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Does Jasprit Bumrah have a legal action?

You can actually bowl without hyperextension even if you have one. Its not like you aren't aware of it while bowling. It all depends on your action. Bumrah's action is not fully optimized to make best use of extension. Shoaib's and malinga actions are the best to use it to full advantage. Bumrah actually might be loosing his pace because he locks his elbow pre release. Also he does not have free flow of arms like shoaib or malinga due his action. I too have hyperextension but my action doesn't utilise it. I can easily though if I want.
 
Pollack said:
You can actually bowl without hyperextension even if you have one. Its not like you aren't aware of it while bowling. It all depends on your action. Bumrah's action is not fully optimized to make best use of extension. Shoaib's and malinga actions are the best to use it to full advantage. Bumrah actually might be loosing his pace because he locks his elbow pre release. Also he does not have free flow of arms like shoaib or malinga due his action. I too have hyperextension but my action doesn't utilise it. I can easily though if I want.
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Why dont you start wanting then? :misbah
 
KhanNn said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cd7UzSAUUAAaiBj.jpg
How do you explain this? I rest my case
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For a nation crazy about pace bowling, the level of ignorance with a good bunch of 'fans' is staggering. :stokes
 
We will never know unless he is reported for suspect action and that is never going to happen. Still his execution is very impressive, good find for T20's only.
 
He's fine. The bowler I'd be worried about atm is Junaid. He's action, to me at least, has deteriorated significantly.
 
KhanNn said:
Cd7UzSAUUAAaiBj.jpg


How do you explain this? I rest my case
Click to expand...

cricketjoshila said:
This is HYPER EXTENSION.Even though one still photograph proves little.
Click to expand...

Stark said:
For a nation crazy about pace bowling, the level of ignorance with a good bunch of 'fans' is staggering. :stokes
Click to expand...
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] and [MENTION=135057]Stark[/MENTION], you can explain this to posters like KhanNn twenty times and they will still come back with the same wrong argument.
 
Looks like hyperextension but only one way to find out for certain.
 
In real time, it looked like he is straightening his elbow, but the pics in this thread show its hyperextension. Personally, I would like such cases to be tested.
 
an average bowler, will only deliver at times in t20s. India should invest in someone else. He has a very bad action
 
Bumrah is doing his job pretty well , averaging 21 and SR under 5 is phenomenal in odis. Pakistan will kill for such a bowler these days.
 
pacesensation said:
Spot on, apart from other bad things he has an ugly action but then again kuruvilla, mohanti, agarkar, prasad and mohit sharma etc all had ugly actions. I do not blame him for that
Click to expand...

Agarkar had a pretty good action I thought. And good ol' Venky's action wasn't too bad either.
 
Explain Bumrahs Bowling Action

Can someone explain Bumrahs bowling action to me and how that is legal? Holding did an analysis on the difference between release points of Bumrah and Shami and showed the angles at which the arms are before they come over to release points.

As stated on the broadcast, a straight arm vertical to the body is 180 degrees, Shamis arm is about 190 degrees if I remember correcy but the graphic showed that Bumrahs arm is 214 degrees....that is 34 degrees beyond a straight arm. The release point for Bumrah is much lower than shami and the graphic didn't show it but his arm at release would be below 180 degrees.

That is a massive deviation of the elbow and Holding was at pain to stress it is "hyperextension" of the elbow.

Is that merely an excuse or is this a legitimate reason to chuck the ball, because that's what it looks like to a biomechanics layman like me.
 
mastimasti said:
Can someone explain Bumrahs bowling action to me and how that is legal? Holding did an analysis on the difference between release points of Bumrah and Shami and showed the angles at which the arms are before they come over to release points.

As stated on the broadcast, a straight arm vertical to the body is 180 degrees, Shamis arm is about 190 degrees if I remember correcy but the graphic showed that Bumrahs arm is 214 degrees....that is 34 degrees beyond a straight arm. The release point for Bumrah is much lower than shami and the graphic didn't show it but his arm at release would be below 180 degrees.

That is a massive deviation of the elbow and Holding was at pain to stress it is "hyperextension" of the elbow.

Is that merely an excuse or is this a legitimate reason to chuck the ball, because that's what it looks like to a biomechanics layman like me.
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Well I've always questioned it but no one really wants to debate this
 
Bewal Express said:
I raised his action last year. He chucks
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IMMY69 said:
Well I've always questioned it but no one really wants to debate this
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I did not realise a thread existed. I've never questioned his action but seeing Holdings analysis, which was actually about release points (Bumrah is much lower than Shami) but the graphic showed the angles and 214 degrees is way off the 180 degrees of a straight arm.

Holding probably realised, live on air what was happening and hastily mentioned hyperextension which is something I thought was no longer accepted by the icc or if it is, then it surely can't be 34 degrees of extension.

I've just read the ICC rules on it and it really is 50/50 at best but I'm surprised in 5 years he hasn't been called once.
 
He is a checker but he will not be called.It will open a can of worms.I can guarantee you that if Bumrah was from Pakistan,BD or Lanka he would have been called by now.The reason is simple.The boards in these countries have very little leverage over ICC.Upmires have been instructed not to call any Indian bowler.
 
mastimasti said:
Can someone explain Bumrahs bowling action to me and how that is legal? Holding did an analysis on the difference between release points of Bumrah and Shami and showed the angles at which the arms are before they come over to release points.

As stated on the broadcast, a straight arm vertical to the body is 180 degrees, Shamis arm is about 190 degrees if I remember correcy but the graphic showed that Bumrahs arm is 214 degrees....that is 34 degrees beyond a straight arm. The release point for Bumrah is much lower than shami and the graphic didn't show it but his arm at release would be below 180 degrees.

That is a massive deviation of the elbow and Holding was at pain to stress it is "hyperextension" of the elbow.

Is that merely an excuse or is this a legitimate reason to chuck the ball, because that's what it looks like to a biomechanics layman like me.
Click to expand...

images.png

Read this article explaining hyperextension in Akhtar's action.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/1579185.stm
 
Artaxerxes said:
He is a checker but he will not be called.It will open a can of worms.I can guarantee you that if Bumrah was from Pakistan,BD or Lanka he would have been called by now.The reason is simple.The boards in these countries have very little leverage over ICC.Upmires have been instructed not to call any Indian bowler.
Click to expand...

This could very well be true. The BCCI is hugely influential and could threaten to pull out of a ICC tournament as they have in the past.

AMSS said:
Are you guys suggesting Bumrah is an olympic gold medalist like Neeraj Chopra?

https://i.imgur.com/xoiDazO.png
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That is hilarious!

street cricketer said:
View attachment 111006

Read this article explaining hyperextension in Akhtar's action.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/1579185.stm
Click to expand...

That may be relevant to Akhtar but I though the ICC was now more strict with their regulations and medical exemptions.

Also the discussion is of a 214 degree extension of the elbow, I've personally never seen anything like it.
 
mastimasti said:
Also the discussion is of a 214 degree extension of the elbow, I've personally never seen anything like it.
Click to expand...

Well yes because hypermobile joints are not exactly common.

I'm not sure what your point is. It is impossible to lock your elbow joint at 180 degrees for people with hyperextension because the force will naturally thrust the forearm backward/extend beyond the normal range, i.e., hyperextension. If they could lock their elbow joint at 180 degrees like most people, then they wouldn't have hyperextension in the first place.
 
Only a test can reveal with 100% certainty whether Bumrah's action is legal or not.

But no umpire in the world will ever dare to call an Indian bowler.

Harbhajan, Ojha and Ashwin did it with complete freedom. (Did Ashwin say he chucked in an interview?)
 
80 - 90% cricket fans are Indian fans so Bumrah's action is legal :ajmal
 
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Bewal Express said:
Hyperextension or no Hyperextension - the rule is 15 degrees and he is well over double that.
Click to expand...

15 degrees is the allowed flexion angle. He doesn't flex his elbow. Its hyper extension.

If you fully extend your elbow it will not go beyond 180 degrees. But Bumrah's hyper mobile joints allow him to hyper extend it.

Hyper extension is perfectly legal.
 
mastimasti said:
This could very well be true. The BCCI is hugely influential and could threaten to pull out of a ICC tournament as they have in the past.



That is hilarious!



That may be relevant to Akhtar but I though the ICC was now more strict with their regulations and medical exemptions.

Also the discussion is of a 214 degree extension of the elbow, I've personally never seen anything like it.
Click to expand...

Hyper extension is perfectly legal. Its natural to that person. Its not a medical condition.
 
mastimasti said:
Can someone explain Bumrahs bowling action to me and how that is legal? Holding did an analysis on the difference between release points of Bumrah and Shami and showed the angles at which the arms are before they come over to release points.

As stated on the broadcast, a straight arm vertical to the body is 180 degrees, Shamis arm is about 190 degrees if I remember correcy but the graphic showed that Bumrahs arm is 214 degrees....that is 34 degrees beyond a straight arm. The release point for Bumrah is much lower than shami and the graphic didn't show it but his arm at release would be below 180 degrees.

That is a massive deviation of the elbow and Holding was at pain to stress it is "hyperextension" of the elbow.

Is that merely an excuse or is this a legitimate reason to chuck the ball, because that's what it looks like to a biomechanics layman like me.
Click to expand...

Thats what the analysis was alluding to, yes he does chuck and the video clearly shows it, the ICC is no longer flexible with regards to hyperextension like it used to be so he should be banned. IF he was from any other country he would have been banned.
 
People need to read up what extension and flexion of a joint means and then make comments.
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
80 - 90% cricket fans are Indian fans so Bumrah's action is legal :ajmal
Click to expand...

Alternatively, India's biggest rivals on a cricketing level currently are Australia, England and NZ.

Have never heard many fans from these countries accusing Bumrah or Ashwin of chucking. The only accusations I've come across on Bumrah and Ashwin's actions are from the Pakistani fans. Now there might be a reason for that, I just can't put a finger on it:narine
 
princeuk said:
Thats what the analysis was alluding to, yes he does chuck and the video clearly shows it, the ICC is no longer flexible with regards to hyperextension like it used to be so he should be banned. IF he was from any other country he would have been banned.
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Please post a source that says ICC doesn't allow hypertension.

Dont make up stuff.
 
street cricketer said:
Alternatively, India's biggest rivals on a cricketing level currently are Australia, England and NZ.

Have never heard many fans from these countries accusing Bumrah or Ashwin of chucking. The only accusations I've come across on Bumrah and Ashwin's actions are from the Pakistani fans. Now there might be a reason for that, I just can't put a finger on it:narine
Click to expand...

Reason is usually relieved with burnol.
 
I was thinking the same when I saw his action in slow motion while he was yorking James Anderson. Now I see this thread. To be honest, his action does not seem legal. He needs to go through that "rechecking" process that most Pakistani bowlers go through. It is like having a clear competitive advantage over your rivals.
 
I think the concept of hyperextension and the range of movements of the elbow joint might be a difficult concept to understand for laymen. These are something a medico or someone educated in biomechanics can comprehend.

Otherwise you won't be hearing bizarre statements like "why he's hyperextending more than 15 degrees", as if it is possible to lock your elbow joint midway in its range while thrusting your arm with full force towards the batsman in the process of releasing the ball.
 
cricketjoshila said:
15 degrees is the allowed flexion angle. He doesn't flex his elbow. Its hyper extension.

If you fully extend your elbow it will not go beyond 180 degrees. But Bumrah's hyper mobile joints allow him to hyper extend it.

Hyper extension is perfectly legal.
Click to expand...

Can you post a source as to where this is allowed.
 
I don't think Bumrah chucks, however, I won't mind him getting tested to distinguish between hyperextension and chucking. To my recollection, and it could be wrong, he's not had his action tested.

The real problem is obviously that no umpire will be brave enough to request a test given the strong likelihood they'll be blackballed from the international game.
 
Then What About Muralidharan? Murli's Action Had An Optical Illusion Of Throwing. We All Know Bumrah's Action Is Suspicious But Without Any Scientific Examination One Should Not Declare Him A Chucker
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you post a source telling us it does because the law is clear on chucking.
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Yes the law is clear. No flexion beyond 15 degrees from the striaght. Hyper extension is legal.


https://www.espn.in/cricket/story/_/id/22317018/icc-rules-jenny-gunn-action-legal


An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you post a source as to where this is allowed.
Click to expand...

There is no question of "allowing" here.

Everyone's elbow joint locks at 180 degrees, meaning you cannot extend your forearm beyond that range.

Some bowlers like Akhtar and Bumrah have hyperextension at their elbow joint, which means their joint locks at say 200 or 210 degrees.

When a normal bowler bowls, he does so while keeping his elbow joint at 180 degrees,i.e., while keeping it fully extended. The same range for someone like Bumrah or Akhtar would be 200 or 210 degrees and so when their arm comes down during the delivery stride, it would look bent backwards and that's because of hyperextension.

It is not a question of ICC "allowing it" as it would simply be not possible for Bumrah to bowl while keeping his arm flexed at 180 degrees. It's like asking a normal bowler to bowl while keeping his elbow joint flexed at say 150 degrees.
 
street cricketer said:
There is no question of "allowing" here.

Everyone's elbow joint locks at 180 degrees, meaning you cannot extend your forearm beyond that range.

Some bowlers like Akhtar and Bumrah have hyperextension at their elbow joint, which means their joint locks at say 200 or 210 degrees.

When a normal bowler bowls, he does so while keeping his elbow joint at 180 degrees,i.e., while keeping it fully extended. The same range for someone like Bumrah or Akhtar would be 200 or 210 degrees and so when their arm comes down during the delivery stride, it would look bent backwards and that's because of hyperextension.

It is not a question of ICC "allowing it" as it would simply be not possible for Bumrah to bowl while keeping his arm flexed at 180 degrees. It's like asking a normal bowler to bowl while keeping his elbow joint flexed at say 150 degrees.
Click to expand...

The law is simple and allows 15 degrees. Anything is illegal. Simple
 
cricketjoshila said:
Yes the law is clear. No flexion beyond 15 degrees from the striaght. Hyper extension is legal.


https://www.espn.in/cricket/story/_/id/22317018/icc-rules-jenny-gunn-action-legal


An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.
Click to expand...

What does the law say. Everything else is opinion. The law says 15 degrees and based on that he is chucking.
 
murakh1 said:
Then What About Muralidharan? Murli's Action Had An Optical Illusion Of Throwing. We All Know Bumrah's Action Is Suspicious But Without Any Scientific Examination One Should Not Declare Him A Chucker
Click to expand...

Murli debate is academic. I felt he was also chucking
 
I have no issues with Bumrah’s action.

But then again I also had no issues with Ajmal’s action before he got banned.

You may think I am too lenient. I did have a serious issue with Murali’s action though.

The rules of elbow extension need to be revisited by ICC and consistency need to be applied.
 
gazza619 said:
I have no issues with Bumrah’s action.

But then again I also had no issues with Ajmal’s action before he got banned.

You may think I am too lenient. I did have a serious issue with Murali’s action though.

The rules of elbow extension need to be revisited by ICC and consistency need to be applied.
Click to expand...

Law is very clear and consistent. But some umpire has to call a bowler for ICC to start the process. Who would dare?
 
gazza619 said:
I have no issues with Bumrah’s action.

But then again I also had no issues with Ajmal’s action before he got banned.

You may think I am too lenient. I did have a serious issue with Murali’s action though.

The rules of elbow extension need to be revisited by ICC and consistency need to be applied.
Click to expand...

Ajmal flexed his elbow and then extended it. Thats throwing.

Akhtar or Bumrah dont flex their elbow, their elbow doesn't lock at 180 degrees. It goes beyond 180 and is into hyper extension and is actually negative flexion. According to ICC its not counted in the 15 degrees rule.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Law is very clear and consistent. But some umpire has to call a bowler for ICC to start the process. Who would dare?
Click to expand...

Yes and hyperextension isnt chucking.



https://www.espn.in/cricket/story/_/...n-action-legal


An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.
 
Bewal Express said:
The law is 15 degrees and if it doesn't count,then shouldn't it be part of the law.
Click to expand...

Thats not for you or me to decide what counts what doesn't.

ICC decided its 15 degrees and hyperextension doesn't count in that 15 degrees and is legal. Thats the end of that.
 
So much ignorance in this thread.

First lets be 1000% clear about hyperextension (backward extension) vs regular extension.

One is ok cos it can't be controlled. Not willful.

Another is not cos its willful.

15 degree applies to the regular extension.

If AFTER understanding the difference, we are arguing about hyperextension...then that's another topic

If Bumrah is a chucker according to you...then so is Akhtar.

Its as simple as that.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Yes and hyperextension isnt chucking.



https://www.espn.in/cricket/story/_/...n-action-legal


An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.
Click to expand...

Precisely.

As you can see likes of Gunn, Akhtar, Murali etc. were called and cleared; whereas Indians are never called. Therein lies the problem.

People are not stupid, people know what goes on behind big BCCICC doors.

If Indian bowlers are called and then cleared... people will shut up and move on.
 
street cricketer said:
Fair. So a Pakistani was not the fastest bowler of all time afterall. That title probably goes to Brett Lee now.
Click to expand...

It makes no difference. We can't back in time but Bumrah is playing now and needs to be tested according to the laws as they are, not what people want them to be.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So much ignorance in this thread.

First lets be 1000% clear about hyperextension (backward extension) vs regular extension.

One is ok cos it can't be controlled. Not willful.

Another is not cos its willful.

15 degree applies to the regular extension.

If AFTER understanding the difference, we are arguing about hyperextension...then that's another topic

If Bumrah is a chucker according to you...then so is Akhtar.

Its as simple as that.
Click to expand...

The law makes no distinction- 15 degrees is the law and by the laws of the game he is chucking.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Precisely.

As you can see likes of Gunn, Akhtar, Murali etc. were called and cleared; whereas Indians are never called. Therein lies the problem.

People are not stupid, people know what goes on behind big BCCICC doors.

If Indian bowlers are called and then cleared... people will shut up and move on.
Click to expand...

When the rules of hyper extension are now clear and ICC knows what it is, why call someone?

Icc went through a lot of research before they made the present rules.
 
Bewal Express said:
It makes no difference. We can't back in time but Bumrah is playing now and needs to be tested according to the laws as they are, not what people want them to be.
Click to expand...

It does make a big difference. It is like Russian athletes getting stripped of medals for doping.

As Akhtar was a chucker in your opinion, Brett Lee is now probably the fastest bowler ever.
 
The picture in post 87 above is not hyper extension.
I have no hyper extension but I can recreate that picture.

The main thing is that he is not square on in that picture.
His shoulder twists this giving the impression that it is hyper extension.

I think he chucks but as no umpire wants to risk the wrath of India and the possibility to make millions no one is going to report him.
 
You can call it hyper extension for sure if the bowling arm elbow was facing straight down the wicket.
His is not and if you twist your elbow to the right you are able to bend your arm
 
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