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Darren Sammy - Is he a Batsman or a Bowler?

Sammy's bowling is not bad to be fair but why has he resigned himself to the role of late order slogger? I wanna see him be the last man standing for WI, rearguard action with Shiv and Ramdin, leading from the front, like a proper captain.
 
Has talent with the bat. Can be useful with the ball. Above all, top captain.
 
He is just 12 away from his ton, so far in this series he has performed better than what most top order Indian batsman did in their tour to England
 
Brilliant innings today. Add to that the fact that the team is jelling together under him and you realise how great he's doing. Also add his bowling into the mix
 
Legend Killer said:
He is just 12 away from his ton, so far in this series he has performed better than what most top order Indian batsman did in their tour to England
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n what whole Pak line-up managed.we all remember them making sub-100 totals on more than one occasion
 
hopefully now he stops underestimating himself with the bat n drops a batsmen n plays himself at 7.hes got the talent just needs to apply himself
 
Saurav said:
n what whole Pak line-up managed.we all remember them making sub-100 totals on more than one occasion
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What's the need?

The other poster made a valid comment in trying to judge how good Sammy is. What does Pakistan have to do with any of that?
 
Saurav said:
n what whole Pak line-up managed.we all remember them making sub-100 totals on more than one occasion
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Yeah but the difference is that Pakistani fans never said that we have the best batting line up in the world while most indians were thumping their chest and going on about how their batting line up is the best in the world and can score in any conditions.see the difference :dav
 
Legend Killer said:
Yeah but the difference is that Pakistani fans never said that we have the best batting line up in the world while most indians were thumping their chest and going on about how their batting line up is the best in the world and can score in any conditions.see the difference :dav
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Damn straight our strength has always been bowling and I'm pretty sure by any standards we did pretty well in that department.
 
James said:
What's the need?

The other poster made a valid comment in trying to judge how good Sammy is. What does Pakistan have to do with any of that?
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wat did India have to with Sammy's innings?obviously he intended to rile Indian posters,I just replied
 
Saurav said:
wat did India have to with Sammy's innings?obviously he intended to rile Indian posters,I just replied
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No.

In an effort to compare and rate Sammy's innings, the poster was comparing the Windies batting to the batting of the last team to tour England. Who played in similar conditions against the same bowlers. This team was India.

You are just insecure.
 
James said:
No.

In an effort to compare and rate Sammy's innings, the poster was comparing the Windies batting to the batting of the last team to tour England. Who played in similar conditions against the same bowlers. This team was India.

You are just insecure.
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Exactly, Indian were the last team to tour england and they were a supposed batting powerhouse hence i compared Sammy's batting to their batting.
 
Sammy's bowling is innocuous at test level, he's as slow as the likes of umar amin / ganguly who were only ever used for a few overs for a break in play or just to change things up a bit. It's ridiculous that he's taking a bowlers spot in the team.

Now I understand that his calming captaincy is valued. But if that's the risk the wi board want to take, they have to bat him at 6.
 
Sultan Yusuf said:
Sammy's bowling is innocuous at test level, he's as slow as the likes of umar amin / ganguly who were only ever used for a few overs for a break in play or just to change things up a bit. It's ridiculous that he's taking a bowlers spot in the team.

Now I understand that his calming captaincy is valued. But if that's the risk the wi board want to take, they have to bat him at 6.
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I agree. he doesn't take enough wickets per match to justify being anything other than a part time bowler/4th seamer.

One of WI main problems is their bowling can knock a team down quite often to 5-100 or 7-150 or similar positions but then they run out of puff and can't finish the job because Sammy comes on and can't penetrate and the batting teams wriggles out of trouble & gets 400. This has happened against India, Oz & England lately.

Playing Sammy at 6 would enable them to pick another bowler/or allrounder (Andre Russel/Dwayne Bravo/Andre Russel or Sunil Narine if they want to lean on bowling) and help overcome this problem.

It would also allow Roach to bowl shorter spells at higher pace. Roach is being overbowled because he is the only reliable bowler and his pace is dropping due to workload because Sammy isn't pulling his weight as a bowler.
 
Lol, people doubting his bowling!

He has the same bowling average as the "great" Anil Kumble whom actually played for a far superior team.
 
someone21 said:
Lol, people doubting his bowling!

He has the same bowling average as the "great" Anil Kumble whom actually played for a far superior team.
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Lol at looking only at the average and not the strike rate or wickets per test. Sammy rates as a part timer with his wickets per test rate, he is exactly why WI struggle to bowl teams out.

He takes 2.5 wickets per test (even less against decent teams).
A POOR test bowler takes 3 or so per test. A GOOD test bowler takes 4+ per test. A GREAT bowler around 5.
 
wrongun said:
Lol at looking only at the average and not the strike rate or wickets per test. Sammy rates as a part timer with his wickets per test rate, he is exactly why WI struggle to bowl teams out.

He takes 2.5 wickets per test (even less against decent teams).
A POOR test bowler takes 3 or so per test. A GOOD test bowler takes 4+ per test. A GREAT bowler around 5.
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Not really 4 per Test is also great, you'd see many great fast bowlers like Michael Holding, Wasim Akram, Andy Roberts have a wicket taking ratio of 4 per Test approximately.
 
I don't understand the question "is he a batsman or a bowler".

He bats for the west indies team, and he also bowls for the west indies team, he also fields for the west indies team. He is also the current captain.

So he is a batsman, bowler, fielder and captain.
 
Kwremb said:
Not really 4 per Test is also great, you'd see many great fast bowlers like Michael Holding, Wasim Akram, Andy Roberts have a wicket taking ratio of 4 per Test approximately.
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Still, 2.5 is not good at all.

His strike rate is also 100+ and his average 50+ against Oz, SA & SL, the decent batting teams. I would say that after this series is done, his stats against England will be similar. Not even close to acceptable for an all rounder or a frontline bowler.

Now almost all players do better against weak teams and less well against strong teams of course but when you are utter rubbish against good teams and only perform at all against the bad teams then you are rightly regarded as a minnow basher. Good players do ok at least against good teams too.
 
wrongun said:
Still, 2.5 is not good at all.

His strike rate is also 100+ and his average 50+ against Oz, SA & SL, the decent batting teams. I would say that after this series is done, his stats against England will be similar. Not even close to acceptable for an all rounder or a frontline bowler.

Now almost all players do better against weak teams and less well against strong teams of course but when you are utter rubbish against good teams and only perform at all against the bad teams then you are rightly regarded as a minnow basher. Good players do ok at least against good teams too.
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You have been going on and on against Sammy and his bowling. He takes 2.5 wickets per test, did you consider how other bowlers , who are supposedly being kept out of the WI side due to Sammy, have been doing?

Edwards- 54 tests, 154 wickets@38, <3 wickets per test, average of 41 against top 6 sides

Rampaul- 15 tests, 38 wickets@36, <3 wickets per test, average of 36 against top 6 sides

Roach- 19 tests, 68 wickets@29, around 3.5 wickets per test, averages 31 against top 6 sides

Taylor- 29 tests, 82 wickets@36, <3 wickets per test, avg of 35 vs top 6 sides

Powell- 37 tests, 85 wickets@48, <3 wickets per test, average of 54 against top 6 sides

Best- 14 tests, 28 wickets@49, 2 wickets per test, average of 43 against top 6 sides

Bravo- 40 tests, 86 wickets@40, <3 wickets per test, average of 41 vs top 6 sides

Sammy - 26 tests, 67 wickets@32, <3 wickets per test, average of 39 against top 6 sides

Have not included the likes of Collins, Collymore and Lawson in the list as they haven't played for WI in the last 3-4 years.

What this list clearly shows is Sammy has not been worse than any other recent Windies pacer. The only one who has been better is Roach and he is the leader of the attack right now.

WI under Sammy have done much better than they have been in the last decade, despite missing some top players. A drawn test series vs Pakistan, 3-2 ODI losses vs India and Pakistan, running India very close at home, drawn ODI series vs Aussies, fighting test series vs Aussies...these are some of the things a WI supporter had forgotten in all these years. Why not give him the due credit for the way he has handled his young team against all odds?
 
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People are acting like Sammy is keeping out Malcolm Marshall from the team. The other "bowlers" are just as bad as him.

I like the idea they are discussing on cricket writers on TV at the moment. Drop Edwards, Push Sammy up the order with the bat ( should be ahead of Ramdin at 6 IMO) and bring in another seamer.
 
I've said before the bowlers I would bring in are either Kevin McClean or Jason Holder. Probably McClean now and if needed Holder in a couple of years.
 
Is there a reason why Sammy out-bowled all the other bowlers today?

Unless Roach and Rampaul were injured I can't see why he would do that.

It's not as if this is the first time either.

Reminds me of a person whom thinks he might as well take advantage of the fact he's the captain.
 
Sherlock said:
Is there a reason why Sammy out-bowled all the other bowlers today?

Unless Roach and Rampaul were injured I can't see why he would do that.

It's not as if this is the first time either.

Reminds me of a person whom thinks he might as well take advantage of the fact he's the captain.
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Primarily because Shillingford wasn't able to hold one end and went for plenty. Also, Roach had a few issues with his ankle.
 
Well Ravi doesn't exactly look fit right now. He has put on quite a bit of weight whilst he was injured a while back.
 
Batsman, bowler and most importantly a leader!

150784.jpg
 
I remember him saying something along the line i dont really care what people think of me, i dont care if i retire and people say who was this bloke Darren Sammy as long as i play for the batch on my shirt and give 100% for West Indies whenever im on the field. Boy what a passionate cricketer!
 
I also liked when he said that Jesus Christ did nothing wrong and he got crucified, so who is Darren Sammy not to get criticised.

Good leader. He has done a good job of uniting the team.
 
Sammy is brilliant. I've always supported him, and love to see the bloke doing well.
 
Sammy is more than sum of his parts.. I liked his post match comment..he said something like: I don't care about critics..when Jesus Christ had to face criticism then who is Darren Sammy. I play for my country (pointing at the logo on his shirt) and I give it my 100%.

Sammy may have less talent than many..but has the right attitude .. Loved to see him doing well today..
 
there are/were many better west indian batmen and bowlers but he is only 2nd world cup winning captain for his country. what richards, richardson, lara, gayle, chanderpaul cannot achieve he did.
 
Riff said:
I also liked when he said that Jesus Christ did nothing wrong and he got crucified, so who is Darren Sammy not to get criticised.

Good leader. He has done a good job of uniting the team.
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He was not crucified
 
He is above all a good captain nothing more nothing less, an avg player at best however what he is good at is man management & that takes a toll even on the greatest of cricketers !
 
munda_khi said:
there are/were many better west indian batmen and bowlers but he is only 2nd world cup winning captain for his country. what richards, richardson, lara, gayle, chanderpaul cannot achieve he did.
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They won the Champion's Trophy in the middle of 2004 under Lara's captaincy I believe.
 
Marshland said:
They won the Champion's Trophy in the middle of 2004 under Lara's captaincy I believe.
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champion's trophy is not a world cup. for ODI there is a world cup so champions trophy is just a tournament and thats why it didn't survive.

one can argue that there was no T20 world cup at the times of earlier greats.
 
Likeable guy, but really annoys me at the toss and then the compulsory dance when they something well :)
 
Never liked Bravo don't know why he has been made captain Sammy all the way for me plays with a smile on his face unlike some of his team mates.
 
Darren Sammy is the Man of the Match. Sammy: "I must thank my team-mates for giving me another opportunity. It must have been difficult to do that, seeing how the series has gone for me. Simmons and I communicated well. We backed ourselves to get 90-odd in the last ten overs. Once I am hitting the ball nicely, it was always good for me. Good to contribute in a crucial game."

Can somebody explain the above bolded statement? Haven't been following the series.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Darren Sammy is the Man of the Match. Sammy: "I must thank my team-mates for giving me another opportunity. It must have been difficult to do that, seeing how the series has gone for me. Simmons and I communicated well. We backed ourselves to get 90-odd in the last ten overs. Once I am hitting the ball nicely, it was always good for me. Good to contribute in a crucial game."

Can somebody explain the above bolded statement? Haven't been following the series.
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Clive Lylod questioned his position in the team, he thinks Windies are better off without him. Also stated that Sammy needs to prove his point.

In other words it's Sammy answering Lloyd 'Talk Nah Clive' :kohli
 
I'd hate to bowl to him.

We need a nickname for some of his shots. He is a butcher through and through. A Spartan with a sword.
 
He is criminally underrated as a batsman in LOIS due to playing with the likes of Gayle and Pollard he's one of the most destructive batsman in the world a very good finisher. His bowling is mediocre just a harmless trundler

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
That was fantastic hitting, clean and hard. Reminded me of Klusener during the 99 WC - Fantastic to watch.
 
Is sometimes a bowler who can bat a bit while sometimes a batsman (especially nowadays) who can bowl a bit.
 
Whatever he is :facepalm: he is just making sure pakistan miss the semi final for the first time.
 
Last 6 t20s he has an average of 140+, striking at 240+ with boundary percentage of 88%

:))

Those are staggering numbers. I've always maintained he is the best of the Windies lower order hitters.
 
Anyone see Sammy give a fist bump to Kami at the start of his innings?

Hard not to like the guy.

We need a Sammy smiley.
 
Well Done to him, as a hitter he's very good (if he clicks) but unfortunately his attitude and smugness recently in this tournament really did irritate me. Maybe he should think before saying stuff he does.
 
He's just been removed as captain, this could be the end of his WIs career given the relationship he has with the board.

Darren Sammy sacked as West Indies captain

Darren Julius Garvey Sammy has been dropped by the West Indies Cricket Board as captain of the regional team, of which he first took the reigns in 2010.

The 32-year-old all-rounder from Dugard has been one of the most successful leaders of the West Indies cricket team in all three formats of the game.

He was previously relieved of duty as captain of the Test and one-day international teams over the past two years, but in 2012 and 2016, he led the Caribbean outfit to glory in the International Cricket Council World Twenty20 Championships, the only captain to lift that trophy twice.

Darren made the announcement on Friday morning via a lengthy Facebook post.

He started out by thanking the fans and players who have been part of the Saint Lucia Zouks journey in the 2016 Hero Caribbean Premier League, the first time the Zouks have made it into the top four teams. In typical magnanimous fashion, he wished the teams remaining in the competition all the best.

But Darren quickly got down to the meat of the matter.

“This post here is for you the fans,” he said. “Six years ago I was asked to captain West Indies, a task which I thought would be the biggest challenge in my career, in my life, a task which I knew would be so difficult.

“But, guess what, I took it head on. I embraced the challenge. I embraced the difficulty. I turned up at the office, which is my playground, the cricket field, every day, and I put in the work.

“It started with [former West Indies head coach] Ottis Gibson, I want to thank you, buddy, for believing in me. And now it has ended up with Phil [Simmons, present head coach].

“So to my players all over the years who have been part of the team and who have played under my captaincy, I want to thank you for all the support.

“We have had our ups and downs, but I have never given up hope, I have never stopped believing in myself and in the team. That was what I was about as a captain, trying to instill a positive, never-say-die attitude in my team, and the result, we’ve won two World Cups.”

Darren explained that he got a phone call lasting no longer than 30 seconds on Thursday from recently installed convener of selectors, Courtney Browne, advising him that not only would he not be leading the Caribbean team for two upcoming T20 internationals against India in Florida, but that his performance did not merit his (Darren’s) selection in the team. Darren is the only player in the top 10 West Indians in both run scoring and wicket taking in this year’s edition of the Hero Caribbean Premier League.

But the now former captain, the first and only Saint Lucian ever to play Test cricket for West Indies, and the first from his island ever to play for the regional team in any format of the game, remained generous and big-hearted as ever. “I’ve always believed West Indies cricket is not about Darren Sammy. I want to wish the new captain all the best as he looks to lead West Indies cricket and take it forward.”

He concluded by stating that he would be able to dedicate more time to the Darren Sammy Foundation, which is intended to help develop young emerging athletes, and noting that he has always played with a smile, which will continue to be the way he approaches life.

Said Darren: “That smile nobody can take it away from me. My mama gave me that smile!”
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http://www.stlucianewsonline.com/breaking-daren-sammy-sacked-as-west-indies-captain/
 
He's basically been playing as a specialist captain recently.

Take his last 11 T20Is (since Jan 2015) and he's taken 1 wicket at an average of 108 and scored 51 runs at an average of 10.

What kind of form is that?
 
I feel bad for him. He's a great t20 specialist, WICB being childish as usual to axe an ATG T20 captain, only one in its illustrious history to win it 2 times, even better than established guys like Afridi and Dhoni.

Hope he gets redemption for this.
 
Suleiman said:
I feel bad for him. He's a great t20 specialist, WICB being childish as usual to axe an ATG T20 captain, only one in its illustrious history to win it 2 times, even better than established guys like Afridi and Dhoni.

Hope he gets redemption for this.
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He hasn't done anything of note (with the bat or ball) ininternational t20s for well over a year. That's not really the form of a "great t20 specialist".

How long should the selectors have persisted with him?
 
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