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Extra batsman or an all-rounder? Pakistan's team composition for the upcoming Tests in England

Abdullah719

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The following lineup is quite likely for the first Test against England but the middle and lower middle-order has a question mark.

Shan Masood
Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq
Mohammad Rizwan
-
-
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mohammad Abbas
Naseem Shah

The clamour is for the inclusion of Fawad Alam as the sixth batsman in the side, pushing Rizwan down to 7. Another option if Iftikhar Ahmed and he may actually get the nod due to his perceived utility with the ball as well.

The other option is to play Faheem Ashraf and/or Shadab Khan. Either one of them could play with Wahab Riaz or Yasir Shah at #8. Or both could play as was the case in overseas Tests during the end of the Mickey Arthur era.

What do you think about the team composition?
 
Ramiz Raja reckons that Pakistan should consider playing Imam-ul-Haq and push everyone down one slot in the order. He feels negotiating the new ball is important and an extra opener can come in handy at #3.

He also figures Fawad Alam should get at least one match in the series because he's been waiting for his chance. If they don't do that now, then he suggests age may become a factor against him and his reflexes will start slowing down in the near future.
 
Ramiz Raja reckons that Pakistan should consider playing Imam-ul-Haq and push everyone down one slot in the order. He feels negotiating the new ball is important and an extra opener can come in handy at #3.

He also figures Fawad Alam should get at least one match in the series because he's been waiting for his chance. If they don't do that now, then he suggests age may become a factor against him and his reflexes will start slowing down in the near future.

Azhar Ali is already an extra opener who bats at #3.
 
The 2 slots you mentioned should be Shadab and Faheem/Iftikhar.

Pakistan has been able to churn better results in England primarily due to contributions from lower order, so contributions for 7/8 are really needed should we perform better.

Also the pitches in England are unusually dry this summer as evident in 2 Windies matches so far. This might advocate Ifti inclusion over Faheem. On a normal England wicket with green on top I would usually go for Faheem.

No point playing extra batsman if you cannot pick 20 wickets. With 4 bowlers I fear we might not be able to take 20 wickets especially if one of the bowler is Yasir. Hence, we need additional bowler alongside someone who can bat a bit, Shadab has done well with bat so should get nod ahead of others while depending on pitch we can either select Ifti or Faheem.
 
The 2 slots you mentioned should be Shadab and Faheem/Iftikhar.

Pakistan has been able to churn better results in England primarily due to contributions from lower order, so contributions for 7/8 are really needed should we perform better.

Also the pitches in England are unusually dry this summer as evident in 2 Windies matches so far. This might advocate Ifti inclusion over Faheem. On a normal England wicket with green on top I would usually go for Faheem.

No point playing extra batsman if you cannot pick 20 wickets. With 4 bowlers I fear we might not be able to take 20 wickets especially if one of the bowler is Yasir. Hence, we need additional bowler alongside someone who can bat a bit, Shadab has done well with bat so should get nod ahead of others while depending on pitch we can either select Ifti or Faheem.

Agreed. Though Fawad is also a decent part time spinner but Iftikhar with his off spin can be pretty useful against Burns and Stokes so if they are looking at a 5th option in the form of a spinner both can be decent enough.

Also something to note if 2nd spin bowling option is to be considered is that Kashif Bhatti is pretty handy lower order batsman with an avg of 23 and 2 100s in FC cricket. While this might give a more dependable spinner to support Shadab but at the same time obviously his batting pedigree doesnt match the other two spin bowling options.
 
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The 2 slots you mentioned should be Shadab and Faheem/Iftikhar.

Pakistan has been able to churn better results in England primarily due to contributions from lower order, so contributions for 7/8 are really needed should we perform better.

Also the pitches in England are unusually dry this summer as evident in 2 Windies matches so far. This might advocate Ifti inclusion over Faheem. On a normal England wicket with green on top I would usually go for Faheem.

No point playing extra batsman if you cannot pick 20 wickets. With 4 bowlers I fear we might not be able to take 20 wickets especially if one of the bowler is Yasir. Hence, we need additional bowler alongside someone who can bat a bit, Shadab has done well with bat so should get nod ahead of others while depending on pitch we can either select Ifti or Faheem.

If you go with shadab at number 7 with yasir nunber 8no need for another spinner and 3 fast bowlers of abbas shaheen naseem
 
Agreed. Though Fawad is also a decent part time spinner but Iftikhar with his off spin can be pretty useful against Burns and Stokes so if they are looking at a 5th option in the form of a spinner both can be decent enough.

Also something to note if 2nd spin bowling option is to be considered is that Kashif Bhatti is pretty handy lower order batsman with an avg of 23 and 2 100s in FC cricket. While this might give a more dependable spinner to support Shadab but at the same time obviously his batting pedigree doesnt match the other two spin bowling options.

Yasir will play the question is will shadab play or will kashif or ifti play.personally I'd play shadab and yasir even thou yasir hasnt done much if it turns he will be effective
 
Agreed. Though Fawad is also a decent part time spinner but Iftikhar with his off spin can be pretty useful against Burns and Stokes so if they are looking at a 5th option in the form of a spinner both can be decent enough.

Also something to note if 2nd spin bowling option is to be considered is that Kashif Bhatti is pretty handy lower order batsman with an avg of 23 and 2 100s in FC cricket. While this might give a more dependable spinner to support Shadab but at the same time obviously his batting pedigree doesnt match the other two spin bowling options.

Yasir will play the question is will shadab play or will kashif or ifti play.personally I'd play shadab and yasir even thou yasir hasnt done much if it turns he will be effective
 
The following lineup is quite likely for the first Test against England but the middle and lower middle-order has a question mark.

Shan Masood
Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq
Mohammad Rizwan
-
-
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mohammad Abbas
Naseem Shah

The clamour is for the inclusion of Fawad Alam as the sixth batsman in the side, pushing Rizwan down to 7. Another option if Iftikhar Ahmed and he may actually get the nod due to his perceived utility with the ball as well.

The other option is to play Faheem Ashraf and/or Shadab Khan. Either one of them could play with Wahab Riaz or Yasir Shah at #8. Or both could play as was the case in overseas Tests during the end of the Mickey Arthur era.

What do you think about the team composition?

I fink yasir will play
 
They aren't great choices, but I'd take Shadab and Faheem as the best out of a bad bunch. If Misbah plays Yasir and Ifti, you know it isn't just cricketing reasons.
 
My choices: Shadab and Fawad/Faheem (Fawad can at least role his arm over for a couple of overs).

What management will most likely pick: Yasir and Iftikhar.
 
The following lineup is quite likely for the first Test against England but the middle and lower middle-order has a question mark.

Shan Masood
Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq
Mohammad Rizwan
-
-
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mohammad Abbas
Naseem Shah

The clamour is for the inclusion of Fawad Alam as the sixth batsman in the side, pushing Rizwan down to 7. Another option if Iftikhar Ahmed and he may actually get the nod due to his perceived utility with the ball as well.

The other option is to play Faheem Ashraf and/or Shadab Khan. Either one of them could play with Wahab Riaz or Yasir Shah at #8. Or both could play as was the case in overseas Tests during the end of the Mickey Arthur era.

What do you think about the team composition?

OK, there are several things which really need to be discussed here, before Misbah goes on to Autopilot and repeats his recurrent mistakes.

1. YASIR SHAH IN ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND AND SOUTH AFRICA
This is Yasir's full career record - including his supposedly successful tour of England in 2016.

Played: 12 Tests
Bowled: 513 overs
Wickets: 32
Average: 63.50
Economy Rate: 3.96
Strike rate: 96.1

This record is a disgrace. And any serious consideration of continuing to select him is outrageous.

2. IT'S NOT ABOUT 5 BOWLERS - IT'S ABOUT 4 QUICKS
Even Yasir Shah has a terrible record outside Asia. As I just showed, he has 32 wickets in 12 Tests at an average of 63.50.

Pretty much any pace bowling option is superior in SENA conditions.

Specifically, Faheem Ashraf has 11 wickets in 4 Tests at an average of 26.09 outside Asia. And his economy rate is better at 3.18 (Yasir was 3.96) and his strike rate is literally twice as good at 49.00 (Yasir is 96.1).

But let's be frank here.

The Dukes ball is doing less than usual this summer without saliva available. The West Indies quicks took 1 wicket on Day 1 at Old Trafford.

Pakistan are going to be reliant upon the pace and bounce of Shaheen and the pace of Naseem Shah (and I suspect Haris Rauf will be far more effective than Mohammad Abbas).

But to maintain that pace the 3 strike quicks require a fourth quick (and a part-time spinner) to share the load so that they can bowl short, sharp spells. We saw in South Africa 18 months ago that when Faheem and Shadab were excluded from the first two Tests in favour of Yasir Shah the end result was that Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Abbas were overbowled and lost their edge.

3. IFTIKHAR IS NOT AN OPTION
Iftikhar may score a few runs against the old ball without saliva, but his bowling is going to be a complete liability at international level.

This is a man with 1 wicket in 3 Tests at an average of 141, and a Strike rate of 188!!!!!!

4. WHEN YOUR BATTING IS THIS BAD, YOU CAN'T PICK FOUR NUMBER 11'S
We all know how bad Pakistan's batting is.

When Misbah was the skipper he invested everything in Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq as the Next Generation, and allowed those two plus himself and Younis to hog the entire middle-order.

And when Younis and Misbah retired we learned what we knew all along - Azhar and Shafiq aren't good enough to lead the batting.

Rather like the West Indies, Pakistan need to get at least as many runs out of Numbers 6-10 as they get out of Numbers 1-5, because the top order is rubbish.

Playing a seventh batsman is not the answer - it weakens the bowling too much, by increasing the workload on Shaheen and Naseem.

So all-rounders like Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf are required - men who can do their share of bowling as support bowlers but also score some runs.
 
Playing faheem in tests to get wickets is an awkward idea. If on a pitch your prime quicks can't be effective, he is least expected considering the English fancy the faheem like quicks who hardly have any variation to offer. Most probably going be the one they gonna score easily.
With bat as well,he at best might score a 50 in one of the innings.
If we want a combination where we want bit of variation with 5th bowler,then I would have ifti here since he can take it away from left handers hut he really needs to contribute with bowl then. Can't be there to occupy an end.
This means shadab and ifti are gonna he my 7 and 8 but there is big chance both might go Wicketless,which anyway is expected with yasir as well.
I think they will probably choose between the two combinations ie, either iftikar(after his heroics with bat) and shadab/yasir or fawad and yasir.
Fawad and shadab is least expected.

This gets us;
1 Shan masood
2 Abid ali
3 Azhar ali(top three already looking fragile but this is what we have)
4 babar azam
5 asad shadiq
6 mohammad Rizwan
7 iftikar Ahmed
8 shadab
9 naseem
10 abbas
11 shahaen


In ideal scenario with yasir on top of his game I would never have in the 11 since he in the long run doesn't seem to be a prospect.
 
Playing faheem in tests to get wickets is an awkward idea. If on a pitch your prime quicks can't be effective, he is least expected considering the English fancy the faheem like quicks who hardly have any variation to offer. Most probably going be the one they gonna score easily.

Faheem averages 26 with ball after 4 tests and took 11 wickets in total. 4 wickets in England @29 and 6 wickets in SA @16.
 
I don't think 'extra batsmen vs all-rounder' is the right way of looking at this. This decision has to be evaluated based on your resources and talent

I'd love to have an all-rounder in the test playing 11, but Pakistan don't have anyone good enough for that spot. Faheem is a bits and pieces cricketer who gives you 10-20 runs with the bats, and 15-20 meaningless and easy overs per day with the ball. Doesn't put pressure on the opposition in any way, just not good enough to be a Test cricketer.

Shadab is a definitely more capable of playing, but I'm not sure if he works for the team composition with another leg-spinner already playing.

I'd go with Fawad. He's a tough, gritty batsmen who can give you 50+ runs batting at #6, and adds value to Pakistan's very weak batting lineup (where Babar is the only reliable batsmen) - someone like Fawad may be the difference between Pakistan being all out for 220 vs getting to 300
 
Faheem averages 26 with ball after 4 tests and took 11 wickets in total. 4 wickets in England @29 and 6 wickets in SA @16.

This. Faheem bowls on a good line for test cricket and is fairly accurate. He is a decent enough support bowler but his batting is a big issue.

The question is that whether we should play a support bowler(Faheem) or a specialist fast bowler(Wahab/Harris) ? Imo, (Wahab/Harris) will score as many runs as Faheem but will take more wickets so I will chose one of them.
 
Now Sohail Khan being touted as an option for #7, but that makes the tail much too long.

Shadab is the only realistic option as a fifth bowler at the moment with Iftikhar having an outside chance of also being considered for the role. The likes of Faheem, Sohail, Yasir can bat no higher than #8.
 
I would still stick with the following:
7. Shadab
8. Faheem
9. Shaheen
10. Abbas
11. Naseem

Sohail should be drafted in 2nd test if any of the pace bowlers have a bad match and contributed in Pak losing 1st test.
 
The problem with Shadab at 7 is he won't score many runs and he won't take many wickets, but he's a decent fielder.
 
The problem with Shadab at 7 is he won't score many runs and he won't take many wickets, but he's a decent fielder.

Shadab might not be taking much wickets but that is on par with what Yasir has been doing off late in SENA matches too. Shadab will score runs though, he has been in best form of his life in psl and in the last tour of England his couple of 50s helped Pakistan win a test match.
 
Gotta play the extra batsman because the pseudo all-rounders Pakistan have are not very good. Might as well just rely on Shan Masood, Azhar Ali and any of the other part timers to bowl a couple of overs to give a rest to the main bowlers. They are just as likely to take a wicket as Faheem or Shadab.
 
The problem with Shadab at 7 is he won't score many runs and he won't take many wickets, but he's a decent fielder.
And the reason there is a problem is because apart Babar and Rizwan the specialist batsmen are hopeless.

The third to sixth best batsmen will only score a combined 50 runs per innings. Adding a seventh one won’t add any extra runs.

All the evidence at Test level is that Shadab will score more runs than Iftikhar, and Sohail or Faheem will score more runs than Fawad (who was 24th highest scorer in a six team tournament last season until the internationals went to Australia).
 
I would go with

Abid
Shan
Azhar
Babar
Shafiq
Rizwan
Iftikhar
Shadab
Shaheen
Abbas
naseem
 
Anderson career vs Pakistan: 18.58 average 63 wickets in 15 Tests (best against anyone)
Board career vs Pakistan: 24.00 average 54 wickets in 16 Tests (best against anyone unless you include Ireland whom he played once)
Woakes career vs Pakistan: 16.93 average wickets in 5 Tests (obviously the best against unless you include Ireland one match). Also really Pakistan? Really? Woakes destroyed you this bad? Really? Trash batsmen.

So all these bowlers perform better vs Pakistan than anyone else. Undoubtedly, Archer will lay waste to our batsmen as well and somehow Pakistan are still considering a strategy of going with 5 bowlers.

If the plan is to lose horribly and see Azhar Ali get the boot, I think its a fantastic idea then.
 
Anderson career vs Pakistan: 18.58 average 63 wickets in 15 Tests (best against anyone)
Board career vs Pakistan: 24.00 average 54 wickets in 16 Tests (best against anyone unless you include Ireland whom he played once)
Woakes career vs Pakistan: 16.93 average wickets in 5 Tests (obviously the best against unless you include Ireland one match). Also really Pakistan? Really? Woakes destroyed you this bad? Really? Trash batsmen.

So all these bowlers perform better vs Pakistan than anyone else. Undoubtedly, Archer will lay waste to our batsmen as well and somehow Pakistan are still considering a strategy of going with 5 bowlers.

If the plan is to lose horribly and see Azhar Ali get the boot, I think its a fantastic idea then.

If their record is so good against us, then why do we always demolish England in tests? (8-3 in the last decade)
 
[MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION] because in last decade Poms batting sucked even more than Pakistan's. And people are really overestimating England Chances once again, this time it will be same again, our batsman just need to suck a little lesser than English batting and we will be in with a good chance to draw or even win the series.
 
All-rounder is probably better but he needs to be really good. Otherwise, extra batsman makes more sense.
 
If their record is so good against us, then why do we always demolish England in tests? (8-3 in the last decade)

1. Our bowling
2. England poor batting side
3. They suck in asian condition
4. We had Younis and Misbah for most of those wins.
 
Best value for money is Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen & Naseem + 7 “all-rounders”. That makes it 18 men starting XI. In fact 19 - Rizwan is also a sort of “all-rounder”
 
Shadab might not be taking much wickets but that is on par with what Yasir has been doing off late in SENA matches too. Shadab will score runs though, he has been in best form of his life in psl and in the last tour of England his couple of 50s helped Pakistan win a test match.

Scoring runs in PSL has nothing to do with Test cricket. It's a different world.
 
And the reason there is a problem is because apart Babar and Rizwan the specialist batsmen are hopeless.

The third to sixth best batsmen will only score a combined 50 runs per innings. Adding a seventh one won’t add any extra runs.

All the evidence at Test level is that Shadab will score more runs than Iftikhar, and Sohail or Faheem will score more runs than Fawad (who was 24th highest scorer in a six team tournament last season until the internationals went to Australia).

Whether your top 6 is strong or not an all-rounder should only be in a Test team if he can win you a match with bat and/or ball.
 
Whether your top 6 is strong or not an all-rounder should only be in a Test team if he can win you a match with bat and/or ball.
Why?

He only needs to be as good at batting as your keeper or as good at bowling as your fifth best bowler.

His job is to give you balance. And to reduce the load for your true strike bowlers so that they can function as strike bowlers and not stock bowlers.

15 overs in a day from Faheem allows Shaheen and Naseem to bowl shorter, faster, more dangerous spells.

Colin de Grandhomme can’t win you a match with the ball himself. He increases the chances that Boult can by bowling 18 overs per day at 140K instead of 25 overs at 133K.
 
Sohail khan has had 2 5fers in the practice matches it looks like he will play.

Rizwan
Shadab
Sohail
Abbas
Shaheen
Naseem


Long tail yes but that will be the case regardless of who we play.
 
Whether your top 6 is strong or not an all-rounder should only be in a Test team if he can win you a match with bat and/or ball.

Atm shadab is the only player that can be considered an all rounder.
Iftikhar's bowling is no better than joe roots and faheem cant bat.
 
5 bowlers a must if Pak intends to win
Shaheen
Sohail
Nadeem
Abbas
Yasir
Wicket keeper...say Rizwan
5 batters
Shaan
Imam
Azhar
Babar
Shafiq
 
Anything else is jus bakwaas..Don't play for draw..jus attack because attack is the best form of defence
 
5STvaxi.png


Four seamers... :shan
 
Got to be either Sohail or Fawad at the last spot, either one of them will contribute. Faheem and Shadab don't help you win, would be a very defensive move to play either one of those 'all-rounders'
 
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