England and Pakistan. A tale of two boards

Abid Z

First Class Player
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
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3,136
I know the fans are hurting from the recent performances in the World Cup. The great thing about falling down is you can’t possibly sink any lower. The question simply is this, is Pakistan cricket currently the worst it can be. I’m not saying that the team is the worst by any means, a few fluke performances may still delude us into thinking we are a string team but certainly we are in the doldrums like England were in the 1990’s. There are some lessons to learn though.

In 1992 a tournament I watched every match of, England were simply unbeatable. So dominant were they that the final was deemed a mere formality but Pakistan being the fluke that they are pulled the rug from beneath them. For all the aging stars that England possessed, Pakistan matched in equal number except we prepared better for the future with a few key players. Aqib, inzi, Mushtaq I think were all on debut.

1996 was not awful for Pak and 1999 was the highlight where we competed with the top teams of South Africa and Australia in both tests and odis but England in the 1990’s were as bad as we are now.

What did England do and what lessons are there for Pakistan?

There were a few good players after 1993- atherton, Alec Stewart and Graeme Thorpe in the batting. Gough and caddick in the bowling. But a few others just didn’t come good however hard they tried. (Hick, Salisbury and ramprakash)

Point: A few good players doesn’t a good team make. England had early exits in nearly every World Cup afterwards for the next decades.
People that say Pakistan should replace so and so player with another player take note..hick ramps, Thorpe , Hussain were some of the best English players but they still lost to low ranked Zimbabwe and new Zealand in 1998. Were it not for the weather their record world be even worse.

Some say replace captain Babar. In Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain you have two of the finest cricketing brains. Plus Alec Stewart. It didn’t matter England still got beat by everybody. Until about 2001 when they started winning tests against Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

Point: replacement of captain doesn’t always mean you will get different results. England had a pretty awful outing against south Africa in 2002 when Vaughn took over from Nasser.

England in the 90’s had a very good domestic structure, the envy of the world where others would come and ply their trade. Even Tendulkar. Yet with a population of 60m still couldn’t find an eleven that could beat anybody consistently. Lord Mclaurin changed a thing or two by 2000.

Point: the strength of the domestic structure is no guarantee to producing good results. People criticise Pakistan’s set up take heed.

English cricket is one of the richest and they had money to invest anywhere but despite this by about 2000 they were ranked right at the bottom.

What England did do differently was improvements in all the above but take responsibility and accountability and improve the whole cricketing infrastructure. It was a riot and branch reform of the national team. But it was gradual, probably over 15 years or so. Every change of personnel improved a little more on the person before. Duncan fletcher was an absolute revelation in how he spotted and nurtured a nucleus of players who with a few years beat the mighty Aussies. He brought in central contracts to protect his players.

But even the ashes beating team of 2005 lost to Pakistan and then to Australia in 2006. Back to square one? Not really.

Point: call a fluke a fluke. Don’t let your star players step on cricket balls and never stop improving. Improvements are incremental not overnight.

By 2007 England again was in the doldrums with Duncan fletcher leaving and new coaches taking over. There were losses like against west indies and later Pakistan in 2011 but they learnt quick.

Investing in youth helped as well as playing overseas. The English lions have been the great achievement of English cricket as well the ability to never pay too much attention to superficial results. Time and time again you have seen England lose matches even to Afghanistan but never does it seem that they are back in the dark days. Even now it seems they will get another 11 players and beat the best.

Somebody needs to shake up Pakistan cricket. If I hear cornered tigers again I think I’ll scream. Pakistan cricket needs a complete overhaul. Even if we beat South Africa and progress in the World Cup beware of superficial improvements. This system is rotten it needs fixing.
 
It's a comparison between a well-established cricket system that prioritizes player value but at the other end its a political influenced system where everyone comes to earn money for themselves and for their superiors.
 
Not sure England is now a good Board to compare with given how the team capitulated.
 
I would gladly be in England's position right now over Pakistan. At least they have the mindset to improve for the next edition; Pakistan would be lucky to be at the same level by 2027 when it's more likely they'll regress
 
SKY cricket shares the analysis of the former players. They give some lame excuses for the failure in the world cup.
 
I know the fans are hurting from the recent performances in the World Cup. The great thing about falling down is you can’t possibly sink any lower. The question simply is this, is Pakistan cricket currently the worst it can be. I’m not saying that the team is the worst by any means, a few fluke performances may still delude us into thinking we are a string team but certainly we are in the doldrums like England were in the 1990’s. There are some lessons to learn though.

In 1992 a tournament I watched every match of, England were simply unbeatable. So dominant were they that the final was deemed a mere formality but Pakistan being the fluke that they are pulled the rug from beneath them. For all the aging stars that England possessed, Pakistan matched in equal number except we prepared better for the future with a few key players. Aqib, inzi, Mushtaq I think were all on debut.

1996 was not awful for Pak and 1999 was the highlight where we competed with the top teams of South Africa and Australia in both tests and odis but England in the 1990’s were as bad as we are now.

What did England do and what lessons are there for Pakistan?

There were a few good players after 1993- atherton, Alec Stewart and Graeme Thorpe in the batting. Gough and caddick in the bowling. But a few others just didn’t come good however hard they tried. (Hick, Salisbury and ramprakash)

Point: A few good players doesn’t a good team make. England had early exits in nearly every World Cup afterwards for the next decades.
People that say Pakistan should replace so and so player with another player take note..hick ramps, Thorpe , Hussain were some of the best English players but they still lost to low ranked Zimbabwe and new Zealand in 1998. Were it not for the weather their record world be even worse.

Some say replace captain Babar. In Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain you have two of the finest cricketing brains. Plus Alec Stewart. It didn’t matter England still got beat by everybody. Until about 2001 when they started winning tests against Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

Point: replacement of captain doesn’t always mean you will get different results. England had a pretty awful outing against south Africa in 2002 when Vaughn took over from Nasser.

England in the 90’s had a very good domestic structure, the envy of the world where others would come and ply their trade. Even Tendulkar. Yet with a population of 60m still couldn’t find an eleven that could beat anybody consistently. Lord Mclaurin changed a thing or two by 2000.

Point: the strength of the domestic structure is no guarantee to producing good results. People criticise Pakistan’s set up take heed.

English cricket is one of the richest and they had money to invest anywhere but despite this by about 2000 they were ranked right at the bottom.

What England did do differently was improvements in all the above but take responsibility and accountability and improve the whole cricketing infrastructure. It was a riot and branch reform of the national team. But it was gradual, probably over 15 years or so. Every change of personnel improved a little more on the person before. Duncan fletcher was an absolute revelation in how he spotted and nurtured a nucleus of players who with a few years beat the mighty Aussies. He brought in central contracts to protect his players.

But even the ashes beating team of 2005 lost to Pakistan and then to Australia in 2006. Back to square one? Not really.

Point: call a fluke a fluke. Don’t let your star players step on cricket balls and never stop improving. Improvements are incremental not overnight.

By 2007 England again was in the doldrums with Duncan fletcher leaving and new coaches taking over. There were losses like against west indies and later Pakistan in 2011 but they learnt quick.

Investing in youth helped as well as playing overseas. The English lions have been the great achievement of English cricket as well the ability to never pay too much attention to superficial results. Time and time again you have seen England lose matches even to Afghanistan but never does it seem that they are back in the dark days. Even now it seems they will get another 11 players and beat the best.

Somebody needs to shake up Pakistan cricket. If I hear cornered tigers again I think I’ll scream. Pakistan cricket needs a complete overhaul. Even if we beat South Africa and progress in the World Cup beware of superficial improvements. This system is rotten it needs fixing.
PK cricket is in the hands of the mafia. Do you think the fight between Sethi and Zaka was anything to do with cricket or more like a battle between 2 dons( NS and AZ) flexing their muscle
 
Pakistan has been in transition for 10+ years.

ECB cut the bs, dumped out all the has beens after the 2015 WC embarrassment, were clear on their LOI philosophies and all the selectors, coaches and captains were on the same page regarding their aggressive approach, and then they dominated LOIs for the next few years.

Any player that didn’t fit their clear cut take on limited overs cricket was let go of. Doesn’t matter how revered he was in the eyes of the public. When it was time to go, it was time to go.

Now they will dump out the has beens again and rinse and repeat.

Pakistan are still struggling to find out how any format that’s not t20 actually works.

Once t20 was introduced in 2007, it killed a lot of Pakistan players’ and administrators’ braincells.. even someone with 0 FC and 0 List A exp can find his way into the test and ODI team…
 
There was an interesting interview with Rob Key on YouTube.

Worth a watch to see their mindset and the involvement of their chairman in day to day operations. Quite honest about their mistakes and ruthless about moving players on.

England were miserable this WC but they can often lose the plot especially away from home. It will be interesting to see how they respond to this and that will also give an insight as to how they respond when Bazball inevitably encounters some turbulence.
 
There was an interesting interview with Rob Key on YouTube.

Worth a watch to see their mindset and the involvement of their chairman in day to day operations. Quite honest about their mistakes and ruthless about moving players on.

England were miserable this WC but they can often lose the plot especially away from home. It will be interesting to see how they respond to this and that will also give an insight as to how they respond when Bazball inevitably encounters some turbulence.

Then there is also discussion between Athers, Nasser, Morgan, Ian ward which has some interesting points along with some excuses.
 
Then there is also discussion between Athers, Nasser, Morgan, Ian ward which has some interesting points along with some excuses.
They just don't want to admit india outplayed them .Atherton is so full of crap that he says England plays more test matches than everyone, so it's difficult to compete in multi formats.Even ind plays more test matches now so does Aus .They just can't bear any one outplaying them other than aus.
 
They just don't want to admit india outplayed them .Atherton is so full of crap that he says England plays more test matches than everyone, so it's difficult to compete in multi formats.Even ind plays more test matches now so does Aus .They just can't bear any one outplaying them other than aus.
Yea it is weird when Australia played a lot of Tests too. They have to admit they played poorly. Atleast batsmen were not able to adapt things like that. instead of they giving all sorts of excuses. Buttler is not even a Test batsman. WHy did he fail?

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Yea it is weird when Australia played a lot of Tests too. They have to admit they played poorly. Atleast batsmen were not able to adapt things like that. instead of they giving all sorts of excuses. Buttler is not even a Test batsman. WHy did he fail?

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Even all their test batting is about bazball on flat tracks.whats so different than limited format.They expected flat tracks and small boundaries to outscore every one and hide their abysmal bowling attack.I think Icc should atleast think about blalanced pitches in wc all the time.
 
Even all their test batting is about bazball on flat tracks.whats so different than limited format.They expected flat tracks and small boundaries to outscore every one and hide their abysmal bowling attack.I think Icc should atleast think about blalanced pitches in wc all the time.
They got bowled out for 165 at Bengaluru that too by Srilanka. There is no excuse.
 
It's a comparison between a well-established cricket system that prioritizes player value but at the other end its a political influenced system where everyone comes to earn money for themselves and for their superiors.
True but let’s be fair. The English cricketing structure with counties and international tours took well over a hundred years in the making. But every decade has seen gradual improvements It’s not perfect by any means as the recent World Cup shows. I suppose we should also be patient with Pakistan. There is so much to do and almost every facet needs an overhaul especially the development of the junior teams.

The comparison with England that is really valid is this. England have been abysmal but will pick a new 11 that will be world beating soon. Pak will rotate the same 11 over and over again. It’s this failure to bring in and develop new players that’s really hurting Pak cricket. Wins come and go but the lack of development is killing our cricket.
 
Playing too many T20 players without a solid strategy and relying on average all-rounders cost England this World Cup. Additionally, their out-of-form captain, Buttler, played a crucial role in England's losses, as he is one of the reliable batsmen in their lineup. When he clicks, he ensures he makes impactful runs. But he failed miserably in almost all the matches
 
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