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Does the new defence pact with KSA imply that Saudi will defend Pakistan against Indian aggression?

Does the new defence pact with KSA imply that Saudi will defend Pakistan against Indian aggression?


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Evidence:

Ignore me or my personal experience or exposure and listen to BBC coverage


Question to Indians:


Dear @Bhaijaan

You know that I always appreciate you, your thoughts and your input. I do not know your background or where you grew up but I would like you, @uppercut @straighttalk @Rajdeep @Vikram1989 @JaDed @Champ_Pal or anybody else who has grown up in India to answer a simple question for everybody else who has never lived in India.

Is it common in Indian schools, colleges, and universities for Muslims to be mocked or equated with Pakistan?

I want one of you to be honest and respond honestly to @Stewie @ElRaja @Patriot @The Bald Eagle @Major @Mamoon @DeadlyVenom or those who have never lived in India about what happens to Muslim students in Indian schools, colleges and universities.

Please give an honest and direct answer that Muslims in India for no reason do not get equated and compared with Pakistan on a daily basis.

And the answer is not to start saying this (or that) happens to Hindus in Pakistan.

And the answer is also not "I had a lot of Muslim friends in university etc"...

Thanks

Notice the underlined part and pay attention to replies from Indians.


Non-Answer 1:
Is this a serious question?

No it's extremely uncommon for Pakistan to be mentioned in conversation with either Muslims or Hindus. Especially if you're talking in environments like schools, colleges and universities.


Of course Indian Muslims face a lot of challenges. But so do Indians from the North East, lower caste Indians, North Indians in the South, South Indians in the North etc. etc. India is full of challenges for people living here. However, the specific issues Indian Muslims deal with day to day have very little to do with being associated with Pakistan. It's smaller discriminations, name calling...things minority communities face worldwide.

I think perhaps from talking in your own echo chambers, you have a weird idea of how Muslims in India live and the kind of challenges they face. I also assure you there's no wholesale immigration of Muslims from India. While I suppose like most Indians, they'd jump at a chance to migrate to a developed country, they're not looking to illegally escape to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma etc.
Notice, how he first mocks the question then breezes past it and pivots and changes topic.

Non-Answer 2:

How long have you lived in India? Or have you ever?

I have lived here for 45 years across several states and I assure you Pakistan is far less relevant in day to day Indian discourse than you may believe from interacting with the small group of Indians on this forum. While I can't deny that it would be an insult to call a Indian Muslim a 'Pakistani' just like it would be an insult to call me a "Kaalu", neither of these insults are faced in day to day real life.
Notice, how he continues to mock and pivot away from the issue.

Non-Answer 3 & Pivot:

These stuff happens among Pakistanis as well, they might not agree here, from my experience the least derogatory remarks I have heard are from Malayalees and Telugus two of my fav groups that are pretty chill even when in majority.

This is so common in India (North as I don't know about South) that it is covered by BBC!
 
heres simple equation for those who are getting confused on both sides from what i understand...

saudis will never deploy its armed forces to protect pakistan in the event india attacks pakistan, but that is immaterial, the pakistani army does not need personal. what it needs is supply lines and economic support in times of war. pak will likely provide its nuclear deterent to saudi, as well as training and troops stationed either within the saudi army, or as part of a contingent of pakistani soldiers operating form semi autonomous bases. the saudi military will upgrade its technology and will use pakistan as the proxy to get chinese technology, which pakistan will procure and deploy for saudi, and in turn they will likely be allowed to procure the same equipment for themselves to bolster their arsenal.

pakistan gives nukes, manpower, and military wherewithal
saudi gives money, and a supply line which will have to hold up in times of war for pakistan

this is how i read it, from my understanding so far.

Dear @ElRaja

Agree with the Green.

You know you respect your views but I disagree with your opinion about Pakistan extending its Nuclear umbrella to KSA for roughly the same reasons as below:

Pakistan is never providing nuclear profileration, it's very naive to think that. We would be sanctioned to our eyeballs, not a single US intelligence service or their lawmakers would tolerate that. Unless the US is okay with it. There is absolutely not a world where the US would be okay with Pakistan giving nuclear umbrellas to Middle Eastern states, unless the US themselves monitors it.

I agree with Dr Rabia Akhtar's analysis on the topic

A Longstanding Alliance, Formalized – Not Transformed

On 17 September 2025, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the latter being the only nuclear-armed Muslim-majority country, signed a Strategic Mutual Defense Agreement in Riyadh. The pact’s key clause declares that “any aggression against either country shall be considered an aggression against both”. On its face, this is strong language echoing collective-defense pledges like NATO’s Article 5. However, it largely codifies an existing strategic partnership rather than marking a radical new commitment. Pakistani forces have been present in Saudi Arabia for decades (currently ~1,500–2,000 troops) in training, advisory, and security roles. The two states have enjoyed close military ties since the 1960s, when Pakistani troops first deployed to protect Saudi frontiers during regional conflicts. Over the years, Pakistan has trained over 8000-10,000 Saudi military personnel and periodically stationed units in the kingdom. In short, the new pact formalizes a deep alliance that has historical roots, rather than creating one out of thin air.

It is also worth noting that Pakistan has entered such formal defense pacts before and none led to automatic entanglement in wars or any “nuclear umbrella” guarantee. In the Cold War era, Pakistan pivoted from non-alignment to join U.S.-led alliances. It signed a Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement with Washington in 1954 and became a member of the Southeast Asia Collective Defence Treaty (SEATO) the same year. The following year, Pakistan joined Iran, Turkey and others in the Baghdad Pact (later CENTO). Crucially, these 1950s alliances did not yield any automatic U.S. military intervention on Pakistan’s behalf in its conflicts. Indeed, when Pakistan fought wars with India in 1965 and 1971, its Western allies did not come rushing to its defense despite those pacts, a reminder that defense agreements often come with political caveats and context. For Pakistan, the calculus of alliance during the Cold War was shaped less by fears of Soviet or Chinese aggression than by the imperative to counter India. The new Saudi-Pakistan pact similarly must be understood in context: it is primarily a political signal of solidarity and strategic cooperation, rather than an unconditional war guarantee.

What the New Pact Does (and Doesn’t) Say

The text of the agreement (as released in official statements) emphasizes strengthening cooperation and “joint deterrence against any aggression”. It pledges that an attack on one will be seen as an attack on both, reflecting a commitment to consult and support each other in crises. Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman hailed the pact as a culmination of years of discussions, institutionalizing their long-standing security cooperation. Notably, a senior Saudi official stressed this deal was “not a response to specific countries or specific events but rather an overdue formalization of deep ties. In other words, Riyadh portrays it as the natural evolution of a decades-old partnership, not a sudden alliance aimed at any one adversary.

Nowhere does the public agreement mention nuclear weapons, and Pakistani officials have consistently maintained that their nuclear arsenal is focused solely on deterring India. When Reuters directly asked a Saudi official whether Pakistan is now obliged to provide a “nuclear umbrella” to the kingdom, the official answered only that “this is a comprehensive defensive agreement that encompasses all military means.” That deliberately broad statement neither confirms nor denies any nuclear dimension. It suggests the pact covers all forms of military cooperation in general terms but it stops short of explicitly extending Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent to Saudi soil. Pakistan’s prior defense pacts never involved nuclear guarantees, and this one is no different.

Nothing in the stated pact magically converts Pakistan’s India-centric nuclear doctrine into a Middle East umbrella. There is no evidence that Islamabad has now re-targeted its strategic forces on Iran or Israel on Riyadh’s behalf.

No “Secret Nuclear Umbrella,” Despite Speculation

It is unsurprising that speculation has run wild in some quarters about possible secret clauses or understandings especially given the history of Saudi interest in nuclear capabilities. For years it has been rumored that Saudi Arabia bankrolled Pakistan’s nuclear program in the 1980s with an understanding it could gain access to warheads if ever needed. In 2024, journalist Bob Woodward even recounted in his book a conversation where Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman allegedly quipped to Senator Lindsey Graham, “I don’t need uranium to make a bomb. I will just buy one from Pakistan,” if Saudi Arabia ever required nuclear arms. Such anecdotes fuel the assumption that a de facto Saudi nuclear cover exists.

However, one should be cautious about taking these interpretations at face value. Nothing publicly stated by officials on either side explicitly indicates a nuclear-sharing arrangement. In fact, Saudi Arabia officially maintains that it does not seek nuclear weapons and is only pursuing civil nuclear energy (though it insists on developing domestic uranium enrichment, which keeps options open). The new defense pact, as released to the public, sticks to generalities about “strengthening joint deterrence” and cooperation. It pointedly makes no mention of any specific weapons systems. Islamabad would be extremely wary of any commitment that dilutes its control over its nuclear arsenal or entangles it in conflicts beyond its primary focus. In essence, the nuclear umbrella idea remains speculative, a dramatic extrapolation unsupported by the actual text of the pact or Pakistan’s stated doctrine.

A Region on Edge: Why the Pact Happened Now

If the Saudi-Pakistani defense agreement was a long time in the making, its signing was undoubtedly accelerated by recent regional turmoil. The Middle East’s strategic landscape has been shaken by war and unprecedented incidents over the past two years. Most notably, Israel’s widening war against Hamas and its allies has spilled beyond Gaza’s borders, jolting neighboring states. On September 9, 2025, Israel launched a shocking airstrike on Doha, Qatar, targeting exiled Hamas leaders during ceasefire talks. This strike on Qatari soil, a close U.S. ally hosting the region’s largest American air base, infuriated Arab countries. The strike reshaped the region’s diplomatic calculus, prompting Gulf leaders to question whether any state was beyond the war’s reach. Qatar, feeling violated, rushed to bolster its own security: within days it was finalizing an enhanced defense pact with the United States, explicitly “expedited” by the Israeli strike on its capital. The entire Gulf region felt new urgency to close ranks. Arab and Islamic states convened emergency summits to back Qatar, and the Gulf Cooperation Council discussed activating a joint defense mechanism after this unprecedented provocation. In this climate, Saudi Arabia’s signing of a mutual defense pact with Pakistan was widely seen as a signal to Israel (and perhaps to the U.S. as well). The timing was no coincidence: it came one week after the Doha attack, at a moment when Gulf leaders were openly worrying about the reliability of their traditional Western security guarantor.

At the same time, threats from Yemen have escalated, further rattling Saudi security. Yemen’s Houthi rebels (Iran-aligned and fiercely anti-Israel) have, since late 2023, been launching drones and long-range missiles toward Israel in solidarity with Gaza. Some of those missiles have traversed Saudi airspace. In early September 2025, two Houthi-fired ballistic missiles aimed at Israel broke apart in mid-flight over Saudi territory. In recent years, Saudi Arabia has faced a persistent threat from Yemen’s Houthi movement, which has repeatedly launched ballistic missiles and drones toward the Kingdom. Saudi defenses have intercepted projectiles aimed at major cities, including attempts near Makkah and Jeddah in 2017 and 2019 . These attacks underscore the Houthis’ willingness to target sensitive sites, reinforcing Riyadh’s sense of vulnerability and the imperative to strengthen its defense partnerships. It is little wonder that Saudi Arabia would seek to reinforce its defense partnerships amidst such dangers. Riyadh has watched as Israel’s war has expanded to multiple fronts (striking Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and even Iran’s soil in recent months). Meanwhile, the United States, though still the Gulf’s primary patron, has been increasingly absorbed elsewhere and politically divided at home. Gulf states are frankly nervous about how much they can count on Washington when crises multiply. All these factors provide important context for why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan chose this moment to seal a formal defense pact.

In essence, the pact is as much about geopolitics and signaling as about bilateral ties.

Signaling Solidarity ≠ Blank Check for War

Despite the bold rhetoric of “one for all, all for one,” it’s critical to keep this pact in perspective. Defense cooperation agreements, especially between asymmetrical partners, often serve to signal unity and deter common threats rather than bind each party to automatic military action in every scenario. The Saudi-Pakistani statement itself frames the pact as “a shared commitment… to enhance security and achieve peace in the region”, aimed at joint deterrence. That phrasing suggests the primary goal is to dissuade aggressors through a show of solidarity. It does not mean Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are obligating themselves to launch full-scale attacks on any adversary at the drop of a hat. In practice, such arrangements leave room for political decision-making.

For example, if a crisis erupted between Saudi Arabia and Iran tomorrow, Pakistan would likely evaluate its own national interests and the cause of the conflict before jumping in. (Notably, Pakistan refused to join the Saudi-led military intervention in Yemen in 2015, despite Riyadh’s requests, because its parliament decided Pakistan must remain neutral in that war, a precedent showing Islamabad is not a rubber stamp for Saudi wishes. Conversely, if Pakistan were to have a skirmish with India (as occurred in May 2025), Saudi Arabia’s support might be diplomatic or economic rather than direct military involvement, given Riyadh’s own priorities and its growing ties with New Delhi. Both parties will calibrate their responses case by case, pact or no pact. This pact powerfully affirms brotherhood and could deter opportunistic aggression, but it does not automatically launch missiles.

Indeed, the political significance of this pact may outweigh its immediate military utility. It sends multiple messages: reassuring Saudi citizens (and the wider Muslim world) that Pakistan “has the Kingdom’s back” at a fraught time; warning Israel (and any others) that Saudi Arabia is not isolated even as it pursues diplomatic opening, it has big friends with big armies; and perhaps nudging the United States to take Gulf security concerns more seriously lest regional states make alternative arrangements. Yet for all its significance, the pact is not a revolutionary shift. It does not alter Pakistan’s fundamental security doctrine, nor does it drag Saudi Arabia into Pakistan’s disputes by default. The real work begins now: clarifying expectations and limits so that both countries understand how to handle scenarios that might invoke the pact. But absent a direct, extreme threat to one of them, it is unlikely this agreement will force either country into hasty military adventures instigated by the other.

Keep the Alarm Bells Silent

There is nothing inherently alarmist about the Pakistan-Saudi mutual defense arrangement when viewed with historical and strategic context. Pakistan has forged similar formal alliances in the past, with the U.S. and within SEATO/CENTO, and those did not lead to automatic war guarantees or any sharing of nuclear weapons. This new pact largely reaffirms a partnership that has existed informally for generations. It comes at a time of extraordinary turbulence in the Middle East, serving as a timely statement of unity and resolve amid regional conflicts. But signaling solidarity is not the same as issuing a blank check of military intervention. Islamabad is not offering Riyadh a covert “nuclear button,” and Riyadh is not signing up to fight in Kashmir, such drastic interpretations are far beyond what has been announced. Defense cooperation ≠ automatic war pledge, and signaling ≠ nuclear guarantee. In keeping this development in perspective, we can recognize its strategic importance without exaggerating its immediate consequences. Rather than sounding alarm bells, observers should watch how Pakistan and Saudi Arabia implement and clarify this pact in practice. It is a symbolic shield of brotherhood, not a sword rattling for the next war.
 
If Pakistan does the dirty deed of terrorist attacks on Bharat, now power in the world can stop India from punishing Pakistan again. Kar lo jo pact wact sign karne hain.. The punishment will be harsher then the previous one. The preist king will make sure of that.
 
If Pakistan does the dirty deed of terrorist attacks on Bharat, now power in the world can stop India from punishing Pakistan again. Kar lo jo pact wact sign karne hain.. The punishment will be harsher then the previous one. The preist king will make sure of that.
Bro wakeup to reality, now the chances of getting Indian occupied Kashmir is at all time high now that India has been cornered and Pak has emerged.

Need 5 more years of Modi so that he can do the decisive blow to India.
 
Bro wakeup to reality, now the chances of getting Indian occupied Kashmir is at all time high now that India has been cornered and Pak has emerged.

Need 5 more years of Modi so that he can do the decisive blow to India.
if you kill indians again after asking to recite kalma. it will be triple kuttai in OP Sindoor part 2.
 
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Bro wakeup to reality, now the chances of getting Indian occupied Kashmir is at all time high now that India has been cornered and Pak has emerged.

Need 5 more years of Modi so that he can do the decisive blow to India.

Brother, remember the converts will always be at the bottom, selling their soul to the Chinese, Arabs or the Americans it makes no difference. A beggar will always at the bottom.

Pakistan's issue has nothing to do with Kashmir, their avg citizens get almost no economic benefits as their military cannot be overthrown and will always remain in power. Pakistan is gone forever, no coming back...
 
Many Indian soldiers were put to their deaths in the last two days in Kashmir.

Indian media has so far maintained some silence and not went into war mode.

They are getting pumped badly. So far no Pakistani chocolates found.
 
Many Indian soldiers were put to their deaths in the last two days in Kashmir.

Indian media has so far maintained some silence and not went into war mode.

They are getting pumped badly. So far no Pakistani chocolates found.

India also lost around 250 soldiers (including the Rafale pilots) during Operation Tandoor.

Indian military have been having a bad time ever since chaiwala assumed power. :inti
 
The PK army is being used by the Saudis. The criminal House of Saud has backed the murder of our Palestinian brothers by Netanyahu. Now they have kacked their chaddis because the bases they have given to the West are the ones being used to attack them,if they fall out of line. The beghairati of Qataris is on an unmatched scale- surely they should have kicked out the Americans and British next day. The saddest part is that they see Iran as the biggest threat and Iran will still see the Arabs as their biggest enemy and the Zionists laugh all the way to the bank. Loser still dont understand who the real enemy is.
 
I was expected Saudi Arabia to save Pakistan from Abhishek Sharma.

The man who destroyed the Pakistani bowlers one at a time. Brahmos of the Indian Cricket Team. Abhishek Sharma

:klopp :kp
 
Doobte ko tinke ka sahara, sadly this is what Pakistan has become. Chaaploosi, selling their soul, nation and army to a new master every few months has become a source of pride for the defeated awaam.
 
Brother, remember the converts will always be at the bottom, selling their soul to the Chinese, Arabs or the Americans it makes no difference. A beggar will always at the bottom.

Pakistan's issue has nothing to do with Kashmir, their avg citizens get almost no economic benefits as their military cannot be overthrown and will always remain in power. Pakistan is gone forever, no coming back...
Kashmir banega Pakistan,
Mit ke rahega Hindustaan!

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: 🤡 🤡
 
The PK army is being used by the Saudis. The criminal House of Saud has backed the murder of our Palestinian brothers by Netanyahu. Now they have kacked their chaddis because the bases they have given to the West are the ones being used to attack them,if they fall out of line. The beghairati of Qataris is on an unmatched scale- surely they should have kicked out the Americans and British next day. The saddest part is that they see Iran as the biggest threat and Iran will still see the Arabs as their biggest enemy and the Zionists laugh all the way to the bank. Loser still dont understand who the real enemy is.

I said it few weeks ago, Qataris are just Houthis in Gucci. The Saudis aren't much different. I fully understand their insecurities as a nation with a belligerent, US backed Israel openly calling for Jewish land expansion and a Shia Iran regime challenging them for regional dominance.

The last thing Saudis would want is to be pulled into an India-Pakistan conflict which is why there has been no statement issued on this matter by any of their leaders so far while the Pakistanis have gone on to already declare that Saudi soldiers would be ready to battle India. India is stronger than Israel and Iran combined and Saudis with all their development concentrated in 2-3 cities, all of which remain within the comfortable range of our warships, fighter jets and missiles cannot even in dreams wish to antagonize a friendly nation.

That being said, India fully respects Saudi's right to defend itself from Israel & Iran backed militants. Pakistan gives them soldiers on the ground in the Middle East in exchange for Riyals and a 20% lifetime discount at Arabian Oud. We have to be ok with it.
 
Brother, remember the converts will always be at the bottom, selling their soul to the Chinese, Arabs or the Americans it makes no difference. A beggar will always at the bottom.

Pakistan's issue has nothing to do with Kashmir, their avg citizens get almost no economic benefits as their military cannot be overthrown and will always remain in power. Pakistan is gone forever, no coming back...


Reality is that the biggest converts are Hindus. They converted to Islam and Christianity over the last few centuries, and the ones left today try to repackage themselves as fluid atheist types and pretend reincarnation and monkey gods was all allegorical.
 
Many Indian soldiers were put to their deaths in the last two days in Kashmir.

Indian media has so far maintained some silence and not went into war mode.

They are getting pumped badly. So far no Pakistani chocolates found.
Oh, I was not aware of that. The indians here saying everything is shining in Kashmir now. Maybe @followed can share more information?
 
Oh, I was not aware of that. The indians here saying everything is shining in Kashmir now. Maybe @followed can share more information?
Nothing is shining anywhere in India, never mind Indian occupied Kashmir.


It is a complete basket case of a country. Last week I read that monkey gangs were kidnapping kid, today woman died after hindu priest told her to drink toilet water to cure her illness. This is the reality of the country and the mentality of its people, despite what BJP IT cell says.
 
Reality is that the biggest converts are Hindus. They converted to Islam and Christianity over the last few centuries, and the ones left today try to repackage themselves as fluid atheist types and pretend reincarnation and monkey gods was all allegorical.

It is what it is Cap, you always be a second class citizen in front of an Arab. If you happy with worshiping the Arabs God as a second class citizen that is your choice...
 
It is what it is Cap, you always be a second class citizen in front of an Arab. If you happy with worshiping the Arabs God as a second class citizen that is your choice...

Indians are second class citizens everywhere. It is codified in your very culture. You should become a Muslim, that way you are only a second class citizen after Allah. Arabs, Brits, Aussies doesn't mean anything once you understand this. 🙏
 
There's a lot of confusion over this and understandably so.

Pakistan will NOT need Saudi to help against any war with India. Pakistan alone is enough for India as we saw recently.

This is an extra security initiative by Saudi who have realised the Zionist Arab leaders are NO longer needed by Zionists, hence the attack on Qatar.

We are entering a new phase of geo-politics in the world. The messianic Zionist nutters believe the end times are near now. They want a world war, the Arab leaders know this so want to secure nukes as self defence.
 
Brother, remember the converts will always be at the bottom, selling their soul to the Chinese, Arabs or the Americans it makes no difference. A beggar will always at the bottom.

Pakistan's issue has nothing to do with Kashmir, their avg citizens get almost no economic benefits as their military cannot be overthrown and will always remain in power. Pakistan is gone forever, no coming back...
India win a game of cricket and the rats crawl out of their nests.
 
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Indians are second class citizens everywhere. It is codified in your very culture. You should become a Muslim, that way you are only a second class citizen after Allah. Arabs, Brits, Aussies doesn't mean anything once you understand this. 🙏

Yeah but Cap you are a second class citizen to the caucasian brits by residence and second class in general to the Arabs who's God you worship.

That's a double whammy together which is worse..

I hope you understand this 🙏
 
Indians are second class citizens everywhere. It is codified in your very culture. You should become a Muslim, that way you are only a second class citizen after Allah. Arabs, Brits, Aussies doesn't mean anything once you understand this. 🙏
It is what it is Cap, you always be a second class citizen in front of an Arab. If you happy with worshiping the Arabs God as a second class citizen that is your choice...
Nothing is shining anywhere in India, never mind Indian occupied Kashmir.


It is a complete basket case of a country. Last week I read that monkey gangs were kidnapping kid, today woman died after hindu priest told her to drink toilet water to cure her illness. This is the reality of the country and the mentality of its people, despite what BJP IT cell says.

Guys guys, why don't you all convert to Christianity .. that way you won't have such rich material to insult each other with daily, be it monkey gods or arab gods or whatever, not to mention you get free wine and bread samples every Sunday.

Sign up before Judgment Day !
 
Yeah but Cap you are a second class citizen to the caucasian brits by residence and second class in general to the Arabs who's God you worship.

That's a double whammy together which is worse..

I hope you understand this 🙏

But unlike you I don't care what the caucasian Brits or non-religious Arabs think. Your whole world centres around integrating and keeping your head low on foreign shores, mine doesn't.
 
Not sure if OP is actually praising or bashing Pakistan? Is he trying to say Pakistan cant take on India alone and hence need Saudi's help? LMAO

The thing is, India never starts aggression. However, if Pakistan continues its cross border terrorism and perpetrates Pahalgam type attacks again, Operation Sindoor type incident and ghar me ghooske maarna will continue as well, Saudis or no Saudis.

Modi is Indian PM...remember?

:kp
 
Not sure if OP is actually praising or bashing Pakistan? Is he trying to say Pakistan cant take on India alone and hence need Saudi's help? LMAO

The thing is, India never starts aggression. However, if Pakistan continues its cross border terrorism and perpetrates Pahalgam type attacks again, Operation Sindoor type incident and ghar me ghooske maarna will continue as well, Saudis or no Saudis.

Modi is Indian PM...remember?

:kp
Nothing to do with India, only Indian relationship with Saudi may be affected.
 
Guys guys, why don't you all convert to Christianity .. that way you won't have such rich material to insult each other with daily, be it monkey gods or arab gods or whatever, not to mention you get free wine and bread samples every Sunday.

Sign up before Judgment Day !
What do you mean by ‘Arab Gods’? It seems you lack a basic understanding of the Muslim faith, yet you are inviting people to Christianity. This is yet another example of why many people are converting from Christianity to Islam.
 
What do you mean by ‘Arab Gods’? It seems you lack a basic understanding of the Muslim faith, yet you are inviting people to Christianity. This is yet another example of why many people are converting from Christianity to Islam.

That was my lame attempt at humour.

I was echoing romalli_roti's frequent calling out of Islam as an Arab religion.
 
That was my lame attempt at humour.

I was echoing romalli_roti's frequent calling out of Islam as an Arab religion.
That is probably even worse. I thought you were writng in ignorance, but knowing thing and then mocking a religion is not on at all. You should take that back.
 
I thought you were writng in ignorance, but knowing thing and then mocking a religion is not on at all. You should take that back.

Your ability to get offended so easily is a sign of weak faith in your religion. Grow a thick skin.
 
Your ability to get offended so easily is a sign of weak faith in your religion. Grow a thick skin.
I have never spoken disrespectfully about other religions, and I expect the same courtesy from others. This is basic respect that everyone should understand. You don't worry about my faith's condition.
 
That was my lame attempt at humour.

I was echoing romalli_roti's frequent calling out of Islam as an Arab religion.

It's only really referred to as an Arab religion by Indians usually. That might be because Hinduism is generally considered localised to the subcontinent and the general belief in India is that is how religions should be.

Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are considered universal and not culture bound by most everyone else.
 
But unlike you I don't care what the caucasian Brits or non-religious Arabs think. Your whole world centres around integrating and keeping your head low on foreign shores, mine doesn't.

But you do care Cap otherwise you wouldn't tail lick and believe the Arab's God despite them Arabs looking down on you as a convert from the Indian sub continent.
 
Trump to meet with Pakistan and other Muslim nations tomorrow. I think to discuss Gaza.

Some analysts who have contacts close to army say that Pakistan wants to take responsibility and command of an Arab army for Gaza security post ceasefire. Palestinian Authority is keen for it too, Hamas is likely to.lay down arms and allow this force to take over.
 
It's only really referred to as an Arab religion by Indians usually. That might be because Hinduism is generally considered localised to the subcontinent and the general belief in India is that is how religions should be.

Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are considered universal and not culture bound by most everyone else.
Tbh even though we disagree with that statement but most human beings if given a binary choice between a so called Arab God or Monkey God would think you are pulling their leg with Monkey God. An Indian poster @Tera Gawaandi outlined the psychology of most Indians and why they need to taunt. His opinion was that it is deeply embarrassing to worship monkey god so many Hindus lash out. It's a perspective I hadn't considered before as it's not something Hindus publicize in West. I mean we know about diwali and yoga, but how many Hindus have you met who talk about monkey and rat gods? It's not openly discussed. What he said could have merit. I think those that lash out feel some sense of embarrassment.

@RexRex knew what he was doing. I think he has rejected the monkey god himself, so was taking a subtle dig. He is one step closer to us, God willing he will take another step and embrace us.
 
It's only really referred to as an Arab religion by Indians usually. That might be because Hinduism is generally considered localised to the subcontinent and the general belief in India is that is how religions should be.

Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are considered universal and not culture bound by most everyone else.

Islam is for everyone. Not just Arabs.

This is something these low-IQ sanghis do not understand.
 
@RexRex knew what he was doing. I think he has rejected the monkey god himself, so was taking a subtle dig. He is one step closer to us, God willing he will take another step and embrace us.

Well since you asked, both religions come off as irrational to me. Just an opinion, no offense. One doesn't have more merit than the other, like you think it does. In any case, you believe in Islam not because you were reasoned into it but because you were born into it. Ergo you should always keep an open mind. I doubt you have studied all the world's religions in detail.
 
Tbh even though we disagree with that statement but most human beings if given a binary choice between a so called Arab God or Monkey God would think you are pulling their leg with Monkey God. An Indian poster @Tera Gawaandi outlined the psychology of most Indians and why they need to taunt. His opinion was that it is deeply embarrassing to worship monkey god so many Hindus lash out. It's a perspective I hadn't considered before as it's not something Hindus publicize in West. I mean we know about diwali and yoga, but how many Hindus have you met who talk about monkey and rat gods? It's not openly discussed. What he said could have merit. I think those that lash out feel some sense of embarrassment.

@RexRex knew what he was doing. I think he has rejected the monkey god himself, so was taking a subtle dig. He is one step closer to us, God willing he will take another step and embrace us.
I agree. As Religion 101 would say, Hinduism is a pagan type religion...a bit like the old Egyptian, Roman, Greek religions. Conceptually based on worshipping nature and natural forces which were awe inspiring and inexplicable at the time. It's probably the only pagan religion that's survived from the time. Essentially because of periodic reinterpretation by Gurus, thinkers and reformers who've kept refining and modernising the core concepts.

Islam, Christianity are more new age religions. Formless, undefinable gods who are essentially gods of the gaps science cannot explain today. They're still stuck with a few old concepts but at least mostly usable.

We need newer religions today that are more modern and reflect how humanity has moved forward in it's thinking and mindset. Buddhism is okay but it doesn't have the charismatic preachers and doesn't have enough fire in it to attract people - too fuzzy and woolly.
 
Well since you asked, both religions come off as irrational to me. Just an opinion, no offense. One doesn't have more merit than the other, like you think it does. In any case, you believe in Islam not because you were reasoned into it but because you were born into it. Ergo you should always keep an open mind. I doubt you have studied all the world's religions in detail.
No i haven't. Well not the dharmic ones anyway, I have tried to study Hinduism in detail but it doesn't really resonate with me. Although you will disagree and bring up that one comment I said in the past, I have immense respect for the teachings of Hinduism I have read about, I find the practices odd and although the stories are myths, they are difficult to penetrate and find the underlying guidance, at least for me. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, I have studied to a reasonable extent, although admittedly any study will be with an Islamic bias; it is hard to be totally objective. This inherent bias is why I don't like the Zakir Naik style of comparative religion. Islam itself is a deep ocean of various traditions. You need to study it in detail and remain open-minded within the tradition. My Islamic beliefs are different from what I was born into; I have definitely reasoned into them.

Not offended by your opinion. If you found Islam to be rational, you wouldn't be a Christian just as we Muslims find the concept of trinity totally irrational. It is what it is, we won't all believe the same things.
 
Feel sorry for the poor guy. Most Indian Muslims do carry that chip on their shoulder and would be pretty hurt to be associated with Pakistan. Unfortunately, many of them...at least in public have to appear to be 'more patriotic than thou' and abuse Pakistan that extra bit. Not something that should happen but I can't deny that it exists.

Wonder why…??? Hhhmmmm…

Lets see, it cant be because of their faith can it?? must be something else….after all the santi’s are peace lovin’
 
I agree. As Religion 101 would say, Hinduism is a pagan type religion...a bit like the old Egyptian, Roman, Greek religions. Conceptually based on worshipping nature and natural forces which were awe inspiring and inexplicable at the time. It's probably the only pagan religion that's survived from the time. Essentially because of periodic reinterpretation by Gurus, thinkers and reformers who've kept refining and modernising the core concepts.

Islam, Christianity are more new age religions. Formless, undefinable gods who are essentially gods of the gaps science cannot explain today. They're still stuck with a few old concepts but at least mostly usable.

We need newer religions today that are more modern and reflect how humanity has moved forward in it's thinking and mindset. Buddhism is okay but it doesn't have the charismatic preachers and doesn't have enough fire in it to attract people - too fuzzy and woolly.
I have become open to perenneliasm/traditionalism not a believer but definitley open to considering it. It argues that that there is a primordial or perenial tradition that underlines all faiths.

Many Muslim scholars talk about this belief system; the most famous is Guenon. He talks a lot abotu Hinduism but I found it difficult to read his writings. He argued that Hindu metaphysics remained one of the purest sources of the primordial tradition.

Anyway, the underlying philosophy is around the transcendent unity of all religions. As long as you pick a path, understand the underlying teachings and practice it.

I think it would be something that would work well in place of your new religion. Recognize that all religions are diverse outer forms of one truth and people just get on with it. Although for an athiest like yourself that initial jump may be still be one jump too far.
 
I have become open to perenneliasm/traditionalism not a believer but definitley open to considering it. It argues that that there is a primordial or perenial tradition that underlines all faiths.

Many Muslim scholars talk about this belief system; the most famous is Guenon. He talks a lot abotu Hinduism but I found it difficult to read his writings. He argued that Hindu metaphysics remained one of the purest sources of the primordial tradition.

Anyway, the underlying philosophy is around the transcendent unity of all religions. As long as you pick a path, understand the underlying teachings and practice it.

I think it would be something that would work well in place of your new religion. Recognize that all religions are diverse outer forms of one truth and people just get on with it. Although for an athiest like yourself that initial jump may be still be one jump too far.
I think genuine belief in a religion and acceptance that all religions lead to the same thing are a bit too difficult to reconcile for most believers. If there's no exclusivity to your religion and belief that it's the clear true path to God and all the good stuff after death, then eventually that religion fades away...a bit like the Church of England. Religion needs to be a bit like supporting a team. Nobody 'just' follows Football or Cricket. They have to follow a team.

That's why I think we need a new religion reflecting the beliefs we've now developed - equality, personal freedoms, sanctity of life above all...combining the good stuff from the older religions - formless, forgiving gods who reward good deeds in this life with benefits in the next life.

Not for me or the likes of me but for those whom religion and belief helps.
 
I think genuine belief in a religion and acceptance that all religions lead to the same thing are a bit too difficult to reconcile for most believers. If there's no exclusivity to your religion and belief that it's the clear true path to God and all the good stuff after death, then eventually that religion fades away...a bit like the Church of England. Religion needs to be a bit like supporting a team. Nobody 'just' follows Football or Cricket. They have to follow a team.

That's why I think we need a new religion reflecting the beliefs we've now developed - equality, personal freedoms, sanctity of life above all...combining the good stuff from the older religions - formless, forgiving gods who reward good deeds in this life with benefits in the next life.

Not for me or the likes of me but for those whom religion and belief helps.
I am finding it difficult to reconcile them too. The differences seem to wide too so far. From an Islamic perspective the finality of the religion and exclusivity is one of the core concepts. However there are some serious and notable scholars who seem confident that they can be reconciled. I guess I will have to study their works to see if I arrive at the same conclusion eventually.
 
Why the Pakistan-Saudi Arabia defence pact is unsettling India

When Shehbaz Sharif, Pakistan's prime minister, clasped Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Riyadh last week, the symbolism was unmistakable.

The embrace followed the signing of a "strategic mutual defence agreement", bringing the Islamic world's only nuclear-armed state closer to the Gulf's most ambitious monarchy.

A senior Saudi official told Reuters that the pact was merely an "institutionalisation of long-standing and deep cooperation". But many in India see it differently.

Despite Delhi's cultivated warmth with Riyadh, the pact lands amid heightened hostility with Pakistan, including a four-day conflict earlier this year. Nuclear-armed neighbours India and Pakistan have fought multiple wars and clashes over Kashmir, making any move by Saudi to underwrite Pakistan's military a direct concern.

What unsettles Indian analysts the most is the pact's commitment that "any aggression against either country shall be considered an aggression against both".

"Riyadh knew India would construe the Saudi-Pakistan pact as a direct threat to its security, yet it went ahead," Brahma Chellaney, an Indian strategist, posted on X.

"The move reflects not Pakistan's strength - it remains on the brink of bankruptcy - but Saudi Arabia's ambitions", he says. Binding a "chronically dependent" partner, he argues, gives Riyadh both manpower and nuclear "insurance", while demonstrating to India, Washington and others that it will chart its own path.

Former Indian foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal called the pact a "grave misstep" by Saudi Arabia, warning that this could have serious implications for India's national security.

"A politically unstable and economically broken Pakistan as a security provider is a dangerous proposition. Saudi Arabia knows this will be construed in India as a threat to India's security," Mr Sibal posted on X. "Given the tensions between Pakistan and India, this Saudi step is strategically most adventurous."

India's Narendra Modi-led government has been more circumspect, with a foreign ministry spokesman noting that the government will "study its [the pact's] implications for national security and regional and global stability". India also hoped that the strategic partnership between India and Saudi Arabia would "keep in mind mutual interests and sensitivities".

Not all analysts are alarmed, saying Delhi may be overstating the risks since Riyadh values balanced ties - India is its second-largest trading partner and a major buyer of Saudi oil.

Michael Kugelman, a foreign policy analyst, cautions against over-reading the agreement. It "does not hinder India in a direct way", he told the BBC. Saudi Arabia, with its own extensive ties to India, is "not about to engage in hostile retaliatory acts against India", he said.

Still, by embedding Pakistan in the security architecture of the Middle East, the deal "checkmates India" and leaves its neighbour anchored to three patrons - China, Turkey and now Saudi Arabia, Mr Kugelman said. China and Turkey supplied weapons to Pakistan in its recent conflict with India.

Others argue that the real significance of the pact lies less in any immediate threat to India and more in how it reshapes regional alignments.

Husain Haqqani, a former Pakistani ambassador who is currently a scholar at Washington DC's Hudson Institute and the Anwar Gargash Diplomatic Academy in Abu Dhabi, told the BBC that India's concerns span "multiple fronts".

He warned that the pact could make Saudi Arabia what the US was to Pakistan during the Cold War - "a country with the economic muscle to help Pakistan build its military to compete with India".

Much depends, Mr Haqqani notes, on how the pact defines "aggression" and "aggressor" and whether Riyadh and Islamabad see eye to eye. He also cautioned it could strain India's hard-won economic and diplomatic ties with Riyadh.

But not everyone sees the pact as a game-changer.

"This pact is simply the formalisation of a long-standing Saudi-Pakistan understanding that goes back to the 1960s," says Md. Muddassir Quamar of the Centre for West Asian Studies at Delhi's Jawaharlal Nehru University.

Indeed, the two countries share a resilient relationship rooted in defence ties - from Pakistani troop deployments in the 1960s to commandos helping quell the 1979 Mecca mosque siege.

Riyadh has since bought Pakistani weapons, relied on its officers to build up the Saudi Air Force, and cultivated Pakistan as both an ideological ally and security partner. In 2017 Riyadh had also tapped a retired Pakistani army chief to lead its Saudi-sponsored anti-ISIS coalition.

Mr Haqqani notes that Saudi political, economic and military support has underpinned this reliance for decades.

"Since the 1970s, Saudi Arabia has consistently backed Islamabad, siding with it during the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, extending economic aid in times of crisis, allowing deferred oil payments, and maintaining a close military partnership," he says.

Beyond the longstanding alliance, experts point to a bigger trigger: declining faith in the US security umbrella and growing doubt that it can - or will - defend the Gulf in a crisis.

Israel's recent attack, which rattled Qatar and other Gulf states, reinforced Riyadh's doubts - compounded by its long-running rivalry with Iran - about relying solely on Washington.

The deal is less about battlefield commitments than signalling intent, says Ahmed Aboudouh, associate fellow at Chatham House and senior researcher at Emirate Policy Center.

"It is designed to convey a message that Saudi Arabia is diversifying its security partnership without jeopardising its defence cooperation with the US," Mr Aboudouh told the BBC.

"Although the operational depth of the deal is unclear, it indicates a shift in Saudi Arabia's threat perception, seeing both Iran and Israel as a threat, and benefitting from Pakistan's nuclear power status to enhance deterrence."

For India, the pact may carry wider geopolitical echoes. As Mr Aboudouh notes, India need not worry from a defence standpoint.

The real risk, he told the BBC, lies elsewhere: a broadened alliance could harden into an "Islamic Nato", complicating Delhi's 'Look West' strategy across trade, investment and strategic corridors in the Gulf.

For Pakistan, the pact leverages Saudi's financial clout to boost its military capabilities and Riyadh's soft power to secure wider political backing, leaving India to face not just Pakistan but a broader coalition of Muslim states, according to Mr Aboudouh.

Mr Kugelman says the pact tilts the regional balance in Pakistan's favour. India, which avoids formal alliances and has seen ties with Pakistan - a key US partner - nosedive again, will need to recalibrate.

"Certainly, it can count on close ties with Russia, Israel, the Gulf states and key Western partners like France," he adds. "But the issue is less about greater Indian vulnerabilities than Pakistan's growing strengths."

Even if the pact poses no immediate security threat to India, experts say it has not been good optics for Delhi diplomatically. How it ultimately plays out remains to be seen, and Delhi will be watching closely.

BBC
 
Why the Pakistan-Saudi Arabia defence pact is unsettling India



The real risk, he told the BBC, lies elsewhere: a broadened alliance could harden into an "Islamic Nato"
, complicating Delhi's 'Look West' strategy across trade, investment and strategic corridors in the Gulf.

For Pakistan, the pact leverages Saudi's financial clout to boost its military capabilities and Riyadh's soft power to secure wider political backing, leaving India to face not just Pakistan but a broader coalition of Muslim states, according to Mr Aboudouh.

Mr Kugelman says the pact tilts the regional balance in Pakistan's favour. India, which avoids formal alliances and has seen ties with Pakistan - a key US partner - nosedive again, will need to recalibrate.

"Certainly, it can count on close ties with Russia, Israel, the Gulf states and key Western partners like France," he adds. "But the issue is less about greater Indian vulnerabilities than Pakistan's growing strengths."

Even if the pact poses no immediate security threat to India, experts say it has not been good optics for Delhi diplomatically. How it ultimately plays out remains to be seen, and Delhi will be watching closely.

BBC


NATO is in fact the Unislamic Ummah. The non-Muslims actually took this concept from the Muslim concept of Ummah and collective defence.
 
The PK army is being used by the Saudis. The criminal House of Saud has backed the murder of our Palestinian brothers by Netanyahu. Now they have kacked their chaddis because the bases they have given to the West are the ones being used to attack them,if they fall out of line. The beghairati of Qataris is on an unmatched scale- surely they should have kicked out the Americans and British next day. The saddest part is that they see Iran as the biggest threat and Iran will still see the Arabs as their biggest enemy and the Zionists laugh all the way to the bank. Loser still dont understand who the real enemy is.

Thankfully your leader is now locked up his performance against India and indictment of cowardice compared to this recent skirmish and pmln performance where india not only getting chitar , embarrassing france has lost on the world stage and is being sanctioned today .

your leader Alongwith with stalling cpec and riling the Chinese, and gcc countries traditional friendly allies of pakistan who employ millions of pakistanis and give fuel on credit and aid.
Alongwith becoming the spokesman for a sanctioned terrorist state that abuses its minorities and abuses women and children most likely would have got pakistan sanctioned.
Who can remember your bonga leader turned up in Russia the day putin launched the ukrsine war even n korea and Chinese leaders would never be dumb enough to do that and they haven't signed up to usa aid programmes and imf bailouts like your leader did and then thought it wise to antagonise the world bodies.
a traitor and an agent provecteur whose job was to balkanise pakistan using the fitna of lar aur bar yaw afghan. The only guy who is saying there should be no operation against ttp and pakistan army has no right to stop it's territory being invaded from afghanistan. Same who settled 40000 of them back within our borders as our own people.

And why are you blaming Saudis solely on palestine your leader was married to and produce children with zionist family that were the progenitor of project israel . His former sala brother in law is a well known right wing zionist and islamaphobe we all saw his disgusting behaviour against sadiq khan in the mayoral election.

And you have to now agree with jan achakzai you saw what he stated about kpk government that they need removing since they can't secure the province and are in bed with those ttp where over 70% of attacks and fighters are coming from afghanistan didn't the taliban agree in doha agreement they won't let their soil be used to launch attacks in neighbouring countries and they won't commit terrorism.

And if it is racism against afghanis plz tell me why iran is way more brutal against Afghans than pakistan has ever been, look what they did to the afghans after israel bombed them majority of trojan horse inside iran working for mossad were these afghans and your leader wants open border.
 
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Thankfully your kanjar leader is now locked up his performance against India and indictment of cowardice compared to this recent skirmish and pmln performance where india not only getting chitar , embarrassing france has lost on the world stage and is being sanctioned today .

your leader Alongwith with stalling cpec and riling the Chinese, and gcc countries traditional friendly allies of pakistan who employ millions of pakistanis and give fuel on credit and aid.
Alongwith becoming the spokesman for namak haram a sanctioned terrorist state that abuses its minorities and abuses women and children most likely would have got pakistan sanctioned.
Who can remember your bonga leader turned up in Russia the day putin launched the ukrsine war even n korea and Chinese leaders would never be dumb enough to do that and they haven't signed up to usa aid programmes and imf bailouts like your leader did and then thought it wise to antagonise the world bodies.
a traitor and an agent provecteur whose job was to balkanise pakistan using the fitna of lar aur bar yaw afghan. The only guy who is saying there should be no operation against ttp and pakistan army has no right to stop it's territory being invaded from afghanistan. Same kanjar who settled 40000 of them back within our borders as our own people.

And why are you blaming Saudis solely on palestine your leader was married to and produce children with zionist family that were the progenitor of project israel . His former sala brother in law is a well known right wing zionist and islamaphobe we all saw his disgusting behaviour against sadiq khan in the mayoral election.

And you have to now agree with jan achakzai you saw what he stated about kpk government that they need removing since they can't secure the province and are in bed with those ttp where over 70% of attacks and fighters are coming from afghanistan didn't the taliban agree in doha agreement they won't let their soil be used to launch attacks in neighbouring countries and they won't commit terrorism.

And if it is racism against afghanis plz tell me why iran is way more brutal against Afghans than pakistan has ever been, look what they did to the afghans after israel bombed them majority of trojan horse inside iran working for mossad were these afghans and your leader wants open border.
LOL, Pakistan took advantage of the situation, Pakistan did not create any of the situation.
 
LOL, Pakistan took advantage of the situation, Pakistan did not create any of the situation.

Listen it's bad news for 2 mortal enemies of pakistan

One namak haram afghan fascism because trump wants bagram airbase I wouldn't be surprised if the northern alliance starts getting supported once again since there are many minerals there. And why should significant minority populations be enslaved by the ruling group and the female population imprisoned in their homes.

And 2 indians that come in form of another fascist ideology called hindutva the chitrol of your modi by pak armed forces and turning the operation tandoor into an epic owngoal and now trump going nuts and the western populations hating on indian stoodents and workers and countless cases of indians being beaten up and being victims of racism

With afghans it's worse now since they have made pakistan their enemy thanks to ttp and pti and without isi help like they had against ussr and nato good luck against that loon trump because if gaza and south lebanon are to go anything by the bombing will be huge and before you call pakistan a zionist agent there are countries in central asia , Turkey whole of middle east with actual usa bases and troops so dont play that card on pakistan if b21 fly over our airspace and attack namak haramstan already taliban have admitted usa drones and aircraft currently fly and monitor.

Because remember namak haram signed in doha they won't use their territory for terrorism or to attack neighbouring states which they have attacked.
And on top claiming to be islamic yet opium and marijuanna production has gone up and they have even come to paksistan and started growing it in balochistan and tribal areas.
 
@mazkhan I suspect Pakistan is happy for US to take Bagram. Munir has given Trump the go ahead from our side.

Taliban have came under the pro India spell. It's time they are dealt with by Pakistan.
 
@mazkhan I suspect Pakistan is happy for US to take Bagram. Munir has given Trump the go ahead from our side.

Taliban have came under the pro India spell. It's time they are dealt with by Pakistan.

This move by Trump comes after this deal. The aim to take Bagram is to attack Pakistan if Israel is involved in any future Saudi/Pak war. The Taliban are not pro Hindutva India, they want to improve their nation by having good relations with all. The TTP is pro India but wont ever be in the main Taliban government.

The problem for the Yanks is their citizens are tired of body bags returning weekly from abroad.
 
Thankfully your k


leader is now locked up his performance against India and indictment of cowardice compared to this recent skirmish and pmln performance where india not only getting chitar , embarrassing france has lost on the world stage and is being sanctioned today .

your leader Alongwith with stalling cpec and riling the Chinese, and gcc countries traditional friendly allies of pakistan who employ millions of pakistanis and give fuel on credit and aid.
Alongwith becoming the spokesman for namak haram a sanctioned terrorist state that abuses its minorities and abuses women and children most likely would have got pakistan sanctioned.
Who can remember your bonga leader turned up in Russia the day putin launched the ukrsine war even n korea and Chinese leaders would never be dumb enough to do that and they haven't signed up to usa aid programmes and imf bailouts like your leader did and then thought it wise to antagonise the world bodies.
a traitor and an agent provecteur whose job was to balkanise pakistan using the fitna of lar aur bar yaw afghan. The only guy who is saying there should be no operation against ttp and pakistan army has no right to stop it's territory being invaded from afghanistan. Same who settled 40000 of them back within our borders as our own people.

And why are you blaming Saudis solely on palestine your leader was married to and produce children with zionist family that were the progenitor of project israel . His former sala brother in law is a well known right wing zionist and islamaphobe we all saw his disgusting behaviour against sadiq khan in the mayoral election.

And you have to now agree with jan achakzai you saw what he stated about kpk government that they need removing since they can't secure the province and are in bed with those ttp where over 70% of attacks and fighters are coming from afghanistan didn't the taliban agree in doha agreement they won't let their soil be used to launch attacks in neighbouring countries and they won't commit terrorism.

And if it is racism against afghanis plz tell me why iran is way more brutal against Afghans than pakistan has ever been, look what they did to the afghans after israel bombed them majority of trojan horse inside iran working for mossad were these afghans and your leader wants open border.
Your shamelessness on full show. The guy has 80% support and look at your bhagora that ran away every time.
As far as Ind is concerned- it took the bravery of the Air force to keep our izzat. Where was Munir? The Airforce was not under his control and the beghairat allowed over PKs to be killed without killing a single Ind. Why didn't he reply? The coward was hiding and it took the brave Air chief to show the backbone we needed. At the same time NS and Crookec Nani couldn't utter a word. Beghairat dont run off and explain why they couldn't even condemn Modi. You and your POS were in cahoots with Modi
Apparently your chief has gone to London and Washington to Suck up to Trump and is begging from NS an extension, who is also has Sent NS to beg Trump to be allowed to chose. What beghairati that America rules PK because of your cowardice. Absolutely Not
 
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@mazkhan I suspect Pakistan is happy for US to take Bagram. Munir has given Trump the go ahead from our side.

Taliban have came under the pro India spell. It's time they are dealt with by Pakistan.
This move by Trump comes after this deal. The aim to take Bagram is to attack Pakistan if Israel is involved in any future Saudi/Pak war. The Taliban are not pro Hindutva India, they want to improve their nation by having good relations with all. The TTP is pro India but wont ever be in the main Taliban government.

The problem for the Yanks is their citizens are tired of body bags returning weekly from abroad.
Your beghairati on full show. The guy has 80% support and look at your bhagora that ran away every time.
As far as Ind is concerned- it took the bravery of the Air force to keep our izzat. Where was Munir? The Airforce was not under his control and the beghairat allowed over PKs to be killed without killing a single Ind. Why didn't he reply? The coward was hiding and it took the brave Air chief to show the backbone we needed. At the same time NS and Crookec Nani couldn't utter a word. Beghairat dont run off and explain why they couldn't even condemn Modi. You and your POS were in cahoots with Modi
Apparently your chief has gone to London and Washington to Suck up to Trump and is begging from NS an extension, who is also has Sent NS to beg Trump to be allowed to chose. What beghairati that America rules PK because of your cowardice. Absolutely Not
It will be spectacularly dumb, stupid and extremely shortsighted move for Pakistan to assist US in anyway in Afghanistan.

Absolutely agree with Dr Rabia Akhtar and her analysis.


Pakistan is lifting coffins on a daily basis due to its participation in the US-led war on Terror and if the idiot Generals of Pakistan Army make another mistake it may tear Pakistan apart!
 
Listen it's bad news for 2 mortal enemies of pakistan

One namak haram afghan fascism because trump wants bagram airbase I wouldn't be surprised if the northern alliance starts getting supported once again since there are many minerals there. And why should significant minority populations be enslaved by the ruling group and the female population imprisoned in their homes.

And 2 indians that come in form of another fascist ideology called hindutva the chitrol of your modi by pak armed forces and turning the operation tandoor into an epic owngoal and now trump going nuts and the western populations hating on indian stoodents and workers and countless cases of indians being beaten up and being victims of racism

With afghans it's worse now since they have made pakistan their enemy thanks to ttp and pti and without isi help like they had against ussr and nato good luck against that loon trump because if gaza and south lebanon are to go anything by the bombing will be huge and before you call pakistan a zionist agent there are countries in central asia , Turkey whole of middle east with actual usa bases and troops so dont play that card on pakistan if b21 fly over our airspace and attack namak haramstan already taliban have admitted usa drones and aircraft currently fly and monitor.

Because remember namak haram signed in doha they won't use their territory for terrorism or to attack neighbouring states which they have attacked.
And on top claiming to be islamic yet opium and marijuanna production has gone up and they have even come to paksistan and started growing it in balochistan and tribal areas.
I am not arguing any of that, credit where it is due, the current regime of Pakistan understood the situation and took full advantage of it in Pakistan's favor.
 
This move by Trump comes after this deal. The aim to take Bagram is to attack Pakistan if Israel is involved in any future Saudi/Pak war. The Taliban are not pro Hindutva India, they want to improve their nation by having good relations with all. The TTP is pro India but wont ever be in the main Taliban government.

The problem for the Yanks is their citizens are tired of body bags returning weekly from abroad.
Taliban have taken a real pro India stance and became a nuisance in the region. They are in cahoots with TTP

Pakistan cannot confront them directly because the loonies in Pakistan will take umbrage.

This is a convenient way to bring Afghans into line
 
@mazkhan I suspect Pakistan is happy for US to take Bagram. Munir has given Trump the go ahead from our side.

Taliban have came under the pro India spell. It's time they are dealt with by Pakistan.


They are not pro-India, they just don't trust Pakistan. This is the problem when you get get paindoo leaders, they are pretty easy to persuade everyone who isn't a pure Muslim like them must ergo be a kafir. So then they can justify killing Muslims on behalf of Kafirs. To them the Muslism who don't rule by their version of Sharia are all kafirs anyway.
 
Taliban have taken a real pro India stance and became a nuisance in the region. They are in cahoots with TTP

Pakistan cannot confront them directly because the loonies in Pakistan will take umbrage.

This is a convenient way to bring Afghans into line
The opposite is actually true.

The (Deobandi) Scholars in Pakistan are clearly calling out Afghan Taliban on their actions and unambiguously denouncing their support for TTP


I am saying "Deobandi" because Afghan Taliban are ideologically aligned to them in some ways.

It will be a colossal mistake of epic proportions for the state of Pakistan to then assist the American or randomly target Afghans inside Afghanistan but then Pakistan military has been making epic mistakes and even lost half of the country but this time their mistake will cost the integrity of Pakistan.

Pushtuns clearly warned against participating in US backed War-on-Terror, fools like Musharraf didn't listen and Pakistanees are lifting coffins on a daily basis, do not make an even bigger mistake when Pakistan Army is clearly stretched thin in Balochistan and KP

They are not pro-India, they just don't trust Pakistan. This is the problem when you get get paindoo leaders, they are pretty easy to persuade everyone who isn't a pure Muslim like them must ergo be a kafir. So then they can justify killing Muslims on behalf of Kafirs. To them the Muslism who don't rule by their version of Sharia are all kafirs anyway.

Golden words...

Pakistani military needs to understand the issue, it is clearly stretched and making mistake after mistake.
 
It is what it is Cap, you always be a second class citizen in front of an Arab. If you happy with worshiping the Arabs God as a second class citizen that is your choice...
No Muslims believes there an Arab God lol. Don't take everything from Bollywood. I understand that's where you guys get your information from.
 
It will be spectacularly dumb, stupid and extremely shortsighted move for Pakistan to assist US in anyway in Afghanistan.

Absolutely agree with Dr Rabia Akhtar and her analysis.


Pakistan is lifting coffins on a daily basis due to its participation in the US-led war on Terror and if the idiot Generals of Pakistan Army make another mistake it may tear Pakistan apart!
Munir has made promises to Trump and one of them seems to be that they will get the Airbase back. Its the reason why Munir and causing chaos in KP since 2022. Initially the plan was to divide and conquer the PTI and that has been successful but the people aren't buying it because IK is their leader and more recently, Munir has promised Trump with the Airbase. The Afghans are not budging and Munir is in a bind
 
They are not pro-India, they just don't trust Pakistan. This is the problem when you get get paindoo leaders, they are pretty easy to persuade everyone who isn't a pure Muslim like them must ergo be a kafir. So then they can justify killing Muslims on behalf of Kafirs. To them the Muslism who don't rule by their version of Sharia are all kafirs anyway.


They are Afghans and basically to them the creation of pakistan is like israel.

As for bagram listen usa doesn't need bagram to attack pakistan it could fly from the arabian sea or fly over any countries air space without permission whether its any gulf country iran or central asia or even india its got aircraft and equipment that are invisible to radars and can jam air defences your not gonna stop usa or nato airpower.

We all saw how Israel and usa bombed iran and literally controlled whole of iranian airspace with their leader in a basement wailing and crying.
 
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