Does anybody seriously believe that Pakistan's short quicks can be effective in Australia?

[Savak]

Height is the most overrated aspect of bowling. Unless you're freakishly tall like Shaheen Afridi or Muhammad Irfan, it won't really make a difference to batsmen. And even with Muhammad Irfan, he is 7'1 but he has still had only a mediocre career, he is a tenth of the bowler Shami is while being almost a foot and a half taller.

Irfan's problem has been fitness, but during his peak in 2013 he was very effective and devestating, but the injury he suffered in October 2013, he has always been injury prone since then and his pace has gone down therefore reducing his effectiveness.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Jazba
Daleri
Jaanbaazi
Badmashi

These are four elements that make a truly great fast bowler according to legendary Shoaib Akhtar.

If Mussa and the other short guy have these qualities then IA they will rock Aussie batting line up.

Never ever underestimate human spirit.

It is the heart that matters and not the size.

Remember when little Goliath beat the monster David.

Also in Ramayana, Kumbhkaran was defeated by Sri Ram.

In Mahabharat also, the huge Ghatotkach was defeated by Angraj Karan.

History is stands proof of bravery of small humans against giants.

Never forget that.

Bhaijaan

Other factors are OK,but
How can badmaashi help in taking wickets.?

 

[Hasan123]

Juanids thinks Faheem and Shadab will challenge Smith and Warner. ) )

 

[tyron_woodley]

Why would you be bashed for saying truth as it is? But I don't think Pak bowlers can consistently hit the right length though, not saying they are unskilled or anything but too raw and underdeveloped to be that accurate, maybe Abbas can but then again he is too slow to make an impact on Aussie pitches, Shaheen albeit talented but lacks the patience and accuracy to be consistent a threat, Azhar should bowl him in short bursts, not sure if he can sustain longer spells.

That is what impressed me the most about our bowlers during last series, even after bowling 20+ overs they were consistently accurate without dropping pace one bit.

that's cause the indian bowling attack is the best in the world and also the fittest by far. Not even a contest.

Pakistan bowling has elite top class talents but they are raw at the moment. They can explode though and I hope they do. indian and pakistam should always be a top 3 team.

 

[Junaids]

Juanids thinks Faheem and Shadab will challenge Smith and Warner. ) )

No.

I think:

1. They will score 100 runs per Test more than their replacements.

2. They will allow the strike fast bowlers like Shaheen Shah Afridi to bowl shorter, faster spells.

3. They will both be more effective as bowlers in Australia than Yasir Shah, who has already failed in 3 Tests in Australia and 2 Tests in South Africa.

 

[Danyaalr01]

No.

I think:

1. They will score 100 runs per Test more than their replacements.

2. They will allow the strike fast bowlers like Shaheen Shah Afridi to bowl shorter, faster spells.

3. They will both be more effective as bowlers in Australia than Yasir Shah, who has already failed in 3 Tests in Australia and 2 Tests in South Africa.

I agree with Shadab, he can bat well and be a 5th bowling option.

But why Faheem. He can't bat and will struggle against the short ball. I would rather play frontline pacer at 8 and Shadab at 7.

Shadab won't challenge Smith but he will allow the pacers some rest and he is actually quite good with the bat. He has scored 4 50s and all were in difficult conditions.

 

[Junaids]

This makes no sense. What has this got to do with height. If Waqar couldn't find the right are to bowl that doesn't have anything to do with height.

If Waqar couldn't find the right areas to bowl that doesn't mean these 2 won't.

This often happened to Waqar in Tests in Australia and South Africa.

He was too short to cope after the kookaburra ball aged.

Even in South Africa in 1998, where he had a good tour, he was devastating with the new ball and then hopeless for the next 60 overs.

I tell you, fast bowling in Australia is 50% height, 30% pace, 10% heart and 10% skill!

 

[tyron_woodley]

This often happened to Waqar in Tests in Australia and South Africa.

He was too short to cope after the kookaburra ball aged.

Even in South Africa in 1998, where he had a good tour, he was devastating with the new ball and then hopeless for the next 60 overs.

I tell you, fast bowling in Australia is 50% height, 30% pace, 10% heart and 10% skill!

more like 50% toss
20% pace and length
20% ability to play bouncer
10% power of will

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Same old Junaids and his obsession with tall fast bowlers

 

[Bhaijaan]

Other factors are OK,but
How can badmaashi help in taking wickets.?

Badmashi is important.

When Shabby came KKR and was bowling to ABD. Dada asked Shabby oye Shabby ohde maar ek mathe te paade ehnu lamba.

That's what Badmashi is.

When you are inside the squared circle you must own that space like Goldberg.

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

Most difficult task will be putting pressure in from both ends. Not too concerned about height of bowlers as long as they are bowling with good average speed in consistent areas.

With true bounce on offer, lot of opposition bowlers get carried away in excitement. Aus players are quite use to playing short pitch stuff. Planning is not that hard, its the execution which matters.

 

[big_gamer007]

Jazba
Daleri
Jaanbaazi
Badmashi

These are four elements that make a truly great fast bowler according to legendary Shoaib Akhtar.

If Mussa and the other short guy have these qualities then IA they will rock Aussie batting line up.

Never ever underestimate human spirit.

It is the heart that matters and not the size.

Remember when little Goliath beat the monster David.

Also in Ramayana, Kumbhkaran was defeated by Sri Ram.

In Mahabharat also, the huge Ghatotkach was defeated by Angraj Karan.

History is stands proof of bravery of small humans against giants.

Never forget that.

Bhaijaan

Great post, agree with it 100% .
Badmaashi is the most important quality of any top fast bowler. If you don't have badmashi, you can never reach the elite club.

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

Badmashi is important.

When Shabby came KKR and was bowling to ABD. Dada asked Shabby oye Shabby ohde maar ek mathe te paade ehnu lamba.

That's what Badmashi is.

When you are inside the squared circle you must own that space like Goldberg.

Shabby is a free spirit, he can do anything. Saurav speaks pretty good punjabi! Paade ehnu lamba

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I may be bashed for this. But pal bowlers should watch videos of the Indian bowlers from the last tour.watch the length.

Short bowl is to be a surprise not the primary length.

SC bowlers bowl short of length and get hit. This is because they get excited seeing the hard bouncy pitches. Secondly they watch the aussie bowlers bowl short stuff at SC batsman.

The one time your post makes sense you say you'll get bashed

Frankly speaking, I agree. Especially the part about bowling too short, too often.

 

[Hasan123]

No.

I think:

1. They will score 100 runs per Test more than their replacements.

2. They will allow the strike fast bowlers like Shaheen Shah Afridi to bowl shorter, faster spells.

3. They will both be more effective as bowlers in Australia than Yasir Shah, who has already failed in 3 Tests in Australia and 2 Tests in South Africa.

Faheem has a ridiculous amount of ducks in his short career and you think he will score over 50?

Being better than Yasir in Australia is not difficult. But trust me if Shadab played in the test series he would be hammered as he has no accuracy in his bowling.

 

[MenInG]

The height argument.

Musa and Abbas not that far off in height.

Naseem and SSA also not that huge a difference.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SOmetimes unknown bowlers can make quiet an impact than seasoned bowles. Dean Headley, Agarkar, Irfan who all helped win a test match in Australia.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The height argument.

Musa and Abbas not that far off in height.

Naseem and SSA also not that huge a difference.

Not a good picture to judge height. End of yesterday's T20, Finch shook hands with Musa and Finch is at best 5'9" . Musa was atleast 1-2 inches shorter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Height is the most overrated aspect of bowling. Unless you're freakishly tall like Shaheen Afridi or Muhammad Irfan, it won't really make a difference to batsmen. And even with Muhammad Irfan, he is 7'1 but he has still had only a mediocre career, he is a tenth of the bowler Shami is while being almost a foot and a half taller.

Irfan's height was actually his biggest asset so not sure how you are making your point by using him as an example. His problems were fitness first and foremost, and lack of control due to being a relative latecomer to international cricket. Other than that, when he was in good shape he was almost unplayable due to his height.

 

[aloo paratha]

Irfan's height was actually his biggest asset so not sure how you are making your point by using him as an example. His problems were fitness first and foremost, and lack of control due to being a relative latecomer to international cricket. Other than that, when he was in good shape he was almost unplayable due to his height.

I literally said unless you're freakishly tall, it doesn't make that much of a difference. Even with that height though, if you're not landing the ball in the right area you're not gonna do well, we saw that this week with Irfan in Australia.

My point was that Musa or any other bowler being 6' instead of 5'9 would not make as much of a difference as people here think it would; There are many other factors to bowling as well, such as being able to get the ball to swing and seam, bowling quick, and most importantly being consistent in terms of line and length.

 

[Junaids]

The height argument.

Musa and Abbas not that far off in height.

Naseem and SSA also not that huge a difference.

The significance of height is being able to strangle the scoring rate in overs 20-80 and make the batsman play risky shots outside off-stump.

I’ve written before about the argument that Tim Southee - who is 6’4 - was the bare minimum height to get away with bowling slower than 140K at Brisbane.

Even Abbas is very much under the spotlight now. The conventional logic is that you bowl a tall Hazlewood at one end continuously at Brisbane - but Shaheen Shah Afridi appears to be the only tall quick selected.

Pakistan are going to be back to their 2016-17 nightmare. Misbah will only field three quicks and Yasir will get hammered at the other end.

Requiring Abbas, SSA and Imran to bowl longer, slower spells with shorter breaks between overs.

At Brisbane you’d think that Australia will score 500+ against such an unsuited attack for the conditions.

 

[Danyaalr01]

The height argument.

Musa and Abbas not that far off in height.

Naseem and SSA also not that huge a difference.

Looks like Naseem Shah grew or something. The advantage of being 16 years old.

Another thing that can make a difference is arm length. Arm length can make up for lack of height. Another thing is your front foot. If the front foot is braced then you are standing tall and making full use of your height, also a braceb front leg allows you to ball faster. Naseem Shah has a perfectly braced front leg. Mohammad Hasnain has a very bent front knee and that takes away height and pace, so the release points of the 2 are similar. I'm average height but have long arms so my release point is higher and long arms can sometimes help you bowl quicker.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Looks like Naseem Shah grew or something. The advantage of being 16 years old.

Another thing that can make a difference is arm length. Arm length can make up for lack of height. Another thing is your front foot. If the front foot is braced then you are standing tall and making full use of your height, also a braceb front leg allows you to ball faster. Naseem Shah has a perfectly braced front leg. Mohammad Hasnain has a very bent front knee and that takes away height and pace, so the release points of the 2 are similar. I'm average height but have long arms so my release point is higher and long arms can sometimes help you bowl quicker.

Isn't arm length proportional to height?

Braced leg point is right though, many bowlers overlook this and lose the potential to gain extra pace.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Isn't arm length proportional to height?

Braced leg point is right though, many bowlers overlook this and lose the potential to gain extra pace.

The arm span is supposed to be the same as the height of the person, but this can vary slightly. A large difference is a cause for concern. Teenagers are more likely to have a longer arm span than height as limbs tend to grow before or faster than the torso, eventually the torso catches up.

If Hasnain can fix his knee at the crease (I have never seen anyone with a knee as bent as Hasnain) then he can gain pace. It will also reduce the likelihood of an injury to the knees, hips and back.

 

[Danyaalr01]

The significance of height is being able to strangle the scoring rate in overs 20-80 and make the batsman play risky shots outside off-stump.

I’ve written before about the argument that Tim Southee - who is 6’4 - was the bare minimum height to get away with bowling slower than 140K at Brisbane.

Even Abbas is very much under the spotlight now. The conventional logic is that you bowl a tall Hazlewood at one end continuously at Brisbane - but Shaheen Shah Afridi appears to be the only tall quick selected.

Pakistan are going to be back to their 2016-17 nightmare. Misbah will only field three quicks and Yasir will get hammered at the other end.

Requiring Abbas, SSA and Imran to bowl longer, slower spells with shorter breaks between overs.

At Brisbane you’d think that Australia will score 500+ against such an unsuited attack for the conditions.

What about Jhye Richardson. He is only 5'9" and is based in Western Austrlia, but he is very successful. He isn't quick either. Yes he can crank it up to 145 kph, but he operates around the mid to high 130s, and has admitted slowing it down has worked for him.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I literally said unless you're freakishly tall, it doesn't make that much of a difference. Even with that height though, if you're not landing the ball in the right area you're not gonna do well, we saw that this week with Irfan in Australia.

My point was that Musa or any other bowler being 6' instead of 5'9 would not make as much of a difference as people here think it would; There are many other factors to bowling as well, such as being able to get the ball to swing and seam, bowling quick, and most importantly being consistent in terms of line and length.

I watched Musa in the PSL last season, and he really only had pace as a quality, and even then it was not express. So yes, I suppose a particularly skilled 5'9 bowler could produce wickets, but Pakistani pace bowlers don't usually excel at swing or seam. I think Musa would definitely be more of a threat if he was taller, he would get slightly more bounce for the edges if nothing else.

 

[Danyaalr01]

I watched Musa in the PSL last season, and he really only had pace as a quality, and even then it was not express. So yes, I suppose a particularly skilled 5'9 bowler could produce wickets, but Pakistani pace bowlers don't usually excel at swing or seam. I think Musa would definitely be more of a threat if he was taller, he would get slightly more bounce for the edges if nothing else.

Musa hasn't really impressed at domestic. But Naseem has and that is because he has pace, he is more accurate and swings the ball. Jhye Richardson is the same height as Naseem and is based in Western Australia. He is very successful there and that is due to swing and accuracy, if Naseem can put those two together along with pace, he can do very well.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Looks like Naseem has grew by a couple of inch.

 

[Junaids]

I have come to the conclusion that Naseem Shah is just tall enough that with a lot of hard work he has the potential to be an exceptional Test cricketer.

This tour is probably too soon, but he is a special talent, who reminds me of the young Waqar emerging in late 1989 and being taken straight to Australia.

Musa is clearly never going to be a Test cricketer. His only hope is to learn tricks and become a T20 specialist.

 

[Junaids]

Looks like Naseem has grew by a couple of inch.

If his bones haven’t fused yet I’d be giving him the same growth hormone injections that Barcelona gave Messi.

If they can get 2 more inches onto Naseem Shah then you have a truly exceptional prospect.

 

[King_Kohli]

I think Musa and Shami are almost same height

 

[Bhaijaan]

[MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION]

Brother you were so true as always.

A genius.

Junny bro forever

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION]

Brother you were so true as always.

A genius.

Junny bro forever

It just baffles me.

Everybody says that Misbah is obsessed with cricket.

So how come he doesn’t know that at this ground you need tall fast or fast-medium bowlers to slow the scoring rate and build pressure?

Shaheen Shah has been perfect. But he needed Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul to build the same pressure at the other end.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It just baffles me.

Everybody says that Misbah is obsessed with cricket.

So how come he doesn’t know that at this ground you need tall fast or fast-medium bowlers to slow the scoring rate and build pressure?

Shaheen Shah has been perfect. But he needed Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul to build the same pressure at the other end.

Naseem has looked the best pacer today though, along with Shaheen. Imran is as expected very very very very poor.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION]

Brother you were so true as always.

A genius.

Junny bro forever

Naseem has looked the best pacer today though, along with Shaheen. Imran is as expected very very very very poor.

I don’t have a problem picking Naseem at Brisbane so long as there are three other quicks taller than 6’3 in the attack to give him some scoreboard pressure to operate within.

 

[Markhor]

This team management either picks well past their prime 30+ seniors or unproven teenagers with little in between.

When you already have young Shaheen, why throw in a 17 year old into the lion's den at the Gabba vs Warner and co, days after he's lost his mother, when we had more seasoned alternatives like Sameen Gul who has performed on flat wickets in domestic cricket ?

And I don't even need to comment on the stupidity of recalling Imran Khan. There's ZERO logic in picking a 32 year old (or older) seamer harmlessly chugging away at 125-130kph on these hard Australian wickets and with the nonswinging Kookaburra, who failed the last time we toured and was having a mediocre domestic season.

In professional sports, there is no substitute for planning, but Pakistan still relies on desperate Hail Mary selections and throwing enough mud against a wall praying something sticks.

 

[Junaids]

Shaheen 6 maiden overs out of 28.

The rest of the attack 5 maiden overs out of 99.

I take absolutely no satisfaction about being proven correct.

At Brisbane it’s tall fast or fast-medium bowlers and nothing else.

Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul should be out there. Just for Brisbane.

 

[Junaids]

Same again.

Shaheen Shah keeps the run rate in check and then Abbas and Musa are too short to keep up the pressure.

Seriously, I can’t believe I’m writing this, but Rahat Ali would have been a huge improvement.

 

[Kashmirilion]

I hate to say this but [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you have been right all along. Your knowledge of test cricket especially in aus, is unappreciated on this forum.

 

[MMHS]

Same again.

Shaheen Shah keeps the run rate in check and then Abbas and Musa are too short to keep up the pressure.

Seriously, I can’t believe I’m writing this, but Rahat Ali would have been a huge improvement.

To be honest, I do agree with you partially that is height is important, but that’s not only factor here. Obviously, a 6’4” guy with same skill set should do better than someone 6 inches shorter, no disconnect there.

But, here Musa is struggling and Shaheen isn’t (though, at the end he took two tailenders, after Aussies crossed 500 at Gabba - I believe, containment isn’t something you should look from your lead pacer), because their skill set is different. Musa is the latest product of the hype brigade in PAK cricket (I call it “Kambakht Talunt”... I’ll tell you the meaning some days) with unrealistic expectations- guy was born as 5-6 years old ... and possess a FC stats of 17 wickets at 38 with economy of 4. But, that doesn’t tell full story - 3 of his his 7 FC games were played last year, when PAK domestic wickets were mine fields and he took 12 wickets at 24. This year, on wickets more common to other parts of world, he has 5 wickets in 4 games at like 70 with an economy of 4.2 and SR of almost 100 ...... I guess you got the idea.

Had he been 6’4”, he would have definitely been better; but as good as Shaheen.... or other way, had Shaheen been 5’6”, would he had been as such like Musa - I highly doubt both.

This was a selection blunder, which didn’t sound well when I mentioned it - but, I guess, scratching the bottom of barrel is indeed hurting fingernails now.

 

[JibranAnsari]

To be honest, I do agree with you partially that is height is important, but that’s not only factor here. Obviously, a 6’4” guy with same skill set should do better than someone 6 inches shorter, no disconnect there.

But, here Musa is struggling and Shaheen isn’t (though, at the end he took two tailenders, after Aussies crossed 500 at Gabba - I believe, containment isn’t something you should look from your lead pacer), because their skill set is different. Musa is the latest product of the hype brigade in PAK cricket (I call it “Kambakht Talunt”... I’ll tell you the meaning some days) with unrealistic expectations- guy was born as 5-6 years old ... and possess a FC stats of 17 wickets at 38 with economy of 4. But, that doesn’t tell full story - 3 of his his 7 FC games were played last year, when PAK domestic wickets were mine fields and he took 12 wickets at 24. This year, on wickets more common to other parts of world, he has 5 wickets in 4 games at like 70 with an economy of 4.2 and SR of almost 100 ...... I guess you got the idea.

Had he been 6’4”, he would have definitely been better; but as good as Shaheen.... or other way, had Shaheen been 5’6”, would he had been as such like Musa - I highly doubt both.

This was a selection blunder, which didn’t sound well when I mentioned it - but, I guess, scratching the bottom of barrel is indeed hurting fingernails now.

Musa hasn't been hyped up this much , misbah trying to be Imran khan now. Trying to pick up random guys like Imran khan Jr and musa khan , like in this test he tried another one of his genius by resting naseem shah in a day night test. Naseem shah could have more chances of picking wickets under light but misbah is in destructive experimental mode.

 

[MMHS]

Musa hasn't been hyped up this much , misbah trying to be Imran khan now. Trying to pick up random guys like Imran khan Jr and musa khan , like in this test he tried another one of his genius by resting naseem shah in a day night test. Naseem shah could have more chances of picking wickets under light but misbah is in destructive experimental mode.

Naseem isn’t fit, might be carrying long term injury ... though I don’t know why team management is playing hush hush here - they kept him on field for whole day at Gabba, but didn’t use him!!!!! I hope he takes field against SRL.

May not be by you, or you might have missed the fun, try the Musa Khan thread, you’ll know better about the expectations.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

To be honest, I do agree with you partially that is height is important, but that’s not only factor here. Obviously, a 6’4” guy with same skill set should do better than someone 6 inches shorter, no disconnect there.

But, here Musa is struggling and Shaheen isn’t (though, at the end he took two tailenders, after Aussies crossed 500 at Gabba - I believe, containment isn’t something you should look from your lead pacer), because their skill set is different. Musa is the latest product of the hype brigade in PAK cricket (I call it “Kambakht Talunt”... I’ll tell you the meaning some days) with unrealistic expectations- guy was born as 5-6 years old ... and possess a FC stats of 17 wickets at 38 with economy of 4. But, that doesn’t tell full story - 3 of his his 7 FC games were played last year, when PAK domestic wickets were mine fields and he took 12 wickets at 24. This year, on wickets more common to other parts of world, he has 5 wickets in 4 games at like 70 with an economy of 4.2 and SR of almost 100 ...... I guess you got the idea.

Had he been 6’4”, he would have definitely been better; but as good as Shaheen.... or other way, had Shaheen been 5’6”, would he had been as such like Musa - I highly doubt both.

This was a selection blunder, which didn’t sound well when I mentioned it - but, I guess, scratching the bottom of barrel is indeed hurting fingernails now.

Certainly looks like the talent pool is very limited now. The problem is when your talent pool is so limited , your selections have to be spot on. Misbah has failed spectacularly in that regard . Sameen Gul should have been selected ahead of one of Musa , Abbas and Imran and maybe even rahat.

 

[Junaids]

Naseem isn’t fit, might be carrying long term injury ... though I don’t know why team management is playing hush hush here - they kept him on field for whole day at Gabba, but didn’t use him!!!!! I hope he takes field against SRL.

May not be by you, or you might have missed the fun, try the Musa Khan thread, you’ll know better about the expectations.

Bingo.

I can’t reveal my source, but this morning I was told that Naseem arrived in Australia with tender shins and they got worse at Brisbane.

There were several tall enough experienced enough but quick enough guys whom Misbah refused to select for whatever reasons: Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Sameen Gul. We all know that Amir and Wahab would have agreed to a cameo return for this tour but someone wanted to make an example of them so others wouldn’t be selectively available.

(Even though Imran Khan was selectively available 1987-92.)

And yes, even Faheem Ashraf would have been an upgrade.

The Musa and Naseem ages mislead people too. They aren’t precociously talented and promising teenagers. They are adult age cheats. It’s like watching Nigeria and Ghana’s Under-20 football teams, waiting for the players to develop only for them to never improve and retire at “27”:

Just think what proportion of their Test wickets were taken by Aaqib and Waqar and Mushtaq and Saqlain after the age of “30”.

 

[Indiafan]

I hate to say this but [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you have been right all along. Your knowledge of test cricket especially in aus, is unappreciated on this forum.

How did indian short bowlers do well then? The reality is any new bowler, no matter his height, would be ineffective in Australia as their first tour. Not difficult to predict

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Bingo.

I can’t reveal my source, but this morning I was told that Naseem arrived in Australia with tender shins and they got worse at Brisbane.

There were several tall enough experienced enough but quick enough guys whom Misbah refused to select for whatever reasons: Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Sameen Gul. We all know that Amir and Wahab would have agreed to a cameo return for this tour but someone wanted to make an example of them so others wouldn’t be selectively available.

(Even though Imran Khan was selectively available 1987-92.)

And yes, even Faheem Ashraf would have been an upgrade.

The Musa and Naseem ages mislead people too. They aren’t precociously talented and promising teenagers. They are adult age cheats. It’s like watching Nigeria and Ghana’s Under-20 football teams, waiting for the players to develop only for them to never improve and retire at “27”:

Just think what proportion of their Test wickets were taken by Aaqib and Waqar and Mushtaq and Saqlain after the age of “30”.

Did u just compare Amir and imran and ask that Amir be given the same preference that Imran was?

One is a bonafide ATG who earned his selective duty and the other is a borderline cheat who retired from tests so he could continue getting rich in leagues

Why in the world should they get the same entitlement?

 

[MMHS]

Bingo.

I can’t reveal my source, but this morning I was told that Naseem arrived in Australia with tender shins and they got worse at Brisbane.

There were several tall enough experienced enough but quick enough guys whom Misbah refused to select for whatever reasons: Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Sameen Gul. We all know that Amir and Wahab would have agreed to a cameo return for this tour but someone wanted to make an example of them so others wouldn’t be selectively available.

(Even though Imran Khan was selectively available 1987-92.)

And yes, even Faheem Ashraf would have been an upgrade.

The Musa and Naseem ages mislead people too. They aren’t precociously talented and promising teenagers. They are adult age cheats. It’s like watching Nigeria and Ghana’s Under-20 football teams, waiting for the players to develop only for them to never improve and retire at “27”:

Just think what proportion of their Test wickets were taken by Aaqib and Waqar and Mushtaq and Saqlain after the age of “30”.

To be honest, the pool available is too limited now days. You have to realise the desperation when so many of us watching so much cricket coming out a laundry list of players expecting someone will click - even I had my team against SRL!!!!

The names you mentioned here are not new to be honest bar Sameen (and he looked quite flat to be honest in emerging cup, Hasnain was actually better, but have seen him also) - Rahat had lots of quality, but not much inside the skull - I am afraid he would have been spanked all around the park by set Aussies batsmen; while Adil doesn’t give much confidence either. You ask me, I’ll say these are marginal calls - Rahat, Sohail, Adil, Imran, Hasan, Sameen, JK ..... don’t think equations changes much. And, I am not sure about your sources regarding Amir/Wahab - as far I know from PP, Amir was asked for one last series and he declined. The fact is - it keeps the bubble intact, last time he looked million times better than what he is now, still managed I guess very few wickets with new ball.

I disagree about Faheem though - if not Musa, then not sure how Faheem could have changed PAK’s fortune with similar height but lesser in pace ..... and I am not sure if he could added much with bat either.

 

[Junaids]

Did u just compare Amir and imran and ask that Amir be given the same preference that Imran was?

One is a bonafide ATG who earned his selective duty and the other is a borderline cheat who retired from tests so he could continue getting rich in leagues

Why in the world should they get the same entitlement?

That really is my whole point.

Mickey Arthur recognised that Amir is worth picking outside Asia only. He is an asset outside Asia, but is too short and too slow to do anything in Asia. So they had a deal - Amir would only be picked outside Asia in Tests.

By mid-year this was viewed as an unfair favour for Amir, who needed to be put in his place to discourage others from trying the same thing.

But actually the main beneficiary was the national team - not Amir. They got a much-needed specialist in exactly the conditions we are seeing today. And how they are missing him now!
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Go back to the 2016 QEA Final Thread. I crucified Faheem as a rubbish bowler with no potential.

But I have eaten my words. He has worked hard to get his pace up to 135-140K and he has learned to bowl a challenging length.

Yes he’s short. Yes he will never be useful in Asia.

But his performance at The Wanderers Test ten months ago was fantastic - he took 6-99 and outbowled Abbas, Amir and Steyn.

He bowls a challenging length and he’s quick enough.

He’d have been in my team here. Only Amir, Babar and Shadab were more important selections for this Test - and three of the four most crucial Pakistanis aren’t there due to vendettas and teaching people a lesson and punting on promising teenagers who aren’t teenagers and aren’t even that promising.

 

[MMHS]

That really is my whole point.

Mickey Arthur recognised that Amir is worth picking outside Asia only. He is an asset outside Asia, but is too short and too slow to do anything in Asia. So they had a deal - Amir would only be picked outside Asia in Tests.

By mid-year this was viewed as an unfair favour for Amir, who needed to be put in his place to discourage others from trying the same thing.

But actually the main beneficiary was the national team - not Amir. They got a much-needed specialist in exactly the conditions we are seeing today. And how they are missing him now!

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Go back to the 2016 QEA Final Thread. I crucified Faheem as a rubbish bowler with no potential.

But I have eaten my words. He has worked hard to get his pace up to 135-140K and he has learned to bowl a challenging length.

Yes he’s short. Yes he will never be useful in Asia.

But his performance at The Wanderers Test ten months ago was fantastic - he took 6-99 and outbowled Abbas, Amir and Steyn.

He bowls a challenging length and he’s quick enough.

He’d have been in my team here. Only Amir, Babar and Shadab were more important selections for this Test - and three of the four most crucial Pakistanis aren’t there due to vendettas and teaching people a lesson and punting on promising teenagers who aren’t teenagers and aren’t even that promising.

Time and again, why you bring that J’burg Test, when you know your cricket!!!! That’s the worst SAF team in many years (probably since 1930s in contemporary comparison), which lost 0-2 to SRL few weeks later!!! And, that J’burg wicket is anything similar to what PAK is facing here. You understand that it has to be flatter than Grand Trunk Road for PAK batting to reach 336 from 94-5 against this Aussie attack!!!

Faheem’s great fortune that he has been dropped from PAK Test team at right time, which keeps him slim chance for a recall.

 

[Junaids]

But [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Faheem has a white ball county contract. And they liked his extra oce and now he has a red ball contract.

The only other Pakistani bowler with a red ball county contract is Abbas.

That tells me a story.

 

[MMHS]

But [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Faheem has a white ball county contract. And they liked his extra oce and now he has a red ball contract.

The only other Pakistani bowler with a red ball county contract is Abbas.

That tells me a story.

That actually tells me the other story - where the standard of County picks have gone!! I believe, guy has a contract at Notts - 35 years back, they had there foreign all-rounders by the name of Richard Hadlee, Clive Rice & Franklin Stevenson.

His former coach showed us future Kluesnar in him, so I checked the numbers in white ball cricket excluding ZIM reserves and Hong Kong and... it reads average of 65 & 12; unfortunately at wrong order - bowling & batting, instead of batting & bowling.

Anyway, not sure why you are bringing B, C, D & E.. when I can see A.

 

[AliMurtaza]

Bingo.

The Musa and Naseem ages mislead people too. They aren’t precociously talented and promising teenagers. They are adult age cheats. It’s like watching Nigeria and Ghana’s Under-20 football teams, waiting for the players to develop only for them to never improve and retire at “27”:

Just think what proportion of their Test wickets were taken by Aaqib and Waqar and Mushtaq and Saqlain after the age of “30”.

Dude, pretty bold and may I say outlandish allegations being thrown here. Naseem and Musa ages may be off by 2 years at most but I don’t believe they are in their 20s as your comment is insinuating.

Have seen you keep repeating the same points again and again. Yes, Musa and Imran were bad picks for this tour. The former is not ready and may never be based on the evidence today and the later is simply not good enough. But unlike you, I have no expectations from Ehsan and Rahat. Ehsan has simply no control over his line and Rahat has proven time and again that he doesn’t have the brain to do well. Only Sameen Gul is untested but based on the limited evidence I have seen in PSL and also in Emerging Cup, I don’t have high hopes from him either.

Pakistan hasn’t had a decent 3-men test pace attack for some time now, partly due to playing in UAE and partly due to betting on wrong horses like Rahat, Imran, Wahab, and Amir.

Anyways, what done is done. Shaheen and Naseem have the tools to be successful in the long run, Waqar or another coach need to work with them. I hope Abbas rediscovers his form soon. This leaves you 2 short of an ideal 5-men test pace squad. Not sure where the other 2 are coming from at this point.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Dude, pretty bold and may I say outlandish allegations being thrown here. Naseem and Musa ages may be off by 2 years at most but I don’t believe they are in their 20s as your comment is insinuating.

Have seen you keep repeating the same points again and again. Yes, Musa and Imran were bad picks for this tour. The former is not ready and may never be based on the evidence today and the later is simply not good enough. But unlike you, I have no expectations from Ehsan and Rahat. Ehsan has simply no control over his line and Rahat has proven time and again that he doesn’t have the brain to do well. Only Sameen Gul is untested but based on the limited evidence I have seen in PSL and also in Emerging Cup, I don’t have high hopes from him either.

Pakistan hasn’t had a decent 3-men test pace attack for some time now, partly due to playing in UAE and partly due to betting on wrong horses like Rahat, Imran, Wahab, and Amir.

Anyways, what done is done. Shaheen and Naseem have the tools to be successful in the long run, Waqar or another coach need to work with them. I hope Abbas rediscovers his form soon. This leaves you 2 short of an ideal 5-men test pace squad. Not sure where the other 2 are coming from at this point.

shaheen looks 22.
naseem 18
ifthikar 40
abbas 36