Does anybody seriously believe that Pakistan's short quicks can be effective in Australia?

[Junaids]

People seem to be getting carried away at the idea of Mohammad Musa and Naseem Shah being selected in the 16 man Pakistan squad for the World Test Championship Series in Australia.

But personally I think that it means that Pakistan has selected a 14 man squad plus 2 passengers.

Argument continues as to whether Musa is 5'7 or 5'9 tall. Naseem Shah is on record as being 5'10 tall.

And that means that there only hope is the pink ball greentop at Adelaide, because short fast bowlers almost always fail in Australia due to the different lengths required.

The most successful touring bowlers of 6 foot in height or less in Australia in the last 40 years have been:

Malcolm Marshall (5'11) - 45 wickets at 23.15, with a strike rate 8 worse than his worldwide career strike rate, and a bowling average 2.21 worse.

Dale Steyn (5'11) - 31 wickets at 28.77, with a strike rate 6.7 worse and a bowling average 5.82 worse than his career average.

Waqar Younis (6'0) - 14 wickets at an average of 40.50, with a strike rate 28.7 worse and an average 16.94 worse than his entire career.

Why did I include Waqar?

Marshall and especially Steyn had extensive experience in Australian (or South African) conditions and learned to adapt their length. Waqar never did.

I am baffled and bemused by the idea that Musa and Naseem might survive in Australia. I remember Waqar's first Aussie Test at the MCG: he was at least 10K faster than either of them at the time, but he simply didn't grasp which line and length was required.

Aussie batsmen have played against any number of random 140K bowlers in club and shield cricket. Musa and Naseem will present virtually no threat to them.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is different - he's already done well in Test in South Africa and is 8 inches taller.

I remember Trent Boult being belted all around the Gabba in Brisbane in 2015-16, and then at the WACA, only to do better in a pink ball greentop at Adelaide shortly after. I asked him what went wrong at Brisbane, and he replied "I'm about 8 inches too short and 20K too slow for that pitch."

I would be surprised if Pakistan's short quicks have any more success.

 

[pratiktc]

Only one of the new guys will be playing in a Test match as part of a 4 man attack+Ifthikar
Nobody should expect any wonders from them. If they can go below 3.25 economy and get some movement in air with new/semi new ball to nick out a batsman or 2 it will be a commendable performance

 

[moghul]

Musa is a bit too short and I'm not sure about his success in tests, in Australia or anywhere.

Naseem Shah is also not tall and I'm not expecting much from him as he is very young and inexperience but we don;t have anyone better than him waiting in line. So its a good investment to let Shah play in Australia.

 

[Danyaalr01]

They shouldn’t have gone for Musa yet, he doesn’t have any performances to back his selection. Sameen Gul does.

Musa is 5’9” and it is confirmed. He is just an inch shorter than Shadab who is 5’10” and I can confirm that as I have met him 2 or 3 times. Musa’s official height is also 5’10”. The reason he looks shorter is because of his build.

Naseem Shah has been to South Africa before so hopefully he knows somewhat the lengths he needs to bowl on these pitches. He should hopefully get the nod ahead of Musa as he has more control and has performed better.

 

[hitthestump]

No, but who cares?

I'd rather lose 2-0 and see 1 decent spell from Musa rather than take a bunch of TTF's with no future, be slightly more competitive and still lose 2-0 anyway.

 

[azimiqbal]

I think one of nasim or musa will play and I think I would pick musa due to his natural length.

 

[kingusama92]

Mohammad Abbas
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Naseem Shah/Mohammad Musa
Yasir Shah
Ifthikhar Ahmed

This will be the bowling order most likely, so only one of them is going to play and he'll be responsible for the third pacer role.

I'd say Waqar had a slightly different role. He even got to open the bowling in the Adelaide test with Wasim Akram (both innings). I don't see Naseem/Musa getting that kind of responsibility.

Most of the hard work is going to be done by Abbas and Afridi.

 

[Rayyman]

Mohammad Abbas
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Naseem Shah/Mohammad Musa
Yasir Shah
Ifthikhar Ahmed

This will be the bowling order most likely, so only one of them is going to play and he'll be responsible for the third pacer role.

I'd say Waqar had a slightly different role. He even got to open the bowling in the Adelaide test with Wasim Akram (both innings). I don't see Naseem/Musa getting that kind of responsibility.

Most of the hard work is going to be done by Abbas and Afridi.

Not sure how Iftikhar will play

Shan and Imam/Abid to open

Azhar is captain and will play at 3

Babar has been Pak's best bat

Asad scored a 100 last time at Gabba

Maybe over Haris or if Azhar opens.

 

[Savak]

Musa was selected for his pace and skiddy nature. He is short but he gets lift which has surprised batsmen. His selection was indeed a gamble

 

[Savak]

Abass and IK Jr will be doing the lengthy overs holding an end up bowling. Naseem and Musa will be the ones being used in short sharp bursts.

 

[kingusama92]

Not sure how Iftikhar will play

Shan and Imam/Abid to open

Azhar is captain and will play at 3

Babar has been Pak's best bat

Asad scored a 100 last time at Gabba

Maybe over Haris or if Azhar opens.

Yeah, I'm assuming Azhar will open.

If not, they're going to have to drop Yasir and include Kashif Bhatti as the all-rounder. Although I doubt they want their main spin option to be an all-rounder.

 

[The Viper]

Abass and IK Jr will be doing the lengthy overs holding an end up bowling. Naseem and Musa will be the ones being used in short sharp bursts.

Thats how they should be ideally used.

Shouldn't be over bowled, considering their inexperience.

 

[Junaids]

Abass and IK Jr will be doing the lengthy overs holding an end up bowling. Naseem and Musa will be the ones being used in short sharp bursts.

Well that's a major problem because both Mohammad Abbas and Imran Khan Sr are too short and too slow to succeed in Australia or South Africa.

Imran Khan Sr in Australia, 2016-17
27-4-111-2 (economy 4.11, in a Test - Amir was 3.45, Wahab was 3.11)
6-2-43-0 (economy 7.16, Wahab was 4.00)

Mohammad Abbas in identical conditions, in South Africa 2018-19
34-8-100-1 (SSA took 4-123 in the same innings by being taller and faster)
4-0-14-1
18-6-44-2 (Faheem Ashraf took 15-2-57-3)
18-3-73-1 (Faheem Ashraf took 14-3-42-3)

If the plan is for Mohammad Abbas and Imran Khan to do most of the bowling in Australia, they'd be better picking the 67 year old Prime Minister than the Imran Khan who they have selected.

 

[Junaids]

To sum up the "prior experience" upon which Misbah is depending:

Imran Khan has taken 2-154 in Australian conditions, at an average of 77.00.
Mohammad Abbas has taken 5-231 in South African conditions, at an average of 46.20.
Yasir Shah has taken 9-795 in 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa, at an average of 88.33.

The sad thing is that in Australia and South Africa:
Shadab Khan has taken 4-80 at an average of 20.00.
Faheem Ashraf has taken 6-99 at an average of 16.50.
Mohammad Amir has taken 25-914 at an average of 36.56.
Wahab Riaz has taken 11-400 at an average of 36.36.
Ehsan Adil has taken 2-54 at an average of 27.00 (the wickets of Graeme Smith and FAF du Plessis).

 

[Danyaalr01]

Abass and IK Jr will be doing the lengthy overs holding an end up bowling. Naseem and Musa will be the ones being used in short sharp bursts.

I hope Imran won’t play. He was smashed to oblivion last time. Abbas won’t do well I reckon.

What do you think about Shaheen. Many people seem to he forgetting him. Good height, good pace. He will be Paks best bowler imo.

 

[tyron_woodley]

People seem to be getting carried away at the idea of Mohammad Musa and Naseem Shah being selected in the 16 man Pakistan squad for the World Test Championship Series in Australia.

But personally I think that it means that Pakistan has selected a 14 man squad plus 2 passengers.

Argument continues as to whether Musa is 5'7 or 5'9 tall. Naseem Shah is on record as being 5'10 tall.

And that means that there only hope is the pink ball greentop at Adelaide, because short fast bowlers almost always fail in Australia due to the different lengths required.

The most successful touring bowlers of 6 foot in height or less in Australia in the last 40 years have been:

Malcolm Marshall (5'11) - 45 wickets at 23.15, with a strike rate 8 worse than his worldwide career strike rate, and a bowling average 2.21 worse.

Dale Steyn (5'11) - 31 wickets at 28.77, with a strike rate 6.7 worse and a bowling average 5.82 worse than his career average.

Waqar Younis (6'0) - 14 wickets at an average of 40.50, with a strike rate 28.7 worse and an average 16.94 worse than his entire career.

Why did I include Waqar?

Marshall and especially Steyn had extensive experience in Australian (or South African) conditions and learned to adapt their length. Waqar never did.

I am baffled and bemused by the idea that Musa and Naseem might survive in Australia. I remember Waqar's first Aussie Test at the MCG: he was at least 10K faster than either of them at the time, but he simply didn't grasp which line and length was required.

Aussie batsmen have played against any number of random 140K bowlers in club and shield cricket. Musa and Naseem will present virtually no threat to them.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is different - he's already done well in Test in South Africa and is 8 inches taller.

I remember Trent Boult being belted all around the Gabba in Brisbane in 2015-16, and then at the WACA, only to do better in a pink ball greentop at Adelaide shortly after. I asked him what went wrong at Brisbane, and he replied "I'm about 8 inches too short and 20K too slow for that pitch."

I would be surprised if Pakistan's short quicks have any more success.

what rubbish is this. bumrah shami are all barely 5'10. Both did exceptionally well in australia albeit both bowled real fast. 143 plus consistently for 4 straight matches.

As long as musa, naseem can bowl over 140 at full lengths it shouldn't be an issue at all. Pitch the ball up. Pakistan has the talent to beat australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

They shouldn’t have gone for Musa yet, he doesn’t have any performances to back his selection. Sameen Gul does.

Musa is 5’9” and it is confirmed. He is just an inch shorter than Shadab who is 5’10” and I can confirm that as I have met him 2 or 3 times. Musa’s official height is also 5’10”. The reason he looks shorter is because of his build.

Naseem Shah has been to South Africa before so hopefully he knows somewhat the lengths he needs to bowl on these pitches. He should hopefully get the nod ahead of Musa as he has more control and has performed better.

I have met shadab and believe me he is not 5'10. he is 5'8 at best. I am 181 cm (5.11) and I dwarfed him. The ones with their real heights listed are shoaib who is 5'11. babar is 5'7. wahab is a legit 6'2.
also amir is definitely not 6'1. he is exactly 5'11.

 

[Mean&Green]

I have met shadab and believe me he is not 5'10. he is 5'8 at best. I am 181 cm (5.11) and I dwarfed him. The ones with their real heights listed are shoaib who is 5'11. babar is 5'7. wahab is a legit 6'2.
also amir is definitely not 6'1. he is exactly 5'11.

Totally agree I met him at niagra falls lol and I’m 5”10 he was easily two inches shorter than me

 

[tyron_woodley]

Totally agree I met him at niagra falls lol and I’m 5”10 he was easily two inches shorter than me

Damn that means musa is 5-6. oh well. as long as he is good who cares.

 

[Savak]

It's not the length of your legs but the size of your heart and Naseem, Musa will make up for it with exactly that

 

[Mean&Green]

Damn that means musa is 5-6. oh well. as long as he is good who cares.

Height is over rated in cricket what did Muhammad irfan do nothing. Look at shami and bumrah both are like 5”9 but the best in the world right now if you are good you are good height won’t matter your hard work and ability will

 

[Mean&Green]

It's not the length of your legs but the size of your heart and Naseem, Musa will make up for it with exactly that

Exactly In Sha Allah

 

[Last Monetarist]

what rubbish is this. bumrah shami are all barely 5'10. Both did exceptionally well in australia albeit both bowled real fast. 143 plus consistently for 4 straight matches.

As long as musa, naseem can bowl over 140 at full lengths it shouldn't be an issue at all. Pitch the ball up. Pakistan has the talent to beat australia.

I agree. Darren Gough was just about 5'11 and had a better record in Australia than his overall career.

The likes of Musa and Naseem won't fail in Australia because they are too short, it's more likely because they aren't fit enough to bowl long spells on those hard pitches.

 

[HIC]

Bumrah is easily over 6 feet. He is like 6’2.

Shami agreed is around 5’9

 

[Savak]

Lol England took Steve Finn, Chris Tremmlet, Boyd Ranking for the 2013/14 Ashes. Lol, Finn completely lost the plot whereas the other two were horrible

 

[Danyaalr01]

It's not the length of your legs but the size of your heart and Naseem, Musa will make up for it with exactly that

Both are supposed to be very hard workers. I know Musa comes from a poor backround and wasn't allowed to play cricket by his Father, but continued to play and succeded. He knows the value of hard work. Same with Naseem.

 

[shah_1]

Bumrah is easily over 6 feet. He is like 6’2.

Shami agreed is around 5’9

Both are same height
5-10"

 

[Danyaalr01]

View attachment 96429

Both are same height
5-10"

Both are officially 1.78 meters tall.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Height is over rated in cricket what did Muhammad irfan do nothing. Look at shami and bumrah both are like 5”9 but the best in the world right now if you are good you are good height won’t matter your hard work and ability will

very true brother. hope you are right. Stamina, strength and ability to pitch the ball up matters more and these boys are capable of doing that. Let's wreck the Aussies.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Both are officially 1.78 meters tall.

bro shami is 5'8 or maybe 9 at best. he really isn't tall at all.

bumrah is a legit 5'10. proper 5'10. not short. not tall.

 

[shah_1]

Both are officially 1.78 meters tall.

Height is not the only thing that makes difference, proven by these two bowlers. It is the skillset that matters. They outbowled Australian tall bowlers

 

[tyron_woodley]

btw Australia's current best young bowler is jhye richardson who is tipped to replace starc or hazelwood potentially is only 5'10. he bowls like steyn.

 

[shah_1]

Kemar Roach is 5-8" and he has a test bowling average of 26 something

 

[Danyaalr01]

Height is not the only thing that makes difference, proven by these two bowlers. It is the skillset that matters. They outbowled Australian tall bowlers

I'm not saying height matters. Just stating confirming that they are the same height.

I believe that Naseem has the skillset to be successful, but I'm not sure about Musa. Musa isn't exactly a skiddy bowler though. He does bang it in.
Musa can sometimes spray it and be quite erratic. But the biggest positives about him are his pace, attitude and superman like stamina.

 

[Junaids]

Lol England took Steve Finn, Chris Tremmlet, Boyd Ranking for the 2013/14 Ashes. Lol, Finn completely lost the plot whereas the other two were horrible

And why did they do that?

Because in 2010-11, when Tremlett was bowling at 135K instead of 125K, his 6'7 height allowed him to take 17 wickets at 23.35 in Australia.

 

[Danyaalr01]

btw Australia's current best young bowler is jhye richardson who is tipped to replace starc or hazelwood potentially is only 5'10. he bowls like steyn.

Is he fit now, he dislocated his shoulder against Pak and that can sometimes have a longterm effect.

I remember him bowling really well against Sri Lanka last year or the year before last. He bowled some unplayable deliveries. I was quite impressed by him.

 

[Hawkeye]

It's always amusing to see some armchair experts give professional advice, without knowing all the context, details and without offering any proven alternatives either.

These are the best bowlers in Pakistan right now. Or have potential. They had to be taken. There are no Amirs, Wahabs or Asifs waiting in line to be picked.

We have no other quality bowling resources. Two of our best bowlers just quit. And no, Ehsan Adil is not quality.

Since people will never agree on a single thing, I'm sure you might have other favorites and claim they are much better. But there's no evidence for it and no reason to think you are better than Waqar who just worked with all these bowlers and assessed them.

People also conveniently forget that 90% of our attack is quite inexperienced. They do not have years of experience bowling in 5 day matches. Bowling in Tests require extreme stamina.

How do you know who was capable of fulfilling that requirement? You don't, Waqar does.

Height isn't the only factor. And most importantly, we DO NOT have the luxury of being able to pick an all 6+ ft bowling attack because we do not have such bowlers!

To be able to complement the inexperienced debutant attack, you do need other bowlers who can become your workhorses and take the burden off the young attack, give them breathing space, and we have those options too in the attack picked.

Overall, people might have their wishes, desires and fantasies. But we can only go with what we have. These are young quicks who need to be backed. Misbah and Waqar have made the right decision to back them and put them in front of the world.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It's always amusing to see some armchair experts give professional advice, without knowing all the context, details and without offering any proven alternatives either.

These are the best bowlers in Pakistan right now. Or have potential. They had to be taken. There are no Amirs, Wahabs or Asifs waiting in line to be picked.

We have no other quality bowling resources. Two of our best bowlers just quit. And no, Ehsan Adil is not quality.

Since people will never agree on a single thing, I'm sure you might have other favorites and claim they are much better. But there's no evidence for it and no reason to think you are better than Waqar who just worked with all these bowlers and assessed them.

People also conveniently forget that 90% of our attack is quite inexperienced. They do not have years of experience bowling in 5 day matches. Bowling in Tests require extreme stamina.

How do you know who was capable of fulfilling that requirement? You don't, Waqar does.

Height isn't the only factor. And most importantly, we DO NOT have the luxury of being able to pick an all 6+ ft bowling attack because we do not have such bowlers!

To be able to complement the inexperienced debutant attack, you do need other bowlers who can become your workhorses and take the burden off the young attack, give them breathing space, and we have those options too in the attack picked.

Overall, people might have their wishes, desires and fantasies. But we can only go with what we have. These are young quicks who need to be backed. Misbah and Waqar have made the right decision to back them and put them in front of the world.

Yep, the other alternatives were Rahat, Mir Hamza and Waqas Maqsood.

But their is Sameen Gul who is taller than 6'2" and bowls with good pace and accuracy and definitly should have been there ahead of Imran, who was smashed to oblivion on the last tour.

These young guys are the future of Pak cricket. And to be honest, Wahab wouldn't have done well at all. He got smashed last time as well and usually over does the short stuff.

 

[Titan24]

As few have mentioned didnt Shami and Bumrah bowled really well in Australia just recently? Both are under 6 feet.

While height is an advantage but skills along with consistency of lines and lengths is more important.

 

[Danyaalr01]

As few have mentioned didnt Shami and Bumrah bowled really well in Australia just recently? Both are under 6 feet.

While height is an advantage but skills along with consistency of lines and lengths is more important.

It's all about bowling the right lines and lengths. Pace gives a huge advantage too. Hitting the deck hard also is important and that is something that Musa and Naseem do. The reason Hasan Ali is finding it difficult is because he is a skiddy bowler and doesn't hit the length hard, this means he has an even lower margin of error.

 

[Junaids]

btw Australia's current best young bowler is jhye richardson who is tipped to replace starc or hazelwood potentially is only 5'10. he bowls like steyn.

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

 

[JaDed]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

Then don’t say that Aussie batsmen are exposed to 140 ks in Shield and can easily handle under 6 ft 140 k bowlers when in reality only Smith can and not anyone else

 

[Danyaalr01]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

From what I have seen of Naseem is that he gets very good lift on the dead pitches of Pakistan and on that U19 tour of SA. Let's hope Naseem can be one of those anomalies.

Abbas's bowling will be more of a concern, especially when the ball gets old. He doesn't get that lift and has no pace. I have a feeling his economy in the Gabba test could be 5.

 

[MMHS]

Just watching Imran Khan Sr. in a FC game. If WY had picked him after two days close look, then he must have some justifications, but I don’t see anything in his bowling to pick him in AUS tour .... and guy is definitely 6’1”+

I think, more than height, the length is extremely important in Australia. 70 years back RR Lindwall was the best bowler in Australia and he was below 6’. Even DK was 6’. I once heard Benaud explaining the key to success in Australia (he was Lindwall’s Captain for 5 years), and he was critical about hitting the length from where batsmen can’t leave on length. Aussies being groomed on back-foot will always enjoy batting if the ball is on waist height. It’s advantage to have height - obviously someone with 6’4” height and pace should do better than someone 6” shorter, if skill set & bowling intelligence is equally matched, but height isn’t every key to success.

Personally, I won’t have have picked Imran & both of the young pacers; but options are quite limited to be honest. After premature retirement of both sr. pacers, only other options left were Rahat, Adil & may be Sameen. Among young pacers, surprised that they didn’t even called Arshad, who is like 190cm+ and looked good, while for T20s, it was injustice not to call Amad.

Naseem & Musa are not likely to play, therefore it’ll be a great learning opportunities for them, bowling even in nets on those tracks is a baptism.

 

[Slim]

Bumrah is easily over 6 feet. He is like 6’2.

Shami agreed is around 5’9

Man, you lot are just weird. Bumrah is 5"9 or 5"10.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Mohammad Amir would have been terrific at Adelaide with the pink ball on a greentop but hopeless with a red ball at the Gabba.

My Gabba attack would be:

11 Shaheen Shah Afridi
10 Sameen Gul
9 Ehsan Adil
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

My greentop Adelaide attack would have been:

11 Mohammad Abbas
10 Ehsan Adil
9 Mohammad Amir
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

I would have said to Amir “does your red ball retirement include pink ball Tests on a greentop?”

And I think his eyes would have lit up!

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Mohammad Amir would have been terrific at Adelaide with the pink ball on a greentop but hopeless with a red ball at the Gabba.

My Gabba attack would be:

11 Shaheen Shah Afridi
10 Sameen Gul
9 Ehsan Adil
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

My greentop Adelaide attack would have been:

11 Mohammad Abbas
10 Ehsan Adil
9 Mohammad Amir
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

I would have said to Amir “does your red ball retirement include pink ball Tests on a greentop?”

And I think his eyes would have lit up!

Amir went wicketless in the last two tests against Australia in Australia in 2016/17 and was ineffective in the third test in 2009-10 as well

 

[tyron_woodley]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

make no mistake about it. india would have won regardless whether smith played or not. I did also played with 2 walking wickets like Rahul and vijay for the first 2 games. Kohli doesn't lose when he wins tosses.

ishant also is a far more improved bowler since 2016. His figures are far better and this new version would have troubled all the aussie batsmen anyway.

I live in Australia too bro. People like to assume that you have to bowl short in australia with good bouncer esque length but that's not true at all. Most expect the bowl to rise and forget to get the basics right. This was what kohli was quoted saying that pitching the ball up is more effective especially if you are on the shorter side. India apparently studied the wickets well and realized that pitching the ball up fuller makes it harder for the batsmen to play shots as Australians are generally used to playing pull shots using their backfoot.

So I would say the Pakistani young stud bowlers are going to be very effective as long as they pitch the ball up.

On a side note I wish sameen gul was picked. He bowls like hazelwood and would suit these conditions perfectly.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Then don’t say that Aussie batsmen are exposed to 140 ks in Shield and can easily handle under 6 ft 140 k bowlers when in reality only Smith can and not anyone else

They really can't and bro none of the aussie bowlers barring starc even bowl over 140 consistently. average speed for cummins is like 136-138 at best.
hazelwood is slightly slower.
Australian batsmen csnt play proper spin, can't play bouncers either especially from guys like bunrah who have that awkward bounce. They can't play swing either lol. But do not bowl short at anything below neck level because they will dispatch the ball into the stands. Like shoaib BHAIII said ' break their bones. hit them on the head. #phasssst #agggressive
lol.

 

[Rightarmfast]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

Too bad. How we wish Smith and Warner wouldnt play against Pakistan. The Pakistani bowlers will demolish Aussies in Australia in which case.

Australia also must do an overhaul of the team. Or just have Warner and Smith to play for Australia, a 2 member cricket team. Afterall, the others are totally worthless!

 

[BlueBeamer]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

This post is nothing but a salt mine. The fact that India absolutely thrashed Oz in their own den hasn't sit will with some people hence they need to find some lame excuses to justify their bias.

 

[Danyaalr01]

make no mistake about it. india would have won regardless whether smith played or not. I did also played with 2 walking wickets like Rahul and vijay for the first 2 games. Kohli doesn't lose when he wins tosses.

ishant also is a far more improved bowler since 2016. His figures are far better and this new version would have troubled all the aussie batsmen anyway.

I live in Australia too bro. People like to assume that you have to bowl short in australia with good bouncer esque length but that's not true at all. Most expect the bowl to rise and forget to get the basics right. This was what kohli was quoted saying that pitching the ball up is more effective especially if you are on the shorter side. India apparently studied the wickets well and realized that pitching the ball up fuller makes it harder for the batsmen to play shots as Australians are generally used to playing pull shots using their backfoot.

So I would say the Pakistani young stud bowlers are going to be very effective as long as they pitch the ball up.

On a side note I wish sameen gul was picked. He bowls like hazelwood and would suit these conditions perfectly.

People must remember that the pitch isn't just bouncy and fast when pitched short, it also bounces more at a fuller length which means it can sometimes be difficult to drive the ball and the batsmen have to drive on the up. They are better off bowling 4-5 full deliveries with 1 or 2 bouncers (proper head high bouncer, no half hearted stuff). A lot of the time a fuller length at the Gabba gets the same bounce as a full/good length ball in England. You can hit the top of off while bowling full and that can be difficult to play.

 

[Danyaalr01]

This post is nothing but a salt mine. The fact that India absolutely thrashed Oz in their own den hasn't sit will with some people hence they need to find some lame excuses to justify their bias.

I watched a bit of that series and India had their length perfect. It was full and they obvioulsy found a weakness amongst the Aussie batsmen. We will never know what the outome of the series would have been if Smith and Warner were there, so it's better not to discuss it.

India figured bowling full is very awkward for the batsmen, especially if they are lookig to go back, in which case the batsman can get in a tangle. You can hit the top of off while bowling full in Australia and it is harder to drive. This is what the Pak bowlers must keep in mind, especially Shaheen with the extra bounce he will get.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
First-class 20 36 2881 1430 88 8/44 10/83 16.25 2.97 32.7 2 5 1


These are the stats of Sameen Gul. Musa got the nod for the test squad ahead of him. Now he gets dropped from the domestic side. It's not like he's a trundler, the guy can bowl in the mid 140s and swing it.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Mohammad shami has two five fers in australia and he is 5 10 , average is 30 which is not bad.

In the end it all boils down to how good a bowler you are.

Shaheen shah is pretty tall and abbas is tall as well and knowing misbah the third fast bowler will be imran khan. So i really doubt the two youngster will even get a chance.

 

[Abdullah]

Off course it's a gamble.
If we can bat first we can get a score on the board at the gabba , and get out with a draw

Then anything can happen in the day night game ( if we drop Yasir and just play 4 quicks)

 

[Danyaalr01]

Mohammad shami has two five fers in australia and he is 5 10 , average is 30 which is not bad.

In the end it all boils down to how good a bowler you are.

Shaheen shah is pretty tall and abbas is tall as well and knowing misbah the third fast bowler will be imran khan. So i really doubt the two youngster will even get a chance.

Misbah has said that Naseem will play. Imran was selected as a back up for Abbas due to his fitness issues (a pretty poor replacement).

You can be the tallest and fastest bowler in the world but that doesn't mean you will do well in Australia. You might have an advantage, but that doesn't mean anything if you don't use it. It's all about bowling the right length.

Shami hit the right length in Australia and he is also a hit the deck bowler with good pace. If you are short (by fast bowling standards) you can compensate for that by hitting the deck hard (something Naseem and Musa do).

 

[Abdullah719]

Damn that means musa is 5-6. oh well. as long as he is good who cares.

No chance.

 

[Danyaalr01]

No chance.

People are really exaggerating how short Musa is. This pic shows he is only an inch shorter than Naseem (who is 5'10").

 

[Mercurial]

Long heels is the only solution I guess then.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Hadlee and Kapil weren't too tall, they did pretty well in Australia.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Then don’t say that Aussie batsmen are exposed to 140 ks in Shield and can easily handle under 6 ft 140 k bowlers when in reality only Smith can and not anyone else

Funny how he thinks Ishant of 2011-14 is the same as Ishant of now.

 

[Swashbuckler]

170 cm tall Agarkar ran through the greatest Aussie batting line up who were ahead in the game on a flat track, helped us seal victory in Adelaide 16 years back. That's right 170 cm tall .

Before that consistently shone Down Under and he was 5'11. Helped us defend 143 at MCG against Greg Chappell, Hughes, Border, Walters, Rod Marsh, despite carrying injury.

 

[Danyaalr01]

170 cm tall Agarkar ran through the greatest Aussie batting line up who were ahead in the game on a flat track, helped us seal victory in Adelaide 16 years back. That's right 170 cm tall .

Before that consistently shone Down Under and he was 5'11. Helped us defend 143 at MCG against Greg Chappell, Hughes, Border, Walters, Rod Marsh, despite carrying injury.

There we go, another example that length is the most important thing for a pacer in Australia, not height. Height may give you a slight advantage, but if you are short and hit the right length, you will still be successful.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

People seem to be getting carried away at the idea of Mohammad Musa and Naseem Shah being selected in the 16 man Pakistan squad for the World Test Championship Series in Australia.

But personally I think that it means that Pakistan has selected a 14 man squad plus 2 passengers.

Argument continues as to whether Musa is 5'7 or 5'9 tall. Naseem Shah is on record as being 5'10 tall.

And that means that there only hope is the pink ball greentop at Adelaide, because short fast bowlers almost always fail in Australia due to the different lengths required.

The most successful touring bowlers of 6 foot in height or less in Australia in the last 40 years have been:

Malcolm Marshall (5'11) - 45 wickets at 23.15, with a strike rate 8 worse than his worldwide career strike rate, and a bowling average 2.21 worse.

Dale Steyn (5'11) - 31 wickets at 28.77, with a strike rate 6.7 worse and a bowling average 5.82 worse than his career average.

Waqar Younis (6'0) - 14 wickets at an average of 40.50, with a strike rate 28.7 worse and an average 16.94 worse than his entire career.

Why did I include Waqar?

Marshall and especially Steyn had extensive experience in Australian (or South African) conditions and learned to adapt their length. Waqar never did.

I am baffled and bemused by the idea that Musa and Naseem might survive in Australia. I remember Waqar's first Aussie Test at the MCG: he was at least 10K faster than either of them at the time, but he simply didn't grasp which line and length was required.

Aussie batsmen have played against any number of random 140K bowlers in club and shield cricket. Musa and Naseem will present virtually no threat to them.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is different - he's already done well in Test in South Africa and is 8 inches taller.

I remember Trent Boult being belted all around the Gabba in Brisbane in 2015-16, and then at the WACA, only to do better in a pink ball greentop at Adelaide shortly after. I asked him what went wrong at Brisbane, and he replied "I'm about 8 inches too short and 20K too slow for that pitch."

I would be surprised if Pakistan's short quicks have any more success.

I dont think height should be the only parameter of succeeding in aus, if that was true guys like mo shami, jazz-boom woud'nt do so well...but they were pretty tough to deal with on our tour there in 2018-19. If height was the only parameter to do well in aus - i guess Mohd irfan - all 7 feet of him should be running thru sides for fun in his sleep.... i also remember Ajit agarkar who took a real bunch of wickets-i think in Adelaide 2003, he was'nt a giant either-short skiddy sort of bowler....it matters what lenghts u bowl and obviously th eline...thats same for any ground in the world....that apart as a long time admirer of you guys pace bowling, i am looking forward to seeing your new young guns on bouncy true aus surfaces....i also wonder why u guys dropped hasnain when he appeared to be quite pacy...overall pak bowling has to believe it has the capacity to take 20 wickets, and they can...good luck from india

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Mohammad Amir would have been terrific at Adelaide with the pink ball on a greentop but hopeless with a red ball at the Gabba.

My Gabba attack would be:

11 Shaheen Shah Afridi
10 Sameen Gul
9 Ehsan Adil
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

My greentop Adelaide attack would have been:

11 Mohammad Abbas
10 Ehsan Adil
9 Mohammad Amir
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan

I would have said to Amir “does your red ball retirement include pink ball Tests on a greentop?”

And I think his eyes would have lit up!

Can’t say about the top three (though must say it’s a bold call to drop Shaheen for Adelaide Test, just for the change in colour of ball); but other two are rubbish. The stats you are using here (of Shadab & Faheem) has very little significance after few games - by that logic greatest bowler ever to play in UK has to be Bob Massie (actually he still has a career average of 20 and 5.2 wickets per Test). Shadab will be bigger disaster in Australia than Yasir and his batting these days are also closer to Yasir than Afridi. Faheem is just.....

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I live in Australia, and I will explain what the issue with height is.

A tiny number of extremely skilled short (5'10 to 6'0) bowlers have made it as successful quicks here. Ryan Harris is the only one I can think of in the last 45 years - and he is 5'10.

The problem is how the red Kookaburra ball and the bouncy surfaces interface with one another.

You basically have 20 overs in which to take wickets while the red Kookaburra has some sort of seam on it. After that it won't swing and it won't seam, and the only way to get anybody out is to stifle them by bowling a full length on off-stump with the ball rising sharply off the pitch. Sooner or later they will get out slashing to the slip cordon.

The crucial thing is bowling a full length but getting sharp lift, so that the batsman is hesitant about going onto the front or back foot. And for that you need to be a minimum of 6'4 tall, or you need to be at least 6'2 but genuinely fast (as in over 145K).

Shorter, skiddy bowlers cannot really do this because to get the same lift they have to bowl much, much shorter, and that allows the batsman to simply go onto the back foot and to cut and pull them, or leave the ball.

The guys who always succeed in Australia are the likes of Garner, Ambrose, McGrath and Hazlewood. All of them bowl that full length but get sharp lift out of the pitch. They don't swing it, they barely seam it, they just bowl that tough length because they are a minimum of 6'5 tall.

Short bowlers find it much harder to find a length to tie the batsman down, and so the batsmen don't need to take the risks that they take against the taller ones.

Lastly, don't assume that because India won in Australia last year then short bowlers must be viable.

Bumrah is quick, and took 21 wickets at 17.00 against a very understrength Australia.

Ishant Sharma took 11 wickets at 23.81 but he is tall and overall has 31 wickets in Australia at 48.54, which tells you everything:

Ishant in 11 Tests in Australia: 31 wickets for 1505 at an average of 48.54.
Ishant in 3 Tests in Australia in 2018-19: 11 wickets for 262 runs at an average of 23.81
Ishant in the previous 3 tours of Australia: 20 wickets for 1243 runs at an average of 62.15.

That tells you everything: Australia was incredibly under-strength without Smith and Warner, and the Indian bowling figures are meaningless.

Ishant has improved as a bowler in last three years,why arent you taking that into account?

Jasprit Bumrah is a top quality bowler and he will prove it yet again in 2020 tour of australia.

Now to highlight the flaw in your stats:

Ishant sharma averages 34 in england

In 2018 tour of eng he averaged 24

In earlier tours he averages above 40

This tells us that he has improved and your extrapolation method doesnt work.

Now lets consider their stats in south africa.

In similar south african conditions:

Bumrah averages-25
Shami-24.
So your short height theory completely fails here,and your extrapolation method is totally wrong.

 

[happydavy]

Unless Warner has a 2019 Ashes like series, which seems improbable, Pakistan fast bowlers would have a hard time preventing 150/1 and 400/5 kinda scores at the end of 40 overs and 100 overs respectively.

 

[happydavy]

People seem to be getting carried away at the idea of Mohammad Musa and Naseem Shah being selected in the 16 man Pakistan squad for the World Test Championship Series in Australia.

But personally I think that it means that Pakistan has selected a 14 man squad plus 2 passengers.

Argument continues as to whether Musa is 5'7 or 5'9 tall. Naseem Shah is on record as being 5'10 tall.

And that means that there only hope is the pink ball greentop at Adelaide, because short fast bowlers almost always fail in Australia due to the different lengths required.

The most successful touring bowlers of 6 foot in height or less in Australia in the last 40 years have been:

Malcolm Marshall (5'11) - 45 wickets at 23.15, with a strike rate 8 worse than his worldwide career strike rate, and a bowling average 2.21 worse.

Dale Steyn (5'11) - 31 wickets at 28.77, with a strike rate 6.7 worse and a bowling average 5.82 worse than his career average.

Waqar Younis (6'0) - 14 wickets at an average of 40.50, with a strike rate 28.7 worse and an average 16.94 worse than his entire career.

Why did I include Waqar?

Marshall and especially Steyn had extensive experience in Australian (or South African) conditions and learned to adapt their length. Waqar never did.

I am baffled and bemused by the idea that Musa and Naseem might survive in Australia. I remember Waqar's first Aussie Test at the MCG: he was at least 10K faster than either of them at the time, but he simply didn't grasp which line and length was required.

Aussie batsmen have played against any number of random 140K bowlers in club and shield cricket. Musa and Naseem will present virtually no threat to them.

Shaheen Shah Afridi is different - he's already done well in Test in South Africa and is 8 inches taller.

I remember Trent Boult being belted all around the Gabba in Brisbane in 2015-16, and then at the WACA, only to do better in a pink ball greentop at Adelaide shortly after. I asked him what went wrong at Brisbane, and he replied "I'm about 8 inches too short and 20K too slow for that pitch."

I would be surprised if Pakistan's short quicks have any more success.

Random argument with no basis. The most successful bowler of 6 ft or less in Australia has been Kapil dev with 50+ wickets in 11 matches at an average of 24 and 5-fers, beat that!

 

[Danyaalr01]

I am baffled and bemused by the idea that Musa and Naseem might survive in Australia. I remember Waqar's first Aussie Test at the MCG: he was at least 10K faster than either of them at the time, but he simply didn't grasp which line and length was required.

This makes no sense. What has this got to do with height. If Waqar couldn't find the right are to bowl that doesn't have anything to do with height.

If Waqar couldn't find the right areas to bowl that doesn't mean these 2 won't.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

y

amir is finished as test bowler, these kids wont do any worse, i promise

 

[Titan24]

I guess trade off was 5-7 km less average pace with 4-6 inches more height with Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul. Pak management went with more pace.

 

[Savak]

You can't take tall bowlers with no ability just for the sake of it, they have to be very good as well

 

[cricketjoshila]

I may be bashed for this. But pal bowlers should watch videos of the Indian bowlers from the last tour.watch the length.

Short bowl is to be a surprise not the primary length.

SC bowlers bowl short of length and get hit. This is because they get excited seeing the hard bouncy pitches. Secondly they watch the aussie bowlers bowl short stuff at SC batsman.

 

[Titan24]

I may be bashed for this. But pal bowlers should watch videos of the Indian bowlers from the last tour.watch the length.

Short bowl is to be a surprise not the primary length.

SC bowlers bowl short of length and get hit. This is because they get excited seeing the hard bouncy pitches. Secondly they watch the aussie bowlers bowl short stuff at SC batsman.

Totally. Indian pacers were outstanding and Pak pacers should see the lengths they bowled. Though they didnt have to bowl to Smith but still that doesnt change the fact that same strategy cant be tried on him too. Indian pacers have been extremely accurate under Bharat Arun while I dont think Pak pacers can find the same consistency as with the exception of Abbas they are pretty young and new to the game.

Still if the focus on hitting good lines and lengths more often than not instead of getting carried away with bounce and pace and there might be a chance of some success.

 

[Hyperion66]

I may be bashed for this. But pal bowlers should watch videos of the Indian bowlers from the last tour.watch the length.

Why would you be bashed for saying truth as it is? But I don't think Pak bowlers can consistently hit the right length though, not saying they are unskilled or anything but too raw and underdeveloped to be that accurate, maybe Abbas can but then again he is too slow to make an impact on Aussie pitches, Shaheen albeit talented but lacks the patience and accuracy to be consistent a threat, Azhar should bowl him in short bursts, not sure if he can sustain longer spells.

That is what impressed me the most about our bowlers during last series, even after bowling 20+ overs they were consistently accurate without dropping pace one bit.

 

[Hyperion66]

Totally. Indian pacers were outstanding and Pak pacers should see the lengths they bowled. Though they didnt have to bowl to Smith but still that doesnt change the fact that same strategy cant be tried on him too. Indian pacers have been extremely accurate under Bharat Arun while I dont think Pak pacers can find the same consistency as with the exception of Abbas they are pretty young and new to the game.

Still if the focus on hitting good lines and lengths more often than not instead of getting carried away with bounce and pace and there might be a chance of some success.

Very well put.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Jazba
Daleri
Jaanbaazi
Badmashi

These are four elements that make a truly great fast bowler according to legendary Shoaib Akhtar.

If Mussa and the other short guy have these qualities then IA they will rock Aussie batting line up.

Never ever underestimate human spirit.

It is the heart that matters and not the size.

Remember when little Goliath beat the monster David.

Also in Ramayana, Kumbhkaran was defeated by Sri Ram.

In Mahabharat also, the huge Ghatotkach was defeated by Angraj Karan.

History is stands proof of bravery of small humans against giants.

Never forget that.

Bhaijaan

 

[Hawkeye]

Jazba
Daleri
Jaanbaazi
Badmashi

These are four elements that make a truly great fast bowler according to legendary Shoaib Akhtar.

If Mussa and the other short guy have these qualities then IA they will rock Aussie batting line up.

Never ever underestimate human spirit.

It is the heart that matters and not the size.

Remember when little Goliath beat the monster David.

Also in Ramayana, Kumbhkaran was defeated by Sri Ram.

In Mahabharat also, the huge Ghatotkach was defeated by Angraj Karan.

History is stands proof of bravery of small humans against giants.

Never forget that.

Bhaijaan

Classic FC is back! Well said and I see what you did there.

 

[aloo paratha]

Height is the most overrated aspect of bowling. Unless you're freakishly tall like Shaheen Afridi or Muhammad Irfan, it won't really make a difference to batsmen. And even with Muhammad Irfan, he is 7'1 but he has still had only a mediocre career, he is a tenth of the bowler Shami is while being almost a foot and a half taller.