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Ertugrul: Turkish TV serials are a big hit in Pakistan

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I used to be a fan of the show but even I don’t follow the actors as closely as you do. If it wasn’t for you most of us likely would not know about the visit or the pictures lol.
 
El Generico said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I used to be a fan of the show but even I don’t follow the actors as closely as you do. If it wasn’t for you most of us likely would not know about the visit or the pictures lol.
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Its on Dawn’s front page website..
 
JaDed said:
Its on Dawn’s front page website..
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Oh ok, but still have to get give credit to Mamoon for sharing this because I don’t visit dawn too often so wouldn’t have found out about this if not for him. BTW why is Dawn so popular amongst Indians? You seem to be a regular and majority of the comments there are also Indian.
 
El Generico said:
Oh ok, but still have to get give credit to Mamoon for sharing this because I don’t visit dawn too often so wouldn’t have found out about this if not for him. BTW why is Dawn so popular amongst Indians? You seem to be a regular and majority of the comments there are also Indian.
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Nadeem F paracha, also years ago when I knew nothing about Pakistan Dawn was the only one with pictures and well written articles(English), so guess it stuck.

Its easier to read(website).. some of their coverage of Indian events is also good.

I tried reading express tribune but way too much of bollywood news and stories from Nytimes.
 
Mamoon said:
I got these pictures from Twitter. Ertugrul is trending today. After all, our national hero has finally come home.
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Stop these jibes at Pakistanis. There is no wrong in being a fan of art and artist.
 
Imran Khan was right when he called liberals in Pakistan fascist. Unbelievable that some posters have an issue if Pakistanis watch a tv show.
 
saeedhk said:
He is a legend. He is very popular in Pakistan. Major Sahab and Phool Aur Kaantay are top-notch.
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He is popular in Pakistan? That means all Pakistanis are wannabe Indians and are ashamed of their own nation. What a travesty!
 
gazza619 said:
Stop these jibes at Pakistanis. There is no wrong in being a fan of art and artist.
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We are not just fans of this artist. We don’t have the same connection with him as we do with other foreign artists that Pakistanis tend to like, for example Amir Khan and SRK, who are quite loved in Pakistan.

But when it comes to this guy, our obsession goes into overdrive and we think of him as some sort of national hero.

This mentality has developed because our PM has forced this show down the throats of the nation and has called a fictional show an accurate representation of Ottoman history. A laughable assertion.

As as a result, this actor has become more than just an artist that people like - his status is not equivalent to the other actors that are liked in Pakistan.

Today morning I saw a few comments on social media where people were telling him that Pakistan is his second home. What nonsense? Why and how?
 
El Generico said:
He is popular in Pakistan? That means all Pakistanis are wannabe Indians and are ashamed of their own nation. What a travesty!
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There is difference between popularity and treating someone like a national hero. Hundreds of Bollywood and Hollywood (more niche market in Pakistan) actors are also popular but they are not treated like national heroes.

If Ajay Devgan comes to Pakistan and tell him that Pakistan is second home, this type of weird obsession will indicate that we are wannabe Indians and are ashamed of our own nation.
 
El Generico said:
He is popular in Pakistan? That means all Pakistanis are wannabe Indians and are ashamed of their own nation. What a travesty!
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The issue is that Pakistanis have elevated Ertugral to the level of a revered religious personality. He has become our country's godfather! No Pakistan has ever said to Ajay that India and Pakistan. The obsession with Ertugral is disturbing but fully understandable because Pakistanis watch the show to fill in their identity void.

I remember how Pakistanis flocked to Erugral's Insta page and lectured him on Islam after he posted a picture of his dog. I also remember how Pakistanis flocked to Esra's Insta page and told their Baji to cover up after she posted a picture of herself clad in a bikini. This whole obsession is unusual and disturbing.
 
Mamoon said:
There is difference between popularity and treating someone like a national hero. Hundreds of Bollywood and Hollywood (more niche market in Pakistan) actors are also popular but they are not treated like national heroes.

If Ajay Devgan comes to Pakistan and tell him that Pakistan is second home, this type of weird obsession will indicate that we are wannabe Indians and are ashamed of our own nation.
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Do you know Dilip Kumar? When he came to Pakistan, big events were held and he was given one of Pakistan’s highest civilian award(Nishan E Imitaz). Does that mean Pakistanis are wannabe Indians? I agree some Pakistanis go overboard with appreciation but vast majority see Engin Altan as a good actor and that does not make them wannabe Turks.

Cause if appreciation means someone is a wannabe then Pakistanis are wannabe Indians for giving Indian actors national civilian honours.
 
saeedhk said:
The issue is that Pakistanis have elevated Ertugral to the level of a revered religious personality. He has become our country's godfather! No Pakistan has ever said to Ajay that India and Pakistan. The obsession with Ertugral is disturbing but fully understandable because Pakistanis watch the show to fill in their identity void.

I remember how Pakistanis flocked to Erugral's Insta page and lectured him on Islam after he posted a picture of his dog. I also remember how Pakistanis flocked to Esra's Insta page and told their Baji to cover up after she posted a picture of herself clad in a bikini. This whole obsession is unusual and disturbing.
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Have you watched The Office? It’s an American show and an actor in that show got abuse and threats against her dog because people didn’t like what she did in a fictional scene. Star Wars actors were bullied and given death threats.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/08/offi...ut-controversial-cathy-jim-plotline-13102203/

So does that mean all Americans are crazy lunatics based on how the actress was treated or how Star War’s cast was treated? Social media highlights the worst of the worst as they are often the loudest but every country has people like that, Pakistan is not special.

Pakistan has some weird fans but if you think that is unusual and just limited to one country you are mistaken. Some fans are creepy no matter what country they are form.
 
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El Generico said:
Do you know Dilip Kumar? When he came to Pakistan, big events were held and he was given one of Pakistan’s highest civilian award(Nishan E Imitaz). Does that mean Pakistanis are wannabe Indians? I agree some Pakistanis go overboard with appreciation but vast majority see Engin Altan as a good actor and that does not make them wannabe Turks.

Cause if appreciation means someone is a wannabe then Pakistanis are wannabe Indians for giving Indian actors national civilian honours.
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Dilip Kumar’s house in Peshawar is still preserved. If you go to that area, people will still point it out to you. It’s the same for SRK and the Kapoors, their origins are in Peshawar and the people take pride in it.

But there is a connection there. They were born in Peshawar and some of them also lived their early years here, so I am not sure how you can compare that to our obsession with Ertugrul unless you were unaware of the origins of Dilip Kumar.

This Ertugrul actor has nothing to do with Pakistan at all. Absolutely zero connection. And yet, we consider him a national hero and tell him that Pakistan is his second home.

It almost appears that people are struggling to distinguish the actor who played Ertugrul from the character Ertugrul himself, whom we now seem to revere as much as some of the founding fathers of Pakistan.
 
@Mamnoon Didn’t we also give Sammy an honorary citizenship? Does that mean we are wannabe St lucians? I get your point, Pakistanis are a bit too eager for appreciation and go over the top when someone praises them. I am not arguing that but just saying appreciating someone does not make you a wannabe. Pakistanis are a bit ott but I doubt identity crisis has anything to do with it. If some Spanish actor praised Pakistan and made videos in Urdu, Pakistanis would go crazy over them too.
 
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[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], Sorry I tagged your name wrong in the last post and can’t edit anymore.
 
El Generico said:
@Mamnoon Didn’t we also give Sammy an honorary citizenship? Does that mean we are wannabe St lucians? I get your point, Pakistanis are a bit too eager for appreciation and go over the top when someone praises them. I am not arguing that but just saying appreciating someone does not make you a wannabe. Pakistanis are a bit ott but I doubt identity crisis has anything to do with it. If some Spanish actor praised Pakistan and made videos in Urdu, Pakistanis would go crazy over them too.
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I have criticized our treatment of Sammy as well. This guy has become a cartoon character for PSL and he is milking the fandom because he knows he is no longer good enough to get contracts in other leagues.

He was banished from IPL years ago and I think he wasn’t even picked in the Caribbean league lately.

But this guy has become a hero in Pakistan because he spoke a few Pashto words and wore a traditional cap and played the rabab.

People say he has done a lot for Pakistan cricket, but actually, he did a lot of that for his bank account.

It is the same with that third rate standup comedian Jeremy McLellan, who one came to Pakistan and praised the people here and since then we have helped him stay relevant.

Pakistanis turned Eva Zubeck the traveler into an overnight celebrity for coming to Pakistan and writing some good things on her Instagram.

It is not her special love for Pakistan but that is what she does and what she has done in the 100+ countries that she has been to.

But only in Pakistan was she treated like some big celebrity - she immediately got interviews with tv channels, major brand endorsements and even met the PM. None of this stuff happened in most (if any) other countries.

As a foreigner, if you want to excel in life, just say a few good things about Pakistan and we will turn you into a star.

Pakistan is the most “nadeeda” nation on earth and is always eager for foreign appreciation and approval and is always trying hard to find some link with some Arab or Turk.

It is embarrassing to say the least.
 
Lol Mamoon why are you so salty and bitter about everything
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Like I said in my last post I mostly agree with you. Pakistanis are way too eager and at times go over the top. However that is likely because in the last decade or so, Pakistan has only been on the news for negative reasons. Pakistan has gone though a real tough patch so people tend to overreact when they see something positive. Every country likes when others praise them but some Pakistanis tend to overdo do it. The lack of positive coverage is likely why Pakistanis are ”nadeeda “ for praise not an identity crisis. Although Indians are not too different, I have also seen them overhype nobodies because they said a good word about them.

Btw like you pointed out , Pakistanis also went crazy over Sammy and other American /European actors/vloggers. Does that not disprove the identity crisis thing? For most it’s more of a case of being over the top rather then an identity issue imo.
 
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El Generico said:
Have you watched The Office? It’s an American show and an actor in that show got abuse and threats against her dog because people didn’t like what she did in a fictional scene. Star Wars actors were bullied and given death threats.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/08/offi...ut-controversial-cathy-jim-plotline-13102203/

So does that mean all Americans are crazy lunatics based on how the actress was treated or how Star War’s cast was treated? Social media highlights the worst of the worst as they are often the loudest but every country has people like that, Pakistan is not special.

Pakistan has some weird fans but if you think that is unusual and just limited to one country you are mistaken. Some fans are creepy no matter what country they are form.
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There is a difference between praising/criticizing a drama or film star and trying to desperately associate a film star with your country, culture, language and way of life. No wonder Pakistanis got a rude awakening when they found out that the Turks are a very liberal lot and their lifestyle is similar to that of European's. Hence, all the flocking to the Baji's Insta account and morally policing her.

A few months back, Pakistanis thought that Turkey and Pakistan were becoming one nation and that Pakistanis would be able to travel freely to Turkey. They said it was the beginning of Pakistan's rise to power.:rp
 
saeedhk said:
There is a difference between praising/criticizing a drama or film star and trying to desperately associate a film star with your country, culture, language and way of life. No wonder Pakistanis got a rude awakening when they found out that the Turks are a very liberal lot and their lifestyle is similar to that of European's. Hence, all the flocking to the Baji's Insta account and morally policing her.

A few months back, Pakistanis thought that Turkey and Pakistan were becoming one nation and that Pakistanis would be able to travel freely to Turkey. They said it was the beginning of Pakistan's rise to power.:rp
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Death threats are just criticism ? Threatening to kill someone over a fictional show(something Americans fans do routinely) is way worse then whatever Pakistani fans did. Anyways my point was simple, every country has crazy fans and Pakistan is no different.
 
JaDed said:
Ajay Devgan? Didnt know people cared about him in Pak to make memes?
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Bollywood has been huge in Pakistan since it's inception. Actually it is testament to India's soft power hold over Pakistan, which has started to wane somewhat due to a combination of restrictions imposed on both sides of the border, and also the spread of rival shows from other countries which thanks to dubbing and subtitles are getting a hold in Pakistan.

That is the reason behind the fury and dismay of PP's Indophiles being unleashed in this thread. Ertugrul's brilliant production standards ( compared to Pakistani or Indian) and theme of rise of the Ottoman empire from a small village is a great story which catches the imagination of Pakistanis and other Muslims abroad. Hence why it has been banned in some arab dictatorships for fear of quelling unrest against the despot regimes.
 
El Generico said:
Death threats are just criticism ? Threatening to kill someone over a fictional show(something Americans fans do routinely) is way worse then whatever Pakistani fans did. Anyways my point was simple, every country has crazy fans and Pakistan is no different.
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Read my full post. You have selectively quoted me.
 
saeedhk said:
There is a difference between praising/criticizing a drama or film star and trying to desperately associate a film star with your country, culture, language and way of life. No wonder Pakistanis got a rude awakening when they found out that the Turks are a very liberal lot and their lifestyle is similar to that of European's. Hence, all the flocking to the Baji's Insta account and morally policing her.

A few months back, Pakistanis thought that Turkey and Pakistan were becoming one nation and that Pakistanis would be able to travel freely to Turkey. They said it was the beginning of Pakistan's rise to power.:rp
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:)))

This is when our cringe level maxed out. That was one embarrassing episode.
 
saeedhk said:
Read my full post. You have selectively quoted me.
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The main gist of your post was that some Pakistani fans are cringey and that’s true but it’s not limited to Pakistan. Fandoms all over the world have sections that are extremely weird and cringeworthy. Pakistan has a large population obviously some are gonna be a bit odd.
 
I haven't seen this show but everyone I know is watching it. It's on every TV I see. Which is crazy. The last time I saw a show get this popular in Pakistan was "Ishiq-e-Mamnoon". Which was another Turkish show.
The biggest reason for this is the fact that our TV is completely dull and boring. It catered towards only one Demographic and despite having some good writing and performances all the shows have a very "samey feeling". In contrast, when these foreign shows are telecasted with dubs in Urdu people get to see how good Television can actually be.
I don't really have any hope for our own Television so I hope that we start to import more shows from countries like South Korea and Japan. KDramas are very innovative and much more fun than the "ronna-dhonna" of our shows.
 
KoyoAli said:
I haven't seen this show but everyone I know is watching it. It's on every TV I see. Which is crazy. The last time I saw a show get this popular in Pakistan was "Ishiq-e-Mamnoon". Which was another Turkish show.
The biggest reason for this is the fact that our TV is completely dull and boring. It catered towards only one Demographic and despite having some good writing and performances all the shows have a very "samey feeling". In contrast, when these foreign shows are telecasted with dubs in Urdu people get to see how good Television can actually be.
I don't really have any hope for our own Television so I hope that we start to import more shows from countries like South Korea and Japan. KDramas are very innovative and much more fun than the "ronna-dhonna" of our shows.
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Importing shows like Ertugrul and from outside the subcontinent will give Pakistani tv the kick up the backside it's long required. They used to have pressure from Bollywood previously, but Bollywood itself needed a massive kick up the backside from foreign tv. For too long Indian cinema got by ripping off other film industries from around the globe and presenting it as "Indian" product. Now they will have to be creative and I think you will find that when they finally produce some worthy content it will have some local flavour which will give it authenticity.
 
Mamoon said:
We are not just fans of this artist. We don’t have the same connection with him as we do with other foreign artists that Pakistanis tend to like, for example Amir Khan and SRK, who are quite loved in Pakistan.

But when it comes to this guy, our obsession goes into overdrive and we think of him as some sort of national hero.

This mentality has developed because our PM has forced this show down the throats of the nation and has called a fictional show an accurate representation of Ottoman history. A laughable assertion.

As as a result, this actor has become more than just an artist that people like - his status is not equivalent to the other actors that are liked in Pakistan.

Today morning I saw a few comments on social media where people were telling him that Pakistan is his second home. What nonsense? Why and how?
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I dont know whats unprecedented here. do you know how fans globally react to stars like justin bieber or any popular hollywood stars? Even Indians treat Rajnikant or Amitabh bachchan as cult figures.
 
Madplayer said:
I dont know whats unprecedented here. do you know how fans globally react to stars like justin bieber or any popular hollywood stars? Even Indians treat Rajnikant or Amitabh bachchan as cult figures.
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Amitabh and Rajnikant are Indians. Indians can treat them like cult figures and that is fine.

Bieber is a megastar with millions of fans in different countries but a British fan will not consider him a British hero or one of their own.

That is what is happening with the bizarre fandom of these Etugrul actors. This guy as well as that girl have become national heroes in Pakistan. We act as if we have a connection with them because we think that we are thaykedaar and custodians of Islam.

As saeedhk explained, Pakistanis saw the female lead in a bikini on her Instagram and started their moral policing because since she acted in a fictional Ottoman show, she must live her life according to Islamic values and the cultural values of Pakistanis.

We are very eager and keen to establish some sort of special connection with these Etugrul actors. We want them to state that Pakistan is their second home.

As a nation, we are always parai shaadi me Abdullah deewana. We want to feel as if we have something to do with the Ottomans.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] & [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] are both obsessed with why people in Pakistan love the show. Let it go.
 
Mamoon said:
Bieber is a megastar with millions of fans in different countries but a British fan will not consider him a British hero or one of their own.
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Do Pakistanis consider the Turkish actor as a Pakistani hero?

So what you are basically saying is that if Pakistanis loved a Pakistani actor so much, you wouldnt have a problem. But your problem is why they are showing so much love towards a foreign actor?
 
in_cutter said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] & [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] are both obsessed with why people in Pakistan love the show. Let it go.
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They both fear the pan-Islamic brotherhood attraction I think, pretty clear from their posting history. Why else would anyone make such a big deal out of a tv show? We see Mamoon going all gaga over Game of Thrones, but it would never occur to him to question why are so many white Americans writing shows about a story based essentially on the War of the Roses in England. Why do they watch shows like Vikings? Do these critics ever start wondering why there is so much psychological longing for heroic times in Europe rooted in such fiction?

I mean they are just tv shows, and it didn't occur to me either - love all of them actually - but when you get such questions asked about why Pakistan fans like Ertugrul then I can't help wondering about shows like GoT and Lord of the Rings as well. :13:
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
They both fear the pan-Islamic brotherhood attraction I think, pretty clear from their posting history. Why else would anyone make such a big deal out of a tv show? We see Mamoon going all gaga over Game of Thrones, but it would never occur to him to question why are so many white Americans writing shows about a story based essentially on the War of the Roses in England. Why do they watch shows like Vikings? Do these critics ever start wondering why there is so much psychological longing for heroic times in Europe rooted in such fiction?

I mean they are just tv shows, and it didn't occur to me either - love all of them actually - but when you get such questions asked about why Pakistan fans like Ertugrul then I can't help wondering about shows like GoT and Lord of the Rings as well. :13:
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[MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] was arrogantly banging on about how this show will incite violence...have there been any cases so far?
 
in_cutter said:
[MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] was arrogantly banging on about how this show will incite violence...have there been any cases so far?
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The scenes are gory - beheadings and mutilations are shown and I am sure kids watch it too! The impact will be felt in the coming years.

Extremism is increasing in Pakistan I believe. In November alone, at least three Hindu temples were vandalised. Of course, it is difficult to blame the drama for such actions. However, I do believe the drama promotes and glorifies violence.

Watch the video below to find out how Pakistani Christians feel about Ertugral. According to them, there is blasphemy in the drama. But who cares, blasphemy only matters when it is done against Muslims.


https://youtu.be/OAS5wSheOFU
 
in_cutter said:
[MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] was arrogantly banging on about how this show will incite violence...have there been any cases so far?
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He was also quoted and lol'd with empathy by [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] with the claim that Pakistanis after watching Ertugrul thought Turkey and Pakistan had become one nation. Would love to see some proof of this, but I suspect he is probably quoting some twitter fool and using that to make whole of Pakistan look like idiots.
 
It was a cringe fest yesterday! A Pakistani guy sang Ertugral drama’s theme song to the visiting Ertugral.

Then, at a press conference Ertugral said ‘ Lahore Lahore aye’ after which a journalist asked whether he would like to work in Pakistani drama to which Ertugral replied in the affirmative drawing applause and cheers from the journalists.
 
When Halime Baji rides a horse, Pakistanis salivate, go gaga over it and say that she is a true Muslim woman and that is how women should be. Halime’s horse-riding videos go viral.

However, when Pakistani women or actresses ride bicycles or bikes, they receive hate comments and they are accused of spreading vulgarity. Hypocrisy!
 
saeedhk said:
It was a cringe fest yesterday! A Pakistani guy sang Ertugral drama’s theme song to the visiting Ertugral.

Then, at a press conference Ertugral said ‘ Lahore Lahore aye’ after which a journalist asked whether he would like to work in Pakistani drama to which Ertugral replied in the affirmative drawing applause and cheers from the journalists.
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The song bit sounds odd but how is the other stuff cringe? It sounds like a standard celebrity press conference.

Anyways thanks for these step by step updates of his visit. Majority of us don’t have the time to go on YouTube and other social media to follow every minute of his visit so it’s great that you are providing regular updates.
 
Embarrassing to say the least.

I bet if we put his face on our currency notes people won’t complain.

Honorary Pakistani citizenship is on the cards.
 
To quote a tweet:

“The man who destroyed bollywood and hollywood.the one man army is now in pakistan in support of muslim unity and brotherhood.welcome etugrul sir to your second home Pakistan”

:101: :)))
 
Mamoon said:
To quote a tweet:

“The man who destroyed bollywood and hollywood.the one man army is now in pakistan in support of muslim unity and brotherhood.welcome etugrul sir to your second home Pakistan”

:101: :)))
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Another tweet and a few memes read : ‘The destroyer of the film industry of 163 countries!’

Kaha say atay hai yeh log!
 
saeedhk said:
Another tweet and a few memes read : ‘The destroyer of the film industry of 163 countries!’

Kaha say atay hai yeh log!
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“Thanks to etrugul we are now batter muslims and have the courage to stand up for the truth”

My my my :)))
 
Grown men in this thread whining over a celebrity visiting their country :))
 
So not only has Etrugul forced 163 countries to shut down their movie industries, he has also made us BATTER Muslims and gave us the courage to stand up for the truth.

Wow.
 
This show is on Netflix here in India I notice.

Let's see what all the fuss is about. *Plays S01E01.*
 
Dangerous delusions — Ertugrul mania

A TURKISH drama series brimming with tribal intrigues, blood, murder, and conquest — all wrapped in pious religious idiom — has taken Pakistan by storm.

Filmed in Anatolia, Dirilis: Ertugrul is a 150-episode fictional account of Ertugrul Ghazi, father of the Ottoman Empire’s founder.

As of yesterday (Friday), the YouTube count for the 30th Urdu-dubbed episode had already clocked up 5.5 million views on Pakistan Television.

Even those who made Dirilis are astonished — and hugely pleased — at its tumultuous welcome. Tribal Turkmen fighting for a homeland can’t be expected to capture the imagination of millions in some far-off country.

But Pakistan is different. Transfixed, entire families are spending evenings watching it together. They think it is wholesome entertainment and genuine Islamic history.

That this serial is frankly propagandistic and ideologically motivated is beyond doubt. It has been manufactured for a purpose. But what purpose?

Faked history fuels revivalist dreams, creates false hopes, & suggests the way forward is through the sword.

If it seeks to project Islam as a religion of peace and to counter Islamophobia, then the very opposite is achieved.

The first scene of the first episode begins with sword-making and sword-sharpening in the background of nomadic tents.

The tribe’s adversaries are Christians and Byzantines whose bloodied bodies lie scattered here and there after every fight.

The hero, Ertugrul Ghazi, not only beheads several Knight Templars but also former associates from his tribe, such as Kurdoglu Bey, who he suspects of disloyalty.

Most peoples don’t like invaders, but Pakistan’s psyche is somehow special. Perhaps overwhelmed by Erdogan’s aggressive style, Prime Minister Khan proudly tweeted that Turks had ruled India for 600 years.

Historians will raise their eyebrows — this is between quarter-true to half-true only. But it must be rare for a prime minister to hail imperial rule over his land.

Khan is not alone. Pakistan celebrates all post-eighth century invasions beginning with Mohammed bin Qasim’s conquest of Sindh in 712 AD.

Urdu novelist Nasim Hijazi’s books, devoured by millions, are an ode to the Arab conquest of India. Like filmmaker Mehmet Bozdag, Hijazi’s strength lay in creating imagery unconstrained by facts.

The creators of Dirilis: Ertugrul want us to wallow in the past glories of others and celebrate imperialism.

Hook, line and sinker, we are mindlessly swallowing their proffered bait. This poisonous substance can only reinforce the dangerous delusion that going forward actually means going backward.

Instead, the way forward is to ask that Pakistaniat spring from Pakistan’s native soil.

It must be rooted in the diversity of all our peoples and historically formed cultures. The year 1971 showed decisively the limits of pan-Islamism.

Aping Saudi culture failed to create a viable Pakistani identity; aping Turkey won’t get us much further.

Instead a strong national identity can emerge only if Pakistan embraces pluralism, accepts that Punjab is just another Pakistani province, and helps all citizens achieve a sense of belonging based upon a commitment to equality and justice.
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An excellent write-up by Pervez Hoodbhoy. He has said it all.
 
The reason for Imran Khan’s obsession and fandom over this show is because he views himself as a Caliph.

That is why keeps comparing the mess that he has created over the last two years as an modern Islamic state inspired from the Madinah welfare state established by the Prophet PBUH.
 
Mamoon said:
Dangerous delusions — Ertugrul mania



An excellent write-up by Pervez Hoodbhoy. He has said it all.
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I read this article in June or July. You should have read the comments under the article. Poor Hoodbhoy was severely abused.
 
saeedhk said:
I read this article in June or July. You should have read the comments under the article. Poor Hoodbhoy was severely abused.
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Yes, and I think I shared it earlier in this thread if I am not mistaken.

Hoodbhoy is one of the smartest people in the country but he is treated like a traitor because he is not delusional and not a victim of our propaganda.
 
A brilliant mind like Pervez Hoodbhoy is underutilized because his mentality does not align with the nation’s mentality.

The same mentality that has ensured that Pakistan is still 50 years behind other countries in R&D.

He should have been the Science & Technology Minister.

Instead, we have given that position to an average lawyer like Fawad Chaudhry who claimed that Pakistan space program (SUPARCO) sent the Hubble telescope to space.

Hubble telescope was launched in space in 1990 at a cost of $1.5 billion.

SUPARCO's budget today is around $45 million.

This is Imran’s team selection and vision for Pakistan. These are the brilliant minds that will drive the Science and Technology ministry.
 
Mamoon said:
A brilliant mind like Pervez Hoodbhoy is underutilized because his mentality does not align with the nation’s mentality.

The same mentality that has ensured that Pakistan is still 50 years behind other countries in R&D.

He should have been the Science & Technology Minister.

Instead, we have given that position to an average lawyer like Fawad Chaudhry who claimed that Pakistan space program (SUPARCO) sent the Hubble telescope to space.

Hubble telescope was launched in space in 1990 at a cost of $1.5 billion.

SUPARCO's budget today is around $45 million.

This is Imran’s team selection and vision for Pakistan. These are the brilliant minds that will drive the Science and Technology ministry.
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Exactly. He is one of the greatest Pakistanis but one of the most hated Pakistanis too because he believes in progressive thought, free of religion, civilian supremacy and supremacy of science and technology. I have been following his page on FB for the past 5/6 years and he is a remarkable scientist and an awesome person.

He is renowned for his work internationally but shunned and cursed by his own country!

As a rule of thumb, if the majority of Pakistanis are against you, it means you are doing something good!
 
saeedhk said:
Exactly. He is one of the greatest Pakistanis but one of the most hated Pakistanis too because he believes in progressive thought, free of religion, civilian supremacy and supremacy of science and technology. I have been following his page on FB for the past 5/6 years and he is a remarkable scientist and an awesome person.

He is renowned for his work internationally but shunned and cursed by his own country!

As a rule of thumb, if the majority of Pakistanis are against you, it means you are doing something good!
Click to expand...

Totally agree with what you said regarding the viewpoint of majority of Pakistanis.

Look at how we have treated our greatest scientist, the Nobel winner Abdus Salam.

If we could treat him like that because of his faith, the treatment of “traitor” Hoodbhoy should not be surprising.
 
saeedhk said:
I read this article in June or July. You should have read the comments under the article. Poor Hoodbhoy was severely abused.
Click to expand...

So he should be. Criticising families for watching a tv show together for pete's sake. Barely any of the criticisms in that article stand up to scrutiny. Carpng about the blood and violence, I can guarantee you just like one of the most vocal critics on here, he would be waxing lyrical over Game of Thrones which ironically has a lot more blood and violence.

Hoodbhoy is indeed a brilliant scientist, but he is also a self hating Pakistani like a few we are familiar with. He should stick to science and he would be appreciated far more in his home country instead of imploring Pakistanis to embrace hindu culture.
 
saeedhk said:
The scenes are gory - beheadings and mutilations are shown and I am sure kids watch it too! The impact will be felt in the coming years.

Extremism is increasing in Pakistan I believe. In November alone, at least three Hindu temples were vandalised. Of course, it is difficult to blame the drama for such actions. However, I do believe the drama promotes and glorifies violence.

Watch the video below to find out how Pakistani Christians feel about Ertugral. According to them, there is blasphemy in the drama. But who cares, blasphemy only matters when it is done against Muslims.


https://youtu.be/OAS5wSheOFU
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Scenes are gory etc? How was life like all them years ago?

Stick to the teletubbies Lad or whatever the bollywood version of that is,can ask Mamoon to join in
 
saeedhk said:
He is a legend. He is very popular in Pakistan. Major Sahab and Phool Aur Kaantay are top-notch.
Click to expand...

Who said or where did you get this that Ajay Devgn is popular in Pakistan?

Has always made some anti Pak statements and also his father made and directed him in a movie back in late 90 which was anti Pak.

Aamir, SRK and Salman are the ones which are still quite popular in Pakistan and maybe Akshay Kumar to an extent too.
 
Lol at the meltdown.

The obsession with this drama is cringey but two posters in this thread have successfully out-cringed that.
 
Punjab CM Buzdar meet Ertugrul, presents gifts to the actor including a shield and a rifle. No wonder Pakistan is a laughing stock!

But I believe it is understandable. A government led by the greatest scam artist meeting another artist. Perfect!
 
saeedhk said:
Punjab CM Buzdar meet Ertugrul, presents gifts to the actor including a shield and a rifle. No wonder Pakistan is a laughing stock!

But I believe it is understandable. A government led by the greatest scam artist meeting another artist. Perfect!
Click to expand...

Embarrassing.

Looks like next stop will be in Islamabad to meet the PM himself.

We are treating him like royalty.
 
saeedhk said:
How is that even relevant? Does it mean we should shown our kids scenes of beheadings and mutilations?
Click to expand...

Lol. There is a little something called parental guidance,I do not let my kids watch it (yet.....).

You're trying too hard lad to outdo Mamoon, great comedy duo tbh! Brilliant, keep it up, "Pakistanis" and before you use the olr narrative of- "if we do not conform to the majority that are sheep, does it make us less Pakistani or our view less valid?". Well, yes, if we consider the lack of balance and one sided arguments put forward by laurel and hardy.
 
Waqar's inswinging yorker said:
Lol. There is a little something called parental guidance,I do not let my kids watch it (yet.....).

You're trying too hard lad to outdo Mamoon, great comedy duo tbh! Brilliant, keep it up, "Pakistanis" and before you use the olr narrative of- "if we do not conform to the majority that are sheep, does it make us less Pakistani or our view less valid?". Well, yes, if we consider the lack of balance and one sided arguments put forward by laurel and hardy.
Click to expand...

There is no thing called parental guidance in Pakistan. Young kids also watch the show along with their parents. You need to understand that Pakistan is already a very violent and extremist society.
 
saeedhk said:
There is no thing called parental guidance in Pakistan. Young kids also watch the show along with their parents. You need to understand that Pakistan is already a very violent and extremist society.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the picture I posted above. First, we put a sword in his hand and now CM Punjab gifted him a rifle.

This is the culture and mentality our political leadership is encouraging in our society. His character Etrugrul was a barbarian by modern standards and we are celebrating him as a role-model for children in contemporary society.
 
This show is much better than the new "modern" garbage Pak dramas like Zebaish. Haters will always find faults in everything. Nice breath of fresh air.
 
Mamoon said:
Take a look at the picture I posted above. First, we put a sword in his hand and now CM Punjab gifted him a rifle.

This is the culture and mentality our political leadership is encouraging in our society. His character Etrugrul was a barbarian by modern standards and we are celebrating him as a role-model for children in contemporary society.
Click to expand...

Is Erturgrul as violent or sexually explicit as Game of Thrones? I am asking only because I know you and I were both vocal fans of that show. Which actually made a lot more sense for me than you as I am actually English.

How do you manage to keep a straight face when posting on here? Why does a tv show from Turkey bother you so much more than any show coming from India, US or Korea?
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Is Erturgrul as violent or sexually explicit as Game of Thrones? I am asking only because I know you and I were both vocal fans of that show. Which actually made a lot more sense for me than you as I am actually English.

How do you manage to keep a straight face when posting on here? Why does a tv show from Turkey bother you so much more than any show coming from India, US or Korea?
Click to expand...

Its because the show has Muslims as the protagonists, some people cant digest this.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Is Erturgrul as violent or sexually explicit as Game of Thrones? I am asking only because I know you and I were both vocal fans of that show. Which actually made a lot more sense for me than you as I am actually English.

How do you manage to keep a straight face when posting on here? Why does a tv show from Turkey bother you so much more than any show coming from India, US or Korea?
Click to expand...

Was Game of Thrones aired on Pakistan Television network?

Was Game of Thrones recommended by the PM of Pakistan and did he state that is has educational value?

Did Game of Thrones actors come to Pakistan and receive royal treatment with our political leaders giving them swords and rifles as gifts?

I don’t see why you are equating the two. If the Pakistani Government would have done the same for Game of Thrones, I would criticized them as well and called the obsession cringeworthy.

I have nothing against Etrugrul itself. It is probably a very good fictional representation of the Ottoman Empire/culture just like Vikings is a very good fictional representation of Norse history.

However, my problem is with the PM of Pakistan forcing it down the nation’s throats and laughably declaring that it is an accurate representation of Islamic history and showed be watched by everyone including children.
 
watson367 said:
Its because the show has Muslims as the protagonists, some people cant digest this.
Click to expand...

One of my favorite shows is Omar. It is a brilliant show made by Qatar on the life of Caliph Umar Ibn Khattab.

If our PM wants children and the public of Pakistan to watch a show about Islamic history and learn about Islamic values, that is the show.

It is far, far more accurate than a fictional show based on the Ottoman Empire.
 
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