[EXCLUSIVE] "You never know, I can take my retirement back": Imad Wasim

[PakEngFan]

A spinner who averages the following with the ball in ODIs against the top sides is the most underrated white ball Pakistani cricketer of all time.
Australia: 9 matches, average of 64

England: 10 matches, average of 40

India: 3 matches, no average because has never taken a wicket against them

New Zealand: 4 matches, averages of 126

South Africa: 6 matches, average of 71

These numbers would be embarrassing for a part-timer, let alone someone who played for Pakistan as a front-line spinner.

You could throw Babar Azam the ball in ODIs and he would produce better figures against these sides.

Imad is the worst spinner in history of ODI cricket. I can’t think of any other spinner who has a worse record than he does against the top sides of his era.

32 ODIs, bowling average of 62 with a shambolic strike rate as well - 21 wickets in 32 games with only one 3 wicket haul.

This is the reality of the most underrated white ball Pakistani cricketer of all time.

Beautiful.

Tbh these bowling stats are worse than a part timer.

 

[PakEngFan]

Imad captained Karachi to a PSL victory in 2020 because of Babar, who was the highest run getter and the player of the tournament.

He completely dominated the competition and the next highest run getter trailed him by 150 runs.

Imad himself had a pretty average tournament and wasn’t even close to being one of the best performers.

Babar carried Karachi in that edition. He was the only Karachi player to feature in the top performers.

The second highest run getter from Karachi (Hales) was 8th on the list and 200 runs behind Babar.

The highest wicket taker from Karachi (Amir) was 10th on the list.

Babar carried Imad and Karachi to the title and he is the only reason why Imad’s name features in the list of PSL winning captains.

He is the last person who has the right to run his mouth against Babar and criticize his approach in T20s. Babar and his approach is the only reason the great cricketing mind of Imad won the title.

Last year when Babar left for Peshawar, the great cricketing mind captained Karachi to a second last position with 7 defeats in 10 games.

Imad’s cricketing mind and captaincy is as big a scam as his cricketing skills. On top of that, he is despicable, toxic character with no class and decency.

People like him are consumed by their own jealously and insecurity. If he had any class, he wouldn’t have been barking about Babar’s T20 game for the last two years after getting dropped from the team, knowing that Babar was the reason why he won the PSL in 2020.

Babar won them the Psl but wait for his fans to remind you of a boundary he scored which helped them win.

Imad has been playing cricket for a long time and still doesn't know how to turn a ball. His fielding reminds me of 4th 11 club cricket uncles. To top it off his batting is awful as well. I honestly can't think of any match winning performances by him other than 1.

I am not going to talk about his pathetic attitude and wannabe superstar while he's levels below someone like shadab.

 

[PakEngFan]

Do I care what happened after Imad proved his point by benching Rizwan, not being forced to play him and still winning the PSL? Of course not.

Rizwan may have done whatever for Multan, but Pakistan is cursed with him as an opener (and quite frankly as a player too). Imad didn’t want that curse for the time being, and hats off to him for evading it!

Why couldn't he bench Babar that season? It's because of Babar he won Psl and now he barks about Babar at any given opportunity.

The fact is both Babar and Rizwan will be remembered by Pakistani fans as our greats while Imad will be history as soon as he retires.

 

[zarak]

People giving Imads batting stats in ODIs should take a good look at their cricketing knowledge. The guy is yet to complete a thousand runs.

 

[hitthestump]

I was wondering why he has so many haters and now I understood the reason behind it.

He was a decent white ball player and it was wrong decision to drop him for Nawaz, who cost Pakistan many important matches.

While Imad is a slightly better player than Nawaz that doesn’t say much lol. This sudden over emphasis on what a great player Imad was is hilarious when he was nothing more than an average cricketer rarely capable of anything special.

@topspin does think that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan and Asif Ali should be the captain, as well have seemingly having to mention Misbah every 5 seconds. So I do take anything he says about cricket with a large dose of salt.

 

[Rana]

Why couldn't he bench Babar that season? It's because of Babar he won Psl and now he barks about Babar at any given opportunity.

The fact is both Babar and Rizwan will be remembered by Pakistani fans as our greats while Imad will be history as soon as he retires.

To be remembered as GREATS, you have to win silverware for your country.

Talk to me when they do.

 

[Rana]

While Imad is a slightly better player than Nawaz that doesn’t say much lol. This sudden over emphasis on what a great player Imad was is hilarious when he was nothing more than an average cricketer rarely capable of anything special.

@topspin does think that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan and Asif Ali should be the captain, as well have seemingly having to mention Misbah every 5 seconds. So I do take anything he says about cricket with a large dose of salt.

Don’t put words in my brother @topspin ‘s mouth. He didn’t say Asif Ali should be captain of Pakistan, nor has he ever endorsed or promoted the idea that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan. That’s me. I endorse that belief. I’m not one of those who makes dumb statements like “Fakhar should bat at 4 because Hafeez figured it out”, or “Shaheen is the guy that made everyone forget who Amir is”.

My view on cricket is simple. Direct. No ifs, no buts.

Asif Ali is a good candidate to be captain because he plays for his team first, instead of himself. What’s wrong with this claim?

Sharjeel Khan and Fakhar Zaman should open for Pakistan in T20 cricket because truly they are two or the best ever T20 openers that can match the modern standards of SENA and Indian sides. What’s wrong with that claim?

 

[zarak]

Don’t put words in my brother @topspin ‘s mouth. He didn’t say Asif Ali should be captain of Pakistan, nor has he ever endorsed or promoted the idea that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan. That’s me. I endorse that belief. I’m not one of those who makes dumb statements like “Fakhar should bat at 4 because Hafeez figured it out”, or “Shaheen is the guy that made everyone forget who Amir is”.

My view on cricket is simple. Direct. No ifs, no buts.

Asif Ali is a good candidate to be captain because he plays for his team first, instead of himself. What’s wrong with this claim?

Sharjeel Khan and Fakhar Zaman should open for Pakistan in T20 cricket because truly they are two or the best ever T20 openers that can match the modern standards of SENA and Indian sides. What’s wrong with that claim?

Both Sharjeel and Fakhar have opened in T20is and they have not performed up to modern standards.

 

[Rana]

Both Sharjeel and Fakhar have opened in T20is and they have not performed up to modern standards.

Opened together?????

 

[zarak]

Opened together?????

No bhai they have played individually as openers and been pretty bad. Unless you believe them playing together will solve everything.

Sharjeel 22 @ 133
Fakhar 23 @ 135

The standard has to be 140+ strike rate and an average close to 30.

 

[Rana]

No

That’s the only relevant answer to my question.

Until the two bat together as openers, and fail in this ploy…

 

[zarak]

That’s the only relevant answer to my question.

Until the two bat together as openers, and fail in this ploy…

Lovely. Why play one failure when you can play two.

 

[Rana]

Lovely. Why play one failure when you can play two.

Which two failures are you referring to? Babar and Rizwan?

 

[zarak]

Which two failures are you referring to? Babar and Rizwan?

Scroll up and read what players the post was about.

 

[Rana]

Scroll up and read what players the post was about.

Oh so Babar and Rizwan are not the failures you are referring to?

 

[zarak]

Oh so Babar and Rizwan are not the failures you are referring to?

You are a bit slow today.
1. Your post was about Sharjeel and Fakhar opening together.
2. I presented you their numbers which are below average and said that any opener should play at a minimum of 140
3. You started talking about Babar and Rizwan

Not following where you are going with this. I regret replying to your post because your responses have limited logic. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Rana]

You are a bit slow today.
1. Your post was about Sharjeel and Fakhar opening together.
2. I presented you their numbers which are below average and said that any opener should play at a minimum of 140
3. You started talking about Babar and Rizwan

Not following where you are going with this. I regret replying to your post because your responses have limited logic. Let's leave it at that.

Because I’m not willing to debate on this anymore.

I am telling you people (out of the little love I have left for the Pakistan cricket team) that the sense of direction of this cricket nation has completely gone off the rails. I don’t blame you or others. But I don’t have the energy to convince anyone anymore.

If you want to carry on justifying your logic with stats (without context), so be it.

-Enjoy Shan Masood opening for KK
-Enjoy Rizwan hiding from left arm seamers, disability to play anything on the off and waiting for easy leg stump line balls to boost his runs tally
-Enjoy Babar Azam misusing his power and playing at snails pace in the powerplay (everywhere generally and don’t bring up PSL last two season’s strike rate to say he is playing modern standards), when he knows players of his kind should only be at 3.

 

[PakEngFan]

To be remembered as GREATS, you have to win silverware for your country.

Talk to me when they do.

So according to this lara is not a great? Brilliant logic.

 

[Rana]

So according to this lara is not a great? Brilliant logic.

What are Lara’s Test achievements?

The door is open, go ahead and achieve them Babar and Rizwan

Then talk to me.

 

[PakEngFan]

What are Lara’s Test achievements?

The door is open, go ahead and achieve them Babar and Rizwan

Then talk to me.

You can't be great if you don't win silverware for your country.

 

[Rana]

You can't be great if you don't win silverware for your country.

Babar will be a great.

Rizwan will always remain useless.

 

[PakEngFan]

Babar will be a great.

Rizwan will always remain useless.

So you concede and changed goal posts? From being you can't be great without silverware to now you can be

 

[Rana]

From being you can't be great without silverware to now you can be

I concede that you only want one or two individuals to do well

 

[PakEngFan]

I concede that you are not sincere to Pakistan cricket and only want one or two individuals to do well

Thanks for coming since you have conceded. Forget me being sincere with Pakistan cricket, you are not sincere with yourself and your views.

 

[RyanRyan10]

While Imad is a slightly better player than Nawaz that doesn’t say much lol. This sudden over emphasis on what a great player Imad was is hilarious when he was nothing more than an average cricketer rarely capable of anything special.

@topspin does think that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan and Asif Ali should be the captain, as well have seemingly having to mention Misbah every 5 seconds. So I do take anything he says about cricket with a large dose of salt.

Imad was a good T20 player. His economy rate of 6.27 is one of the best in T20Is and he averaged 21. These numbers are excellent even for a strike spinner. His batting was bonus.

In Odis, he was average overall but most teams have always carried such utility players in their line ups. His batting was good in this format and he was also a good defensive bowler.

Imad was statistically better than Nawaz and also had better temperament. Imad might have not played even half the number of games for Pakistan if it was 90s but at the time he made his debut, Pakistan were languishing in the same tier as SL, WI. Imad played an important role in Pakistan's brilliant run in T20Is under Sarfaraz. Nawaz has no such contribution for Pakistan cricket.

 

[topspin]

Don’t put words in my brother @topspin ‘s mouth. He didn’t say Asif Ali should be captain of Pakistan, nor has he ever endorsed or promoted the idea that Sharjeel should open for Pakistan. That’s me. I endorse that belief. I’m not one of those who makes dumb statements like “Fakhar should bat at 4 because Hafeez figured it out”, or “Shaheen is the guy that made everyone forget who Amir is”.

My view on cricket is simple. Direct. No ifs, no buts.

Asif Ali is a good candidate to be captain because he plays for his team first, instead of himself. What’s wrong with this claim?

Sharjeel Khan and Fakhar Zaman should open for Pakistan in T20 cricket because truly they are two or the best ever T20 openers that can match the modern standards of SENA and Indian sides. What’s wrong with that claim?

Much love bro. It genuinely brings me so much joy to see one of Imad's biggest haters have so much trouble in digesting the facts, that he has had to go down the path of spreading lies about me to get @RyanRyan10 on his side. I'm glad he said what he did because he just exposed himself.

It reminds me of a line from French Montana, "when the hate don't work they start telling lies"

@VForVendetta was right when he said this love affair with Rizbar are mostly from Misbah fans who celebrate such mediocrity and this is evident by those who liked his post. Not a single one of Imad's haters has been able to produce a single counter-argument to my list of Imad's list accomplishments because the truth hurts.

RizBar have let Pakistan down in the 2021 WT20 SF, 2022 Asia Cup Final, 2022 World T20 and the 2023 WC tournaments as a whole. Doesn't matter how many times it blows back in their faces, they never seem to learn.

 

[shamaan]

Imad is slightly better than Nawaz.

 

[topspin]

The argument that Babar should get most of the credit for Imad's PSL win, as captain, for Karachi Kings (KK) in 2020 is a flawed one and that can easily be debunked. Again, it stems from a deep rooted hatred of Imad.

Babar was captain in 2022 for KK. Not only did he lead his side to last place, but out of the 10 games they played, they managed just 1 win and lost all the other 9 games. For those who don't know, this is the worst ever showing in the history of PSL.

In an entire season of PSL:

• No other captain has lost as many games as Babar has done
• He's the only captain who's won less than two matches

It's safe to say if Babar was leading KK's team (instead of Imad) in 2020, the outcome would've been very different. If you don't see this, you are clearly living in denial.

It's got to the point where it's become blindingly obvious that Imad's haters will say anything to diminish and belittle whatever he's achieved in his career.

 

[Mamoon]

The argument that Babar should get most of the credit for Imad's PSL win, as captain, for Karachi Kings (KK) in 2020 is a flawed one and that can easily be debunked. Again, it stems from a deep rooted hatred of Imad.

Babar was captain in 2022 for KK. Not only did he lead his side to last place, but out of the 10 games they played, they managed just 1 win and lost all the other 9 games. For those who don't know, this is the worst ever showing in the history of PSL.

In an entire season of PSL:

• No other captain has lost as many games as Babar has done
• He's the only captain who's won less than two matches

It's safe to say if Babar was leading KK's team (instead of Imad) in 2020, the outcome would've been very different. If you don't see this, you are clearly living in denial.

It's got to the point where it's become blindingly obvious that Imad's haters will say anything to diminish and belittle whatever he's achieved in his career.

Imad Wasim’s success as captain, or Karachi’s success as a team, has always hinged on the performance of Babar.

In 2020, Babar had a stellar tournament and carried Imad and Karachi to the title.

In 2021, Babar had a less than impressive tournament and Imad and Karachi could only make the play-offs.

In 2022, Babar was the captain and he had an ordinary tournament and Karachi failed big time. This is what happens when you are super dependent on your best batsmen. If he fails, the ship sinks.

In 2023, Babar left for Peshawar and the great captain Imad took Karachi to a second last finish with 3 wins in 10 matches.

The bottom-line is that Karachi’s success or failure had nothing to do with Imad’s captaincy. He was a non-entity. The only determining factor for Karachi’s performance has always been the performance of their star batsman and best player Babar.

When Babar played well, Karachi did well. When Babar didn’t play well, Karachi failed.

Last year was a golden opportunity for the great cricketing mind Imad to show that him and his franchise were not carried by Babar and he failed with flying colors, finishing below Babar’s Peshawar.

 

[Rana]

Imad Wasim’s success as captain, or Karachi’s success as a team, has always hinged on the performance of Babar.

So it was a big blunder to remove Imad as captain and give the reigns to Babar. Babar should just be quiet and does what he does, get his head down and bat. Let the guy who knows his team captain.

 

[Mamoon]

So it was a big blunder to remove Imad as captain and give the reigns to Babar. Babar should just be quiet and does what he does, get his head down and bat. Let the guy who knows his team captain.

It wasn’t a big blunder because Karachi owners knew that Imad’s captaincy had no value. The only determining factor was the performance of Babar.

It also made absolutely no sense for the all format Pakistan captain and bigger star to not captain a PSL franchise when you had players like Shadab, Sohail Akhtar and others captaining teams.

It was absolutely the correct decision to make Babar captain. Imad had the chance to prove his franchise wrong last year but he showed that they were justified in removing him.

 

[Rana]

wasn’t a big blunder because Karachi owners knew that Imad’s captaincy had no value.

How could you know his captaincy had no value if he just won the tournament the season before? And how do they 100% know Babar’s captaincy has value over Imad’s?

Babar messed it up for himself by accepting the role when he knew Imad was a good leader for KK. It’s no one’s birth right to become captain. Nor should one ever pursue this role out of selfishness and self promotion. Babar did that, he paid the price massively as @topspin pointed out. The cycle is repeating itself now with Shan Masood ditching the only franchise willing to invest in him in order to pursue captaincy. Look at how this is turning out.

 

[topspin]

So it was a big blunder to remove Imad as captain and give the reigns to Babar. Babar should just be quiet and does what he does, get his head down and bat. Let the guy who knows his team captain.

This is exactly the point.

People also forget that Wasim Akram had requested for Babar to give up his opening slot to bat at 3 for the greater good of the team but he refused. He was proven right as it's now widely accepted that Babar isn't good enough to open. Babar has finally come to terms with this and has now surrendered his opening slot and is now batting at 3 for Pakistan in T20Is.

Wasim Akram also mentioned that Babar is insecure and plays for himself:

All of these things begin at the top. And at the top is your captain. If your captain plays for himself and is insecure. If your captain scores runs and lets other batters play at his position, you get to know that your captain is ready to sacrifice himself for you, this Babar has to learn.

Karachi Kings's were not hinged on Babar's performance with the bat but were in fact hindered by Babar's selfishness, so he had to axed from the team. This is evident by the fact that Imad's KK managed to win more games and finish higher up in the table in the following year despite the fact that he had an even weaker batting line-up.

 

[topspin]

How could you know his captaincy had no value if he just won the tournament the season before? And how do they 100% know Babar’s captaincy has value over Imad’s?

Babar messed it up for himself by accepting the role when he knew Imad was a good leader for KK. It’s no one’s birth right to become captain. Nor should one ever pursue this role out of selfishness and self promotion. Babar did that, he paid the price massively as @topspin pointed out. The cycle is repeating itself now with Shan Masood ditching the only franchise willing to invest in him in order to pursue captaincy. Look at how this is turning out.

For one to claim that Imad's captaincy had "no value" and to blatantly take away the credit he deserves in KK's 2020 successful campaign is just disingenuous and boorish.

But, this was a predictable response from an individual who vouched for Babar's captaincy during the Sarfraz era. But what's even more delusional is the fact that he continues to back Babar as his choice of captain for Pakistan's team.

When we look at the importance of a good captain. A good case in point is RCB in the IPL. They had a star studded line-up with the best batting line-up throughout the 2010s, which featured the likes of Kohli, Gayle and AB de Villiers. They all performed with the bat, however they still somehow failed to win the IPL from 2013 until 2021 under Kohli's captaincy. This obviously comes as no surprise because Kohli was a serial failure as white ball captain.

It all goes back to what Wasim Akram said "All of these things begin at the top. And at the top is your captain". A captain who can function is the foundation of success for any T20I team. Yes, you need your batsmen and bowlers to perform, which is exactly what Babar did in 2020. However, if your captain is incompetent like Babar is, the team will always crumble, as we witnessed during Babar's horror shows for KK in 2022 and on numerous occasions for Pakistan.

 

[topspin]

Babar messed it up for himself by accepting the role when he knew Imad was a good leader for KK.

Babar has been called out for being insecure. It does make me wonder whether Babar's decision to keep Imad excluded from Pakistan's white ball teams came from a place of jealousy and insecurity.

 

[Rana]

Babar has been called out for being insecure. It does make me wonder whether Babar's decision to keep Imad excluded from Pakistan's white ball teams came from a place of jealousy and insecurity.

Whilst it’s unfortunate that Imad has suffered because of this, it’s not like Babar has not been paying every day, or at least the last couple of years for his poor, selfish choices and decisions as a leader.

2-3 years of unchecked power, destroying people’s careers etc. what did he get at the end of it? Just an absolute tarnishing of a legacy that was actually building up nicely before his decision to accept captaincy of Pakistan, and screwing Imad out of captaincy for KK.

He can live with it now, he made his bed which he will have to sleep in it. People will not forget the humiliation we have suffered to top of his 4 year period at the CW2023. Well done for the odd good results I guess, the win against India in 2021 deserves credit. But that’s it, nothing else to show for it.

 

[Mamoon]

Karachi Kings's were not hinged on Babar's performance with the bat but were in fact hindered by Babar's selfishness, so he had to axed from the team. This is evident by the fact that Imad's KK managed to win more games and finish higher up in the table in the following year despite the fact that he had an even weaker batting line-up.

In 2020, the only time the great captain Imad laid his hands on the PSL trophy, Babar completely dominated the tournament. He was the highest run getter and the next highest run getter trailed him by 150 runs.

He was the only Karachi player to feature in the top performers. The second highest run getter from Karachi (Hales) was 8th on the list and 200 runs behind Babar. The highest wicket taker from Karachi (Amir) was 10th on the list.

Yes, this is the output of someone who was "hindering" his franchise.

"finish higher up in the table"? You are acting as Imad won Karachi the Champions League the next season after Babar left for Peshawar. Karachi under the great leadership of Imad and free of Babar's selfishness finished second last with only 3 wins out of 10.

Peshawar, now hindered by Babar's selfishness like Karachi before them, finished higher in the table.

Deluded Imad fans peddled two narratives that were both destroyed last year thanks to Karachi's humiliating performance. Narrative #1: "Babar's selfishness was holding Karachi back" and narrative #2: "Imad is a great captain".

If Babar's selfishness was holding Karachi back (yes, lets ignore 2020 because it is inconvenient) and if Imad was a great captain, Karachi wouldn't have done the following:



Le Karachi free from the selfishness of Babar and blessed with the great captaincy of Imad.

 

[Mamoon]

How could you know his captaincy had no value if he just won the tournament the season before? And how do they 100% know Babar’s captaincy has value over Imad’s?

Because Karachi's fate has depended on Babar's performance.

2020: Babar was sensational, Karachi lifted the trophy.
2021: Babar was not so good, Karachi limped into the play-offs and got eliminated
2022: Imad replaced as captain, with the Karachi owners knowing that if Imad was that good a captain, he would have got the best out of his team in 2021 in spite of Babar not performing very well.

Their decision to back Babar as captain over Imad was vindicated when Babar left for Peshawar and did a better job as captain than Imad did in 2023, although Babar wasn't too great himself.

Lets not forget that Imad was Karachi captain in 2018 and 2019 as well, before Babar had really come into his own as a top class player, and Karachi never made the final let alone win the PSL.

Imad captained Karachi for 4 seasons. Only made the finals and won once when Babar was unstoppable form. That clearly suggests that his great leadership was a myth and Babar carried him to his one and only title.

Therefore, it wasn't the wrong call for Karachi to make Babar the captain because Imad's leadership had zero value.

Babar messed it up for himself by accepting the role when he knew Imad was a good leader for KK. It’s no one’s birth right to become captain. Nor should one ever pursue this role out of selfishness and self promotion. Babar did that, he paid the price massively as @topspin pointed out. The cycle is repeating itself now with Shan Masood ditching the only franchise willing to invest in him in order to pursue captaincy. Look at how this is turning out.

What good leader? Babar knew the fraud that Imad was and how the team was dependent on his bat and not on Imad's mythical leadership.

 

[Rana]

Because Karachi's fate has depended on Babar's performance.

2020: Babar was sensational, Karachi lifted the trophy.
2021: Babar was not so good, Karachi limped into the play-offs and got eliminated
2022: Imad replaced as captain, with the Karachi owners knowing that if Imad was that good a captain, he would have got the best out of his team in 2021 in spite of Babar not performing very well.

Their decision to back Babar as captain over Imad was vindicated when Babar left for Peshawar and did a better job as captain than Imad did in 2023, although Babar wasn't too great himself.

Lets not forget that Imad was Karachi captain in 2018 and 2019 as well, before Babar had really come into his own as a top class player, and Karachi never made the final let alone win the PSL.

Imad captained Karachi for 4 seasons. Only made the finals and won once when Babar was unstoppable form. That clearly suggests that his great leadership was a myth and Babar carried him to his one and only title.

Therefore, it wasn't the wrong call for Karachi to make Babar the captain because Imad's leadership had zero value.

What good leader? Babar knew the fraud that Imad was and how the team was dependent on his bat and not on Imad's mythical leadership.

Still, how does a PSL winning captain not get a second year to run his side the following year as captain? Did LQ remove Aqib the year he won the PSL? What’s the point of winning it only to be removed the following year?

If Babar really wanted captaincy, PCB could have easily got him adjusted with a franchise and pull a few strings for him. Multan had Shan Masood as captain at the time, Babar could easily have gone to them as their captain. Why take captaincy away from a guy that has just won the PSL?

 

[topspin]

Whilst it’s unfortunate that Imad has suffered because of this, it’s not like Babar has not been paying every day, or at least the last couple of years for his poor, selfish choices and decisions as a leader.

2-3 years of unchecked power, destroying people’s careers etc. what did he get at the end of it? Just an absolute tarnishing of a legacy that was actually building up nicely before his decision to accept captaincy of Pakistan, and screwing Imad out of captaincy for KK.

He can live with it now, he made his bed which he will have to sleep in it. People will not forget the humiliation we have suffered to top of his 4 year period at the CW2023. Well done for the odd good results I guess, the win against India in 2021 deserves credit. But that’s it, nothing else to show for it.

Things could've been so different if Babar instead focussed on himself. All that should've mattered to him is his batting and his fitness. He knew he wasn't fit to captain which is why he was so desperate to form his own clique because he was insecure and lacked the confidence to back himself, so instead needed his cult followers to do it for him. A fine example of this were the cringe social media hashtags, such as "sochna bhi mana hai" used by the likes of Shaheen and co. The team was never going to thrive in that environment.

Babar was reduced to tears after the humiliation against Afghanistan in the 2023 WC but I had no sympathy for him because as you said, he made his bed and he will have to sleep in it. Imad was the difference when these two sides played during the previous ODI WC, so for me it was divine justice served. That's not how you an treat an in form player. For him to be excluded in favour of Nawaz was unforgivable.

 

[Rana]

Things could've been so different if Babar instead focussed on himself. All that should've mattered to him is his batting and his fitness. He knew he wasn't fit to captain which is why he was so desperate to form his own clique because he was insecure and lacked the confidence to back himself, so instead needed his cult followers to do it for him. A fine example of this were the cringe social media hashtags, such as "sochna bhi mana hai" used by the likes of Shaheen and co. The team was never going to thrive in that environment.

Babar was reduced to tears after the humiliation against Afghanistan in the 2023 WC but I had no sympathy for him because as you said, he made his bed and he will have to sleep in it. Imad was the difference when these two sides played during the previous ODI WC, so for me it was divine justice served. That's not how you an treat an in form player. For him to be excluded in favour of Nawaz was unforgivable.

Yeah I mean I find it astonishing how Babar suddenly is being shoved down our throats again as some kind of Eoin Morgan…but the guy has an even worse captaincy record than Sohail Akhtar in PSL. Already in this tournament, his PZ side were absolutely MAULED to the ground by the worst ever assembled squad in the history of all franchise cricket (Karachi Kings). I have no doubt that the same fate awaits PZ when they face Karachi again. Shan just being 15-20 years more educated than him will be enough to beat Babar Azam, even though realistically Shan Masood is not built to play T20 cricket himself

 

[Rana]

Things could've been so different if Babar instead focussed on himself. All that should've mattered to him is his batting and his fitness. He knew he wasn't fit to captain which is why he was so desperate to form his own clique because he was insecure and lacked the confidence to back himself, so instead needed his cult followers to do it for him. A fine example of this were the cringe social media hashtags, such as "sochna bhi mana hai" used by the likes of Shaheen and co. The team was never going to thrive in that environment.

Babar was reduced to tears after the humiliation against Afghanistan in the 2023 WC but I had no sympathy for him because as you said, he made his bed and he will have to sleep in it. Imad was the difference when these two sides played during the previous ODI WC, so for me it was divine justice served. That's not how you an treat an in form player. For him to be excluded in favour of Nawaz was unforgivable.

You also have to remember bro,

Babar isn’t exactly captaining PZ at the moment. The only thing he has power over is his own batting position and the authority to go and do the toss for the side. The guy who is making all the decisions on the field is Darren Sammy (as a coach lol). We’ve seen what Babar is capable of when having to do all the thinking, which is basically nothing really.

 

[topspin]

I would never trust the judgement of someone who continues to back the likes of Ahmed Shehzad, Imam-ul-Haq and the captaincy of Babar Azam. I can't decide which one of these is the most deluded take.

"Imad's leadership had zero value" is a merely an escaping mechanism, for you to avoid acknowledging that Imad is the superior leader over Babar. I don't expect you to have the cojones to admit nor deny this because you're in a no win situation. Either way it will expose your credibility in such matters. If you choose to admit it, you will have to swallow up your pride and accept that you were some ignoramus to vouch for Babar's captaincy during the Sarfraz era. If you choose to deny it, your track record of delusion will become even more apparent than what it already is.

Babar has captained in the PSL and also for Pakistan U19s and national side. Despite all these opportunities, he's been nothing short of a serial failure. But you still want him back as Pakistan's captain? Great logic!

Babar has scored countless runs in bilaterals but he's never won anything under his own leadership because yes his captaincy would always hinder the team. There's no two ways about it. The only time a Pakistan or a PSL side, featuring Babar, has tasted silverware is when Babar wasn't captain. I wonder why?

Imad hasn't had anywhere near as many opportunities to win something but has still managed to win the PSL. To think that Babar would've have won that tournament if he was the captain is just a fantasy.

No other PSL captain has taken their franchise to a record low like Babar Azam has. He's the only captain to-date who has failed to win fewer than 2 matches and lose a grand total of 9 matches in an entire season of PSL.

BUT BUT BUT

"Babar should return as captain for Pakistan and Imad's leadership has zero value" .

 

[topspin]

Yeah I mean I find it astonishing how Babar suddenly is being shoved down our throats again as some kind of Eoin Morgan…but the guy has an even worse captaincy record than Sohail Akhtar in PSL. Already in this tournament, his PZ side were absolutely MAULED to the ground by the worst ever assembled squad in the history of all franchise cricket (Karachi Kings). I have no doubt that the same fate awaits PZ when they face Karachi again. Shan just being 15-20 years more educated than him will be enough to beat Babar Azam, even though realistically Shan Masood is not built to play T20 cricket himself

I'm not sure what's worse, having a worse captaincy record than Sohail Akhtar in the PSL or taking a PSL franchise to a record low with one win and nine losses?

 

[topspin]

You also have to remember bro,

Babar isn’t exactly captaining PZ at the moment. The only thing he has power over is his own batting position and the authority to go and do the toss for the side. The guy who is making all the decisions on the field is Darren Sammy (as a coach lol). We’ve seen what Babar is capable of when having to do all the thinking, which is basically nothing really.

It just proves how selfishness and how inept his captaincy really is. There's no way he would of joined PZ if he wasn't going to be allowed to captain the side.

If PZ fall short of winning the PSL this season, you would think the PZ's management and owners will finally realise that he's going to hold them back as captain right? Babar will have to accept the same fate like he's done recently when he's had to "relinquish" his captaincy of the Pakistan side.

Babar Azam should leave captaincy for the big tournaments like the Ramadhan Cup. You remember him participating in that last year?

 

[Rana]

I'm not sure what's worse, having a worse captaincy record than Sohail Akhtar in the PSL or taking a PSL franchise to a record low with one win and nine losses?

Sohail Akhtar held his record captaining LQ when the PSL standards were a lot better than they are now. The quality of overseas players and even the national team players was much better than it is now. He’s made fun of, but Babar keeps on getting more and more chances to further humiliate himself. His side in the SPL also finished last just before the WC…also, we cannot forget how no team in the Hundred wanted to invest in him or his mate Rizwan. 2022/23 has been a nightmare year for him.

 

[Rana]

It just proves how selfishness and how inept his captaincy really is. There's no way he would of joined PZ if he wasn't going to be allowed to captain the side.

If PZ fall short of winning the PSL this season, you would think the PZ's management and owners will finally realise that he's going to hold them back as captain right? Babar will have to accept the same fate like he's done recently when he's had to "relinquish" his captaincy of the Pakistan side.

Babar Azam should leave captaincy for the big tournaments like the Ramadhan Cup. You remember him participating in that last year?

Tbh bro I wouldn’t be surprised if his mate Rizwan throws the game against PZ by picking a bunch of newbies for Babar to feed on and get through to the play offs. All of his team are filled with guys who worship the floor Babar walks on.

They all work together, scratching each other’s backs. It would be a Saya Corporation dream for PZ and Multan to play the final of the PSL, and the winner and loser will both be winners in this friendship

 

[topspin]

Sohail Akhtar held his record captaining LQ when the PSL standards were a lot better than they are now. The quality of overseas players and even the national team players was much better than it is now. He’s made fun of, but Babar keeps on getting more and more chances to further humiliate himself. His side in the SPL also finished last just before the WC…also, we cannot forget how no team in the Hundred wanted to invest in him or his mate Rizwan. 2022/23 has been a nightmare year for him.

Sure, Sohail Akhtar took LQ to last place but that record belongs to Babar. No team in the entire history of PSL has finished the group stage with just one win like KK did in 2022.

But you're absolutely right about the overseas talent being far inferior these days. Do you think it's time for the PSL to be played in the same window as IPL, and just take the best crop of IPL rejects?

 

[topspin]

Tbh bro I wouldn’t be surprised if his mate Rizwan throws the game against PZ by picking a bunch of newbies for Babar to feed on and get through to the play offs. All of his team are filled with guys who worship the floor Babar walks on.

They all work together, scratching each other’s backs. It would be a Saya Corporation dream for PZ and Multan to play the final of the PSL, and the winner and loser will both be winners in this friendship

Rizwan would have to be in role and make sure his acting is top notch on that day. Can't let anyone suspect what's going on

 

[CerebralPatriot]

Imad as captain is ten times the leader Babar or Rizwan can dream to be.

It's funny seeing all this revisionism in regards to his captaincy when the truth is quite simple. If having the top run getter of the series in our squad guarantees a PSL trophy than Multan would have had the last two PSL titles. However truth is impact matters much more than runs and when impactless players like Babar and Rizwan are topping the run charts, more harm than benefit is being done to their respective teams.

Imad's leadership was the sole reason behind Karachi's win not Babar's stat padding. In 2021 he was given a weak squad with trundlers like Abbas Afridi and Arshad Iqbal leading the bowling line up. Despite such difficult hurdles, Imad was able to take his team into the play offs and lost a nail biter to a much better Peshawar squad.

Despite that, Salman Iqbal stabbed him in the back and bought in Babar mainly to appease his legion of fans. The results of that decision are there to see as @topspin mentioned

In 2023 Imad was once again given to misfortune to lead a side which included washed up TTFs like Imran Tahir and Mathew Wade. Despite inheriting an even worse squad, Imad was able to do comparatively better than Babar.

At the end of the day facts are facts and the fact is Imad Wasim is a PSL winning captain whereas Babar Azam is a serial loser who has failed to take Peshawar into a single final as well as failed to win Pakistan any silverware despite being given 5 tournaments (took Saifi Bhai only one)

 

[Mamoon]

View attachment 142460

Le Karachi free from the selfishness of Babar and blessed with the great captaincy of Imad.

This is the “leadership value” of Imad

Imad cannot win anything as captain without Babar carrying him.

PSL 2023 was the ultimate low blow for Imad and his cult. Both of the following myths were disproved:

Myth 1: Babar’s selfishness was holding Karachi back

Myth 2: Imad is a great captain who doesn’t need Babar

The fact that Babar’s Peshawar finished above Imad’s Karachi added insult to injury.

Babar has been called out for being insecure. It does make me wonder whether Babar's decision to keep Imad excluded from Pakistan's white ball teams came from a place of jealousy and insecurity.

Babar jealous and insecure of Imad is like saying that a Ferrari is jealous of an auto rickshaw.

It is time to show Imad cult their station. You need to wake up my friend. Babar is one of the greatest players Pakistan has ever produced while Imad is a nobody.

Imad is not fit to lace his boots and he won’t leave behind 10% of the legacy Babar will leave behind when he retires.

 

[Mamoon]

Still, how does a PSL winning captain not get a second year to run his side the following year as captain? Did LQ remove Aqib the year he won the PSL? What’s the point of winning it only to be removed the following year?

If Babar really wanted captaincy, PCB could have easily got him adjusted with a franchise and pull a few strings for him. Multan had Shan Masood as captain at the time, Babar could easily have gone to them as their captain. Why take captaincy away from a guy that has just won the PSL?

What are you talking about?

Imad captained Karachi to victory in 2020 and was removed as captain in 2022.

He was the captain in 2021, the year after he won trophy, so he was given the chance to defend the trophy.

In 2021, Karachi limped into the play-offs where they lost to Zalmi.

Karachi and Imad were as usual carried by Babar who was the top scorer and best player as always, scoring 554 runs at an average of 69 and SR of 130.

The second highest scorer for Karachi (Sharjeel) was 200 runs behind.

In terms of wickets, not a single Karachi played feature in the top 15. It was a one man show by Babar and he was the reason why Karachi and Imad even made the play-offs.

As player, Imad was utter rubbish that year and probably their worst player. If he wasn’t playing, perhaps Babar could have carried Karachi to back to back PSL trophies.

Imad in 2021:

Batting average 13, SR 104

Bowling average 34, ER 7.7


This is why Imad was sacked as captain after that season. He clearly had no credit left in the bank from 2020.

By 2023, it was clear that due to Imad’s jealously and hatred for Babar, the two couldn’t play together and Karachi shot themselves in the foot by trading Babar and retaining Imad.

What did they gain?

A second last finish with Babar’s Peshawar finishing above them. One year later, they ended up discarding Imad anyway and are now being led by Mr. Zero Talent when they could still have had Babar in their team who carried them for years and also carried them to their one and only PSL title.

If Karachi had any sense, they would have booted Imad out after the disastrous showing of 2021 or kept Babar instead of Imad in 2023.

Last year was Imad’s chance to show Karachi that they were right to back him over Babar but the great cricketing mind led his team to a second last finish and they got so annoyed with him they ended up kicking him out the next season which was the ultimate L for Imad and his supporters.

@topspin

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I like Imad. He was an above average player and in hindsight may have been better than Mohammed Nawaz.

He probably does have a cricketing brain relative to Mohammed Nawaz.

At one point he could have been a legit contendor for Pakistan T20 captaincy.

But he has let himself down badly in recent times with his conduct and his game has suffered too. In recent times he is the propped up candidate for people to try and attack Babar from another angle. Therefore its good to see @Mamoon expose this line of thinking and put the Imad cult to bed.

 

[Mamoon]

Imad as captain is ten times the leader Babar or Rizwan can dream to be.

Easy to make such hyperbolic statements when you don't need to back it up. You didn't need to stop at ten - you could have said that Imad is a billion times better than captain than Babar and Rizwan.

It's funny seeing all this revisionism in regards to his captaincy when the truth is quite simple. If having the top run getter of the series in our squad guarantees a PSL trophy than Multan would have had the last two PSL titles. However truth is impact matters much more than runs and when impactless players like Babar and Rizwan are topping the run charts, more harm than benefit is being done to their respective teams.

The only revisionism is Imad's cult pretending that Babar didn't carry Imad and Karachi on his back for years. As far as the truth is concerned, I agree that the truth is simple. The truth is that Babar is the reason why Karachi won the PSL in 2020, not Imad.

Impactless runs? Babar scored 473 runs in PSL 2020, 148 runs more than the second highest run getter (Fakhar).

He scored an unbeaten 63 in the final to take Karachi to the title. The only batsman in the team who could score more than 25 runs. Yes, Imad's 10 in 7 balls and Chadwick Walton's 22 in 27 balls had a bigger "impact" on the game.



This was Babar's "impactless" knock in the PSL final. He won the Man of the Match as well as the Man of the Tournament because he was "impactless".

As per delusional Pakistani fans, the less runs you score, the more "impactful" you are. The more runs you score, the more "selfish" you are.

As far as Rizwan is concerned, has been a very high impact player for Multan. Since joining Multan in 2021, he has consistently been one of the highest scorers and his runs are one of the major reasons why Multan is always in contention of winning the title.

2021: Rizwan second highest scorer, Multan win the tournament.
2022: Rizwan second highest scorer, Multan finish runners up.
2023: Rizwan highest scorer, Multan finish runners up.

Since Rizwan joined Multan in 2021, Multan has never finished below runners up and have won a title and he has never finished outside the top two in terms of runs. The 1,596 runs that he has scored for Multan in three editions has had a huge impact on Multan's consistency and capacity to always be in the final.

Before Rizwan joined Multan in 2021, they had played three seasons and never made the finals.

Multan before Rizwan:

2018: Finished second last
2019: Finished second last
2020: Lost Eliminator

Multan after Rizwan:

2021: Champions
2022: Runner up
2023: Runner up

Please remind us once again how Rizwan's runs have been impactless for Multan?

Imad's leadership was the sole reason behind Karachi's win not Babar's stat padding.

I just destroyed this narrative above.

In 2021 he was given a weak squad with trundlers like Abbas Afridi and Arshad Iqbal leading the bowling line up. Despite such difficult hurdles, Imad was able to take his team into the play offs and lost a nail biter to a much better Peshawar squad.

The reason why Karachi made the play-offs was because Babar, as always, carried them on his back by scoring 554 runs, the highest in the tournament and 200 more than the second highest scorer for Karachi, Sharjeel.

The reason why Babar couldn't take Karachi all the way in back to back tournaments was because Imad had stank up the entire PSL with his pathetic performances.

Batting average 13, SR 104

Bowling average 34, ER 7.7

Cult fans would tell you that with this output, Imad had a bigger "impact" than Babar.

Despite that, Salman Iqbal stabbed him in the back and bought in Babar mainly to appease his legion of fans. The results of that decision are there to see as @topspin mentioned

Salman Iqbal knew that Imad's leadership was a scam and Karachi was being carried by Babar's bat. Since Babar was the Pakistan captain and the biggest star, it made no sense to have Imad captain over him when Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar's boots.

But Salman Iqbal shot himself in the foot when he traded Babar in 2023 and kept Imad and there results were there for everyone to see: Imad's team finished second last and even below Babar's Peshawar even though, Imad cult fans would tell you that he is a 10x better captain than Babar.

Salman Iqbal was so furious with his stupidity that he ended up kicking Imad out of his team this year and his team is now being led by Masood, the worst batsman in Pakistan cricket history whereas he could still have had Babar in his team had he made the right call in 2023.

In 2023 Imad was once again given to misfortune to lead a side which included washed up TTFs like Imran Tahir and Mathew Wade. Despite inheriting an even worse squad, Imad was able to do comparatively better than Babar.

Babar had a pretty poor squad too last year with Peshawar and the results weren't great but he still managed to finish above Imad's Karachi. What happened to Imad's 10x superior captaincy skills?

At the end of the day facts are facts and the fact is Imad Wasim is a PSL winning captain whereas Babar Azam is a serial loser who has failed to take Peshawar into a single final as well as failed to win Pakistan any silverware despite being given 5 tournaments (took Saifi Bhai only one)

The facts are the following:

1. Babar is the best batsman in history of PSL.
2. Babar carried Imad and Karachi on his back for years.
3. Babar is the reason why Imad won a PSL as captain.
4. Babar captained Peshawar to a higher finish last year than Imad's Karachi
5. Babar is a 100x greater cricketer than Imad and Imad is not worthy of lacing his boots.

 

[PakEngFan]

Easy to make such hyperbolic statements when you don't need to back it up. You didn't need to stop at ten - you could have said that Imad is a billion times better than captain than Babar and Rizwan.

The only revisionism is Imad's cult pretending that Babar didn't carry Imad and Karachi on his back for years. As far as the truth is concerned, I agree that the truth is simple. The truth is that Babar is the reason why Karachi won the PSL in 2020, not Imad.

Impactless runs? Babar scored 473 runs in PSL 2020, 148 runs more than the second highest run getter (Fakhar).

He scored an unbeaten 63 in the final to take Karachi to the title. The only batsman in the team who could score more than 25 runs. Yes, Imad's 10 in 7 balls and Chadwick Walton's 22 in 27 balls had a bigger "impact" on the game.

View attachment 142465

This was Babar's "impactless" knock in the PSL final. He won the Man of the Match as well as the Man of the Tournament because he was "impactless".

As per delusional Pakistani fans, the less runs you score, the more "impactful" you are. The more runs you score, the more "selfish" you are.

As far as Rizwan is concerned, has been a very high impact player for Multan. Since joining Multan in 2021, he has consistently been one of the highest scorers and his runs are one of the major reasons why Multan is always in contention of winning the title.

2021: Rizwan second highest scorer, Multan win the tournament.
2022: Rizwan second highest scorer, Multan finish runners up.
2023: Rizwan highest scorer, Multan finish runners up.

Since Rizwan joined Multan in 2021, Multan has never finished below runners up and have won a title and he has never finished outside the top two in terms of runs. The 1,596 runs that he has scored for Multan in three editions has had a huge impact on Multan's consistency and capacity to always be in the final.

Before Rizwan joined Multan in 2021, they had played three seasons and never made the finals.

Multan before Rizwan:

2018: Finished second last
2019: Finished second last
2020: Lost Eliminator

Multan after Rizwan:

2021: Champions
2022: Runner up
2023: Runner up

Please remind us once again how Rizwan's runs have been impactless for Multan?

I just destroyed this narrative above.

The reason why Karachi made the play-offs was because Babar, as always, carried them on his back by scoring 554 runs, the highest in the tournament and 200 more than the second highest scorer for Karachi, Sharjeel.

The reason why Babar couldn't take Karachi all the way in back to back tournaments was because Imad had stank up the entire PSL with his pathetic performances.

Batting average 13, SR 104

Bowling average 34, ER 7.7

Cult fans would tell you that with this output, Imad had a bigger "impact" than Babar.


Salman Iqbal knew that Imad's leadership was a scam and Karachi was being carried by Babar's bat. Since Babar was the Pakistan captain and the biggest star, it made no sense to have Imad captain over him when Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar's boots.

But Salman Iqbal shot himself in the foot when he traded Babar in 2023 and kept Imad and there results were there for everyone to see: Imad's team finished second last and even below Babar's Peshawar even though, Imad cult fans would tell you that he is a 10x better captain than Babar.

Salman Iqbal was so furious with his stupidity that he ended up kicking Imad out of his team this year and his team is now being led by Masood, the worst batsman in Pakistan cricket history whereas he could still have had Babar in his team had he made the right call in 2023.

Babar had a pretty poor squad too last year with Peshawar and the results weren't great but he still managed to finish above Imad's Karachi. What happened to Imad's 10x superior captaincy skills?

The facts are the following:

1. Babar is the best batsman in history of PSL.
2. Babar carried Imad and Karachi on his back for years.
3. Babar is the reason why Imad won a PSL as captain.
4. Babar captained Peshawar to a higher finish last year than Imad's Karachi
5. Babar is a 100x greater cricketer than Imad and Imad is not worthy of lacing his boots.

Potw. There is no comeback from this for Imad fans, well at least not a logical one.

 

[shamaan]

Imad as captain is ten times the leader Babar or Rizwan can dream to be.

It's funny seeing all this revisionism in regards to his captaincy when the truth is quite simple. If having the top run getter of the series in our squad guarantees a PSL trophy than Multan would have had the last two PSL titles. However truth is impact matters much more than runs and when impactless players like Babar and Rizwan are topping the run charts, more harm than benefit is being done to their respective teams.

Imad's leadership was the sole reason behind Karachi's win not Babar's stat padding. In 2021 he was given a weak squad with trundlers like Abbas Afridi and Arshad Iqbal leading the bowling line up. Despite such difficult hurdles, Imad was able to take his team into the play offs and lost a nail biter to a much better Peshawar squad.

Despite that, Salman Iqbal stabbed him in the back and bought in Babar mainly to appease his legion of fans. The results of that decision are there to see as @topspin mentioned

In 2023 Imad was once again given to misfortune to lead a side which included washed up TTFs like Imran Tahir and Mathew Wade. Despite inheriting an even worse squad, Imad was able to do comparatively better than Babar.

At the end of the day facts are facts and the fact is Imad Wasim is a PSL winning captain whereas Babar Azam is a serial loser who has failed to take Peshawar into a single final as well as failed to win Pakistan any silverware despite being given 5 tournaments (took Saifi Bhai only one)

Have you seen Rizwan bowling attack in last year psl and this year psl.

 

[Rana]

Potw. There is no comeback from this for Imad fans, well at least not a logical one.

Imad Wasim as captain:

51 matches, won 23, Lost 24. W/L ratio: 0.95

Babar Azam as captain:

27 matches, won 9, Lost 18. W/L ratio:0.50

No logic in this?

 

[Rana]

For Babar to statistically overtake Imad as a better captain, he needs to avoid 6 more defeats and win 15 more matches

Until then, let’s not claim Imad’s captaincy is a scam and Babar biggest brand this that and whatever. Let the results do the talking.

 

[Mamoon]

Imad Wasim as captain:

51 matches, won 23, Lost 24. W/L ratio: 0.95

Babar Azam as captain:

27 matches, won 9, Lost 18. W/L ratio:0.50

No logic in this?

Imad Wasim as captain without Babar:

10 matches, won 3, lost 7. W/L ratio: 0.43

Babar as captain without Imad:

15 matches, won 8, lost 7. W/L ratio: 1.14

 

[Rana]

2. Babar carried Imad and Karachi on his back for years.

It’s a shame he couldn’t carry Pakistan with the so called best players available to him in the past few tournaments

 

[Rana]

Imad Wasim as captain without Babar:

10 matches, won 3, lost 7. W/L ratio: 0.43

Babar as captain without Imad:

15 matches, won 8, lost 7. W/L ratio: 1.14

I’m afraid there is no registered stat that records player’s captaincy records like this. Otherwise every good captain has pros and cons with or without key players

 

[Major]

@Mamoon one point will add that the PSL that karachi won was not a proper psl.

The main event ended due to covid, they than played a seperate event few months later with each team starting from 0 and with some new faces.

 

[Rana]

Imad Wasim as captain without Babar:

10 matches, won 3, lost 7. W/L ratio: 0.43

Babar as captain without Imad:

15 matches, won 8, lost 7. W/L ratio: 1.14

The other mistake you keep making is that Imad never got rid of Babar, Babar left KK out of his own choice. How is it Imad’s fault Babar didn’t want to stay?

 

[Mamoon]

It’s a shame he couldn’t carry Pakistan with the so called best players available to him in the past few tournaments

That is because his own form dipped. Babar's form has a huge impact on Pakistan's capacity to win ODIs and T20Is.

 

[Mamoon]

I’m afraid there is no registered stat that records player’s captaincy records like this. Otherwise every good captain has pros and cons with or without key players

Babar was a key player for Imad and Imad's captaincy is nothing without Babar carrying him. That is what the stats show.

 

[Mamoon]

@Mamoon one point will add that the PSL that karachi won was not a proper psl.

The main event ended due to covid, they than played a seperate event few months later with each team starting from 0 and with some new faces.

But it was the same situation for all teams, so we cannot take credit away from Babar carrying Karachi on his back to win the PSL.

 

[Mamoon]

The other mistake you keep making is that Imad never got rid of Babar, Babar left KK out of his own choice. How is it Imad’s fault Babar didn’t want to stay?

Mistake? I never said that Imad got rid for Babar. I said that the Karachi owners took the wrong side in 2023 and kept Imad while trading Babar. How did that turn out for Karachi?

Imad took them to a second last finish before he got kicked out and is now embarrassing himself in Islamabad, while Karachi is now being led by the worst batsman in Pakistan history.

Karachi went from opening with Babar to opening with Masood all thanks to poor decision making by the owners. Babar would still be with Karachi had they done the right thing by kicking out Imad in 2023, a year before they actually kicked him out.

 

[Rana]

That is because his own form dipped. Babar's form has a huge impact on Pakistan's capacity to win ODIs and T20Is.

Babar scored 900+ T20i runs in 2021

700+ T20i runs in 2022 and 130 runs at an average of 43 in 2023

Babar’s form dipped means he supposedly averages 70 odd if he is in form but it drops to 40 if he is out of form? I don’t think that’s the case. Babar’s form regardless has been the same, it’s what he banks on to survive as a T20 opener with his style of play. Let’s be honest here, he just isn’t a captain.

 

[Rana]

Mistake? I never said that Imad got rid for Babar. I said that the Karachi owners took the wrong side in 2023 and kept Imad while trading Babar. How did that turn out for Karachi?

Imad took them to a second last finish before he got kicked out and is now embarrassing himself in Islamabad, while Karachi is now being led by the worst batsman in Pakistan history.

Karachi went from opening with Babar to opening with Masood all thanks to poor decision making by the owners. Babar would still be with Karachi had they done the right thing by kicking out Imad in 2023, a year before they actually kicked him out.

It’s not as simple as that. Karachi didn’t take anyone’s side, and it wasn’t a choice between Babar or Imad. Babar wanted out as soon as Wasim Akram said on TV that Babar declined his suggestion to him to let Guptil open and he goes down to 3. That was where the rift began. Imad may have been sulking outside and doing his politics but the actual reason for Babar wanting to leave KK was Wasim Akram.

So what choice did the KK management have if they supposedly had one? Remove Wasim Akram (who is deeply connected in Karachi and their business hierarchy+brand ambassadors) to keep Babar happy? Especially after that horror season he had with 9 losses? No one sided with anyone, Babar left on his own accord and that’s why the Karachi Media turned on him and made his life a nightmare for the next two years leading into the Asia cup 2023 and the World Cup 2023.

It was Babar who betrayed Karachi. They destroyed a good, settled team under Imad to make Babar captain, and this is how he repays their faith in him? By deserting them having lost 9/10 games and leaving them in the dumps?

Yes Imad is an easy target now because he made some tall claims about changing the style of cricket in KK, but that was after Babar had left. Their rivalry isn’t administrative or political. It’s a pure cricketing rivalry and Imad’s opinion’s on Babar’s crap style of cricket are totally valid.

 

[Rana]

Babar was a key player for Imad and Imad's captaincy is nothing without Babar carrying him. That is what the stats show.

Maybe ask Imad who his key players were? What his key strategies were? We don’t deny Babar’s efforts, but what about the contributions of Sharjeel ensuring that their opening Pair gives them ideal starts with good powerplay scores?

What about Imad Wasim’s own contributions with the ball in the powerplay, for what he is renowned for and is the reason why he is hired all around the world for his services?

What about the fact that they had one of the best white ball pacers in Pakistan in Amir who is also one of the cleverest death bowlers going around in T20 cricket?

The fact that Alex Hales pumped 272 runs at an average of 45 and a sr of 148? Was Babar carrying him or he was cleaning up after Babar??

Chadwick Walton 170+ Runs with a sr of 140 where Imad needed him to bat and not crying to the media about wanting to open?

Imad himself 158 runs at an average of 40 and sr of 133. Was Babar holding his hand??

 

[Mamoon]

Babar scored 900+ T20i runs in 2021

700+ T20i runs in 2022 and 130 runs at an average of 43 in 2023

Babar’s form dipped means he supposedly averages 70 odd if he is in form but it drops to 40 if he is out of form? I don’t think that’s the case. Babar’s form regardless has been the same, it’s what he banks on to survive as a T20 opener with his style of play. Let’s be honest here, he just isn’t a captain.

I was not talking about T20Is here. I thought you were referring to Pakistan's performance in the 2023 World Cup where Babar flopped by all accounts. Babar flopping obviously had a major bearing on Pakistan's performance in the World Cup.

 

[Mamoon]

It’s not as simple as that. Karachi didn’t take anyone’s side, and it wasn’t a choice between Babar or Imad. Babar wanted out as soon as Wasim Akram said on TV that Babar declined his suggestion to him to let Guptil open and he goes down to 3. That was where the rift began. Imad may have been sulking outside and doing his politics but the actual reason for Babar wanting to leave KK was Wasim Akram.

So what choice did the KK management have if they supposedly had one? Remove Wasim Akram (who is deeply connected in Karachi and their business hierarchy+brand ambassadors) to keep Babar happy? Especially after that horror season he had with 9 losses? No one sided with anyone, Babar left on his own accord and that’s why the Karachi Media turned on him and made his life a nightmare for the next two years leading into the Asia cup 2023 and the World Cup 2023.

It was Babar who betrayed Karachi. They destroyed a good, settled team under Imad to make Babar captain, and this is how he repays their faith in him? By deserting them having lost 9/10 games and leaving them in the dumps?

Yes Imad is an easy target now because he made some tall claims about changing the style of cricket in KK, but that was after Babar had left. Their rivalry isn’t administrative or political. It’s a pure cricketing rivalry and Imad’s opinion’s on Babar’s crap style of cricket are totally valid.

Firstly, lets get something very clear. There is no cricketing rivalry between Babar and Imad. There is rivalry only when two players are of similar caliber.

What rivalry are we talking about? And it says a lot about Imad's character when he barks about Babar's playing style in T20s when the same playing style carried him and his team to the PSL title.

Imad has a toxic agenda against Babar because he blames him for ending his international career. There is no cricketing rivalry. Babar's playing style has not changed but Imad's agenda has - this is why prior to 2021, Imad was full of praise for Babar's playing style but after 2021, the same playing style suddenly became a problem. This is why Imad has no credibility.

Imad didn't have a problem with Babar's playing style when Babar was carrying him to the PSL trophy in 2020.

 

[Mamoon]

Maybe ask Imad who his key players were? What his key strategies were? We don’t deny Babar’s efforts, but what about the contributions of Sharjeel ensuring that their opening Pair gives them ideal starts with good powerplay scores?

What about Imad Wasim’s own contributions with the ball in the powerplay, for what he is renowned for and is the reason why he is hired all around the world for his services?

What about the fact that they had one of the best white ball pacers in Pakistan in Amir who is also one of the cleverest death bowlers going around in T20 cricket?

The fact that Alex Hales pumped 272 runs at an average of 45 and a sr of 148? Was Babar carrying him or he was cleaning up after Babar??

Chadwick Walton 170+ Runs with a sr of 140 where Imad needed him to bat and not crying to the media about wanting to open?

Imad himself 158 runs at an average of 40 and sr of 133. Was Babar holding his hand??

You combine the contributions of Sharjeel, Imad, Hales, Walton, Amir and pretty much all 10 players that year and they still pale in comparison to Babar's dominant performance in 2020. You don't need to look beyond the scorecard of the PSL final to understand what Babar did for that team.

Babar was the only Karachi batsman in the top 5 runs getter and Amir and Imad had forgettable tournaments, especially with the ball. Amir was Karachi's leading wicket-taker and was 10th on the list overall which clearly illustrates that Babar was carrying that team.

The fact that Imad has forgotten all of that and spits venom against Babar says everything that needs to be said about his character.

 

[Rana]

You combine the contributions of Sharjeel, Imad, Hales, Walton, Amir and pretty much all 10 players that year and they still pale in comparison to Babar's dominant performance in 2020. You don't need to look beyond the scorecard of the PSL final to understand what Babar did for that team.

Babar was the only Karachi batsman in the top 5 runs getter and Amir and Imad had forgettable tournaments, especially with the ball. Amir was Karachi's leading wicket-taker and was 10th on the list overall which clearly illustrates that Babar was carrying that team.

The fact that Imad has forgotten all of that and spits venom against Babar says everything that needs to be said about his character.

So you are saying KK’s 2020 champion campaign was basically a one man show?

Why has this one man not been able to replicate that show ever since?

 

[Rana]

Firstly, lets get something very clear. There is no cricketing rivalry between Babar and Imad. There is rivalry only when two players are of similar caliber.

Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar's boots as a cricketer. What rivalry are we talking about? And it says a lot about Imad's character when he barks about Babar's playing style in T20s when the same playing style carried him and his team to the PSL title.

Imad has a toxic agenda against Babar because he blames him for ending his international career. There is no cricketing rivalry. Babar's playing style has not changed but Imad's agenda has - this is why prior to 2021, Imad was full of praise for Babar's playing style but after 2021, the same playing style suddenly became a problem. This is why Imad has no credibility.

Imad didn't have a problem with Babar's playing style when Babar was carrying him to the PSL trophy in 2020.

Well there clearly is a rivalry, both are hated by each other’s fan bases, albeit Babar’s fanbase is far bigger just like Imran Khan’s vote bank in Pakistan.

That’s besides the point. Babar didn’t leave KK because of animosity with Imad and Amir, that played a role but not as big as the one by Wasim Akram. I’ve tried my best to contextualise the situation that occurred at time. I’m sure nobody shoved Babar out of the door, he left on his own accord.

 

[Mamoon]

So you are saying KK’s 2020 champion campaign was basically a one man show?

Why has this one man not been able to replicate that show ever since?

Yes, Karachi in 2020 was a one man show. He was on his way in 2021 as well but others, including Imad himself, were absolutely terrible.

In 2022, Babar had a poor season and in 2023, he took his team to the eliminator while Imad the great captain finished second last.

Peshawar are looking good this time around because Babar is in fabulous form, let’s see how far they go.

 

[Mamoon]

Well there clearly is a rivalry, both are hated by each other’s fan bases, albeit Babar’s fanbase is far bigger just like Imran Khan’s vote bank in Pakistan.

That’s besides the point. Babar didn’t leave KK because of animosity with Imad and Amir, that played a role but not as big as the one by Wasim Akram. I’ve tried my best to contextualise the situation that occurred at time. I’m sure nobody shoved Babar out of the door, he left on his own accord.

Rivalry is not a good choice of words though. There is hatred for sure but they are not rivals.

Imad is not a good enough cricketer to be a rival to Babar.

Imad fans dislike Babar because he ended his international career while Babar fans, and neutrals, dislike Imad for his hypocrisy and toxic agenda.

 

[Major]

Well there clearly is a rivalry, both are hated by each other’s fan bases, albeit Babar’s fanbase is far bigger just like Imran Khan’s vote bank in Pakistan.

That’s besides the point. Babar didn’t leave KK because of animosity with Imad and Amir, that played a role but not as big as the one by Wasim Akram. I’ve tried my best to contextualise the situation that occurred at time. I’m sure nobody shoved Babar out of the door, he left on his own accord.

come on, you call that a rivalry?

Where we you during the days of Misbah fans vs Afridi fans. The whole rivalry was on the basis of playing aggressive and defensive cricket on pakpassion

 

[Rana]

Rivalry is not a good choice of words though. There is hatred for sure but they are not rivals.

Imad is not a good enough cricketer to be a rival to Babar.

Imad fans dislike Babar because he ended his international career while Babar fans, and neutrals, dislike Imad for his hypocrisy and toxic agenda.

Babar didn’t end his career, Imad came roaring back into the side and left on his own terms. That too after scoring runs with a 170 strike rate outside of the powerplay, something Babar is incapable of anywhere in the world or against any level of bowling.

It is a sad indictment on Babar that the only real rivalry/animosity that is worth noting in his playing career is against a player of Imad Wasim’s level, that too when Imad won a PSL trophy as captain whereas Babar will never win a PSL trophy as captain. We all know he won’t be winning a World Cup (T20 or 50 over) as captain so that’s a closed chapter for him.

 

[Rana]

Yes, Karachi in 2020 was a one man show. He was on his way in 2021 as well but others, including Imad himself, were absolutely terrible.

In 2022, Babar had a poor season and in 2023, he took his team to the eliminator while Imad the great captain finished second last.

Peshawar are looking good this time around because Babar is in fabulous form, let’s see how far they go.

Peshawar will lose again to Multan and Quetta. I would bet they would lose to Karachi too. Islamabad should have won first time round, they can correct that mistake in the rematch.