England vs New Zealand | 2nd Test | Leeds | May 29-Jun 2, 2015

[CricketAnalyst]

Only one team has ever scored more than 340 to win here in the forth, and that was 70 years ago with the greatest batsman of all time scoring half the runs and being not out at the end.

The point this kind of stat misses is that the "fourth innings" isn't what it was. On certain teams it will have a mental effect more than anything; but the reality is as so many people whine here, the pitches don't deteriorate now and pitches hold up better and are still roads.

This is the only explanation I have for teams hammering the ball to every corner of the park at the tail end of the third innings and the second the fourth innings starts batsmen start behaving like mice.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Absolutely agree, great post....but what has that got to do with this thread?!

It was a response to Junaids; the connection is that this started out from a discussion of whether modern sport is simply qualitatively superior to the way sport was earlier.

 

[Space Cat]

NZ can afford to bat quite a whole here and take the lead to 400 and beyond. The pitch showed a few signs late yesterday that batting 5 sessions might be a very tough ask.

 

[Space Cat]

Couple of great shots by Mark Craig. Definitely not a tailender.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Kiwis should get lead up to 400 or maybe 450 and declare, they should have 5 sessions then to try and take 10 wickets

 

[Space Cat]

NZ cashing in some good runs here before the 2nd new ball.

 

[Space Cat]

Yet enough drop by England.

To be fair that was reasonably difficult chance.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Kiwis should get lead up to 400 or maybe 450 and declare, they should have 5 sessions then to try and take 10 wickets

They need 100 runs in 15 overs and that's what they should be going for, given 400 is close to being safe, so even 50 runs in 8 overs would be perfectly acceptable.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Yet enough drop by England.

To be fair that was reasonably difficult chance.

Going back to my Dilley example, if someone took that catch in 1980, people would have talked about it for a couple of years.

 

[Junaids]

Why did you catch that Joe? For goodness sake, let them bat on and on.

Stop getting them out!

 

[Random Aussie]

The point this kind of stat misses is that the "fourth innings" isn't what it was. On certain teams it will have a mental effect more than anything; but the reality is as so many people whine here, the pitches don't deteriorate now and pitches hold up better and are still roads.

This is the only explanation I have for teams hammering the ball to every corner of the park at the tail end of the third innings and the second the fourth innings starts batsmen start behaving like mice.

Well a record is there to be broken, but it serves as a useful guide on how achievable a target is. You are correct it is mostly mental but Test cricket is mostly a mental game.

 

[Space Cat]

Good catch ends Watlings great innings.

Pitch definitely offering some erratic bounce now.

 

[MarkCooper]

Dear God, our father in heaven. Please send down rain all day. If you do I will donate £10 to my local church.

Thank you.

Your loyal subject

 

[Space Cat]

Ball jumping off a length like that is a sign the pitch has dried out significantly. Should see a few scoot low as well.

 

[Space Cat]

That slip cordon is a legitimate area to score runs. Nobody is going to catch the ball.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Why did you catch that Joe? For goodness sake, let them bat on and on.

Stop getting them out!

I'll take this as an admission that at this specific time NewZealand should be slogging, if not declaring!

 

[James]

Dread to think how many runs this one is going to be lost by. 200 at least I reckon.

 

[Space Cat]

Southee will do what he does best and have a wild swing.

Has 52 test match sixes already which is staggering for a number 9 bat.

 

[DrSchultz]

Unlike the first test, the better team is going to win.

 

[f.b.m]

This is mildly amusing to watch.

 

[Space Cat]

Might want to get Southee out soon. He will start finding the middle of the bat the longer he bats.

 

[Space Cat]

No slips now. Should of done that from the start as they are only decorative

 

[Space Cat]

Moeen on now. Id dare say both batsman will try to hit him out of the park.

 

[Space Cat]

Southee goes for a rapid 40. Matt Henry will bat the same way.

 

[Statsman]

Good cameo by Southee here. NZ should declare now.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Wondering if BMac will declare now, england would have to bat near enough 6 sessions to save the game!

 

[Statsman]

Southee equals Misbah and ABD with 53 sixes in test career. Goes past Afridi.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283122.html

 

[Amjid Javed]

No respect been shown to broad here ))

 

[Markhor]

Said it before and will say it again - England are the second worst team in the world for bowling out tail-enders.

Someone remind them that its not illegal to bowl fast, full and straight at the stumps. England now have been batted out of this game.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Southee equals Misbah and ABD with 53 sixes in test career. Goes past Afridi.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283122.html

wow amazing feat by southee!

 

[Statsman]

Declaration. What a wonderful game of Test Cricket. I reckon England will come close to this target.

 

[Statsman]

wow amazing feat by southee!

yeah, he's been on a six hitting spree for the last 12-18 months.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Broad must be happy that new zealand have declared!

455 off 170 overs... thats a pretty sporting declaration

 

[cricket.mad]

Should have scored another 50..i think england have more than enough time to chase this total..250 runs today with loss of 2-3 wickets will be pretty intresting

 

[Sherlock]

Excellent from NZ and the lower order. Cannot see anything but a NZ win here, but records are there to be broken.

NZ - 70%

ENG - 30%

At the moment, and even that may be too optimistic for England.

 

[Sherlock]

This is why I love Tests more so than any other format. Brilliant Cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Has there ever been a more popular touring team than these 2015 New Zealanders?

We Poms absolutely love the Kiwis at the best of times. We probably feel closer to them than any other nation on earth.

But this team smiles, they are sporting and they are amazing entertainers. It feels a bit like watching Frank Worrell's 1960-61 West Indian tourists to Australia.

I had issues with McCullum's captaincy and batting, but even that has improved.

Now we just need them to be the ultimate good visitors and have the grace to lose from a winning position again!

 

[Junaids]

This is why I love Tests more so than any other format. Brilliant Cricket.

There have always been periods of rapid scoring in Test cricket!

 

[James]

If we bat out the day then we might get rain tomorrow and escape with a draw. Not really deserved though. 1-1 would be a fair reflection of how the series has gone.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Madness.

Kiwis should have batted another 5 overs and taken the lead to 500. Just to crush England's spirits.

Now England still has a sniffer here. They are not completely out of it yet.

 

[Sherlock]

There have always been periods of rapid scoring in Test cricket!

I wasn't referring to the runrate, just the excitement of the on-going chase after a target was set.

 

[JaDed]

If this series would had been 5 match one it would had been just amazing to see the visitors improve and improve.Pathetic planning, 2 teams that like to play tests aren't scheduling a proper series.

 

[Space Cat]

Looked like a bit on offer for Craig there. Will be an interesting day but unfortunately i will have to miss it to sleep.

 

[f.b.m]

Brian Close looks younger now than he did in 1976.

 

[Pantani]

Southee will do what he does best and have a wild swing.

Has 52 test match sixes already which is staggering for a number 9 bat.

Good for him. The likes of Holding, Harbhajan and Steyn have hit more sixes than Sobers ever managed!

 

[Markhor]

British weather could potentially save England here.

 

[godzilla]

excellent lunch time discussion on captain and management of the team in the modern game.

atherton talking about how theres three components equally important - the structure, producing a pool of players, the selectors who pick the best out of that pool and the captain/coach who man manage that best talent.

warne has a different opinion, that a happy dressing room isnt really that important, but what is crucial is that the captain is respected and trusted. he also believes that the captain should be in control of everything - except obvioulsy the managing of under 19 teams, and developing periphery players, since at the end of the day wins and losses go against him.

i guess it depends a lot on the culture of the country. the aussie culture of speaking your mind, and aggresive debate being almost a sign of respect works for warnes model. not sure that would translate to england or pakistan for example. pakistan it definitely wouldnt - all that power in one persons hands takes it away from all the vampires who drink from the fountain of pakistani cricket blood.

 

[Enforcer]

If this series would had been 5 match one it would had been just amazing to see the visitors improve and improve.Pathetic planning, 2 teams that like to play tests aren't scheduling a proper series.

spot on. There is no point in playing a 5 test match series against a hapless indian side, and just playing two tests against a buoyant newzealand side.

 

[MarkCooper]

Lovely rain. Come down and let my flowers drink in your wetness!

 

[Robert]

Madness.

Kiwis should have batted another 5 overs and taken the lead to 500. Just to crush England's spirits.

Now England still has a sniffer here. They are not completely out of it yet.

Of what? Drawing the match because NZ batted too long? I would have declared earlier! Now it is raining!

 

[Statsman]

Only one team has ever scored more than 340 to win here in the forth, and that was 70 years ago with one of the greatest batsman of all time scoring half the runs and being not out at the end.

Corrected.






Just kidding.

 

[Pantani]

spot on. There is no point in playing a 5 test match series against a hapless indian side, and just playing two tests against a buoyant newzealand side.

Money

 

[MarkCooper]

I'm singing in the rain
Just singing in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I'm happy again
I'm laughing at clouds
So dark up above
The sun's in my heart
And I'm ready for love
For love
Let the stormy clouds chase
Everyone from the place
Come on with the rain
I've a smile on my face
I'll walk down the lane
With a happy refrain
Singing, singing in the rain
In the rain.

 

[Dee1990]

So typical, rain working in Englands favour.

 

[Statsman]

So typical, rain working in Englands favour.

India's greatest overseas series victory of last decade had rain working for us. It was against England.

 

[Chrish]

He also admitted that players from other countries tampered.

spot on. There is no point in playing a 5 test match series against a hapless indian side, and just playing two tests against a buoyant newzealand side.

Nope! Watching India getting slaughtered was too much fun!!

 

[Boxer]

Great fight by NZ, rain rain go away...

 

[Boxer]

Will Eng try to get those 411 runs on day 5 and take the series

 

[FlickedOffHips]

england saved by the rain. Not good.

 

[Robert]

Looks like no play today.

Ninety overs to survive tomorrow with all wickets standing. Step forward Ali Cook, this is what you were born for!

 

[Markhor]

excellent lunch time discussion on captain and management of the team in the modern game.

atherton talking about how theres three components equally important - the structure, producing a pool of players, the selectors who pick the best out of that pool and the captain/coach who man manage that best talent.

warne has a different opinion, that a happy dressing room isnt really that important, but what is crucial is that the captain is respected and trusted. he also believes that the captain should be in control of everything - except obvioulsy the managing of under 19 teams, and developing periphery players, since at the end of the day wins and losses go against him.

i guess it depends a lot on the culture of the country. the aussie culture of speaking your mind, and aggresive debate being almost a sign of respect works for warnes model. not sure that would translate to england or pakistan for example. pakistan it definitely wouldnt - all that power in one persons hands takes it away from all the vampires who drink from the fountain of pakistani cricket blood.

Loved the discussion and shows why Sky is the very best for cricket coverage.

Atherton is simply brilliant as an analyst, very articulate and explains things so well. Highly underrated cricket mind and its a shame he's never been used in some capacity for the ECB although I wouldn't want him away from the commentary box unlike Andrew Strauss who thankfully was given an ECB job.

 

[godzilla]

Loved the discussion and shows why Sky is the very best for cricket coverage.

Atherton is simply brilliant as an analyst, very articulate and explains things so well. Highly underrated cricket mind and its a shame he's never been used in some capacity for the ECB although I wouldn't want him away from the commentary box unlike Andrew Strauss who thankfully was given an ECB job.

agree on all counts.

 

[ali bubba]

This may seem an odd thing to say but this rain break could go against England here. England have batted well but tomorrow thanks to the bad weather they know they can only really save the game. England could go in defensive mode with the bat and that's usually when England is likely to collapse. They need to play their shots tomorrow, not play to survive.

 

[Robert]

This may seem an odd thing to say but this rain break could go against England here. England have batted well but tomorrow thanks to the bad weather they know they can only really save the game. England could go in defensive mode with the bat and that's usually when England is likely to collapse. They need to play their shots tomorrow, not play to survive.

There is absolutely no way they can get 400 runs on the last day of a test match, unless a bloke named Bradman comes in first drop. It's going to be resolute defence all day. With four or five long-innings men available, I reckon they can bring the ship home.

 

[ali bubba]

There is absolutely no way they can get 400 runs on the last day of a test match, unless a bloke named Bradman comes in first drop. It's going to be resolute defence all day. With four or five long-innings men available, I reckon they can bring the ship home.

Oh of course they won't win this test. But they need to play normal cricket. The likes of Bell, Ballance and Root can't just play defensive like Cook can. But also, going gung ho would be silly.

 

[James]

The way Cook and Lyth have batted together in this match gives England the perfect model to follow.

Just play straight, be watchful - if the spinner beats your bat, don't let it affect you mentally - put the bad balls away, 3.5 runs per over - and they'll shake hands in time for dinner.

It isn't a bad pitch, even after 4 days.

Although I'm still going for 230 all out.

 

[Slog]

lucky England...

 

[MarkCooper]

This rain is very good for the gardens. I hope the strong winds overnight don't blow some of the water off the covers.

 

[Robert]

Oh of course they won't win this test. But they need to play normal cricket. The likes of Bell, Ballance and Root can't just play defensive like Cook can. But also, going gung ho would be silly.

Root won't, though he can bat all day anyway. The other two can dig in, Ballance especially.

 

[Belawal2014]

Exciting day of test cricket awaits.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Its pouring down, lucky New Zealand........saved from declaring too early.....by Cook standards anyway.

Lovely fresh rainy day awaits.....

Tomorrows Predication: Rain No Play Today......there was only ever one team who was going to win this series.
Love Mcculum's play but the bowling is lacking unless it is swinging loads......they missing an Anderson.

Another series win.

 

[MarkCooper]

I am very angry with this rain! It is going to prevent England achieving a 2 nill series win.

I would just like to say to any New Zealand people or sheep who may be reading this: I am really sorry about the rain.

 

[Junaids]

The point this kind of stat misses is that the "fourth innings" isn't what it was. On certain teams it will have a mental effect more than anything; but the reality is as so many people whine here, the pitches don't deteriorate now and pitches hold up better and are still roads.

This is the only explanation I have for teams hammering the ball to every corner of the park at the tail end of the third innings and the second the fourth innings starts batsmen start behaving like mice.

The fourth innings remains the last frontier in Tests. There is a successful run chase for over 400 runs once per 500 Tests.

NZ had an unassailable total already at the end of Day Three. But rain is always a risk in England. Every over NZ batted in Day 4 just increased the chances of a draw by 5% and reduced the chances of an NZ win by the same 5%. The chances of an England win remained at around 0.05%.

 

[kingusama92]

Tough challenge for England.

I'd be surprised to see them survive the day.

 

[SL_Fan]

Looks like rain will save Eng yet again

 

[leatherface58]

Tough challenge for England.

I'd be surprised to see them survive the day.

I don't think they will need to survive the day. #TearsOfRain

 

[Robert]

1-1 would be a fair reflection of the way these two teams have played.

NZ deserve five tests now, not two. Then we could have a better idea of which team is best.

Incredibly, Sir Richard Hadlee never played a five-test series. I think he only got one four-test series - in England in 1983 after the WC.

 

[Random Aussie]

1-1 would be a fair reflection of the way these two teams have played.

NZ deserve five tests now, not two. Then we could have a better idea of which team is best.

Incredibly, Sir Richard Hadlee never played a five-test series. I think he only got one four-test series - in England in 1983 after the WC.

Hard to pick that years out when the schedules are made though.

But I can happily tell you NZ>England.

 

[James]

Hard to pick that years out when the schedules are made though.

But I can happily tell you NZ>England.

I agree in terms of quality. This is also reflected in the rankings.

What England do have is a lot of heart and spirit, which carried them to their win at Lords and helps them to punch above their weight.

Test cricket is more about mental strength than physiology and talent imo.

 

[Boxer]

1-1 would be a fair reflection of the way these two teams have played.

NZ deserve five tests now, not two. Then we could have a better idea of which team is best.

Incredibly, Sir Richard Hadlee never played a five-test series. I think he only got one four-test series - in England in 1983 after the WC.

1-1 on home turf is not a fair reflection instead a reflection of which team played better