Does India have a better bowling attack than Pakistan right now?

[happydavy]

In which world is Yasir Shah a better bowler than Ashwin?

One guy avgs 25 the other 29.

IMO Yasir shah is much better than Ashwin. Ashwin seems to be more focused on getting his limited overs position back and is more interested in variations and show and tell stuff. His off spinning deliveries these days are just another variation and pretty innocuous. Yasir is a proper spinner.

 

[cricketjoshila]

IMO Yasir shah is much better than Ashwin. Ashwin seems to be more focused on getting his limited overs position back and is more interested in variations and show and tell stuff. His off spinning deliveries these days are just another variation and pretty innocuous. Yasir is a proper spinner.

Yasir Shah isnt even close.

 

[Third Man]

I'm waiting for Shaheen and Usman to see what they bring to the table in tests, but as of now, I think the Indian attack is easily better than ours in tests.

 

[Bhaijaan]

In the same world where Sanga is Better than sachin, avg 57 vs 53

Lol stop being cute.

Sangakkara isnt even mentioned in the same sentence with Sachin. Lara mostly and sometimes Ponting/Kallis might feature in debates. Sanga is comfortably behind ALL of them. Smacking Pakistan in UAE and Bangladesh, Zimbabwe in countless home tests doesn't make you the GOAT

 

[Adijazz1706]

Lol stop being cute.

Sangakkara isnt even mentioned in the same sentence with Sachin. Lara mostly and sometimes Ponting/Kallis might feature in debates. Sanga is comfortably behind ALL of them. Smacking Pakistan in UAE and Bangladesh, Zimbabwe in countless home tests doesn't make you the GOAT

Same with Ashwin, being dustbowl champ doesn't make you better than Jumbo, forget about being one of the best modern spinners or some such. Yasir in England vs Ashwin in England is a blowout, yasir took more wickets in one Test than Ashwin in the first 3

 

[BlackShadow]

Same with Ashwin, being dustbowl champ doesn't make you better than Jumbo, forget about being one of the best modern spinners or some such. Yasir in England vs Ashwin in England is a blowout, yasir took more wickets in one Test than Ashwin in the first 3

What a poor excuse. Ashwin has out-bowled Yasir in every single country.

Alnd since conditions matter so much to you, Yasir got two Asian pitches in England and got 5fer. But in the same series, he went wicketless giving away something like 350 runs in other matches, right? Total failure and would have struggled to buy a wicket in the ongoing series given the conditions.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] Ashwin got a dry pitch with a lot of help for spinners in this game and he was outbowled by Moeen who is no world beater as far as his bowling goes. If Ashwin bowled even 50% as good as he does in India. India would be chasing 145 not 245. This was a big chance for him to put in a match winning performance in an overseas test and he blew it by not bowling the right pace and length for this pitch. When Yasir got similar type of pitch in England he blew them away.

 

[Adil_94]

Ashwin outside Asia is someone who picks up a couple of wickets here n there. That pads his stats but in terms of true game changing performances he is sorely lacking and for that reason he will go down as nothing more than an Indian great. Even with a better average than Kumble or S/R. Kumble won matches overseas

 

[BlackShadow]

[MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] Ashwin got a dry pitch with a lot of help for spinners in this game and he was outbowled by Moeen who is no world beater as far as his bowling goes. If Ashwin bowled even 50% as good as he does in India. India would be chasing 145 not 245. This was a big chance for him to put in a match winning performance in an overseas test and he blew it by not bowling the right pace and length for this pitch. When Yasir got similar type of pitch in England he blew them away.

Ashwin has already given a match winning performance on a typical pace friendly English wicket. The kind of pitches where Yasir averages 100+ per wicket and that was the real "overseas" test.

How Yasir or Ashwin perform on dry wickets has already been proven in India, Sri lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies. One match here doesn't change that.

 

[BlackShadow]

Ashwin outside Asia is someone who picks up a couple of wickets here n there. That pads his stats but in terms of true game changing performances he is sorely lacking and for that reason he will go down as nothing more than an Indian great. Even with a better average than Kumble or S/R. Kumble won matches overseas

Well given Yasir couldn't achieve even half of that in overseas conditions, you should be a little more appreciative of Ash.

 

[BlackShadow]

Ashwin has already given a match winning performance on a typical pace friendly English wicket. The kind of pitches where Yasir averages 100+ per wicket and that was the real "overseas" test.

How Yasir or Ashwin perform on dry wickets has already been proven in India, Sri lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies. One match here doesn't change that.

Correction - Ok, not a match winning performance, but a performance neverthless. Can't take that away based on match result.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] the 1st test was the only one he was decent. This game was set up for him. A dry pitch with a lot of rough. The way he destroys teams in India he should have ran through this england side instead he was ineffective n wasnt a threat at all. Yasir even after the pasting he got Old Trafford especially. Came back at the Oval n won the game for Pak n helped level the series. with his fifer. Ashwin flopped his big chance.

 

[dildilpak]

In all honesty after today’s match, one can say that the Indian pacers were easily better than the Pak ones - Bhuvaneeshwar Kumar & Bumrah were able to generate swing & pace & trouble the batsmen while the likes of Aamir & Co. looked pale in their own backyard. Granted the Pak bowlers were on the backfoot because of the awful batting, but i saw that these guys had given up even before the Indian innings began & temperament & match awareness in terms of bowling to the field. What’s happening to the famous Pak pace bowling squad?

 

[Rohit_Beardman]

Pak pacers come good once in 2 years, they did well in CT, come WC apart from minnow bashing I don’t see them dominating

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes,India's bowling is better than Pakistan's bowling.

 

[Balthazar]

It's obvious, isn't it? And we even played without Khaleel, who was the top performer from the first match.

 

[giri26]

Why is Mohammad Abbas not in ODI? He has been taking wickets for fun in county cricket. He got another 10-fer yesterday.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I don't see Afghanistan doing this to India on these pitches in the Asia Cup currently.

 

[BlackShadow]

Does the thread really need a bump? Indian attack has been better for ages.

 

[K4Kohli]

any more doubts?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Lol at calling this rubbish Shinwari as World class Bowler and few posters were so arrogant that they went ahead and said he will run through Indian line up. This is the first tournament I saw him bowling and he's one brainless malfunctioned robot. Rohit in the previous match and the Afg batters in this match just toyed with him. The debutant Afridi lad looked like a better thinking bowler than this good-for-nothing pacer. But I would want to see him play next match against India and enjoy Rohit tonking him across all corners of the park. Bring it on the so called 'world's best Bowling attack'.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan’s best bowlers are at or or better but overall Bhaijaan believes India’s talent pool of the highest quality cricketers is now a lot bigger than Pakistan’s.

 

[ILcricket]

In all 3 formats : YES .

 

[saeed5646]

Hasan ali have found some form in odis and was excellent in last odi.Shaheen is exciting young cricketer who was man of the series in last odi series against nz.Amir have been poor in odis but after returning to squad in test and performing decent against Sa in test one can hope he will replicate that form in odis too.Shadab have improved his bowling alot and learning the art quickly how to bowl in odis which was not case a year ago so he is also more than decent spinner.Fahim is decent 4th seamer who can keep thing tight .

 

[Snak3eye5]

The delusions by the Indians continue about their so called phaast bowling. It’s just laughable. Does India have anyone comparable to Hasan Ali or Shadab Khan or even Shaheen. Have the Indians anyone comparable to Wasim, Shoaib or Waqar or Lee. Yes they had Sreesanth who in their minds set the world on

 

[Syed1]

The delusions by the Indians continue about their so called phaast bowling. It’s just laughable. Does India have anyone comparable to Hasan Ali or Shadab Khan or even Shaheen. Have the Indians anyone comparable to Wasim, Shoaib or Waqar or Lee. Yes they had Sreesanth who in their minds set the world on

Awkward moment when you are an Indian posing as a Pakistani and hoping people do not remember

 

[Napa]

Both India and Pakistan recently toured SA, and here are the averages of the leading SA batsmen who played against both countries (against India/against Pakistan)

Faf 30.5/35.3
Amla 33.83/52.25
Elgar 41.4/25.2
Markram 23.3/40.2
de Kock 11.83/62.75

Indian bowlers comfortably outperformed Pakistani bowlers in SA, with only Elgar recording a higher average against India. The sum of the averages for these top batsmen was about 150 against India and 210 against Pakistan.

 

[saeed5646]

Both India and Pakistan recently toured SA, and here are the averages of the leading SA batsmen who played against both countries (against India/against Pakistan)

Faf 30.5/35.3
Amla 33.83/52.25
Elgar 41.4/25.2
Markram 23.3/40.2
de Kock 11.83/62.75

Indian bowlers comfortably outperformed Pakistani bowlers in SA, with only Elgar recording a higher average against India. The sum of the averages for these top batsmen was about 150 against India and 210 against Pakistan.

wait did not you guys where at denial about good performances of pak batsmen due to alot easier pitches pakistan faced than india played alot difficult pitches . you can't have it both ways stick to one

 

[Napa]

wait did not you guys where at denial about good performances of pak batsmen due to alot easier pitches pakistan faced than india played alot difficult pitches . you can't have it both ways stick to one

I do not know who "you guys" are. I can only speak for myself and never commented on the performance of Pak batsmen in SA.

 

[big_gamer007]

Indian bowlers are far ahead of Pakistani ones at the moment. Pakistan has couple of exciting prospects but time will tell whether they fulfil their potential or not.

As of now Indian bowling is ahead by a good margin.

 

[Sidilicious]

Both India and Pakistan recently toured SA, and here are the averages of the leading SA batsmen who played against both countries (against India/against Pakistan)

Faf 30.5/35.3
Amla 33.83/52.25
Elgar 41.4/25.2
Markram 23.3/40.2
de Kock 11.83/62.75

Indian bowlers comfortably outperformed Pakistani bowlers in SA, with only Elgar recording a higher average against India. The sum of the averages for these top batsmen was about 150 against India and 210 against Pakistan.

tbf, this does not reflect the full picture
1. ABD played against India and not Pakistan, thus SA had a better batting line up against India
2. The pitches against India were more spicy, and thus slightly easier for bowlers.

Stats can't be compared over a series, but have to be taken across a couple of years. Also need to take into account other non-tangible factors.

Despite all this its clear India has better bowling line up than Pakistan.

 

[Ab Fan]

Clearly, India has a better bowling attack.

Pakistan bowlers hit the scenes with a bang for 7-8 months but then gets faded away.

India now have a solid trio of pace bowling attack overseas of Bumrah, Shami and Ishant. In Asia, Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and Yadav have been great and ruled the roost for years now.

 

[Mamoon]

India’s bowling attack has been better for many years now. However, the gap now is too big for even the delusional folk to deny.

Our bowling has been heavily overrated for over a decade and always fails under pressure. However, since our batting is a complete joke, the bowlers get more protection than they should.

Since 2003-2004, Indian bowlers have shown more mental fortitude, more skill with the ball and the ability to execute plans and follow instructions.

In the last 15 years or so, barring Asif and Amir (in patches), hardly any Pakistani bowler has shown the ability to make the new ball talk and they repeatedly choke as well.

As far as spin bowling is concerned, we have been heavily reliant on chucking to get wickets.

 

[a_tahir]

India’s bowling attack has been better for many years now. However, the gap now is too big for even the delusional folk to deny.

Our bowling has been heavily overrated for over a decade and always fails under pressure. However, since our batting is a complete joke, the bowlers get more protection than they should.

Since 2003-2004, Indian bowlers have shown more mental fortitude, more skill with the ball and the ability to execute plans and follow instructions.

In the last 15 years or so, barring Asif and Amir (in patches), hardly any Pakistani bowler has shown the ability to make the new ball talk and they repeatedly choke as well.

As far as spin bowling is concerned, we have been heavily reliant on chucking to get wickets.

For years??
It was only in 2011 when Ian Botham said India's bowling is as devastating as the teletubbies. Pakistan's bowling was pretty decent back then as well.

 

[big_gamer007]

India’s bowling attack has been better for many years now. However, the gap now is too big for even the delusional folk to deny.

Our bowling has been heavily overrated for over a decade and always fails under pressure. However, since our batting is a complete joke, the bowlers get more protection than they should.

Since 2003-2004, Indian bowlers have shown more mental fortitude, more skill with the ball and the ability to execute plans and follow instructions.

In the last 15 years or so, barring Asif and Amir (in patches), hardly any Pakistani bowler has shown the ability to make the new ball talk and they repeatedly choke as well.

As far as spin bowling is concerned, we have been heavily reliant on chucking to get wickets.

Pakistani bowlers have been good in patches, umar gul, Junaid Khan, wahan riaz, amir, Rana naved all have had some good performances in patches.

As if was truly world class but his fights were more off the ground than on the ground.. Same with Shoaib who was truly world class but again his fights were off the ground as well.

Indian bowlers are going through a professional system now so you would only see them improve further.. Hopefully the next generation would be even better with the system set up

 

[Mobashir]

Pakistan's bowling isn't that good these days but one thing is sure, despite our poor fielding we are by far the best team to defend a target. Our bowlers are always up to the challenge when they have a defendable target.

In test we are struggling a little bit and it's also the fact that we don't play a lot of test matches. Still Mohammad Abbas is a terrific addition to the team.

In ODI's, a bowling of - Amir, Shaheen/Junaid, Hasan Ali, Faheem and Shadab is formidable.

 

[Mamoon]

For years??
It was only in 2011 when Ian Botham said India's bowling is as devastating as the teletubbies. Pakistan's bowling was pretty decent back then as well.

People like Ian Botham are only concerned with how teams perform against England. He is not a neutral.

 

[Napa]

tbf, this does not reflect the full picture
1. <b>ABD played against India and not Pakistan, thus SA had a better batting line up against India</b>
2. The pitches against India were more spicy, and thus slightly easier for bowlers.

Stats can't be compared over a series, but have to be taken across a couple of years. Also need to take into account other non-tangible factors.

Despite all this its clear India has better bowling line up than Pakistan.

That is the reason why I did not count ABD's scores in my calculations. The total 215 against Pakistan and 140 against India was the sum of the averages of the 5 SA batsmen who played against both countries.

 

[Pakhs]

That is the reason why I did not count ABD's scores in my calculations. The total 215 against Pakistan and 140 against India was the sum of the averages of the 5 SA batsmen who played against both countries.

Just looking at the 2 bowling attacks India's look better as they are more experienced and have played for longer. In comparison Pakistan were playing rookies most experienced being Amir who is around for long time but not actually played that much due to his ban.

However in SA I think Pakistan bowling attack did satisfactory and the wickets were no way near as spicy as they were for India's tour. Overall the difference is not big between the bowling attacks around the world. England, SA and Australia also have a really good attack. Its the batting where teams have the edge these day.

 

[saeed5646]

tbf, this does not reflect the full picture
1. ABD played against India and not Pakistan, thus SA had a better batting line up against India
2. The pitches against India were more spicy, and thus slightly easier for bowlers.

Stats can't be compared over a series, but have to be taken across a couple of years. Also need to take into account other non-tangible factors.

Despite all this its clear India has better bowling line up than Pakistan.

Grand total of 35 average with not a single hundred .how much will you guys hype abd inning .test match is not won by single person.Don.t you guys have kohli too who is better than abd

 

[BreadPakoda]

Grand total of 35 average with not a single hundred .how much will you guys hype abd inning .test match is not won by single person.Don.t you guys have kohli too who is better than abd

He did play very well and was the difference between India winning and losing. Most batsmen flopped during that series, except Kohli and ABD.

That's why credit must be given to Pakistan's batting this time around. They played very well, at least in patches, and almost all batsmen contributed. In India's case Pandya was the second best batsman after Kohli, and he averaged 19 in the series. Bhuvi was the third best batsman.

 

[Pakhs]

He did play very well and was the difference between India winning and losing. Most batsmen flopped during that series, except Kohli and ABD.

That's why credit must be given to Pakistan's batting this time around. They played very well, at least in patches, and almost all batsmen contributed. In India's case Pandya was the second best batsman after Kohli, and he averaged 19 in the series. Bhuvi was the third best batsman.

That because of a lot spicier wicket during India series. In Pakistan series wicket were a bit up and down but no way near as spicy. 200 was a winning score in that India series.

 

[saeed5646]

That because of a lot spicier wicket during India series. In Pakistan series wicket were a bit up and down but no way near as spicy. 200 was a winning score in that India series.

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] might disagree .he think india bowler performs better than pakistani bowler without considering pitches in both series that were different

 

[BreadPakoda]

That because of a lot spicier wicket during India series. In Pakistan series wicket were a bit up and down but no way near as spicy. 200 was a winning score in that India series.

Not only that. Indian batsmen lacked application. Regardless of them playing on foreign tracks/difficult wickets, you expect world class batsmen like Pujara to adapt and not end up with an average in teens. If Kohli can average ~50, one can expect a couple of other top order batsmen to average 20+ the least.

Selection was poor too. Dhawan, much like Fakhar failed spectacularly. Also, Rahane was dropped and Rohit selected which was also poor.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan put up a good show with the bat. On pitches milder than these I have seen Pakistan fold to <100 score before, even with Misbah around.

 

[Pakhs]

Not only that. Indian batsmen lacked application. Regardless of them playing on foreign tracks/difficult wickets, you expect world class batsmen like Pujara to adapt and not end up with an average in teens. If Kohli can average ~50, one can expect a couple of other top order batsmen to average 20+ the least.

Selection was poor too. Dhawan, much like Fakhar failed spectacularly. Also, Rahane was dropped and Rohit selected which was also poor.

Pakistan put up a good show with the bat. On pitches milder than these I have seen Pakistan fold to <100 score before, even with Misbah around.

Well Kohli is different but on those pitches it was really hard work and lottery to score runs. But Pakistan series was not the same wickets were a lot easier to bat on as proven by much weaker Pakistan batting line-up in comparison to India's.

And I agree with you for Pakistan batting line-up it was still a big achievement to score runs even on these wickets as we have all seen them fold on even better wickets before overseas and at home.

 

[Pakhs]

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] might disagree .he think india bowler performs better than pakistani bowler without considering pitches in both series that were different

Indian bowlers performed better in Australia than Pakistan bowlers would in my opinion but in SA series Pakistan bowlers did their job.

 

[Etherealistic]

Yes, in both LOIs and Tests.

 

[Pakhs]

Yes, in both LOIs and Tests.

Not sure in ODIs but in test they have more experienced bowlers and over all team also.

 

[Napa]

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] might disagree .he think india bowler performs better than pakistani bowler without considering pitches in both series that were different

Can't reproduce conditions exactly for the two tours, but I won't deny that the pitches may have been different. The difference between 215 and 140 is a lot, and I doubt difference in pitches can explain the entire difference. The pitches were not exactly dead and the bounce was there in the wickets during the Pakistan series, with the Pakistani batsmen repeatedly falling to short pitched balling.

 

[saeed5646]

Can't reproduce conditions exactly for the two tours, but I won't deny that the pitches may have been different. The difference between 215 and 140 is a lot, and I doubt difference in pitches can explain the entire difference. The pitches were not exactly dead and the bounce was there in the wickets during the Pakistan series, with the Pakistani batsmen repeatedly falling to short pitched balling.

pitches of india and pakistan series was not same .you just cannot compare bowling of pakistan and india in Sa.how difficult it is to understand .

i will give you a simple clue .Philander who heavily reliant on pitches and condition these are his stats against pakistan and india in test series.15 point average difference between pakistan and india

Philander Against India

Matches 3

Wicket 15

Average 15.86

best figure 6/42

strike rate 38.58

Philander Against pakistan

Matches 2

Wicket 6

Average 28.50

best figure 3/42

strike rate 57.0

 

[BreadPakoda]

Not sure in ODIs but in test they have more experienced bowlers and over all team also.

Shocking as it may soundto you , India's bowling has outperformed Pakistan's in ODIs in a 1-year, 2-year, and 3-year period. I didn't check beyond that.

 

[saeed5646]

Shocking as it may soundto you , India's bowling has outperformed Pakistan's in ODIs in a 1-year, 2-year, and 3-year period. I didn't check beyond that.

there is no doubt about kuldeep and chahal are better spinner at the moment than pakistan have .but pakistan fast bowler have perform equally if not better

in term of wicket taken by both country fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

in term of better bowling average from both countries fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

 

[warcry]

sighs. all this talk of superiority is misplaced.

for odis 2017-2019

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

india and pakistan have identical bowling averages but pakistan has a better economy

for tests 2017-19 yes india has done better overall with an average of 25.68 vs pakistan with an average of 26.21.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

this is more to do with ashwin and jadeja being so prolific at home, with the emirates being higher scoring venues.
comparing the pace attacks in the same time period here

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

pakistan has a better pace attack. in the time period, second to south africa.


problem is, india bats at an average of 35, pakistan, at an average of 29 in the same time frame.

 

[BreadPakoda]

there is no doubt about kuldeep and chahal are better spinner at the moment than pakistan have .but pakistan fast bowler have perform equally if not better

in term of wicket taken by both country fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

in term of better bowling average from both countries fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Yes, but this is about overall ODI bowling, and India has been doing much better than Pakistan. Pakistan lacks an all-round attack.

 

[Indiafan]

there is no doubt about kuldeep and chahal are better spinner at the moment than pakistan have .but pakistan fast bowler have perform equally if not better

in term of wicket taken by both country fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

in term of better bowling average from both countries fast bowler from last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

sighs. all this talk of superiority is misplaced.

for odis 2017-2019

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

india and pakistan have identical bowling averages but pakistan has a better economy

for tests 2017-19 yes india has done better overall with an average of 25.68 vs pakistan with an average of 26.21.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

this is more to do with ashwin and jadeja being so prolific at home, with the emirates being higher scoring venues.
comparing the pace attacks in the same time period here

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

pakistan has a better pace attack. in the time period, second to south africa.


problem is, india bats at an average of 35, pakistan, at an average of 29 in the same time frame.

What is the point of looking at stats without looking at opposition? Are you saying bowling against Sri Lanka is same as bowling against england

 

[Napa]

pitches of india and pakistan series was not same .you just cannot compare bowling of pakistan and india in Sa.how difficult it is to understand .

i will give you a simple clue .Philander who heavily reliant on pitches and condition these are his stats against pakistan and india in test series.15 point average difference between pakistan and india

Philander Against India

Matches 3

Wicket 15

Average 15.86

best figure 6/42

strike rate 38.58

Philander Against pakistan

Matches 2

Wicket 6

Average 28.50

best figure 3/42

strike rate 57.0

It appears that Oliver did not leave many wickets for Philander to get

Anyway, seriously... Philander is just one bowler, so there is less data to draw a statistical inference from. On the other hand, the 215 to 140 comparison was for 5 batsmen.

Granted that the pitches in the India-SA series were "livelier", but 215 to 140 still seems like significant difference.

 

[saeed5646]

What is the point of looking at stats without looking at opposition? Are you saying bowling against Sri Lanka is same as bowling against england

Pakistan did tour england in 2017 so i don.t know what does that mean

 

[saeed5646]

It appears that Oliver did not leave many wickets for Philander to get

Anyway, seriously... Philander is just one bowler, so there is less data to draw a statistical inference from. On the other hand, the 215 to 140 comparison was for 5 batsmen.

Granted that the pitches in the India-SA series were "livelier", but 215 to 140 still seems like significant difference.

You are not worth a arguing .your single calculation of 215 to 140 depend on ifs and buts with zero ground realities .if phalinder can takes alot of wicket in pitches like india/SA have why cannot abbas if he played on those type of pitches which will suite his bowling and won us match at lords last year

 

[Pakhs]

Shocking as it may soundto you , India's bowling has outperformed Pakistan's in ODIs in a 1-year, 2-year, and 3-year period. I didn't check beyond that.

What are you metrics? India have had the better team over all for the last 3-4 years so their bowlers have looked better with their batsmen putting up big totals all the times. Bumrah for instance are able to take lots of wickets bowling yorkers with batsmen having to go after him. Same as all the spinners in the team.

Over the course of CT for instance Pakistan bowling won them the whole tournament with Pakistan batting putting up only one good score all tournament that too in the final. So it depends on what metrics you are using. But in tests definitely Indian bowlers are more experienced have played for longer and all over the world and at their peak right now.

 

[BreadPakoda]

What are you metrics? India have had the better team over all for the last 3-4 years so their bowlers have looked better with their batsmen putting up big totals all the times. Bumrah for instance are able to take lots of wickets bowling yorkers with batsmen having to go after him. Same as all the spinners in the team.

Over the course of CT for instance Pakistan bowling won them the whole tournament with Pakistan batting putting up only one good score all tournament that too in the final. So it depends on what metrics you are using. But in tests definitely Indian bowlers are more experienced have played for longer and all over the world and at their peak right now.

You want to go back to one series, in 2017, for making your point but are ready to ignore India's 4-0 win over England in test series when we were discussing best test team? Lol. You're exposing yourself badly here.

Any way. The difference is so big, that one can use any metric.

Sharing some recent numbers (since Jan 2018, non-minnows), sorted by average.

[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Team[/td]
[td]Matches[/td]
[td]Wickets[/td]
[td]Avg[/td]
[td]Eco[/td]
[td]Sr[/td]
[td]4w[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]India[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]163[/td]
[td]29.11[/td]
[td]5.05[/td]
[td]34.5[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Pakistan[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]43.98[/td]
[td]5.34[/td]
[td]49.3[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Especially in 2018, Pakistan's ODI bowling has been abysmal.

 

[Pakhs]

You want to go back to one series, in 2017, for making your point but are ready to ignore India's 4-0 win over England in test series when we were discussing best test team? Lol. You're exposing yourself badly here.

Any way. The difference is so big, that one can use any metric.



Especially in 2018, Pakistan's ODI bowling has been abysmal.

I am ignoring India's 4-0 win over England in terms of team performance recently but generally when you compare batsmen and bowlers you look at their over career performances or atleast that's what I thought?

Pakistan Bowling performance against non-minnows (not sure who is excluded in that) Pakistan won one match against top 6 teams in ODIs all year so this is expected batsmen didnt put enough runs on the board for the bowlers to work with. In ODIs wickets are taken over 90% due to score board pressure due to flat wickets. I remain unconvinced that India's ODI bowling is better than Pakistan's specially pace bowling even with the presence of Bumrah. India recently lost to England despite putting runs on the board because bowlers couldn't defend it.

The only recent times bowlers restricted the opposition to below par scores was against SA series where the two spinners took all the wickets. And for this purpose I agree kuldeep and Chahal are good spinners to have against non-asian teams but Pakistan can also chose to play two spinners Shadab who are like them also bowled well in the first game.

 

[warcry]

What is the point of looking at stats without looking at opposition? Are you saying bowling against Sri Lanka is same as bowling against england

i am merely looking over a time period of 2 years. by all means, increase the time period up to about 6 years, in order to ensure that every series against every team home and away is included. and then go ahead and see for yourself who has the best performed with the ball (overall) in that time frame.

 

[mystical man]

You are not worth a arguing .your single calculation of 215 to 140 depend on ifs and buts with zero ground realities .if phalinder can takes alot of wicket in pitches like india/SA have why cannot abbas if he played on those type of pitches which will suite his bowling and won us match at lords last year

The Gulf of Talent lies in the batting(India Miles Ahead of Pakistan) and with the return of Amir and Abbas it will be better than India, but the hammering India gave to Saffers in the 2018 forcing Devilliers to come back and allowing them to win one ODI makes me wonder that Pakistan is not playing to their potential...

 

[mystical man]

What are you metrics? India have had the better team over all for the last 3-4 years so their bowlers have looked better with their batsmen putting up big totals all the times. Bumrah for instance are able to take lots of wickets bowling yorkers with batsmen having to go after him. Same as all the spinners in the team.

Over the course of CT for instance Pakistan bowling won them the whole tournament with Pakistan batting putting up only one good score all tournament that too in the final. So it depends on what metrics you are using. But in tests definitely Indian bowlers are more experienced have played for longer and all over the world and at their peak right now.

Forget about metrics but tell me why Pakistan could not win today's game when they had reduced the opposition to 15/2 and allowing them to win with more than 8 overs to go

 

[Hasan123]

India is ahead of us in every facet of the game. The rankings are proof of this. Time to put our egos aside and just admit the truth. We may beat them now and than but they are well ahead of us right now.

There’s no shame in admitting that there is better teams than us. Posters only argue on here because there egos are too big.

 

[Pakpak]

Forget about metrics but tell me why Pakistan could not win today's game when they had reduced the opposition to 15/2 and allowing them to win with more than 8 overs to go

Because 200 is peanuts in today's world and you need a lot of luck to defend it. The way P'wayo played with massive luck it wasn't our day. 20-30 more runs and we'd probably won it.

With a name like mystical man, you don't sound half slow.

 

[Itachi]

What are you metrics? India have had the better team over all for the last 3-4 years so their bowlers have looked better with their batsmen putting up big totals all the times. Bumrah for instance are able to take lots of wickets bowling yorkers with batsmen having to go after him. Same as all the spinners in the team.

Over the course of CT for instance Pakistan bowling won them the whole tournament with Pakistan batting putting up only one good score all tournament that too in the final. So it depends on what metrics you are using. But in tests definitely Indian bowlers are more experienced have played for longer and all over the world and at their peak right now.

Once we dreamt to have bowlers like Pakistani ones....

Now we don't. Thats how you realize that Pakistani bowling has depleted over the course of time. Especially when most of your bowlers will be irrelevant even to an Indian setup which is supposed to be the most pathetic of all.

 

[Wahid1234]

India have got a better bowling attack than pakistan by a country mile and that is saying something. They in fact got a better bowling team in the world tbh and with they powerful batting they will easily win this year's world cup

 

[saeed5646]

The Gulf of Talent lies in the batting(India Miles Ahead of Pakistan) and with the return of Amir and Abbas it will be better than India, but the hammering India gave to Saffers in the 2018 forcing Devilliers to come back and allowing them to win one ODI makes me wonder that Pakistan is not playing to their potential...

Two reason india beat SA so comfortably
india have world class batsmen in kohli,dhawan and rohit .
india have better spinner than pakistan

 

[Chokli]

yes by a mile.. there's a reason they're winning in sa and aus

 

[Wahid1234]

yes by a mile.. there's a reason they're winning in sa and aus

totally agree with you they are the best ODI side by a country mile in my eyes they've proved it with winning on foreign soil like SA AND AUS AND are currently steam-rolling new zealand. Strong contenders for the world cup in my eyes an should win it

 

[Pakhs]

Forget about metrics but tell me why Pakistan could not win today's game when they had reduced the opposition to 15/2 and allowing them to win with more than 8 overs to go

Dont judge by these games too much, Firstly batting second on that wicket it got easier and easier and secondly the same issue not enough runs on the board if it was 260 game over.

 

[Pakhs]

Once we dreamt to have bowlers like Pakistani ones....

Now we don't. Thats how you realize that Pakistani bowling has depleted over the course of time. Especially when most of your bowlers will be irrelevant even to an Indian setup which is supposed to be the most pathetic of all.

Well we dont have the likes of 2 Ws or akhtar etc at the moment but its still a good bowling attack.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I can expect to bat as bad as Pakistan did in second inning.

But I believe India would have defended 270 vs England.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Naseem Shah, Shaheen Shah Afridi are not better than Mohammad Shami and Jasprit Bumrah as tearaway quicks yet.

Abbass is more skillful than Ishant in swing bowling but Ishant beats Abbass over a longer spell of test match fast bowling.

I do concede Yasir Shah is a genuine overseas test match winner spinner which Ashwin never was and never will be

India's 5th test bowler in tests Jadeja/Hardik are way better than Pakistani 5th bowling option in Shadab Khan

 

[Manunited18]

Currently Indian attack is better, it's more experienced, naseem and shaheen have wonderful ability but they do lack experience abroad

 

[Bhaijaan]

Naseem Shah reminds of a young Shaunt Tait, VRV Singh Mohammad Sami. What he needs is focus, guidance and faith.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Lol at indian fans who keep comparing our players with Pakistani players but don't want India to play against them. These paper warriors are pretty funny.

 

[castortroy]

Indian bowling attack is light years ahead of pak