Did trying to host the PSL final in Pakistan do more harm than good?

[ExpressPacer]

In the past couple of weeks there have been multiple terror attacks in Pakistan which have cost us over a 100 lives. There have been bomb blasts ranging from Pakistan's biggest province Balochistan to capital of Punjab (twice). From KPK to Fata and even in Azaad Kashmir and Sindh. It is safe to say that the whole of Pakistan has been targeted and the enemies, whoever it may be, internal ones or external ones, have shown that Pakistan is still very much prone to terror attacks and still not out of the grip of terror.

I am not one for conspiracy theories and I don't want to target anyone. There is no point in playing the blame game as to who is behind all of this. That is simply not the crux of this thread. However what I do want to say is that all of this is definitely not coincidental. The security situation in Pakistan for around a year was fairly peaceful and pleasant (by our own standards) however, as soon as PCB and the media started boasting about Pakistan being the host for the final, things started going back to as they were. It felt like the terrorists were just showing us their power and how Pakistani's were delusional in thinking they were finally a safe country.

Big names like Gayle, Sammy, KP, McCullum were all ready to come to Pakistan and that could have really improved Pakistan's future as tourism would later on flourish.

Now this begs the question, would Pakistan have been better off by not announcing to host the PSL final in Lahore? Would we have been deprived of a hundred-something lives?

*DISCLAIMER: I am in no way saying this was definitely the case. I could be wrong. I might be wrong. This is just my opinion.*

 

[Salman]

Forget cricket for a minute, people overlook how a certain US political administration is now in charge, they have even more power and resources then ever before to finish off Pakistan as nation, but time is short though, maybe only one term at most, expecting a lot more damage over the next few years, this is only the start. Praying for its future.

 

[Slog]

Forget cricket for a minute, people overlook how a certain US political administration is now in charge, they have even more power and resources then ever before to finish off Pakistan as nation, but time is short though, maybe only one term at most, expecting a lot more damage over the next few years, this is only the start. Praying for its future.

are you saying this said us administration has anything to do with the recent upsurge?

 

[ExpressPacer]

Forget cricket for a minute, people overlook how a certain US political administration is now in charge, they have even more power and resources then ever before to finish off Pakistan as nation, but time is short though, maybe only one term at most, expecting a lot more damage over the next few years, this is only the start. Praying for its future.

I would agree. But USA knows Pakistan isn't as easy of a target like Syria or Afghanistan. And like you said, one term would not be enough for them to do much damage to Pakistan. And anyway, why would they need to? They have already appointed their puppet leaders here and have everything under control either way.

 

[ExpressPacer]

are you saying this said us administration has anything to do with the recent upsurge?

We could say its anybody. But, in my personal opinion, it isn't the USA. I don't see what they would get out of causing terror in Pakistan at the moment. This recent upsurge seems to be more of a specific thing. USA could be part of the broader spectrum in a proxy war but these recent attacks seem to have more of a vilifying agenda.

 

[Salman]

We could say its anybody. But, in my personal opinion, it isn't the USA. I don't see what they would get out of causing terror in Pakistan at the moment. This recent upsurge seems to be more of a specific thing. USA could be part of the broader spectrum in a proxy war but these recent attacks seem to have more of a vilifying agenda.

US have always been part of the broader spectrum when it comes to destabilizing Muslim regions, no conspiracy theories required. There are people and business interests within the Trump administration that would benefit greatly from a out of control Pakistan be it for financial or personal gratification.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

A quick google suggests that Jan/Feb/Mar 2016 was also a bad time for terror attacks in Pakistan.

The Bacha Khan University attack killed 20, 70+ were killed at a Lahore park and there were numerous attacks in Baluchistan.

And sadly 2017 hasn't started well for Pakistan either however is this really something unexpected/unusual?

Linking it to the PSL seems a tad presumptuous. Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[The_KING]

Forget cricket for a minute, people overlook how a certain US political administration is now in charge, they have even more power and resources then ever before to finish off Pakistan as nation, but time is short though, maybe only one term at most, expecting a lot more damage over the next few years, this is only the start. Praying for its future.

As always Pakistanis blaming foreign nations instead of themselves for terrorism. The fact is that there a lot of Pakistani terrorists that are roaming the streets of Pakistan everyday. No point blaming it always on USA, India etc.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't really understand what would the USA get out of setting off bombs in Pakistan? I always thought if anything Pakistan was a useful stooge for the US and offered a counter measure for more ambitious powers in the region like India or Russia. I assume that's why for all the noise coming out of the US about Pakistan being a terrorist nation, they never actually acted against Pakistan like they did against Afghanistan. We know from experience that if Uncle Sam says jump, the Pakistan establishment will say "how high?"

That being the case, why on earth would they bomb cities in Pakistan?

 

[Yossarian]

To suggest that so many bombings, suicide attacks and the resulting carnage was all intended to try and stop the PSL final taking place in Pakistan is ... well .... words fail me!

 

[Adil_94]

well one of the motives of the terrorists could be to keep the morale of the nation down by stopping International Cricket from returning to Pakistan. Because if PSL Final went ahead then it would be a defeat for the extremists who attacked cricketers in Pakistan 7 years ago. On One Hand you can see people wanting the show to go ahead to stick it to the terrorists but the Pakistani intelligence and security services just seem incompetent at this point that multiple attacks have happened in a matter of weeks. Despite all the talk of destroying terrorist sanctuaries these groups carry on attacking. But it cant be purely blamed on PSL these groups want the Pakistani state to be destroyed so they can implement their own rule that battle has been going on for a decade or more. Its a battle Pakistan has to keep on fighting.

 

[Zahid87]

To suggest that so many bombings, suicide attacks and the resulting carnage was all intended to try and stop the PSL final taking place in Pakistan is ... well .... words fail me!

Its the popular opinion here. This way they can pin the blame pretty easily on India - flimsy as that is.

Would be interesting to see if the state actually pinned people down for any of the recent attacks. Even with the Sri Lanka incident, was a theory with a credible claim of any actual evidence ever presented. Or did the state latch on to the conspiracy narrative, and people just forgot about it in the end.

 

[Yossarian]

Its the popular opinion here. This way they can pin the blame pretty easily on India - flimsy as that is.

You can just imagine a suicide bomber being told to go and blow himself up, killing many innocents, because the PCB intend to play the PSL final in Lahore instead of in the UAE.

 

[Syed1]

"We will hurt Pakistan through terrorism" - Ajit Doval.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

well one of the motives of the terrorists could be to keep the morale of the nation down by stopping International Cricket from returning to Pakistan. Because if PSL Final went ahead then it would be a defeat for the extremists who attacked cricketers in Pakistan 7 years ago. On One Hand you can see people wanting the show to go ahead to stick it to the terrorists but the Pakistani intelligence and security services just seem incompetent at this point that multiple attacks have happened in a matter of weeks. Despite all the talk of destroying terrorist sanctuaries these groups carry on attacking. But it cant be purely blamed on PSL these groups want the Pakistani state to be destroyed so they can implement their own rule that battle has been going on for a decade or more. Its a battle Pakistan has to keep on fighting.

The terrorist angle doesn't make much sense from a tactical angle either. Cricket is hugely popular in Pakistan, the country is already suffering from losing the game at home due to previous attacks. That would just turn the vast majority of people against the Islamic movements. Plus if the idea is to implement Islamic rule, then to turn the state against them will see them battered and shut down, so again I don't see any logic in it.

 

[proud_pakistani]

The terrorist angle doesn't make much sense from a tactical angle either. Cricket is hugely popular in Pakistan, the country is already suffering from losing the game at home due to previous attacks. That would just turn the vast majority of people against the Islamic movements. Plus if the idea is to implement Islamic rule, then to turn the state against them will see them battered and shut down, so again I don't see any logic in it.

Well terrorists don't really know logic do they. They are just mercenaries who work for the highest bidder.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well terrorists don't really know logic do they. They are just mercenaries who work for the highest bidder.

I assumed Adil was talking about Islamic groups as he was talking about them wanting to implement their own rule.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

"We will hurt Pakistan through terrorism" - Ajit Doval.

Are you just making stuff up or did Doval actually say this? Got a source?

 

[Adil_94]

@Cpt.Rishwat well if the groups dont believe in a democratic mandate or ruling by the will of the people because in their mind the people are too corrupted and only with an establish of their version of an Islamic State it will make sense in their mind. That to achieve a true Islamic state they have to seize power then Islamise society from the top down.

 

[Moiza]

It's funny to see how important we think we are to the world. The Jews, the Indians, the Americans etc are all planning to destroy us 24/7 and if it weren't for them we would have been leading the world in all departments.

To those Pakistanis who are themselves sitting in foreign countries and are paying judgment on how foreign powers are here to destroy us, please don't. Pakistan is full of terrorists, some go and kill the general population, some support them ideologically and some support them financially. If you're under the impression that this terrorism is caused by external forces then please step out of your bubble already.

Muslims always think they're some sort of celebrities and all the world powers are are here to destabilize us because if they don't then the whole world will turn into Muslims. What a joke we are.

 

[DW44]

It's funny to see how important we think we are to the world. The Jews, the Indians, the Americans etc are all planning to destroy us 24/7 and if it weren't for them we would have been leading the world in all departments.

To those Pakistanis who are themselves sitting in foreign countries and are paying judgment on how foreign powers are here to destroy us, please don't. Pakistan is full of terrorists, some go and kill the general population, some support them ideologically and some support them financially. If you're under the impression that this terrorism is caused by external forces then please step out of your bubble already.

Muslims always think they're some sort of celebrities and all the world powers are are here to destabilize us because if they don't then the whole world will turn into Muslims. What a joke we are.

Can't believe I'm saying this about a Moiza post but this is one hundred percent correct. Just spend a day walking around any major city in Pakistan and you'll pass by dozens of madrasas that supply recruits to these terrorist organizations. LeT runs a madrasa in their mosque in I-8 Islamabad and they're powerful enough to have halted the construction of a movie theater there for about three years now. Multan, a relatively small city, has enough madrasas affiliated with banned organizations to keep all of them flush with manpower for decades, and the extremism bug isn't just confined to terrorist organizations either, it has penetrated the public at large too. The mobs that attacked Ahmadis in Chakwal and Jhelum, or Christians in Lahore, Gujranwala and Faisalabad, the lawyers that facilitate murderers of alleged blasphemers, the IHC judge who kissed Mumtaz Qadri, the people who murdered Khuram Zaki and Sabeen Mahmood, and the religious parties like JI and JUI who facilitate terrorists are not Indian, Isreali or KFC agents, they're all Pakistanis and, in some cases, wield a lot of power and support in Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@Cpt.Rishwat well if the groups dont believe in a democratic mandate or ruling by the will of the people because in their mind the people are too corrupted and only with an establish of their version of an Islamic State it will make sense in their mind. That to achieve a true Islamic state they have to seize power then Islamise society from the top down.

So how does that logic work? To establish rule you would need to take out the old ruler. Blowing up a few buildings achieves what exactly? Walk me through this master plan.

 

[Adil_94]

@Cpt.Rishwat by chipping away at the state amd weakening its legitimacy and in its inability to keep its citizens safe. Either u can get concessions from the state so your agenda is somewhat appeased or if the state stays defiant you carry on attacking. By weakening the state by making it look weak it emboldens these groups. Its not a good plan but its what some Jihadists group prefer like Al Qaeda in Iraq under Zarqawi. They went after soft targets continuosly to undermine the legitimacy of the Iraqi govt and its allies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@Cpt.Rishwat by chipping away at the state amd weakening its legitimacy and in its inability to keep its citizens safe. Either u can get concessions from the state so your agenda is somewhat appeased or if the state stays defiant you carry on attacking. By weakening the state by making it look weak it emboldens these groups. Its not a good plan but its what some Jihadists group prefer like Al Qaeda in Iraq under Zarqawi. They went after soft targets continuosly to undermine the legitimacy of the Iraqi govt and its allies.

That's not a plan for rule, it's just vandalism at it's most extreme level. You can't really call it a plan.

 

[Adil_94]

@Cpt.Rishwat once the state has been effectively weakend and its infrastructure ripped apart thats when these groups come in to plug the security vacuum. thankfully the Pakistani military is a very strong institution so an Iraq or Syria type situation is very unlikely to happen in Pakistan

 

[Waseem]

Are you just making stuff up or did Doval actually say this? Got a source?

Not only that but an Indian ex Army chief General Vijay Kumar Singh (search both videos on youtube) also said that "We need to keep Pakistan engaged in domestic issues so they don't talk about Kashmir", we have to use Balochistan to keep them busy and we will go to any length to achieve that (inka khoon bhi bahana parega).

As for the links to PSL, i don't think India will do all this just to damage PSL so this could be a co incidence but there is absolutely no doubt about India's involvement. Almost all the attackers have come from Afghanistan and India is not even trying to hide this fact that they are using Afghanistan to spread terrorism across Pakistan (as they believe this is HOLY terrorism).

 

[PakLFC]

Yeah it was needless to announce a PSL final so early. There are many Pakistanis sold out to the USA and RAW harming their own country. Pak and ISI should use the same tactics in IoK where yesterday Indian soldiers were again killed. Ajit Doval and Bikran Singh have admitted causing terrorism in Pakistan many times. This is a fight with many angles that will last a few years. I truly believe that in 20 years either there will be no Pakistan or no India.

 

[srh]

RAW has defeated ISI

 

[rahulrulezz]

Are you just making stuff up or did Doval actually say this? Got a source?

Dude why defend. It works in Indias favour if they think this way.

I feel it was definitely Indian government and Raw doing these attacks inside Pakistan trying to stop Pakistan from hosting the final.

 

[PakLFC]

RAW has defeated ISI

Not at all. The tide is always going back and forth. At the moment RAW is on top though but ISI will be back with a bang.

 

[Waseem]

Dude why defend. It works in Indias favour if they think this way.

I feel it was definitely Indian government and Raw doing these attacks inside Pakistan trying to stop Pakistan from hosting the final.

Yes you can take pride in killing innocent people.

As for the PSL final, people feel that way as extreme wave of terrorist attacks initiated exactly couple of days after PSL final was announced but as i said above i don't think PSL is that important for Indian higher authorities as RAW is way more interested in securing Kashmir due to huge internal backlash. if your ex Army chief takes pride in saying "Hamain Kashmir se door rakhnay k liye Pakistan ko Balochistan main busy rakhna parega aur us k liye wahan khoon bahana parega" then you can't keep acting holy.

 

[saeedhk]

Pakistan - a nation of conspiracy theories.

The whole world is out to get us. Just think, who would want to destroy a country like ours. What do we have?

 

[Saeed]

Pakistan should be banned from hosting any sport events until Pakistan's top military brass and government take action against all terrorists.

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistan should be banned from hosting any sport events until Pakistan's top military brass and government take action against all terrorists.

You Indian? Take action against your terrorist PM amongst others before lecturing us. Remember Gujarat and Samjhauta Express for starters. India is the biggest terror supporting factory in the world.

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistan - a nation of conspiracy theories.

The whole world is out to get us. Just think, who would want to destroy a country like ours. What do we have?

Not really. Conspiracy theory is when people don't agree with the mainstream media. There are many who want to destroy Pakistan being the only Muslim nuke power. Christian, Hindu and Jewish fundo's can not accept that. Like any other Pakistan has many internal problems as well.

 

[Waseem]

Pakistan - a nation of conspiracy theories.

The whole world is out to get us. Just think, who would want to destroy a country like ours. What do we have?

Bro, I used to think like you as well but you really have to follow the events in the region to understand why some (not all) of these conspiracy theories are apread. I once argued with many (on pakpassion as well) when attack against Iraq was being planned. Then the troubles in Libya, Egypt, Syria etc prove that there are many international players trying to play games by destabilizing other nations for their own benefits.

 

[saeedhk]

Not really. Conspiracy theory is when people don't agree with the mainstream media. There are many who want to destroy Pakistan being the only Muslim nuke power. Christian, Hindu and Jewish fundo's can not accept that. Like any other Pakistan has many internal problems as well.

There might be a few countries who are wary of us having nukes but do you think they will encourage terrorism and anarchy and risk our nukes falling into the hands of militants? It does not make any sense.

 

[saeedhk]

Bro, I used to think like you as well but you really have to follow the events in the region to understand why some (not all) of these conspiracy theories are apread. I once argued with many (on pakpassion as well) when attack against Iraq was being planned. Then the troubles in Libya, Egypt, Syria etc prove that there are many international players trying to play games by destabilizing other nations for their own benefits.

Yes, I am following the developments in the region closely. Syria and Libya were on the hit-list of western countries because they defied the US. These two nations refused any US interference in their lands which is why chaos and destruction came to them.

 

[MenInG]

post sensibly and you will find your posts not deleted. Dont use swear words and dont get personal.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, I am following the developments in the region closely. Syria and Libya were on the hit-list of western countries because they defied the US. These two nations refused any US interference in their lands which is why chaos and destruction came to them.

Now you are sounding like a conspiracy theorist. As if all of the western world is thrall to the US, that England, Australia, Germany etc would all back overthrowing the regimes in Syria and Libya because they defied the US. Do you think the whole world is led by puppets that they will dance to the American tune?

I thought Pakistani conspiracy theorists were bad.

 

[MenInG]

Also a word about conspiracies on this thread and others. Think of the legal aspects of making allegations and think twice before posting as there is nothing anonymous on the internet.

 

[saeedhk]

Now you are sounding like a conspiracy theorist. As if all of the western world is thrall to the US, that England, Australia, Germany etc would all back overthrowing the regimes in Syria and Libya because they defied the US. Do you think the whole world is led by puppets that they will dance to the American tune?

I thought Pakistani conspiracy theorists were bad.

I meant there was animosity between these two countries and the west in general. For example, remember how France and the UK launched airstrikes and led the NATO air campaign in Libya?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I meant there was animosity between these two countries and the west in general. For example, remember how France and the UK launched airstrikes and led the NATO air campaign in Libya?

But you said Syria and Libya were hit because they defied the US and refused US interference in their lands. That's pretty specific, and to suggest that other countries were involved in regime removal on behalf of the US is about as kooky as conspiracy theories get.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Not at all. The tide is always going back and forth. At the moment RAW is on top though but ISI will be back with a bang.

What is there to be back with a bang with? RAW carries out an attack in Lahore and than ISI orchestrates another in some city in India? What is the point? There are only innocents dying in this. ISI needs to get intelligence on who has done these attacks if they really want to do some good in this world.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Pakistan - a nation of conspiracy theories.

The whole world is out to get us. Just think, who would want to destroy a country like ours. What do we have?

Everything. Pakistan is the strongest Muslim country in the world. Yes, we may think we are not as important but the educated class of Pakistani's will pose the biggest threat to the world. They stopped us before by bringing in Zia ul Haq before and when they achieved their mission, the killed him. Pakistan was moving at the speed of light back then and they halted us. But we're growing again and you see them trying to bring us down again. May sound like a load of crap to you but it is not.

 

[ExpressPacer]

post sensibly and you will find your posts not deleted. Dont use swear words and dont get personal.

MIG bhai, hope this is not about any of my posts?

 

[MenInG]

MIG bhai, hope this is not about any of my posts?

Generic bro. Just lets not go overboard with opinion vs fact

 

[saeedhk]

But you said Syria and Libya were hit because they defied the US and refused US interference in their lands. That's pretty specific, and to suggest that other countries were involved in regime removal on behalf of the US is about as kooky as conspiracy theories get.

That is true. France and the UK were the top backers along with the US for regime change in Libya.

 

[Saeed]

Yes, we may think we are not as important but the educated class of Pakistani's will pose the biggest threat to the world.

What exactly would make the educated "class" of Pakistan a threat to the world? In other countries they usually do something good for the world and their countries. I would love to hear the logic behind that remark.

 

[Moiza]

Not really. Conspiracy theory is when people don't agree with the mainstream media. There are many who want to destroy Pakistan being the only Muslim nuke power. Christian, Hindu and Jewish fundo's can not accept that. Like any other Pakistan has many internal problems as well.

Not really. Conspiracy theory is when people don't agree with the mainstream media. There are many who want to destroy Pakistan being the only Muslim nuke power. Christian, Hindu and Jewish fundo's can not accept that. Like any other Pakistan has many internal problems as well.

Pakistan, the country that lives in delusion.

What makes it about us that makes Jews and Christians so afraid/jealous of us? The fact that Muslims in their entire existence have managed to acquire only 2-3 noble prize despite being 1+ billion in population? Why do Muslims think they are somehow the most important beings to the world's ecosystem? I'm really interested in knowing.

Remind me, was it the jews or the christians who divided the taliban into the good and the bad? The good taliban seem to be eating us alive. The height of irony is that we curse the jews and christians day and night using the internet, mobile phones, computer etc that they created. You should thank God that there were jews and christians in the world or else we would still be living in the stone ages riding our camels.

As far as the Hindu population goes, yes they are not our friends and probably cause problems for us at every stage but I was under the impression that Pakistan had the world's best intelligence agency and an army whose 1 solider is equal to 5 Indian soliders, weren't these 2 forces supposed to protect us? Why even a fly's death is blamed upon India? If you think that terrorism is not an Internal problem then you havent seen the true Pakistan. The elements of terrorism are deeply entrenched into the society at every level and now they aren't even hard to identify, they are out in the open.

I thought this delusion was only limited to Pakistanis living in Pakistan but I was wrong. When will we realize that Pakistan is insignificant to the world? There this video on youtube where the guy asks people about their thoughts on Pakistan, it was very unsurprising for me to see that nobody knew what Pakistan was. Pakistan is turning into the Afghan population, the people who throughout their lives think that they are destined for greatness but other forces always made them fail. Pakistan is the new Umar Akmal, it's everyone's fault besides us.

 

[ExpressPacer]

What exactly would make the educated "class" of Pakistan a threat to the world? In other countries they usually do something good for the world and their countries. I would love to hear the logic behind that remark.

In the 50's and 60's, Pakistan was the fastest growing Asian economy. Ahead of China, Japan, Turkey and Iran. India wasn't even in the same league. It is the same reason why the educated class is a threat to the Western world now (and now perhaps India too) as it was back then. Pakistan possesses great mind and have the audacity to challenge the West, unlike India. This is what drives the hate. They simply cannot see Pakistan succeed.

As for the second part, your own statement is my answer. Pakistan growing as an economy because of educated class would inevitably lead it to becoming the superpower of the world. Pakistan was well on its way of becoming a developed country around half a century ago and eventually would have been in the same league as the strongest countries, however, certain powers of the world were unable to digest that which is when state-sponsored terrorism and proxy wars surfaced the earth.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Pakistan, the country that lives in delusion.

What makes it about us that makes Jews and Christians so afraid/jealous of us? The fact that Muslims in their entire existence have managed to acquire only 2-3 noble prize despite being 1+ billion in population? Why do Muslims think they are somehow the most important beings to the world's ecosystem? I'm really interested in knowing.

Remind me, was it the jews or the christians who divided the taliban into the good and the bad? The good taliban seem to be eating us alive. The height of irony is that we curse the jews and christians day and night using the internet, mobile phones, computer etc that they created. You should thank God that there were jews and christians in the world or else we would still be living in the stone ages riding our camels.

As far as the Hindu population goes, yes they are not our friends and probably cause problems for us at every stage but I was under the impression that Pakistan had the world's best intelligence agency and an army whose 1 solider is equal to 5 Indian soliders, weren't these 2 forces supposed to protect us? Why even a fly's death is blamed upon India? If you think that terrorism is not an Internal problem then you havent seen the true Pakistan. The elements of terrorism are deeply entrenched into the society at every level and now they aren't even hard to identify, they are out in the open.

I thought this delusion was only limited to Pakistanis living in Pakistan but I was wrong. When will we realize that Pakistan is insignificant to the world? There this video on youtube where the guy asks people about their thoughts on Pakistan, it was very unsurprising for me to see that nobody knew what Pakistan was. Pakistan is turning into the Afghan population, the people who throughout their lives think that they are destined for greatness but other forces always made them fail. Pakistan is the new Umar Akmal, it's everyone's fault besides us.

Moiza, you are by far one of my favourite posters on the Time Pass section and I cannot tell you how much I agree with. Everything you've said here makes this post the perfect candidate for POTW. However, there's one problem, the internal terrorism most of us fail to see is in itself there because of exogenous factors. ISI was corrupted by Western powers and men were bought who sold their country. This may sound all cheesy but is the harsh reality.

It is not the Jews, the Christians or Hindu's that are working towards Pakistan as a united force, I agree. However, there is some truth to the fact that Pakistan succeeding as an economy and as a country does most definitely pose a threat to the world, or some specific agenda that we are not aware of. - Which is why we have been so deeply inflicted with a problem that is going to eat us alive - religion. Religious fanatics and extremists are a creation of ISI itself and we all know who funds the ISI.

 

[LastManstanding]

Pakistan, the country that lives in delusion.

What makes it about us that makes Jews and Christians so afraid/jealous of us? The fact that Muslims in their entire existence have managed to acquire only 2-3 noble prize despite being 1+ billion in population? Why do Muslims think they are somehow the most important beings to the world's ecosystem? I'm really interested in knowing.

Remind me, was it the jews or the christians who divided the taliban into the good and the bad? The good taliban seem to be eating us alive. The height of irony is that we curse the jews and christians day and night using the internet, mobile phones, computer etc that they created. You should thank God that there were jews and christians in the world or else we would still be living in the stone ages riding our camels.

As far as the Hindu population goes, yes they are not our friends and probably cause problems for us at every stage but I was under the impression that Pakistan had the world's best intelligence agency and an army whose 1 solider is equal to 5 Indian soliders, weren't these 2 forces supposed to protect us? Why even a fly's death is blamed upon India? If you think that terrorism is not an Internal problem then you havent seen the true Pakistan. The elements of terrorism are deeply entrenched into the society at every level and now they aren't even hard to identify, they are out in the open.

I thought this delusion was only limited to Pakistanis living in Pakistan but I was wrong. When will we realize that Pakistan is insignificant to the world? There this video on youtube where the guy asks people about their thoughts on Pakistan, it was very unsurprising for me to see that nobody knew what Pakistan was. Pakistan is turning into the Afghan population, the people who throughout their lives think that they are destined for greatness but other forces always made them fail. Pakistan is the new Umar Akmal, it's everyone's fault besides us.

Does it include Hindus living in Pakistan as well?

 

[ExpressPacer]

Does it include Hindus living in Pakistan as well?

I think he meant Indians. Any-who, speaking of Hindus in Pakistan, things are changing, for good. Relations were always good but Zia and Post Zia era Pakistani's turned into extremists and religious fanatics. However, I'm really impressed with political parties working towards this cause (perhaps for minority votes). Especially PPP, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari spent Diwali with Hindus and celebrated Holi too.

I really like this. Even if he is power hungry or whatever, he is making an effort to unite all Pakistanis regardlessof caste or religion. Spends Christmas with Christians, Diwali with Hindus, goes to Ashura with Shias, celebrates 12 Rabbiulawal with Sunni's and if I'm not wrong, I even saw him in a Gurdwara recently.

 

[Moiza]

Moiza, you are by far one of my favourite posters on the Time Pass section and I cannot tell you how much I agree with. Everything you've said here makes this post the perfect candidate for POTW. However, there's one problem, the internal terrorism most of us fail to see is in itself there because of exogenous factors. ISI was corrupted by Western powers and men were bought who sold their country. This may sound all cheesy but is the harsh reality.

It is not the Jews, the Christians or Hindu's that are working towards Pakistan as a united force, I agree. However, there is some truth to the fact that Pakistan succeeding as an economy and as a country does most definitely pose a threat to the world, or some specific agenda that we are not aware of. - Which is why we have been so deeply inflicted with a problem that is going to eat us alive - religion. Religious fanatics and extremists are a creation of ISI itself and we all know who funds the ISI.

I doubt we would hardly make a dent in the world agenda if our economy tripled in value overnight. The problem is that Pakistanis are not really capable of doing anything of significance, we are very far behind in ever field so even if were rich it would hardly make any difference to anyone. The one country that is definitely bothered by our success is India, but that's understandable considering our history. We should not ignore the fact that Pakistan too does everything in it's powers to stop India from succeeding, our population thinks it's our right to attack India at will and that all Indians deserve to die. If there was a device that could kill all Indians in existence then I dont think the majority of our population will hesitate in using it. Pakistan has unfortunately lost all social and moral values and in a society like this it's not very hard to convince someone to blow themselves up, India doesnt have to do anything.

Religious extremism is quite widespread. I have personally met people who openly advocate the killing of Shias, Qadiyanis, girls who wear half selves and whose ankles are visible etc etc. I'm not making this up. In a city like Islamabad, which is supposedly the most educated and best scenario representation of Pakistan, has these sorts of extremists then it isn't hard to imagine how the situation is going to be in the rural areas of the country. It was long ago when Qadri was hanged to death and thousands showed up to his funeral, the whole city of Islambad was halted for the day because the Mullah party decided to block roads in the protest. This is Pakistan. I dont know how anyone can blame external forces despite knowing these facts, Pakistan mein sab kuch bikta hai. I wouldn't be surprised if people blow themselves up for a few hundred thousand rupees.

USA does like to spread it's influence throughout the world but claiming that USA is afraid of muslims is absurd. The general population is under the impression that the jews and the christians are very afraid of us and work day and night for our downfall, which to the disappointment of some posters here and the 95% population of Pakistan is not the case. Countries which are light years ahead of us and can obliterate us in a matter of hours are definitely not afraid of us. I wonder when will we understand this.

 

[Moiza]

Does it include Hindus living in Pakistan as well?

No, I meant Indians. Local hindu population, the one I have had exposure to, is quite rich and well integrated into the society, much better human beings too than majority of the Ummah.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I doubt we would hardly make a dent in the world agenda if our economy tripled in value overnight. The problem is that Pakistanis are not really capable of doing anything of significance, we are very far behind in ever field so even if were rich it would hardly make any difference to anyone. The one country that is definitely bothered by our success is India, but that's understandable considering our history. We should not ignore the fact that Pakistan too does everything in it's powers to stop India from succeeding, our population thinks it's our right to attack India at will and that all Indians deserve to die. If there was a device that could kill all Indians in existence then I dont think the majority of our population will hesitate in using it. Pakistan has unfortunately lost all social and moral values and in a society like this it's not very hard to convince someone to blow themselves up, India doesnt have to do anything.

Religious extremism is quite widespread. I have personally met people who openly advocate the killing of Shias, Qadiyanis, girls who wear half selves and whose ankles are visible etc etc. I'm not making this up. In a city like Islamabad, which is supposedly the most educated and best scenario representation of Pakistan, has these sorts of extremists then it isn't hard to imagine how the situation is going to be in the rural areas of the country. It was long ago when Qadri was hanged to death and thousands showed up to his funeral, the whole city of Islambad was halted for the day because the Mullah party decided to block roads in the protest. This is Pakistan. I dont know how anyone can blame external forces despite knowing these facts, Pakistan mein sab kuch bikta hai. I wouldn't be surprised if people blow themselves up for a few hundred thousand rupees.

USA does like to spread it's influence throughout the world but claiming that USA is afraid of muslims is absurd. The general population is under the impression that the jews and the christians are very afraid of us and work day and night for our downfall, which to the disappointment of some posters here and the 95% population of Pakistan is not the case. Countries which are light years ahead of us and can obliterate us in a matter of hours are definitely not afraid of us. I wonder when will we understand this.

I agree however these people that you are speaking of aren't even the real definition of Muslims. You see, we have these people because of a particular Army general who I will not name who infiltrated the Pakistani Muslims with extremism and Wahabbi ideologies. He created the Taliban and we all know who he was receiving funds from and who backed him. He sold his country. Simple as that. This is where the foreign powers, or one power in particular was successful. They've created so many internal problems through this simple doing that Pakistan will find it very to get back on its feet.

These Mullahs will continue to invite people to their sessions and create even more extremists. I come back to what I started with, the internal factors are the result of the external powers. This is what a proxy war is.

 

[Moiza]

I agree however these people that you are speaking of aren't even the real definition of Muslims. You see, we have these people because of a particular Army general who I will not name who infiltrated the Pakistani Muslims with extremism and Wahabbi ideologies. He created the Taliban and we all know who he was receiving funds from and who backed him. He sold his country. Simple as that. This is where the foreign powers, or one power in particular was successful. They've created so many internal problems through this simple doing that Pakistan will find it very to get back on its feet.

These Mullahs will continue to invite people to their sessions and create even more extremists. I come back to what I started with, the internal factors are the result of the external powers. This is what a proxy war is.

They aren't the real representatives of Islam, the religion which is perfectly fine and makes you a decent human. These guys are although the real definition of the modern era Muslims. You see good Muslims in barely 0.1% of the population, the rest as you know will sell their Imaan, country, people or anything asked for if the price is right.

 

[ExpressPacer]

They aren't the real representatives of Islam, the religion which is perfectly fine and makes you a decent human. These guys are although the real definition of the modern era Muslims. You see good Muslims in barely 0.1% of the population, the rest as you know will sell their Imaan, country, people or anything asked for if the price is right.

Very true. Unfortunately, this was not always the case. You seem like you know Pakistani History well. I think you would agree to the fact that Pre Zia era Pakistan was a progressive society moving towards a bright future. Now most of our population comprises of religious fanatics. The nefarious reality is that even people from the educated class have extreme views of killing Shias, Qadiyanis etc.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I doubt we would hardly make a dent in the world agenda if our economy tripled in value overnight. The problem is that Pakistanis are not really capable of doing anything of significance, we are very far behind in ever field so even if were rich it would hardly make any difference to anyone. The one country that is definitely bothered by our success is India, but that's understandable considering our history. We should not ignore the fact that Pakistan too does everything in it's powers to stop India from succeeding, our population thinks it's our right to attack India at will and that all Indians deserve to die. If there was a device that could kill all Indians in existence then I dont think the majority of our population will hesitate in using it. Pakistan has unfortunately lost all social and moral values and in a society like this it's not very hard to convince someone to blow themselves up, India doesnt have to do anything.

Religious extremism is quite widespread. I have personally met people who openly advocate the killing of Shias, Qadiyanis, girls who wear half selves and whose ankles are visible etc etc. I'm not making this up. In a city like Islamabad, which is supposedly the most educated and best scenario representation of Pakistan, has these sorts of extremists then it isn't hard to imagine how the situation is going to be in the rural areas of the country. It was long ago when Qadri was hanged to death and thousands showed up to his funeral, the whole city of Islambad was halted for the day because the Mullah party decided to block roads in the protest. This is Pakistan. I dont know how anyone can blame external forces despite knowing these facts, Pakistan mein sab kuch bikta hai. I wouldn't be surprised if people blow themselves up for a few hundred thousand rupees.

USA does like to spread it's influence throughout the world but claiming that USA is afraid of muslims is absurd. The general population is under the impression that the jews and the christians are very afraid of us and work day and night for our downfall, which to the disappointment of some posters here and the 95% population of Pakistan is not the case. Countries which are light years ahead of us and can obliterate us in a matter of hours are definitely not afraid of us. I wonder when will we understand this.

If you tone down the hyperbole then it might be easier to take your posts seriously. At the moment it's difficult to tell what is fact and what is emotional hysteria. For the sake of your own argument please rein it in.

 

[Moiza]

If you tone down the hyperbole then it might be easier to take your posts seriously. At the moment it's difficult to tell what is fact and what is emotional hysteria. For the sake of your own argument please rein it in.

How unsurprising that anything besides the direct blame on India, US or Israeli qualify as emotional hysteria. It would help if you point out certain aspects of the post that, in your opinion qualify as hysteria.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If there was a device that could kill all Indians in existence then I dont think the majority of our population will hesitate in using it.

Really? I mean seriously?

The general population is under the impression that the jews and the christians are very afraid of us and work day and night for our downfall, which to the disappointment of some posters here and the 95% population of Pakistan is not the case.

95% of the population must be ready to march on Jerusalem then with the USA to follow. When is the Islamic revolution going to happen then? When the cursed 5% stop watching cricket and Bollywood?

 

[Moiza]

Really? I mean seriously?




95% of the population must be ready to march on Jerusalem then with the USA to follow. When is the Islamic revolution going to happen then? When the cursed 5% stop watching cricket and Bollywood?

Yes seriously. I don't think you seen the kind of hate Pakistani people have for India. Open up any page of Facebook that posts about the army or the daily news and have a look at the comment section. You'll have your answer for how many people have no problem with Indians dying and how Indian deaths are celebrated.

Passing judgements is quite easy but they don't amount to much if you yourself live somewhere else and have no idea about the sentiments of the general population. The fact that you don't believe that the majority of the population of Pakistan blames India, USA and Israel for everything that happens in Pakistan tells so much about your knowledge on Pakistan and its society.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Yes seriously. I don't think you seen the kind of hate Pakistani people have for India. Open up any page of Facebook that posts about the army or the daily news and have a look at the comment section. You'll have your answer for how many people have no problem with Indians dying and how Indian deaths are celebrated.

Passing judgements is quite easy but they don't amount to much if you yourself live somewhere else and have no idea about the sentiments of the general population. The fact that you don't believe that the majority of the population of Pakistan blames India, USA and Israel for everything that happens in Pakistan tells so much about your knowledge on Pakistan and its society.

Bro, Facebook pages aren't even 1% of the total Pakistani population. I know a lot of people would. We're taught to hate India from the core of our hearts from the day we are born by our parents, teachers, schools and everyone but still that is a bit of an exaggeration. Everyone would consider the 250 million Muslims that live there.

 

[Moiza]

Bro, Facebook pages aren't even 1% of the total Pakistani population. I know a lot of people would. We're taught to hate India from the core of our hearts from the day we are born by our parents, teachers, schools and everyone but still that is a bit of an exaggeration. Everyone would consider the 250 million Muslims that live there.

The Facebook accounts are obviously very less percentage of the population but they very consistently represent the overall sentiments and thoughts of the general people. The hate for India is at unbelievable levels and is confusing to rise considering the current chain of events.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes seriously. I don't think you seen the kind of hate Pakistani people have for India. Open up any page of Facebook that posts about the army or the daily news and have a look at the comment section. You'll have your answer for how many people have no problem with Indians dying and how Indian deaths are celebrated.

Passing judgements is quite easy but they don't amount to much if you yourself live somewhere else and have no idea about the sentiments of the general population. The fact that you don't believe that the majority of the population of Pakistan blames India, USA and Israel for everything that happens in Pakistan tells so much about your knowledge on Pakistan and its society.

I have extended family there and I've never heard any such nonsense from them but you are right, that's just my family, maybe they aren't typical. You know your own family better than me, and if they are that delusional then you have my apologies and sympathy.

 

[Varun]

Bro, Facebook pages aren't even 1% of the total Pakistani population. I know a lot of people would. We're taught to hate India from the core of our hearts from the day we are born by our parents, teachers, schools and everyone but still that is a bit of an exaggeration. Everyone would consider the 250 million Muslims that live there.

What about the 750 million rest of us? Are we fair game to take out with a nuke?

 

[ExpressPacer]

What about the 750 million rest of us? Are we fair game to take out with a nuke?

I think majority of Pakistani's would blow the rest of them up. Unfortunately.

I hope I'm wrong. Things are changing but extremism is growing.

 

[Varun]

I think majority of Pakistani's would blow the rest of them up. Unfortunately.

They might, but at the moment they're too busy blowing their own countrymen up.

Why can't we just cut out the squabbling and live in peace?

 

[ExpressPacer]

They might, but at the moment they're too busy blowing their own countrymen up.

Why can't we just cut out the squabbling and live in peace?

I'm of the opinion that its people from across the border who are blowing themselves up with help and funding of another someone else across the border.

Its really sad that we can't. Its the least we deserve after having been slave to the white man for a hundred years. Politics, my friend. Politics.

 

[PakLFC]

There might be a few countries who are wary of us having nukes but do you think they will encourage terrorism and anarchy and risk our nukes falling into the hands of militants? It does not make any sense.

Yes they would. Our nukes falling in the wrong hands means terrorists will first attack Pakistani people like they are at the moment. It makes perfect sense for those who can think. They are causing mayhem without nukes at the moment supported by the very people who want them to have nukes.

 

[PakLFC]

What is there to be back with a bang with? RAW carries out an attack in Lahore and than ISI orchestrates another in some city in India? What is the point? There are only innocents dying in this. ISI needs to get intelligence on who has done these attacks if they really want to do some good in this world.

Meaning a country like India that admits causing terrorism in Pakistan only understands when it is made to bleed itself. The point is that this aggression is mostly due to the Kashmir quagmire for which India is responsible for.

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistan, the country that lives in delusion.

What makes it about us that makes Jews and Christians so afraid/jealous of us? The fact that Muslims in their entire existence have managed to acquire only 2-3 noble prize despite being 1+ billion in population? Why do Muslims think they are somehow the most important beings to the world's ecosystem? I'm really interested in knowing.

Remind me, was it the jews or the christians who divided the taliban into the good and the bad? The good taliban seem to be eating us alive. The height of irony is that we curse the jews and christians day and night using the internet, mobile phones, computer etc that they created. You should thank God that there were jews and christians in the world or else we would still be living in the stone ages riding our camels.

As far as the Hindu population goes, yes they are not our friends and probably cause problems for us at every stage but I was under the impression that Pakistan had the world's best intelligence agency and an army whose 1 solider is equal to 5 Indian soliders, weren't these 2 forces supposed to protect us? Why even a fly's death is blamed upon India? If you think that terrorism is not an Internal problem then you havent seen the true Pakistan. The elements of terrorism are deeply entrenched into the society at every level and now they aren't even hard to identify, they are out in the open.

I thought this delusion was only limited to Pakistanis living in Pakistan but I was wrong. When will we realize that Pakistan is insignificant to the world? There this video on youtube where the guy asks people about their thoughts on Pakistan, it was very unsurprising for me to see that nobody knew what Pakistan was. Pakistan is turning into the Afghan population, the people who throughout their lives think that they are destined for greatness but other forces always made them fail. Pakistan is the new Umar Akmal, it's everyone's fault besides us.

The conspiracy theories you are on about only exist in your mind. No one is saying that Pakistan is an angel yet to blame everything on it is equally absurd. Well if you understood Christian and Jewish doctrine you'd know that Muslim's according to them are not supposed to have nukes. Well I am not cursing the Jews or Christians at all rather have a problem with the Zionists. I love the good Christians as well as Jews.

If you condemn the Muslim terrorists then why don't you do so the NATO terrorists who have killed millions of innocent Muslim's. Oh I see so someone in a uniform is allowed to kill innocent people even if the UN doesn't sanction it. The good Taliban according to Pak are those who are fighting to liberate Afghanistan where as the ones killing us are being sponsored by outside forces. Pak should stay mutual in Afghanistan not supporting anyone whilst killing all who bomb us. Muslim or not.

Do you expect the ISI to be super human or something? Why couldn't the USA stop 9/11 or RAW 26/11? In a violent neighbourhood like the subcontinent there will be causalities especially when so many traitors live within Pakistan. We all know that many in Pak are in cahoots with the enemy, they are not necessarily religious people either but doing it for the money. Your views are one sided where as I am saying that Pak has both internal and external enemies. The country was relatively safe prior to 9/11 then all hell breaks loose. As the late Hamid Gul said " Bahaana 9/11, tikana Afghanistan aur nishaan Pakistan".

Give me a break! You are being ridiculous by pointing out one video on youtube to support your claims when I can mention many pro Pak ones as well. Pakistan is a very important country in the world and probably the most important Islamic one for sure. Many American's when talking of India believe you're talking of Red Indian's so that must make them irrelevant as well. There is no country in the world other then the USA, UK and such big ones that everyone is familiar with. I am sure there are millions who have not heard of Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey etc as well. There are plenty of positive videos by foreigners on Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

They might, but at the moment they're too busy blowing their own countrymen up.

Why can't we just cut out the squabbling and live in peace?

99.9999% of Indians have never met a Pakistani, and vice versa.

99.9999% of Indians are not/will not be affected by anything that Pakistan does, short of nuclear war. And vice versa.

e.g. How is the life of a farmer, eking out a living in a small village in the middle of Andhra Pradesh, affected by anything Pakistan does or doesn't do? (other than some emotions generated by watching on tv a Pakistani drama or a cricket match involving Pakistan). Similarly, his equivalent in some remote village in the heart of Sindh in Pakistan.

The only ones who benefit from a state of perpetual conflict between India and Pakistan are:

1. The military brass on both sides. Without fear of conflict, they could not justify the country spending such large amounts of its GDP on supporting the military, purchasing tanks, jets, warships et al. In turn they have guaranteed jobs, high quality officers housing, top schooling for their kids,.... along with high pensions and company directorships when they retire.

2. The industrials who supply the equipment and support services to the military. Whether that be tanks, guns and bullets, or more mundane equipment and services such as uniforms, rations, fuel. They have a guaranteed customer who will pay way over the actual value of the services provided.

3. Politicians. And the centuries old tried and trusted method of diverting attention from their own incompetence by using the external threat of the bogey man.

And now we can add one more to the list above. The media owners. Without the advertising revenue (provided by the wealthy industrialists), the media owners will have no income, and thus no business. So it's in their interest to keep the industrialists happy, and keep the ad revenue coming, by selective use of 'news' to manipulate the masses

 

[Moiza]

99.9999% of Indians have never met a Pakistani, and vice versa.

99.9999% of Indians are not/will not be affected by anything that Pakistan does, short of nuclear war. And vice versa.

e.g. How is the life of a farmer, eking out a living in a small village in the middle of Andhra Pradesh, affected by anything Pakistan does or doesn't do? (other than some emotions generated by watching on tv a Pakistani drama or a cricket match involving Pakistan). Similarly, his equivalent in some remote village in the heart of Sindh in Pakistan.

The only ones who benefit from a state of perpetual conflict between India and Pakistan are:

1. The military brass on both sides. Without fear of conflict, they could not justify the country spending such large amounts of its GDP on supporting the military, purchasing tanks, jets, warships et al. In turn they have guaranteed jobs, high quality officers housing, top schooling for their kids,.... along with high pensions and company directorships when they retire.

2. The industrials who supply the equipment and support services to the military. Whether that be tanks, guns and bullets, or more mundane equipment and services such as uniforms, rations, fuel. They have a guaranteed customer who will pay way over the actual value of the services provided.

3. Politicians. And the centuries old tried and trusted method of diverting attention from their own incompetence by using the external threat of the bogey man.

And now we can add one more to the list above. The media owners. Without the advertising revenue (provided by the wealthy industrialists), the media owners will have no income, and thus no business. So it's in their interest to keep the industrialists happy, and keep the ad revenue coming, by selective use of 'news' to manipulate the masses

Very good posts. All my friends how went abroad for further studies are pretty close friends with Indians but back home the same people are calling for the head of the other.

 

[imrankhannsu]

Backing out now from holding the final in Pakistan will be saying we don't have faith in our own security. But then again if anything happens, Pakistan can never hope of hosting a match for the next 10 years unless Afghanistan come to play.

I honestly don't know what should be done.

 

[princeuk]

It certainly has, the poor people of Lahore have suffered because of the final, maybe they shouldnt have announced it so soon, they have waited for the play off stages to announce it.

 

[Varun]

99.9999% of Indians have never met a Pakistani, and vice versa.

99.9999% of Indians are not/will not be affected by anything that Pakistan does, short of nuclear war. And vice versa.

e.g. How is the life of a farmer, eking out a living in a small village in the middle of Andhra Pradesh, affected by anything Pakistan does or doesn't do? (other than some emotions generated by watching on tv a Pakistani drama or a cricket match involving Pakistan). Similarly, his equivalent in some remote village in the heart of Sindh in Pakistan.

The only ones who benefit from a state of perpetual conflict between India and Pakistan are:

1. The military brass on both sides. Without fear of conflict, they could not justify the country spending such large amounts of its GDP on supporting the military, purchasing tanks, jets, warships et al. In turn they have guaranteed jobs, high quality officers housing, top schooling for their kids,.... along with high pensions and company directorships when they retire.

2. The industrials who supply the equipment and support services to the military. Whether that be tanks, guns and bullets, or more mundane equipment and services such as uniforms, rations, fuel. They have a guaranteed customer who will pay way over the actual value of the services provided.

3. Politicians. And the centuries old tried and trusted method of diverting attention from their own incompetence by using the external threat of the bogey man.

And now we can add one more to the list above. The media owners. Without the advertising revenue (provided by the wealthy industrialists), the media owners will have no income, and thus no business. So it's in their interest to keep the industrialists happy, and keep the ad revenue coming, by selective use of 'news' to manipulate the masses

All excellent points, and I wholeheartedly agree.