[EXCLUSIVE] "You never know, I can take my retirement back": Imad Wasim

[topspin]

bAbAr Is ThE cApTaIn Of My FrAnChIsE So He HaS A bIrThRiGhT tO cApTaIn PaKiStAn

Nailed it. The pro-Babar agenda is obviously connected to his franchise.

 

[Rana]

I need to read the original and add this to my long list of his gems

That’s what his fans have been saying throughout this tournament

“Babar has evolved as a T20 batter”

Well, So has Mohammad Amir though? He has clearly demonstrated that he has far more off side game than Mohammad Rizwan. I could genuinely make a thread on this and I know I will win this debate.

 

[mominsaigol]

Just so you know, cricket is a team sport, one man doesn't win you a match alone.

Imad has done alot for Pakistan.

He dismantled the NZ c team in t20 2023 games whereas nawaz/Shadab didn't do anything and in odi didn't do much either.

In 2016 despite having a bad tour against England he was the only one to never get out innthe series even scoring an unbeaten 61 and took numerous wickets in the game.

Against Ireland he nukes them, in champions trophy 2017 he finished the game for Pakistan scoring valuable contributing runs.

All of these achievements surpass Nawaz's 40 of 20 and shadab's yuvi's wicket. It doesn't help that nawaz amd shadab have single handidelt contributed to being the worst bowlers in the asia cup and 2 worst bowlers in the world cup, like how on earth is your bowling competition Joe root?

But no, Shadab and Nawaz get a pass, While imad has to pull a sarfraz nawaz every game with the ball and a Glenn maxwell every game with the bat.

 

[topspin]

Imad has done alot for Pakistan.

He dismantled the NZ c team in t20 2023 games whereas nawaz/Shadab didn't do anything and in odi didn't do much either.

In 2016 despite having a bad tour against England he was the only one to never get out innthe series even scoring an unbeaten 61 and took numerous wickets in the game.

Against Ireland he nukes them, in champions trophy 2017 he finished the game for Pakistan scoring valuable contributing runs.

All of these achievements surpass Nawaz's 40 of 20 and shadab's yuvi's wicket. It doesn't help that nawaz amd shadab have single handidelt contributed to being the worst bowlers in the asia cup and 2 worst bowlers in the world cup, like how on earth is your bowling competition Joe root?

But no, Shadab and Nawaz get a pass, While imad has to pull a sarfraz nawaz every game with the ball and a Glenn maxwell every game with the bat.

Indeed.

See posts 66 and 68 on this thread, where I made a full list of his accomplishments. Not a single Imad hater, who all happen to be Misbah/Babar/Rizwan fans, has managed to give a counter response let alone a solid one.

 

[Rana]

Yes it’s that simple

Babar will just hit 6 fours and score 24 against the Ace bowler that the opposition puts up with 5 fielders allowed on the boundary

 

[MenInG]

Thread is about Imad.

 

[PakEngFan]

It's possibly the dumbest question I've ever seen on here, so many congrats to you @PakEngFan for making a name for yourself. Just so you know, cricket is a team sport, one man doesn't win you a match alone. It's nothing more than a cop out for someone like you with your anti-Imad agenda.

First, it was Nawaz > Imad. Now it's GiVe Me OnE gAmE wHeRe ImAd HaS sInGlE hAnDiDeLy WoN aN eNtIrE 11 mAn GaMe AlL bY hImSeLf.

he said Imad has won Pakistan countless of matches when asked to present them he came up with 5fer against Ireland and 25 runs against India.

I never asked him to give me a game where he single handedly won a game for Pakistan.

 

[PakEngFan]

Indeed.

See posts 66 and 68 on this thread, where I made a full list of his accomplishments. Not a single Imad hater, who all happen to be Misbah/Babar/Rizwan fans, has managed to give a counter response let alone a solid one.

@Mamoon dropped truth bombs and you couldn't come up with a response of note. You mock Babar but he's million times the player Imad could ever be. Babar averages 56. His world cup average alone is better than Imad career average. Mental beast Imad had a bowling average of 94 in the world cup. That's worse than a part timer.

Than again you consider Babar a substandard player while Imad a mental beast.

 

[topspin]

@Mamoon dropped truth bombs and you couldn't come up with a response of note.

He actually got schooled. He claimed KK’s PSL win in 2020 under Imad’s leadership was “Babar one man show" and "Imad was carried by Babar". (see posts #170 and 171).

I also listed Imad’s career accomplishments (see posts 66 and 68). Given your strong anti-Imad rhetoric and agenda, I dare you to even try and come up with a counter argument in response to this list.

You mock Babar but he's million times the player Imad could ever be. Babar averages 56. His world cup average alone is better than Imad career average. Mental beast Imad had a bowling average of 94 in the world cup. That's worse than a part timer.

So first it was Nawaz > Imad but because your wishes didn’t come true, you’re now shifting goalposts to Babar v Imad.

We all know who’s the better captain and that’s evident by his PSL win. Babar on the other hand took KK to 1 win and 9 losses. The worst ever showing by a captain in PSL history. Have some shame.

Than again you consider Babar a substandard player while Imad a mental beast.

Show me where I stated that Babar is substandard.

 

[mominsaigol]

he said Imad has won Pakistan countless of matches when asked to present them he came up with 5fer against Ireland and 25 runs against India.

I never asked him to give me a game where he single handedly won a game for Pakistan.

@topspin

ironic how he's mocking the 25 runs against India as if those 25 runs didn't take the score to 339, causing an excellent finish since throughout the CT, Indian team clearly showed 300 was par for them.

 

[topspin]

ironic how he's mocking the 25 runs against India as if those 25 runs didn't take the score to 339, causing an excellent finish since throughout the CT, Indian team clearly showed 300 was par for them.

That innings was a very useful cameo to lift Pakistan to a total that became out of reach for the greatest ODI batting line-up of all-time, consisting of Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan, on what was a batting paradise.

It takes a special kind of ignoramus to belittle it.

 

[mominsaigol]

That innings was a very useful cameo to lift Pakistan to a total that became out of reach for the greatest ODI batting line-up of all-time, consisting of Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan, on what was a batting paradise.

It takes a special kind of ignoramus to belittle it.

Tbf, you can use the argument that Amir just blisted everyone, but even if Amir hadn't, and Pakistan wasn't completly onsong that day, the 339 target was still an extremely difficult chase given the swinging and spinning nature of the pitch.

 

[topspin]

Tbf, you can use the argument that Amir just blisted everyone, but even if Amir hadn't, and Pakistan wasn't completly onsong that day, the 339 target was still an extremely difficult chase given the swinging and spinning nature of the pitch.

Had India made it to 50/1 after 10 overs in that run chase, I reckon they would’ve won. It was a super flat batting wicket. Amir’s bowling performance was clutch and was possibly just as important (if not more) as Fakhar’s hundred. Dismissing that top 3 is no joke.

 

[mominsaigol]

Had India made it to 50/1 after 10 overs in that run chase, I reckon they would’ve won. It was a super flat batting wicket. Amir’s bowling performance was clutch and was possibly just as important (if not more) as Fakhar’s hundred. Dismissing that top 3 is no joke.

I'm saying it would have been difficult, not that it was unchasable.

339 is never an easy target even in batting friendly pitches.

Pakistan would have lost 2x to Nz c team last year had fakhar not bullied them 2x lol.

 

[daytrader]

I also listed Imad’s career accomplishments (see posts 66 and 68). Given your strong anti-Imad rhetoric and agenda, I dare you to even try and come up with a counter argument in response to this list. You and I both know, you’ll meet the same fate like your soul mate did not so long ago.

I don't have an agenda against Imad but his average is highly inflated due to not outs batting in the lower order. This is the same criticism you guys used against Misbah that he used to play for his average.

 

[160KPH]

Whether he chooses to take back his retirement or not is not that big of a deal. He failed the entire tournament. Just because he had one decent innings with the bat (30*) and finally took a few wickets does not mean he’s suddenly a world class player.

He chose to become a league cricket player and commentator on TV. There’s nothing wrong with that, I hope he makes a lot of money in those ventures.

 

[shaz619]

Whether he chooses to take back his retirement or not is not that big of a deal. He failed the entire tournament. Just because he had one decent innings with the bat (30*) and finally took a few wickets does not mean he’s suddenly a world class player.

He chose to become a league cricket player and commentator on TV. There’s nothing wrong with that, I hope he makes a lot of money in those ventures.

Imad thinks he is Gary Sobers now though

 

[MenInG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768905362671915343

 

[Mamoon]

This guy should have been playing every LOI game for years. It’s so sad that he isn’t.

I don’t think the guy seriously cares anymore. He’s let himself go and focused on leagues.

People don’t fluke great stats over a consistent period of time. Same story for Fawad too. To drop a guy go who got to no.1 in the bowling rankings, and averaged over 42 at SR 110 in ODIs is criminal.

A frontline spinner who averages 60+ with the ball vs the top ODI sides deserved to play every ODI?

 

[Mamoon]

@topspin check all the people who liked this post. Does it come as any surprise to you?

Where is he in the list of leading wicket takers and run scorers in this edition?

 

[Mamoon]

Imad averages the following with the ball in ODIs against the top sides:

Australia: 9 matches, average of 64

England: 10 matches, average of 40

India: 3 matches, no average because has never taken a wicket against them

New Zealand: 4 matches, averages of 126

South Africa: 6 matches, average of 71

These numbers would be embarrassing for a part-timer, let alone someone who played for Pakistan as a front-line spinner.

You could throw Babar Azam the ball in ODIs and he would produce better figures against these sides.

Imad is the worst spinner in history of ODI cricket.

32 ODIs, bowling average of 62 with a shambolic strike rate as well - 21 wickets in 32 games with only one 3 wicket haul.

This is the reality of this cricketer. @ads101 he absolutely did not deserve to play every single LOI match in the last few years.

 

[Mamoon]

He actually got schooled. He claimed KK’s PSL win in 2020 under Imad’s leadership was “Babar one man show" and "Imad was carried by Babar". (see posts #170 and 171).

You don’t even have the courage to reply to me directly. Schooled where?

• It is a fact that Babar carried Imad and Karachi to the title
• It is a fact that Imad is a nothing cricketer
• It is a fact that Imad finished below Babar’s Peshawar last season, so much for Imad being a superior leader
• It is a fact that Babar’s W/L ratio as captain is better than Imad’s W/L ratio as captain without Babar

Go ahead and “school” me on this, but please develop the courage and quote my directly so that I don’t miss your drivel. I don’t rate you enough as a poster to read your posts unless you quote me.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah I mean I’ve conceded to Mamoon’s PZ pro Babar propaganda and am desperately hoping for Babar to once again captain Pakistan in white ball cricket. 4 years on the job and there is one guy who still claims Babar was unfairly removed. Shaheen has been below par in his first 5 games as captain but there seems to be know leniency shown towards him.

If that’s the Zillat these guys want, I hope that their wishes are fulfilled.

bAbAr Is ThE cApTaIn Of My FrAnChIsE So He HaS A bIrThRiGhT tO cApTaIn PaKiStAn

What propaganda?

Babar has led his team incredibly well in this tournament and people can learn from their mistakes. I think he is ready to captain Pakistan again and perhaps the little break did him good.

However, I also like the idea of Shaheen captaining Pakistan and I like his leadership style, so I don’t have a problem with his continuing.

The one change that Pakistan needs to make right now is to boot Masood out of the Test team.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Lots of people all at sea here in this thread.

People simply dont understand what Imads competition is.

If we had a Jadeja and Lyon waiting in Pakistan as a top line all rounder or spinner respectively and Imad was stopping him from being in the team, most detractors would have a case.

But if you are going to throw the names of Nawaz and Shadab as the other spinners or all rounders and then mock Imad for his poor averages, you will be called out for your deliberate dishonesty every time.

Imad simply makes the team over those two for being more "economical" and getting "useful runs down the order". The others are either way too expensive with no control or cant hold a bat:
Shadab has been so poor that everyone once thought he was there for his fielding in the Pakistan team.

Imad is not the best averaging spinner or the best all rounder in the world. But when you look at the control he provides along with his useful runs, he is a million dollars. Find me a better all rounder who is playing in Pakistan and manages to control the top and get runs down and I will concede Imad should have been thrown out.

But no one has any answers on who the alternative should be; however, we should laugh raucously at Imads poor performances and try to compare him to Babar who is in no way comparable to a bottom of the table all rounder.

Babar is a good player but he has so many limitations that its not even funny. A hack like Ijaz Ahmed probably has more memorable knocks than our revered Mr. Babar. He plays in his comfort zone because he is unable to play outside his comfort zone. The moment he tries, he becomes as useless as Danny Morrison of cricket. He plays long innings under the pretense of providing "stability" but he does it to improve his personal averages. Despite batting for nearly 10 years he has a one or two defining knocks in his career. That is a poor performance from a guy touted as one of the best batsmen ever in Pakistan. He cant chase high scores and is yet to make an impact in Test cricket.

Taking all these things into account, he had a stint as captain for 4 years (I dont recall how long? someone can correct me) which was studded with similar problems no aura, no ability to change the course of the game, no practical innovations in captaincy and loss of personal form while trying to balance the problems of captaincy and personal performance.

He was let go because he was a poor.captain and his captaincy was (questionably?) affecting his ability to play his dour and boring style of cricket.

With all these problems, (there are 10 other former players in Pakistan who are better than Babar), when you try to throw a curve ball at me by quoting his average and mighty performances against Nepal and Uganda and B and C team attacks of New Zealand and pretend he is the best ever batsmen for Pakistan I have to just laugh and say "Okay sure".

And to recommend him as captain again after seeing how lost he was on the field the first time is like asking a horse why he wont drink water and leading him to the pond everytime.

Babar is an average batsmen so far in his career and even a worse captain.

Least you can do is to stop making stupid comparisons with Imad who may not be at Babars level in batting but he doesnt have to be because his role in the team is quite different to the usual bottle job that Babar offers.

 

[mominsaigol]

Lots of people all at sea here in this thread.

People simply dont understand what Imads competition is.

If we had a Jadeja and Lyon waiting in Pakistan as a top line all rounder or spinner respectively and Imad was stopping him from being in the team, most detractors would have a case.

But if you are going to throw the names of Nawaz and Shadab as the other spinners or all rounders and then mock Imad for his poor averages, you will be called out for your deliberate dishonesty every time.

Imad simply makes the team over those two for being more "economical" and getting "useful runs down the order". The others are either way too expensive with no control or cant hold a bat:
Shadab has been so poor that everyone once thought he was there for his fielding in the Pakistan team.

Imad is not the best averaging spinner or the best all rounder in the world. But when you look at the control he provides along with his useful runs, he is a million dollars. Find me a better all rounder who is playing in Pakistan and manages to control the top and get runs down and I will concede Imad should have been thrown out.

But no one has any answers on who the alternative should be; however, we should laugh raucously at Imads poor performances and try to compare him to Babar who is in no way comparable to a bottom of the table all rounder.

Babar is a good player but he has so many limitations that its not even funny. A hack like Ijaz Ahmed probably has more memorable knocks than our revered Mr. Babar. He plays in his comfort zone because he is unable to play outside his comfort zone. The moment he tries, he becomes as useless as Danny Morrison of cricket. He plays long innings under the pretense of providing "stability" but he does it to improve his personal averages. Despite batting for nearly 10 years he has a one or two defining knocks in his career. That is a poor performance from a guy touted as one of the best batsmen ever in Pakistan. He cant chase high scores and is yet to make an impact in Test cricket.

Taking all these things into account, he had a stint as captain for 4 years (I dont recall how long? someone can correct me) which was studded with similar problems no aura, no ability to change the course of the game, no practical innovations in captaincy and loss of personal form while trying to balance the problems of captaincy and personal performance.

He was let go because he was a poor.captain and his captaincy was (questionably?) affecting his ability to play his dour and boring style of cricket.

With all these problems, (there are 10 other former players in Pakistan who are better than Babar), when you try to throw a curve ball at me by quoting his average and mighty performances against Nepal and Uganda and B and C team attacks of New Zealand and pretend he is the best ever batsmen for Pakistan I have to just laugh and say "Okay sure".

And to recommend him as captain again after seeing how lost he was on the field the first time is like asking a horse why he wont drink water and leading him to the pond everytime.

Babar is an average batsmen so far in his career and even a worse captain.

Least you can do is to stop making stupid comparisons with Imad who may not be at Babars level in batting but he doesnt have to be because his role in the team is quite different to the usual bottle job that Babar offers.

This honestly deserved POTC.

Yes not post of the week but post of the century. One of the best insight analysis I have seen on imad vs Nawaz vs Shadab, and actually answered every single question from both sides.

 

[BouncerGuy]

You guys need to keep in mind a fact that should settle the whole conflict. IMAD IS RETIRED

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You guys need to keep in mind a fact that should settle the whole conflict. IMAD is retired.

He retired because he saw no way back in the Pakistan team which was being run by Babar and his cronies.

He is better off retired than trying to convince people that he is one of the "better all rounders" for Pakistan.

But if Babar is in the picture for captaincy again, if Shaheen is going to start coming at 5 to be the pseduo all rounder while bowling his 125 kph dibbly dobbly balls to the opening batsmen and if Rizwan is going to stubbornly create a statue of himself in the opening position than Imad also can obviously rescind his retirement for the T20 World Cup to help this hapless team find some top order control.

You cant say with a straight face that Babar or Shaheen or Rizwan are all better all rounders or captains than Imad.

 

[FearlessRoar]

We don't need him anymore. We need professional and dedicated players. We don't need those players who retire to play in leagues and then perform well in one-off league matches, then people demand their return to the national side, we must stop this culture.

 

[ads101]

Imad averages the following with the ball in ODIs against the top sides:

Australia: 9 matches, average of 64

England: 10 matches, average of 40

India: 3 matches, no average because has never taken a wicket against them

New Zealand: 4 matches, averages of 126

South Africa: 6 matches, average of 71

These numbers would be embarrassing for a part-timer, let alone someone who played for Pakistan as a front-line spinner.

You could throw Babar Azam the ball in ODIs and he would produce better figures against these sides.

Imad is the worst spinner in history of ODI cricket.

32 ODIs, bowling average of 62 with a shambolic strike rate as well - 21 wickets in 32 games with only one 3 wicket haul.

This is the reality of this cricketer. @ads101 he absolutely did not deserve to play every single LOI match in the last few years.

He would play in the allrounder spot. Can we even name one guy that would produce better stats than him batting at 7 in ODIs? Even as a batsman alone in a position most struggle?

It is a weird array of performances. In ODIs his worth is more batting at 7 with some economical overs. In t20s he’s much better with the ball, and gives us something with the bat. But what is in common is his overall performance in both these formats no matter what way he does it, easily outperforms Shadab, Nawaz, Faheem. And that’s really what matters at the end of the day because one of those is going to be playing if Imad doesn’t play.

 

[topspin]

I don't have an agenda against Imad but his average is highly inflated due to not outs batting in the lower order. This is the same criticism you guys used against Misbah that he used to play for his average.

This is not a valid criticism because guys like Misbah and Babar bat up the order. Imad usually comes lower down the order.

Also, Imad averages 40+ against Australia, England, India and South Africa, who are all top ODI teams.

Let’s take a look at some of his best unbeaten knocks for Pakistan:

• Match winning knock of 49 not out against Afghanistan during the 2019 World Cup
• In the 2016 England v Pakistan ODI series, he was Pakistan’s third highest run scorer with 153 runs from 4 games despite having batting at 7/8. He wasn’t even dismissed once in that series. To put this performance into perspective, Babar Azam played in all 5 x ODIs but could only manage 122 runs
• 2017 CT final cameo of 25 not out to help Pakistan lift from 300 to almost 340

It would be disingenuous to belittle these contributions and to bring Misbah into this, who couldn’t score a single ODI ton despite having batted in the top 5 in over 100 innings.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't have an agenda against Imad but his average is highly inflated due to not outs batting in the lower order. This is the same criticism you guys used against Misbah that he used to play for his average.

He's a no 7 bat and a bowler who's used as a new ball bowler in t20?

The fact he has the highest avg amongst any other no 7 we've had over the past decade speaks volume?

Shadab and nawaz can't stay not out at no 7 that's the thing, deapite appearing their multiple times and at the back end of an innings they get humiliated by even the bare minimum of bowlers.

I don't prefer imad either, he isn't a great bowler but I'm tired of people acting as if shadab, nawaz and faheem are superior to he is and then they bring up stats when most of nawaz's bowling was played against Fodder c string batting line ups and the few c string line ups that imad has bowled against like Ireland or c string NZ he's dismantled.

This is why I despise the stats argument so much and simply ignore posters like Pakengfan because I've countless( No countless is not literal good god) times in the past gone into deep and intricate depth as to why the stats argument is so disingenuous as stats wise, Babar is the greatest pakistani captain of all time as he has the highest win ratio and took his team to no 1, but obviously given what happens in tournaments you'd know he isn't even half the captain that YK or Imran Khan were.

All context is completly ignored, it doesn't take a genius to figure out, that imad is superior to 2 bowlers who think Joe root is their bowling competition and statically he's been the greatest no 7 bat for Pakistan in the past decade. Way better then players like asif Ali, nawaz etc.

 

[PakEngFan]

@topspin

ironic how he's mocking the 25 runs against India as if those 25 runs didn't take the score to 339, causing an excellent finish since throughout the CT, Indian team clearly showed 300 was par for them.

Lol it was 25 of 21 balls I am sure anyone would have managed that with the amount of wickets we had. You are making it out as if he scored 25 of 5 balls or something. He was struggling to hit and it was quite an average innings but yes tell yourself that was the difference in our win.

 

[mominsaigol]

Lol it was 25 of 21 balls I am sure anyone would have managed that with the amount of wickets we had. You are making it out as if he scored 25 of 5 balls or something. He was struggling to hit and it was quite an average innings but yes tell yourself that was the difference in our win.

Yes man, it was a trash innings, horrible, bad imad waseem bad, look at nawaz scoring 200 of every game and being the worlds greatest asia cup and world cup bowler, even the mighty Joe root who's considered the greatest bowler of our generation couldn't outdo the legendary nawaz.

Nawaz and shadab are the greatest allrounders pakistan have ever produced, coupled with babar's legendary ability to hit 6 4's in a super over and rizwan's might ability to always hit on onside balls on the legside, we have the greatest team of this generation. No wonder we reached no 1.

@topspin Bro, Pakengfan is right, Thank god we replaced Imad waseem for Nawaz, brought rizwan to open, And had shadab and shaheen as pur frontline allrounder, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

 

[MenInG]

Yes man, it was a trash innings, horrible, bad imad waseem bad, look at nawaz scoring 200 of every game and being the worlds greatest asia cup and world cup bowler, even the mighty Joe root who's considered the greatest bowler of our generation couldn't outdo the legendary nawaz.

Nawaz and shadab are the greatest allrounders pakistan have ever produced, coupled with babar's legendary ability to hit 6 4's in a super over and rizwan's might ability to always hit on onside balls on the legside, we have the greatest team of this generation. No wonder we reached no 1.

@topspin Bro, Pakengfan is right, Thank god we replaced Imad waseem for Nawaz, brought rizwan to open, And had shadab and shaheen as pur frontline allrounder, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

If we have run out of arguments and can only resort to such basic comments then I think this discussion has run its course.

 

[mominsaigol]

If we have run out of arguments and can only resort to such basic comments then I think this discussion has run its course.

Okay. Agreed.

 

[PakEngFan]

He actually got schooled. He claimed KK’s PSL win in 2020 under Imad’s leadership was “Babar one man show" and "Imad was carried by Babar". (see posts #170 and 171).

I also listed Imad’s career accomplishments (see posts 66 and 68). Given your strong anti-Imad rhetoric and agenda, I dare you to even try and come up with a counter argument in response to this list.



So first it was Nawaz > Imad but because your wishes didn’t come true, you’re now shifting goalposts to Babar v Imad.

We all know who’s the better captain and that’s evident by his PSL win. Babar on the other hand took KK to 1 win and 9 losses. The worst ever showing by a captain in PSL history. Have some shame.


Show me where I stated that Babar is substandard.

If anyone who thinks it wasn't a one man show in that Psl then. They are being dishonest. Babar carried them and without him they wouldn't have won. Babar is a rubbish captain and is rightly replaced. The irony is you mock Babar but he's the reason why Imad even won Psl in first place.

I will respond to you post 66. If you can tell me Imad match winning performances? Other then the 25 lol.

You called Babar substandard and when questioned you said my post was edited by the mods. Even for sake of argument you didn't call him that. You spread most of the hating on Babar while he's million times the player Imad could ever be.

 

[PakEngFan]

Yes man, it was a trash innings, horrible, bad imad waseem bad, look at nawaz scoring 200 of every game and being the worlds greatest asia cup and world cup bowler, even the mighty Joe root who's considered the greatest bowler of our generation couldn't outdo the legendary nawaz.

Nawaz and shadab are the greatest allrounders pakistan have ever produced, coupled with babar's legendary ability to hit 6 4's in a super over and rizwan's might ability to always hit on onside balls on the legside, we have the greatest team of this generation. No wonder we reached no 1.

@topspin Bro, Pakengfan is right, Thank god we replaced Imad waseem for Nawaz, brought rizwan to open, And had shadab and shaheen as pur frontline allrounder, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

Another useless essay which completely avoids the question which you can't answer. From what angle 25 runs off 21 balls is great?

 

[mominsaigol]

Another useless essay which completely avoids the question which you can't answer. From what angle 25 runs off 21 balls is great?

I'll answer one last time, professionally and properly since you've been going try hard on me 24/7 for the past few days and are hella toxic, and I'm tired of repeating myself since I've addressed the stats argument A million times already but I'll respond one last time, afterwards the discussion will have run its course and I won't bother replying cause I guarantee the response will some hate speech but here goes.

One final time,

You're looking at it from a scorecard perspective which completely an incorrect way of looking at things,

In world cup 2019, Babar made 101 of 127 balls, and if someone was to look at the scorecard they'd think Pakistan performed extremely poorly as new Zealand only posted 237 and Pakistan despite only losing 4 wickets and harisnsohail dismissed only at the end, Pakistan with nearly 7 wickets in hand throughout the whole match only just managed to cross 237 in the very last over.

If you look at the scorecard it would seem babar played a beyond selfish innings and haris sohail was stat padding, but in reality the pitch was extremely difficult to play and both had to play very very slowly considering the insane amount of turn on the pitch, any mistake could cause a collapse and a horrific knockout.

However again FROM A SCORECARD PERSPECTIVE, the score is absolutely trash and Bobby played a horrible innings despite thatbinnings being considered his best because fans who watched the game know what Bobby did given the conditions.

Same can be said for labu and Travis head in the India final, the pitch was beyond difficult, Rahul was struggling beyond belief, everyone struggled that day besides rohit and Travis head. Labu's innings was important to anchor. However again scorecard wise it would seem as of Rahul and labu played a selfish innings.

Champions trophy is the same, the pitch was not easy to bat on, given how much swing and spin their was, shadab was spinning as if he was Shane Warne that day, Amir was literally wasim akram.

However india carries a chocking tag and just weren't bowling well that day irrespective of the pitch. Regardless it wasn't easy to bat on and imad waseem managed to finish well. Babar azam and malik had clearly struggled on that pitch and weren't able to strike at 100 deapite fakhar giving a solid start, in context imad's innings was beyond valuable.

It's just its overshadowed because hafeez and fakhar entered God mode and fakhar has shown multiple times he's the only player who can go masterclass mode irrespective of conditions.

Now please, read this, think 3x before commenting, respond with something intellectual and not silly, otherwise the discussion is over.

 

[PakEngFan]

I'll answer one last time, professionally and properly since you've been going try hard on me 24/7 for the past few days and are hella toxic, and I'm tired of repeating myself since I've addressed the stats argument A million times already but I'll respond one last time, afterwards the discussion will have run its course and I won't bother replying cause I guarantee the response will some hate speech but here goes.

One final time,

You're looking at it from a scorecard perspective which completely an incorrect way of looking at things,

In world cup 2019, Babar made 101 of 127 balls, and if someone was to look at the scorecard they'd think Pakistan performed extremely poorly as new Zealand only posted 237 and Pakistan despite only losing 4 wickets and harisnsohail dismissed only at the end, Pakistan with nearly 7 wickets in hand throughout the whole match only just managed to cross 237 in the very last over.

If you look at the scorecard it would seem babar played a beyond selfish innings and haris sohail was stat padding, but in reality the pitch was extremely difficult to play and both had to play very very slowly considering the insane amount of turn on the pitch, any mistake could cause a collapse and a horrific knockout.

However again FROM A SCORECARD PERSPECTIVE, the score is absolutely trash and Bobby played a horrible innings despite thatbinnings being considered his best because fans who watched the game know what Bobby did given the conditions.

Same can be said for labu and Travis head in the India final, the pitch was beyond difficult, Rahul was struggling beyond belief, everyone struggled that day besides rohit and Travis head. Labu's innings was important to anchor. However again scorecard wise it would seem as of Rahul and labu played a selfish innings.

Champions trophy is the same, the pitch was not easy to bat on, given how much swing and spin their was, shadab was spinning as if he was Shane Warne that day, Amir was literally wasim akram.

However india carries a chocking tag and just weren't bowling well that day irrespective of the pitch. Regardless it wasn't easy to bat on and imad waseem managed to finish well. Babar azam and malik had clearly struggled on that pitch and weren't able to strike at 100 deapite fakhar giving a solid start, in context imad's innings was beyond valuable.

It's just its overshadowed because hafeez and fakhar entered God mode and fakhar has shown multiple times he's the only player who can go masterclass mode irrespective of conditions.

Now please, read this, think 3x before commenting, respond with something intellectual and not silly, otherwise the discussion is over.

If you watched the game Babar looked comfortable rather than struggled and if we even take that pitch being a minefield as an example from you which it clearly wasn't his innings of 46 was even better because he allowed the like of hafeez and Imad to play freely. I can't believe you go such lengths to defend 25 and make it out to be a match winning innings. The fact is his innings in the context was pretty useless when you have 6 wickets remaining and you score 25 off 21 it's pretty average. Considering we were well on our way of scoring in excess of 300.


The champions trophy pitch after the initial few over was as flat as they come but of course to justify Imad 25 runs, you have to turn it to a minefield. Even with that total India would have still backed themselves but Amir had other ideas. Amir finished the game with his first spell. We saw how hard pandya found out shadab warne. As I have said you make up things as you go alone.

On Babar innings against new Zealand I was there and watched the whole game that pitch was completely different. I like how you bought that innings of Babar, Travis head to justify Imad 25 runs when the team total was already 270 odd with 40 odd balls remaining.

 

[ads101]

Babar is the better player and far more crucial to us in every format.

However Imad and Babar aren’t competing for the same positions. The guys Imad is competing against are way worse than Imad. And Imad still deserved a place in the side, as does Babar.

It’s a shame these guys don’t get on so much perhaps. But I don’t think Babar even made the initial call to drop imad years ago anyway.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar is an average batsmen so far in his career and even a worse captain.

I don’t think you understand what average means if you think Babar is an average batsman.

He is quite clearly, a high quality batsman no matter how you look at it.

It is debate how good he really is and how good you think he is.

 

[mominsaigol]

If you watched the game Babar looked comfortable rather than struggled and if we even take that pitch being a minefield as an example from you which it clearly wasn't his innings of 46 was even better because he allowed the like of hafeez and Imad to play freely. I can't believe you go such lengths to defend 25 and make it out to be a match winning innings. The fact is his innings in the context was pretty useless when you have 6 wickets remaining and you score 25 off 21 it's pretty average. Considering we were well on our way of scoring in excess of 300.


The champions trophy pitch after the initial few over was as flat as they come but of course to justify Imad 25 runs, you have to turn it to a minefield. Even with that total India would have still backed themselves but Amir had other ideas. Amir finished the game with his first spell. We saw how hard pandya found out shadab warne. As I have said you make up things as you go alone.

On Babar innings against new Zealand I was there and watched the whole game that pitch was completely different. I like how you bought that innings of Babar, Travis head to justify Imad 25 runs when the team total was already 270 odd with 40 odd balls remaining.

Brother, Babar has proved one thing in his Career, his inability to strike at over 100sr unless the team is bare basic like Nepal or the bowlers are useless, and his inability to properly open in t20.

The champions trophy pitch was not easy, the pitch Massively favoured legspin and swing. The outfield being fast has no correlation to the actual pitch itself.

Then don't have this discussion and press me 24/7, I'm tired of reading comments and addressing every reply because you want my attention.

Comments such as

" Babar can hit 6 fours in a super over"

Or

" Give me an example of Imad single handidely winning an 11 man game"

Or

" Give me an example of a better opener then rizwan"

 

[mominsaigol]

I don’t think you understand what average means if you think Babar is an average batsman.

He is quite clearly, a high quality batsman no matter how you look at it.

It is debate how good he really is and how good you think he is.

You yourself have said multiple times he's an average batsmen man, just a high quality batsmen for Pakistani standards lol.

Babar is no where close to high quality if you compare him to the rest of the world.

You're literally backtracking on your own premise you made a few months back by stating he's world class when dealing with minnow bowlers but bang medicore when dealing with quality.

I'm 100% sure I can find those comments in the 2023 wc threads.

 

[Mamoon]

He would play in the allrounder spot. Can we even name one guy that would produce better stats than him batting at 7 in ODIs? Even as a batsman alone in a position most struggle?

It is a weird array of performances. In ODIs his worth is more batting at 7 with some economical overs. In t20s he’s much better with the ball, and gives us something with the bat. But what is in common is his overall performance in both these formats no matter what way he does it, easily outperforms Shadab, Nawaz, Faheem. And that’s really what matters at the end of the day because one of those is going to be playing if Imad doesn’t play.

Imad, Shadab and Nawaz cannot hide behind the “we are all-rounders” shield because they are playing as front-line bowlers.

It would have been easy to defend and justify their poor bowling stats if they were the sixth bowling option. However, they are not.

Imad or Shadab or Nawaz are tasked with bowling the full quota of overs in every match that they play which means they are part of the frontline bowlers contingent if you are a frontline bowler and have bowling stats that would put a part-timer to shame, you are a liability no matter how many trees you are uprooting with the bat.

Imad has batted well in ODIs, but his bowling as a frontline bowler in the team has been so terrible that his net effect has been negative on the team.

He is a very, very average cricketer no matter how you look at it and this drama of him being a great captain has also ended in tears.

 

[Mamoon]

You yourself have said multiple times he's an average batsmen man, just a high quality batsmen for Pakistani standards lol.

Babar is no where close to high quality if you compare him to the rest of the world.

You're literally backtracking on your own premise you made a few months back by stating he's world class when dealing with minnow bowlers but bang medicore when dealing with quality.

I'm 100% sure I can find those comments in the 2023 wc threads.

What I said or didn’t say doesn’t really matter. Maybe I said things at a different time in a different place. The only thing that matters to me is what I am saying in present and that is what I am accountable for.

We all say that things that we don’t really believe in and don’t always agree with in hindsight.

 

[Ahmed216]

So you're not toxic at all? And are the chillest member here? Ayt

Brother, Babar has proved one thing in his Career, his inability to strike at over 100sr unless the team is bare basic like Nepal or the bowlers are useless, and his inability to properly open in t20.

The champions trophy pitch was not easy, the pitch Massively favoured legspin and swing. The outfield being fast has no correlation to the actual pitch itself.

Then don't have this discussion and press me 24/7, I'm tired of reading comments and addressing every reply because you want my attention.

Comments such as

" Babar can hit 6 fours in a super over"

Or

" Give me an example of Imad single handidely winning an 11 man game"

Or

" Give me an example of a better opener then rizwan"

Are such braindead questions that one can only question the IQ level of certain people.

Champions trophy pitch favored leg spin? Jadeja Ashwin jadhav never bowled leg spin. Shadab Khan was tonked for sixes after he picked 2 wickets on straight balls . Ball came on to the bat so well.Imad was injured he couldn't bowl. Which leg spinner did it favor massively?
Pitch had a bit for new ball bowlers and Amir also made full use of good carry the pitch offered.

And can't u discuss without making personal attacks?

 

[Mamoon]

Wait…sorry I missed a few of the posts above.

I can’t believe that Imad cult fans are hyping up his garbage 25 in 21 balls in the CT Final.

But perhaps I am wrong and I should not have a hard time believing this because if a nothing player like Imad has fans, we should be ready to expect anything from such fans.

Imad scored only two boundaries in 21 balls in the death overs, and his only six came off Kedar Jadhav bowling pies.

Imad was the reason why Pakistan failed to score 350 and had Hafeez played as poorly as Imad did, Pakistan would have scored at least 15-20 runs less than what they actually managed.

Imad cult expose themselves by hyping such average performances. Indirectly, they admit that he is a nothing player and the bar for his performances is very low.

 

[PakEngFan]

Wait…sorry I missed a few of the posts above.

I can’t believe that Imad cult fans are hyping up his garbage 25 in 21 balls in the CT Final.

But perhaps I am wrong and I should not have a hard time believing this because if a nothing player like Imad has fans, we should be ready to expect anything from such fans.

Imad scored only two boundaries in 21 balls in the death overs, and his only six came off Kedar Jadhav bowling pies.

Imad was the reason why Pakistan failed to score 350 and had Hafeez played as poorly as Imad did, Pakistan would have scored at least 15-20 runs less than what they actually managed.

Imad cult expose themselves by hyping such average performances. Indirectly, they admit that he is a nothing player and the bar for his performances is very low.

It was a minefield of a pitch. Imad 25 runs were the reason pakistan won. Babar struggled and couldn't bat at 100sr. I can't believe people are using those 25 runs as match winning innings

I clearly remember people were very annoyed at imad's innings and some even said it could cost as the game.

 

[Mamoon]

This is not a valid criticism because guys like Misbah and Babar bat up the order. Imad usually comes lower down the order.

Also, Imad averages 40+ against Australia, England, India and South Africa, who are all top ODI teams.

Let’s take a look at some of his best unbeaten knocks for Pakistan:

• Match winning knock of 49 not out against Afghanistan during the 2019 World Cup
• In the 2016 England v Pakistan ODI series, he was Pakistan’s third highest run scorer with 153 runs from 4 games despite having batting at 7/8. He wasn’t even dismissed once in that series. To put this performance into perspective, Babar Azam played in all 5 x ODIs but could only manage 122 runs
• 2017 CT final cameo of 25 not out to help Pakistan lift from 300 to almost 340

It would be disingenuous to belittle these contributions and to bring Misbah into this, who couldn’t score a single ODI ton despite having batted in the top 5 in over 100 innings.

The only thing that Imad “lifted” with his garbage 25 in 21 was the spirit of the Indian team who got a moral boost thanks to his tuk tuk.

India were looking at chasing 350 but thanks to Imad, they were able to limit Pakistan to 338.

Imad scored 7 runs in his final 10 balls and this innings is now being highlighted by his cult fans as one of his career achievements which shows how little he has achieved in his career.

 

[mominsaigol]

What I said or didn’t say doesn’t really matter. Maybe I said things at a different time in a different place. The only thing that matters to me is what I am saying in present and that is what I am accountable for.

We all say that things that we don’t really believe in and don’t always agree with in hindsight.

Just say you changed your mind man, and now believe babar is high quality despite claiming he wasn't a few months back.

All these complicated Shakespeare dialogue isn't needed.

You can be held accountable for things you said in the past, Theirs no hard and fast rule in life that only current events matter.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Warning

Guys, discuss, but don't pass personal comments to each other.

 

[Mamoon]

You cant say with a straight face that Babar or Shaheen or Rizwan are all better all rounders or captains than Imad.

Well I can.

Shaheen has won the PSL twice without having either Babar or Rizwan in his team, the two most prolific and consistent batsmen in PSL by a mile. He has proved to be a better captain than Imad while captaining in the same tournament.

Rizwan has taken Multan to three consecutive PSL Finals. The same Multan that never managed to play a PSL Final in the four seasons before the signed Rizwan.

Babar’s Peshawar finished above the great captain Imad’s Karachi last season.

Here are some more facts.

Imad Wasim as captain without Babar:

10 matches, won 3, lost 7. W/L ratio: 0.43

Babar as captain without Imad:

20 matches, won 11, lost 8. W/L ratio: 1.38

Pain goes straight to Imad cult fans and their fake narrative and propaganda.

Imad is a nothing captain. He is as big a scam as a captain as he is as a cricketer.

The only success that Imad achieved in PSL as captain was because of Babar carried his mediocrity on his back.

Imad had no problem praising Babar’s batting style when he was saving his backside in the PSL but as soon as Babar left Karachi and booted Imad out of the Pakistan team, Imad started criticizing his batting style which shows how big of a hypocrite he is and how he should not be taken seriously because his criticism is fueled by his hatred and toxic agenda.

Last year, Imad had the chance to prove his leadership skills and to put to bed the assertion that he is nothing without Babar, but he led his team to a second from bottom finish and to add insult to injury, he finished below Babar’s Peshawar.

It was the ultimate humiliation for Imad and it pissed Karachi owners so much they ended up kicking him out.

 

[Mamoon]

Just say you changed your mind man, and now believe babar is high quality despite claiming he wasn't a few months back.

All these complicated Shakespeare dialogue isn't needed.

You can be held accountable for things you said in the past, Theirs no hard and fast rule in life that only current events matter.

You can say what you want. I will say what I want.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar is the better player and far more crucial to us in every format.

However Imad and Babar aren’t competing for the same positions. The guys Imad is competing against are way worse than Imad. And Imad still deserved a place in the side, as does Babar.

It’s a shame these guys don’t get on so much perhaps. But I don’t think Babar even made the initial call to drop imad years ago anyway.

Babar and imad fulfill different roles.

Imad is single handidely far superior then nawaz ever will be and nawaz was the replacement chosen for Imad, not shadab or Shaheen or Asif thay for some reason people wish to highlight other players.

Nawaz was the one who replaced imad in the Nz odi series despite inad being chosen as frontline for the t20 game with nawaz being the water boy.

So I don't understand all this hate when the conversation wasn't even about bringing imad back, it was more about his unfair removal and choosing nawaz instead.

You don't remove a supposedly average player and replace him with someone who can't bat and competes with Joe root for bowling.

Similarly babar was always our main no 3, he deserved no 3 in all formats, but fans rightfully got angry when he brought himself to open, doing that weakened the middle and lower order and he shouldn't have been so milestones obsessed, Babar needed to fulfil his duties as all format no 3, but as a player he's good.

 

[PakEngFan]

Brother, Babar has proved one thing in his Career, his inability to strike at over 100sr unless the team is bare basic like Nepal or the bowlers are useless, and his inability to properly open in t20.

The champions trophy pitch was not easy, the pitch Massively favoured legspin and swing. The outfield being fast has no correlation to the actual pitch itself.

Then don't have this discussion and press me 24/7, I'm tired of reading comments and addressing every reply because you want my attention.

Comments such as

" Babar can hit 6 fours in a super over"

Or

" Give me an example of Imad single handidely winning an 11 man game"

Or

" Give me an example of a better opener then rizwan"

You didn't address anything which I said. I will take it you don't have an answer.

 

[mominsaigol]

You can say what you want. I will say what I want.

Brother you just said you changed your mind from a few months back that's all.

you changed your opinion that's all.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don’t think you understand what average means if you think Babar is an average batsman.

He is quite clearly, a high quality batsman no matter how you look at it.

It is debate how good he really is and how good you think he is.

He has 1 or 2 defining knocks in his career against top tier sides?

Has no impact in tests?

Has no gears?

What makes you think he is a great batsmen?

What laurels has he produced for Pakistan so far?

Besides his heavily padded average against Nepals and Ugandas, when it comes to impact how is he any better than Ijaz Ahmed of Pakistan?


Some pondering questions for you when you vacillate and suddenly change your mind to
"He is a very good batsmen" .

I know you say that just to humilate Imad but Imad doesnt need humiliation as he is never a batsmen as good as Babar. But as a package, he offers the same as Babar does over the years with his control and lower order runs.

Prove me wrong by answering those basic questions I threw out from the top of my head while trying to give credit to Babar as much as possible.

 

[mominsaigol]

You didn't address anything which I said. I will take it you don't have an answer.

I'm trying to respect what I have been told and clearly I can't do that in a conversion with you.

 

[Mamoon]

He has 1 or 2 defining knocks in his career against top tier sides?

Has no impact in tests?

Has no gears?

What makes you think he is a great batsmen?

What laurels has he produced for Pakistan so far?

Besides his heavily padded average against Nepals and Ugandas, when it comes to impact how is he any better than Ijaz Ahmed of Pakistan?


Some pondering questions for you when you vacillate and suddenly change your mind to
"He is a very good batsmen" .

I know you say that just to humilate Imad but Imad doesnt need humiliation as he is never a batsmen as good as Babar. But as a package, he offers the same as Babar does over the years with his control and lower order runs.

Prove me wrong by answering those basic questions I threw out from the top of my head while trying to give credit to Babar as much as possible.

Before we can have a discussion on how good Babar is or isn’t, you need to retract your statement that he is “average”.

If you say that Babar is a very good batsman but not a great batsman, that is fine. We can have a discussion on whether he is very good or great.

But you can’t possibly initiate a serious and honest discussion if you are going to call him average.

Average batsmen that have played for Pakistan in recent years would be Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Umar Amin, Khurram Manzoor, Sharjeel, Nasir Jamshed, Sohaib Maqsood etc.

I don’t need to explain to you or anyone else why Babar is a much better batsman than this guys and is a complete joke to call him average.

At the very least, he belongs in the “very good” category even if you don’t rate him at all or worse, hate him from the bottom of your heart.

Imad offers the same as Babar as an overall package? That is complete nonsense too. Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar’s boots.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Well I can.

Shaheen has won the PSL twice without having either Babar or Rizwan in his team, the two most prolific and consistent batsmen in PSL by a mile. He has proved to be a better captain than Imad while captaining in the same tournament.

Rizwan has taken Multan to three consecutive PSL Finals. The same Multan that never managed to play a PSL Final in the four seasons before the signed Rizwan.

Babar’s Peshawar finished above the great captain Imad’s Karachi last season.

Here are some more facts.

Imad Wasim as captain without Babar:

10 matches, won 3, lost 7. W/L ratio: 0.43

Babar as captain without Imad:

20 matches, won 11, lost 8. W/L ratio: 1.38

Pain goes straight to Imad cult fans and their fake narrative and propaganda.

Imad is a nothing captain. He is as big a scam as a captain as he is as a cricketer.

The only success that Imad achieved in PSL as captain was because of Babar carried his mediocrity on his back.

Imad had no problem praising Babar’s batting style when he was saving his backside in the PSL but as soon as Babar left Karachi and booted Imad out of the Pakistan team, Imad started criticizing his batting style which shows how big of a hypocrite he is and how he should not be taken seriously because his criticism is fueled by his hatred and toxic agenda.

Last year, Imad had the chance to prove his leadership skills and to put to bed the assertion that he is nothing without Babar, but he led his team to a second from bottom finish and to add insult to injury, he finished below Babar’s Peshawar.

It was the ultimate humiliation for Imad and it pissed Karachi owners so much they ended up kicking him out.

Winning the PSL is not a benchmark of captains abilities.

What has Babar won for Pakistan in internationals? You do realize Babar was a terrible captain for Pakistan during his tenure.

I rememeber you saying that no matter who captains Pakistan, Pakistan will be terrible during the tournaments. That was your mantra every day.

Now suddenly, Shaheen and Babar and Rizwan are all better captains for Pakistan based on PSL performances ?

And Imad is terrible than all of them because somehow captains actually do matter for results?

You might just as well say you are going to keep bashing Imad because it is "open season" and Imad is the flavour of the town.

I rememeber you had your open season against Shadab in the World Cup as Pakistans front line spinner and you bashed him like anything.

So its Imads turn now ?

Who is next?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Before we can have a discussion on how good Babar is or isn’t, you need to retract your statement that he is “average”.

If you say that Babar is a very good batsman but not a great batsman, that is fine. We can have a discussion on whether he is very good or great.

But you can’t possibly initiate a serious and honest discussion if you are going to call him average.

Average batsmen that have played for Pakistan in recent years would be Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Umar Amin, Khurram Manzoor, Sharjeel, Nasir Jamshed, Sohaib Maqsood etc.

I don’t need to explain to you or anyone else why Babar is a much better batsman than this guys and is a complete joke to call him average.

At the very least, he belongs in the “very good” category even if you don’t rate him at all or worse, hate him from the bottom of your heart.

Imad offers the same as Babar as an overall package? That is complete nonsense too. Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar’s boots.

I will reconsider my statement once you manage to answer some of my questions.

You have to prove to me I need to change my mind based on what I just said.

However, you are asking me to reconsider my statement without offering a single iota of information or answers as to why you think I should change.

Houdini is my favorite person as well.

 

[Mamoon]

Winning the PSL is not a benchmark of captains abilities.

What has Babar won for Pakistan in internationals? You do realize Babar was a terrible captain for Pakistan during his tenure.

I rememeber you saying that no matter who captains Pakistan, Pakistan will be terrible during the tournaments. That was your mantra every day.

Now suddenly, Shaheen and Babar and Rizwan are all better captains for Pakistan based on PSL performances ?

You might just as well say you are going to keep bashing Imad because it is "open season" and Imad is the flavour of the town.

I rememeber you had your open season against Shadab in the World Cup as Pakistans front line spinner and you bashed him like anything.

So its Imads turn now ?

Who is next?

The best measure of how good people are relative to each other is when you see how they perform in the same conditions.

It doesn’t matter what Babar has done or not done in international cricket as captain. Imad hasn’t captain in Pakistan so a comparison cannot be established.

But both have captained in PSL and Babar’s W/L ratio without Imad holding him back is better than Imad’s W/L ratio without Babar carrying him. This shows that the narrative that Imad is some great captain and a much better leader has no substance.

Similarly, Imad has done nothing that to support the narrative that he is a better captain than Shaheen or Rizwan, so your statement that no one can say with a straight face that Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen are better captains than Imad is not backed by anything. It is just your whim.

I would agree that lifting the trophy itself is not the benchmark of captaincy, but neither is finishing second last and below Babar’s Peshawar in spite of having the extra motivation of proving that you don’t Babar to carry you.

All myths and narratives surrounded Imad’s leadership ended in the 2023 season when Imad had a golden chance to prove that he didn’t need Babar and he failed with flying colors.

 

[PakEngFan]

Before we can have a discussion on how good Babar is or isn’t, you need to retract your statement that he is “average”.

If you say that Babar is a very good batsman but not a great batsman, that is fine. We can have a discussion on whether he is very good or great.

But you can’t possibly initiate a serious and honest discussion if you are going to call him average.

Average batsmen that have played for Pakistan in recent years would be Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Umar Amin, Khurram Manzoor, Sharjeel, Nasir Jamshed, Sohaib Maqsood etc.

I don’t need to explain to you or anyone else why Babar is a much better batsman than this guys and is a complete joke to call him average.

At the very least, he belongs in the “very good” category even if you don’t rate him at all or worse, hate him from the bottom of your heart.

Imad offers the same as Babar as an overall package? That is complete nonsense too. Imad is not worthy of lacing Babar’s boots.

What Imad offers the same as Babar as an overall package?

 

[PakEngFan]

The best measure of how good people are relative to each other is when you see how they perform in the same conditions.

It doesn’t matter what Babar has done or not done in international cricket as captain. Imad hasn’t captain in Pakistan so a comparison cannot be established.

But both have captained in PSL and Babar’s W/L ratio without Imad holding him back is better than Imad’s W/L ratio without Babar carrying him. This shows that the narrative that Imad is some great captain and a much better leader has no substance.

Similarly, Imad has done nothing that to support the narrative that he is a better captain than Shaheen or Rizwan, so your statement that no one can say with a straight face that Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen are better captains than Imad is not backed by anything. It is just your whim.

I would agree that lifting the trophy itself is not the benchmark of captaincy, but neither is finishing second last and below Babar’s Peshawar in spite of having the extra motivation of proving that you don’t Babar to carry you.

All myths and narratives surrounded Imad’s leadership ended in the 2023 season when Imad had a golden chance to prove that he didn’t need Babar and he failed with flying colors.

I believe Imad did captain Pakistan against Australia for a couple of matches before the 19 world cup against Australia C and I think he lost both games. Guess what same posters bash Babar for winning against the Australia c.

 

[Mamoon]

I will reconsider my statement once you manage to answer some of my questions.

You have to prove to me I need to change my mind based on what I just said.

However, you are asking me to reconsider my statement without offering a single iota of information or answers as to why you think I should change.

Houdini is my favorite person as well.

You have not asked any questions whose answers can prove that Babar is an average batsman because he is clearly not an average batsman. He is much better than average.

Even Houdini cannot escape the hole that you have dug for yourself by calling him average. It is not even laughable, it is just ridiculous. It is complete drivel.

A batsman who averages 45, 56, 41 in Tests, ODIs and T20Is and is en route to scoring 50+ international hundreds cannot be “average” by any measure.

Even if he does not fulfill your criteria of greatness and world class status, which we can of course debate and dissect, he is still much better than “average”.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What Imad offers the same as Babar as an overall package?

I will ask you the same difficult questions that posters evade.

No impact in tests?

More match defining knocks than Ijaz Ahmed in his career?

What does he bring to table besides his heavily inflated average against C and B sides and Nepalese hundreds?

Performance as captain of the team?

What fortunes has he changed for the side since he has come to bat?

I am all for personal glory and milestones but they should be backed by some results.

Looking pretty and scoring a sumptuous cover drive doesnt help you reach elite category.

Sorry.

 

[mominsaigol]

I will ask you the same difficult questions that posters evade.

No impact in tests?

More match defining knocks than Ijaz Ahmed in his career?

What does he bring to table besides his heavily inflated average against C and B sides and Nepalese hundreds?

Performance as captain of the team?

What fortunes has he changed for the side since he has come to bat?

I am all for personal glory and milestones but they should be backed by some results.

Looking pretty and scoring a sumptuous cover drive doesnt help you reach elite category.

Sorry.

Babar is only HQ for Pakistani standards.

World standards he doesn't even come close.

 

[PakEngFan]

I will ask you the same difficult questions that posters evade.

No impact in tests?

More match defining knocks than Ijaz Ahmed in his career?

What does he bring to table besides his heavily inflated average against C and B sides and Nepalese hundreds?

Performance as captain of the team?

What fortunes has he changed for the side since he has come to bat?

I am all for personal glory and milestones but they should be backed by some results.

Looking pretty and scoring a sumptuous cover drive doesnt help you reach elite category.

Sorry.

Let Imad play test first before even comparing and talking about as an overall package. Forget anything else.

 

[topspin]

If anyone who thinks it wasn't a one man show in that Psl then. They are being dishonest. Babar carried them and without him they wouldn't have won. Babar is a rubbish captain and is rightly replaced. The irony is you mock Babar but he's the reason why Imad even won Psl in first place.

It was not a one man show because Babar was not even in the best batsman for his team. This has already been disproven in posts #170 and 171. If you disagree with it, I would appreciate if you could respond to these posts and explain why you disagree with it. That's all I ask.

I will respond to you post 66. If you can tell me Imad match winning performances? Other then the 25 lol.

If you scroll up, you mentioned "I never asked him to give me a game where he single handedly won a game for Pakistan" and now you're asking the very same question (except you've reworded it)

Let's face it you just don't want to acknowledge any of his accomplishments, which is why you're back to asking for this same nonsense again.

You called Babar substandard and when questioned you said my post was edited by the mods. Even for sake of argument you didn't call him that.

If you revisit that post, you'll see for yourself it's shown as "edited".

My original statement was "Anyone who vouches for Imam-ul-Haq has zero credibility, particularly if they have an appetite for substandard players like Ahmed Shehzad and an inept captain in Babar Azam". I still stand by this.

The words underlined were removed from the original post.

I have never claimed Babar is a substandard player. Is he an overrated/overhyped player? Yes, no doubt about that and we both agree that is captaincy was substandard.

You spread most of the hating on Babar while he's million times the player Imad could ever be.

I hate his captaincy and how selfish he is. His selfishness has been called out not just by Imad but also by Wasim Akram and Simon Doull. They can't all be wrong.

I consider you to be a confused supporter of Pakistan cricket. The reason I say this is because you share the same anti-Imad agenda as the RizBar cult but your views in general are not really aligned with the cult.

 

[topspin]

Just say you changed your mind man, and now believe babar is high quality despite claiming he wasn't a few months back.

All these complicated Shakespeare dialogue isn't needed.

You can be held accountable for things you said in the past, Theirs no hard and fast rule in life that only current events matter.

I'm glad you've seen it for yourself now. His views will be tailored for the audience. It's for this reason why I can't take him seriously with all his flip flopping.

It's only a matter of time when he slags off the Pakistan team and do a 180 and be dismissive of Babar.

When your credibility is exposed and you resort to lame coping mechanisms, this is what it looks like:

WhAt I sAiD oR dIdN’T sAy DoEsN’T rEaLlY mAtTeR. mAyBe I sAiD tHiNgS aT a DiFfErEnT tImE iN a DiFfErEnT pLaCe. ThE oNlY tHiNg ThAt MaTtErS tO mE iS wHaT i Am SaYiNg In PrEsEnT aNd ThAt Is WhAt I aM aCcOuNtAbLe FoR.

 

[topspin]

Winning the PSL is not a benchmark of captains abilities.

What has Babar won for Pakistan in internationals? You do realize Babar was a terrible captain for Pakistan during his tenure.

I rememeber you saying that no matter who captains Pakistan, Pakistan will be terrible during the tournaments. That was your mantra every day.

Now suddenly, Shaheen and Babar and Rizwan are all better captains for Pakistan based on PSL performances ?

And Imad is terrible than all of them because somehow captains actually do matter for results?

You might just as well say you are going to keep bashing Imad because it is "open season" and Imad is the flavour of the town.

I rememeber you had your open season against Shadab in the World Cup as Pakistans front line spinner and you bashed him like anything.

So its Imads turn now ?

Who is next?

The funny thing is he was an advocate for Imad in the Pakistan team prior to the 2023 WC. All he's doing is tailoring his views for his audience. Like @mominsaigol - I'm glad you see it as well.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm glad you've seen it for yourself now. His views will be tailored for the audience. It's for this reason why I can't take him seriously with all his flip flopping.

It's only a matter of time when he slags off the Pakistan team and do a 180 and be dismissive of Babar.

When your credibility is exposed and you resort to lame coping mechanisms, this is what it looks like:

WhAt I sAiD oR dIdN’T sAy DoEsN’T rEaLlY mAtTeR. mAyBe I sAiD tHiNgS aT a DiFfErEnT tImE iN a DiFfErEnT pLaCe. ThE oNlY tHiNg ThAt MaTtErS tO mE iS wHaT i Am SaYiNg In PrEsEnT aNd ThAt Is WhAt I aM aCcOuNtAbLe FoR.

Lol ik, this is like if I said in the past that the world is round, and now a few months after I say the world is flat, I'm somehow not liable for others to point out that I literally contradicted myself because the past no longer matters

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Imad Wasim ends up with a decent spell for IU against PZ in the Eliminator 2, went wicketless but bowled superbly with the final figure of 0/23 in 4 overs.

 

[PakEngFan]

It was not a one man show because Babar was not even in the best batsman for his team. This has already been disproven in posts #170 and 171. If you disagree with it, I would appreciate if you could respond to these posts and explain why you disagree with it. That's all I ask.



If you scroll up, you mentioned "I never asked him to give me a game where he single handedly won a game for Pakistan" and now you're asking the very same question (except you've reworded it)

Let's face it you just don't want to acknowledge any of his accomplishments, which is why you're back to asking for this same nonsense again.



If you revisit that post, you'll see for yourself it's shown as "edited".

My original statement was "Anyone who vouches for Imam-ul-Haq has zero credibility, particularly if they have an appetite for substandard players like Ahmed Shehzad and an inept captain in Babar Azam". I still stand by this.

The words underlined were removed from the original post.

I have never claimed Babar is a substandard player. Is he an overrated/overhyped player? Yes, no doubt about that and we both agree that is captaincy was substandard.



I hate his captaincy and how selfish he is. His selfishness has been called out not just by Imad but also by Wasim Akram and Simon Doull. They can't all be wrong.

I consider you to be a confused supporter of Pakistan cricket. The reason I say this is because you share the same anti-Imad agenda as the RizBar cult but your views in general are not really aligned with the cult.

Babar was ahead by 150 runs from the second best batsmen but yes he wasn't even the best in his team.

 

[Major]

i used to bash Afridi for being a single wicket per match bowler, but today Imad's stats were shared and he has played like 90 games and has only 50ish wickets.

 

[topspin]

Babar was ahead by 150 runs from the second best batsmen but yes he wasn't even the best in his team.

Great analysis. All you could come up is with is an one line response.

You conveniently ignored the fact that he had the worst strike rate out of all the top 10 run scorers during that season.

He was not even the best batsman in his team. As I've said to you before, this has already been disproven in posts #170 and 171. However, I'm not going to ask you respond to these posts because we've established that this is well beyond your capabilities, as evident by your one liner in response.

 

[PakEngFan]

Great analysis. All you could come up is with is an one line response.

You conveniently ignored the fact that he had the worst strike rate out of all the top 10 run scorers during that season.

He was not even the best batsman in his team. As I've said to you before, this has already been disproven in posts #170 and 171. However, I'm not going to ask you respond to these posts because we've established that this is well beyond your capabilities, as evident by your one liner in response.

I don't need to write essays explaining the difference between 150 runs which is clearly beyond your capabilities as for you 25 is match winning in first place.

 

[Rana]

i used to bash Afridi for being a single wicket per match bowler, but today Imad's stats were shared and he has played like 90 games and has only 50ish wickets.

What’s he supposed to do if Babar is too scared to hit him?

 

[topspin]

What’s he supposed to do if Babar is too scared to hit him?

Imagine being an ISLU fan and saying this in response to your most economical bowler, who's the reason why ISLU are chasing 186 and not 200+.

 

[MenInG]

Once again, if you have run out of things to say on this topic, best to move on.

Taking personal potshots at each other is boring for others to read.