England cricket team hire BASEBALL coach in attempt to smash Pakistan out of the park in ODI series

[imshally81]

Julian Wood, who has spent the last four years with Major League Baseball side Texas Rangers, will be advising for the upcoming one-dayers

England are turning to baseball in a bid to hit their rivals out of the park in limited-overs cricket.

Several members of the team Eoin Morgan will lead on to the field in Wednesday’s series opening one-day international against Pakistan in Abu Dhabi have worked with hitting coach Julian Wood, who has spent the last four years developing techniques with Major League side Texas Rangers.

Former Hampshire all-rounder Wood forged a relationship with former Rangers hitting coach Scott Coolbaugh and has drafted some of the thinking behind baseball’s slugging power into cricket.

Earlier this year, he was drafted in to give the England Lions’ batsmen tips ahead of their five-match series against South Africa A.

The result was that a side including Jason Roy, Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes, Sam Billings, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid and James Vince twice smashed scores in excess of 375 while the full team lurched towards World Cup embarrassment.

Those players have since graduated to the full team and transferred that kind of aggression into series against New Zealand and Australia last summer.

This week, Wood – also employed by English 50-over champions Gloucestershire on a part-time basis – has been drilling the latest Lions players in how to clear the boundary during sessions at the National Performance Centre in Loughborough.

“Part of our job is to offer options to players and they make decisions about whether they want to adopt things,” said Andy Flower, the ECB’s director of elite coaching.

“This is a little exposure to a guy who has played a bit of cricket but also studied baseball hitting, and it’s nice to bring in a different take on hitting the ball, with the emphasis on T20 cricket and some of the power game associated with 50-over cricket.

“We all recognise the importance of the option to hit the ball hard and this is quite a fun, exciting and different way of addressing this subject.

“Julian has worked with us before, done a really good job and so we are taking him out to the UAE.

“The results we had out in South Africa were outstanding – to beat the South Africans in their own backyard took some great cricket and to see how Jason Roy was at the start of last winter and how he grew was really nice.”

Wood encourages batsmen to get lower in their stance, to create a similar standing position to that of a baseball hitter, encourages individuals to lift their bats higher and tries to increase hand speed in striking the ball.

England’s tactical revamp after limping out of the World Cup in the group stages in March has been devastating.

During that tournament they hit just 18 sixes in six matches, in contrast to clearing the rope an astonishing 44 times in just five outings, passing 400 in an innings for the first time in the process, against World Cup runners-up New Zealand.

England begin their preparation for five one-day internationals and a trio of Twenty20 fixtures against Pakistan with a 50-over contest against Hong Kong in Abu Dhabi on Sunday.

Read full article : http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-cricket-team-hire-baseball-6788611

 

[MenInG]

Not sure if this will work!

 

[Watsupdoc]

Should be interesting to see if this will work. The dynamics in cricket and baseball a little different though.

 

[axl100mph]

Lol n we bring in stability khan.
Just shows our intelligence, or rather the complete lack of it n the mentality

 

[Sam1]

Worth remembering this guy was a professional cricketer so it's not like they're drafting in some random baseball coach who has no clue about anything other than baseball techniques.

 

[Sherlock]

Well fielding has vastly improved because of innovative and technical aspects taken from baseball. This could be a excellent addition. I remember Australia were the first to hire a baseball coach a few years back.

 

[Bullet Drive]

They got the wrong Julien. Shoulda got Fountain.

 

[Pak Warrior]

Waste of money, England was gonna win against us anyway

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

They got the wrong Julien. Shoulda got Fountain.

yeah thats what i was thinking, former baseball player, pretty sure he worked on range hitting with some of our players

 

[axl100mph]

yeah thats what i was thinking, former baseball player, pretty sure he worked on range hitting with some of our players

Fawad alam n asshfiqqque r a testament to it

 

[theariezman]

Lets hire a gulli danda coach for team Pakistan [emoji57]

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[On_the_up]

Unless they expect Pakistan to be bowling swinging waist high full tosses, can't see the logic here.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Some strange tactics, let's see how it will work.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Lets hire a gulli danda coach for team Pakistan [emoji57]

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

We already have Shezzi,

 

[Major]

) Is this because of what happened at Abu Dhabi?

 

[Major]

In all seriousness, i like how ECB is always willing to bring improvement into Cricket with using different techniques, they show soo much initiative.

This is something where Pakistan really lacks behind. I remember how before the CHampions trophy we contracted Trent Woodhill(is this the right name?) for batting advice. Every jealous ex cricketer had a go at him on Media and every retarded so called cricket fan critisized him

 

[Thivagar]

England was viewed as too traditional, so they went all out on being "modern". Hitting is all strong wrist, forearm, legs and hips. I don't know what else is there to learn for hitting big. Nothing much to gain and but there is lot to lose. English players may start messing with their techniques.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Should have hired shahid afridi instead.

 

[Robert]

Well fielding has vastly improved because of innovative and technical aspects taken from baseball. This could be a excellent addition. I remember Australia were the first to hire a baseball coach a few years back.

IIRC England got baseball throwing and fielding coaches in about 1990. The sliding stop near the boundary comes from MLB (though I remember Derek Randall doing it in the 1983 WC).

 

[Suleiman]

Should have hired shahid afridi instead.

)

Why not just play the same type of cricket they played vs NZ, why do they need a baseball coach's help? What is he gonna do?

If Mahela couldn't help them play vs spin what is Derek Jeter going to do here..?

 

[Sherlock]

IIRC England got baseball throwing and fielding coaches in about 1990. The sliding stop near the boundary comes from MLB (though I remember Derek Randall doing it in the 1983 WC).

Okay, didn't know that. But my point more so was how the fielding and the boundary-lop-and-catch technique has come about too.

My recollection about Australia was how they got a baseball coach to teach them a better technique in hitting the stumps and throwing the ball accurately too.

Tbh they've been the innovators for years now so that was the main point.

 

[Enigma_]

A bit off-topic but I actually think would make a ripper of a baseball striker.

 

[HuzaifaE]

Lol n we bring in stability khan.
Just shows our intelligence, or rather the complete lack of it n the mentality

And hiring a baseball coach is somehow obviously a masterstroke. Bringing back Younus is daft but on what basis are you supposing that England have made a good decision here?

 

[axl100mph]

And hiring a baseball coach is somehow obviously a masterstroke. Bringing back Younus is daft but on what basis are you supposing that England have made a good decision here?

Whether it works out or not, atleast they are trying to innovate and adapt to tge modern game while we r taking a step back to once again employ the safety first approach

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[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Whether it works out or not, atleast they are trying to innovate and adapt to tge modern game while we r taking a step back to once again employ the safety first approach

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Are they expecting full tosses from pakistani bowlers? Otherwise there is no point in hiring a baseball coach.

 

[axl100mph]

Are they expecting full tosses from pakistani bowlers? Otherwise there is no point in hiring a baseball coach.

It actually helps.
Guys like watson, maxwell hv greatly benefited from some of the tricks.

U dont hv to be literal about this. Just a few tweaks are added to a batsman's repertoire n it is up to him to gage what he feels can benefit him in executing better.
The baseball coach is only going to work on how to better engage the core and n increase bat speed when hitting out.


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[dhump]

Pakistan should hire football coach for stopping the ball and rugby coach for passing the ball and an athlete to teach running between wickets....may be a coach of "Kancha" and "Pithoo Garam" for throwing..

Waste of time and money from English cricket as usual.


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[AmirFutureWasim]

and folks this is where modern day cricket is heading.

On the other hand I present to you our mighty top 4: :ahmed

This will end well.

 

[IndianWillow]

Cricket is becoming closer and closer to baseball anyway.

 

[HuzaifaE]

It actually helps.
Guys like watson, maxwell hv greatly benefited from some of the tricks.

U dont hv to be literal about this. Just a few tweaks are added to a batsman's repertoire n it is up to him to gage what he feels can benefit him in executing better.
The baseball coach is only going to work on how to better engage the core and n increase bat speed when hitting out.


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Lets get an Olympic athletics champion to teach the fielders and the keepers - do you know how ridiculous that sounds? I'd rather take a step backwards then such a gimmicky so called "modern adaptation"...

Cricket players know how to hit cricket balls for sixes. Batting coaches that have used cricket bats can teach improvised stroke making in regards to keeping balance, hiring baseball coaches seems completely unnecessary. It's hilarious to consider applauding such a move

 

[axl100mph]

Lets get an Olympic athletics champion to teach the fielders and the keepers - do you know how ridiculous that sounds? I'd rather take a step backwards then such a gimmicky so called "modern adaptation"...

Cricket players know how to hit cricket balls for sixes. Batting coaches that have used cricket bats can teach improvised stroke making in regards to keeping balance, hiring baseball coaches seems completely unnecessary. It's hilarious to consider applauding such a move

Lol at ur reductionist view.
Their techniques hv already been established. Its not as if they r foregoing their basic batting technique by replacing it wittg baseball methods.

Its only a small tweak as I mentioned before in my earlier post. Not everyone might find it suitable to incorporate in their game. For example somebody like kohli, who is very wristy might not be convinced while a guy like shehzad who struggles to engage the core when hitting n only goes at the ball with his hands might benefit
The more knowledge you have the better placed u r todeal with a variety of situations

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[axl100mph]

Lets get an Olympic athletics champion to teach the fielders and the keepers - do you know how ridiculous that sounds? I'd rather take a step backwards then such a gimmicky so called "modern adaptation"...

Cricket players know how to hit cricket balls for sixes. Batting coaches that have used cricket bats can teach improvised stroke making in regards to keeping balance, hiring baseball coaches seems completely unnecessary. It's hilarious to consider applauding such a move

And yeah, julien fountain who is hailed as a great fielding coach isnt a cricket coach by the way.

As I said before, regardless of it working or not, but it does establish that the ecb wants to be upwardly mobile n experiment its way to the top.

Meanwhile, we resort to go back to the 90's style strategy after there was a semblence of modernity creeping into our batting approach in the sri lanka series.
Pathetic!

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[Joga Bonito]

LOL!! These guys and their advisors.....I'm dead

 

[Couch Cricketer]

These guys started hitting so many sixes in the NZ series after working with him when they were in the Eng A team. Now they bringing him into the Eng Odi side he is going to make a difference.
I hope England bat first in the first match so that Pakistan realize what the par score is otherwise I expect Pakistan to be happy with 240-50 and then getting clobbered in 40 overs or so.

Sent from my SM-G925I

 

[CricketAnalyst]

England was viewed as too traditional, so they went all out on being "modern". Hitting is all strong wrist, forearm, legs and hips. I don't know what else is there to learn for hitting big. Nothing much to gain and but there is lot to lose. English players may start messing with their techniques.

Hitting big is an entire art and science. Baseball is a sport where they study from the perspective that if you are out it doesn't matter at all, but if you get one home run, you are the hero. In baseball they used to have opposite problem to cricket coaches screaming at batsmen anytime they played a big shot and it didn't work; in baseball they used to keep insisting the batsmen keep hacking away instead of taking walks or going for singles and doubles. It's a reversal of risk reward but it brings valuable insight, because body mechanics can be adapted to risk/reward.

Something which is a good technique for scoring 150 (300) won't be a good technique when you need to score 50 (30) and vice versa.

 

[Pakcricket89]

A bit off-topic but I actually think would make a ripper of a baseball striker.

Razzq would be better

 

[LastManstanding]

Pakistan should hire football coach for stopping the ball and rugby coach for passing the ball and an athlete to teach running between wickets....may be a coach of "Kancha" and "Pithoo Garam" for throwing..

Waste of time and money from English cricket as usual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You made me nostalgic. Good old days

 

[theariezman]

We already have Shezzi,

na karoo yaar
I don't think so he has ever played gulli danda.

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[Sam1]

Lets get an Olympic athletics champion to teach the fielders and the keepers - do you know how ridiculous that sounds? I'd rather take a step backwards then such a gimmicky so called "modern adaptation"...

Cricket players know how to hit cricket balls for sixes. Batting coaches that have used cricket bats can teach improvised stroke making in regards to keeping balance, hiring baseball coaches seems completely unnecessary. It's hilarious to consider applauding such a move

You do realise the guy is a retired county cricketer... It's not like he has no clue about cricket. But after all, he didn't seem to help all those guys who debuted against New Zealand this summer so he most be useless .

 

[Thivagar]

Hitting big is an entire art and science. Baseball is a sport where they study from the perspective that if you are out it doesn't matter at all, but if you get one home run, you are the hero. In baseball they used to have opposite problem to cricket coaches screaming at batsmen anytime they played a big shot and it didn't work; in baseball they used to keep insisting the batsmen keep hacking away instead of taking walks or going for singles and doubles. It's a reversal of risk reward but it brings valuable insight, because body mechanics can be adapted to risk/reward.

Something which is a good technique for scoring 150 (300) won't be a good technique when you need to score 50 (30) and vice versa.

Depends on players. There are power hitters and contact hitters. Power hitters are advised to do what they are good at and same goes to contact hitters. There are also situations where batters are more likely to do what is suitable. If you are a contact hitter with 2 outs, no one cares if you got for a big hit. At the same time, if you are a power hitter with 2 outs and a runner on second base and first, you are adviced to not just resort just to power hitting.

 

[WC-Passion]

I thought this was satire for a second

 

[Markhor]

Haha how silly, this'll never work...

Oh wait.

Mock England all we like for trying these innovations, we're in no position to criticise. Look at the results. If only PCB thought outside the box and considered using some initiative, especially with our lack of big hitting ability.

 

[Major]

he has already bought results....

and ere we have Pakistan whos no coach has been able to do bring any results in one day format

 

[Betterpolo]

Core batting technique, in terms of the initial stance (bat on the ground vs bat raised) changed quite a long time ago. What I've seen change more recently in my lad's coaching is a different approach to innings-end slogging. Before there was a lot of movement and change of body shape, now they are encouraged to stay far stiller and keep a firm base from waist down, with the movement and power all coming from the shoulders and arms. Guess this may be a baseball influence but I don't see baseball influencing the way someone bats for 4 sessions in a Test match so much.

 

[axl100mph]

[MENTION=139716]HuzaifaE[/MENTION]
Talk nah

 

[HuzaifaE]

[MENTION=139716]HuzaifaE[/MENTION]
Talk nah

Fair enough, certainly doesn't seem like a bad decision in hindsight, you win this battle for now.

 

[axl100mph]

Fair enough, certainly doesn't seem like a bad decision in hindsight, you win this battle for now.

That's how a man takes it. Good on you

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[Suleiman]

LOL can't believe it panned out like the title says.. Buttler literally smashed us out of the park..

Hmm... it's almost as if the author knew exactly what would happen.. does he think we're all stupid?

 

[Major]

WOw, ever since this guy was hired, the team has been incredible .

 

[Suleiman]

WOw, ever since this guy was hired, the team has been incredible .

Actually you could see glimpses in their series vs NZ in the series prior, where they were nearly matching NZ with the bat every time, they brought up their first ever 400+ vs them.

Maybe the guy has helped a bit who knows.

 

[Mamoon]

England is the best Test team in the world at the moment and looks to be on their way to becoming the most dangerous unit in Limited Overs as well.

Signs are already there. They were one good over away from winning the World T20 and the fact that the next two ICC tournaments are in England is going to help them as well.

2015-2019 looks set to be England's golden era.

They have come a long way from the 2013/2014 Ashes drubbing and 2015 World Cup debacle.

All credit goes to ECB for steering the team through their crisis period very successfully and for remaining steadfast in their decisions in spite of public pressure, such as ignoring Pietersen etc.

PCB needs to take a leaf out of their book.

 

[MRSN]

It actually helps.
Guys like watson, maxwell hv greatly benefited from some of the tricks.

U dont hv to be literal about this. Just a few tweaks are added to a batsman's repertoire n it is up to him to gage what he feels can benefit him in executing better.
The baseball coach is only going to work on how to better engage the core and n increase bat speed when hitting out.


Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

bhai jan this ship has long sailed. Nightmares awaits us in England and then Australia just like we saw them during SA series. This house we built on the flat roads of Dubai and Sharjah is going to crash to the ground soon on our away tours so will be the legacy of some of our legendary players.

 

[MRSN]

England is the best Test team in the world at the moment and looks to be on their way to becoming the most dangerous unit in Limited Overs as well.

Signs are already there. They were one good over away from winning the World T20 and the fact that the next two ICC tournaments are in England is going to help them as well.

2015-2019 looks set to be England's golden era.

They have come a long way from the 2013/2014 Ashes drubbing and 2015 World Cup debacle.

All credit goes to ECB for steering the team through their crisis period very successfully and for remaining steadfast in their decisions in spite of public pressure, such as ignoring Pietersen etc.

PCB needs to take a leaf out of their book.

Disagree..SA is the best test team by some margin. They have better players of spin and they have a quality spinner. If you remove Anderson from English team then they really struggle to take ten wickets as well. they are good at home though..very good.

 

[Hawkeye]

England is the best Test team in the world at the moment

Nope. Got whitewashed earlier and then comprehensively beaten in 2015 again by the current best Test team in the world, Pakistan.

England has to beat us in the UAE to claim the throne . Or white wash us twice in England.

 

[Hasan123]

England is the best Test team in the world at the moment and looks to be on their way to becoming the most dangerous unit in Limited Overs as well.

Signs are already there. They were one good over away from winning the World T20 and the fact that the next two ICC tournaments are in England is going to help them as well.

2015-2019 looks set to be England's golden era.

They have come a long way from the 2013/2014 Ashes drubbing and 2015 World Cup debacle.

All credit goes to ECB for steering the team through their crisis period very successfully and for remaining steadfast in their decisions in spite of public pressure, such as ignoring Pietersen etc.

PCB needs to take a leaf out of their book.

All ECB is done is drop kp and hire a specialist LOI coach and selected the right players for odis. These players were available before the world cup yet a majority of them weren't selected. Also there current test line up will still struggle in subcontinent. In odis they will do well but in tests they look a little vulnerable to me. If they can beat Australia in Australia your claim of them being the best test side could have some weight.

 

[HitWicket]

Disagree..SA is the best test team by some margin. They have better players of spin and they have a quality spinner. If you remove Anderson from English team then they really struggle to take ten wickets as well. they are good at home though..very good.

Last time Anderson got taken out the team all 10 wickets were taken for 60 runs....

And I'm fairly sure they just beat your best test team away from home as well.

 

[Major]

Bump.

we all laughed at the idea, and now look at England. All the great. World Cup winners.

Nothing can stop this team

This power hitting coaching really changed this team

 

[Mamoon]

England is the best Test team in the world at the moment and looks to be on their way to becoming the most dangerous unit in Limited Overs as well.

Signs are already there. They were one good over away from winning the World T20 and the fact that the next two ICC tournaments are in England is going to help them as well.

2015-2019 looks set to be England's golden era.

They have come a long way from the 2013/2014 Ashes drubbing and 2015 World Cup debacle.

All credit goes to ECB for steering the team through their crisis period very successfully and for remaining steadfast in their decisions in spite of public pressure, such as ignoring Pietersen etc.

PCB needs to take a leaf out of their book.

Kohli’s India have been terrific in Test cricket over the last 3-4 year period, but this certainly has proved to be a golden era for England cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

Bump.

we all laughed at the idea, and now look at England. All the great. World Cup winners.

Nothing can stop this team

This power hitting coaching really changed this team

It was more team selection than coaching. The likes of Buttler, Bairstow, Roy, Morgan, Stokes etc. were all big hitters long before this baseball coach was involved.

England decided to stack their lineup with all these hitters and have only one anchor (Root) who has been a brilliant ODI player over the years and is the glue that holds everything together.

However, England’s template is not easy to follow. No team in the world at the moment has so much talent in terms of power-hitting.

The likes of Hales cannot even get into this team at the moment while the likes of Banton and Billings are finding it hard to break through. Even Vince is a very destructive hitter.

Most of these reserve batsmen would easily walk into most teams.

 

[Major]

It was more team selection than coaching. The likes of Buttler, Bairstow, Roy, Morgan, Stokes etc. were all big hitters long before this baseball coach was involved.

England decided to stack their lineup with all these hitters and have only one anchor (Root) who has been a brilliant ODI player over the years and is the glue that holds everything together.

However, England’s template is not easy to follow. No team in the world at the moment has so much talent in terms of power-hitting.

The likes of Hales cannot even get into this team at the moment while the likes of Banton and Billings are finding it hard to break through. Even Vince is a very destructive hitter.

Most of these reserve batsmen would easily walk into most teams.

but they changed there stance where they bring the bat from the shoulders, and i used to believe that they got better hitting due to that. In Pakistani clubs they frown upon this.

do you think its because of their domestic structure where they have more teams more players that allows many to come forward?

 

[Mamoon]

but they changed there stance where they bring the bat from the shoulders, and i used to believe that they got better hitting due to that. In Pakistani clubs they frown upon this.

do you think its because of their domestic structure where they have more teams more players that allows many to come forward?

More than number of teams, it is superior coaching, facilities, mentality and cricket culture.

Pakistan’s cricket culture is rotten to the core. Vast majority of our players, ex-players, fans, analysts etc. have zero understanding of the game.

They will keep talking the same bakwaas of talent and unpredictability nonsense.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan seriously need to look at the way overhauled their limited overs mindset, coaching, the players because England were struggling badly in this format in 2015 and look at how they have turned it around.

Even Ramiz Raja has been calling for the PCB to follow the ECBs template and to start off with by employing a powerhitting. When the opposition hits six more sixes than you, that is a difference of almost 36 runs which you cannot cover with singles and doubles that easily

 

[Giannis]

You don't need a baseball coach to teach you powerhitting, there are plenty of natural powerhitters - it all comes down to selection.

 

[Kaddy]

You don't need a baseball coach to teach you powerhitting, there are plenty of natural powerhitters - it all comes down to selection.

Can you please share names of those power hitters.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I have an entirely different viewpoint on the whole Pakistan debate.

I think all Pakistan needs is a good captain - someone who is his own man, has a winning mindset and has performances to back him up.

Pakistan has never flourished in systems and processes and what not. That is for England, India and Australia.

It is, and will always, remain a mercurial team. It will always beat the top teams when on, and will always lose to bottom teams when off and it will happen all the time. Even under Imran, Kardar and Mushtaq.

But with a 'great' captain, it can stay in top 4 in all formats for a long time with enough wins.

The likes of Misbah are the antithesis of what Pakistan should be.

 

[shamaan]

Can you please share names of those power hitters.

Depends how u class power hitting.

 

[Savak]

I have an entirely different viewpoint on the whole Pakistan debate.

I think all Pakistan needs is a good captain - someone who is his own man, has a winning mindset and has performances to back him up.

Pakistan has never flourished in systems and processes and what not. That is for England, India and Australia.

It is, and will always, remain a mercurial team. It will always beat the top teams when on, and will always lose to bottom teams when off and it will happen all the time. Even under Imran, Kardar and Mushtaq.

But with a 'great' captain, it can stay in top 4 in all formats for a long time with enough wins.

The likes of Misbah are the antithesis of what Pakistan should be.

Cricket has changed now and the reason why the Big 4 have progressed is because of their investment in processes, systems, technology and science whereas our players are falling behind because they are still stuck in the 80's and 90's, Your ability only gets you so far and can be nullified when the opposition does video analysis and strategizes against you for e.g. Rohit Sharma adjusting his batting stance to counter Amir's inswinger knowing he doesn't have a potent outswinger, batsmen playing Yasir Shah with a straight bat and not going across the line knowing he is a wicket to wicket leggie who doesn't spin the ball away a great deal, batsmen playing Abbass with a straight bat with the new and old ball, not playing against him across the line and even coming outside the crease to disturb his line/length.

Unless our players think more about their games, work hard on adapting to what the opposition is doing and not blindly relying on their own natural ability, skills, they will forever languish at the bottom of the rankings.

 

[leg-side-flick]

I have an entirely different viewpoint on the whole Pakistan debate.

I think all Pakistan needs is a good captain - someone who is his own man, has a winning mindset and has performances to back him up.

Pakistan has never flourished in systems and processes and what not. That is for England, India and Australia.

It is, and will always, remain a mercurial team. It will always beat the top teams when on, and will always lose to bottom teams when off and it will happen all the time. Even under Imran, Kardar and Mushtaq.

But with a 'great' captain, it can stay in top 4 in all formats for a long time with enough wins.

The likes of Misbah are the antithesis of what Pakistan should be.

Pak won in 80's and 90's on the back of great fast bowling, a lot of that was due to reverse swing.

You would see Imran / Wasim / Waqar / Shoaib all running through sides once the ball got old, the W's would compete against each other for old ball spoils. Even now if you hear their interviews, you will see how they used to look forward to that.

Shoaib routinely says, Eden Gardens mai "ball acha bana tha"

This swing is no longer there, A naseem shah / Shaheen etc could have ripped through sides as well with it but it's not available.

The batting was never great, it was Okayish, with 1/2 great players, even now you have Babar Azam, but other countries have gone far ahead.

The fielding is far better now..

Pak captains were also no great tactical geniuses, right from Imran, it was more about man management. The tactical things were frankly not required as well, why bother about it, if you have Wasim Akram reverse swinging. He will get the job done.


All that is missing now and hence Pak is losing.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Cricket has changed now and the reason why the Big 4 have progressed is because of their investment in processes, systems, technology and science whereas our players are falling behind because they are still stuck in the 80's and 90's, Your ability only gets you so far and can be nullified when the opposition does video analysis and strategizes against you for e.g. Rohit Sharma adjusting his batting stance to counter Amir's inswinger knowing he doesn't have a potent outswinger, batsmen playing Yasir Shah with a straight bat and not going across the line knowing he is a wicket to wicket leggie who doesn't spin the ball away a great deal, batsmen playing Abbass with a straight bat with the new and old ball, not playing against him across the line and even coming outside the crease to disturb his line/length.

Unless our players think more about their games, work hard on adapting to what the opposition is doing and not blindly relying on their own natural ability, skills, they will forever languish at the bottom of the rankings.

I'd argue batsmen and bowlers have been doing technical adjustments since cricket began - changing grips, stances, trigger movements. Nothing to do with technology and processes - although they are great tools to help.

I'd argue the likes of Amir, Yasir and Abbas are just as good as their figures tell us - and no better. No amount of technology and process will change them into something else.

Pakistan has fallen behind because grass roots cricket has deteriorated - corruption, no school cricket, grounds turned into buildings etc. That kind of investment in grass roots is absolutely needed.

But even so, the unique Pakistani character, due to a patriarchal society and mindset - of having an inspirational figure lead them to big things isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Pak won in 80's and 90's on the back of great fast bowling, a lot of that was due to reverse swing.

You would see Imran / Wasim / Waqar / Shoaib all running through sides once the ball got old, the W's would compete against each other for old ball spoils. Even now if you hear their interviews, you will see how they used to look forward to that.

Shoaib routinely says, Eden Gardens mai "ball acha bana tha"

This swing is no longer there, A naseem shah / Shaheen etc could have ripped through sides as well with it but it's not available.

The batting was never great, it was Okayish, with 1/2 great players, even now you have Babar Azam, but other countries have gone far ahead.

The fielding is far better now..

Pak captains were also no great tactical geniuses, right from Imran, it was more about man management. The tactical things were frankly not required as well, why bother about it, if you have Wasim Akram reverse swinging. He will get the job done.


All that is missing now and hence Pak is losing.

I agree.

Having great resources at your disposal is everything.

When Barcelona have Messi and Iniesta, everyone will talk about their great processes and their famed academy. Now that they are floundering and when Messi leaves, all their great academies, systems and tech will be useless.

it is always about the person.

Look at Manchester United. Same systems, same processes, same great technology, most of the same people but Sir Alex is gone and Ronaldo left - and they are no longer who they are despite everything.

Australia and England have personnel. You take Morgan out and put Root in charge of T20 outfit and see how many games they win. Same as a manager in Football.

Captain in cricket is disproportionately powerful. Everything around him is just tools to help his team, not the end in of itself.

So to your point, Pakistan do not have Wasim and Waqar like yesteryears, but if you take out Azhar and put in an Imran in there as Captain, the results will be vastly different. Same team, different result.

We have Azhar and Misbah, they make the team punch far far below its weight.

 

[Hasan123]

I don't know how much this helped. I think England fortunes changed in LO when they started selecting the right players such as Roy,Hales,Rashid,etc. Also allowing Buttler and Stokes to play there natural game. The Morgan and Bayliss combination was very important as well.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

More than number of teams, it is superior coaching, facilities, mentality and cricket culture.

Pakistan’s cricket culture is rotten to the core. Vast majority of our players, ex-players, fans, analysts etc. have zero understanding of the game.

They will keep talking the same bakwaas of talent and unpredictability nonsense.

This is so true. Most pakistani ex-players have zero clue about the modern game and its requirements. Under the current setup, Pakistan would win here and there but in meantime the game would keep advancing and Pakistan would further fall behind. Pakistan under Misbah's captaincy fell behind the game massively and again under his dual role(only country to have such a role) Pakistan would again massively fall behind the game.

 

[leg-side-flick]

So to your point, Pakistan do not have Wasim and Waqar like yesteryears, but if you take out Azhar and put in an Imran in there as Captain, the results will be vastly different. Same team, different result.

We have Azhar and Misbah, they make the team punch far far below its weight.

No, my point actually is Pakistan has set a wrong benchmark for itself. Wasim and Waqar today may not be as effective in today's cricket as they were earlier with reverse swing

I hear ex pak cricketers of 90's trying to reverse fit their brand of cricket in today's world, it only looks good in TV studios. It's not possible now, game has changed.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

No, my point actually is Pakistan has set a wrong benchmark for itself. Wasim and Waqar today may not be as effective in today's cricket as they were earlier with reverse swing

I hear ex pak cricketers of 90's trying to reverse fit their brand of cricket in today's world, it only looks good in TV studios. It's not possible now, game has changed.

OK agree that ex-Pakistan cricketers are trying to retro fit their brand into today's cricket. That's not smart and they do not have the same personnel.

Disagree vehemently that Waqar and Wasim would not have been as effective in today's cricket. Reverse swing is just as tough to face today as it always was, yorkers are just as difficult to play, speed still creates problems for batters and Wasim's bowling intelligence in particular is hard to match. Wasim had tons of variations and Waqar was scarily good at 2 or 3 things but at his peak speed, those 2 or 3 things are more than enough.

 

[leg-side-flick]

Disagree vehemently that Waqar and Wasim would not have been as effective in today's cricket. Reverse swing is just as tough to face today as it always was, yorkers are just as difficult to play, speed still creates problems for batters and Wasim's bowling intelligence in particular is hard to match. Wasim had tons of variations and Waqar was scarily good at 2 or 3 things but at his peak speed, those 2 or 3 things are more than enough.

Reverse swing is tough to play even today, but how many bowlers are doing it. The reason is the ball can't be made up now as there are tons of cameras around. Plus 2 new balls / strict umpires etc etc

Look what happened to Warner n Smith.

Wasim Akram is a ATG, he would do well in any era but the point I was making is, that he would not do as good as 80's / 90's because of lack of reverse swing. He might still be the worlds best bowler though

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Reverse swing is tough to play even today, but how many bowlers are doing it. The reason is the ball can't be made up now as there are tons of cameras around. Plus 2 new balls / strict umpires etc etc

Look what happened to Warner n Smith.

Wasim Akram is a ATG, he would do well in any era but the point I was making is, that he would not do as good as 80's / 90's because of lack of reverse swing. He might still be the worlds best bowler though

Don't know man.

Omer Gul was reverse swinging the ball in the 16th over in T20s despite cameras, umpires etc.

I am sure the W's would have found a way.