Disgusting stuff from Ansar Abbasi and Orya Maqbool Jan

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They destroyed them because they could. What were Muslim countries doing all this time when they were developing the steam engine, the airplane and the UAV. Their fault that they were in a position where a superior power subjugated them for personal gain but they can't complain since they did the same back in the 'golden days' when the famous 'Spain to Indonesia' empire existed. Spain didn't one day cede to the Caliphate because they liked them so much.

End of debate.

 

[akheR]

Spain didn't one day cede to the Caliphate because they liked them so much.

Do you know why the Berber Tariq ibn Ziyad was successful ? Because the local Spanish welcomed him and others as heroes - are Americans hailed as heroes in Afghanistan and Iraq (apart from some random Shias who found senses few years after the invasion) ? The Spanish were tired of the Germanic (if you study genetics, more "foreigners" than Berbers like Tariq) Visigoths invaders, and welcomed other "invaders", the Muslims, who transformed Hispania into al Andalus and one of the most exciting intellectual and cultural experiences in the history of mankind.
So read history books, because Spain did "one day cede to the Caliphate because they liked them so much" (and so did Egypt, Syria, ... tired of Greek/Roman armies) because, if it wasn't the case, how would have been it possible that (nearly) the whole peninsula was conquered in few months.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Do you know why the Berber Tariq ibn Ziyad was successful ? Because the local Spanish welcomed him and others as heroes - are Americans hailed as heroes in Afghanistan and Iraq (apart from some random Shias who found senses few years after the invasion) ? The Spanish were tired of the Germanic (if you study genetics, more "foreigners" than Berbers like Tariq) Visigoths invaders, and welcomed other "invaders", the Muslims, who transformed Hispania into al Andalus and one of the most exciting intellectual and cultural experiences in the history of mankind.
So read history books, because Spain did "one day cede to the Caliphate because they liked them so much" (and so did Egypt, Syria, ... tired of Greek/Roman armies) because, if it wasn't the case, how would have been it possible that (nearly) the whole peninsula was conquered in few months.

I'm no historian, but back then I'll wager that the Caliphate was on at least a par with other civilisations as far as intellectual wealth and military capability. So if the local Spanish welcomed the Caliphate it was with good reason.

 

[Nostalgic]

when an islamic government comes in algeria they destroy it, when it comes in egypt they destroy it, when it comes in afghanistan or swat they destroy it, when it comes in mali they destroy it and when it comes in somalia they destroy 2 first the islamic courts then al shahbab.

Yes, Somalia and Mali were on the cusp of a technological renaissance when the new governments were destroyed.

 

[KB-24]

To say that women in Pakistan don't have access to education is downright laughable and this is the exact perception Malala backers are trying to create in the world against Pakistan and well against Muslims in general. This is what we oppose alongside the secular curriculum these lobbyists will be trying to push.

The real issue is the supposed failure of accessibility of education for girls living in the rural areas of Pakistan. Well this issue falls under state governance therefore, the government should be the one accounted. But of course, can't expect 'rationality' from the supposed saviors of mankind.

 

[KB-24]

Ah, I see. But shouldn't it be the duty of every Pakistani to voice their opinions? Especially if they are intellectuals?

A scientific intellectual doesn't necessarily have the know how of politics.

 

[desi_boy]

desiboy stop trying to act like the voice of reason here when you all you are doing is perpetuating false stereotypes yourself and thinking in black and white. Its easy to get on your high horse and claim that liberals and conservatives are as bad as each other without first offering an opinion yourself on this issue.

First off I was responding to a specific post by a user.

Second you want me take a stand on what issue exactly please clarify? If you are talking about Malala, then I have a lot of respect for her and the work she is doing but that is not what the OP was talking about was he? From what I can tell this is a discussion about people of opposite side of socio-political spectrum and how they treat each other or maybe I'm mistaken.

He started a thread and went on a rant about one side being evil and being an extremist sympathiser/conspiracy theory peddlers yet while the other the most rational despite the evidence to the contrary even in that program itself!

Third how am I perpetuating false stereotypes? Maybe I should clarify that when I was talking about conservatives and Liberals I was talking about them in Pakistani Context. These two ideological terms have varied descriptions from region to region and country to country. I generally find myself at odds with both sides of the spectrum but when it comes to Pakistani context, I despise both and I have mentioned my reasons why I do that in my earlier posts.

I for example, happen to think Hoodbhoy was rash in becoming aggressive but then these two "journalists" are such blatant demagogues and manipulate people by appealing to their religious "fervour" and honour that it makes one sick.

This is exactly what I am talking about, neither side holds much moral ground yet they through accusations against each other as if they are the personification of the most moral/ethical human being!

Just a few more things. IT is highly irrational(even within the context of being a Muslim) to believe that these suffixes form an important part of your faith. It is also irrational to think that Malala's father's response over the Satanic verses controversy was somehow anti-Islamic or something to ashamed of.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Does that mean if you are a Muslim then by default you are irrational? and you accused me of "perpetuating false stereotypes!

I haven't heard what Malala's father's response regarding the verses but here are my two cents...

The actual so called satanic Verses first of all are based on an absolutely dubious source to begin with but it is being peddled by Islamophobes as an absolute truth. Second, did Salman Rushdie not realise what he was getting into when wrote such a vile book? Coming from a "Muslim" background albeit he wasn't one himself, did he not know that Insulting the Prophet (PBUH) and his household was a major redline for Muslims? He is a Pathetic human being who just to further his career and earn some bucks attacked the most beloved Individual and his family by Muslims!

 

[desi_boy]

What I don't get is that you are sitting in Canada, probably with a Canadian citizenship, without any intentions of ever returning to Pakistan, and are telling Pakistanis who have to deal with their future themselves on how to behave!

Personally, I seem to find this sort of attitude prevalent amongst all foreign born and bred South-Asians - Indians and Pakistanis. They seem to be more hardcore religious and jingoistic than those living in their own countries.

Excuse me? I don't have the right to discuss Pakistani issues just because I live in Canada with a Canadian Citizenship? first off I am a dual citizen, second I go to Pakistan every year and try to spend time there as much as I can and more importantly I am a registered voter in Pakistan. I have been contributing to Pakistan financially every year however miniscule it may be. I send money to support the free clinic my cousins are running for the poor. I donate money as Sadaqa every year not to mention I send zakat to Pakistan as well. My entire extended family lives there and I am not supposed to be concerned with Pakistan?

Not to mention most of the PPer's of liberal kind are living in western countries themselves. Why the hell aren't you condemning them the same way as you did me? and Unlike you I condemn both sides for their idiotic behaviour, you always favour liberals just because you are one! That is exactly why I hate Pakistani liberalism as much as conservatism!

 

[Cosmic]

Desi_ boy You rock man, I was just following tanzeel thought would be rational with valid reason but he can't differentiate b/w jahil and anpar i feel soory for him.... mr. carbon11 did awesome job by putting a valid argument...


we all know hoodhbhoy contribution to his particular field... sciences or whatever but insulting the reports and simply making allegations they are liars its not worth of it.....

it so clear that hoodhboy has many andaaaaaaaaaaaaays all around the world... i don't know they might start worshiping him....

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

copied direct from the book ...make up your mind

"My father’s college held a heated debate in a packed room. Many students argued that the book should be banned and burned and the fatwa upheld. My father also saw the book as offensive to Islam but believes strongly in freedom of speech. ‘First, let’s read the book and then why not respond with our own book,’ he suggested. He ended by asking in a thundering voice my grandfather would have been proud of, ‘Is Islam such a weak religion that it cannot tolerate a book written against it? Not my Islam!’"

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

another Gem

" I was a girl in a land where rifles are fired in celebration of a son, while daughters are hidden away behind a curtain, their role in life simply to prepare food and give birth to children"

i mean she is kidding right ?

 

[LegendInzi]

@Those glorifying Hoodbhoy because he went to MIT:

What's your stance on Aafia Siddiqui? Do you hold her in same esteem as Hoodbhoy? If you don't then it's pure hypocrisy...

 

[DW44]

copied direct from the book ...make up your mind

"My father’s college held a heated debate in a packed room. Many students argued that the book should be banned and burned and the fatwa upheld. My father also saw the book as offensive to Islam but believes strongly in freedom of speech. ‘First, let’s read the book and then why not respond with our own book,’ he suggested. He ended by asking in a thundering voice my grandfather would have been proud of, ‘Is Islam such a weak religion that it cannot tolerate a book written against it? Not my Islam!’"

Good stuff. Don't see what's wrong with it.

another Gem

" I was a girl in a land where rifles are fired in celebration of a son, while daughters are hidden away behind a curtain, their role in life simply to prepare food and give birth to children"

i mean she is kidding right ?

No. She's bang on the money on this one.

@Those glorifying Hoodbhoy because he went to MIT:

What's your stance on Aafia Siddiqui? Do you hold her in same esteem as Hoodbhoy? If you don't then it's pure hypocrisy...

Going to MIT means nothing if you don't put it to good use, Bush 2 went to Yale afterall. Thing is that while Hoodbhoy was sharing his knowledge with the nation's best and brightest at LUMS and QeA when he could have easily made several times more money teaching at the likes of Stanford, Berkeley or MIT itself , Afia was divorcing her husband and abandoning her kids so she could marry Khalid Sheikh Mohammad's nephew and wage 'holy jihad'.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Good stuff. Don't see what's wrong with it.



No. She's bang on the money on this one.



Going to MIT means nothing if you don't put it to good use, Bush 2 went to Yale afterall. Thing is that while Hoodbhoy was sharing his knowledge with the nation's best and brightest at LUMS and QeA when he could have easily made several times more money teaching at the likes of Stanford, Berkeley or MIT itself , Afia was divorcing her husband and abandoning her kids so she could marry Khalid Sheikh Mohammad's nephew and wage 'holy jihad'.

read the word strongly and try to comprehend what that mean .

 

[the Great Khan]

Ah, I see. But shouldn't it be the duty of every Pakistani to voice their opinions? Especially if they are intellectuals?

lol cmon lets be honest. If your a professional like Hoodbhoy why would you lower yourself to the level of some of our lovely journalists? Sorry but he should have known better. there are other ways of getting his voice heard and he should avoid these fish market talk shows unless its on his terms e.g. an interview and so forth.

I dont agree with his some of his views but I would still read what he has to say.

Also the colective hysteria against Malala is stupidity at its best. People cant seem to seperate her message from the way she is being exploited by certain sections of the west. Own her message or shut the hell up. Same with Hoodbhoy.

 

[saeedhk]

another Gem

" I was a girl in a land where rifles are fired in celebration of a son, while daughters are hidden away behind a curtain, their role in life simply to prepare food and give birth to children"

i mean she is kidding right ?

Isnt this somewhat true?



http://dawn.com/news/1051796/pakistan-second-worst-country-in-gender-equality-wef

 

[dhump]

another Gem

" I was a girl in a land where rifles are fired in celebration of a son, while daughters are hidden away behind a curtain, their role in life simply to prepare food and give birth to children"

i mean she is kidding right ?

People born and raised in Europe and America or other foreign countries with families rich and middle class (which is may be 10% of total population of Pakistan) try to debate about situation of education and women rights in Pakistan is hilarious to me.

Bhai go to Pakistan and see the situation of majority she is not kidding we still have hundreds of issues of people leaving their daughters at edhi centers (just because she is a girl born into the family & incidents like father throwing his 1 month old daughter in flowing rivers because she was a the 2nd girl born in the family).

Education standard in Pakistan is crap for about 90% of school private and government where metric pass teachers are teaching and childrens are not able to write their names properly and even this facility is hardly available to 30% of countries population.

Situation in Pakistan worst beyond once imagination and it cannot be seen while sitting in our comfy bedrooms in some western country and being a keyboard warrior.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Isnt this somewhat true?



http://dawn.com/news/1051796/pakistan-second-worst-country-in-gender-equality-wef

no credentials of the report

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

People born and raised in Europe and America or other foreign countries with families rich and middle class (which is may be 10% of total population of Pakistan) try to debate about situation of education and women rights in Pakistan is hilarious to me.

Bhai go to Pakistan and see the situation of majority she is not kidding we still have hundreds of issues of people leaving their daughters at edhi centers (just because she is a girl born into the family & incidents like father throwing his 1 month old daughter in flowing rivers because she was a the 2nd girl born in the family).

Education standard in Pakistan is crap for about 90% of school private and government where metric pass teachers are teaching and childrens are not able to write their names properly and even this facility is hardly available to 30% of countries population.

Situation in Pakistan worst beyond once imagination and it cannot be seen while sitting in our comfy bedrooms in some western country and being a keyboard warrior.

I was born in Pakistan and have spent most of life in Pakistan and no one is denying the situation is pretty bad but are you for real ? when malala generalise the whole women population ?

BTW where did you get these % stuff ? poor guesses

 

[saeedhk]

no credentials of the report

I doubt you have the intellect to engage in a debate in a meaningful and constructive way.Whenever you cannot provide an answer ,you resort to tactics like this.Even yesterday,you could not even provide a single reason behind your twisted way of thinking.I

 

[dhump]

I was born in Pakistan and have spent most of life in Pakistan and no one is denying the situation is pretty bad but are you for real ? when malala generalise the whole women population ?

BTW where did you get these % stuff ? poor guesses

Official statistics released by the Federal Education Ministry of Pakistan give a desperate picture of education for all, espcially for girls. The overall literacy rate is 46 per cent, while only 26 per cent of girls are literate. Independent sources and educational experts, however, are sceptical. They place the overall literacy rate at 26 per cent and the rate for girls and women at 12 per cent.

http://www.unesco.org/education/efa/know_sharing/grassroots_stories/pakistan_2.shtml

and regarding private schools I have studied in Pakistan throughout my life and even now I am in Pakistan for at-least 3 months in a year (got business there). Situation of goverment schools are horrible teachers just do not attend the classes majority of them and those who attend sometimes are teaching several classes in a single room.

Private school I can say about Karachi easily (Karachi is the biggest city and I guess if we compare then its Lahore,Karachi,Islamabad to be considered most modern and educated cities in the country). Situation is simple there are schools in every corner with hardly metric passed teachers are teaching (at-least know 6 or 7 of them personally) and this 23% includes all of them so this is the situation.

 

[DW44]

read the word strongly and try to comprehend what that mean .

Read it several times, still don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[desi_boy]

Desi_ boy You rock man, I was just following tanzeel thought would be rational with valid reason but he can't differentiate b/w jahil and anpar i feel soory for him.... mr. carbon11 did awesome job by putting a valid argument...


we all know hoodhbhoy contribution to his particular field... sciences or whatever but insulting the reports and simply making allegations they are liars its not worth of it.....

it so clear that hoodhboy has many andaaaaaaaaaaaaays all around the world... i don't know they might start worshiping him....

While I do appreciate the compliment, please don't put me together with mr.carbon11... I happen to appreciate Hoodbhoy's scientific achievements and contributions to education within Pakistan!...What I have a problem with, is when discussing socio-political issues from the place of Alcohol to Hijab or any other issue regarding Islamic rulings he paints everyone that disagrees with him as a taliban sympathiser/extremist...it shows a very narrow and closed mind!

 

[oyei]

Pakistan does not deserve people like him.He is an asset.

stop being a drama queen, every other post is "Pakistan do not deserve people like him", every nation is filled with nutt job, Pakistani deserve and need more intellectual mind like him than any other nation in the world

I am glad that he has not left Pakistan to teach in some foreign Univ, those who appreciate him and wants to learn from, and there are plenty of students who would love to have him as a teacher, they all deserve him and other like him.

 

[saeedhk]

stop being a drama queen, every other post is "Pakistan do not deserve people like him", every nation is filled with nutt job, Pakistani deserve and need more intellectual mind like him than any other nation in the world

I am glad that he has not left Pakistan to teach in some foreign Univ, those who appreciate him and wants to learn from, and there are plenty of students who would love to have him as a teacher, they all deserve him and other like him.

That is a natural reaction when you have nutcases cursing and abusing this person.Nothing dramatic about it.

 

[KB-24]

The excerpt from the book regarding her dad's opinion on Rushdie ... pure jahalat !! Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi !!

 

[Nostalgic]

Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi !!

That's the spirit. Invariably it only applies to those on the left. Those on the right can abuse their freedom of expression till the proverbial cows come home.

 

[saadibaba]

Orya ka Borya: the most comprehensive take down of Orya Maqbool Jan

http://urdu.dawn.com/2013/10/29/orya-ka-borya-am-abid-aq/

 

[kinventor]

@Those glorifying Hoodbhoy because he went to MIT:

What's your stance on Aafia Siddiqui? Do you hold her in same esteem as Hoodbhoy? If you don't then it's pure hypocrisy...

One is terrorist, what next do we hold Osama in high esteem for having engineering degree?

 

[Nostalgic]

On a different note, what sort of name is Orya? It's the language they speak in Orissa, right? Why name a child that?

And Maqbool Jaan sounds like a Punjabi village woman from the 1800s, or worse, a courtesan from the red light district in Agra.

Not that that diminishes his many "achievements" to date, like that award winning stint at Zarb-e-Momin. But I'm just curious.

 

[Invasion 550]

Makes me glad I left that dump of a university when I did. Sad to see how far it has regressed, from supplying the country with some of it's top intellectual capital to producing idiots with as much reasoning skills as your average Jamati.

Pretty sure that you didnt leave it. They must have kicked you. No one leaves that university.

Nope it hasnt. Maybe you need to get down from your high horse.

 

[Invasion 550]

Figures that a country in such deep crap would call one of their few credible physicist a "jahil". Logic works backwards in this country.

Jahil in terms of his approach to social issues. Never said anything against his credibility.

 

[coca-cola]

Jahil in terms of his approach to social issues. Never said anything against his credibility.

And being literate would entail misquoting a paragraph from a book to falsely attack a 16 year old girl?

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Orya ka Borya: the most comprehensive take down of Orya Maqbool Jan

http://urdu.dawn.com/2013/10/29/orya-ka-borya-am-abid-aq/

Pathetic article , i am wondering how did Dawn even publish it ?

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

I doubt you have the intellect to engage in a debate in a meaningful and constructive way with people who suffer from Mind-blindness.Whenever you cannot provide an answer ,you resort to tactics like this.Even yesterday,you could not even provide a single reason behind your twisted way of thinking.I

fixed

 

[Nunna]

And being literate would entail misquoting a paragraph from a book to falsely attack a 16 year old girl?

Sir, I will strongly suggest cool down, and think about it, did she really write that book? how much of her view is in that book. There is bigger story and motive to this book than just her.
I saw this interview, they are not misquoting the book, neither they blaming her. Their problem is that they don't believe in your version of freedom of speech.
I assume you live in Europe, can you deny holocaust?
by freedom of speech you should be able to say whatever you like, but this you can't

reason being this is sensitive issue, and you would be throwing in jail,
same goes for Muslims, Rushdie wrote some inappropriate stuff about Muahammad PBUH, and there is no compromise on that, calling is freedom of expression and totally ignore it might be difficult.

In that interview, Ansar Abasi and Orya Jan were focusing on Mala's father and his views and his input in that book.

I personally don't think Mala has more than 20 pages of her view in that book.
I have not read the book, I am just saying based on information gathered from media.

 

[Nunna]

I was born in Pakistan and have spent most of life in Pakistan and no one is denying the situation is pretty bad but are you for real ? when malala generalise the whole women population ?

BTW where did you get these % stuff ? poor guesses

This is the problem, In malala's book they trying to generalise the whole women situation in whole pakistan is really bad, its bad, but in rural areas. But at the moment there are other factors that no one mention affecting this situation is war bad economy and stuff.

 

[DoosraTeesra]

The excerpt from the book regarding her dad's opinion on Rushdie ... pure jahalat !! Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi !!

Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi. Acha G, to yeh baat hai

You should thank liberals that tolerate your mindless, baseless opinions. Had we been like you and your kind, situation wouldn't be so pretty.
Fortunately liberals have tolerance and respect for other viewpoints. Even if we disagree. we do it respectfully by placing arguments with manners and logical reason. Not by putting a shotgun at the head and pulling the trigger for having a difference of opinion.

Tolerance tum jaisy logon mein khtum hogya hai.

 

[DoosraTeesra]

Pathetic article , i am wondering how did Dawn even publish it ?

Because Dawn isn't run by religious intolerant nutters who believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories which have been exposed time and time again with logical evidence but pigs have to fly first before your likes understand your ignorance.

Social media is now filled with demands to charge malala with blasphemy thanks to OREO Maqbool and his partner Ansar Abbasi. the Lanats and yahoodi labels on a 16 year old girl have been going on for a while. Matter of pride for Pakistan and Islam. You guys are so insecure that a paragraph in a book (which no way meant blasphemy) has threatened your religion.

 

[Nostalgic]

Dawn published it because it isn't Zarb-e-Momin, the rag that Oreo wrote for.

 

[Nostalgic]

Social media is now filled with demands to charge malala with blasphemy thanks to OREO Maqbool and his partner Ansar Abbasi. the Lanats and yahoodi labels on a 16 year old girl have been going on for a while. Matter of pride for Pakistan and Islam. You guys are so insecure that a paragraph in a book (which no way meant blasphemy) has threatened your religion.

That Kishwar Naheed poem, written after the MMA debacle in 2002, summed it up quite nicely. "Woh Jo Bachion Say Bhi Darr Gaye."

Little girls terrify them. And hapless Christians. And beleaguered Ahmedis. And Shias. And liberals. What a pathetic existence it must be, to live in mortal fear of those that pose no threat.

 

[coca-cola]

Sir, I will strongly suggest cool down, and think about it, did she really write that book? how much of her view is in that book. There is bigger story and motive to this book than just her.
I saw this interview, they are not misquoting the book, neither they blaming her. Their problem is that they don't believe in your version of freedom of speech.
I assume you live in Europe, can you deny holocaust?
by freedom of speech you should be able to say whatever you like, but this you can't

reason being this is sensitive issue, and you would be throwing in jail,
same goes for Muslims, Rushdie wrote some inappropriate stuff about Muahammad PBUH, and there is no compromise on that, calling is freedom of expression and totally ignore it might be difficult.

In that interview, Ansar Abasi and Orya Jan were focusing on Mala's father and his views and his input in that book.

I personally don't think Mala has more than 20 pages of her view in that book.
I have not read the book, I am just saying based on information gathered from media.

Rushdie wrote that stuff in Pakistan? He wrote it in Britain where he IS allowed to write it. Don't tell people of other countries what they can and cannot do.

The logic is absurd, Rushdie isn't a Pakistani, he isn't even a Muslim - then why are we applying our laws on him?

Malala and her father are absolutely right. You people make Muslims look like illiterate cavemen who can't even string a few sentences together in rebuttal. Instead you start burning down Gas Stations and Mcdonalds.

And yet you bring up the Holocaust. Touchy subject, yes. But if I, as a Pakistani, sitting in Pakistan, write something crude and crass about it, will the Europeans put a fatwa on me? Will they start burning tires on the road? Will they come to Pakistan to assassinate me? NO. They will, as all literate men do, rip me apart using the power of the pen. Using wisdom, knowledge, using akal. Your example makes no sense.
-----------------------------------------

What part about this is wrong? That they challenge muslims to use their wisdom to fight back? What benefit does assassinating people have? Has it shut them up? What do you think holds more power? Slitting our own wrist by burning down restaurants or using our intelligence, a gift Allah has given us? God forbid we ever do that.

 

[coca-cola]

@Those glorifying Hoodbhoy because he went to MIT:

What's your stance on Aafia Siddiqui? Do you hold her in same esteem as Hoodbhoy? If you don't then it's pure hypocrisy...

Didn't realize Hoodbhoy was married to Khalid Sheik's nephew.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

For some posters who are taking offence anything i write and think they have the biggest BRAIN in this universe


1. I have read the book " I am Malala"
2. I have watched that disgraced fish market Show.( thanks to Mr Bhoy for the impressive start by accusation)


Now some people who havnt read the whole book and havnt seen the full show , i humbly request to do that first before coming and start debating like 2 year kids.



Just to make matters staright

1. I am NOT Taliban supporter , infact i hate them from core of my heart
2. I am not against Malala's Eductional ambitions either.


However i am aganist the way she is being handled by his father and caretaker.( conspiracy theorist call them CIA).

The Book has way too much generalisation, though i believe the conditons in Pakistan are different in every province, city etc etc.

The book makes you feel that you are living in 5th Century and Pakistanies wear branches of trees and have never seen a civilised world.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Rushdie wrote that stuff in Pakistan? He wrote it in Britain where he IS allowed to write it. Don't tell people of other countries what they can and cannot do.

The logic is absurd, Rushdie isn't a Pakistani, he isn't even a Muslim - then why are we applying our laws on him?

Malala and her father are absolutely right. You people make Muslims look like illiterate cavemen who can't even string a few sentences together in rebuttal. Instead you start burning down Gas Stations and Mcdonalds.

And yet you bring up the Holocaust. Touchy subject, yes. But if I, as a Pakistani, sitting in Pakistan, write something crude and crass about it, will the Europeans put a fatwa on me? Will they start burning tires on the road? Will they come to Pakistan to assassinate me? NO. They will, as all literate men do, rip me apart using the power of the pen. Using wisdom, knowledge, using akal. Your example makes no sense.
-----------------------------------------

What part about this is wrong? That they challenge muslims to use their wisdom to fight back? What benefit does assassinating people have? Has it shut them up? What do you think holds more power? Slitting our own wrist by burning down restaurants or using our intelligence, a gift Allah has given us? God forbid we ever do that.

So by your definition i can use any F words for your family because i have the privilllage ?

Your post make me feel sick , such shameful and disgraceful words

If you call yourself muslim , you should be ashamed of your presence on this earth .
If you are not, then dont worry

 

[coca-cola]

So by your definition i can use any F words for your family because i have the privilllage ?

Your post make me feel sick , such shameful and disgraceful words

If you call yourself muslim , you should be ashamed of your presence on this earth .
If you are not, then dont worry

I am ashamed of my presence on earth because I live among people who would rather burn down restaurants and kill one another rather than using the gift of intelligence nature has given them.

And knock yourself out. Use as many abuses as you want. I could care less about your opinion. In fact go crazy: use abuses from 2-3 different languages.

Also, what is your solution? So apparently using one's akal and wisdom and the power of the pen is out of the question? you provided no constructive criticism on why what I said was wrong... but what else is to be expected.... you guys always have to invoke religion and put others down, that seems to be the only line of defense.

What would you do?

 

[DW44]

Pretty sure that you didnt leave it. They must have kicked you. No one leaves that university.

Nope it hasnt. Maybe you need to get down from your high horse.

People who get kicked out don't generally end up in world-top-100(at the time) schools.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

I am ashamed of my presence on earth because I live among people who would rather burn down restaurants and kill one another rather than using the gift of intelligence nature has given them.

And knock yourself out. Use as many abuses as you want. I could care less about your opinion. In fact go crazy: use abuses from 2-3 different languages.

Also, what is your solution? So apparently using one's akal and wisdom and the power of the pen is out of the question? you provided no constructive criticism on why what I said was wrong... but what else is to be expected.... you guys always have to invoke religion and put others down, that seems to be the only line of defense.

What would you do?

You havent answer my question in post 191# and have started to cry like a 2 year .

Read post 190# first to get my viewpoint

 

[coca-cola]

You havent answer my question in post 191# and have started to cry like a 2 year .

Read post 190# first to get my viewpoint

You posted one question, and I'm sure I answered it quite clearly.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

You posted one question, and I'm sure I answered it quite clearly.

OK, but i am not going to use the words you suggested for your family.

I am sure you would feel really bad if i did and infact might take an offence.



There is a difference in Freedom of Speech and abuse

 

[coca-cola]

OK, but i am not going to use the words you suggested for your family.

I am sure you would feel really bad if i did and infact might take an offence.



There is a difference in Freedom of Speech and abuse

I'd feel bad, most definitely, but if "feeling bad" was any reason for another person to stop talking, the world would be in perpetual silence.

And what would my options be? I attack you? I kill you? I burn down a restaurant?
- Would that make what you said go away?
- Would that change your opinion?
- What would it really accomplish?

But if I sat down with you, expressed my feelings, put out constructive criticism, I think I'd have a much better chance at changing your views.

Think about it.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

I'd feel bad, most definitely, but if "feeling bad" was any reason for another person to stop talking, the world would be in perpetual silence.

And what would my options be?

I attack you? No of course NOT
I kill you?No of course NOT

I burn down a restaurant? No of course NOT

- Would that make what you said go away? No of course NOT ,
- Would that change your opinion?No of course NOT
- What would it really accomplish?No of course NOT

But if I sat down with you, expressed my feelings, put out constructive criticism, I think I'd have a much better chance at changing your views.
Think about it.

I have only problem you justifying an abuse of Prophet PBUH and calling it freedom of speech. THINK about it

 

[coca-cola]

I have only problem you justifying an abuse of Prophet PBUH and calling it freedom of speech. THINK about it

Justifying? I don't think I justified anything.

It is freedom of speech however. And there's not much you can do about it, either. It's here to stay.

The question is, how will we respond? With violence or with wisdom? You still haven't answered that question.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Justifying? I don't think I justified anything.

It is freedom of speech however. And there's not much you can do about it, either. It's here to stay.

The question is, how will we respond? With violence or with wisdom? You still haven't answered that question.

Wisdom to start with , but if wisdom is defined as - you go and justify the abuse of our Prophet them i am sorry i don't agree to that.

there should be dialogue and making the other party realise that you have been deeply hurt

and i don't believe in the violence until the last effort is made

 

[Nunna]

I am ashamed of my presence on earth because I live among people who would rather burn down restaurants and kill one another rather than using the gift of intelligence nature has given them.

And knock yourself out. Use as many abuses as you want. I could care less about your opinion. In fact go crazy: use abuses from 2-3 different languages.

Also, what is your solution? So apparently using one's akal and wisdom and the power of the pen is out of the question? you provided no constructive criticism on why what I said was wrong... but what else is to be expected.... you guys always have to invoke religion and put others down, that seems to be the only line of defense.

What would you do?

I have not read all of your posts, i just started reading from page3. I have figured that you are very liberal of type person, Maybe an other word to describe you, please don't mind, just trying generalize would be atheist sod of believe. That is why we have problem understanding each others point of view. Because we do not have common ground.
Most of us would agree with my point of view.
The things you trying to convey are very similar to atheists.
Because, Allah Maaf kuray, if we were atheists, If we didn't had principles of religion and then cultural values then i would be saying the same thing that you saying.
I am bonded by those values therefore, I found that stuff awkward.
cause you feel under freedom of speech umbrella you can criticize,make fun of anyone any thing, even region. But, I feel there is some sod of responsibility with freedom of speech.
you don't say stuff to hurt million of people's believe.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Isnt this somewhat true?



http://dawn.com/news/1051796/pakistan-second-worst-country-in-gender-equality-wef

Though the report is highly arguable but lets for the argument sake i believe in this report .


The way Malala Portrayed ( or whoever feeded her)Pakistan in the book is not right.

Its way too much generalisation as if the women have no rights in Pakistan ?

We have doctors, engineers , fighter pilots etc and a huge teaching force as women.
I am not saying its all green but its definitely not red either for women

 

[coca-cola]

I have not read all of your posts, i just started reading from page3. I have figured that you are very liberal of type person, Maybe an other word to describe you, please don't mind, just trying generalize would be atheist sod of believe. That is why we have problem understanding each others point of view. Because we do not have common ground.
Most of us would agree with my point of view.
The things you trying to convey are very similar to atheists.
Because, Allah Maaf kuray, if we were atheists, If we didn't had principles of religion and then cultural values then i would be saying the same thing that you saying.
I am bonded by those values therefore, I found that stuff awkward.
cause you feel under freedom of speech umbrella you can criticize,make fun of anyone any thing, even region. But, I feel there is some sod of responsibility with freedom of speech.
you don't say stuff to hurt million of people's believe.

Again, there is no solution offered here.

That man is a free man living in another sovereign nation. There is nothing you can do to silence him unless you are one of those people who want to use violence.

If violence is out of the picture than all you have is the power of words.

Think about it. Just because we aren't burning down restaurants and stabbing people does not mean we condone his views.

The only practical solution is using words and wisdom.

If you have any other solution please come out and say it.

 

[saeedhk]

Though the report is highly arguable but lets for the argument sake i believe in this report .


The way Malala Portrayed ( or whoever feeded her)Pakistan in the book is not right.

Its way too much generalisation as if the women have no rights in Pakistan ?

We have doctors, engineers , fighter pilots etc and a huge teaching force as women.
I am not saying its all green but its definitely not red either for women

We do have a problem ,right?The problem may not be to such an extent as Malala's book suggest,but maybe slightly less.You just have to look at the female literacy rate to know the story and the report which I mentioned.I must say that the situation is improving slowly.

We have people stabbing women who go shopping and nutcases executing female NGO workers and medical workers.This would make anyone feel women do not have rights in Pakistan.

 

[saadibaba]

On a different note, what sort of name is Orya? It's the language they speak in Orissa, right? Why name a child that?

And Maqbool Jaan sounds like a Punjabi village woman from the 1800s, or worse, a courtesan from the red light district in Agra.

Not that that diminishes his many "achievements" to date, like that award winning stint at Zarb-e-Momin. But I'm just curious.

Kinda like Omrao Jaan Ada....

Because Dawn isn't run by religious intolerant nutters who believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories which have been exposed time and time again with logical evidence but pigs have to fly first before your likes understand your ignorance.

Social media is now filled with demands to charge malala with blasphemy thanks to OREO Maqbool and his partner Ansar Abbasi. the Lanats and yahoodi labels on a 16 year old girl have been going on for a while. Matter of pride for Pakistan and Islam. You guys are so insecure that a paragraph in a book (which no way meant blasphemy) has threatened your religion.

Good reply.

 

[BudMarsh]

Though the report is highly arguable but lets for the argument sake i believe in this report .


The way Malala Portrayed ( or whoever feeded her)Pakistan in the book is not right.

Its way too much generalisation as if the women have no rights in Pakistan ?

We have doctors, engineers , fighter pilots etc and a huge teaching force as women.
I am not saying its all green but its definitely not red either for women

So you're living in Australia and most probably grew up in an urban city in Pakistan and you think you know better than somebody who grew up in Swat? And who actually is a woman herself.

The fact you bring up fighter pilots is quite pathetic. As though they make up an important part of our Air Force. They are only a handful of such females in the air force.

Read this:

http://www.unesco.org/education/efa/know_sharing/grassroots_stories/pakistan_2.shtml
or this:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/pakistan_pakistan_statistics.html

Female education stats are lower than the male by quite a margin. Not that the male rate is good anyway but this is not a non-issue by any means.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

So you're living in Australia and most probably grew up in an urban city in Pakistan and you think you know better than somebody who grew up in Swat? And who actually is a woman herself.

The fact you bring up fighter pilots is quite pathetic. As though they make up an important part of our Air Force. They are only a handful of such females in the air force.

Read this:

http://www.unesco.org/education/efa/know_sharing/grassroots_stories/pakistan_2.shtml
or this:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/pakistan_pakistan_statistics.html

Female education stats are lower than the male by quite a margin. Not that the male rate is good anyway but this is not a non-issue by any means.

Bother to tell where you live and NO i didnt grew up in urban area

 

[BudMarsh]

Wisdom to start with , but if wisdom is defined as - you go and justify the abuse of our Prophet them i am sorry i don't agree to that.

there should be dialogue and making the other party realise that you have been deeply hurt

and i don't believe in the violence until the last effort is made

And then its open season, right?

 

[BudMarsh]

Bother to tell where you live and NO i didnt grew up in urban area

I'm in the UAE, but born and raised in Islamabad/Bahawalpur. Lived in many other cities besides as my father was in the civil service so I know what I'm talking about. Away from the large cities there is definitely a need to raise awareness of the kind of issues Malala is raising.

 

[James]

Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi. Acha G, to yeh baat hai

You should thank liberals that tolerate your mindless, baseless opinions. Had we been like you and your kind, situation wouldn't be so pretty.
Fortunately liberals have tolerance and respect for other viewpoints. Even if we disagree. we do it respectfully by placing arguments with manners and logical reason. Not by putting a shotgun at the head and pulling the trigger for having a difference of opinion.

Tolerance tum jaisy logon mein khtum hogya hai.

I like quite a few posts in this thread, but this one is my favourite so far. Well said.

 

[coca-cola]

Wisdom to start with , but if wisdom is defined as - you go and justify the abuse of our Prophet them i am sorry i don't agree to that.

there should be dialogue and making the other party realise that you have been deeply hurt

and i don't believe in the violence until the last effort is made

The fact that you believe in any violence whatsoever is disturbing.

I see you agree with me - but don't want to own up to it for some reason. I haven't justified anything, by the way. I don't know where you got that from. Stop fabricating falsehood ijust to create differences in opinion.

I'm glad that you believe in dialogue.

 

[youboy]

Freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi. Acha G, to yeh baat hai

You should thank liberals that tolerate your mindless, baseless opinions. Had we been like you and your kind, situation wouldn't be so pretty.
Fortunately liberals have tolerance and respect for other viewpoints. Even if we disagree. we do it respectfully by placing arguments with manners and logical reason. Not by putting a shotgun at the head and pulling the trigger for having a difference of opinion.

Tolerance tum jaisy logon mein khtum hogya hai.

Coming back to the OP topic

Mr. Hoodhbhoy instead of having tolerance and respect of other viewpoints and disagreeing respectfully by placing his arguments with manners and logical reason started personal attack by calling other guests liars and they lack knowledge of English. That was not tolerant and doesnot represent how you explained liberals.

We have seen a lot of people representing liberals on media or print media only doing character assasination of the people who have different opinion.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Ansar Abbasi’s bizarre concerns about KP education dept’s ‘gay’ new logo

Ansar Abbasi continues to spread Filth of his mind.





<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Really dangerous if true. <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI">@ImranKhanPTI</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/SirajOfficial">@SirajOfficial</a> <a href="https://t.co/L0bJBWCgcB">https://t.co/L0bJBWCgcB</a></p>— Ansar Abbasi (@AnsarAAbbasi) <a href="https://twitter.com/AnsarAAbbasi/status/880326995539886080">June 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>





https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...ncerns-about-kp-education-depts-gay-new-logo/

 

[Heisenberg]

I can't believe what I read in this thread

 

[DW44]

I can't believe what I read in this thread

Pretty standard stuff for Orya Maqbool and Ansar Abassi.

 

[Heisenberg]

Pretty standard stuff for Orya Maqbool and Ansar Abassi.

Of course. I meant some of the posters..

 

[Nostalgic]

There were some real gems in this thread. Like where I was told, by a poster who openly admits to admiring Aziza K, that any man unable to fix a washing machine was "useless to women," and the "freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi," comment. All of which pales in comparison to the thread where Orya asked Pakistani women to emulate female dogs.

 

[Heisenberg]

There were some real gems in this thread. Like where I was told, by a poster who openly admits to admiring Aziza K, that any man unable to fix a washing machine was "useless to women," and the "freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi," comment. All of which pales in comparison to the thread where Orya asked Pakistani women to emulate female dogs.

Also equating denying of a genocide to having a negative opinion about a prophet.

 

[Pakpak]

There were some real gems in this thread. Like where I was told, by a poster who openly admits to admiring Aziza K, that any man unable to fix a washing machine was "useless to women," and the "freedom of expression ki aisi ki taisi," comment. All of which pales in comparison to the thread where Orya asked Pakistani women to emulate female dogs.

That 'aisi ki taisi'' guy himself lives in the West where he bashes secularism and freedom of speech, I mean the sheer hypocrisy is utterly laughable. Can you imagine secular and ''liberals'' being tolerated for their views on religion in a religious state, heck look at Pakistan now.

 

[Nostalgic]

That 'aisi ki taisi'' guy himself lives in the West where he bashes secularism and freedom of speech, I mean the sheer hypocrisy is utterly laughable. Can you imagine secular and ''liberals'' being tolerated for their views on religion in a religious state, heck look at Pakistan now.

It was so long ago, I forget who actually made the comment. Was it the Khalifa bro, who openly advocated a coup in Pakistan by HuT-affiliated officers, or was it the Aziza K fan who once boasted about a terrorist brother-in-law of his, or was it the die-hard Orya fan who used to resort to openly cursing people on the forum?

We were truly blessed, back in late 2013, as far as the variety of posters goes.

 

[Pakpak]

It was so long ago, I forget who actually made the comment. Was it the Khalifa bro, who openly advocated a coup in Pakistan by HuT-affiliated officers, or was it the Aziza K fan who once boasted about a terrorist brother-in-law of his, or was it the die-hard Orya fan who used to resort to openly cursing people on the forum?

We were truly blessed, back in late 2013, as far as the variety of posters goes.

It was KB, the one who liked Kobe Bryant ( )

Forget that, these people are so brainwashed its numbing. I have had friends, ex-friends now, with very secular parents and siblings yet themselves are so full of hate. One particular ''friend'' hated anything to do with Shias, worshipped the Saudis and this is a guy who's never ever met any Shia nor has ever been to Saudi Arabia and was born and raised himself in the States. I once confronted him on Facebook after hearing enough of his nonsense and I had the Wahabi brigade (some all the way from Saudi Arabia ) suddenly messaging me filth. Later I found out they were his Facebook ''friends'', more like online brainwashers, but oh well. I am glad I don't associate myself with such vermin anymore.

 

[KB]

It was KB, the one who liked Kobe Bryant ( )

But not to be confused with me!

 

[Nostalgic]

I was about to say it: one can't imagine two posters more dissimilar than KB24 and you, yet the usernames are so similar.

What does the K and the B in your username stand for?

 

[Pakpak]

But not to be confused with me!

Haha sorry

 

[KB]

I was about to say it: one can't imagine two posters more dissimilar than KB24 and you, yet the usernames are so similar.

What does the K and the B in your username stand for?

Yes, it was a cause of slight inconvenience to me that someone whose views I found deplorable happened to share a similar username to me.

As to my username, unfortunately I can make no great claim to ingenious thinking here: they represent merely my actual initials.

 

[saeedhk]

Orya Maqbool is petrified of Hassan Nisar. He never dares to confront Hassan Nisar. Watch this!