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Does Pakistan have the best pace battery (Amir, Junaid, Hasan, Usman, Shaheen, Rumman) in ODIs?

Kohli The King of Chase

Kohli The King of Chase

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NOTE 1: THIS IS REGARDING ODIS.

NOTE 2: I AM TALKING ABOUT THE FRONTLINE(not all rounders) SEAMERS WHO HAVE ALREADY DEBUTED, NOT THE ONES WHO ARE YET TO DEBUT.

NOTE 3: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, YOU CAN HAVE YOURS


Amir: World class

Junaid: Proven performer and the 3rd highest wicket taker at the CT, despite playing one less match. Had he played all matches he would have been the 2nd highest wicket taker. Brilliant with the old ball and reverse swing.

Hassan: World class

Usman: Replaces Amir, and takes a 5fer in only his 2nd match

Shaheen: World class(based on potential, yes he may well end up as Anwar Ali). If I had to choose one upcoming bowler to be the next world class bowler, then it would be Shaheen. Played 3 T20is.

1st match against WI. Most economical seamer in that match. Yes, it was their C team, but he was bowling to Fletcher, Samuels and Ramdin (Ramdin, who was going berserk against Shadab, Usman and Faheem in that match).

2nd match against Australia: Bowled against Finch, Maxwell, Head and Short. Top wicket taker and wickets of Finch, Maxwell and Short

3rd match against Australia: Most economical bowler, and took the wicket of Short

Rumman: Debuts in the important game at the CT SF against England, who have a beast line up, and gives a good performance. Leading wicket taker(economy was on the higher side, but he can improve and also it's not easy bowling to the top 4 of Munro, Guptill, Williamson and Taylor on those tiny grounds) in NZ, despite the presence of Amir and Hassan


Even countries like Australia and South Africa seems to be struggling at the moment.

Australia: Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood are very good but their bench is Stanlake, Tye and Richarson who don't have much to offer in Odis

South Africa: Rabada is very good and then Morris, Ngidi who are just not good enough.

England: Even their first choice bowlers are gun barrels apart from Woakes.

New Zealand: Southee, Boult are very good and Henry and Milne are decent. Their bench is Ferguson and Rance.

India: Bumrah and Bhuvi are world class, then we have Yadav who's the Indian Wahab at best. Then we have Thakur, Siraj, Unadkat and recently Kaul who are just average and below average.


How good is this pace attack and it's bench?

How blessed is Pakistan to have these many front line bowlers?

Junaid, a bowler who was the 3rd leading wicket taker in an ICC tournament is sitting on the bench despite doing nothing wrong. Rumman, a bowler who was the leading wicket taker in his last series is out. And if Shaheen comes I think, Junaid may well be out of the squad as well.


BAN, WI, SL and ZIM not much to comment.
 
They are very good but I won’t say they are the best for ODIs.. our pace force these days is a mystery to me.. some of the do good in tests, some do well in ODIs some in T20, but they are not consistently good across all formats.. abbas outbowled amir and hasan in WI. Hasan outbowled Amir in CT but lately he has been off. Rumman and junaid are not even first choice. Shaheen and Usman are too new.

I think they are probably most feared in T20s but jury is still out on their ODI performances
 
Stewie said:
They are very good but I won’t say they are the best for ODIs.. our pace force these days is a mystery to me.. some of the do good in tests, some do well in ODIs some in T20, but they are not consistently good across all formats.. abbas outbowled amir and hasan in WI. Hasan outbowled Amir in CT but lately he has been off. Rumman and junaid are not even first choice. Shaheen and Usman are too new.

I think they are probably most feared in T20s but jury is still out on their ODI performances
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I am not asking across formats. I hope u read the whole post(despite it being longer). The question is regarding Odis, comparing it to the depth and bench strength of other countries
 
Usman Chadda said:
To the OP, how many matches have they played combined?
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Bro kindly read the whole post. This is talking about the Pace attack and it's bench strength. I can't include everything in the thread title as it's not possible to have such a long title for a thread. Amir, Hassan and Junaid are top class. Whereas Usman, Rumman and Shaheen form a really good bench strength, which most teams lack.
 
Well they are all front line for Pakistan but only time will tell if they are truly world class front line, except for amir, Hassan and junaid who is painfully either out of form, favor or whatever.

I think for the World Cup in England, Pakistan needs to go in with two spinners, so with that and faheem hopefully improving more by then and cementing his place, I would think we only have room for two frontline bowlers and amir and hasan have to be those two. Hasan and shadab and faheem can all bat so I really don’t see Pakistan going in with more than three pacers. I can promise you the pitches won’t be conducive for four seamers.
 
Kohli said:
Bro kindly read the whole post. This is talking about the Pace attack and it's bench strength. I can't include everything in the thread title as it's not possible to have such a long title for a thread. Amir, Hassan and Junaid are top class. Whereas Usman, Rumman and Shaheen form a really good bench strength, which most teams lack.
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Genuine question. Its impressive how highly rated this bowling attack is when you look at the meagre number of matches and the lack of experience of these boys
 
Yes, best pace attack. With Shadab in there too it's the best ODI bowling attack in the world for sure.
 
We are prone to having our off days. Sides like England and India can tear apart any bowling attack no matter how good, which means we need to sure up our batting as well.
 
junaid after dec 2016.filtered 14 14 110.5 4 600 19 3/40 31.57 5.41 35.0 0 0
Mohammad amir;filtered 2017-2018 17 17 143.3 10 736 21 3/16 35.04 5.12 41.0 0 0
 
Pakistan have the best attack in the world right now. I don't doubt that.

For the WC, I think Pakistan should go with Amir, Hasan, Usman, Shaheen, Faheem.

This will be harsh on Rumman and Junaid, but I think the above 5 shoukd make the cut. Faheem as an allrounder.
 
junaid with 19 wickets in 14 matches .Aamir 21 wickets in 17 mathches with 35 average while junaid with 31 average.
 
sam_ahm said:
Pakistan have the best attack in the world right now. I don't doubt that.

For the WC, I think Pakistan should go with Amir, Hasan, Usman, Shaheen, Faheem.

This will be harsh on Rumman and Junaid, but I think the above 5 shoukd make the cut. Faheem as an allrounder.
Click to expand...

I think Usman is not that good.HE just goes across the right handers.?
 
Chief Destroyer said:
I watched the games, don't need the stats. Most were cheap wickets.
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Whether we like it or not, he was a big contributor to the CT win.

That doesn't necessarily mean he should keep his place in playing XI some two years later but at least give him the credit he deserves.
 
It's confusing when people want Pakistan to become the best in the world but continue to back mediocre players like Junaid. What does he offer? Pace? Movement? Height? Supreme accuracy? Future potential? Nothing. He's freaking ordinary. Move on.
 
mak36 said:
Whether we like it or not, he was a big contributor to the CT win.

That doesn't necessarily mean he should keep his place in playing XI some two years later but at least give him the credit he deserves.
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Dude said "rejuvenated" the attack.
 
The bowling attack was exposed in NZ. Amir is not the kind of guy who can blast a team out on his own, he depends on others to build pressure up.
 
Savak said:
The bowling attack was exposed in NZ. Amir is not the kind of guy who can blast a team out on his own, he depends on others to build pressure up.
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Hasan was on his first tour, Amir coming off a niggle from SL where he was forced to play two Tests while unfit, Rumman was injured along with Junaid and Faheem an all-rounder.

Hardly “exposed” when the attack was pretty much either injured or green.
 
Savak said:
The bowling attack was exposed in NZ. Amir is not the kind of guy who can blast a team out on his own, he depends on others to build pressure up.
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How?

Also, one bad series doesn’t indicate anything. These guys were unfit.
 
Pakistanis don't respect their bowlers, since they've in abundance. Junaid would be in our playing 11 as we need a left armer, and we'd be lucky to have even Rumman over the likes of Sran, Mohit, Unadkat, Vinay, Thakur, Siraj, Shankar, Kaul and the list goes on..😢😢
 
Kohli said:
NOTE 1: THIS IS REGARDING ODIS.

NOTE 2: I AM TALKING ABOUT THE FRONTLINE(not all rounders) SEAMERS WHO HAVE ALREADY DEBUTED, NOT THE ONES WHO ARE YET TO DEBUT.

NOTE 3: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, YOU CAN HAVE YOURS


Amir: World class

Junaid: Proven performer and the 3rd highest wicket taker at the CT, despite playing one less match. Had he played all matches he would have been the 2nd highest wicket taker. Brilliant with the old ball and reverse swing.

Hassan: World class

Usman: Replaces Amir, and takes a 5fer in only his 2nd match

Shaheen: World class(based on potential, yes he may well end up as Anwar Ali). If I had to choose one upcoming bowler to be the next world class bowler, then it would be Shaheen. Played 3 T20is.

1st match against WI. Most economical seamer in that match. Yes, it was their C team, but he was bowling to Fletcher, Samuels and Ramdin (Ramdin, who was going berserk against Shadab, Usman and Faheem in that match).

2nd match against Australia: Bowled against Finch, Maxwell, Head and Short. Top wicket taker and wickets of Finch, Maxwell and Short

3rd match against Australia: Most economical bowler, and took the wicket of Short

Rumman: Debuts in the important game at the CT SF against England, who have a beast line up, and gives a good performance. Leading wicket taker(economy was on the higher side, but he can improve and also it's not easy bowling to the top 4 of Munro, Guptill, Williamson and Taylor on those tiny grounds) in NZ, despite the presence of Amir and Hassan


Even countries like Australia and South Africa seems to be struggling at the moment.

Australia: Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood are very good but their bench is Stanlake, Tye and Richarson who don't have much to offer in Odis

South Africa: Rabada is very good and then Morris, Ngidi who are just not good enough.

England: Even their first choice bowlers are gun barrels apart from Woakes.

New Zealand: Southee, Boult are very good and Henry and Milne are decent. Their bench is Ferguson and Rance.

India: Bumrah and Bhuvi are world class, then we have Yadav who's the Indian Wahab at best. Then we have Thakur, Siraj, Unadkat and recently Kaul who are just average and below average.


How good is this pace attack and it's bench?

How blessed is Pakistan to have these many front line bowlers?

Junaid, a bowler who was the 3rd leading wicket taker in an ICC tournament is sitting on the bench despite doing nothing wrong. Rumman, a bowler who was the leading wicket taker in his last series is out. And if Shaheen comes I think, Junaid may well be out of the squad as well.


BAN, WI, SL and ZIM not much to comment.
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Pakistan's bowling attack is very good but you are a bit biased towards pakistan.
You are putting shinwari and rumman's name in good bowlers(based on one two performances) while you are dismissing stanlake, ngidi as nothing bowlers.
Jhye richardson isn't a nothing bowler.
We also have shami on bench which you have completely ignored(now don't say that he hasn't played many odis even if he doesn't play he is in our bench)
 
mak36 said:
Shaheen hasn't debuted in ODIs.
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I know, but he has debuted in t20is and it's just a matter of time before he debuts in odis. I can't create another thread after Shaheen debuts.

On a side note, I don't see any reason as to why the selectors didn't select him despite doing so well in the T20is. You are playing Zimbabwe, who are missing it's 8 first choice players.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Pakistan's bowling attack is very good but you are a bit biased towards pakistan.
You are putting shinwari and rumman's name in good bowlers(based on one two performances) while you are dismissing stanlake, ngidi as nothing bowlers.
Jhye richardson isn't a nothing bowler.
We also have shami on bench which you have completely ignored(now don't say that he hasn't played many odis even if he doesn't play he is in our bench)
Click to expand...

Yeah I've missed Shami, I'll take that. But brother, here I am not saying that they all are top bowlers but they've shown glimpses they can be. Here I am talking about their bench strength who are good to replace if needed, but unfortunately I was unable to write such a long title for a thread, as it's not allowed.

If u look u can see here I am mostly stressing on the top 3, and the bench strength, but as I said I couldn't have such a long title.

Regarding Stanlake he averages 40, Richardson he's taken 8 wickets in 4 matches out of which 4 were in just one match and an economy of 7.32. And Ngidi again a very high economy of 6.4

Again they don't look good to me atleast, and these are just my opinion as to what I feel.
You can disagree tho, as mentioned in NOTE 3
 
Kohli said:
I know, but he has debuted in t20is and it's just a matter of time before he debuts in odis. I can't create another thread after Shaheen debuts.

On a side note, I don't see any reason as to why the selectors didn't select him despite doing so well in the T20is. You are playing Zimbabwe, who are missing it's 8 first choice players.
Click to expand...

I would normally have agreed, but this was as good a series as any to debut him. The fact he isn't even in the squad suggests he's not in their immediate plans.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Australia also has nathan coulter nile.
Click to expand...

Again, the problem is I mentioned recently in my thread and even that got removed due to the length of the title. And it's been 10 months since Counternile has played an odi, and it's a long time to consider him. And he's already 31, I don't see any future for him due to his injuries and his age.
 
Pakistan pace attack is definitely impressive but are very inconsisent, with that being said I back the Pakistani bowlers in the next world cup but depends on how our batters perform. I definitely think Junaid is a good bowler and also think the same about Rumman Raees, He's a good bowler who has some good potential. Maybe sticking with him in T20I was probably the best solution and kind of working him into the ODI was a better option. He still performed admirably against Eng in CT. So yes our pace attack is impressive but need be consistent.
 
Lol why are people talking about Junaid. Apart from the fact that he was ordinary, i thibk he was also chucking for pace. You have enough decent options with vkesn actions and still be the best bowling attack in the world. Junaid offers nothing if you ask me.
 
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Shinwari quietly cementing his place as the third seamer...
 
junaid khan and rumman raees are just meh like indian trunlders. Usman khan is not any better than these guys.
 
Arham_PakFan said:
Who do you think is better?Wahab ‘spray-gun’ Riaz?
Click to expand...

Yep he is miles better than these trundlers.Wahab has performed in every domestic tournament he has played in an year or so. He has improved vastly he bowled aggressively with brain in PSL 3. He should be included in t20is and tests.
 
dauntless said:
Yep he is miles better than these trundlers.Wahab has performed in every domestic tournament he has played in an year or so. He has improved vastly he bowled aggressively with brain in PSL 3. He should be included in t20is and tests.
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Nope.Wahab is a tried and tested failure.I thought we were talking about internationals.We might as well bring in Kamran Akmal and Iftikhar Ahmed if we’re talking about domestic performances.

In T20Is,Rumman should be on the bench alongside Amir Yamin.Shaheen,Usman,Amir and Hasan are enough.

In tests,Abbas,Hasan,Amir should be frontline fast bowlers.Faheem is the allrounder.Mir Hamza and Sadaf Hussain should be given preference over the TTF.

In ODIs there is absolutely no space.Since Junaid is already on the bench.He replaced the soray-gun in CT and ended as 3rd in top wicket takers.Usman,Amir,Hasan and eventually Shaheen will be our first four.
 
Arham_PakFan said:
Nope.Wahab is a tried and tested failure.I thought we were talking about internationals.We might as well bring in Kamran Akmal and Iftikhar Ahmed if we’re talking about domestic performances.

In T20Is,Rumman should be on the bench alongside Amir Yamin.Shaheen,Usman,Amir and Hasan are enough.

In tests,Abbas,Hasan,Amir should be frontline fast bowlers.Faheem is the allrounder.Mir Hamza and Sadaf Hussain should be given preference over the TTF.

In ODIs there is absolutely no space.Since Junaid is already on the bench.He replaced the soray-gun in CT and ended as 3rd in top wicket takers.Usman,Amir,Hasan and eventually Shaheen will be our first four.
Click to expand...

And to add to all this : Mickey said that he does not have a good work ethic.So case closed.
 
Why do people have this bizarre obsession with Wahab's pace? He's not that much faster than Hasan Ali, and a lot less accurate.
 
When did Amir become world class again? He averages close to 30 @ a SR of 37.

Has he done anything since the CT Final?
 
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To answer OP, it's Australia and it isn't close.

ATG in Starc and a consistently class performer in Hazlewood who could also finish as an ATG ODI bowler.

Cummins for the X factor and a bench of Bird, Pattinson and Billy.
 
Aman said:
When did Amir become world class again? He averages close to 30 @ a SR of 37.

Has he done anything since the CT Final?
Click to expand...
It’s not like he’d done anything before the CT Final either.
 
Ellipsism said:
It’s not like he’d done anything before the CT Final either.
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Exactly...

It seems it's easy to become world class after once in a blue moon performances....

World class is someone who is among the very best in the world and consistently performs, which no one outside Hasan Ali does for Pakistan (bowlers).
 
No. When available, Aus have the best pace battery in the world. Across formats.
First Choice:
Hazlewood
Starc
Cummins

Backups:
Billy Stanlake
Jhye Richardson
James Pattinson
Andrew Tye

In essence Pak on a good day puts out 2 world class ODI seamers and has serviceable 3rd and 4rth wheels with a talented young 'un (Shaheen) on verge of breaking out.

Fully fit Aus side puts out 3 cross format proven high quality quicks with one talented, further ahead in development young 'un (Stanlake) waiting in wings.
 
Aman said:
To answer OP, it's Australia and it isn't close.

ATG in Starc and a consistently class performer in Hazlewood who could also finish as an ATG ODI bowler.

Cummins for the X factor and a bench of Bird, Pattinson and Billy.
Click to expand...

Need to play together consistently first.
 
In fact, Pak's bigger strength is their high quality leggie who's probably among the top 3 ODI wristspinners today (joint with Rashid and Kuldeep)
 
pratiktc said:
No. When available, Aus have the best pace battery in the world. Across formats.
First Choice:
Hazlewood
Starc
Cummins

Backups:
Billy Stanlake
Jhye Richardson
James Pattinson
Andrew Tye

In essence Pak on a good day puts out 2 world class ODI seamers and has serviceable 3rd and 4rth wheels with a talented young 'un (Shaheen) on verge of breaking out.

Fully fit Aus side puts out 3 cross format proven high quality quicks with one talented, further ahead in development young 'un (Stanlake) waiting in wings.
Click to expand...
If we had a combined Pakistan and Australian teams, Starc and Hazlewood would be the first 2 pacers picked, the third would be Hasan Ali and you'd pick Cummins as the 4th pacer/pace bowling all rounder.
 
mak36 said:
Need to play together consistently first.
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Starc and Hazlewood walked a WC together... Anyone of Cummins, Pattinson and Billy would be good 3rd pace option for them, the odds of them being injured at the same time are extremely low.
 
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Aman said:
Starc and Hazlewood walked a WC together... Anyone of Cummins, Pattinson and Billy would be good 3rd pace option for them, the odds of them being injured at the same time are extremely low.
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Four of the five are injured right now. The fifth is very inexperienced and won't prove much of a threat without any support (as recently demonstrated).
 
mak36 said:
Four of the five are injured right now. The fifth is very inexperienced and won't prove much of a threat without any support (as recently demonstrated).
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And come the WC they'll be fit and firing to win Australia their 3rd WC in 4 tournaments.

Australia don't take JAMODIs seriously, they're a different beast come the WC.
 
Aman said:
And come the WC they'll be fit and firing to win Australia their 3rd WC in 4 tournaments.

Australia don't take JAMODIs seriously, they're a different beast come the WC.
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Australia are a weak ODI team currently. They're sixth for a reason.
 
mak36 said:
Four of the five are injured right now. The fifth is very inexperienced and won't prove much of a threat without any support (as recently demonstrated).
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They generally never play their full strength bowling attack during this time of the year anyway.
 
Ellipsism said:
They generally never play their full strength bowling attack during this time of the year anyway.
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Correct. But it's wrong to suggest Australia aren't even trying/don't care. The 5-0 pasting against England would have hurt.

My point is that contrary to what Aman seems to be suggesting, this is not the Australia of old. Yes they will be (more) competitive during the WC19 but to say they are favourites to win is delusional.
 
mak36 said:
Correct. But it's wrong to suggest Australia aren't even trying/don't care. The 5-0 pasting against England would have hurt.

My point is that contrary to what Aman seems to be suggesting, this is not the Australia of old. Yes they will be (more) competitive during the WC19 but to say they are favourites to win is delusional.
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Take Rohit and Kohli out of India and see how they look, take Fakhar and Hasan Ali out and see how well they do.

Australia are missing Warner, Smith, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins. That's 5 frontline players who would walk into the team, the key pieces of their team.

One of them is an all time great already, another has a potential to be ATG and other two can be Australian greats.
 
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Australia care very little about JAMODIS, it's only around WC where they start to pay more attention to it. Right now they've been taken quite a few defeats but they know that's down to the suspensions and injuries, they're not panicking because they know their team will be a lot different come the WC.

You can just ask some of the Aussie posters if you don't buy it [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION]
 
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