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Cousin Marriages [Discussion Thread]

Mamoon_ said:
I don't think its a sin to pinpoint someone for future marriage :afridi
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lol@ Pinpoint. Yeah you can choose anyone as your spouse in Islam (other than your immediate blood relationships?)
 
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Anfield said:
I have seen cousins marriages where the girls had been calling her husband bhai (brother) all her life. So weird!
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This thread is full of gems like this :)))

I shouldn't be laughing but I can't help it! As the saying goes, cousins make dozens!

In the Indian (Muslim and Hindu) community here, this issue of marriage to cousins does still happen but very rarely. It's a very old fashioned practise that occurred a very long time ago with previous generations. There are various reasons given regarding why they practised it, ranging from keeping the wealth in the family to being strict about who was trusted to become a part of the family. The last few generations however have become well educated and no longer subscribe to this nonsense.
 
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Jo_Don said:
This thread is full of gems like this :)))

I shouldn't be laughing but I can't help it! As the saying goes, cousins make dozens!

In the Indian (Muslim and Hindu) community here, this issue of marriage to cousins does still happen but very rarely. It's a very old fashioned practise that occurred a very long time ago with previous generations. There are various reasons given regarding why they practised it, ranging from keeping the wealth in the family to being strict about who was trusted to become a party of the family. The last few generations however have become well educated and no longer subscribe to this nonsense.
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yeah it's not prevalent amongst oversea Pakistanis so much. Not saying doesn't happen but not much.
 
Jo_Don said:
This thread is full of gems like this :)))

I shouldn't be laughing but I can't help it! As the saying goes, cousins make dozens!

In the Indian (Muslim and Hindu) community here, this issue of marriage to cousins does still happen but very rarely. It's a very old fashioned practise that occurred a very long time ago with previous generations. There are various reasons given regarding why they practised it, ranging from keeping the wealth in the family to being strict about who was trusted to become a part of the family. The last few generations however have become well educated and no longer subscribe to this nonsense.
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How is cousin marriage (second cousin I mean) nonsense?

First cousin marriage is dodgy medically. nothing wrong with second cousin marriages.
 
It's confirmation bias that India doesn't have a problem with cousin marriage because their society is so fragmented yet people think of themselves as generality.
 
mithun_minhas said:
It still happens in South India especially Andhra Pradesh.
My Telugu friend recently married his cousin (Maternal Uncle's daughter).

For people who understand Telugu, there are songs which romanticize the love between a boy and his cousin. Even today, Telugu movie industry still makes movies glorifying this cousin marriage concept. I find it absolutely disgusting.
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globalcolorsmall1.jpg


This map is correct then about South India.
 
Marrying a stranger seems a difficult thing to do. Its not about the girl only but her parents, whole family.

I have a gigantic crush on my second cousin :afridi If I end up marrying her, well it will be so much easy for me and for her to adjust. We have the same family and we are familiar and comfortable with each other's parents.

I have a mega crush on my best friend's sister as well :akhtar

If I marry her, it will be relatively easy to adjust as well. our Mum's are very good friends, I know her Dad and a bit about her family as well. Also, her brother is my best friend since childhood.

If both reject me, I'll be in a spot of bother.

I hope I operate smoothly and convince one of them and their parents. :raja

My parents won't object either I'm sure.
 
kinventor said:
Second cousin or first cousin same thing basically.
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No, mutation possibility is very low in second cousin marriages compared to first cousin ones.

Anyhow, mutation is possibility in any case.
 
Mamoon_ said:
How is cousin marriage (second cousin I mean) nonsense?

First cousin marriage is dodgy medically. nothing wrong with second cousin marriages.
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To me it is nonsense, since family is family. The second cousin thing seems to be a scapegoat used by those who would otherwise marry their first cousins if it wasn't for the genetic problems that would be introduced. But that's just my opinion :)
 
Jo_Don said:
To me it is nonsense, since family is family. The second cousin thing seems to be a scapegoat used by those who would otherwise marry their first cousins if it wasn't for the genetic problems that would be introduced. But that's just my opinion :)
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Okay, your opinion :)
 
Jo_Don said:
To me it is nonsense, since family is family. The second cousin thing seems to be a scapegoat used by those who would otherwise marry their first cousins if it wasn't for the genetic problems that would be introduced. But that's just my opinion :)
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Everyone has their fancies. And each family is different. If gay marriage is legal, there is nothing wrong with cousin marriage or brothers and sisters marrying. The only issue is about having kids.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

Some will consider first cousins siblings, others meet them once each 10 year and don't.
 
Mamoon_ said:
No, mutation possibility is very low in second cousin marriages compared to first cousin ones.

Anyhow, mutation is possibility in any case.
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There are many inherited diseases which carry over. There is another misconception that if child is not born disabled that mean every thing is all right.
 
kinventor said:
There are many inherited diseases which carry over. There is another misconception that if child is not born disabled that mean every thing is all right.
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I know that, of course.

But, the possibility of mutation in first cousin marriages is very high compared to second cousin marriages. Therefore, its not the same thing.

Inherited diseases is a different issue altogether.
 
endymion248 said:
Everyone has their fancies. And each family is different. If gay marriage is legal, there is nothing wrong with cousin marriage or brothers and sisters marrying. The only issue is about having kids.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

Some will consider first cousins siblings, others meet them once each 10 year and don't.
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Sure, don't mistake me thinking that it's nonsense with being against it. Whatever makes people happy, it's their lives.

I find the entire concept of marriage baffling, but that's a discussion for another day :)
 
too much of anything is bad for you. Praying for 24 hours a day will give you arthritis in your knees. People marrying their first cousin, then their kids do the same, then their kids do the same, then they do the same,,,,which is the case for many Pakistani families, you will get disabilities.
 
Disagree with this. Theres the aspect to do with genes/alleles etc but theres also the family politics. When you have a problem with your cousin whos ya husband/wife and u end up with a divorce, then all of a sudden, your naraaz with half of your generation. I am only saying this because some people i have witnessed have stopped talking due to divorcing of cousins. Also, new people expands your family tree and amount if cousins.
That said, i completely respect anyone who wants to marry anyone later than a 2nd cousin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It is totally disallowed in our family, Even my grandparents were from totally unrelated families.
Question of cousin marriage does not arise for me.
 
Is first cousin marriage legal in the UK? I know its illegal in the majority of the US states.
 
In which states it's illegal? Many of my cousins had first coursin marriages.
 
Boy am I glad it's illegal in the US.

I would never, under any circumstances, marry a cousin. Even my best friend would be more preferable.
 
96NotOut said:
Boy am I glad it's illegal in the US.

I would never, under any circumstances, marry a cousin. Even my best friend would be more preferable.
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I shall not agree with you on this matter. Its far more comfortable to marry a cousin or a best friend, rather than a stranger. You know the personality, habits and attitude.
 
Mamoon said:
I shall not agree with you on this matter. Its far more comfortable to marry a cousin or a best friend, rather than a stranger. You know the personality, habits and attitude.
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Marrying a cousin is gross.

As for a best friend, even family, if you guys say, I agree, it is more comfortable, but it's not something I'd like. Spending my entire life with my best friend is going to be way tougher than a few hours each day. And it may just be me, but I find it far easier to get my way with strangers or people I don't know really well because I don't have a problem getting angry at those people.

Marrying a stranger is scary. I guess it's best to remain unmarried.
 
Just my opinion.

Don't count your chickens before they've hatched, bro. Good luck with her, though.

P. S. Can we have your drop dead gorgeous cousin's Twitter too? :P I'm a girl so you have nothing to fear from me, at least.
 
If PP had a private message facility, I would have forwarded you the link of her Twitter profile. :uakmal
 
Wise move, I would have probably tweeted her and told her about Mamoon :))
 
96NotOut said:
Boy am I glad it's illegal in the US.

I would never, under any circumstances, marry a cousin. Even my best friend would be more preferable.
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Cousin marriage is common among many Jewish Americans. Its not illegal in the entire U.S. There some states that have separate laws that may allow it on certain conditions, in other states its not allowed and in rest of the states it's allowed - California and many east coast states.
 
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FreeBird said:
Cousin marriage is common among many Jewish Americans. Its not illegal in the entire U.S. There some states that have separate laws that may allow it on certain conditions, in other states its not allowed and in rest of the states it's allowed - California and many east coast states.
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Yeah, but it's illegal in a lot of places.

Good enough for me. :D
 
Technically, pardon me, but don't you think, there is a curse word attached to it,which is very common in both India and Pakistan,do you want to be called that.
 
You can have tests before marriages which indicate whether children will be disabled or not; so I don't see why cousin marriages should be a concern. We live in a society were people are fine with gay marriages but not cousin marriages lol.

Any guy would marry a cousin who looked like Katrina Kaif, let's not even deny this. But sadly no all cousins look like Katrina, most are Zenubs and Parveens.
 
You can have tests before marriages which indicate whether children will be disabled or not; so I don't see why cousin marriages should be a concern. We live in a society were people are fine with gay marriages but not cousin marriages lol.

Any guy would marry a cousin who looked like Katrina Kaif, let's not even deny this. But sadly no all cousins look like Katrina, most are Zenubs and Parveens.
 
To be fair, if there are issues with cousin marriages then they should be looked at. To look at most British Pakistanis look in fine health but perhaps there is some underlying data which is not evident on the surface. My only issue with this is Baroness Flather is an Indian married to an English invalid and I do wonder whether this being published in the Daily Mail is just more right wing P A K I bashing.
 
Theo_14 said:
You can have tests before marriages which indicate whether children will be disabled or not; so I don't see why cousin marriages should be a concern. We live in a society were people are fine with gay marriages but not cousin marriages lol.

Any guy would marry a cousin who looked like Katrina Kaif, let's not even deny this. But sadly no all cousins look like Katrina, most are Zenubs and Parveens.
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Its not about gay marriages or cousin marriages. Its about whether it leads to a genetic condition whereby the children have a greater chance of being born with a physical abnormality.

This should have nothing to do with Islam or Pakistanis, but unfortunately its being made this way because a significant number of these marriages tend to happen in the Pakistani community. Cousin marriage in any community should be looked at (and made illegal). It is currently legal in the UK to marry a second cousin.

On the other hand, gay marriages technically do not lead to potentially physically challenged children, though one could prove that being brought up by gay parents could affect one psychologically (I am not arguing against gay people having kids; just an argument that could be used by those who oppose it. In my opinion, as long as a kid is brought up by a loving family, the sexual orientation of the parents doesn't matter). But, currently there is nothing to prove that these kids, who have been brought up in a gay family, are affected mentally. On the contrary there is scientific evidence to prove the high rate of physical abnormality amongst kids born to cousins.
 
One question.

If coursin marriages were practiced in some communities for centuries or millenias, then shouldn't a vast majority of the people in that community be retarded NOW?

But they are not.

What's the explanation for that?

I get the genetic problems argument and I am not in favour of cousin marriages but I have had this doubt for a while.
 
If I mention this to certain peeps, the risks associated with marrying your cousin they will respond with "I don't believe that, I believe everything is up to God" Which is true if you are a man/woman of God but "God also helps those who help themselves" so it's important for people not aware about the risks to educate themselves.
 
shaz619 said:
If I mention this to certain peeps, the risks associated with marrying your cousin they will respond with "I don't believe that, I believe everything is up to God" Which is true if you are a man/woman of God but "God also helps those who help themselves" so it's important for people not aware about the risks to educate themselves.
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How can you be so logical in one thread and an ass in another?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
One question.

If coursin marriages were practiced in some communities for centuries or millenias, then shouldn't a vast majority of the people in that community be retarded NOW?

But they are not.

What's the explanation for that?

I get the genetic problems argument and I am not in favour of cousin marriages but I have had this doubt for a while.
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Maybe the communities that practiced cousin marriages for centuries but had a lot of diseases died off? Similarly, in the communities that did survive, the children born with the dominant genetic diseases died off and only the strong survived leaving those communities with better genes for it? Or maybe they didn't actually practice cousin marriages for centuries and only started recently due to neo-Islamization.
 
endymion248 said:
Maybe the communities that practiced cousin marriages for centuries but had a lot of diseases died off? Similarly, in the communities that did survive, the children born with the dominant genetic diseases died off and only the strong survived leaving those communities with better genes for it? Or maybe they didn't actually practice cousin marriages for centuries and only started recently due to neo-Islamization.
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Interesting.

But if cousin marriages happened in such a large scale, there must be some data for these massive deaths or generations with massive disabilities.

Even 70 years back, SC was very backward.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Interesting.

But if cousin marriages happened in such a large scale, there must be some data for these massive deaths or generations with massive disabilities.

Even 70 years back, SC was very backward.
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It's not as straight forward as that, sometimes a disability can be an advantage in a given environment and it only survives through inbreeding. So, inbreeding wouldn't change the death rates in those instances.

Not only that but we can only have retrospective data since people at the time didn't know that inbreeding was causing the deaths/disabilities.
Also, it would have happened progressively over centuries so, for people of the time, it would have been normal fact of life to have 1/5 child disabled or whatever.

I personally think that cousin marriage is a lot more a modern phenomenon than a traditional one, at least in Pakistan.
 
endymion248 said:
It's not as straight forward as that, sometimes a disability can be an advantage in a given environment and it only survives through inbreeding. So, inbreeding wouldn't change the death rates in those instances.

Not only that but we can only have retrospective data since people at the time didn't know that inbreeding was causing the deaths/disabilities. Also, it would have happened progressively over centuries so, for people of the time, it would have been normal fact of life to have 1/5 child disabled or whatever.

I personally think that cousin marriage is a lot more a modern phenomenon than a traditional one, at least in Pakistan.
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Yeah the 1 in 5 case is possible.

But if cousin marriages were very prevalent, then constant inbreeding would have messed up the subsequent DNAs so much that 1 in 5 should have got to 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 and surely that would be noticeable right?

Even now in South India, some marry cousins (dunno about %).

This inbreeding has an exponential effects component attached to it based on what I hear about DNAs which makes me wonder.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yeah the 1 in 5 case is possible.

But if cousin marriages were very prevalent, then constant inbreeding would have messed up the subsequent DNAs so much that 1 in 5 should have got to 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 and surely that would be noticeable right?

Even now in South India, some marry cousins (dunno about %).

This inbreeding has an exponential effects component attached to it based on what I hear about DNAs which makes me wonder.
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Which shows that it was probably not as prevalent today. Every family would have cousin marriage but they would also have other marriages which means that, even if you are going from 1/5 to 1/4, the deterioration will happen over several centuries, not over a few generations.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
One question.

If coursin marriages were practiced in some communities for centuries or millenias, then shouldn't a vast majority of the people in that community be retarded NOW?

But they are not.

What's the explanation for that?

I get the genetic problems argument and I am not in favour of cousin marriages but I have had this doubt for a while.
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We had a large influx of Ugandan Pakistanis back in the day and they tended to be very stuck up and proud and married within themselves probably more than other communities. Interestingly they tended to be quite athletic and well educated and they have produced kids with similar traits. So my impression has always been if you marry into a family with retarded genes then there is a greater chance of passing on those genes. If you have two healthy parents without a history of disability then why would you suddenly start producing disabled progeny?
 
Even if there were no medical issues hypothetically, I still find the idea of marrying my 1st cousin highly disturbing!
 
Theo_14 said:
You can have tests before marriages which indicate whether children will be disabled or not; so I don't see why cousin marriages should be a concern. We live in a society were people are fine with gay marriages but not cousin marriages lol.

Any guy would marry a cousin who looked like Katrina Kaif, let's not even deny this. But sadly no all cousins look like Katrina, most are Zenubs and Parveens.
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Assuming a bit too much bro. I have cousins who look even better but I would never dream of marrying them or whatever . Its just gross. Maybe it's the difference in culture....
 
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