeling but I am feeling that there is no happiness for me without her
So overall no happiness in life either.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] how to get out of depression?

I am in love with her since 2017

If she cannot be your life partner because of so and so reasons, then you should try to accept your fate. I know it is not something that you want to hear, but it is the only way forward. It is easier said than done, but there is no point in wanting something that was not meant for you.

Some questions have simple answers, and these simple answers are often not what we want to hear. Nevertheless, if you communicate your feelings to her, it might make you feel better.

 

[Slog]

Yes.

Second cousin marriages have worked very well in my family so I am very positive that hopefully there won’t be any complications in the future.

Inshallah there won’t be complications.

But in my experience seeing cousins and friends both cousin (whatever degree) marriages and otherwise have their own challenges. They can often have same complications. Especially in relative marriages everyone wants to be involved in your business and worse knows about it.

At the end of the day the most important thing is the strength of relationship between man and woman in the marriage

 

[minamino]

Out of my family who ever married into cousins have at least one abnormal child and its very common in Pakistan especially Autism.

 

[AdamM97]

I’m so thankful that my parents aren’t related. Celiac disease runs in my mum’s family and a few cousins suffer from that due to their parents being cousins.

Second cousin marriages is acceptable in my opinion though. You share aprox. 3.1% DNA with your 2nd cousins which isn’t a lot.

 

[AdamM97]

Out of my family who ever married into cousins have at least one abnormal child and its very common in Pakistan especially Autism.

India is famous for having a lot of children that are born with birth defects.

Pakistan and India aren’t better or worse than each other in this regard.

 

[dildilpak]

They are being selfish because they are exposing a child to an unnatural environment. Regardless of how tolerant the world becomes, the vast majority of people would be heterosexual in order to preserve the human species.

The normal convention is to grow up in a house with a mother and a father (or a single parent) instead of growing up with two mothers or two fathers. That kid will go to school and see his friends with a mother and father, and he/she will come home and wonder why things are different in his/her household.

What if that kid grows up to be heterosexual and disagrees with his parents orientation or what if he ends up in depression because he gets bullied over it or cannot cope with his parents’ sexuality.

In addition, millions of straight couples want to adopt orphan babies as well. By choosing to adopt a baby, a gay couple is potentially depriving that baby the chance of being picked up a straight couple and grow up in a normal household.

The act of adoption - whether by gay or straight couples - usually involves selfishness as well. It is rare for couples to set random babies. These usually have a preference in terms of skin color and gender. Furthermore, people often prefer babies of certain ethnicities if the information is available.

So a couple who chooses to adopt a light-skinned Pashtun boy is ignoring a dark-skinned Punjabi girl for no fault of her’s. Is this a selfish decision on the part of the couple? Of course, because they are depriving other children a life of comfort because of their selfish choices.

If we examine our actions, you will find that all of us act selfishly more often than not. There is an element of selfishness in pretty much everything we do. In fact, I cannot really think of a truly selfless act.

Hence, I don’t think it is appropriate to condemn cousin marriages because of the perceived selfishness involved.

Can’t believe as a doctor you are saying cousin marriages are ok, when you have tons of scientific evidence saying they do increase the risk of genetic defects. And i do think that any kinda cousin marriage is selfish to the core - you are not thinking about the health of your future generations just to keep it within the family.

 

[msaaim89]

They still do it though. There's a lot of incest in India (excluding the muslims).
And they also like to marry their dogs and trees too.

I've had to Google that and it turns out that there are cases of Indians marrying dogs / animals.

Didn't read too deep into it, but surely it's forced? Can't imagine anyone in right mind would willfully want to be part of this rather peculiar tradition.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] - Is it common or just restricted to areas with with low literacy rates?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Well I don’t. I ask more questions than I answer.

I think true love cannot be romantic. True love is what parents have for their children and vice-versa, or the love you have for your siblings.

Romantic love starts with physical attraction or because of some other attributes. It is not natural.

Tried to explain the exact same thing to a friend the other day, and I was scorned at.

 

[Savak]

Speaking from experience, fondness or another person can grow as well with times. Physical attraction is a good starting point but one has to look for other attributes as well. Most highly attractive girls in my life sadly have let it get to their heads as well.

 

[Savak]

I never ever believed in cousin marriages, but a couple of months ago i actually asked a cousin of mine if she saw me as her future husband, this is a cousin who is very much like a close friend and is very attractive as well.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I never ever believed in cousin marriages, but a couple of months ago i actually asked a cousin of mine if she saw me as her future husband, this is a cousin who is very much like a close friend and is very attractive as well.

I am guessing her answer was a resounding NO!

 

[in_cutter]

I never ever believed in cousin marriages, but a couple of months ago i actually asked a cousin of mine if she saw me as her future husband, this is a cousin who is very much like a close friend and is very attractive as well.

Strange question to ask

 

[JaDed]

I've had to Google that and it turns out that there are cases of Indians marrying dogs / animals.

Didn't read too deep into it, but surely it's forced? Can't imagine anyone in right mind would willfully want to be part of this rather peculiar tradition.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] - Is it common or just restricted to areas with with low literacy rates?

Superstition, and yes I don't know any educated Indian Hindu that has done that or even anyone I know personally but have seen it in movies and tv series.

 

[DeadBall]

They are being selfish because they are exposing a child to an unnatural environment. Regardless of how tolerant the world becomes, the vast majority of people would be heterosexual in order to preserve the human species.

The normal convention is to grow up in a house with a mother and a father (or a single parent) instead of growing up with two mothers or two fathers. That kid will go to school and see his friends with a mother and father, and he/she will come home and wonder why things are different in his/her household.

What if that kid grows up to be heterosexual and disagrees with his parents orientation or what if he ends up in depression because he gets bullied over it or cannot cope with his parents’ sexuality.

In addition, millions of straight couples want to adopt orphan babies as well. By choosing to adopt a baby, a gay couple is potentially depriving that baby the chance of being picked up a straight couple and grow up in a normal household.

The act of adoption - whether by gay or straight couples - usually involves selfishness as well. It is rare for couples to set random babies. These usually have a preference in terms of skin color and gender. Furthermore, people often prefer babies of certain ethnicities if the information is available.

So a couple who chooses to adopt a light-skinned Pashtun boy is ignoring a dark-skinned Punjabi girl for no fault of her’s. Is this a selfish decision on the part of the couple? Of course, because they are depriving other children a life of comfort because of their selfish choices.

If we examine our actions, you will find that all of us act selfishly more often than not. There is an element of selfishness in pretty much everything we do. In fact, I cannot really think of a truly selfless act.

Hence, I don’t think it is appropriate to condemn cousin marriages because of the perceived selfishness involved.

What about single parents? There are a lot of them today. The world isn't so white and black. The child will also come home and wonder why he/she doesn't have a mother/father. You are using a lot of ifs and conjecture about the child being bullied, questioning sexuality and what not. There are a lot of different type of households and just because the parents are gay makes them any less qualified.

Being an orphan is not a normal convention. I have known many orphans as I worked as a volunteer in an orphanage at Bait Al Khair, Dubai and a month or so an year at the Rote Kreuz in Germany and the only thing they want is to have their own personal secure home with a loving family, gay or straight. Here in Germany they are rigorously followed up on and if the child has a problem with having gay parents they are immediately removed from the environment but of the various cases I know of there was just a case or two which is normal in any statistic.

There are millions and millions of orphans, gays aren't depriving straight couples a chance to adopt a baby. There are an estimated 140 million or so orphans currently worldwide.

The act of selfishness is actually greater in straight couples (I know a few couples) as they try their hardest (and some are still trying) to reproduce their own mini versions and only resort to adoption as a last resort if they really want to have kids and even then as you said they have preferences but I don't see how you got this rant into the gay specific question.

So you did all this mental gymnastics and gave obscure reasons with a lot of conjecture just to have your conscience clean for marrying your cousin. Well done.

 

[Mamoon]

Can’t believe as a doctor you are saying cousin marriages are ok, when you have tons of scientific evidence saying they do increase the risk of genetic defects. And i do think that any kinda cousin marriage is selfish to the core - you are not thinking about the health of your future generations just to keep it within the family.

The tons of scientific evidence state that the risks associated with marrying a second cousin are only 1 to 1.5% higher.

There is always a risk of having an abnormal child even if the man and the woman are completely unrelated. So I guess having children itself is a selfish act. You are risking bringing an abnormal person into the world because of your selfish desire to become a parent.

As I said, there are no selfless acts in this world. There is no reason to single out people who marry their cousins.

 

[msaaim89]

Superstition, and yes I don't know any educated Indian Hindu that has done that or even anyone I know personally but have seen it in movies and tv series.

As guessed. One or two people do something and it's usually extrapolated to an entire group.

 

[Mamoon]

What about single parents? There are a lot of them today. The world isn't so white and black. The child will also come home and wonder why he/she doesn't have a mother/father. You are using a lot of ifs and conjecture about the child being bullied, questioning sexuality and what not. There are a lot of different type of households and just because the parents are gay makes them any less qualified.

A single parent is not against social convention. You cannot compare it to gay couples. There are thousands of single parents in every society but the number of gay couples will always be very low. The chances of getting bullied because of having gay parents is greater than the chances of getting bullied because of having single parents.

Homophobia is a real thing. It exists in our society. However, I don’t think single-parent-o-phobia exists.

Being an orphan is not a normal convention. I have known many orphans as I worked as a volunteer in an orphanage at Bait Al Khair, Dubai and a month or so an year at the Rote Kreuz in Germany and the only thing they want is to have their own personal secure home with a loving family, gay or straight. Here in Germany they are rigorously followed up on and if the child has a problem with having gay parents they are immediately removed from the environment but of the various cases I know of there was just a case or two which is normal in any statistic.

How practical is it to remove a child from a gay couple? How old is the child when he or she realized that he or she does not want to live with gay parents? What happens to that child? Does he go back to the orphan house or is he passed around from family to family like a commodity?

What if this child was picked up by a straight couple and he/she would have lived a happy, content life?

There are millions and millions of orphans, gays aren't depriving straight couples a chance to adopt a baby. There are an estimated 140 million or so orphans currently worldwide.

The number of straight couples looking to adopt a child is significantly higher than the number of gay couples looking to adopt one, simply because heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals - a convention that will never change.

So that means gay couples are depriving a child the opportunity of being picked up by a straight couple because of their selfishness.

The act of selfishness is actually greater in straight couples (I know a few couples) as they try their hardest (and some are still trying) to reproduce their own mini versions and only resort to adoption as a last resort if they really want to have kids and even then as you said they have preferences but I don't see how you got this rant into the gay specific question.

What is wrong with that? Of course straight couples are going to try to have their own kids. However, they are still giving the adopted children a conventional upbringing instead of forcing their gay beliefs on a child. People who defend gay adoption would never have chosen two fathers or two mothers for themselves.

Gay adoption is only selfless if that particular child has absolutely no chance of getting picked up by a straight couple.

So you did all this mental gymnastics and gave obscure reasons with a lot of conjecture just to have your conscience clean for marrying your cousin. Well done.

My conscience is clear and I do not have to rationalize my decision to other people over the Internet. People can judge me all they want, but I have to say that you have made a very mediocre effort to justify why second cousin marriage is more selfish than gay adoption.

 

[DeadBall]

My conscience is clear and I do not have to rationalize my decision to other people over the Internet. People can judge me all they want, but I have to say that you have made a very mediocre effort to justify why second cousin marriage is more selfish than gay adoption.

I didn't say anything about gay adoption being more or less selfish than cousin marriages to start with, you brought them into the discussion.

Oh, well. Anyway, when's the big day, I thought you said around 10 days about a week or so ago.

 

[Savak]

I am guessing her answer was a resounding NO!

Lol, not a resounding no, but a polite no and she responded by sending me a 4 paragraph email. But we are still pretty close friends and i didn't take it personally either as one shouldn't as a mature person. A lot of my family members and friends are complimenting me on my 19 year old wife as it is and even more importantly i found someone with the perfect combination of almost everything i desired i.e. looks, personality, educated, pathan, well raised traditionally, excellent cook, excellent in domestic tasks, academically and professionally ambitious. Only thing that remains to be seen is whether she adopts western wear when she moves to Canada next year

 

[Savak]

Strange question to ask

Well, i would never have asked her if we were not that close and if i didn't find her attractive. This was the only time in my life where i momentarily compromised on my no cousin marriages belief.

 

[Pakpak]

I never ever believed in cousin marriages, but a couple of months ago i actually asked a cousin of mine if she saw me as her future husband, this is a cousin who is very much like a close friend and is very attractive as well.

Weren't you recently married.....so you asked this question to her while going through deep during a rishta with your current spouse?

 

[minamino]

Superstition, and yes I don't know any educated Indian Hindu that has done that or even anyone I know personally but have seen it in movies and tv series.

Cousin marriages in Pakistan are promoted through the industry as well and a lot of educated people are married into their cousins

 

[minamino]

Lol, not a resounding no, but a polite no and she responded by sending me a 4 paragraph email. But we are still pretty close friends and i didn't take it personally either as one shouldn't as a mature person. A lot of my family members and friends are complimenting me on my 19 year old wife as it is and even more importantly i found someone with the perfect combination of almost everything i desired i.e. looks, personality, educated, pathan, well raised traditionally, excellent cook, excellent in domestic tasks, academically and professionally ambitious. Only thing that remains to be seen is whether she adopts western wear when she moves to Canada next year

Sorry but how old are you? and how a 19-year-old girl could be educated? That's like A level age and if a girl is ambitious professionally why would she get married at the tender age of 19. Nothing personal but you could have done better than mentioning it.

 

[Savak]

Weren't you recently married.....so you asked this question to her while going through deep during a rishta with your current spouse?

I asked my cousin in Sept and she gave me her final response in 2 days, my rishta with my wife got finalized in December

 

[Savak]

Sorry but how old are you? and how a 19-year-old girl could be educated? That's like A level age and if a girl is ambitious professionally why would she get married at the tender age of 19. Nothing personal but you could have done better than mentioning it.

She is actually much more educated than her parents and speaks, writes better English than them. Girls do get married early and have faith in their husbands, in-laws supporting their academic and professional ambitions going forward

 

[minamino]

She is actually much more educated than her parents and speaks, writes better English than them. Girls do get married early and have faith in their husbands, in-laws supporting their academic and professional ambitions going forward

She at 19 is much more 'educated' than her parents and I don't think writing English is that difficult in a country like Pakistan where most of the education is in English and I have never seen a successful woman getting married at the age of 19 and if they did, one of those things had to give up.

 

[Savak]

She at 19 is much more 'educated' than her parents and I don't think writing English is that difficult in a country like Pakistan where most of the education is in English and I have never seen a successful woman getting married at the age of 19 and if they did, one of those things had to give up.

My mom got married at 20. She still raised 3 kids, studied to become a doctor and rose to the top of her field.

 

[pillionrider]

I've had to Google that and it turns out that there are cases of Indians marrying dogs / animals.

Didn't read too deep into it, but surely it's forced? Can't imagine anyone in right mind would willfully want to be part of this rather peculiar tradition.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] - Is it common or just restricted to areas with with low literacy rates?

I hope you didn't think that the couple live together after the rituals )

Usually it's to combat some astrological flaw as far as I know. Even the greatest portrayer of atheists in cinema, Shri Amitabh Bachchan had Aishwarya Rai marry a tree or something before marrying his son.

 

[Pakpak]

I asked my cousin in Sept and she gave me her final response in 2 days, my rishta with my wife got finalized in December

You just said you asked your cousin a couple of months ago hence the confusion.
' but a couple of months ago i actually asked a cousin of mine if she saw me as her future husband, this is a cousin who is very much like a close friend and is very attractive as well.'

A couple of months is literally weeks before your rishta got finalised but anyway.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Lol, not a resounding no, but a polite no and she responded by sending me a 4 paragraph email. But we are still pretty close friends and i didn't take it personally either as one shouldn't as a mature person. A lot of my family members and friends are complimenting me on my 19 year old wife as it is and even more importantly i found someone with the perfect combination of almost everything i desired i.e. looks, personality, educated, pathan, well raised traditionally, excellent cook, excellent in domestic tasks, academically and professionally ambitious. Only thing that remains to be seen is whether she adopts western wear when she moves to Canada next year

Wow. Congratulations!
Good luck with this new chapter in your life. Happy wishes and may Allah bless both of you

PS: All these people saying you are too old etc. just ignore them. I know so many successful married people where husband is almost always older than the wife. My own parents are an example!

 

[kaayal]

If you don’t share a mother or a father, then she cannot be your sibling.

If you forcefully want to make your cousin your sister, your uncle your dad, and your aunt your mother, well that is your social convention and you should not be disgusted by people who don’t believe in your weird flex.

When I was in the U.S. I would cringe when an Indian would use the word “cousin sister” to describe his cousin. Well she is either your cousin or your sister. She cannot be both.

Why not call your uncle “uncle dad” as well?

Lol the irony.

Between many Hindus in my state do call their uncles cheriyacchan, valyaacchan which literally means smaller dad and bigger dad etc. Tbh, there is nothing wrong in it unless you want to think that in a wrong way.

 

[in_cutter]

Can’t believe as a doctor you are saying cousin marriages are ok, when you have tons of scientific evidence saying they do increase the risk of genetic defects. And i do think that any kinda cousin marriage is selfish to the core - you are not thinking about the health of your future generations just to keep it within the family.

Mamoon is right. The statistics are not bad ad people make them out to be. I also know cousins that have married and their kids are perfectly normal.

 

[Slog]

Mamoon is right. The statistics are not bad ad people make them out to be. I also know cousins that have married and their kids are perfectly normal.

You do know that it’s not guarantee that it will be an abnormal kid. Most likely won’t be.

The point is why take the risk when you know chances are higher statistically?

Also in our culture we think there’s a problem only when kid is either physically challenged or clearly mentally ********. However there’s also many other kind of abnormalities which you do not hear about as much and are not apparent.

 

[andy0204]

Fortunately all of my cousins are elder than me.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Fortunately all of my cousins are elder than me.

Fortunate for them or for you?

 

[andy0204]

Fortunate for them or for you?

For both.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Anyone interested in knowing more on this topic from the scientific standpoint should read Dawkin's masterpiece "The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution".

Everyone is someone's cousin if you go up in your family tree.

 

[Ronaldo7]

You do know that it’s not guarantee that it will be an abnormal kid. Most likely won’t be.

The point is why take the risk when you know chances are higher statistically?

Also in our culture we think there’s a problem only when kid is either physically challenged or clearly mentally ********. However there’s also many other kind of abnormalities which you do not hear about as much and are not apparent.

Even statistically it's not much higher.
It's only if you marry your first cousin.

Marrying your second or third cousin isn't risky at all as the risk of your offspring having problems is the same as if you were marrying a stranger.

Read this for some clarity:
https://11points.com/marry-third-cousin/

 

[CricketCartoons]

Even statistically it's not much higher.
It's only if you marry your first cousin.

Marrying your second or third cousin isn't risky at all as the risk of your offspring having problems is the same as if you were marrying a stranger.

Read this for some clarity:
https://11points.com/marry-third-cousin/

You mention second or third cousin, but the article says it is safe from third cousins. Doesn't say anywhere that second cousin marriage is safe.

 

[Ronaldo7]

You mention second or third cousin, but the article says it is safe from third cousins. Doesn't say anywhere that second cousin marriage is safe.

https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/risk-second-cousins-having-child-disability

2-3% compared to 3.5%.
Barely any difference

 

[Ronaldo7]

https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/risk-second-cousins-having-child-disability

2-3% compared to 3.5%.
Barely any difference

Further evidence:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAUegQIDxAL&usg=AOvVaw0kNI73oQTODFkrYUTFnUjb

"What's more, the genetic risk associated with second cousins having children is almost as small as it would be between two unrelated individuals.Marriage between first cousins, however, is legal in only about half of American states."

 

[CricketCartoons]

https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/risk-second-cousins-having-child-disability

2-3% compared to 3.5%.
Barely any difference

The risk increases by 17% to 75%. Not insignificant.

 

[Ronaldo7]

The risk increases by 17% to 75%. Not insignificant.

What are you on about?

Can you not read?

"Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk."

 

[CricketCartoons]

What are you on about?

Can you not read?

"Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk."

Can you not do arithmetic? I used the numbers you shared to show the risk increases by 17% to 75% when you go for second cousin.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Can you not do arithmetic? I used the numbers you shared to show the risk increases by 17% to 75% when you go for second cousin.

I've given you the proof.

If you don't want to accept then that's you just being ignorant.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Further evidence:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAUegQIDxAL&usg=AOvVaw0kNI73oQTODFkrYUTFnUjb

"What's more, the genetic risk associated with second cousins having children is almost as small as it would be between two unrelated individuals.Marriage between first cousins, however, is legal in only about half of American states."

What are you on about?

Can you not read?

"Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk."

Can you not do arithmetic? I used the numbers you shared to show the risk increases by 17% to 75% when you go for second cousin.

Read it PROPERLY and try to comprehend it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I've given you the proof.

If you don't want to accept then that's you just being ignorant.

I am not disputing your proof at all. Should I also give a proof of how the risk increases by 17% to 75%? I thought it would be obvious, but let me try.

Normal case: 2-3% risk.
Second cousin case: 3.5% risk.
The lowest increase is when it goes from 3% to 3.5%.
The highest increase is when it goes from 2% to 3.5%.
The range for the above two statements is a risk increase of 16.67% to 75%.

That is not an insignificant increase at all.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I am not disputing your proof at all. Should I also give a proof of how the risk increases by 17% to 75%? I thought it would be obvious, but let me try.

Normal case: 2-3% risk.
Second cousin case: 3.5% risk.
The lowest increase is when it goes from 3% to 3.5%.
The highest increase is when it goes from 2% to 3.5%.
The range for the above two statements is a risk increase of 16.67% to 75%.

That is not an insignificant increase at all.

What's more, the genetic risk associated with second cousins having children is almost as small as it would be between two unrelated individuals.Marriage between first cousins, however, is legal in only about half of American states."

Key phrase:
"Almost as small"

"Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk."

Key phrase:
"only a little"

It hardly even matters if you marry your second cousin or a stranger because the risk barely increases as stated by the two articles.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What's more, the genetic risk associated with second cousins having children is almost as small as it would be between two unrelated individuals.Marriage between first cousins, however, is legal in only about half of American states."

Key phrase:
"Almost as small"

"Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk."

Key phrase:
"only a little"

It hardly even matters if you marry your second cousin or a stranger because the risk barely increases as stated by the two articles.

Risk increases by 16.67% to 75% when you go for second cousin. This is cold hard objective fact.

What you are giving is subjective opinion (only a little, almost as small).

Tell me if you can dispute the objective numbers.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Risk increases by 16.67% to 75% when you go for second cousin. This is cold hard objective fact.

What you are giving is subjective opinion (only a little, almost as small).

Tell me if you can dispute the objective numbers.

16% increase isn't barely anything. That doesn't even equate to a child per 100 births.

Also, 2-3% isn't even a definitive figure. It can be a lot higher or a lot lower for all we know. The figure for the second cousin marriages is usually a lot more consistent.

I'm sure the two people who've written the articles know more than you.

What are you even trying to argue here?

Second cousin marriages obviously have a higher risk but barely any higher than if you marry a stranger.

What part of that do you not get?

 

[CricketCartoons]

16% increase isn't barely anything. That doesn't even equate to a child per 100 births.

Also, 2-3% isn't even a definitive figure. It can be a lot higher or a lot lower for all we know. The figure for the second cousin marriages is usually a lot more consistent.

I'm sure the two people who've written the articles know more than you.

What are you even trying to argue here?

Second cousin marriages obviously have a higher risk but barely any higher than if you marry a stranger.

What part of that do you not get?

So you don't dispute that there is a risk increase of 16.67% to 75%. Good.

You only think that this is not a huge risk increase. Obviously you have a high tolerance margin for risk taking.

For me, even 1 in a 1000 change is a risk too high. Maybe for you a 1 out of 1000 chance of plane crash is not risky. That is fine with me.

 

[Slog]

https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/risk-second-cousins-having-child-disability

2-3% compared to 3.5%.
Barely any difference

So you lied when you said the article states there is no difference

 

[Ronaldo7]

So you lied when you said the article states there is no difference

When did I say there was no difference?
I said that there is barely any difference and is the same as if you were marrying a stranger.

Are we really going to argue over whether 3% is really that much bigger of a risk than 3.5%?

 

[CricketCartoons]

When did I say there was no difference?
I said that there is barely any difference and is the same as if you were marrying a stranger.

Are we really going to argue over whether 3% is really that much bigger of a risk than 3.5%?

In which world is 3% bigger than 3.5%? No wonder.

 

[Ronaldo7]

In which world is 3% bigger than 3.5%? No wonder.

Ever heard of something called Mistakes?
No wonder.

 

[dildilpak]

Mamoon is right. The statistics are not bad ad people make them out to be. I also know cousins that have married and their kids are perfectly normal.

I know cousins too who have married & have normal children, but honestly why take the added risk? Since i have a de-novo Down syndrome in my family, my wife & i got a full genetic panel analysis (for around 225 genetic diseases) done - and guess what, turned out i was a carrier for Tay-Sachs & my wife was a carrier for another neurogenetic disease (forget the name now) - one can only imagine the added risks to our kids if my wife was related to me! Our genetic counselor at that time too told us that this outcome is common- almost everybody has an inherited genetic issue. So unless you are undergoing a genetic testing before marrying your cousin or believe in taking unwarranted risks, its simply better to marry an outsider.

Besides, isn’t it icky to marry a close relative anyway?

 

[Ronaldo7]

I know cousins too who have married & have normal children, but honestly why take the added risk? Since i have a de-novo Down syndrome in my family, my wife & i got a full genetic panel analysis (for around 225 genetic diseases) done - and guess what, turned out i was a carrier for Tay-Sachs & my wife was a carrier for another neurogenetic disease (forget the name now) - one can only imagine the added risks to our kids if my wife was related to me! Our genetic counselor at that time too told us that this outcome is common- almost everybody has an inherited genetic issue. So unless you are undergoing a genetic testing before marrying your cousin or believe in taking unwarranted risks, its simply better to marry an outsider.

Besides, isn’t it icky to marry a close relative anyway?

Firstly, I think he was talking about his second/third cousin. A second cousin isn't even a close relative. A third cousin is even further away you're hardly even related. Most people don't even know who their third cousin is.

Secondly, people take the "added risk" because the relationship is likely to turn out better.

Also shown by this article:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/2271-kissing-cousins-kids.html

 

[in_cutter]

I know cousins too who have married & have normal children, but honestly why take the added risk? Since i have a de-novo Down syndrome in my family, my wife & i got a full genetic panel analysis (for around 225 genetic diseases) done - and guess what, turned out i was a carrier for Tay-Sachs & my wife was a carrier for another neurogenetic disease (forget the name now) - one can only imagine the added risks to our kids if my wife was related to me! Our genetic counselor at that time too told us that this outcome is common- almost everybody has an inherited genetic issue. So unless you are undergoing a genetic testing before marrying your cousin or believe in taking unwarranted risks, its simply better to marry an outsider.

Besides, isn’t it icky to marry a close relative anyway?

It’s not just bad genes that are the problem. If two of the same good genes are mixed (husband & wife)..then there will be problems...like in our case.

 

[dildilpak]

Firstly, I think he was talking about his second/third cousin. A second cousin isn't even a close relative. A third cousin is even further away you're hardly even related. Most people don't even know who their third cousin is.

Secondly, people take the "added risk" because the relationship is likely to turn out better.

Also shown by this article:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/2271-kissing-cousins-kids.html

A relationship will turn out better if you marry within your own gene-pool? Now who told you that? Any evidence to back up that fact?

Infact i can think of lots of family complications if the in-laws are related - family interference for one, a gossip heaven for another. Having In-laws is bad enough, having one in the family - No, thanks!!!

 

[dildilpak]

It’s not just bad genes that are the problem. If two of the same good genes are mixed (husband & wife)..then there will be problems...like in our case.

Could be - you never know how multiple copies of the same good genes can affect the kids - and thats why its better to have a diverse gene pool.

I am sorry to hear about your family circumstances (won’t ever call them issues - because kids are truly a blessing)