[EXCLUSIVE] "You never know, I can take my retirement back": Imad Wasim

[Mamoon]

@Mamoon

Be a man now, cause ik you have a habit of vanishing during these periods.

If your babar and imad agenda over? I kept telling everyone, Babar is NOT a t20 bat and sr is an issue and imad is still to this day pakistan's best lower order finisher.

@PakEngFan GG as well.

Now kindly let it rest here. And focus on MS vs IU game next.

What agenda are we talking about here?

• I have a problem with people calling Babar an "average" batsman when he is quite clearly, far, far better than being average. You can't be average and score the amount of runs that he scored in all formats.
  
  
• I have a problem with people peddling this fake narrative that Imad is some great captain and wasn't carried on his back by Babar when Imad's W/L ratio as captain without Babar in the team is awful.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Babar and Imad are equal as cricketers when they are not. Babar is in a different class to Imad. There is no comparison between the two even if we ignore the apples to oranges comparison.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Imad should have played every LOI match for Pakistan in the last couple of years when he averages 65 with the ball vs the top 5 sides in ODIs whilst playing as a frontline bowler and not a 6th option.
  
  Please point out the agenda here, and you can also call @Rana for @topspin for support.

 

[Mamoon]

The truth is Babar can have a thousand lives and he wouldn't be able to play a knock like this under pressure in a semi final of a T20 match.

So what should we do with this assertion and how do you want us to interpret it?

Do you think Haider is a better batsman than Babar or do you think you would rather have Haider in a pressure game than Babar or both?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What agenda are we talking about here?

• I have a problem with people calling Babar an "average" batsman when he is quite clearly, far, far better than being average. You can't be average and score the amount of runs that he scored in all formats.
  
  
• I have a problem with people peddling this fake narrative that Imad is some great captain and wasn't carried on his back by Babar when Imad's W/L ratio as captain without Babar in the team is awful.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Babar and Imad are equal as cricketers when they are not. Babar is in a different class to Imad. There is no comparison between the two even if we ignore the apples to oranges comparison.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Imad should have played every LOI match for Pakistan in the last couple of years when he averages 65 with the ball vs the top 5 sides in ODIs whilst playing as a frontline bowler and not a 6th option.
  
  Please point out the agenda here, and you can also call @Rana for @topspin for support.

What does he average with the bat?

 

[topspin]

The truth is Babar can have a thousand lives and he wouldn't be able to play a knock like this under pressure in a semi final of a T20 match.

I would never trust Babar to deliver when the stakes are high. He's a mental midget who feasts on soft runs against C/D tier and minnow bowling attacks.

 

[Mamoon]

The drama of Imad's great captaincy ended when he led Karachi to a second last finish in PSL 2023 without Babar in the team. The fact that Babar's Peshawar finished above his Karachi added insult to injury.

It was a golden chance for Imad to prove his captaincy credentials and also disprove the assertion that he was dependent on Babar's runs. Imad's captaincy myth started in 2020 when Babar carried him to the title and ended in 2023 when he got badly exposed without Babar.

I will not listen to anyone tell me about his captaincy and leadership in 2024 when the myth died out in 2023.

 

[mominsaigol]

Why does every babar and rizzu fan have memory loss?

What

What agenda are we talking about here?

• I have a problem with people calling Babar an "average" batsman when he is quite clearly, far, far better than being average. You can't be average and score the amount of runs that he scored in all formats.
  
  
• I have a problem with people peddling this fake narrative that Imad is some great captain and wasn't carried on his back by Babar when Imad's W/L ratio as captain without Babar in the team is awful.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Babar and Imad are equal as cricketers when they are not. Babar is in a different class to Imad. There is no comparison between the two even if we ignore the apples to oranges comparison.
  
  
• I have a problem with people saying that Imad should have played every LOI match for Pakistan in the last couple of years when he averages 65 with the ball vs the top 5 sides in ODIs whilst playing as a frontline bowler and not a 6th option.
  
  Please point out the agenda here, and you can also call @Rana for @topspin for support.

You're shoving words into my mouth, I never was even a part of this so called agenda or any of these debates you had with others.

I clearly stated 3 issues and you made the most silly comments towards them.

1) I notified your contradictions about Babar to which you replied the past does not matter and you can't be held accountable which is blatantly false.

2) The area that I was addressing is where you clearly verbatim stated that imad was possibly the worst person to represent PSL 9 @topspin already showed me the message, which was Blatantly proven false.

3) Lastly my final topic wasn't discussed with you about Babar, I never brought babar into Amy discussion with you beyond just questioning your past contradictions but about babar, my voewpoint that i stated to others is that he's not a good t20 opener, his odi and test stats are irrelevant, it's as simple as that.

You don't need to be a genius to figure it that he's a liability as an opener especially with his record lowest sr this season so he can stat pad his way to the top, he hasn't actually won anything for Pz.

 

[topspin]

Bowling averages, particularly in T20 cricket are an overrated and rather old fashioned metric to measure bowlers of today.

Imad's bowling display in today's game is a case in point. He got no wickets but to concede just 23 runs from 4 overs (less than run a ball) is the reason why PZ couldn't score 200, which would've been beyond ISLU's capacity to chase. Well having said that, who knows when the opposition captain is Babar.

This is the last time I ever want to hear anyone talk about Imad's bowling average.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

So what should we do with this assertion and how do you want us to interpret it?

Do you think Haider is a better batsman than Babar or do you think you would rather have Haider in a pressure game than Babar or both?

Imad is a bigger match winner than Babar for Pakistan in my truthful opinion.

Haider is a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high.

Babar is a better player for Pakistan then both when playing in bilateral matches or when facing C and D class versions of big teams.

Babar being in the team does not change the outcome of the match. A losing side will continue to lose and a winning side will continue to win despite his contributions.

Imad being in the team can change the innings positively or negatively based on his performance.

Similar for Haider.

If Babar is still better because of his 41 average in T20, 56 in ODI and 45 in tests as you so eloquently stated before, I have no problems with your opinion.

But you got my opinion.

And my thoughts.

 

[Mamoon]

What does he average with the bat?

He could average 100 for all I care, but you can't have such stats as a frontline bowler and expect to not be dropped. Imad's numbers with the ball in ODIs would put a part-timer to shame. You could throw the ball to Babar himself and he would probably produce better returns.

Imad's bowling woes in ODIs would be acceptable if he was a 6th bowling option and not playing as one of the 5 frontline bowlers expected to deliver 10 overs in almost every innings.

Take the batting equivalent of Imad in ODIs - would you be okay with an all-rounder who averages 25-30 with the ball which is clearly decent but averages 15 with the bat against the top sides while batting in the top four?

You clearly won't be, because such a player is proving to be a massive liability in one of his two core skills and his net effect on the team is negative.

 

[Mamoon]

Imad is a bigger match winner than Babar for Pakistan in my truthful opinion.

Haider is a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high.

Babar is a better player for Pakistan then both when playing in bilateral matches or when facing C and D class versions of big teams.

Babar being in the team does not change the outcome of the match. A losing side will continue to lose and a winning side will continue to win despite his contributions.

Imad being in the team can change the innings positively or negatively based on his performance.

Similar for Haider.

If Babar is still better because of his 41 average in T20, 56 in ODI and 45 in tests as you so eloquently stated before, I have no problems with your opinion.

But you got my opinion.

And my thoughts.

Can you please quote examples of Pakistan's matches where the stakes were high and Haider got Pakistan over the line?

Surely, if you can confidently say that Haider id a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high, you already have examples to support your claim. If you don't have examples, what is the basis of this assertion?

You can say it is your opinion which is fair enough, but what good is an opinion if is not backed by a shred of evidence or a supporting example?

 

[mominsaigol]

He could average 100 for all I care, but you can't have such stats as a frontline bowler and expect to not be dropped. Imad's numbers with the ball in ODIs would put a part-timer to shame. You could throw the ball to Babar himself and he would probably produce better returns.

Imad's bowling woes in ODIs would be acceptable if he was a 6th bowling option and not playing as one of the 5 frontline bowlers expected to deliver 10 overs in almost every innings.

Take the batting equivalent of Imad in ODIs - would you be okay with an all-rounder who averages 25-30 with the ball which is clearly decent but averages 15 with the bat against the top sides while batting in the top four?

You clearly won't be, because such a player is proving to be a massive liability in one of his two core skills and his net effect on the team is negative.

No, bur we'd rather have him if clowns like shadab and nawaz are his front line replacements.

Either give someone better then imad or don't question his placement in the team.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Can you please quote examples of Pakistan's matches where the stakes were high and Haider got Pakistan over the line?

Surely, if you can confidently say that Haider id a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high, you already have examples to support your claim. If you don't have examples, what is the basis of this assertion?

You can say it is your opinion which is fair enough, but what good is an opinion if is not backed by a shred of evidence or a supporting example?

You must have missed today's match 91-5 to 191-5 within 6-7 overs while Babar was open-mouthed like a goldfish.

 

[Mamoon]

I am so glad you keep a record of everything.

You're the best fam. Makes it so much easier for me to address each amd every counter.

Speaking of which Mamoon is gone into the Abyss

Why would I go into abyss when my contributions to this forum are bigger than what you, topspin and all others can manage in a hundred years? I have nothing to prove to anyone but I won't let toxic agendas fly by me.

 

[mominsaigol]

Why would I go into abyss when my contributions to this forum are bigger than what you, topspin and all others can manage in a hundred years? I have nothing to prove to anyone but I won't let toxic agendas fly by me.

Wait, you think commenting more means you contributed towards something valuable amd somehow that gives you some sort of moral highground?

Major ego bruh moment.

 

[topspin]

You must have missed today's match 91-5 to 191-5 within 6-7 overs while Babar was open-mouthed like a goldfish.

Don't forget the tantrums as well.

 

[Mamoon]

You must have missed today's match 91-5 to 191-5 within 6-7 overs while Babar was open-mouthed like a goldfish.

I repeat what you said:

Haider is a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high.

The logical dissection of this question is to talk about performances for the Pakistan national team. What has Haider Ali doing it for Islamabad United after a gazillion failures got anything to do with Pakistan?

Haider Ali has padded up 34 times for Pakistan - can you please quote examples from those matches to support your statement?

 

[mominsaigol]

Don't forget the tantrums as well.

No fam, we can't comment against him, Mamoon has more comments therefore he's God. He's unquestionable.

Weird logic I swear.

 

[AAli98]

Haider, Imad and young Jamal, future of Pak cricket..

 

[Mamoon]

No, bur we'd rather have him if clowns like shadab and nawaz are his front line replacements.

Either give someone better then imad or don't question his placement in the team.

Imad and Shadab were never competing for the same spot because one is a leggie and the other a SLA. Imad's competition was Nawaz after Imad's junk performances with the ball, Nawaz deserved a run because you need to have an accountability culture.

Nawaz has also been poor and now the logical move is to look for someone else and not go back to Imad because we have already established that his bowling would put a part-timer to shame.

Pakistan really needs to move on from the likes of Imad and Nawaz for good. It is 2024.

 

[RyanRyan10]

He could average 100 for all I care, but you can't have such stats as a frontline bowler and expect to not be dropped. Imad's numbers with the ball in ODIs would put a part-timer to shame. You could throw the ball to Babar himself and he would probably produce better returns.

Imad's bowling woes in ODIs would be acceptable if he was a 6th bowling option and not playing as one of the 5 frontline bowlers expected to deliver 10 overs in almost every innings.

Take the batting equivalent of Imad in ODIs - would you be okay with an all-rounder who averages 25-30 with the ball which is clearly decent but averages 15 with the bat against the top sides while batting in the top four?

You clearly won't be, because such a player is proving to be a massive liability in one of his two core skills and his net effect on the team is negative.

I remember you used to say Imad is underappreciated on this forum and found him better than both Shadab and Nawaz. What changed now?

 

[Mamoon]

I see a lot of BS about Babar not carrying Karachi to the title in 2020. It was literally a one man show. It was the most dominant individual performance ever by a player in PSL to date.

Those who are moaning about his SR should look at the scorecard for the final and come back.

 

[mominsaigol]

Imad and Shadab were never competing for the same spot because one is a leggie and the other a SLA. Imad's competition was Nawaz after Imad's junk performances with the ball, Nawaz deserved a run because you need to have an accountability culture.

Nawaz has also been poor and now the logical move is to look for someone else and not go back to Imad because we have already established that his bowling would put a part-timer to shame.

Pakistan really needs to move on from the likes of Imad and Nawaz for good. It is 2024.

The final part I agree with, my main point was you don't replace someone for someone more pathetic.

Nawaz wasn't established to be superior, he never was and imad was removed for political agendas not for performance, despite being medicore in 2019 only with the ball, he still had match winning contributions with the bat thay were 100x superior to what nawaz could do as he's a failure with both ball and bat.

As for babar, he was nowhere close to being the best captain of the tournament, his own contributions via opening caused a loss + bringing jamal out to bowl at the worst possible time.

Saim ayub opening the bowling isn't a stroke of genuis from babar, guptill literally thrashed ayub, Bobby got lucky, the other batsmen thay ayub has been bowling to is Sub par.

Doing this in international is career suicide for this kid. Idk what you're on about.

 

[mominsaigol]

I remember you used to say Imad is underappreciated on this forum and found him better than both Shadab and Nawaz. What changed now?

Complete 360.

 

[Mamoon]

I remember you used to say Imad is underappreciated on this forum and found him better than both Shadab and Nawaz. What changed now?

I don't know. A different time, a different place, a different situation. So much can change.

Imad exposed himself for the fraud captain that he is when he failed badly without Babar in the team and he also exposed himself for the hypocrite that he is when he started criticizing Babar's playing style after getting dropped, when the same playing style carried him to the title in 2020.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He could average 100 for all I care, but you can't have such stats as a frontline bowler and expect to not be dropped. Imad's numbers with the ball in ODIs would put a part-timer to shame. You could throw the ball to Babar himself and he would probably produce better returns.

Imad's bowling woes in ODIs would be acceptable if he was a 6th bowling option and not playing as one of the 5 frontline bowlers expected to deliver 10 overs in almost every innings.

Take the batting equivalent of Imad in ODIs - would you be okay with an all-rounder who averages 25-30 with the ball which is clearly decent but averages 15 with the bat against the top sides while batting in the top four?

You clearly won't be, because such a player is proving to be a massive liability in one of his two core skills and his net effect on the team is negative.

I asked you a question that you did not answer because yet again your empty argument has been exposed by multiple people here.

Imad was never a wicket-taker in ODIs. His job was always to stop the flow of runs. Which he has done largely successfully against pretty much all teams. But what he lacked in wicket-taking ability he more than made up with his batting. This might come as a surprise to you but that's what all-rounders do. They are expected to bat and bowl.

 

[topspin]

No fam, we can't comment against him, Mamoon has more comments therefore he's God. He's unquestionable.

Weird logic I swear.

He's been exposed by me and other Arsenal fans in the Arsenal thread. So much so, he’s now been getting ignored by other Arsenal fans on that thread because they have picked up his flip flopping, self-validation and baiting nonsense. His zero credibility is there for everyone to see. Worth reading that thread so you can see it for yourself.

Since then he's been coming after me and making up nonsense about things that I never said such as "Shan is a better player than Babar". My words have been twisted here and what I actually said was Shan is the better captain than Babar and there’s absolutely no doubt about that.

In no time, you’ll realise there are 2 types of posters (broadly speaking) on here. The toxic Misbah/Rizbar supporters and everyone else who actually cares about the greater good of Pakistan cricket.

Last week, he told me "I own this space and no can match my intellect".

After today's events, this is a good opportunity for him to humble himself and take the L with grace but he's decided to go on an ego trip because well let's just say he's still got a bruised ego.

@Amjid Javed

 

[Mamoon]

The final part I agree with, my main point was you don't replace someone for someone more pathetic.

Nawaz wasn't established to be superior, he never was and imad was removed for political agendas not for performance, despite being medicore in 2019 only with the ball, he still had match winning contributions with the bat thay were 100x superior to what nawaz could do as he's a failure with both ball and bat.

As for babar, he was nowhere close to being the best captain of the tournament, his own contributions via opening caused a loss + bringing jamal out to bowl at the worst possible time.

Saim ayub opening the bowling isn't a stroke of genuis from babar, guptill literally thrashed ayub, Bobby got lucky, the other batsmen thay ayub has been bowling to is Sub par.

Doing this in international is career suicide for this kid. Idk what you're on about.

I don't think Saim would be opening the bowling in international cricket and I don't think he has significant potential with the ball either, but it was a genius move by Babar in the context of this tournament.

Zalmi has a poor attack, probably the worst in the tournament, and he needed to do something innovative. Saim brought a surprise factor with the ball. It was very clever captaincy by Babar and he deserves to be acknowledged for it.

Masood and Imad fans would be doing bhangra if Ayub played for a franchise captained by them and had opened the bowling and taken the wickets that he did, but no one wants to give Babar any credit for it because praising a tactical move by Babar doesn't suit our narrative and is not part of the script.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know. A different time, a different place, a different situation. So much can change.

Imad exposed himself for the fraud captain that he is when he failed badly without Babar in the team and he also exposed himself for the hypocrite that he is when he started criticizing Babar's playing style after getting dropped, when the same playing style carried him to the title in 2020.

So you basically don't like him because he said some things you didn't like? Wow you really have a knack of thinking logically and rationally about cricket.

 

[mominsaigol]

He's been exposed by me and other Arsenal fans in the Arsenal thread. So much so, he’s now been getting ignored by other Arsenal fans on that thread because they have picked up his flip flopping, self-validation and baiting nonsense. His zero credibility is there for everyone to see. Worth reading that thread so you can see it for yourself.

Since then he's been coming after me and making up nonsense about things that I never said such as "Shan is a better player than Babar". My words have been twisted here and what I actually said was Shan is the better captain than Babar and there’s absolutely no doubt about that.

In no time, you’ll realise there are 2 types of posters (broadly speaking) on here. The toxic Misbah/Rizbar supporters and everyone else who actually cares about the greater good of Pakistan cricket.

Last week, he told me "I own this space and no can match my intellect".

After today's events, this is a good opportunity for him to humble himself and take the L with grace but he's decided to go on an ego trip because well let's just say he's still got a bruised ego.

@Amjid Javed

"I own this space and no one can match my intellect"

I think I've heard this quote from either Code geass, Bleach or UQ holder lol, anime quotes.

Also ik fam, I was the first person who questioned whether you really said shan is better then babar, cause I knew for a fact that the only way you could have said that, is if you made a Sequel to my " If Rizwan the best batsmen thread, but this time with shan masood, to mess with people" .

 

[topspin]

I remember you used to say Imad is underappreciated on this forum and found him better than both Shadab and Nawaz. What changed now?

Bang on. He was an advocate of Imad prior to the 2023 WC.

I'm glad you've seen this for yourself as well. His views will be tailored for his audience. It's for this reason why he can't be taken seriously.

It's only a matter of time when he slags off the Pakistan team and does a 180 and becomes dismissive of Babar.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't think Saim would be opening the bowling in international cricket and I don't think he has significant potential with the ball either, but it was a genius move by Babar in the context of this tournament.

Zalmi has a poor attack, probably the worst in the tournament, and he needed to do something innovative. Saim brought a surprise factor with the ball. It was very clever captaincy by Babar and he deserves to be acknowledged for it.

Masood and Imad fans would be doing bhangra if Ayub played for a franchise captained by them and had opened the bowling and taken the wickets that he did, but no one wants to give Babar any credit for it because praising a tactical move by Babar doesn't suit our narrative and is not part of the script.

Thats fair, the saim point is valid, all I'm saying is, that it's a risky gamble, regardless Babar's own sr was at fault here.

His captaincy also wasn't exactly the best in this game either. Jamal was already getting tonked, should have gone for yaqoob, also his field placements were beyond terrible, and he didn't bring any semblance to his team, Babar historically has been soft and cannot calm a team down.

Theirs a reason they panicked and did overthrows etc, this isn't the first time he's been unable to calm a dugout.

You're ignoring all captaincy aspects he failed at, saim ayub opening the bowling isn't his defining feature.

 

[Mamoon]

I asked you a question that you did not answer because yet again your empty argument has been exposed by multiple people here.

Imad was never a wicket-taker in ODIs. His job was always to stop the flow of runs. Which he has done largely successfully against pretty much all teams. But what he lacked in wicket-taking ability he more than made up with his batting. This might come as a surprise to you but that's what all-rounders do. They are expected to bat and bowl.

No, you are posting absolute drivel like you mostly do.

This "his role is this and that" nonsense means absolutely nothing. People come up with this warped logic when they have to defend mediocre players. It is the job of every frontline bowler to take wickets and bowl economically, just like it is the job of every frontline batsmen to score runs and do it at a decent rate.

What did Pakistan achieve in ODIs post the CT vs the top sides with his so-called economical spells?

Besides, Imad did not uproot any trees with his so-called economical spells. His economy rate is 6 vs India and above 5 vs all other top sides except South Africa. It is hardly impressive especially when you combine it with a bowling average that would put a part-timer to shame.

Imad was a liability with the ball in ODIs no matter how you spin it because Imad couldn't (pun intended). Then again, I do expect such nonsense from you because if you are willing to argue that a 34 year old with an average of 28 after 33 Tests deserves to be Test captain, you can also argue that a frontline spinner averaging 65 with the ball vs the top 5 ODI teams deserves to play.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bang on. He was an advocate of Imad prior to the 2023 WC.

I'm glad you've seen this for yourself as well. His views will be tailored for his audience. It's for this reason why he can't be taken seriously.

It's only a matter of time when he slags off the Pakistan team and does a 180 and becomes dismissive of Babar.

Tis but a different time and place.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Some credit goes to Shadab for having the skill to unlock some performances from Imad.

 

[Mamoon]

Thats fair, the saim point is valid, all I'm saying is, that it's a risky gamble, regardless Babar's own sr was at fault here.

His captaincy also wasn't exactly the best in this game either. Jamal was already getting tonked, should have gone for yaqoob, also his field placements were beyond terrible, and he didn't bring any semblance to his team, Babar historically has been soft and cannot calm a team down.

Theirs a reason they panicked and did overthrows etc, this isn't the first time he's been unable to calm a dugout.

You're ignoring all captaincy aspects he failed at, saim ayub opening the bowling isn't his defining feature.

See it wasn't that difficult. It took a lot of tongue-biting but you finally mustered the courage to admit that Babar showed great tactical nous by opening the bowling with Saim.

Now please repeat after me:

"Babar is the best captain of this tournament because of the way he has managed his weak bowling resources in this tournament. Imad was badly exposed as captain last year without Babar."

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No, you are posting absolute drivel like you mostly do.

This "his role is this and that" nonsense means absolutely nothing. People come up with this warped logic when they have to defend mediocre players. It is the job of every frontline bowler to take wickets and bowl economically, just like it is the job of every frontline batsmen to score runs and do it at a decent rate.

What did Pakistan achieve in ODIs post the CT vs the top sides with his so-called economical spells?

Besides, Imad did not uproot any trees with his so-called economical spells. His economy rate is 6 vs India and above 5 vs all other top sides except South Africa. It is hardly impressive especially when you combine it with a bowling average that would put a part-timer to shame.

Imad was a liability with the ball in ODIs no matter how you spin it because Imad couldn't (pun intended). Then again, I do expect such nonsense from you because if you are willing to argue that a 34 year old with an average of 28 after 33 Tests deserves to be Test captain, you can also argue that a frontline spinner averaging 65 with the ball vs the top 5 ODI teams deserves to play.

Stay on topic. This thread is about Imad Wasim, not Shan Masood.

Imad's wicket-taking ability was just as bad when you were positive on him on this thread. Why are you bringing it up now? What has changed? because he hasn't played an ODI in close to 4 years now.

And why aren't you answering the question I asked you about his batting numbers? Seems like you keep dodging that question for some reason.

Why don't you just admit that you dislike Imad because he said something about Babar that you didn't like instead of clinging on to ridiculous, illogical arguments.

 

[Mamoon]

Also repeat after me:


"Imad and Masood fans would be doing bhangra if Saim played for a franchise led by them and opened the bowling and took the wickets that he did. They wouldn't shut up about how it was an "out of the box" move and an illustration of great captaincy".

 

[PakEngFan]

Yes because shadab who's supposedly superior to imad by your standards is clearly showing his class bowling and batting wise against the very same bowlers.

When both shadab and Imad has played ICC tournament shadab is always outperformed him.

 

[mominsaigol]

See it wasn't that difficult. It took a lot of tongue-biting but you finally mustered the courage to admit that Babar showed great tactical nous by opening the bowling with Saim.

Now please repeat after me:

"Babar is the best captain of this tournament because of the way he has managed his weak bowling resources in this tournament. Imad was badly exposed as captain last year without Babar."

Bruh cannot you read? I kept telling you not to shove words into my mouth, please use your open space and unwavering intellect on someone else.

I verbatim said how he was unable to calm the team down leading to overthrown and panic which he's done multiple times, how he clearly bowled the wrong bowler, how his own sr cost the game.

Saim is ot his defining trait, nor is it a genius move, its a risky gamble that didn't even pay off considering guptil 24 of that over caused them to keep within the rr?

You're acting as if saim didn't just leak runs against an accomplished batsmen and allowed the rr to stay within limits.

Don't ignore my words next time, unlike you, they stay within the same space and the same time.

 

[topspin]

Babar's "great tactical nous" was certainly on show when he gave Aamer Jamal the ball.

 

[Mamoon]

Stay on topic. This thread is about Imad Wasim, not Shan Masood.

Imad's wicket-taking ability was just as bad when you were positive on him on this thread. Why are you bringing it up now? What has changed? because he hasn't played an ODI in close to 4 years now.

And why aren't you answering the question I asked you about his batting numbers? Seems like you keep dodging that question for some reason.

Why don't you just admit that you dislike Imad because he said something about Babar that you didn't like instead of clinging on to ridiculous, illogical arguments.

I have already answered your question about his batting numbers unless he averaged more than a 100:

"He could average 100 for all I care"

I would say that if you are playing as one of the five frontline bowlers and your bowling stats vs the top sides would put a part-timer to shame, you should be averaging as much as Don Bradman to make up for it and have a positive net impact on your team.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar's "great tactical nous" was certainly on show when he gave Aamer Jamal the ball.

Saim ayub cost 22-24( don't remember the exact no) in a single over which allowed the team to stay within the RR and gave inad waseem time to build a partnership.

What is he on about on it being the greatest decision ever. Imagine claiming Babar is the best captain in the psl because he bowled a part timer in the first few overs.

 

[RyanRyan10]

I don't know. A different time, a different place, a different situation. So much can change.

Imad exposed himself for the fraud captain that he is when he failed badly without Babar in the team and he also exposed himself for the hypocrite that he is when he started criticizing Babar's playing style after getting dropped, when the same playing style carried him to the title in 2020.

I am not here to argue on who is better between Imad and Babar. Both have different roles. Imad was dropped while Nawaz, Faheem and Shadab were preferred over him in recent. This was a wrong call by the team management. Babar made a mistake by backing the wrong player.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I have already answered your question about his batting numbers unless he averaged more than a 100:

"He could average 100 for all I care"

I would say that if you are playing as one of the five frontline bowlers and your bowling stats vs the top sides would put a part-timer to shame, you should be averaging as much as Don Bradman to make up for it and have a positive net impact on your team.

So basically you only care about the stats you want to care about? Good to know.

Since you dodged another question of mine, I'll ask it again:

Imad's wicket-taking ability was just as bad when you were positive on him on this thread. Why are you bringing it up now? What has changed? because he hasn't played an ODI in close to 4 years now.

 

[topspin]

Saim ayub cost 22-24( don't remember the exact no) in a single over which allowed the team to stay within the RR and gave inad waseem time to build a partnership.

What is he on about on it being the greatest decision ever. Imagine claiming Babar is the best captain in the psl because he bowled a part timer in the first few overs.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. Like Redwood has said, let him cling on to his absurd nonsense. He's doing himself no favours here and it's sad to see him show up like this because I use to have a lot of respect for him. But now, he's one of the washed up ones who's well past is sell by date.

 

[Mamoon]

Bruh cannot you read? I kept telling you not to shove words into my mouth, please use your open space and unwavering intellect on someone else.

I verbatim said how he was unable to calm the team down leading to overthrown and panic which he's done multiple times, how he clearly bowled the wrong bowler, how his own sr cost the game.

Saim is ot his defining trait, nor is it a genius move, its a risky gamble that didn't even pay off considering guptil 24 of that over caused them to keep within the rr?

You're acting as if saim didn't just leak runs against an accomplished batsmen and allowed the rr to stay within limits.

Don't ignore my words next time, unlike you, they stay within the same space and the same time.

His own SR didn't cost his team. It was a great catch by Shadab that ended his innings just when he was about to notch it up a gear. Babar was playing exactly like he always does, he was pacing it like he always does, and he was doing what has always done in PSL that has enabled him to be the best ever batsman in PSL to date and also the best batsman of this particular edition.

Guptill got hold of Saim today but him getting rid of Hales early pushed United on the back foot and he has consistently taken wickets with the new ball and that has played a big role in Zalmi winning games. There is a strong possibility that without this move, Zalmi wouldn't have made the play-offs.

In short, the fact that Zalmi was a whisker away from playing the final was down to Babar's captaincy and anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge this and wants to fixate on the last half hour of today's play clearly has a toxic agenda.

 

[PakEngFan]

I've seen you go crazy with your bashing of Imad during this PSL and also during last year's PSL. You were like a mad man. If you don't rate his cricketing skills that's fine, but you seem to be deep rooted dislike that you have of him. What is exactly your issue with him?

He's a nothing cricketer which some of our fan base make him out as a world beater. His bowling is part time level in odis and his fielding is awful. To top it off he has pathetic attitude and thinks of himself as a superstar when he's a poor man's shadab who has out performed him when they played together most of the times.

Just look at their performances in ICC tournaments shadab is miles ahead. Now can you answer me why you dislike shadab so much when he's performed far better than Imad?

 

[Major]

Some credit goes to Shadab for having the skill to unlock some performances from Imad.

Depends.

Look, Shadab is a very selfish captain. The reason why he bought Imad to the team was because Imad announced retirement so he was no more a threat for him to take his spot in the national team. Shadab traded Abrar away to adjust Imad.

Shadab never plays a second spinner with a consistent run. He destroyed Zafar Gohar, Mubasir and than also Abrar.

The reason why Shadab kept Imad is because he knows he is retired and is not threat for him, plus, he knew Islamabad needed another spinner.

After what Shadab did with Abrar, i stopped supporting him.

 

[Rana]

Some credit goes to Shadab for having the skill to unlock some performances from Imad.

Yeah it’s not rocket science to use Imad in the powerplay as a bowler and trust him to bat in the top 5

 

[Mamoon]

Oh yes, I forgot about that. Like Redwood has said, let him cling on to his absurd nonsense. He's doing himself no favours here and it's sad to see him show up like this because I use to have a lot of respect for him. But now, he's one of the washed up ones who's well past is sell by date.

I do not take feedback from someone who thinks Masood is a good batsman, has improved in recent years and deserves to be the Test captain. Those three opinions would lead to a lifetime ban if I were the moderator of this forum.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

"I own this space and no one can match my intellect"

I think I've heard this quote from either Code geass, Bleach or UQ holder lol, anime quotes.

Also ik fam, I was the first person who questioned whether you really said shan is better then babar, cause I knew for a fact that the only way you could have said that, is if you made a Sequel to my " If Rizwan the best batsmen thread, but this time with shan masood, to mess with people" .

Did he really say that? That's a bit much even for him.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I repeat what you said:

Haider is a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high.

The logical dissection of this question is to talk about performances for the Pakistan national team. What has Haider Ali doing it for Islamabad United after a gazillion failures got anything to do with Pakistan?

Haider Ali has padded up 34 times for Pakistan - can you please quote examples from those matches to support your statement?

This will be proven in the future if gets into the same team as Babar.

But since you are a Babar supporter, there is not much chance of that.

 

[topspin]

Did he really say that? That's a bit much even for him.

Yes on TimePass

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I do not take feedback from someone who thinks Masood is a good batsman, has improved in recent years and deserves to be the Test captain. Those three opinions would lead to a lifetime ban if I were the moderator of this forum.

No you just silence us with your "unwavering intellect"

Incase you can't tell the entire thread is laughing at you.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes on TimePass

Hahahah wow. He has officially gone over the hill.

I guess that's what people with unwavering intellect do. Tell you about how much unwavering intellect they have lmao.

 

[Hawkeye]

Imad Wasim is the Anwar Ali of spin allrounders.

Nothing more than a failure at the international level, particularly against the good sides.

He’s only overhyped now because he’s been sitting out and missing all the humiliation that would have come his way had he been bowling or batting.

About time we permanently discard such minnow level mediocrities from our national team, he should not come back, no matter how he does in Mickey Mouse leagues.

Period.

 

[Mamoon]

"I own this space and no one can match my intellect"

I think I've heard this quote from either Code geass, Bleach or UQ holder lol, anime quotes.

Also ik fam, I was the first person who questioned whether you really said shan is better then babar, cause I knew for a fact that the only way you could have said that, is if you made a Sequel to my " If Rizwan the best batsmen thread, but this time with shan masood, to mess with people" .

@topspin didn't say Masood is a better batsman than Babar. He is misquoting me because he lacks the courage to stand by what he said.

He said Masood is a good batsman but Masood averages 28 after 33 Tests.
He said Masood has "improved" post his comeback in SA in 2018-19, but Masood averages 31 in 21 Tests since his comeback.

I use to rate him and @RedwoodOriginal as quality posters, and I do that for very, very, very few posters, but I have stopped taking them seriously since they started their Masood propaganda.

 

[mominsaigol]

His own SR didn't cost his team. It was a great catch by Shadab that ended his innings just when he was about to notch it up a gear. Babar was playing exactly like he always does, he was pacing it like he always does, and he was doing what has always done in PSL that has enabled him to be the best ever batsman in PSL to date and also the best batsman of this particular edition.

Guptill got hold of Saim today but him getting rid of Hales early pushed United on the back foot and he has consistently taken wickets with the new ball and that has played a big role in Zalmi winning games. There is a strong possibility that without this move, Zalmi wouldn't have made the play-offs.

In short, the fact that Zalmi was a whisker away from playing the final was down to Babar's captaincy and anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge this and wants to fixate on the last half hour of today's play clearly has a toxic agagenda.

IT 100% did, him playing like he always does is what costs innings, 25 of 22 doesn't compliment haris or saim one bit, and had he scored more and kept pace, PZ would have been 20 runs over.

He's always been a frustrating opener, someone who okays for himself and costs the team, this innings is no different from what he played in the SF of the cup. He wasted nearly 4 overs scoring at barely over run a ball.

None of that changes the fact that it's a gamble and his decision cost it.

And stop ignoring what I say and using toxic agenda as an excuse when I've verbatim seen you respond with clown emojis and ping people nonstop.

Their is no toxic agenda, Babar has a historical track record of being unable to calm his team down and infact he increases the panic, it doesn't help that like always and even today he immediately started scolding and shouting at everyone which doubled the pressure and caused even more midfield.

He's constantly made wrong bowling decisions throughout the tournament as well as the past, such as bowling jamal or against sa in the world cup bowling nawaz who was wixkwtless throughout the tourney to take a wicket in the last over.

Your conclusions are completly wrong, and your hiding behind the toxic agenda excuse when someone proposes a valid argument as you're running out of arguments to begin with.

Saying things like

" I don't care about"

" you have a toxic agenda "

Etc etc are verbatim ad hominems aka a fallcious argument thay invalidates the whole reasoning or line of thinking you're potraying.

 

[topspin]

Hahahah wow. He has officially gone over the hill.

I guess that's what people with unwavering intellect do. Tell you about how much unwavering intellect they have lmao.

 

[PakEngFan]

Imad Wasim is the Anwar Ali of spin allrounders.

Nothing more than a failure at the international level, particularly against the good sides.

He’s only overhyped now because he’s been sitting out and missing all the humiliation that would have come his way had he been bowling or batting.

About time we permanently discard such minnow level mediocrities from our national team, he should not come back, no matter how he does in Mickey Mouse leagues.

Period.

For once I agree with you. Spot on.

 

[mominsaigol]

@topspin didn't say Masood is a better batsman than Babar. He is misquoting me because he lacks the courage to stand by what he said.

He said Masood is a good batsman but Masood averages 28 after 33 Tests.
He said Masood has "improved" post his comeback in SA in 2018-19, but Masood averages 31 in 21 Tests since his comeback.

I use to rate him and @RedwoodOriginal as quality posters, and I do that for very, very, very few posters, but I have stopped taking them seriously since they started their Masood propaganda.

Shan massod is a trash player, a trash captain and will never be good enough, he's terrible. Never disagreed with you on that and never will.

I stand by my previous claims, always.

 

[Mamoon]

This will be proven in the future if gets into the same team as Babar.

But since you are a Babar supporter, there is not much chance of that.

Then you should have said:

"Haider will be a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan in the future when the stakes will be high."

You can't say that "he is" a bigger impact player for Pakistan when you can't quote any performances out of the 33 matches that he has played for Pakistan.

As far as categorizing me as a Babar supporter, well that depends. I am not a Babar supporter if you ask me to say that he is the best batsman in the world or comparable to Kohli or better than anyone in India other than Kohli. I think that is nonsense. Babar will never be the best batsman in the world, he will never be comparable to Kohli and there are several players in India other than Kohli who are better than him.

However, I will absolutely not tolerate anyone telling me that Babar is average, or that he is not Pakistan's best batsman, or that some random XYZ hack is a bigger match winner than him or that Imad is overall equal to him as a cricketer. I will not let that fly past me.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Daren Sammy's praise on Imad's heroics today:

"Imad played an experienced knock, a mature innings and Haider took his chances but if you look at the balls (they smashed) they were just the nothing balls."

 

[Caved12]

To all Imad haters, Just try and appreciate Imad for what he has done in the last 3 matches and admit that you were wrong and move on

 

[Hawkeye]

@topspin didn't say Masood is a better batsman than Babar. He is misquoting me because he lacks the courage to stand by what he said.

He said Masood is a good batsman but Masood averages 28 after 33 Tests.
He said Masood has "improved" post his comeback in SA in 2018-19, but Masood averages 31 in 21 Tests since his comeback.

I use to rate him and @RedwoodOriginal as quality posters, and I do that for very, very, very few posters, but I have stopped taking them seriously since they started their Masood propaganda.

Can’t believe you used to rate someone who thinks Masood is any level above than a club level batter.

 

[topspin]

I consider Imad Wasim to be average/just average when it comes to his skills, so what makes you think I'm going to rate Shan Masood as a "good" batsman? I still rate his captaincy.

 

[Mamoon]

Daren Sammy's praise on Imad's heroics today:

"Imad played an experienced knock, a mature innings and Haider took his chances but if you look at the balls (they smashed) they were just the nothing balls."

Sammy is right though, the bowlers' execution was appalling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

@topspin didn't say Masood is a better batsman than Babar. He is misquoting me because he lacks the courage to stand by what he said.

He said Masood is a good batsman but Masood averages 28 after 33 Tests.
He said Masood has "improved" post his comeback in SA in 2018-19, but Masood averages 31 in 21 Tests since his comeback.

I use to rate him and @RedwoodOriginal as quality posters, and I do that for very, very, very few posters, but I have stopped taking them seriously since they started their Masood propaganda.

Here's the thing, I couldn't care less if you rated me as a quality poster or not. I can't think of anything in the world that could possibly mean any less to me.

Also, I know you may think that is a cute way for you to dodge all your arguments about Imad Wasim being completely exposed and taken apart by multiple posters here, but that won't make it so.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No mud slinging or personal comments plz or else such posts would be removed.

 

[Mamoon]

How to be in the good books of delusional Pakistani fans who don't know the first thing about cricket:

• Don't perform when you are playing for Pakistan - you must have poor individual stats because if you perform, it means you are selfish and playing for yourself. When you don't perform, you come across as selfless.
  
  
• Speak decent to good English
  
  
• Make generic statements about positive cricket, intent, aggression, attacking mindset blah blah when you are talking to the media

You do these three things and you will have your own cult fan club who will propagate your propaganda and do the work for you.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

People calling haider Ali great based on Today's performance is nothing short of being hilarious.. i cant even forget the stupid shot he played against Hardik Pandya in Melbourne and Hardik Pandya literally laughed him off the pitch .. the guy has no head above his shoulders.. also do not forget he was responsible for our loss against Zimbabwe in t20 wc.. his duck in that match was the wicket that changed momentum of the game in favor of Zimbabwe lol he can continue winning for his psl once in a season for all i care but he should not be let anywhere near pct

 

[ahmadharis1]

He would easily be in our best T20I XI for the world cup

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yeah it’s not rocket science to use Imad in the powerplay as a bowler and trust him to bat in the top 5

Imad failed to get the team over the line when he was captain. He would also chicken out of bowling at times.

He is doing well in Shadabs shadow and under his tutelage.

 

[Rana]

Imad failed to get the team over the line when he was captain. He would also chicken out of bowling at times.

He is doing well in Shadabs shadow and under his tutelage.

Yeah ok if that’s what you think so.

Not that anyone cares

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yeah ok if that’s what you think so.

Not that anyone cares

Ok!

 

[Faran96]

Imad is a bigger match winner than Babar for Pakistan in my truthful opinion.

Haider is a bigger impact player than Babar for Pakistan when the stakes are high.

Babar is a better player for Pakistan then both when playing in bilateral matches or when facing C and D class versions of big teams.

Babar being in the team does not change the outcome of the match. A losing side will continue to lose and a winning side will continue to win despite his contributions.

Imad being in the team can change the innings positively or negatively based on his performance.

Similar for Haider.

If Babar is still better because of his 41 average in T20, 56 in ODI and 45 in tests as you so eloquently stated before, I have no problems with your opinion.

But you got my opinion.

And my thoughts.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Wow Shadab backing Imad's return to the PCT:

"Imad Wasim is one of the best all rounder in the world. The way he has helped us in the last 3 knock out games is just simply remarkable so we are lucky that he is part of our team

I also talked to him (Imad) when he took retirement and asked him not to leave because Pakistan do need such players. Also I would take to him on this topic soon as you know the world cup (T20) is approaching. So I would like to see him back in the team (for T20 WC 2024) because of the kind of form he is at the moment and the rich amount of experience he has in CPL. I think we can benefit from that"

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Depends.

Look, Shadab is a very selfish captain. The reason why he bought Imad to the team was because Imad announced retirement so he was no more a threat for him to take his spot in the national team. Shadab traded Abrar away to adjust Imad.

Shadab never plays a second spinner with a consistent run. He destroyed Zafar Gohar, Mubasir and than also Abrar.

The reason why Shadab kept Imad is because he knows he is retired and is not threat for him, plus, he knew Islamabad needed another spinner.

After what Shadab did with Abrar, i stopped supporting him.

Still. Imad was a complete dead weight for the majority of the tournament. He was having a similar tournament to Shan.

When a player is playing so poorly you need to give credit to those around him for giving them the confidence to continue.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Wow Shadab backing Imad's return to the PCT:

"Imad Wasim is one of the best all rounder in the world. The way he has helped us in the last 3 knock out games is just simply remarkable so we are lucky that he is part of our team

I also talked to him (Imad) when he took retirement and asked him not to leave because Pakistan do need such players. Also I would take to him on this topic soon as you know the world cup (T20) is approaching. So I would like to see him back in the team (for T20 WC 2024) because of the kind of form he is at the moment and the rich amount of experience he has in CPL. I think we can benefit from that"

It's quite clear and obvious that Shadab was a major factor in Imads turn around. You can see from the way they interacted on the pitch.

 

[Rana]

Oh boy the Imad haters and the Babar fanatics won’t be able to sleep tonight