Embarrassing way to play cricket - Heads need to roll

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistan couldnt have asked for a more favourable set of fixtures in WTC cycle, yet they have made a shambles off it, the current cricket being played in last 2 years or so in tests (and other formats) has been boring, negative and uninspiring. All we seem to hear is a load of positive talk from Babar, rameez and co yet reality is the opposite. Reality is pakistan is a mid tier international side, but any side can perform above its level if it has right people in right jobs.

We have a captain who selfishly thinks that just scoring runs and not being bothered about team results is going to cement himself as some sort of legend. No matter the format seems our batsmem are more interested in personal records records then winning games, lets cut cakes and have events to celebrate mediocrity. Babars time as captain is done, just like with Tendulkar, lara, Root etc.. best player in team doesnt make best captain..The fact PCB have given such an unispiring, incompetent captain so much power is dragging pakistan backwards.

Then we have the coach, aka the cheerleader with no game plan just pray and hope for the best. Its clearly obvious the PCB feel guilty they didnt support Saqi at end of his career as a player so now they have given him job as coach as some sort of pity job. Uninspiring and clueless appointment. What game plans has he come up with, selections be made on who performed best in a net session shows how clueless Saqi is when it comes to input with final 11.

Mo wasim, i was willing to give the guy benefit of doubt as he was a new selector and maybe fresh ideas, yet seems like they guy has just been checking stats on his laptop to see who to select, the fact he also hasnt had the guts to drop failing seniors from squad and actually try and build a test team longterm is pretty shameful. Seems every series untried players get dropped, replaced with others based on flavour of the month. The current test squad just looks unbalanced and no thought put into opposition we are facing.

Finally mr motormouth Rameez, seems more interested in PCB revenue by ordering dead wickets series after series so that matches last the distance rather then trying to play to strengths. Every series he feels need to open his mouth and make brash statements and be centre of attention. Then conviently tries to shift blame else where. I dont want to see this guy in any job with PCB or back in commentary box.

4 individuals who are simply not good enough in their jobs and all 4 taking pakistani cricket backwards. Last time i saw such poor negative and uninspiring cricket was when england last won a test series in pakistan under moin khan. Back then it was a similar shambles of individuals in positions within the PCB.

Just like england did with Root, silverwood etc.. pakistan need to do the same. Pakistan will remain a mid tier side there are no miracle cures, but fact we have people in jobs there not fit to do is reason for current show of minnow like medocrity. I was excited at fact we were playing Aus, Eng and NZ, yet PCB think tank has decided to nulify all advantages at home with zero planning.

Babar as captain needs to be sacked
Azhar as a player needs to go
Rameez needs to be sacked
Saqi needs to be sacked
Mo Wasim needs to be sacked

Pakistan cricket aint dead but its going backwards at an alarming rate with current people in charge.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Pakistan WTC chances are very slim.

 

[Shafi]

Should start with Clown Chairman, fraud Saqlain and lool Babar. Azhar needs to be kicked out. We will loose this series by 3-0. So more embarrassment is on the way.

 

[Shafi]

Pakistan WTC chances are very slim.

We never had chances to start with. Only delusional fans thought like that. Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, S Africa are far better than us. We are in the same league of SL, WI, BD and Zim.

 

[Markhor]

Babar isn't going anywhere because the Chairman wants to create a "brand" out of him. He's given him unchecked power.

That's what happens when you appoint parhay likhay jahil into positions of power. IK also should be held accountable for foisting this incompetent narcissist on us.

Anyway the Pakistani public deserve this. You guys praise people who are seen to be doing something, who make themselves centre of attention, and take credit for everything (Ramiz) over someone who quietly gets on with the job in background (Ehsan Mani).

 

[Rana]

Nothing will happen

Expect Ramiz Raja to throw a big ball for the PCB and invite all of the dignitaries

Expect Pakistan team management to hold another cake cutting ceremony for their 4 Test debutants tonight

 

[zaidihusain]

This is most humiliating defeat considering Eng offered golden opportunity to Pak to go for victory at home conditions. Saqlain will give excuses like Shaheen is not playing due to injury, Azhar was playing with injured finger, Harris Rauf was playing with injured shoulder...haar jeet sab qudrat ka nizam hai.
Babar will say we can only give efforts, haar jeet humare hath me nahi hai. This is how Pakistan cricket will continue.

Azhar must be dropped forever; he has played so many test matches and never ever he has finished the game.
In bowling except Naseem no one else is suitable for test matches.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Nothing will change. We are a minnow nation now in sport and in general.

Cheering Babar now at the post match ceremony is an example.

 

[ethan hunt]

Shameful.Cant watch cricket on these tracks and to be bowled out twice against this pop gun english attack.
Babar just wants to score soft runs for his own ranking. Cowards the lot of them. Need an immediate change in the management.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

We never had chances to start with. Only delusional fans thought like that. Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, S Africa are far better than us. We are in the same league of SL, WI, BD and Zim.

No, Pakistan had good chances. Played away tours against small teams.
They would have prepared lively pitches at home.

 

[bones]

Only the 3rd test match defeat to England ever in Pakistan. The defeat in itself is terrible but the manner of the defeat is shambolic. Pakistan have been battered to a pulp.

The breavery, the intelligence and the creativity of England outshone Pakistan big time. A draw or even a miraculous win would not have been fair on England.

 

[hk031992]

Our cricketers are cowards.

Look at how they play in t20 formats. Opening with Babar and Rizwan. How can you open with such two conservative batsmen in a modern t20 era?

Look at how we play ODI cricket and how poorly we played under Misbah in ODI's. Misbah had a 1970's approach to ODI cricket while most top teams had a modern approach.

Same thing with tests. We have players like Azhar Ali in our team. Would any top test team accept such a mediocre player?

Even in tests, you can only have 1 defensive batsmen in the top 6. Just one. Not multiple ones.

We play not to lose. England play to win. England play modern day cricket. Pakistan plays 1950's test cricket, 1970's odi cricket, and 2006's T20 cricket.

All this talk about talent, agression, cornered tigers is nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense. We have won 1 ODI world cup at a time when Australian ODI cricket team wasn't particularly good, WI was declining rapidly, and India and England were decent sides. Our 92 win was due to some exceptional playing by Akram, Inzamam, Miandad and Imran. Exceptional for that era however. That team would not win a world cup in the modern era playing that type of cricket even though Akram would still be the best in the world.

Just because we won 1 50 over world cup a long time ago has given people the impression that you can win based on "talent" alone. Well you can't. Even if you take the most talented players we have had (Akram, Anwar, Saqlain, Inzamam, Imran, Javed etc.), you need more than that. You need strategy and ability to analyze the game. Our players do not have it. They do not have the desire to win.

All our players want to do is to get into the team, win a few games, score a few hundreds, become "superstars" based on a few performances, stay in the team because of their "experience" and "seniority". Look at how Younis Khan, one of the world odi players to ever play so many odi games, still played the 2015 odi world cup. Why? Because he was a "senior" who threw a tantrum when he was dropped.

Look at how on this very forum there was a "support" thread for a mediocre hack like Shoain Malik. Support for what?

We are a medicore cricket nation. Just because we produced a handful of great players in the past doesn't change this.

 

[Rana]

Also expect Ramiz to send out legal notices to anyone criticising this defeat, management and Ramiz’s influence

 

[shah_1]

One of the most humiliating defeat by Pakistan. Pathetic cricketer led by cowardly captain

 

[Amjid Javed]

Also expect Ramiz to send out legal notices to anyone criticising this defeat, management and Ramiz’s influence

I hope the clown does send me a notice, i will give the shameless fraud a piece of my mind )

 

[Energy]

We'll get the same old cliche statements i.e. England played well, Pakistan were looking for a win on Day 5, batsmen did a wonderful job in the first innings, bowlers are new and inexperienced.

There won't be any talk on strategy. Not even an iota.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

One word "ouch"

 

[aukhan]

Babar is getting exposed quickly. He will most likely lose his fan following due to his poor captaincy.

 

[Savak]

Heads definitely need to roll. You cannot be beaten at home period.

 

[Mirpur express]

The negative vibes started soon after Imaam’s dismissal, the intent & approach from Riz & Saud was cringe & we just did not deserve to win this game & a draw would’ve been very unfair on England after such a brave decision, fortunate favours the brave , congrats to the deserving winners

 

[ethan hunt]

Why are they happy being beaten and n flat highways. Why not go for a different pitch, atleast entertain the paying public. Can only imagine Babar the clown wants to score easy runs in cahoot with senior brain trust like Azhar ali and Muhammad negative yousaf.

 

[IAJ]

This was epic Well done England!

Heads need to roll? Yes, but will they? NO!

 

[SpiritOf1903]

The disastrous era of Babar

 

[greatest]

This is what happens when you concentrate too much on white ball cricket, make dead pitches, play a specialist T20 bowler Haris Rauf and select players with zero hunger for Test Cricket

 

[BreadPakoda]

“We have a lot of positives, our batting line-up performed very well and the bowling as well, so we will try to continue that in the next match.“ - Babar Azam

Did I watch a different match? When did Pakistan’s bowling perform well? Batsmen no doubt did a good job of taking the game close in the end.

 

[SamNJ]

Pakistan is the only team which has half a dozen guys clocking 145+ with great control still prepares docile tracks.

 

[amvbfm]

Surely one of the worst test defeats ever suffered by any test playing team. The scorecard might not reflect this but England outplayed us thoroughly in each and every facet of the game. A cumulative run rate of nearly 7 vs about 3 for Pakistan even on this flattest of flat tracks. They bowled out Pakistan twice with only 3 specialist bowlers and took some spectacular catches.

And above all Stokes' captaincy. Easily the best captaincy I have ever seen in a test. He came to win and did everything that he needed to achieve that. His field placements were unprecedented and his bowling changes immaculate. With only 3 specialist bowlers he never let Pakistan relax.

I don't think I have ever seen a match where the two teams were so different in how they approached the game. England signaled their intent even before the match began. They could've easily taken the easy way out and had the game delayed by a day. But they didn't and went into the game with many of their players not at 100% fitness. And from the first over they stamped their authority on the game and never let the intensity waver at any point during the 5 days. They came to win and played like it and created a win out of nothing.

As for Pakistan, the lesser said the better. They scored big in the first innings but were never in the game perhaps barring a brief period when Rizwan and Saud were playing in the second innings. At no point did it seem that they were playing with the intent to win. Bowling was bashed like T20s, the batting fared slightly better but at the first sign of pressure it caved in like always. And yes the captaincy. Perhaps nothing epitomizes the vast gulf between the two teams better than the two captains. Even a zombie would have put in more energy and thought than our captain. It is arguably the single worst piece of captaincy ever in a test.

Where does Pakistan go from here? Don't think much will change as Babar and the management just don't have the ability to do things differently and especially against an opposition that is so motivated and aggressive. Most probably they will recall 2-3 TTFs, rejig the balance with an allrounder, but none of that will make any difference as the captain and management and as a result the team doesn't have the most important quality needed to win games: self-belief. There was very little of it even before the game started and after this loss it will be a miracle if Pakistan go on to beat England. I have my money on them getting even more defensive in the next test and losing the series 2-0.

 

[moghul]

Saqlain should send home to do his real work , which is not coaching of a national team .

 

[greatest]

“We have a lot of positives, our batting line-up performed very well and the bowling as well, so we will try to continue that in the next match.“ - Babar Azam

Did I watch a different match? When did Pakistan’s bowling perform well? Batsmen no doubt did a good job of taking the game close in the end.

His English vocabulary is limited to these sentences which he keeps on repeating after each match.

Please continue this performance because this is your benchmark.

 

[TheSultan]

The problem is - the mediocrity of thinking in this camp. The reaction to this loss by the management, smart operator chairman and simpleton captain babar will be:

Close match. We only just lost because we only had 10 minutes more to survive (bad luck). Everything is rosy.

 

[moghul]

Team came only 2nd to England, again, why not another presidential reception and medals to Saqlain , Babar and Mohd Waseem .

 

[moghul]

His English vocabulary is limited to these sentences which he keeps on repeating after each match.

Please continue this performance because this is your benchmark.

Babar should have courage to talk in Urdu or even Punjabi, he was not sure what he was talking in English .

 

[SamNJ]

Lets face it, Pakistani batting is just not at the level where it can match other top test nations.
Flat pitches will more or less won't work. It takes Pakistan's bowling talent completely out of equation and allows opponent batters to score at will.
Pakistani batters on the same pitch don't have the talent or skill levels to match top class opponent batters.
The games on such pitches will mostly be earned draws or defeats.

The only way Pakistan can play their own exciting brand of Cricket is play to their strength.
Prepare green wickets.
Identify pool of fast bowlers who can bowl long spells at good pace from first class and play a 4 man pace attack.

Yes, there will be a few series defeats even with this approach but at least Pakistan will have a fair chance where they can run through opponent batting line ups and a fighting knock or two from batsmen puts them in good position.
It will also create a unique brand of cricket for Pakistan. Top nations will love to play in Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

As I keep saying, the problem is not the team & the way they play. The problem is the fans expectations.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans expect from the players & what they are actually capable of.

Except Shaheen, not a single Pakistani player is as good as their fans think. This includes players like Babar, Rizwan & the overrated mediocre pacers like Naseem & Rauf.

If you expect a chicken to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the chicken’s.

Pakistan is a mediocre team & it will remain a mediocre team. There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.

Not every team is supposed to be top drawer. Not every team & not every player can be a champion. Learn to celebrate & accept mediocrity & lower your expectations.

Pakistan is a mid-table team that is roughly in the same league as the likes of West Indies & Sri Lanka. Be happy with what you have because it could have been worse.

 

[Sarwar89]

As I keep saying, the problem is not the team & the way they play. The problem is the fans expectations.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans expect from the players & what they are actually capable of.

Except Shaheen, not a single Pakistani player is as good as their fans think. This includes players like Babar, Rizwan & the overrated mediocre pacers like Naseem & Rauf.

If you expect a chicken to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the chicken’s.

Pakistan is a mediocre team & it will remain a mediocre team. There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.

Not every team is supposed to be top drawer. Not every team & not every player can be a champion. Learn to celebrate & accept mediocrity & lower your expectations.

Pakistan is a mid-table team that is roughly in the same league as the likes of West Indies & Sri Lanka. Be happy with what you have because it could have been worse.

In general our public demands a lot, there is a historical reason behind it mainly due to unbelievable success in hockey winning 4 world cups & olymics and all, when cricket started to blossom in Pakistan from late 1970’s public felt we will replicate hockey success into cricket. Which never happened, but we had some decent success from 1987-1995 period.

Overall our Test team has been under decline since 1995 and 27 years on it has not changed. Because Test cricket is not priority in Pakistan. ( it might improve but will take some time).

 

[ethan hunt]

Aqib javed spot on: “ banao kisi bowler ko captain, phir dekho aisi wickets kaise banti hain”
All on Babar this. He sets the tone as the leader.

 

[Amjid Javed]

As I keep saying, the problem is not the team & the way they play. The problem is the fans expectations.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans expect from the players & what they are actually capable of.

Except Shaheen, not a single Pakistani player is as good as their fans think. This includes players like Babar, Rizwan & the overrated mediocre pacers like Naseem & Rauf.

If you expect a chicken to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the chicken’s.

Pakistan is a mediocre team & it will remain a mediocre team. There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.

Not every team is supposed to be top drawer. Not every team & not every player can be a champion. Learn to celebrate & accept mediocrity & lower your expectations.

Pakistan is a mid-table team that is roughly in the same league as the likes of West Indies & Sri Lanka. Be happy with what you have because it could have been worse.

No is saying pakistan is world beaters, but facts are if you have incompetent people in key area of team on and off field then you aint going to get best out of your resources. Pakistan cant do a lot better then rubbish they have served up in last 2 years under Babar. The fact team cant even utilize home advantage shows the negative and cowardice approach.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Babar needs to be held responsible for this rubbish show. He got owned by Pat Cummins, and now Ben Stokes in his own conditions. Should step down gracefully before he causes more embarrassment.

Ben Stokes just made him look like an absolute tool here. Sickening performance.

 

[Mamoon]

No is saying pakistan is world beaters, but facts are if you have incompetent people in key area of team on and off field then you aint going to get best out of your resources. Pakistan cant do a lot better then rubbish they have served up in last 2 years under Babar. The fact team cant even utilize home advantage shows the negative and cowardice approach.

It is not just the incompetence of the board & the management. That is a coping mechanism. The reality is that the players are also not good enough.

For example, had Pakistan picked some random fast bowlers from domestic cricket for this match and Naseem & Rauf were injured or rested, the same fans would be saying that had Naseem & Rauf played, England would not have smashed them & Pakistan could have won the match.

Yet they played & England destroyed them & they ended up with economy rates of 6+.

Pakistan’s coping mechanism is the following: the captaincy is bad, the management is bad, the chairman is bad, XYZ player should have played etc.

None of this is valid criticism. The only thing that matter is how good your players are. That is it.

People talk about Bazball etc., but Bazball cannot work if your batsmen do not have the ability to execute. Do you think players like Azhar Ali & Fawad Alam can execute Bazball under Stokes & McCullum?

Captaincy, management, leadership etc. all these factors make a difference when you have quality players at your disposal. That is the number one fundamental requirement.

Pakistan has no talent, no quality players to pick from. All they have is a bunch of average players that get overhyped out of desperation.

This is why the fans need to lower their expectations. The same McCullum would be scratching his head & giving excuses for defeats if he was the Pakistan coach.

 

[Shafi]

As I keep saying, the problem is not the team & the way they play. The problem is the fans expectations.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans expect from the players & what they are actually capable of.

Except Shaheen, not a single Pakistani player is as good as their fans think. This includes players like Babar, Rizwan & the overrated mediocre pacers like Naseem & Rauf.

If you expect a chicken to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the chicken’s.

Pakistan is a mediocre team & it will remain a mediocre team. There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.

Not every team is supposed to be top drawer. Not every team & not every player can be a champion. Learn to celebrate & accept mediocrity & lower your expectations.

Pakistan is a mid-table team that is roughly in the same league as the likes of West Indies & Sri Lanka. Be happy with what you have because it could have been worse.

So if our team is that bad then we should be happy to loose by 70+ runs instead of innings plus Babar shouldn't be criticised because team is really bad. So Saqlain, Babar both should continue for another 5 years and playing should be same way.

 

[Mamoon]

So if our team is that bad then we should be happy to loose by 70+ runs instead of innings plus Babar shouldn't be criticised because team is really bad. So Saqlain, Babar both should continue for another 5 years and playing should be same way.

Yes we should be happy. Every time we don’t get obliterated by a top team is a bonus for a weak team like Pakistan.

West Indies should be proud of the way they played in Australia in the first Test. They played above their level. Similarly, Pakistan should be proud of the fact that they did not lose by an innings after England scored 650+.

They did really well in the first innings considering their lack of quality.

Ask yourself: what is the number one fundamental requirement of having a great team?

It is not great leadership, it is having great players. As long as you don’t have world class players, it is impossible to be a world class team.

Bad captaincy can turn a world class team into an underperforming one, but good captaincy cannot turn a mediocre bunch into a world class team. It is simply impossible.

Pakistan can keep changing captains, coaches & PCB chairmen but as long as it doesn’t start producing world class players, it will keep producing such performances.

 

[Shafi]

It is not just the incompetence of the board & the management. That is a coping mechanism. The reality is that the players are also not good enough.

For example, had Pakistan picked some random fast bowlers from domestic cricket for this match and Naseem & Rauf were injured or rested, the same fans would be saying that had Naseem & Rauf played, England would not have smashed them & Pakistan could have won the match.

Yet they played & England destroyed them & they ended up with economy rates of 6+.

Pakistan’s coping mechanism is the following: the captaincy is bad, the management is bad, the chairman is bad, XYZ player should have played etc.

None of this is valid criticism. The only thing that matter is how good your players are. That is it.

People talk about Bazball etc., but Bazball cannot work if your batsmen do not have the ability to execute. Do you think players like Azhar Ali & Fawad Alam can execute Bazball under Stokes & McCullum?

Captaincy, management, leadership etc. all these factors make a difference when you have quality players at your disposal. That is the number one fundamental requirement.

Pakistan has no talent, no quality players to pick from. All they have is a bunch of average players that get overhyped out of desperation.

This is why the fans need to lower their expectations. The same McCullum would be scratching his head & giving excuses for defeats if he was the Pakistan coach.

So according to you no point to change players, captain or coach because there is no talents or skill. Its unfair to criticise someone who doesn't has talent. Not sure why you criticising Pakistan team, captain Babar or Saqlain if they don't have it?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The problem with our cricket is not a lack of talent or a lack of facilities ( of course, we don't possess either of these things in abundance, either), but it is a complete lack of cricketing intelligence.

Test match cricket requires an exceptional level of patience, skill and tactical awareness. It is not just a case of bowling faster or batting bravely. Test matches and test series are won by the ability to outthink and out-manoeuvre the opposition, to set your traps and avoid the traps of the opposition.

Unfortunately, we do not have a cricketing culture that values these traits, nor do we have a culture that cultivates them.

For example, the famous England captain Mike Brearley mentioned that for captaincy, "Technically, you need to know the game completely. You need to have great pleasure and interest in tactics. You need to be both inventive and cautious and move between attack and defence without too much of a radical shift"
Pleasure and interest in tactics start to be developed at a relatively young age. It develops not just from playing the game but from studying it and devouring cricketing media.

Initially, it develops through watching cricket with older members of the family, or subsequently, it is developed through critiques of your own game by family members ( fathers, uncles etc.).

Following this, a person's own interest is piqued, and they start to watch games on their own, listen to commentators and pundits, and then when the interest is fully developed, books are read to understand how older legends of the games approached their career events, historic matches are watched and understood, and a cricketing IQ is developed.

Unfortunately, none of the above exists in Pakistan.

Kids are actively discouraged from playing/watching cricket by Family members. We have all heard countless stories about how players would sneak out to play games while their strict parents would berate them for playing too much and encourage them to do something else. There is no initial development of sporting intelligence as is the case in western countries by going to watch matches together in the ground or taking kids to play sports on the weekend.

Our cricketing media is also third-rate; there is very little tactical discussion about field placements, strategies or gameplans on our television channels resulting in no exposure to the finer elements of the game.

Our players also do not have the capability to go out and seek information or develop a deeper appreciation of the game. I think if you were to ask one of our current players to name a test match from before their time or to name their favourite cricketing book, they would look at you blankly.

Don Bradman once stated that a good captain must know a fair degree about the history of the game and read a lot about it. Unfortunately, this will never be the case in Pakistan. I know the quotes from Brearley and Bradman relate to captains, but one can quite easily extrapolate their statements to apply to all players.

You may argue that Pakistan was competitive in the past, but cricket wasn't played at such a high standard, it was more of an amateur, and our finest captains ( barring the great Miandad, who was very astute) had an excellent finishing school in county cricket.

I am well aware that sport, by its very nature, is a physical game, but without cultivating and developing the mental and strategic side of it ( from a very young age), there is no chance of consistently being a top team in test cricket.. We do not have a culture that understands or values test cricket. In fact I think we should slowly abandon it and focus more on LOI where some brief flashes of individual brilliance can be enough to win.

 

[Shafi]

Yes we should be happy. Every time we don’t get obliterated by a top team is a bonus for a weak team like Pakistan.

West Indies should be proud of the way they played in Australia in the first Test. They played above their level. Similarly, Pakistan should be proud of the fact that they did not lose by an innings after England scored 650+.

They did really well in the first innings considering their lack of quality.

Ask yourself: what is the number one fundamental requirement of having a great team?

It is not great leadership, it is having great players. As long as you don’t have world class players, it is impossible to be a world class team.

Bad captaincy can turn a world class team into an underperforming one, but good captaincy cannot turn a mediocre bunch into a world class team. It is simply impossible.

Pakistan can keep changing captains, coaches & PCB chairmen but as long as it doesn’t start producing world class players, it will keep producing such performances.

So we will keep same people in managements and team and play our traditional way instead of trying harder or different.

 

[Mamoon]

So according to you no point to change players, captain or coach because there is no talents or skill. Its unfair to criticise someone who doesn't has talent. Not sure why you criticising Pakistan team, captain Babar or Saqlain if they don't have it?

There is a reason why I criticize the fans more than the players. Whenever we lose, I say the fans deserve this humiliation. I don’t say the players & the board deserves this humiliation.

 

[Mamoon]

So we will keep same people in managements and team and play our traditional way instead of trying harder or different.

Captains & coaches live & die by results. Change them, that is fine but don’t expect any long-term improvement as long as you are not producing top quality players.

 

[dildilpak]

Doctoring pitch to secure a draw & still losing, this is embarrassing to say the least. Years & years of ignoring red ball cricket has brought Pakistan to this point that we have lost all confidence to play on swinging/bouncy or even spinning wickets & we are doctoring pitches only to showcase that Babar Azam is the best batsman in the world.

Both Babar & RR need to go, they are just pandering to their own ego without team interests in mind.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I am going to go against the grain.

England's new approach, no matter how amazing, will eventually be worked out by teams.

They have the surprise factor at their hands.

They were rescued many times by Bairstow when playing in England or they would have lost those series. And then they would have lost in Pakistan the first game too if Pakistan weren't so timid.

They have the advantage of surprise but teams will make plans accordingly - as if playing a T20 game. They will deploy fielders accordingly, play different kind of bowlers, new tactics. I am not convinced England will win a lot with this approach.

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we want results - win or lose. No sport allows this. It's always about winning.

Pakistan will be better off following their own template and take the game to England in the next match. Making ultra spinning track, play 3 spinners, get their strokemakers muddled and come up with T20 lengths while bowling.

Who knows where the next game goes.

 

[Bewal Express]

Whenever we play at home on supporting wickets, we win more than we lose. Look at Ind game at Lahore in 2004 or Karachi in 2006, played on supporting wickets and we won both, look at SA match at Lahore in 2003, again a supporting wicket and we won. I am not sure why our Administrators and Captains are so negative. Let's assume we lose the matches, will the world end? No, the sun will rise tomorrow and life will carry on. I said a few days ago that RR needs to resign, too many excuses and no positive thinking. Babar is the only one that can Captain this team at this point in time but if this negative nonsense continues, let him play as a batsman and let someone else take over.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am going to go against the grain.

England's new approach, no matter how amazing, will eventually be worked out by teams.

They have the surprise factor at their hands.

They were rescued many times by Bairstow when playing in England or they would have lost those series. And then they would have lost in Pakistan the first game too if Pakistan weren't so timid.

They have the advantage of surprise but teams will make plans accordingly - as if playing a T20 game. They will deploy fielders accordingly, play different kind of bowlers, new tactics. I am not convinced England will win a lot with this approach.

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we want results - win or lose. No sport allows this. It's always about winning.

Pakistan will be better off following their own template and take the game to England in the next match. Making ultra spinning track, play 3 spinners, get their strokemakers muddled and come up with T20 lengths while bowling.

Who knows where the next game goes.

The problem with playing with spinning tracks is that we struggle as much as the opposition and we lose the toss, we will bat last and lose. Our strength is our pace bowlers, they are good bowlers, let's trust them

 

[Pakpak]

This is what happens when you concentrate too much on white ball cricket, make dead pitches, play a specialist T20 bowler Haris Rauf and select players with zero hunger for Test Cricket

Bowlers see the pathetic flat tracks and any sane bowler will not risk the gravy train of T20s (which can set them up for life) vs the ghatiya dead souless road

 

[Amjid Javed]

Whenever we play at home on supporting wickets, we win more than we lose. Look at Ind game at Lahore in 2004 or Karachi in 2006, played on supporting wickets and we won both, look at SA match at Lahore in 2003, again a supporting wicket and we won. I am not sure why our Administrators and Captains are so negative. Let's assume we lose the matches, will the world end? No, the sun will rise tomorrow and life will carry on. I said a few days ago that RR needs to resign, too many excuses and no positive thinking. Babar is the only one that can Captain this team at this point in time but if this negative nonsense continues, let him play as a batsman and let someone else take over.

Current players are scared of testing themselves on sporting tracks, they would rather get easy meaningless 100s on roads for their own so called legacy, its same in all formats. When they hold events to celebrate failure thats where current clowns in key positions in PCB are taking pakistani cricket backwards.

 

[topspin]

Nothing will happen

Expect Ramiz Raja to throw a big ball for the PCB and invite all of the dignitaries

Expect Pakistan team management to hold another cake cutting ceremony for their 4 Test debutants tonight

Ah yes who can forget about this remnant of Misbah's era

 

[Nasty Naz]

Pakistan deserve better but we will not get it with Babar & Saqlain conservative mindset.

It's been proven over and over again that it's not a one-off, it is the instilled mentality in them that they continue to play in this garbage way and I don't see that change happening. Even if another coach comes or the captain is replaced, it will just be another conservative former player that will become captain or they will pass on the captaincy to another timid player so the cycle can continue.

 

[topspin]

Babar isn't going anywhere because the Chairman wants to create a "brand" out of him. He's given him unchecked power.

That's what happens when you appoint parhay likhay jahil into positions of power. IK also should be held accountable for foisting this incompetent narcissist on us.

Anyway the Pakistani public deserve this. You guys praise people who are seen to be doing something, who make themselves centre of attention, and take credit for everything (Ramiz) over someone who quietly gets on with the job in background (Ehsan Mani).

Spot on.

As I mentioned earlier, IK played his part by taking Pakistan to a new level of low when he got Mickey replaced by Misbah. He also sacked Sethi who was doing a wonderful job and later appointed RR who has been a failure so far.

I used to support PTI but I lost confidence in IK after seeing the effects of his incompetence on Pakistan cricket.

As you rightly say, Pakistani public deserve this.

 

[Ami]

Eng brand will not last for long.
They will get found out and teams will be better prepared.
Personally, I dont think Pak picked their best eleven. They had better players sittnng on rhe bench. Better bowlers.
Another thing, they just fear losing and do not 'have a go'!

 

[topspin]

I'm actually delighted England won because they came out to win whereas our skipper was more concerned about padding his stats and avoiding defeat.

Don't let the post match presentation fool you, he approved of this wicket and I wouldn't past him to actually order for this surface to be created.

It would've been an absolute travesty had Pakistan won this test match because it would've been an absolute farce. Not only had England had dominated the entire contest but they were the only side who came out to win.

This is indeed one of their best wins in their entire test history and no one except them should cutting cake in Rawalpindi tonight.

 

[Mamoon]

Eng brand will not last for long.
They will get found out and teams will be better prepared.
Personally, I dont think Pak picked their best eleven. They had better players sittnng on rhe bench. Better bowlers.
Another thing, they just fear losing and do not 'have a go'!

Except Pakistan’s mediocrity, nothing lasts forever. Bazball will end one day because England will adapt to different conditions & circumstances but it is great & it will be remembered forever.

England have reinvented Test cricket & have adopted a playing style that was never implemented before. It was done out of necessity but it has worked out brilliantly so far.

 

[Bewal Express]

Current players are scared of testing themselves on sporting tracks, they would rather get easy meaningless 100s on roads for their own so called legacy, its same in all formats. When they hold events to celebrate failure thats where current clowns in key positions in PCB are taking pakistani cricket backwards.

It's not for the players to decide and thats why Rambo needs to go. Any Sane fan isn't asking for green mambas, just wickets that are good for all types of players.

 

[Bewal Express]

And I am not buying this nonsense that Babar can't play on testing wickets. Babar played at Old Trafford on a very testing wicket and showed excellent technique. Babar is a good player and if its him asking for the flat wickets then that shows fear of defeat more than stats padding.

 

[shamaan]

We played the wrong team and the dismissals were soft.

 

[Amjid Javed]

It's not for the players to decide and thats why Rambo needs to go. Any Sane fan isn't asking for green mambas, just wickets that are good for all types of players.

100% agree groundsmen should prepare best surface for an good balanced game, sadly we have had roads ordered instead which just nulifys any so called home advantage, players clearly dont have confidence in themselves to compete which is shameful when they still manage to lose like this.

 

[TheSultan]

As I keep saying, the problem is not the team & the way they play. The problem is the fans expectations.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans expect from the players & what they are actually capable of.

Except Shaheen, not a single Pakistani player is as good as their fans think. This includes players like Babar, Rizwan & the overrated mediocre pacers like Naseem & Rauf.

If you expect a chicken to fly like a falcon it is your fault not the chicken’s.

Pakistan is a mediocre team & it will remain a mediocre team. There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.

Not every team is supposed to be top drawer. Not every team & not every player can be a champion. Learn to celebrate & accept mediocrity & lower your expectations.

Pakistan is a mid-table team that is roughly in the same league as the likes of West Indies & Sri Lanka. Be happy with what you have because it could have been worse.

I know this is supposed to be a “provocative” post. You’ve got some replies and it’s well written so good job.

But ultimately this is a very simplistic view that is very easy to debunk. Management, strategy and approach make a difference Look at England - same team as last year, different leadership, different results.

 

[moghul]

And I am not buying this nonsense that Babar can't play on testing wickets. Babar played at Old Trafford on a very testing wicket and showed excellent technique. Babar is a good player and if its him asking for the flat wickets then that shows fear of defeat more than stats padding.

Yes, Babar can play at any wickets, England or Australia or anywhere , but Azhar cannot and he is the one which is more important for PCB, just to give the guy 100 tests .

 

[Kroll]

Absolute shambles and embarrassment. We’ve basically been a test specimen for England experimentation.

Nothing will happen, nothing will change. Bunch of shameless clowns from top to bottom.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, Babar can play at any wickets, England or Australia or anywhere , but Azhar cannot and he is the one which is more important for PCB, just to give the guy 100 tests .

Somehow in the sub continent we are obsessed with pointless landmarks that havent been earnt. AA like Hafeez and Malik has had close to a decade longer than his talent ever deserved. One of the reasons is the poor standard of journalism in PK where the guys creating the narrative know less than 99% of people on here. And if you dont believe me, watch the terrible questions asked at press conferences.

 

[Saj]

579 all out and looked fine and the match heading to a draw.

I'd like to know what was said to them when they went out to bat in the 2nd innings especially after Tea.

What was the plan, the thinking and the agreed approach.

Terrible performance and nothing short of embarrassing.

 

[Mamoon]

I know this is supposed to be a “provocative” post. You’ve got some replies and it’s well written so good job.

But ultimately this is a very simplistic view that is very easy to debunk. Management, strategy and approach make a difference Look at England - same team as last year, different leadership, different results.

Different results because the players had potential & the different strategy was able to exploit that potential.

England have an embarrassment of riches when it comes aggressive-minded batsman. What they lack are classical, orthodox Test batsman.

Apart from Root & maybe Pope, they don’t have anyone right now who can play 250 balls in a Test innings but they have planet of batsmen who can score a 70 or an 80 in 100 balls.

This Bazball stuff was implemented out of necessity because England was going nowhere with their traditional approach. They just didn’t have the batsmen with that discipline & powers of concentration.

Bairstow was struggling to bat in Tests but as soon as McCullum & Stokes liberated hun & asked him to bat in Tests the way he does in ODIs, he started scoring for fun.

The deliveries that he was getting out to by poking outside the off stump or by getting bowled while playing tentative defensive shots were getting dispatched to the boundary because he no longer had any obligation to occupy the crease & see off the bowlers.

Jos Buttler has struggled a lot in Tests over the last year or so but if you bring him into the side now, he will turn into the demon that we see in ODI & T20 cricket.

Harry Brook averages mid 30s in County but he scored 240 runs at a SR of 130+ in a Test match. If not for Bazball, he would be averaging mid 30s in Test cricket too.

My point is that leadership makes a difference but only when you have good enough players to execute what you are trying to do.

There are hundreds of batsmen in County cricket who will fail to implement Bazball strategy because they don’t have the talent & skill to play such shots.

Someone like Cook, who is an England legend & still probably the best orthodox opener in County would be a resounding failure if he tries to play Bazball.

No leadership can turn average players into quality players. You cannot polish a **** but you can point good players in the right direction.

England’s transformation since the last summer is not because McCullum & Stokes have a magic wand who enhanced the talent & skill level of average players.

They transformed because the previous management was making these players play a style of cricket that was not their strength.

One can imagine the results if players like Azhar Ali, Masood, Fawad Alam etc. try their hands on Bazball. It just wouldn’t work.

I look at the current Pakistan team & I don’t see any genuine talent & the skill level seems very low. Apart from Babar, I don’t see any batsman with genuine world class potential. Maybe Babar would benefit from a top coach, but the others not so much.

The most basic, fundamental requirement of building a quality team is having quality players. You cannot substitute that with great leadership.

Great leadership will maximize the quality of the players & set them up for success. Similarly, bad leadership will minimize the quality of the players & set them up for failure.

But great leadership cannot make average players great. It never has & never will.

Babar might be a bad captain, Saqlain & Yousuf might be bad coaches, but Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the captaincy & the coaches but the fact that the pool of players is very average & I don’t see this set of players excelling under any leadership.

 

[Saj]

To be honest our Test team is really weak and this series against England will most likely be another wake-up call for fans.

From the top, to the selectors to the coaching staff - changes are needed.

The priority seems to be T20Is and the PSL resulting in Test cricket being an afterthought.

 

[Forum363]

It is not just the incompetence of the board & the management. That is a coping mechanism. The reality is that the players are also not good enough.

For example, had Pakistan picked some random fast bowlers from domestic cricket for this match and Naseem & Rauf were injured or rested, the same fans would be saying that had Naseem & Rauf played, England would not have smashed them & Pakistan could have won the match.

Yet they played & England destroyed them & they ended up with economy rates of 6+.

Pakistan’s coping mechanism is the following: the captaincy is bad, the management is bad, the chairman is bad, XYZ player should have played etc.

None of this is valid criticism. The only thing that matter is how good your players are. That is it.

People talk about Bazball etc., but Bazball cannot work if your batsmen do not have the ability to execute. Do you think players like Azhar Ali & Fawad Alam can execute Bazball under Stokes & McCullum?

Captaincy, management, leadership etc. all these factors make a difference when you have quality players at your disposal. That is the number one fundamental requirement.

Pakistan has no talent, no quality players to pick from. All they have is a bunch of average players that get overhyped out of desperation.

This is why the fans need to lower their expectations. The same McCullum would be scratching his head & giving excuses for defeats if he was the Pakistan coach.

That's complete rubbish.

Weren't you the one saying how Root should not be replaced because England have a rubbish batting line up and changing the captain will make no difference.

Guess what - Root lost 16 out of 17 matches whereas Stokes has won 7 or 8 since he became captain. So of course the captain / management / approach makes a difference.

Now pakistan might not become world beaters if they change their approach but it will certainly make a significant difference.

 

[Zaz]

579 all out and looked fine and the match heading to a draw.

I'd like to know what was said to them when they went out to bat in the 2nd innings especially after Tea.

What was the plan, the thinking and the agreed approach.

Terrible performance and nothing short of embarrassing.

The mentality has been clear for a long time

One team went into the last innnings to win the other to avoid losing

Its shambolic how timid and directionless this team is and has been for years

Theres no identity, no will to win and no personality

Where are the characters the personalities that will take the game to england and trade blows with them? I see none in the squad or coachinf staff

You may be low on talent but you cant be low on spirit and fight

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Different results because the players had potential & the different strategy was able to exploit that potential.

England have an embarrassment of riches when it comes aggressive-minded batsman. What they lack are classical, orthodox Test batsman.

Apart from Root & maybe Pope, they don’t have anyone right now who can play 250 balls in a Test innings but they have planet of batsmen who can score a 70 or an 80 in 100 balls.

This Bazball stuff was implemented out of necessity because England was going nowhere with their traditional approach. They just didn’t have the batsmen with that discipline & powers of concentration.

Bairstow was struggling to bat in Tests but as soon as McCullum & Stokes liberated hun & asked him to bat in Tests the way he does in ODIs, he started scoring for fun.

The deliveries that he was getting out to by poking outside the off stump or by getting bowled while playing tentative defensive shots were getting dispatched to the boundary because he no longer had any obligation to occupy the crease & see off the bowlers.

Jos Buttler has struggled a lot in Tests over the last year or so but if you bring him into the side now, he will turn into the demon that we see in ODI & T20 cricket.

Harry Brook averages mid 30s in County but he scored 240 runs at a SR of 130+ in a Test match. If not for Bazball, he would be averaging mid 30s in Test cricket too.

My point is that leadership makes a difference but only when you have good enough players to execute what you are trying to do.

There are hundreds of batsmen in County cricket who will fail to implement Bazball strategy because they don’t have the talent & skill to play such shots.

Someone like Cook, who is an England legend & still probably the best orthodox opener in County would be a resounding failure if he tries to play Bazball.

No leadership can turn average players into quality players. You cannot polish a **** but you can point good players in the right direction.

England’s transformation since the last summer is not because McCullum & Stokes have a magic wand who enhanced the talent & skill level of average players.

They transformed because the previous management was making these players play a style of cricket that was not their strength.

One can imagine the results if players like Azhar Ali, Masood, Fawad Alam etc. try their hands on Bazball. It just wouldn’t work.

I look at the current Pakistan team & I don’t see any genuine talent & the skill level seems very low. Apart from Babar, I don’t see any batsman with genuine world class potential. Maybe Babar would benefit from a top coach, but the others not so much.

The most basic, fundamental requirement of building a quality team is having quality players. You cannot substitute that with great leadership.

Great leadership will maximize the quality of the players & set them up for success. Similarly, bad leadership will minimize the quality of the players & set them up for failure.

But great leadership cannot make average players great. It never has & never will.

Babar might be a bad captain, Saqlain & Yousuf might be bad coaches, but Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the captaincy & the coaches but the fact that the pool of players is very average & I don’t see this set of players excelling under any leadership.

It boils down to infrastructure. Lack of talent being translated. Raw talent is always there. That's why Pakistan still manage to cause the occasional upset victories. Babar is perhaps the only player who was.invested in heavily right from a young age, due to his family's cricketing connections and that's the best we can get out of it. Simple as that. Shaheen and Imam were also really lucky in that they came from a cricketing family . Compare them to Rauf who was literally picked up from a tape ball tournament and manages to make it into the team. Rauf has exceeded expectations by doing that. Imagine what he would have been with proper development from a young age. Perhaps not as drastic, but most of the rest of the team just don't have enough investment in them. They can wing it in T20s but when it comes to showcasing skills in longer formats of the game they fail to deliver.
It also explains why Pakistan can unearth fast bowlers so easily. They find someone who bowls fast and throw him into the side without any development whatsoever. They can't do the same with batsmen which is why Pakistan find it difficult to find quality batters.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

The mentality has been clear for a long time

One team went into the last innnings to win the other to avoid losing

Its shambolic how timid and directionless this team is and has been for years

Theres no identity, no will to win and no personality

Where are the characters the personalities that will take the game to england and trade blows with them? I see none in the squad or coachinf staff

You may be low on talent but you cant be low on spirit and fight

Well last time we had that in Tests was 2012 to 2016 and previously 2005 to 2006.

We need a Smith type saviour as captain.

 

[PakLFC]

Only thing rolling here is the roti in the kitchen. We have been here so many times that it doesn't even hurt any more. Ramiz will make the same comments followed by another tedious press conference by Babar Awan. Fans here will insist that Babar is a great batsman and all who isn't being given the tools, players and time to get the job done. As I often say the sports culture reflects the state of the country. Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[wrongun]

You can't roll out a Test attack with a combine 15 Tests experience and <50 Test wickets between them and be surprised they get overwhelmed when attacked. It's absurd.

Massive planning fail. There is zero in place around Shaheen, who will in turn get bowled into the ground.

 

[Cric1234]

When people say Pakistan don’t have attacking batsmen to score quickly on flat wickets they are wrong.

Umar Akmal Haider Fakhar are all attacking batsmen that can score quick 50s and 100s on these wickets if I was in charge the test team would be a lot more entertaining to watch regardless of results.

During his prime Akmal was Pakistan’s best batsman in tests he could have scored a few big hundreds on these type of wickets but wasn’t selected Haider has shown potential in first class to make it in test cricket.

Fakhar at number 3 is a much better option than Azhar in Asia as a quick 50 is much better than the dross Azhar has been serving up for years now.

As you can see Pakistan does have the batsmen and potential to adopt a more attacking approach in tests but when you have Babar and Saqlain in charge then expect more 40 strike rate batsmen to be selected as that’s their idea what a test batsman has to do first and foremost to be selected basically anyone who’s timid low strike rate player.

Despite the test team being barely above minnow level expect more of the same for a long time to come the people in charge will make sure of that.

 

[BreadPakoda]

When people say Pakistan don’t have attacking batsmen to score quickly on flat wickets they are wrong.

Umar Akmal Haider Fakhar are all attacking batsmen that can score quick 50s and 100s on these wickets if I was in charge the test team would be a lot more entertaining to watch regardless of results.

During his prime Akmal was Pakistan’s best batsman in tests he could have scored a few big hundreds on these type of wickets but wasn’t selected Haider has shown potential in first class to make it in test cricket.

Fakhar at number 3 is a much better option than Azhar in Asia as a quick 50 is much better than the dross Azhar has been serving up for years now.

As you can see Pakistan does have the batsmen and potential to adopt a more attacking approach in tests but when you have Babar and Saqlain in charge then expect more 40 strike rate batsmen to be selected as that’s their idea what a test batsman has to do first and foremost to be selected basically anyone who’s timid low strike rate player.

Despite the test team being barely above minnow level expect more of the same for a long time to come the people in charge will make sure of that.

Umar Akmal
Haider
Fakhar

You’ve suggested an interesting top order. Add Sharjeel, Asif and Iftikhar to it and you’ll have an explosive combination. Either 8/6 in 2 overs or 400/4 in 50 overs. Recommend PCT to run this experiment. I’ll watch it for sure. Make Umar Akmal captain and I’ll throw a game watch party at my house.

 

[Cric1234]

Umar Akmal
Haider
Fakhar

You’ve suggested an interesting top order. Add Sharjeel, Asif and Iftikhar to it and you’ll have an explosive combination. Either 8/6 in 2 overs or 400/4 in 50 overs. Recommend PCT to run this experiment. I’ll watch it for sure. Make Umar Akmal captain and I’ll throw a game watch party at my house.

I wouldn’t select the other 3 a test line up of:

Abdullah
Imam
Haider
Babar
Akmal
Saud
Rizwan

I wouldn’t select Imam aswell outside a few grounds in Pakistan Fakhar would be in the squad the whole demeaner will change once more batsmen are scoring quickly not like the team can do any worse.

 

[Cric1234]

Umar Akmal
Haider
Fakhar

You’ve suggested an interesting top order. Add Sharjeel, Asif and Iftikhar to it and you’ll have an explosive combination. Either 8/6 in 2 overs or 400/4 in 50 overs. Recommend PCT to run this experiment. I’ll watch it for sure. Make Umar Akmal captain and I’ll throw a game watch party at my house.

Asif and Iftikhar are not good enough for tests Sharjeel maybe on a flat wicket like Rawalpindi a 80(90) innings is definitely possible on a wicket with no help for the fast bowlers.

 

[samiakh]

To be honest our Test team is really weak and this series against England will most likely be another wake-up call for fans.

From the top, to the selectors to the coaching staff - changes are needed.

The priority seems to be T20Is and the PSL resulting in Test cricket being an afterthought.

This is the main point. Since Hasan and yasir lost thier mojo, Shaheen got injured we simply don’t have the capability to take 20 wickets in a test match. There are no spinners on the horizon, we keep trying random people like Mohammed Ali there is no plan to develop depth. We bowled Shaheen into the ground now we are doing the same with Naseem. To think Haris was a test bowler shows how desperate we are. If it had not been for Shafique 100 against SL we would have lost that series too.