What's new

Fair to suggest that young Indian batsmen are not as good against spin as their predecessors?

ethan hunt

ethan hunt

First Class Captain
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Runs
5,518
For a country that has produced some of the best players of spin , i feel that the young Indian batsmen coming through the system are not as ruthless or proficient against spin as they used to be , going back to the England series in India against swan and Panesar and later that horror show against Moin Ali , is it due to lack of good spinners coming through or something else ??
 
Been saying it all along, our spin playing ability is overrated.

Swann
Panesar
Moeen
Lyon

All of the above have cashed in against us in the last couple of years.
 
Yes absolutely.
Current gen people have got much to catch up with.
 
Absolutely no doubt about it but then your benchmark of previous generation of Indians batsmen is bit too much.
 
Varun said:
Been saying it all along, our spin playing ability is overrated.

Swann
Panesar
Moeen
Lyon

All of the above have cashed in against us in the last couple of years.
Click to expand...
there's a robin peterson fifer in southafrica somewhere in there too i am sure .
 
Buffet said:
Absolutely no doubt about it but then your benchmark of previous generation of Indians batsmen is bit too much.
Click to expand...

but i am not just talking about the greats even guys like siddhu used to deposit warne into the stands , even their ordinary players were brilliant players of spin .
 
ethan hunt said:
but i am not just talking about the greats even guys like siddhu used to deposit warne into the stands , even their ordinary players were brilliant players of spin .
Click to expand...

Siddhu was a mediocre batsman over all but he was one of the best players of spin I ever saw. I was making the same point with my comment. I don't think that Indians were that great when you go for a bit earlier generations. In middle, they had pretty much the top players of spin in almost every position of their batting order. Basically, players who could dominate spinners even on turners.

Current generation lacks the skill to dominate spin but comparing them to previous generation of Indian batsmen is bit too much when it comes to dominating spin.
 
Rohit and Dhawan are extremely poor by our standards.Raina dosent pick them well too.
Virat , Rahane and Pujara are good . Virat picks the spinners better than all of them , but has got out softly to spinners .
Rayudu is as good as any batsmen I have seen againt spin .
 
Buffet said:
Siddhu was a mediocre batsman over all but he was one of the best players of spin I ever saw. I was making the same point with my comment. I don't think that Indians were that great when you go for a bit earlier generations. In middle, they had pretty much the top players of spin in almost every position of their batting order. Basically, players who could dominate spinners even on turners.

Current generation lacks the skill to dominate spin but comparing them to previous generation of Indian batsmen is bit too much when it comes to dominating spin.
Click to expand...
Fair enough , too young to go back much further then the late 90s so ill take your word .
 
ethan hunt said:
Fair enough , too young to go back much further then the late 90s so ill take your word .
Click to expand...

Well, I am also going by opinions of other posters in different forums. I only started seeing it from late 80s.
 
I think Pakistanis were better players of spin if you go for even older generations.
 
Pakistan has either batsmen who destroy spinners or those who are awful against spinners.

AFridi, Sarfraz are amazing against spinners.

Then we have Azhar Ali and Shehzad who seem to lose all confidence as soon as spin starts.

I've never understood how this discrepancy arises.
 
Buffet said:
I think Pakistanis were better players of spin if you go for even older generations.
Click to expand...

this must be the zaheer abbas , miandad era , i have heard about their proficiency , which side do you reckon is the best against spin these days , most have a couple of decent players of spin , not sure which has the most though ??
 
Time we Indians accept it.

We are really bad.

Even when Murali and Warne were bowling on rank turners, we carted them around.

Now we can't even survive Lyon and Moeen Ali.

Its depressing and sickening to be honest.
 
Dominating spin is one thing but gifting wickets to Moeed Ali was criminal. And now they gifted some easy wickets to Lyon as well.
 
We completely stopped using the feet and taking advantage of the crease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sachin, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag were some of the all-time best players of spin. These kids will always come short in any comparison.
 
Falling short is one thing.

Getting owned by okayish spinners (compared to Warne and Murali) is another.
 
It is unfair to compare the current crop with the Fab 4! People will always remember the Fab 4 batting at their peak, and compare them with these youngsters who are just starting out. Give them time, unfair to compare now. Of course they will come out short.
 
I would say it doesn't help that we are going two years without playing a game at home, five years before touring Lanka, and never playing a game in Pakistan/UAE/Bangladesh either.
 
Also fair to suggest that Indian spinners are not as good as they used to be, which has implications for the batsmen who grow up playing them.
 
it wasnt like our domestic was full of world class spinners back then .

The issue is approach these days , the amount if T20 they play has had an impact as well . Most of these batsmen can take spinners apart if it is a shorter format of the game . its when you ask them to block they find it difficult .
 
The older generation could take spinners apart and NOT get out.

This generation either gets out defending or attacks a bit and gets out.

Barring a few that is.
 
jusarrived said:
it wasnt like our domestic was full of world class spinners back then .

The issue is approach these days , the amount if T20 they play has had an impact as well . Most of these batsmen can take spinners apart if it is a shorter format of the game . its when you ask them to block they find it difficult .
Click to expand...
Then play that way.Blocking is getting you out anyway
 
Less skilled than their predecessors. Its a reflection of the changes taking place at the FC level. Less number of good spinners coming up and consequently, lesser-skilled batsmen against spin.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Time we Indians accept it.

We are really bad.

Even when Murali and Warne were bowling on rank turners, we carted them around.

Now we can't even survive Lyon and Moeen Ali.

Its depressing and sickening to be honest.
Click to expand...

Lack of a proper spinners in domestic is the real cause. we keep on talking about how we lacked a world class
fast bowler, but I think its the lack of genuine spinners which is hurting us lately. Spinners getting selected for test based on IpL performances :facepalm: How our young batsmen are supposed to do well in International arena, if they continued to play pathetic spinners like karn Sharma, or even worse in domestic tournaments
 
Not surprising because our spin bowling talent is also not on par with the previous generations and so they don't get to face very high quality spin in domestic games or in the nets. Look at SA batsmen who are good at tackling pace - facing bowlers like Steyn in the nets is definitely one of the reasons why they are so good.
 
As a short-term outlook on this thread - tomorrow is the test.

If we can survive Lyon on a difficult day 5 surface, it may not be as bad as it looks.
 
Varun said:
As a short-term outlook on this thread - tomorrow is the test.

If we can survive Lyon on a difficult day 5 surface, it may not be as bad as it looks.
Click to expand...

But you are not winning either way.

If you don't survive, Indian batsmen are awful against spin and Pakistan would walk all over them.

If you do, Lyon is not the benchmark and Babar and Yasir are on UAE tracks

Can't win this :P
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But you are not winning either way.

If you don't survive, Indian batsmen are awful against spin and Pakistan would walk all over them.

If you do, Lyon is not the benchmark and Babar and Yasir are on UAE tracks

Can't win this :P
Click to expand...

We want to bat out the draw for our own cricketing satisfaction, and not for PP's ever-changing benchmarks for Indian players. :wave
 
I think its because the current batsman feel like they need to whack the spinners out of the attack just because they're subcon players when all they need to do is play each ball on its merit. Another possible reason could be because maybe Indian batsman are trying to improve their game against faster bowlers so have maybe neglected their work against spinners a bit?
 
This might sound silly, but everyone can admit SL are probably the best at spin, and I can answer why.

I am not calling Sri Lankans chuckers, but my friends who have gone there and played on the street say a lot of people chuck and try to hit every ball for six :afridi

They are bought up at a young age playing against chuckers who spin the ball more with accuracy, whereas India apparently have clamped down on chuckers so it is relatively more easy.

Just a theory...
 
lyon bowled really well in this dig but sadly that doesn't even seem to factor into this for most people.
 
Dee1990 said:
I think its because the current batsman feel like they need to whack the spinners out of the attack just because they're subcon players when all they need to do is play each ball on its merit. Another possible reason could be because maybe Indian batsman are trying to improve their game against faster bowlers so have maybe neglected their work against spinners a bit?
Click to expand...

I think the issue is this. Indian batsmen do not have so much problem with turn as they have with bounce, as far as spinners are concerned. Lyon would probably go for a lot of runs if he plays in India, and he averages 49 in Asia. Indians do have to respect him under home conditions.
 
Actually even the seniors went downhill against spinners in their last years. Just got to do with the fact that people are not playing enough domestic cricket on challenging spinning surfaces anymore.
 
Pujara and Kohli are very good players of spin. Haven't seen enough of Rahane to judge him vs spinners.

The problem they're facing vs spinners away though is they just go after them. They need to curb their instincts and just hit the bad balls, not everything.
 
ethan hunt said:
this must be the zaheer abbas , miandad era , i have heard about their proficiency , which side do you reckon is the best against spin these days , most have a couple of decent players of spin , not sure which has the most though ??
Click to expand...

Yah, I was talking about that era. Back then Pakistan really used to dominate spinners. At that time , Indians had many great spinners and Pakistan still did well against them.

Right now, the best team against spinners may be SL but I am not 100% sure as well. I don't see SL facing spinners on turners often. Wickets they get in UAE and SL are not turners. I think they are going to tour India after WC and that will give us a better indication. Apart from SL, I will say Pakistan and SA plays spin well.



I would have said SA before Kallis/Smith retired but not now.
 
Well the previous generation included

Sehwag
Tendulkar
VVS
Dravid
Ganguly

I doubt there has been a better spin playing line up in the history of the game.

These players are young i doubt anyone has more than 30 tests.They are good but not as brilliant as the above line up.Also these guys seem to be trying to be casual againist spin after they had have to weather a trial by Pace.
 
The previous generation of indian batsman was simply exceptional at playing spin. Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly were all great players of spin. Special Dravid and Tendulkar were legendary players of spin.

WOuld have been very hard for anyone to keep up those standards. That said, I don't think anyone would have expected would Moeen Ali and now Lyon did to the indian line-up.
 
octavian said:
The previous generation of indian batsman was simply exceptional at playing spin. Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly were all great players of spin. Special Dravid and Tendulkar were legendary players of spin.

WOuld have been very hard for anyone to keep up those standards. That said, I don't think anyone would have expected would Moeen Ali and now Lyon did to the indian line-up.
Click to expand...

To be honest, Lyon was bowling very well.
 
octavian said:
The previous generation of indian batsman was simply exceptional at playing spin. Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly were all great players of spin. Special Dravid and Tendulkar were legendary players of spin.

WOuld have been very hard for anyone to keep up those standards. That said, I don't think anyone would have expected would Moeen Ali and now Lyon did to the indian line-up.
Click to expand...
Sehwag was the best player of spin.Exceptional.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Mainly outside India.I guess they are being casual againist spinners as they are being too cautious againist Pacers.
Click to expand...

Still its happening too often and its affecting us.

After Moeen Ali owned us in the 3rd test. reports came out that our batsmen practiced sweep shot to counter him.

In the 2nd innings in 4th test (if I remember correctly - he didn't bowl in 1st innings or maybe 1 over), we still got out to him.

Its not a simple issue.

Even against Lyon and Maxwell at home, our lower order folded quite a few times easily.

Vijay and Pujara were the main guys in tat series aided by 1 innings performance by others.

Its one thing to not match up to the level of Fab 4 but another to not be really good at it.

Others have now noticing it a lot.

The trends look very disappointing as of now. Hope it improves.

As FC said, our batsmen don't play so much on rank turners against good domestic spinners and the result shows. Manjrekar mentioned something similar too during the England tour.
 
The current Indian batting lacks patience. They try to attack spinners for no reason. You need to have a good defence against spinners and need to judge the length better. Saha was giving a great demostration of how to play Lyon. Other Indian batters are too impatient to be successful. Rohit Sharma was the worst yesterday, there was no need for him to charge the spinner after he had just tonked him over the top. The funny thing is that Ian Chappel was just mentioning the shot Rohit played against Moeen in the 3rd test when he was batting well on 20 odd, the very next ball he chiped it back to the bowler.
 
Sehwag inspite of rubbish footwork used to play spinners well current day batsmen are rubbish at using the crease. Rahaane was mindlessly slogging against Lyon just because Vijay did well.
 
Taking apart Johnson, Harris, Siddle.

Cant pla Nathan Lyon. :facepalm:
 
7 wickets to Lyon.

What is happening.
 
Tbf lyon bowled really well but i think its pretty obvious now .A new day a new spinner.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Lyon bowled BRILLIANTLY. Taking nothing away from him of course.
Click to expand...

Dude as well as lyon bowled , i have to say that the leg spinner you guys put on the park was pretty rubbish , if Shane warne doesnt rate legspinner you know he must be really ordinary , maybe the standard of spinners coming through and the spin playing ability are correlated .
 
ethan hunt said:
Dude as well as lyon bowled , i have to say that the leg spinner you guys put on the park was pretty rubbish , if Shane warne doesnt rate legspinner you know he must be really ordinary , maybe the standard of spinners coming through and the spin playing ability are correlated .
Click to expand...

Yes it is. :(
 
Back to normal service for now.

Lyon wicketless and getting belted.
 
Nathan lyon finishes with most wickets for the series .
who would have thought :kohli.
Would love to have seen Herath against this aussie lineup on these wickets ,especially adelaide , i think he might have won a test for srilanka.
 
Well that escalated quickly .the batsmen coming through have real issues against spin and that will be obvious the more they play in the subcontinent . Comparatively Pakistan are lucky to have sarfraz and younis in the lineup , two absolute guns against spin.
 
think this is true with all sub continent countries but more so with india.
 
Bangladesh aren't that good either against Spin.

SA spinners destroyed us in the T20s while in tests their part timers made us struggle
 
Isn't Gambhir still around?

Amazing player of spin and probably the best I've seen from Ind.

He should get a call up in these conditions.
 
Barragan said:
Isn't Gambhir still around?

Amazing player of spin and probably the best I've seen from Ind.

He should get a call up in these conditions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, best player of spin from India in the last decade. Problem with India is that he was tried in English conditions and he comes across as a walking wicket in those condition because he tends to play the ball away from his body at times
 
Somebody please remove Mr. Rohit Sharma from this Indian side.

Raju baan gaya gentleman, magaar Rohit baan gaya No Hit *:ghalib
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gambhir and Sehwag can easily walk into this side. At least they would make their usual 30s and not digit scores like Rohit.
 
Executioner said:
Yeah, best player of spin from India in the last decade. Problem with India is that he was tried in English conditions and he comes across as a walking wicket in those condition because he tends to play the ball away from his body at times
Click to expand...

Losing in Eng isn't as bad as losing in the sub-continent, so they may have to put with his failures abroad.

Who knows, he could have got that match-winning 40* today?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

FearlessRoar
"There is a misconception that India are good at playing spin": Simon Doull
Replies
65
Views
2K
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
Unbiased-Fan
Players who are better than their stats suggest
2
Replies
130
Views
4K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
BouncerGuy
"It should be just as tough to beat Pakistan at home as it is for the Pakistan team when they go to Australia or South Africa": Aaqib Javed
Replies
11
Views
802
pakfan54588
P
FearlessRoar
Did Pakistan's decision to avoid a specialist spinner cost them the 2024-25 Test series against South Africa?
Replies
33
Views
2K
Abdullah
A
Gullycricket
Does anyone feel that the newer crop of Indian cricketers indulges in needless aggression against other teams?
Replies
79
Views
2K
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Back
Top