Dr. Aafia Siddiqui Thread

[Down2Earth]

Why should Pak govt make efforts to save an terrorist. And yes she is wife of sheikh mohammad.

so if you're related to a terrorist, you wouldn't mind if they put you behind bars for 86 years?

 

[crazy4_cricket]

its 86 not 76

 

[ahsan88]

Yar the question is why such an uproar on Aafia. Why don't people come out on the streets for Zarina Marri and the around 1000 Baloch people who have been kidnapped by our "patriotic" agencies.

Is Zarina Marri not the daughter of Pakistan or is it not profitable to come out for them because they are not kidnapped by Americans.

We are such a hypocrites.

 

[Maula Jutt]

I dont understand a lot of things about her case. If she was such a threat, why make such hue and cry over her? They could have killed her in any of their numerous jails around the world a long time ago. USA doesn't really respect the laws of the land outside their country. 'War against terrorism' is their license to do pretty much anything they want. We all know that. Then why drag this for so long?

And if she isn't a terrorist, then why make a scene of her like this? USA spends a lot of money and effort to improve its image in Pakistan. Then why would they do something like this for no reason, when they know Siddiqui is held in high regard in Pak. If they have such solid proofs against her, then they could have used them to inform people in Pakistan. I'm sure majority would have dropped their support of her. Now, there are again anti-USA processions in different cities.

Her whole case, from the beginning till the end, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Also, people dont tire of telling us Aafia is the 'daughter of Pakistan' and should be rescued. But what about those 5 women who were buried alive in Baluchistan by the feudals a while back? What about numerous cases of honor killings throughout the country that aren't even reported? Are they not daughters of Pakistan?

 

[zimmz]

Then why drag this for so long?

How else the ignorant world will notice that USA is fighting for the great/holy cause of saving them from 'terrorists'? There must be some sort of drama/action to prove the worth of holy war. Killing right on the spot is not going to make headlines for long.

 

[saqlain]

Total ignorance or maybe it is convenient for everyone here to believe that she is innocent.

The biggest problem in Pakistan is education and most of the time people are not giving full knowledge of the matter. Ofcourse people will assume she is innocent because everyone is presented the view that she has nothing to do with terrorism and she is falsely accused fo everything. Please read the following:

Aafia Siddiqui, a US-educated Pakistani neuroscientist whose lawyers argued is mentally unstable, was sentenced to 86 years in prison in a New York district court for trying to shoot American soldiers in an Afghanistan police station two years ago. The saga of Ms. Siddiqui, a former student at Brandeis University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), has been closely followed in her home country, where she is widely viewed as innocent.

The events leading to her conviction took place in 2008, when she had been detained near the Afghanistan city of Ghazni. During an attempt to interrogate her by US soldiers, she grabbed an American rifle and opened fire. She hit no one, and was shot and wounded as she attempted to flee.

US authorities said she was found with bomb-making instructions and a list of prominent New York city sites, which they said appeared to be a target list.

But Siddiqui had been on US authorities' radars long before her detention. The FBI issued an alert saying it was seeking Siddiqui, then living in the US, for questioning because of ties to a man alleged to be an Al Qaeda agent planning attacks in the US. She disappeared around that time, and precisely what happened in the five years before her detention in Ghazni is unclear.

She has variously said that she was kidnapped and held secretly by the US during that time, that she'd been kidnapped and held by Pakistan, and that she was a secret agent for the Pakistani intelligence services. US court filings say she told FBI agents that she'd married Ammar al-Baluchi, a nephew of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, the man who carried out most of the planning for the 9/11 attacks and who is in US custody in Guantánamo Bay.

She was originally declared to be mentally fit to go on trial, though that decision was overturned last year, with some prison psychiatrists arguing that she was faking the symptoms of mental illness.

 

[PakistanPaindabad]

I dont understand a lot of things about her case. If she was such a threat, why make such hue and cry over her? They could have killed her in any of their numerous jails around the world a long time ago. USA doesn't really respect the laws of the land outside their country. 'War against terrorism' is their license to do pretty much anything they want. We all know that. Then why drag this for so long?

And if she isn't a terrorist, then why make a scene of her like this? USA spends a lot of money and effort to improve its image in Pakistan. Then why would they do something like this for no reason, when they know Siddiqui is held in high regard in Pak. If they have such solid proofs against her, then they could have used them to inform people in Pakistan. I'm sure majority would have dropped their support of her. Now, there are again anti-USA processions in different cities.

Her whole case, from the beginning till the end, doesn't make sense to me.

Lets remember that US has still not charged her with anything related to terrorism. There is no case, or that she isnt even under arrest for terrorism. Why dont they charge her for that then if that is what she has been involved with?

 

[shan]

Lets remember that US has still not charged her with anything related to terrorism. There is no case, or that she isnt even under arrest for terrorism. Why dont they charge her for that then if that is what she has been involved with?

You cant get away with almost killing US interrogators with rifle.

 

[Xpakistani]

A sick farce by the yanks. This woman has been tortured, abused and found guilty without any hard evidence. The Pakistan nation should be ashamed too for allowing this to happen.

America is the state terrorist of the world and the sooner it's no longer a superpower the better.

"I am not sad. I am not distressed...They are not torturing me," the AP said she told the court. "This is a myth and lie and it's being spread among the Muslims."

Read more: http://dnainfo.com/20100923/downtown...#ixzz10P9skqmD

 

[Xpakistani]

Brothers, I dont know if american courts are stupid enough to defame their 200yrs of history just for one case.
Just because she was imprisoned by US we have a problem? When our local forces did much worse then this to karachiites, on whom... not even a single case was registered, let alone decided, where was jamat e islami? why did it keep shunned? Is qaum ki sirf ek beti nahi hai..
The way you guys make it sound is that you guys are against injustice done by USA only, injustice done inside pakistan is OK, please frame your feelings in a way that makes it sound that you are against INJUSTICE, not just politicized events.

 

[PakistanPaindabad]

You cant get away with almost killing US interrogators with rifle.

well yes thats why shes getting 86 years in jail - not to do with terrorism..which begs the question, why was she 'under interrogation' in Afghanistan's Bagram base for almost 6-7 years?

 

[Red Devil]

We all should be ashamed of are selves

We can't save the daughter of our nation

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

how come david hick(aussie ) gets 5 years and she gets 76 years

very very unfair

 

[madaboutlfc]

has anyone really read up on her past..

 

[lakha84]

how come david hick(aussie ) gets 5 years and she gets 76 years

very very unfair

may be something to do with their ahh RELIGION
i belive she is innocent
only ALLAH S.W.T knows
may ALLAH S.W.T make it easy for her

 

[lakha84]

We all should be ashamed of are selves

We can't save the daughter of our nation

haha
we cant save our nation you are talking about the daughter of our naion

 

[Maula Jutt]

Brothers, I dont know if american courts are stupid enough to defame their 200yrs of history just for one case. Just because she was imprisoned by US we have a problem? When our local forces did much worse then this to karachiites, on whom... not even a single case was registered, let alone decided, where was jamat e islami? why did it keep shunned? Is qaum ki sirf ek beti nahi hai..
The way you guys make it sound is that you guys are against injustice done by USA only, injustice done inside pakistan is OK, please frame your feelings in a way that makes it sound that you are against INJUSTICE, not just politicized events.

That's what I am saying. Why would they deliberately do this? I find it hard to believe. There must be something else going on. She can't be as innocent as people perceive her to be. There has to be something else there. Now that she is sentenced, I hope the facts start appearing.

 

[Markhor]

Errr if you are innocent you should not have to provide evidence

The US accused her of being a terrorist and the evidence they presented was pathetic - don't worry they will have to answer to Allah (SWT) for what they did

Well when you're in court facing 76 years of imprisonment then you're gonna have provide some evidence !

 

[Markhor]

it's a crying shame, because even in terms of technicality, she could have been proven not guilty of the charges.

Initially, the judge said that external evidence would not be allowed in the crime scene. Most of the evidence that the prosecutors relied on was circumstantial. The only evidence they had were the bullet holes on the site I believe, which was obviously nearly not enough to make a jury believe she was guilty.

However, it was Dr. Aafia's own stubbornness and reluctance to see the reality of the situation that she was embattled in that led to her downfall. The prosecutors simply asked her whether she had ever held a gun before in her life, to which she said no under an oath.

The prosecutors then presented evidence which in turn showed that Dr. Aafia had not only held a gun before in her life, but that she did a shotgun traiing program( from MIT while she was there as a student. That ABSOLUTELY ruined her credibility under oath, and then the prosecution was able to present external evidence. It wasn't helped by the fact that she later completely refused to answer questions properly and dismissed every question( and the jury) by claiming that they were part of a zionist conspiracy.

Look, by all means and methods, what happened with Dr. Aafia was a sheer case o incompetence from the US in general. However, she could have still found saving grace in the courtroom, but unfortunately by that time she had become too alienated from the realities that might have been able to save her.

Yar the question is why such an uproar on Aafia. Why don't people come out on the streets for Zarina Marri and the around 1000 Baloch people who have been kidnapped by our "patriotic" agencies.

Is Zarina Marri not the daughter of Pakistan or is it not profitable to come out for them because they are not kidnapped by Americans.

We are such a hypocrites.

I dont understand a lot of things about her case. If she was such a threat, why make such hue and cry over her? They could have killed her in any of their numerous jails around the world a long time ago. USA doesn't really respect the laws of the land outside their country. 'War against terrorism' is their license to do pretty much anything they want. We all know that. Then why drag this for so long?

And if she isn't a terrorist, then why make a scene of her like this? USA spends a lot of money and effort to improve its image in Pakistan. Then why would they do something like this for no reason, when they know Siddiqui is held in high regard in Pak. If they have such solid proofs against her, then they could have used them to inform people in Pakistan. I'm sure majority would have dropped their support of her. Now, there are again anti-USA processions in different cities.

Her whole case, from the beginning till the end, doesn't make sense to me.

Also, people dont tire of telling us Aafia is the 'daughter of Pakistan' and should be rescued. But what about those 5 women who were buried alive in Baluchistan by the feudals a while back? What about numerous cases of honor killings throughout the country that aren't even reported? Are they not daughters of Pakistan?

Total ignorance or maybe it is convenient for everyone here to believe that she is innocent.

The biggest problem in Pakistan is education and most of the time people are not giving full knowledge of the matter. Ofcourse people will assume she is innocent because everyone is presented the view that she has nothing to do with terrorism and she is falsely accused fo everything. Please read the following:

Aafia Siddiqui, a US-educated Pakistani neuroscientist whose lawyers argued is mentally unstable, was sentenced to 86 years in prison in a New York district court for trying to shoot American soldiers in an Afghanistan police station two years ago. The saga of Ms. Siddiqui, a former student at Brandeis University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), has been closely followed in her home country, where she is widely viewed as innocent.

The events leading to her conviction took place in 2008, when she had been detained near the Afghanistan city of Ghazni. During an attempt to interrogate her by US soldiers, she grabbed an American rifle and opened fire. She hit no one, and was shot and wounded as she attempted to flee.

US authorities said she was found with bomb-making instructions and a list of prominent New York city sites, which they said appeared to be a target list.

But Siddiqui had been on US authorities' radars long before her detention. The FBI issued an alert saying it was seeking Siddiqui, then living in the US, for questioning because of ties to a man alleged to be an Al Qaeda agent planning attacks in the US. She disappeared around that time, and precisely what happened in the five years before her detention in Ghazni is unclear.

She has variously said that she was kidnapped and held secretly by the US during that time, that she'd been kidnapped and held by Pakistan, and that she was a secret agent for the Pakistani intelligence services. US court filings say she told FBI agents that she'd married Ammar al-Baluchi, a nephew of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, the man who carried out most of the planning for the 9/11 attacks and who is in US custody in Guantánamo Bay.

She was originally declared to be mentally fit to go on trial, though that decision was overturned last year, with some prison psychiatrists arguing that she was faking the symptoms of mental illness.

Brothers, I dont know if american courts are stupid enough to defame their 200yrs of history just for one case.
Just because she was imprisoned by US we have a problem? When our local forces did much worse then this to karachiites, on whom... not even a single case was registered, let alone decided, where was jamat e islami? why did it keep shunned? Is qaum ki sirf ek beti nahi hai..
The way you guys make it sound is that you guys are against injustice done by USA only, injustice done inside pakistan is OK, please frame your feelings in a way that makes it sound that you are against INJUSTICE, not just politicized events.

Thank god theres still some sense on these forums.

 

[Desire]

We all should be ashamed of are selves

We can't save the daughter of our nation

take it easy buddy and no matter how much you try to portray her as national hero i wont consider her for that. Infact if she really is wife of khalid shekh the terrorist then she should clarify if she is involved in terrorist activities with him or not. Having said that, for the sake of guys like you and many others whose emotions are at stake with her, i would request govt to do something to release her.

 

[zimmz]

Laughing at some silly statements like:

1. We are about to punish you for 86 years since you were kept in jail for 7 years for no apparent reason but you tried to resist to the animals that were unleashed on you. Just for token gesture we give you a chance to provide evidences for why you should not havce been in the jail for 7 years and why we should not punish you.

2. Since you are wife of XYZ terrorist (which actually she is not), you must provide evidence that you yourself are not a terrorist.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There is enough evidence if you want to look at it. Remember it was captured by Afghan police and later on she tried to murder U.S. interrogators.

Her husband was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, an known terrorist. And what the hell she was doing in Afghanistan in that time?

I hope that was just a poor joke.

Perhaps this will help.

http://www.justiceforaafia.org/about-aafia

 

[chacha kashmiri]

US authorities said she was found with bomb-making instructions and a list of prominent New York city sites, which they said appeared to be a target list.

The only thing she was charged with was apparently managing to get hold of a gun in lock up shooting at soldiers, not hitting any of em and getting shot herself. The rest of the stuff about her apparent terrorist links are all bs and are a convenient way for pakistanis to rid themselves of any blame in what has happened to her.

Brothers, I dont know if american courts are stupid enough to defame their 200yrs of history just for one case

Don't you think the courts would be just a tiny bit biased.

Pakistan should have tried alot harder and sooner to get her repatriated.

There is enough evidence if you want to look at it

Where

 

[chacha kashmiri]

JFAC Coverage - Aafia Siddiqui Sentencing Hearing, September 23rd 2010

Aafia’s lawyer Dawn Cardi was speaking when I finally sat down. She was talking about the mental stability of Aafia Siddiqui. She spoke about how she had to get security clearance to do her job as a lawyer for Aafia; nevertheless, the security clearance was in no way a permit for her to use top security evidence to defend Aafia’s case. Cardi mentioned how psychiatrists of 20 years study and experience claim Aafia is suffering from schizophrenia, that she is incoherent and suffers from diminished capacity. “Part of it is because she was abused as a spouse” said Cardi. “Her diminished capacity is claimed to have emerged as early on as when she was studying at MIT. This can be proven in her thesis How Children Learn, another incoherent piece,” her lawyer claims. To prove her point, she goes on to say some of the things Aafia has written in random ramblings while in prison were strange and senseless like “only adults get viruses” and how “hand gliders were flying into buildings.” Cardi said “We agree Dr. Aafia is not guilty on premeditation; she didn’t even have the capacity to premeditate. No one has ever believed Aafia was a jihadist.”

Cardi tried to gain the judge’s sympathy, reminding Richard Berman that any woman in Aafia’s position would have been the same way Aafia had been when they found her in Ghazni, “Frightened, possessed, upset and ready to get out of there.”

When it was prosecutor Christopher LaVigne’s turn to talk, he stuttered his way back to the varying testimonies of the US soldiers claiming that their stories were similar; hence, they had to be true. The keyword here is similar. LaVigne and judge Berman claimed that Aafia had no problems with the Afghan army holding her. The moment American soldiers came into the picture, she became “violent and intolerant” out of her “hate for Americans.” This is contrary to the many times Aafia said, “I love America” and “Wouldn’t anyone in my place want to protect our nation and be shocked if they heard anything was going to happen?” She also mentioned how the FBI refused to speak to her, especially during the first three months of her arrest. She spoke about how she lost trust in the officers she would speak to because things they would do afterwards so she started playing along with them like her arrest was some kind of game. She didn’t know when she was speaking to serious FBI agents or when she was talking to disrespectful immature people who wore badges and uniform but had no concern for the truth.

http://www.justiceforaafia.org/arti...ddiqui-sentencing-hearing-september-23rd-2010

 

[saqlain]

The only thing she was charged with was apparently managing to get hold of a gun in lock up shooting at soldiers, not hitting any of em and getting shot herself. The rest of the stuff about her apparent terrorist links are all bs and are a convenient way for pakistanis to rid themselves of any blame in what has happened to her.

Don't you think the evidence of this would be given to the jury and to the lawyers of Dr. Afia. Do you have the evidence that everything else is BS???

Don't you think the courts would be just a tiny bit biased.
Biased about what? Obviously you do not understand the US Justice System. The jury makes the decision whether someone is guilty or not is based on the evidence which was provided. Some of the evidence is classified and is not make to the public but the jury and Afia's lawyers must have seen them.

Pakistan should have tried alot harder and sooner to get her repatriated.
Pakistan pay for the fees of the legal team and that is all Pakistan can do. Afia made the case worse for her by making remarks during her trial. She should have refrained from certain statements which only shows or reaffirmed that she has ties with talibans/ Al Qaida.

Where

Responses are in bold

 

[saqlain]

take it easy buddy and no matter how much you try to portray her as national hero i wont consider her for that. Infact if she really is wife of khalid shekh the terrorist then she should clarify if she is involved in terrorist activities with him or not. Having said that, for the sake of guys like you and many others whose emotions are at stake with her, i would request govt to do something to release her.

She is not the wife of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad(KSM). She was married to the newphew of KSM who was also involved in terrorism related activities in the US and against the US interest worldwide.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Don't you think the evidence of this would be given to the jury and to the lawyers of Dr. Afia. Do you have the evidence that everything else is BS???

If there was any evidence she would have been charged for it.

Biased about what?

She apparently shoots an american soldier and faces a trial in an american court and the same system which has been guilty of physically assaulting her. To declare her innocent and that the last 7 years had been some kind of sick joke would have been a humiliation the americans would never endure. She should have been tried in pakistan or a neutral country.

Pakistan pay for the fees of the legal team and that is all Pakistan can do.

Pakistan have only asked for her repratriation last weekend, you would have thought pakistan could have exerted a slighlty stronger pressure.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

She is not the wife of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad(KSM). She was married to the newphew of KSM who was also involved in terrorism related activities in the US and against the US interest worldwide.

Again, allegations denied by siddique and her family.

 

[Xpakistani]

We all should be ashamed of are selves

We can't save the daughter of our nation

We've spent >2.5 million dollars on the legal fees for Afia Siddiqui. Could have been spent in much better places.

And for the "daughter of pakistan" types, go on and embrace Faisal Shahzad as "son of pakistan".

 

[Xpakistani]

Why is everyone blaming the americans. the real blame lies with those that handed over pakistanis to americans. yes you got it right the idiots at GHQ who are happy with their whiskys and secret accounts in Swiss Banks.

Musharraf+Kayani... the #1 exterminatorz of crazed radicals and f1lthy salafist terrorists. Yeah. He's the man. And there's 650,000 people like him in the Pakistan Army who are busy kicking the a$$es of these fugly ba$tard alqaeda/taliban types.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

go on and embrace Faisal Shahzad as "son of pakistan".

And there's 650,000 people like him in the Pakistan Army who are busy kicking the a$$es of these fugly ba$tard alqaeda/taliban types.

Who is faisal shahzad the son of again?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

We've spent >2.5 million dollars on the legal fees for Afia Siddiqui. Could have been spent in much better places.

If the figures are true and i doubt very much it is, as a national citizen of pakistan who has been subjected to the trials and suffered the abuses she has, she deserves alot more.

 

[insaftak]

Who is faisal shahzad the son of again?

Son of a major General in Pakistani Fauj. But don't let the idiots know.

 

[UmarAkmals-fan]

We've spent >2.5 million dollars on the legal fees for Afia Siddiqui. Could have been spent in much better places.

And for the "daughter of pakistan" types, go on and embrace Faisal Shahzad as "son of pakistan".

have u checked how our retarded government spent 2.5 million on her ...check this out

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[WeAreTheVampions]

That's what I am saying. Why would they deliberately do this? I find it hard to believe. There must be something else going on. She can't be as innocent as people perceive her to be. There has to be something else there. Now that she is sentenced, I hope the facts start appearing.

Exactly. We need to stop evaluating situations like this emotionally and look at them RATIONALLY. If she is really innocent, how exactly can she prove it? I'm not saying that cynically; I honestly want to look beyond this whole "America hates Pakistan and muslims and they are racist" ******** and I want to know WHY everyone thinks she is innocent. What exactly happened when she disappeared? What activities did she go through? And when she fired at the US agents, was she mentally ill or something? There definitely has to be something. The US does not just sentence someone to 86 bloody years for absolutely no reason. If she truly is innocent, then this is one of the biggest injustice ever. Unfortunately, I doubt she's 100% innocent.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Exactly. We need to stop evaluating situations like this emotionally and look at them RATIONALLY. If she is really innocent, how exactly can she prove it? I'm not saying that cynically; I honestly want to look beyond this whole "America hates Pakistan and muslims and they are racist" ******** and I want to know WHY everyone thinks she is innocent. What exactly happened when she disappeared? What activities did she go through? And when she fired at the US agents, was she mentally ill or something? There definitely has to be something. The US does not just sentence someone to 86 bloody years for absolutely no reason. If she truly is innocent, then this is one of the biggest injustice ever. Unfortunately, I doubt she's 100% innocent.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/1811/injustice-for-dr-aafia-once-again/

 

[Desire]

I have a gut feeling that she will be release within 6 months.

 

[Hail-Akram]

An article about why she is being upheld as the daughter of Pakistan

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/1840/unwarranted-hysteria-for-the-daughter-of-pakistan/

 

[Xpakistani]

Dr Aafia — when will we stop playing to the gallery?

Intelligent, honest and balanced people like Ms. Memon are a great hope for Pakistan. She is an uber nationalist, if there ever was one, but her thoughtfulness shows through in most of what she says.




Dr Aafia — when will we stop playing to the gallery?


The writer is a PML-Q MNA marvi.memon@tribune.com.pk

It is so easy to follow the popular mood of the country. But it is so morally wrong to do so, if one knows it is based on a lie. That was my dilemma last week. Having heard plenty of evidence corroborating Dr Aafia Siddiqui’s alleged links to CIA and al Qaeda, from all those who had held important and relevant posts then and now, it became incumbent on me not to follow the herd. It became necessary for me to call a spade a spade and for that reason I was not part of the National Assembly walkout in her favour. Having said that, I have always maintained that she should be brought back to Pakistan and be tried here because she is a Pakistani, even though there are doubts that she may now have American nationality. Her trial in the US was far from fair with many human rights violations against her, but till allegations against her dangerous links are proven wrong she could not be called ‘qaum ki beti’. I also added that real leadership did not ‘cash in’ on wrong popular moods.

In the process I was targeted by certain vultures inside and outside my political party. I was the victim of a character assassination campaign and it reminded me of McCarthyism. This was the kind of bullying that scares most people. But I held my ground. I noticed that even though many people had not taken part in the walkout no one wanted to challenge the popular mood since they feared a public outcry. Each one of those vultures wanted to ‘use’ Dr Aafia to earn votes. The kind of labels that were tagged on me for those couple of days were unbelievable. Why? Simply because I challenged a cashing in strategy based on lies.

What is Pakistan losing as a result of this McCarthyism? It is losing the liberalist agenda to the jihadists. It is losing focus of what the real issues are — it is now clear that every single political party inside and outside parliament would rather take the popular course of action rather than the correct one. And that to me is the most distasteful truth of the current Pakistani political set-up. It means that we don’t have leaders. We have users.

Pakistan spent a key week holding rallies in support of Dr Aafia. During that time I didn’t see any huge rallies for real causes such as in support of the incredible new Kashmiri intifada standing up to human rights violations in Indian Kashmir. In the process we lost out on focusing on the miseries of flood victims.

The point is, do we set the agenda on haq or do we follow the wrong agenda? Pakistanis today have a choice. They can truly kick out the cowards and users and rally behind those fighting for haq. If not, then the future options for fixing the problems in Pakistan will be bleak. And yes, it takes courage to do correct agenda setting. But it is Pakistan’s only salvation. I am not in for a popularity contest. I am after ‘haq’, in which it is important to accept that certain choices made in the past may have been wrong. It is better to fix the wrong course of direction rather than to follow it for political expediency. That is the difference between ‘new politics’ and old politics.
Published in The Express Tribune October 6th, 2010.

 

[Xpakistani]

agree with Marvi Memon.

 

[Wazeeri]

Marvi Memon is the biggest dramai baaz in politics right now.

It seems the National Assembly has decided to openly mock the reserved seats for women by appointing screechy voiced aunties who lack the basic skills to debate properly.

Did Ms Memon have the guts to argue her case in assembly or provide this "evidence" she speaks off?

 

[farazaidi]

It seems the National Assembly has decided to openly mock the reserved seats for women by appointing screechy voiced aunties who lack the basic skills to debate properly.

Quite depressing really. Yesterday, saw some effigy burning female MPAs of Punjab and they were also beating the posters with chappals in a very discrete manner. And they were MPAs, what can we expect from their followers?

 

[Maula Jutt]

I do find it downright disgusting that people cry hoarse for this 'quom ki beti' while a large number of 'quom ki betis' get buried alive by feudals in Balochistan, killed mercilessly in the name of honor, are given as compensation to be raped by gangs to settle family feuds by the 'elders' of the villages, get harrassed day and night if they dare step out of their houses to earn a living to support their families, are treated as second class citizens in every sphere of life, and are told to shut up and bear it all in the name of honor and sometimes, incredulous as it sounds, in the name of religion.

Yet this 'quom ki beti' who was working and living in America and has a shady history as to her links with terrorist outfits hogs all the limelight. Yeah yeah, I know how many of her ghairatmand brothers are going to attack me on this forum now but really, I couldn't care less, so don't bother wasting your effort and time.

 

[1137moiz]

I do find it downright disgusting that people cry hoarse for this 'quom ki beti' while a large number of 'quom ki betis' get buried alive by feudals in Balochistan, killed mercilessly in the name of honor, are given as compensation to be raped by gangs to settle family feuds by the 'elders' of the villages, get harrassed day and night if they dare step out of their houses to earn a living to support their families, are treated as second class citizens in every sphere of life, and are told to shut up and bear it all in the name of honor and sometimes, incredulous as it sounds, in the name of religion.

Yet this 'quom ki beti' who was working and living in America and has a shady history as to her links with terrorist outfits hogs all the limelight. Yeah yeah, I know how many of her ghairatmand brothers are going to attack me on this forum now but really, I couldn't care less, so don't bother wasting your effort and time.

That's true--it's being blown way out of proportion.

I do think though that as many injustices as possible should be prevented. Dr Aafia's attitude throughout this case as well as several holes in the prosecution case convince me at least that she is being made a scapegoat. However it shouldn't be turned into a national issue

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Pakistan spent a key week holding rallies in support of Dr Aafia. During that time I didn’t see any huge rallies for real causes such as in support of the incredible new Kashmiri intifada standing up to human rights violations in Indian Kashmir. In the process we lost out on focusing on the miseries of flood victims.

Why are you busy writing this statement, there are people dying in kashmir and in the floods.

Yet this 'quom ki beti' who was working and living in America and has a shady history as to her links with terrorist outfits hogs all the limelight

It's not Dr Aafia's fault or her family's that there is widespread corruption in pakistan, one of the reasons musharraf and co sold her out was that she was very criitical of the pakistani policies.

 

[Maula Jutt]

That's true--it's being blown way out of proportion.

I do think though that as many injustices as possible should be prevented. Dr Aafia's attitude throughout this case as well as several holes in the prosecution case convince me at least that she is being made a scapegoat. However it shouldn't be turned into a national issue

Yes. Her case should be handed in a way any individual's case is handled. If she is being wronged, then please fight for it. Justice should prevail. By that same token, however, if she is found guilty, even of something smaller than what she is allegedly guilty for, then punish her accordingly. But I dont think that if she is, by some miracle, brought back to Pakistan, and tried in some court of Pakistan, you can really deliver justice. Simply because there are more chances of you seeing some murders of judges and lawyers on the streets if they so much as dared sentence her to any punishment, no matter how guilty she is proven. This is the crooked concept of 'justice' we have in our beloved country.

Her case is being blown out of proportion. Being used for scoring political points. I saw the live transmission of her mother and sister right after her sentence was announced. And let me tell you this - I wont be surprised if her sister forms a political party and starts dreaming of 'iqtedaar' soon!

I simply can't understand how the name "Dr. Aafia Siddiqui" pulls such strong emotional response out of our people whereas injustices and downright murders of girls and women in our own country in front of their very own eyes doesn't even result in a single raised eyebrow!

We are a part of such a hypocrite society. All this emotional drama has nothing to do with 'quom ki beti', or human rights or justice! Our people and their leaders don't understand these concepts to begin with. What this really has to do with is hatred for America, simple as that. Our people and politicians should just drop their pretenses and call it as it is.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Her case is being blown out of proportion. Being used for scoring political points. I saw the live transmission of her mother and sister right after her sentence was announced.

Compared to live transmissions of cricket matches and cricket related incidences or live transmission of benazhir bhutto and her family after her death, i think it is very much in proportion and should have been 'blown up' in the media alot sooner.

I simply can't understand how the name "Dr. Aafia Siddiqui" pulls such strong emotional response out of our people whereas injustices and downright murders of girls and women in our own country in front of their very own eyes doesn't even result in a single raised eyebrow!

It's like those 2 boys who were killed in sialkot, there were a lot of 'emotional' response and that goes in pakistan daily too.

When such injustices are played out in court and it involves the kidnapping of children and the physical abuse of pakistani women by american soldiers i cannot fathom how one can fail to be touched and angry at the grand injustice of it all.

 

[1137moiz]

Yes. Her case should be handed in a way any individual's case is handled. If she is being wronged, then please fight for it. Justice should prevail. By that same token, however, if she is found guilty, even of something smaller than what she is allegedly guilty for, then punish her accordingly. But I dont think that if she is, by some miracle, brought back to Pakistan, and tried in some court of Pakistan, you can really deliver justice. Simply because there are more chances of you seeing some murders of judges and lawyers on the streets if they so much as dared sentence her to any punishment, no matter how guilty she is proven. This is the crooked concept of 'justice' we have in our beloved country.

Her case is being blown out of proportion. Being used for scoring political points. I saw the live transmission of her mother and sister right after her sentence was announced. And let me tell you this - I wont be surprised if her sister forms a political party and starts dreaming of 'iqtedaar' soon!

I simply can't understand how the name "Dr. Aafia Siddiqui" pulls such strong emotional response out of our people whereas injustices and downright murders of girls and women in our own country in front of their very own eyes doesn't even result in a single raised eyebrow!

We are a part of such a hypocrite society. All this emotional drama has nothing to do with 'quom ki beti', or human rights or justice! Our people and their leaders don't understand these concepts to begin with. What this really has to do with is hatred for America, simple as that. Our people and politicians should just drop their pretenses and call it as it is.

A lot of politicians are just kowtowing to public opinion. I personally feel sorry for the lady who's handled this with more dignity than most people would. As for our politicians--they should shut up and settle on their own affairs. The case, however distressing, is out of our court now. If she is innocent (and I personally feel she is) she'll get her compensation in the Hereafter InshaAllah

 

[jibrael]

Aafia Sidiqui is a Cheat, she went herself underground

MQM Pakistani Website has a revealing Article about Aafia that she is a cheat. Very interesting proofs have been given.

Click here to read complete the complete article.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Compared to live transmissions of cricket matches and cricket related incidences or live transmission of benazhir bhutto and her family after her death, i think it is very much in proportion and should have been 'blown up' in the media alot sooner.

Anything that gets a political colour in our country turns into a farce and this case is no different. The media is doing more than its share of highlighting this case by giving it a political color. Her case is not black and white and it shouldn't be treated as such. I do not really care about this Marvi Memon begum as she is a politician who is no different than the rest, but she is right about the 'playing to the gallery' part. Our media does that a lot, not just in Afia's case.

It's like those 2 boys who were killed in sialkot, there were a lot of 'emotional' response and that goes in pakistan daily too.

When such injustices are played out in court and it involves the kidnapping of children and the physical abuse of pakistani women by american soldiers i cannot fathom how one can fail to be touched and angry at the grand injustice of it all.

Justice has absolutely nothing to do with her as far as Pakistanis are concerned, simply because we as a society do not even know what justice is. We all think we are right in what we are doing or saying, and will defend it no matter how incredulous it is. Killing of sialkot boys, killing everyday people, animalistic behavior towards fellow human beings and having no remorse for any wrongdoing whatesoever have become traits of our society now. Or perhaps they always were and we are just beginning to know about it since the media got to where it is.

I will not, for a single second, believe that anyone crying for Afia is actually sad about the inhuman treatment she has allegedly received only. A large portion of this reaction is the anger towards America for the war on terror and its external policy for Pakistan and the rest of the world, and that too only muslim world. When people raise their voice against Afia's treatment, they are actually doing it to show their anger towards America for Pakistan, Palestine, Bosnia and whatever excesses America or the west might have done towards the muslim world. Justice for her to us means declaring her innocent no matter what she has done. If she had links with Al Qaeda, well good because Al Qaeda is fighting America and she was doing jihad <-- this is the excuse people have in their minds when this thought comes to them. Her actual guilt or innocence is of no consequence to us.

We want a muslim victory over America. Being 'Pakistan ki beti' has absolutely nothing to do with it. If she were never arrested or kidnapped, and had actually went for a half hour walk as just a regular Pakistani woman named Afia, in any regular neighborhood in Pakistan alone at night, this 'Pakistan ki beti' would have been raped three times over in that duration by the 'Pakistan ke betay'.

So let's call it as it is. We want her free no matter what because we are angry and frustrated about things that have nothing to do with her, but getting her free would give us a sense of victory that we can't achieve in other areas of life because we are too lazy, corrupt and incompetent.

 

[161]

MQM Pakistani Website has a revealing Article about Aafia that she is a cheat. Very interesting proofs have been given.

Click here to read complete the complete article.

Dr. Afia isn't the cheat .. she has never denied her involvement in Al-Qaida

The cheats are Pak politicians, Pak media and some of the senior posters here who glorify her as a heroine when she was clearly involved with groups that have butchered thousands of innocent Pakistanis.

 

[insaftak]

MQM Pakistani Website has a revealing Article about Aafia that she is a cheat. Very interesting proofs have been given.

Click here to read complete the complete article.

That's why MQM held a recent rally in support of DR. Aafia right.

Typical MQMers want to stay on both sides. it is a win win situation for them.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

So let's call it as it is. We want her free no matter what because we are angry and frustrated about things that have nothing to do with her, but getting her free would give us a sense of victory that we can't achieve in other areas of life because we are too lazy, corrupt and incompetent.

So your argument is that people are jumping on the bandwagon and using the sentiment to either further their political careers or secondly because they hate america.
Let's stop giving money to the flood victims too and to people dying of hunger in africa because obviously people and politicans are just jumping on the bandwagon to alleviate their own selfishness and to gain marks in the press.

So let's call it as it is. We want her free no matter what because we are angry and frustrated about things that have nothing to do with her, but getting her free would give us a sense of victory that we can't achieve in other areas of life because we are too lazy, corrupt and incompetent.

Or maybe people are just humane and want an innocent mother with no proof or evidence against her to be released by the crusaders.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Dr. Afia isn't the cheat .. she has never denied her involvement in Al-Qaida

and the evidence you have of this is where exactly

The cheats are Pak politicians, Pak media and some of the senior posters here who glorify her as a heroine when she was clearly involved with groups that have butchered thousands of innocent Pakistanis.

Again please back your statements with proof. I can think of a few people who are praised on this forum who are much guilty of the crimes you falsely accuse Dr Aafia of.

 

[ShaazE]

MQM Pakistani Website has a revealing Article about Aafia that she is a cheat. Very interesting proofs have been given.

Click here to read complete the complete article.

Aw snap. MQM said it and Altaf Bhai signed it?

This is the truth!

 

[1137moiz]

Dr. Afia isn't the cheat .. she has never denied her involvement in Al-Qaida

The cheats are Pak politicians, Pak media and some of the senior posters here who glorify her as a heroine when she was clearly involved with groups that have butchered thousands of innocent Pakistanis.

um yes she has, several times. she may not be a heroine, but she's almost certainly a scapegoat and seems to have been caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's nothing to make a political statement about but she's been hard done by

 

[shaykh1985]

Anything that gets a political colour in our country turns into a farce and this case is no different. The media is doing more than its share of highlighting this case by giving it a political color. Her case is not black and white and it shouldn't be treated as such. I do not really care about this Marvi Memon begum as she is a politician who is no different than the rest, but she is right about the 'playing to the gallery' part. Our media does that a lot, not just in Afia's case.




Justice has absolutely nothing to do with her as far as Pakistanis are concerned, simply because we as a society do not even know what justice is. We all think we are right in what we are doing or saying, and will defend it no matter how incredulous it is. Killing of sialkot boys, killing everyday people, animalistic behavior towards fellow human beings and having no remorse for any wrongdoing whatesoever have become traits of our society now. Or perhaps they always were and we are just beginning to know about it since the media got to where it is.

I will not, for a single second, believe that anyone crying for Afia is actually sad about the inhuman treatment she has allegedly received only. A large portion of this reaction is the anger towards America for the war on terror and its external policy for Pakistan and the rest of the world, and that too only muslim world. When people raise their voice against Afia's treatment, they are actually doing it to show their anger towards America for Pakistan, Palestine, Bosnia and whatever excesses America or the west might have done towards the muslim world. Justice for her to us means declaring her innocent no matter what she has done. If she had links with Al Qaeda, well good because Al Qaeda is fighting America and she was doing jihad <-- this is the excuse people have in their minds when this thought comes to them. Her actual guilt or innocence is of no consequence to us.

We want a muslim victory over America. Being 'Pakistan ki beti' has absolutely nothing to do with it. If she were never arrested or kidnapped, and had actually went for a half hour walk as just a regular Pakistani woman named Afia, in any regular neighborhood in Pakistan alone at night, this 'Pakistan ki beti' would have been raped three times over in that duration by the 'Pakistan ke betay'.

So let's call it as it is. We want her free no matter what because we are angry and frustrated about things that have nothing to do with her, but getting her free would give us a sense of victory that we can't achieve in other areas of life because we are too lazy, corrupt and incompetent.

Agree with that sentiment...its all about WHO is giving her sentencing than anything she has done...for instance when Saddam was hanged there was outrage...the guy was hardly a saint but it was about WHO had inflicted the punishment...

Its ok when you abuse your own but its completely unacceptable when your enemy does it...

Personally it pisses me off when Muslims go on about Israel and the US...essentially Muslims are the laughing stock that they are because of the leaderships they have in place...if anyone really cares about their own then they should look at their own leaderships and throw the abuse in that direction...

 

[Wazeeri]

I do find it downright disgusting that people cry hoarse for this 'quom ki beti' while a large number of 'quom ki betis' get buried alive by feudals in Balochistan,

Forums all over the world are full of ridiculous statements like the above.

Just because something isn't the most important issue in the world, it doesn't mean it's not important.

To the other geniuses who are claiming that this is blown out of proportion, please understand that she was not the only one who was abducted. Her children also disappeared and one of them still hasn't been found.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Forums all over the world are full of ridiculous statements like the above.

Just because something isn't the most important issue in the world, it doesn't mean it's not important.

To the other geniuses who are claiming that this is blown out of proportion, please understand that she was not the only one who was abducted. Her children also disappeared and one of them still hasn't been found.

This issue is important to us. But not for the reasons we tell the world. It has very little to do with human rights or how offended we are that a woman from our country has been treated this way. This issue is important to us because we want her free to score a point over USA and feel we have gotten some compensation in return of all the abuses our people have endured at USA's hands over the years. Her innocence or guilt has nothing to do with it and we couldn't care less. To us, she is innocent because she is one of us and whatever proofs anyone might have implicating her is of no interest to us. To many of us, in fact, those proofs would be a conspiracy. Simple.

If we want her to get justice, we should be asking the US courts to punish those who have inflicted her with torture over the years she was imprisoned which is against human rights. We need to be appealing in court over her sentence which seems unfair. We should NOT be asking them to set her free because we seem to miraculously KNOW she is innocent because she is our 'Pakistan ki beti'.

It is this hypocrisy that has gotten us where we are today. Blaming everything on others and finding no fault in our own.

The sensible posters on forums around the world should have this much insight and strength to admit the truth.

 

[Wazeeri]

. We need to be appealing in court over her sentence which seems unfair.

An appeal to declare mistrial has been rejected.

If we want her to get justice, we should be asking the US courts to punish those who have inflicted her with torture over the years she was imprisoned which is against human rights.

Judge Berman already gave his unofficial verdict on that by saying that there is no evidence that she was detained before 2008.

Maula Jutt

I'm sorry but your perception of truth is distorted by lack of actual interest in the topic at hand displayed by your unfamiliarity with the details. There also seems to be a desire to appear as the reasonable intelligent voice among the hoards of unintelligent Pakistanis, I don't think it is wise to label oneself as a "sensible poster".

Her release is being demanded because of question marks over the evidence (or lack of) provided to support the charges put on her. The case seems to have been cooked up to give her a life imprisonment because what they actually want her for, they can't prove.

If the issue is only important to you because you think this will get us some points over USA then that reflects badly on you. The rest of us are moved by her family's desperate efforts to have her released, we are moved by the images of a half starved woman, we are moved by the story of her children, we are moved by the pictures of her children crying uncontrollably for their mother.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Maula Jutt

I'm sorry but your perception of truth is distorted by lack of actual interest in the topic at hand displayed by your unfamiliarity with the details. There also seems to be a desire to appear as the reasonable intelligent voice among the hoards of unintelligent Pakistanis, I don't think it is wise to label oneself as a "sensible poster".

Her release is being demanded because of question marks over the evidence (or lack of) provided to support the charges put on her. The case seems to have been cooked up to give her a life imprisonment because what they actually want her for, they can't prove.

If the issue is only important to you because you think this will get us some points over USA then that reflects badly on you. The rest of us are moved by her family's desperate efforts to have her released, we are moved by the images of a half starved woman, we are moved by the story of her children, we are moved by the pictures of her children crying uncontrollably for their mother.

The "sensible poster" was a compliment for you.

I am fully aware of the details of her case and had started my journey, as far as following her case is concerned, with supporting her with the same reasons you have mentioned.

I could not, however, ignore stories I came across that went against the grain of my faith in her innocence for long, and had to pursue them to give the case a fair trial in my eyes at least. I do not participate or speak about topics I don't have knowledge of. I find it is easier to ignore it rather than take part in it, give an uninformed opinion, and then be made a fool of. So rest assured, you will not see me in any thread about a topic I don't feel confident about.

You give a good review of all the 'moving' stuff. This is the same stuff that has moved a lot of her supporters. There is a problem with it though. Once you start 'moving', you start thinking, if you can call it that, with your emotions. And your brain, taking advantage of the break, takes a quick nap.

Afia Siddiqui's case has been in the media for the past few years now and all I see from her ardent supporters is an emotional appeal. You did the same just now yourself when in one paragraph you asked for justice for her unfair sentencing and in the next, you kindly reminded me the things that have moved you about her case. Nowhere do I see your conviction that she is innocent. What you see is her family and her children crying for her. What else do you expect to see from her family and her children? They'll support her no matter what. That's what families are all about. If I go outside right now, kill a person in front of one witness and that witness comes to my mother and tells her about it, while I deny it - guess who my mother is going to believe? Gues who she is still going to believe if it is 10 witnesses, on whose statement I am now on death row, and am still claiming to my mother from across the grill that I am innocent?

If Siddiqui's supporters want her freed for emotional reasons, I have no problem with that. But calling it an appeal for justice and declaring her an innocent is what bugs me. Because that claim comes from a place which has nothing to do with her actual case or guilt/innocence. And so I see us lying to ourselves.

But we are a hypocritic society and hypocrisy does apparently seem to lead to a much easier life. So enjoy it. Don't be expecting drastic changes to our condition though, eh?

Cheers.

 

[Maula Jutt]

An appeal to declare mistrial has been rejected.

Judge Berman already gave his unofficial verdict on that by saying that there is no evidence that she was detained before 2008.

So we start claiming she is innocent?

There is mistrial taking place. I feel it too. However, I have kept a margin for any further details that might come to light later which can explain why certain steps were taken that seem to be against her basic rights. I have no problem speaking against it. But why is the 'Pakistan ki beti' declared innocent by our people? Why are their such strong convictions that she, a returnee professor of MIT from USA who has a sister teaching in the States too, not some airi ghairi poor woman whose relatives won't be even able to voice their anger anywhere other than holding a picture of her outside the Supreme Court, is innocent, was just minding her own business, and was kidnapped by the ISI or CIA, taken to some cell in Afghanistan where she was raped and tortured day and night, and now sentenced to nearly a century in US prison?

Why are we justifying the violations of her human rights, by making bold claims that she has done nothing wrong in the first place? Why are we closing her eyes tight shut from the possibility that she may be guilty of her involvement with terrorist organizations but has been treated terribly on human rights basis since after her arrest? Why is this so difficult for us to accept?

 

[Wazeeri]

you kindly reminded me the things that have moved you about her case. Nowhere do I see your conviction that she is innocent. What you see is her family and her children crying for her.

There was more than one paragraph in my post. She seems to be innocent of what she was tried for which was an attempted murder of the US soldiers. The particular paragraph of my post which you have highlighted was answering your allegation that the catalyst for her support is a desire to get one up on the USA. My argument is that the feelings were sparked by something other than that.

But we are a hypocritic society and hypocrisy does apparently seem to lead to a much easier life.

Why do you expect any society numbering over 160 million brains to be completely consistant? How many societies do you know which don't satisfy the hypocricy test?

There is mistrial taking place. I feel it too. However, I have kept a margin for any further details that might come to light later which can explain why certain steps were taken that seem to be against her basic rights. I have no problem speaking against it. But why is the 'Pakistan ki beti' declared innocent by our people?

You are putting words in the mouths of your millions of opponents who may not all be arguing the same thing and then arguing against these words.

Who said that she definitely is innocent? All we know is that she was arrested for some reason no one knows, she isn't being tried for that reason, what happened when she was arrested is not being shared with us and the crime she is being tried for she doesn't seem to have committed. The protest is against a clear misjustice.

Why are we closing her eyes tight shut from the possibility that she may be guilty of her involvement with terrorist organizations but has been treated terribly on human rights basis since after her arrest? Why is this so difficult for us to accept?

Is that by itself not worthy of a protest? If her allegations of rape are indeed true then are you suggesting that women who are involved with Al-qaeda may be raped?

How sensible is it to accept a possibility of her guilt without anyone actually telling us what she is supposed to be guilty off or providing any proof of it?

What was she doing for Al-qaeda? If she was killing people then we should be given proof, if she was just washing their dishes is the 86 year sentence justified?

The reason why the Americans bomb us, the reason why the Taliban bomb us, the reason why our police kill us is precisely because we don't put any price on a Pakistani life. Imagine Pakistan trying a US or British citizen for murder, what do you think will happen? The whole of their government would be behind them regardless of whether they committed a crime or not.

No wonder then we see so many Pakistanis running around the world trying to get a US or EU passport.

Until we are provided evidence of what she has done to deserve 80+ years in jail, she is Pakistan's innocent beti

 

[Maula Jutt]

There was more than one paragraph in my post. She seems to be innocent of what she was tried for which was an attempted murder of the US soldiers. The particular paragraph of my post which you have highlighted was answering your allegation that the catalyst for her support is a desire to get one up on the USA. My argument is that the feelings were sparked by something other than that.

My criticism is not for those supporting her for the mistrial. I am talking about the feeling people have about her in general in Pakistan, with the media going with the general public mood where she is portrayed as a victim who was kidnapped from Pakistan while she was going on about her usual business and being blamed wrongly for Al Qaeda links. The common words used for her is that she was 'trapped' into this by the Americans, their 'stooge' Musharraf, and the Zionists of Israel.

You are talking about a sentence that was passed barely a month ago. But her story, and the Pakistani public's reaction to it, is not a month old. It's been a few years and people have been making these tall claims of her innocence regarding her Al Qaeda links since the news first appeared while she was still allegedly missing. The anger for America and the alleged American stooge Musharraf was translated into a conviction in our public that she is an innocent and has been trapped. As her story unfolded, and more and more stories came out that started making some people, including me, doubt the stories of her innocence, the mood of the general public persisted unchanged, calling the stories false and a conspiracy of the Americans, their stooge Musharraf, and the Zionist media around the world. The various political parties with agendas in their own favor and against Musharraf's dictatorship milked this issue and the public supported them. This is the same attitude of putting unreasonable emotions ahead of critical thinking that has resulted in the election into power of the current government and Zardari as the country's head.

It is this unreasonable emotionalism that made our people accept without question the story given by her family that she one day took her three very young kids and decided to go to Islamabad ALONE from Karachi, and that too at a time when she and her family was allegedly scared for her safety. Some even claim she was going by road! They don't question why if they killed her youngest son, did they leave her elder two when it is America we are talking about, a country that doesn't think twice before bombing a madrassah full of children. But they spared her eldest son who was later to be found with her in 2008, and her daughter who, according to Aafia's mom and sis, just turned up one day recently outside their house. Both safe, sound and healthy? So ISI/CIA killed her youngest son and spared two children so they can later create all sorts of problems for them.

Her innocence supporters also ignore everything said by her first husband that contradicts her story told by her family - his claims of seeing her in Karachi during this time, and people claiming seeing her children at her mother's house during these years of her disappearance. No, no, he is lying, they say. They also ignore the fact that even though her husband's name was given at the same time as hers by Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, he was traced down and questioned in Karachi and then let go and removed from the FBI list, where he continued leading a normal life. But USA, for some strange reason, had a special grudge against her where they kidnapped her and tortured and raped her for years in an Afghanistani prison and now flew her all the way to USA for trial. They dont question why, after 9/11 happened, she came back with her family to Pakistan, citing fears for her life and family, when thousands of Muslims stayed back in USA, including myself and I was even a member of MSA at Michigan State University and regularly visited one of the largest Islamic Centers in USA. Everyone was worried of a backlash but hardly anyone left the country, even those on student visas. But she did, in an emergency, along with her family when she as well as her husband were working full time and she really didn't have anything to worry about if she was innocent.

They also believe that she really had gone back to USA to look for a job after her divorce and returned back in a week, which apparently happened at the same time a post box was opened in the name of Majid Khan who later turned out to be an Al Qaeda member and was arrested. And even more suspiciously, she decided to go look for jobs in universities on 25th of December and came back a week later, a duration where all campuses in USA are closed for winter holidays. Everyone who has spent some time in USA knows that, and would expect a former student and then a professor to know this from first hand experience.

But then again, maybe I am giving too much credibility to her supporters. They usually don't even listen to anything contradicting her stories of innocence. So how can I blame them for disregarding it?

And yes, there have been some suspicious claims against her which, if one uses common sense, are easy to separate from those that sound more convincing. For example, the claim that she was involved in a diamond deal in Liberia doesn't add up because her lawyer has proven she was present in USA at that time, a claim backed up by credit card receipts and eye witnesses.

But her supporters in Pakistan who claim she is innocent do so by disregarding EVERYTHING that contradicts their stand and claim it is a zionist/american conspiracy.

However, my initial intentions in this thread were not intended to discuss my convictions about her case but was instead directed at the people who show their hypocrisy by claiming she is innocent and was trapped by USA/Zionists, an innocent sold by Musharraf for money. And that everything implicating her is a conspiracy.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Why do you expect any society numbering over 160 million brains to be completely consistant? How many societies do you know which don't satisfy the hypocricy test?

I do so because I live in Pakistan and I see this hypocrisy everywhere. I see people who feel she is guilty stay quiet while the rest of the population makes hue and cry about her innocence. My blood boils when I read accounts of prisoners inside Pakistan who are treated as animals and no one raises a voice. Many die every month in custody and not a word by anyone. Women are used as objects and killed in the name of honor and buried alive and we hear nothing. Women in prisons are raped and sold off every single night and our people's hearts dont ache the way they apparently do for Aafia. Is she the only Pakistani tortured in foreign prisons? What about hundreds and thousands who are dying in prisons in India, Middle East and the rest of the world for either no crime or are still in prison long after their sentence was over, just because Pakistan govt doesn't deem it important to get them released?

While we ignore all those I have mentioned above and come to the streets for Siddiqui who was captured and sentenced by USA, then please do tell me meray bhai, what could be the reason of this discrimination between two sets of people going through the same trauma but getting different responses from our people, politicians, and media?

I will give you some hints - America. Zionists. War on Terror. Selective protest. Hypocrisy!

As to the answer to your last question, I will start voicing my opinion about those other hypocritical societies the day I become a part of them. Wish me luck.

You are putting words in the mouths of your millions of opponents who may not all be arguing the same thing and then arguing against these words.

Who said that she definitely is innocent? All we know is that she was arrested for some reason no one knows, she isn't being tried for that reason, what happened when she was arrested is not being shared with us and the crime she is being tried for she doesn't seem to have committed. The protest is against a clear misjustice.

Then why do you keep responding to my comments when you dont even fall in the category of people who I am criticizing? Did I single anyone out claiming they are wrong in supporting her mistrial? I myself just claimed a few posts back that I feel, at this point with the facts available to me, that she has been mishandled by the authorities as far as her trial is concerned. My criticism is for our general society who wants her released and treated as a hero. Not only any hero, a Pakistani hero as well as an Islamic hero. Well she is NOT a hero. Not until she is tried in court for her alleged involvement with terrorist orgs and declared innocent.

You only have to go on the street here in Pakistan and ask people what they think about her case. Mostly you'll hear, 'Innocent, Poor Woman, Conspiracy, USA, Musharraf'. Question them on the facts and they mostly either don't know or will start recounting the injustices meted out to her, totally ignoring the original question. Persist and they'll call you an American puppet and hurl abuses at you, you 'fake muslim'!

If you are not claiming she is innocent, then sorry to inform you but you dont form the chunk of our society. You know when I will start believing that you are? The day I start seeing people supporting her innocence being matched by an equally loud group citing some actual facts and not emotional jingoism, and raising their voice against similar injustice to 'Pakistan ke bachay' rotting in captivity around the world. The day that happens, I will come back to this thread and admit, "I was wrong, and you are right". Right now, I don't see it. I don't see it on the streets, in the media, or in politics. All I see is HYPOCRISY. And until that doesn't change, I have every right to criticize this society.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Is that by itself not worthy of a protest? If her allegations of rape are indeed true then are you suggesting that women who are involved with Al-qaeda may be raped?

How sensible is it to accept a possibility of her guilt without anyone actually telling us what she is supposed to be guilty off or providing any proof of it?

What was she doing for Al-qaeda? If she was killing people then we should be given proof, if she was just washing their dishes is the 86 year sentence justified?

I don't disagree with you on this. I never did.

Find me a group that wants her free of her current unjust captivity but then wants her to stand trial later in a neutral court for her Al Qaeda links, and accept its verdict, and you will find me a part of it the very next minute.

The reason why the Americans bomb us, the reason why the Taliban bomb us, the reason why our police kill us is precisely because we don't put any price on a Pakistani life. Imagine Pakistan trying a US or British citizen for murder, what do you think will happen? The whole of their government would be behind them regardless of whether they committed a crime or not.

No wonder then we see so many Pakistanis running around the world trying to get a US or EU passport.

No, no, NO. If you go after releasing her only and ignore the rest, first of all, good luck getting her released. We don't have the grounds to get her released. Because we dont get Pakistanis rotting in jails around the world released. If we become selective, and start our campaign with someone whose story of innocence isn't even as clear cut as some claim, we wont get anywhere. If we want others to take us seriously, we need to provide justice to ALL Pakistanis equally. Regardless of which country it is. We can't make hue and cry over USA because they are bombing us or because we are pissed at them for their treatment to Muslims around the world, while we ignore those rotting in Saudi jails, for eg, because we get various benefits from them. Does the EU or US discriminate when asking for release of their citizens? Do they only go after certain countries, or only high profile cases? No, they come after you no matter which country you are an no matter who their citizen is. That's how you gain respect for the lives of your citizens.

Until we are provided evidence of what she has done to deserve 80+ years in jail, she is Pakistan's innocent beti

'Innocent' again?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Whyy are their such strong convictions that she, a returnee professor of MIT from USA who has a sister teaching in the States too, not some airi ghairi poor woman whose relatives won't be even able to voice their anger anywhere other than holding a picture of her outside the Supreme Court, is innocent, was just minding her own business, and was kidnapped by the ISI or CIA, taken to some cell in Afghanistan where she was raped and tortured day and night, and now sentenced to nearly a century in US prison?

Because there are no other cases of innocent people being dragged into guantanamo and other torture camps after 9/11 and then released years later are there.

There is no evidence of torture and humiliation at abu ghuraib or guantanamo bay.

There are no cases of america arresting random muslims in us after 9/11 or on their arrival in afghanistan arresting every one on site including people building schools who have since written books about their ordeal.

by an equally loud group citing some actual facts and not emotional jingoism,

That's what generally happens at marches, people tend to say short and catchy stuff and not read out of newspaper articles.

There are lots of articles and plenty of sites which detail the case, the lack of evidence against her and how she has been treated, if you want to ignore it that's your problem


Here's one of the sites- http://www.justiceforaafia.org/


Here's a recent article- http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=603

 

[Wazeeri]

Maula

I'm not going to reply to every single point i your post because you are repeating the same point over and over again. You keep on picking out absurd arguments or making up arguments allegedly made by some supporters of Dr Aafia and applying it to everyone.

"She is national hero"??? How many people have said that????

Just like these "irrational" supporters you argue against, the ones who fail to question the inconsistencies of Aafia's story you also display the same tendencies by giving the guilty verdict without even seeing the evidence. You admit she has just had a mistrial but based on some intuition you feel that she is guilty and therefore not worthy of any support.

The you once again seek refuge in the argument that there are others in similar position. SO WHAT? Shall we stop protesting against one injustice because we can't protest against them all?

Then why do you keep responding to my comments when you dont even fall in the category of people who I am criticizing

Because you are claiming that they are the majority as if you have carried out some survey.
Because you claim that people who support her are doing so because they want to get one up on the USA as if you have psycho-analysed every single one of the protestors.

I will repeat for the third time, until we see evidence of her guilt, until she faces a trial which resembles some sort of a practice of justice, she will remain innocent until proven otherwise and as Pakistanis we have a moral obligation to support our own and the Pakistani government has an official obligation to provide her support.

 

[Maula Jutt]

Wazeeri

Sorry for the late reply, bro. I had forgotten about this thread.

Okay, after reading your last post, I have to ask you something first. Are you talking about principles?

 

[Maula Jutt]

Chacha K:

I have actually read through the Afia website a while back. I just don't agree with the way they portray everything. I also have my reservations about some of Ridley's claims. But that's just my opinion. I respect yours and wish you good luck, bro. To each their own.

 

[1137moiz]

I feel sorry for Mrs Siddiqui but I do agree with Maula Jutt to the point that a lot of people who wouldn't give the suffering women/children in Pakistan a cursory glance are jumping on the bandwagon for this. It is two-faced, and while I believe that the case against Mrs Siddiqui is sketchy at best and unjust at worst, some of the rebuttals posted by her over-ardent supporters are just wide of the mark and will do nothing to help

 

[Maula Jutt]

^ Mr. Wazeeri seems to be confused. While my argument began and ended with criticism of our hypocrite society and how politicians, media and general public have grabbed this issue to forward their own agendas, he is arguing on the principles of the issue and calling other people's comments 'ridiculous', without even finding out where they're coming from.

Aggressive dialog is definitely his style, but that doesn't mean that people who shut up due to that are now agreeing with him. They probably just don't want to talk to him anymore. Which may have given him the erroneous idea that that's the only way he can get his point across - by initiating the conversation with a tight cyber slap. But that usually means one is looking for an argument, not a discussion. And not everyone is looking for an argument.

Had he bothered to ask me straight up if I believe she is guilty, I would have clarified that that;s not the case. Instead, I'm frustrated that there is absolutely NO DEBATE on these issues in Pakistan. In political circles or in media. Constructive dialog about it is essentially taboo. He would have even gotten the gist of it from my post itself had he bothered to actually comprehend it. He clearly didn't, and repeated his old preconceived pointless 'argument' - just because others aren't helped, we shouldn't leave her - when this is clearly not what I'm saying. He seems to believe the end justifies the means, whereas I see serious long and short term problems with this approach.

Being born and growing up in a society also means jack to him until you have a Gallup survey in your back pocket to prove your observations. Applauding his love for stats, I can carry out a survey but then I would be declared a non-reliable source. So I've apparently got to wait for some NGO to take pity on me and spend thousands carrying out an independent survey about everything I observe, so I can come discuss my pov on an online public forum.

And maybe, for maximum effect, I can get my sample group from participants of a rally in one of those Aafia weeks everytime a new development about her comes to light. I'm sure they can spare a few minutes from their effigy and American flag burning to answer a few questions and might even pose for a few pictures that I can provide as back up to my survey results.

He speaks of moral obligations but I find nothing moral about selective justice, especially one derived from hatred.

I would have loved to relay these views to him directly without referring to him in the third person, had he answered my question. I will also not be apologizing for making assumptions about him because he has clearly taken much liberty to subject me to the same.

I will be taking my leave from this thread now. And wish people fighting for her for the right reasons all the luck.

 

[Wazeeri]

Wow I forget to visit the thread for 2 days and Maula goes from 'sorry bro' to 'cyber slap'. What a sissy fit.

It doesn't matter where you or I think my argument or your argument stems from. You made a suggestion that Dr Afia's support comes from a hidden desire among Pakistanis to get one up on the USA. After further dialogues we found that even you have reservations about her treatment which you have accepted merit protest.

Your other argument is that there are other cases like this within Pakistan which go unnoticed. This is true and I don't think anyone can disagree with that, however the correct position on this is to ask for protests on the other issues as well not to ask for a censorship on protests against the treatment of Dr Aafia Siddiqui.

 

[insaftak]

Aafia Sidiqui Was Kidnapped From Karachi: International Justice Network Releases Tape

You could listen to the tape here

http://ijnetwork.org/report/IJNetworkTape.WAV

and read the transcript here

https://docs.google.com/a/ijnetwork...qdXN0LXRoZS1mYWN0c3xneDo3YzE1Y2U5ODk0NGRkYmZk

Page 11-13 is about Aafia.

 

[SIMBA]

It is very shameful- our country disgusts me.

I dont understand the people in Pakistan- so many people still support corrupt idiots like Nawaz, Zardari, Mush etc.

Only Imran Khan could save us.

 

[Saad Hasan]

Mushie supporters who had been defending his sell-out behind all these years report to this thread...

 

[Waseem]

Mushie supporters who had been defending his sell-out behind all these years report to this thread...

Although i strongly believe that Aafia Siddiqui should be released by USA ( guilty or innocent ), i don't think her innocence has been proven even if she was picked up from Karachi.
There is no doubt that Americans act like thugs at times and they do whatever they want but i can NEVER believe that a totally innocent woman living in Karachi can randomly be kidnapped and get accused for all sort of crimes. There are hundreds of thousands of well educated women in Pakistan, tell me how many of those were randomly picked up and got tortured????

Aafia has suffered enough and should be released but let's not pretend that a totally innocent working woman was sold by greedy Musharaff for a few thousand dollars deposited directly to his personal account.

 

[Saad Hasan]

Although i strongly believe that Aafia Siddiqui should be released by USA ( guilty or innocent ), i don't think her innocence has been proven even if she was picked up from Karachi.
There is no doubt that Americans act like thugs at times and they do whatever they want but i can NEVER believe that a totally innocent woman living in Karachi can randomly be kidnapped and get accused for all sort of crimes. There are hundreds of thousands of well educated women in Pakistan, tell me how many of those were randomly picked up and got tortured????

Aafia has suffered enough and should be released but let's not pretend that a totally innocent working woman was sold by greedy Musharaff for a few thousand dollars deposited directly to his personal account.

Innocent of what charge?...You do realize that she was charged and convicted of shooting two american marines...and if you have no doubts about the veracity of that charge then I've got a bridge to sell you as well...

As for Mush only selling totally non-innocent individuals for a few thousand dollars, there are quite a few others who were later found to be totally innocent by the americans themselves to dispel that myth created by Mushie and his disciples...

 

[Black Zero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui