Faizabad is Ayodhya, new airport after Ram: Yogi Adityanath

[MenInG]

As the chorus for early construction of a Ram temple at the disputed Ayodhya site grows within the Sangh Parivar in the run-up to the Lok Sabha elections, Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath lent weight at ground zero, announcing Tuesday that Faizabad district, home to the pilgrim town, will henceforth be known as Ayodhya.

He also declared that Ayodhya will have its own airport named after Ram and a medical college named after Ram’s father King Dashrath. Cheering the announcements, people in the crowd raised slogans of “Yogiji ek kaam karo, Mandir ka nirman karo (Yogi, do this work: build the temple)”.
“Ayodhya is a symbol of our aan, baan aur shaan (honour, pride and prestige). Nobody can do injustice to Ayodhya,” Adityanath said at the Deepotsava celebrations here which was also attended by South Korean First Lady Kim Jung-sook, UP Governor Ram Naik, Bihar Governor Lalji Tandon and Minister of State (External Affairs) Gen (retd) V K Singh.

“Hum ne in smritiyo ko banaye rakha hai isliye, jis se Maryada Purshottam Bhagwan Ram ko koi aap ki smritiyo se chheen na paaye. Lekin keval naaro mei hum apne aaradhya devon ko seemit na rakhein (we have preserved these memories so that no one can snatch Lord Ram from your memories. But we should not limit our gods to just slogans),” he said.

Several projects, including redevelopment of Ram-ki-Paidi and stopping disposal of sewage in the Saryu river, were launched at the event.
The Chief Minister and the South Korean First Lady laid the foundation stone for a memorial to Queen Heo Hwang-ok who, according to a Korean legend, was an Ayodhya princess who married King Suro of Geumgwan Gaya. The memorial will be built over an area of 10,000 sq m.

“Those who divert from their past are like Trishanku. We are here in Ayodhya to connect with our history. Delegates from Korea are here to connect with their past. Korea is witness that Ayodhya’s recognition should be only in the form of Ayodhya… I want to tell you all, from today this district’s name will be known as Ayodhya,” Adityanath said.

Artistes dressed as Lord Ram, Laxman, and Sita. Also seen in the picture is South Korean First Lady, Kim Jung-sook.(Source: Express photo by Vishal Srivastav)
He said Prime Minister Narendra Modi had started a bus service from Janakpur in Nepal to Ayodhya and this time, “on the occasion of the wedding of Ram and Janaki”, he would himself go to Janakpur.

A week ago, after the Supreme Court deferred hearing in the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid title suit, Adityanath had said “sometimes, justice delayed is equivalent to injustice”.

An artiste dressed as Lord Ram arriving in a helicopter. (Source: Express photo by Vishal Srivastav)
He said he was of the opinion that the issue should be resolved at the earliest. On the demand that the Centre bring a legislation to allow construction of the Ram temple, he said there exist “other options”, and the best step should be considered.

“Ram Janmabhoomi se jo juda hua mamla hai woh mananiya uchchattam nyayalaya mei hai. Samay par mila nyay. uttam nyay maana jata hai. Nyay mei deri, kabhi, kabhi anyay ke saman ho jata hai (The issue related to Ram Janmabhoomi is in the Supreme Court. Justice which is timely is considered the best justice. Sometimes, justice delayed is equivalent to injustice),” Adityanath had said in a video released on his Twitter handle.

The Supreme Court has ordered listing of appeals against the Allahabad High Court order in the Ayodhya title suit before an “appropriate bench” in the first week of January 2019 to fix a date for hearing.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...-yogi-adityanath-diwali-celebrations-5436230/

 

[PakLFC]

They should just rename India as Ramistan, Yogistan or Modistan now. I would hate to be a Muslim in India with all this going on. It is clearly at attempt to saffronise India with or without a Ram Mandir coming in to existence. Just again confirms the genius that was Muhammad Ali Jinnah who saw it all coming.

 

[Slog]

Lol they still call their country by the british given name of India

 

[hussain.r97]

Lol they still call their country by the british given name of India

Someone correct me if I have it wrong, but wasn't the name "India", before the British came along, historically used to describe the region around the Indus river (aka, modern Pakistan)?

Both India and Hindustan are derived from the word "Sindhu", the Sanskrit name for the Indus river. India being the Greek word to describe the region, while Hind/Hindustan being the Persian word.

Technically speaking, they have called their country by a foreign name, and the name they have used is a historical name that does not really even describe modern India's geographical location.

 

[Madplayer]

It isnt many times that you feel lucky to he born in Kashmir.

 

[TM Riddle]

Someone correct me if I have it wrong, but wasn't the name "India", before the British came along, historically used to describe the region around the Indus river (aka, modern Pakistan)?

Both India and Hindustan are derived from the word "Sindhu", the Sanskrit name for the Indus river. India being the Greek word to describe the region, while Hind/Hindustan being the Persian word.

Technically speaking, they have called their country by a foreign name, and the name they have used is a historical name that does not really even describe modern India's geographical location.

In our constitution The country is called by both names i.e India and Bharat.

Using your logic, can't even use Bharat since it was the name of one of the tribes from North West and the name of a King who ruled parts of North India.Had no relation with North east and South India.

After that we are left with Hindustan which is again a misnomer since Hindustan was originally an area from Indus to Ganga.

What should we call it then?

 

[TM Riddle]

Also it's ridiculous to assume that the name India was coined by Greeks only to describe people living around Indus.

For instance, Megasthenes who was a court ambassador in Chandragupta's court wrote his classical work Indika to describe the lives of people of Magadha. The same Magadha which now forms the part of Eastern Bihar i.e nearer to Bangladesh.

It's clear that for Bactrian Greeks, India comprised of almost whole North Indian Subcontinent. Later on this definition kept on modifying and by the time British arrived the whole Subcontinent was came to be known as India.

 

[hussain.r97]

Also it's ridiculous to assume that the name India was coined by Greeks only to describe people living around Indus.

For instance, Megasthenes who was a court ambassador in Chandragupta's court wrote his classical work Indika to describe the lives of people of Magadha. The same Magadha which now forms the part of Eastern Bihar i.e nearer to Bangladesh.

It's clear that for Bactrian Greeks, India comprised of almost whole North Indian Subcontinent. Later on this definition kept on modifying and by the time British arrived the whole Subcontinent was came to be known as India.

I guess the definition of 'India' was quite fluid then. Doing a bit of reading, and it seems that some ancient historians only called the Indus area India, some called everything between the Indus, Bengal, and Himalayas India, while some even went as far as incorporating Malaysia, Indonesia, etc into India.

 

[TM Riddle]

I guess the definition of 'India' was quite fluid then. Doing a bit of reading, and it seems that some ancient historians only called the Indus area India, some called everything between the Indus, Bengal, and Himalayas India, while some even went as far as incorporating Malaysia, Indonesia, etc into India.

Yes the Subcontinent as a whole has been referred to as India/Hindustan by multiple European and Arab Travellers.

Al Biruni's famous work Kitab-al-Hind has the description of people from Modern day KPK to Madhya Pradesh/Bihar.

Ibn Battuta, Abdur Razzak, Nicolo Conti etc also called the whole region India.

 

[TM Riddle]

I guess the definition of 'India' was quite fluid then. Doing a bit of reading, and it seems that some ancient historians only called the Indus area India, some called everything between the Indus, Bengal, and Himalayas India, while some even went as far as incorporating Malaysia, Indonesia, etc into India.

Also you are wrong about Malaysia , Indonesia etc. They were collectively called as Swarna bhumi and had nothing to do with the ancient/medieval definition of India.

 

[hussain.r97]

Also you are wrong about Malaysia , Indonesia etc. They were collectively called as Swarna bhumi and had nothing to do with the ancient/medieval definition of India.

I am not saying that most historians said that, I am saying there have been one or two instances of historains saying that India stretches beyond the Ganges, and out to Indonesia. My point was that there have been multiple definitions of "India" coined by various historians.

 

[TM Riddle]

I am not saying that most historians said that, I am saying there have been one or two instances of historains saying that India stretches beyond the Ganges, and out to Indonesia. My point was that there have been multiple definitions of "India" coined by various historians.

Which perfectly justifies modern Republic of India using the name India as an official one since it's current geographical area forms the largest part of historic 'India'.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am genuinely surprised that it has taken hundreds of years for this to finally come about. Mughal empire came to an end so long ago, yet many Indian cities still carry the legacy of that era. I can only guess that Indians of the past didn't carry their religion card with as much animosity as they do now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I am genuinely surprised that it has taken hundreds of years for this to finally come about. Mughal empire came to an end so long ago, yet many Indian cities still carry the legacy of that era. I can only guess that Indians of the past didn't carry their religion card with as much animosity as they do now.

It is only since a couple of years when Uttar Pradesh had a Hindu Ruler after decades of satanic sickular rule. Thanks to demoncrazy, he may not be reelected, but has fulfilled his duty towards Hindu Dharma and will be remembered as a Hindu Warrior india needed but not deserved.

 

[kaayal]

All these drama by BJP is to just hide their pathetic governance. Let them built the temple, rename the cities ,districts and airports, build statute of Ram etc if that marks the end of this communal tirade in this so called "Secular" country. Knowing BJP, they will prolong this Ram Temple issue as much as they can. That's their main weopon during elections in the BIMARU belt. Poor believers are the one who are fooled here.

There are more interesting happening in our country tbh. I am looking into the ongoing battle between RBI and the Govt. Their threatening of RBI governor, deputy governor over their policies, Govt wanting of 3.6 lakh crore from RBI, a third of it's reserves etc, Then there is the CBI infightings, the Rafale controversy, Karnataka bye election results and our own Sabarimala issue.

 

[CricketCartoons]

There are more interesting happening in our country tbh. I am looking into the ongoing battle between RBI and the Govt. Their threatening of RBI governor, deputy governor over their policies, Govt wanting of 3.6 lakh crore from RBI, a third of it's reserves etc, Then there is the CBI infightings, the Rafale controversy, Karnataka bye election results and our own Sabarimala issue.

out of all these the sabarimala circus is the most entertaining, the rss malayalis vs the comrade malayalis.

 

[kaayal]

out of all these the sabarimala circus is the most entertaining, the rss malayalis vs the comrade malayalis.

The idiotic BJP state leadership needs some spanking from Amit Shah. They openly declared that this is a golden opportunity for BJP to make their holds strong in Kerala. They need to know when to open their mouth and when not to in Kerala.

He also adviced the Chief priest of Sabarimala to act against the Supreme court order by closing the temple while woman were approaching it, thus making him no.1 suspect in the contempt of court case lol. Then there is Rahul Easwar and his Plan B, C etc making a mockery out of Sabarimala. BJP state leadership can't seems to get anything right tbh.

The Govt and Police is doing exactly what the Supreme court has ordered it to do. With all due respect to the devotees, they should go to court instead of dancing to the tunes of Tantri, Parikarmis, Panthalam family, Nair society and the RSS.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The idiotic BJP state leadership needs some spanking from Amit Shah. They openly declared that this is a golden opportunity for BJP to make their holds strong in Kerala. They need to know when to open their mouth and when not to in Kerala.

He also adviced the Chief priest of Sabarimala to act against the Supreme court order by closing the temple while woman were approaching it, thus making him no.1 suspect in the contempt of court case lol. Then there is Rahul Easwar and his Plan B, C etc making a mockery out of Sabarimala. BJP state leadership can't seems to get anything right tbh.

The Govt and Police is doing exactly what the Supreme court has ordered it to do. With all due respect to the devotees, they should go to court instead of dancing to the tunes of Tantri, Parikarmis, Panthalam family, Nair society and the RSS.

the supreme court is needlessly wasting time and energy, it is time that they are brought under the control of the executive, as there are far more pressing issues than that of sabarimala. But you are right, the monkeys should go to the court and get a judgement in their favour instead of taking the law in their own hands. the police has been too soft on these extremists.

 

[Madplayer]

the supreme court is needlessly wasting time and energy, it is time that they are brought under the control of the executive, as there are far more pressing issues than that of sabarimala. But you are right, the monkeys should go to the court and get a judgement in their favour instead of taking the law in their own hands. the police has been too soft on these extremists.

You are speaking like an adharmi now. Whatever happened to protection of age of customs and local beliefs? Calling those people as monkeys who are fighting to protect ancient Indian concepts of purity and impurity of women is a shocking on your part. You have betrayed your ideology and are henceforth declared a liberal progressive feminist which would kill me if i was labelled with it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The idiotic BJP state leadership needs some spanking from Amit Shah. They openly declared that this is a golden opportunity for BJP to make their holds strong in Kerala. They need to know when to open their mouth and when not to in Kerala.

He also adviced the Chief priest of Sabarimala to act against the Supreme court order by closing the temple while woman were approaching it, thus making him no.1 suspect in the contempt of court case lol. Then there is Rahul Easwar and his Plan B, C etc making a mockery out of Sabarimala. BJP state leadership can't seems to get anything right tbh.

The Govt and Police is doing exactly what the Supreme court has ordered it to do. With all due respect to the devotees, they should go to court instead of dancing to the tunes of Tantri, Parikarmis, Panthalam family, Nair society and the RSS.

The devotees are doing exactly what they should do. Protecting the sanctity of their shrine. Protesting is a fundamental right in a democracy. A temple or a mosque or a church or a gurudwara is a place of faith and not activism. If you do not have faith in the rules of that shrine do not visit it.

 

[TM Riddle]

The devotees are doing exactly what they should do. Protecting the sanctity of their shrine. Protesting is a fundamental right in a democracy. A temple or a mosque or a church or a gurudwara is a place of faith and not activism. If you do not have faith in the rules of that shrine do not visit it.

I love it when Indian Muslims suddenly turn into progressive liberals when the shoe is on other foot.

 

[Brahmarshi]

I guess the definition of 'India' was quite fluid then. Doing a bit of reading, and it seems that some ancient historians only called the Indus area India, some called everything between the Indus, Bengal, and Himalayas India, while some even went as far as incorporating Malaysia, Indonesia, etc into India.

Turm India is similar to asia minor.

Asia minor was named Azia but with greeks help whole continent was named Asia after they conquered west Asia.

India was used from people East of Indus till the end.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I love it when Indian Muslims suddenly turn into progressive liberals when the shoe is on other foot.

Too much of appeasement has resulted in this.

 

[kaayal]

The devotees are doing exactly what they should do. Protecting the sanctity of their shrine. Protesting is a fundamental right in a democracy. A temple or a mosque or a church or a gurudwara is a place of faith and not activism. If you do not have faith in the rules of that shrine do not visit it.

What happened to the constitutional laws and the supreme court orders that you used to respect a lot?? Where are the bhakhts now who were celebrating the Shahbano case, triple talaq verdict and woman empowerment when it comes to the right of 10-50yr old women entering the Sabarimala temple?

 

[kaayal]

I love it when Indian Muslims suddenly turn into progressive liberals when the shoe is on other foot.

Indian muslim is very vague term scattered everywhere in India with no union of themselves. If you were specifically to addressing me quote it directly.

 

[Swashbuckler]

The idiotic BJP state leadership needs some spanking from Amit Shah. They openly declared that this is a golden opportunity for BJP to make their holds strong in Kerala. They need to know when to open their mouth and when not to in Kerala.

He also adviced the Chief priest of Sabarimala to act against the Supreme court order by closing the temple while woman were approaching it, thus making him no.1 suspect in the contempt of court case lol. Then there is Rahul Easwar and his Plan B, C etc making a mockery out of Sabarimala. BJP state leadership can't seems to get anything right tbh.

The Govt and Police is doing exactly what the Supreme court has ordered it to do. With all due respect to the devotees, they should go to court instead of dancing to the tunes of Tantri, Parikarmis, Panthalam family, Nair society and the RSS.

This is a classic case of judicial over reach and devotees have every right to protest. Court can't decide the rule of business within a shrine unless some criminal activity is taking place. There are some women only temples and some men only temples in Hinduism, centuries old tradition which even the Islamic rulers and British stayed away from. There are valid reasons as well because of some mantras, method of worship etc not going into details.

I say the same for shrines of other religions as well, if some dargah/mosque has a dress code or method of worship need to obey it. Tomorrow court will say people should wear whatever they want in mosques/churches/temples and then activists will shout 'freedom of choice'? It is a shame that people who have no faith in certain matters want to interfere in age old customs. Do any of these activists or judges have any faith in the deity? All they want is cheap publicity, Trupti Desai did that drama in Shani temple and Haji Ali Dargah, after that how many times did she visit them? Rohinton Nariman wants to teach Hindus a lesson yet doesn't have a word to say about the plight of Parsis and the discrimination they face when they marry outside their religion. Less said about that ***** Arnab Goswami the better for my sanity. Everyone wants to reform the others against their will without gaining any understanding of the underlying situation.

Going by your logic, tomorrow if SC decides how Indian Muslims must pray in a particular mosque or how Holy Koran has to be read I take it that Muslims will accept it sportingly and not stage any demonstration?

 

[TM Riddle]

Indian muslim is very vague term scattered everywhere in India with no union of themselves. If you were specifically to addressing me quote it directly.

Kaayal, do you believe Govt should have right to interfere in the religious practices of people?

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION] the Triple Talaq verdict was related to the instant Triple Talaq only, the ones given by whatsapp, email, SMS etc. The court didn't even comment on other types of divorce practiced by Muslims. I don't think any Islamic source talks about this instantaneous divorce initiated by the husband. SC didn't attack any fundamental aspect of Islam/faith, in Sabarimala case SC is interfering in Hinduism and disregarding faith of devotees. The deity (not God) has certain rules and regulations in the temple and it is a part of the religion, have to respect that.

When Bombay HC asked Haji Ali Dargah to allow women near the grave of the saint, it was Rahul Easwar who was most vocal against the judgement. This happened way back in 2015-16 I guess and Rahul and like minded people would come on shows and defend the right of places of worship to have their own rules. Those who are protesting now also supported the Muslim devotees 2 years back, this isn't a communal issue, it is a matter of respecting age old customs of our land. The priests of Sabarimala even promised financial and legal support to Haji Ali Trust in the SC, this happened 2 years ago when Sabarimala wasn't even in the picture.

 

[TM Riddle]

What happened to the constitutional laws and the supreme court orders that you used to respect a lot?? Where are the bhakhts now who were celebrating the Shahbano case, triple talaq verdict and woman empowerment when it comes to the right of 10-50yr old women entering the Sabarimala temple?

I suppose you won't have any issues when SC declares that men and women should pray together in a mosque and that the segregation based on gender violates art 14.

And are you honestly comparing Triple Talaq case with this issue? The former is gross violation of women rights while the later is practiced only in one Temple throughout the country and that too because of specific beliefs pertaining to the local deity.

What a disappointment really.

 

[Hornbill]

This is a classic case of judicial over reach and devotees have every right to protest. Court can't decide the rule of business within a shrine unless some criminal activity is taking place. There are some women only temples and some men only temples in Hinduism, centuries old tradition which even the Islamic rulers and British stayed away from. There are valid reasons as well because of some mantras, method of worship etc not going into details.

I say the same for shrines of other religions as well, if some dargah/mosque has a dress code or method of worship need to obey it. Tomorrow court will say people should wear whatever they want in mosques/churches/temples and then activists will shout 'freedom of choice'? It is a shame that people who have no faith in certain matters want to interfere in age old customs. Do any of these activists or judges have any faith in the deity? All they want is cheap publicity, Trupti Desai did that drama in Shani temple and Haji Ali Dargah, after that how many times did she visit them? Rohinton Nariman wants to teach Hindus a lesson yet doesn't have a word to say about the plight of Parsis and the discrimination they face when they marry outside their religion. Less said about that ***** Arnab Goswami the better for my sanity. Everyone wants to reform the others against their will without gaining any understanding of the underlying situation.

Going by your logic, tomorrow if SC decides how Indian Muslims must pray in a particular mosque or how Holy Koran has to be read I take it that Muslims will accept it sportingly and not stage any demonstration?

It was a classic case of judicial over reach when high court of Kerala (particular judge)in 1991decided to ban the entry of women between the age of 10 to 50 without even recieving a formal petition. Now supreme realised the error in judgement and overturned the verdict.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I suppose you won't have any issues when SC declares that men and women should pray together in a mosque and that the segregation based on gender violates art 14.

And are you honestly comparing Triple Talaq case with this issue? The former is gross violation of women rights while the later is practiced only in one Temple throughout the country and that too because of specific beliefs pertaining to the local deity.

What a disappointment really.

I was visiting the vatican city last month. There was a dress code where your shoulders should be covered and knees should not be exposed, among other things, otherwise the entry was denied. I felt it was a gross violation of my human rights to dress the way I deem fit. If only there were progressive malayalis and supreme court milords at the vatican.

 

[TM Riddle]

I was visiting the vatican city last month. There was a dress code where your shoulders should be covered and knees should not be exposed, among other things, otherwise the entry was denied. I felt it was a gross violation of my human rights to dress the way I deem fit. If only there were progressive malayalis and supreme court milords at the vatican.

Bhakts from BIMARU states like you are a cancer to the secular fabric of India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What happened to the constitutional laws and the supreme court orders that you used to respect a lot?? Where are the bhakhts now who were celebrating the Shahbano case, triple talaq verdict and woman empowerment when it comes to the right of 10-50yr old women entering the Sabarimala temple?

What is your view about the shahbano case?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

I was visiting the vatican city last month. There was a dress code where your shoulders should be covered and knees should not be exposed, among other things, otherwise the entry was denied. I felt it was a gross violation of my human rights to dress the way I deem fit. If only there were progressive malayalis and supreme court milords at the vatican.

That's not a great example of what you're trying to prove - unless the dress code was different for men and women, or different for people of different races/faiths.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That's not a great example of what you're trying to prove - unless the dress code was different for men and women, or different for people of different races/faiths.

How do you know what I was trying to prove? our desi liberals would be united in honoring the dress code of the vatican and will congratulate each other when a malayali sister is beatificated by the vatican but the babas must be mocked if they are called saints by their followers and every local religious custom must be trampled upon.

 

[enkidu_]

Yes the Subcontinent as a whole has been referred to as India/Hindustan by multiple European and Arab Travellers.

Al Biruni's famous work Kitab-al-Hind has the description of people from Modern day KPK to Madhya Pradesh/Bihar.

Ibn Battuta, Abdur Razzak, Nicolo Conti etc also called the whole region India.

No Pakistan was called al Sind in Arabic works :

Sind, in point of fact, while vaguely defined territorially, overlaps rather well with what is currently Pakistan. It definitely did extend beyond the present province of Sindh and Makran ; the whole of Balochistan was included, a part of the Panjab, and the North-Western Frontier Province.

André Wink, Al-Hind, the Making of the Indo-Islamic World, Volume 1, p. 145

They always made the "al Hind" (India) and "al Sind" (Pakistan) differences.

"India" itself is mainly a geographical term, indeed taken from the Indus river, and the same way ancestors of Iraqis never called themselves "Mesopotamians", a geographical term imposed by foreigners, the same way "Indians" never called themselves "Indians", used by Persians and Greeks ; they identified as "Hindus", with many set of sub-national identities adding to it (caste/tribe).

In fact, Islamization was the reason medieval Arabs differentiated "al Sind" from "al Hind", the latter remaining idolater, keeping in mind religion was one's "nation" back then, as MA Jinnah/Savarkar saw :

This confusion about al-Sind's relation to al-Hind and the conception of al-Sind as including a relatively vast area can be explained by the fact that bath regions were at this time regarded as having similar religions practices, i.e., idolatry. Al-Sind, however, witnessed gradual Muslim establishments at the time when the accounts were written.

Beginning with Ibn Kurdadba (end of 9th century CE), there was a tendency to draw a better distinction between these two regions. Ibn Kurdadba clearly separates al-Sind from al-Hind and ascribes to al-Sind the area of present-day Pakistan, as also some parts oflndia (Kanauj, Broach and Sindan). For Istakrî and Ibn Hawqal (mid-10th century CE), however, al-Sind corresponded mainly to the area of southern Pakistan. For instance, Ibn Hawqal situates the frontier between al-Sind and al-Hind in the region of present-day Gujarat. Moreover, he describes the kingdom of Ragrakütas as 'a land of infidels' with cities, however, harbouring Muslims. For Mas'üdï (mid-11th century CE), al-Sind constituted the western frontier of al- Hind. The Hudud al-Alam considers al- Hind different from al- Sind and delineates, for the first time, a defined territory for bath regions. It also offers other information regarding the religions landscape of the region. According to this text, al-Sind was inhabited by Muslims. In the coastal area of Malabar, where the Ratrakutas were ruling, Hindus and Muslims lived together, as well as in the neighbourhood of Multan. Kanauj and its dependencies, among which was Kashmir, were occupied by the Brahmins and idolatrous people, and so were some areas in western Gujarat. This source, thus, indicates that the people of al-Sind, in contrast to other regions of al-Hind, had been accultured to Islam.

Noémie Verdon, "Cartography and cultural encounter: conceptualisation of al-Hind of Arabic and Persian writers from the 9th to 11th c. A.D.", in Himanshu Prabha Ray (ed.), Negotiating Cultural Identity: Landscapes in Early Medieval South Asian History , pp. 50-51

^so when peoples say "Bin Qasim was the first Pakistani", it's barely an hyperbole : with the Islamic conquest he laid down the foundations of a new nation (in the old European romantic sense, prized by MA Jinnah/Savarkar), the nation of Islam, which ofc led to geographical distinction as well ("al Sind").

Btw the same author says that if Al Biruni's "Al Hind" is larger, it's because the imperial thirst of the Ghaznavids wouldn't limit itself, that's all, they wanted to conquer everything in few words.

 

[TM Riddle]

No Pakistan was called al Sind in Arabic works :



André Wink, Al-Hind, the Making of the Indo-Islamic World, Volume 1, p. 145

They always made the "al Hind" (India) and "al Sind" (Pakistan) differences.

"India" itself is mainly a geographical term, indeed taken from the Indus river, and the same way ancestors of Iraqis never called themselves "Mesopotamians", a geographical term imposed by foreigners, the same way "Indians" never called themselves "Indians", used by Persians and Greeks ; they identified as "Hindus", with many set of sub-national identities adding to it (caste/tribe).

In fact, Islamization was the reason medieval Arabs differentiated "al Sind" from "al Hind", the latter remaining idolater, keeping in mind religion was one's "nation" back then, as MA Jinnah/Savarkar saw :



Noémie Verdon, "Cartography and cultural encounter: conceptualisation of al-Hind of Arabic and Persian writers from the 9th to 11th c. A.D.", in Himanshu Prabha Ray (ed.), Negotiating Cultural Identity: Landscapes in Early Medieval South Asian History , pp. 50-51

^so when peoples say "Bin Qasim was the first Pakistani", it's barely an hyperbole : with the Islamic conquest he laid down the foundations of a new nation (in the old European romantic sense, prized by MA Jinnah/Savarkar), the nation of Islam, which ofc led to geographical distinction as well ("al Sind").

Btw the same author says that if Al Biruni's "Al Hind" is larger, it's because the imperial thirst of the Ghaznavids wouldn't limit itself, that's all, they wanted to conquer everything in few words.

This post of yours take the cake for biggest ** ever spouted in the history of Pakpassion.

You win Bro. I accept defeat.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Too much of appeasement has resulted in this.

This just goes to endorse an earlier post I made in the other thread that it does seem as if India's Muslims are a rogue minority. As a neutral party I wish India well in their efforts to bring them in line in understanding their place in society.

As a sidenote, I hope Pakistan doesn't reciprocate by renaming places like Lahore or Toba Tek Singh...they tried that once before but the proud people of that town rebelled and the idea was abandoned.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This just goes to endorse an earlier post I made in the other thread that it does seem as if India's Muslims are a rogue minority. As a neutral party I wish India well in their efforts to bring them in line in understanding their place in society.

As a sidenote, I hope Pakistan doesn't reciprocate by renaming places like Lahore or Toba Tek Singh...they tried that once before but the proud people of that town rebelled and the idea was abandoned.

We Hindus are struggling to win a district and a temple at a time, our freedom struggle is following the hindu rate of growth, too little to show after decades of agitation. But we will get justice, if not in this life, then the next, or the next to next ...

 

[cricketjoshila]

What happened to the constitutional laws and the supreme court orders that you used to respect a lot?? Where are the bhakhts now who were celebrating the Shahbano case, triple talaq verdict and woman empowerment when it comes to the right of 10-50yr old women entering the Sabarimala temple?

Should constitutional laws tell you how to pray?

Will you be ok if tommorow court rules that Islam calling itself the "Only True" religion is wrong as that makes other religions false?

Will you be ok if verses banning idol worship are banned in India as it hurts the idol worshippers?

Should a similar decision allowing men and women to pray together in a mosque be ok?

Any place of worship is a place of faith. If you dont have faith in that place do not go there.

Hindu marriage divorce and inheritance laws have been coded since long. These are not matters of religion.

Instant triple talaq have been called unislamic by many scholars and in future halala and polygamy may be banned too but this is not interfering into how you pray or who visits a mosque etc etc.

 

[PakLFC]

If Hindu's build Ram Mandir they will taunt their Muslim's over how it was done by demolishing Babri Masjid. They will keep reminding them whose boss and what awaits the Muslim's if they don't willingly give up Muslim monuments. Taj Mahal will be next on the list of demolition jobs. If they can't build Ram Temple then the Muslim's will be bashed up even more for resisting even though the final decision is with the courts they will be the ones paying the price. I see a horrifying future for Muslim's in India no matter how much they celebrate Diwali and Holi to satisfy the majority.

 

[kaayal]

This is a classic case of judicial over reach and devotees have every right to protest. Court can't decide the rule of business within a shrine unless some criminal activity is taking place. There are some women only temples and some men only temples in Hinduism, centuries old tradition which even the Islamic rulers and British stayed away from. There are valid reasons as well because of some mantras, method of worship etc not going into details.

I say the same for shrines of other religions as well, if some dargah/mosque has a dress code or method of worship need to obey it. Tomorrow court will say people should wear whatever they want in mosques/churches/temples and then activists will shout 'freedom of choice'? It is a shame that people who have no faith in certain matters want to interfere in age old customs. Do any of these activists or judges have any faith in the deity? All they want is cheap publicity, Trupti Desai did that drama in Shani temple and Haji Ali Dargah, after that how many times did she visit them? Rohinton Nariman wants to teach Hindus a lesson yet doesn't have a word to say about the plight of Parsis and the discrimination they face when they marry outside their religion. Less said about that ***** Arnab Goswami the better for my sanity. Everyone wants to reform the others against their will without gaining any understanding of the underlying situation.

Going by your logic, tomorrow if SC decides how Indian Muslims must pray in a particular mosque or how Holy Koran has to be read I take it that Muslims will accept it sportingly and not stage any demonstration?

Across Kerala untill 1940s, ladies had to be barechested while entering a temple. It was only in 1937, low castes were allowed inside temple. Can you think that old custom today? Imagine if Guruvayur kept the tradition of 1930s intact even today, asking all ladies to be barechested while inside the temple. How many of us will accept that? Wasn’t that a valid temple tradition followed for ages? So traditions need to be changed if it doesn’t have a strong historic basis or if they are descriminative against a particular section of the society.

Entry of women to the Sabarimala shrine was banned by law only as late as 1972. Reason: some male worshippers took offence. It is believed that there were visit of the Queen of Travancore in 1939, of choroonu ceremonies (first meal eating ceremony for children) where women were present. Many female worshippers had gone to the temple within the age group of 10 to 50 for the first rice-feeding ceremony of their children (Chottonu). TKA Nair, former advisor to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, recently said that his Choroonu ceremony was done at the Sabarimala temple when he was on his mother’s lap and faced the deity. This was in 1939.

Another argument of the protesters is that lord Ayyappa was a naishtika brahmachari. Ayyappa is the yogic avatar of DharmaSastha.Dharmashastha was not a brahmachari, he had 2 wives and hence the argument that Lord Ayyappa’s celibacy will be disturbed if women devotees visit the shrine is absurd in this context.

In 1991, the Kerala High Court upheld this unofficial ban on entry of women between the ages of 10 and 50, following a Public Interest Litigation. Which is now overturned by the SC order after verifying all those historic records. Twenty-five years after this High Court judgment, the Supreme Court has questioned the “logic” behind the restriction, even wondering whether there was any proof that women did not enter the sanctum sanctorum 1,500 years ago.


Tbh, I was not well informed about these traditions until now while it is being discussed extensively in the news channels etc. the State government and Police can’t go against the Supreme court order if a woman comes asking for protection to climb the temple. It’s their duty to ensure her safety. Devotees can protest without violence as much as they want. But they can’t interfere the police if a woman wants to go there.

 

[kaayal]

Kaayal, do you believe Govt should have right to interfere in the religious practices of people?

This is a court order not a Govt order. Even if we disagree with it we need to go against it by proper channels, not by fighting out with the Police.

 

[TM Riddle]

This is a court order not a Govt order. Even if we disagree with it we need to go against it by proper channels, not by fighting out with the Police.

Who is supporting the actions of rogue elements here?

 

[kaayal]

[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION] the Triple Talaq verdict was related to the instant Triple Talaq only, the ones given by whatsapp, email, SMS etc. The court didn't even comment on other types of divorce practiced by Muslims. I don't think any Islamic source talks about this instantaneous divorce initiated by the husband. SC didn't attack any fundamental aspect of Islam/faith, in Sabarimala case SC is interfering in Hinduism and disregarding faith of devotees. The deity (not God) has certain rules and regulations in the temple and it is a part of the religion, have to respect that.

When Bombay HC asked Haji Ali Dargah to allow women near the grave of the saint, it was Rahul Easwar who was most vocal against the judgement. This happened way back in 2015-16 I guess and Rahul and like minded people would come on shows and defend the right of places of worship to have their own rules. Those who are protesting now also supported the Muslim devotees 2 years back, this isn't a communal issue, it is a matter of respecting age old customs of our land. The priests of Sabarimala even promised financial and legal support to Haji Ali Trust in the SC, this happened 2 years ago when Sabarimala wasn't even in the picture.

I have fully supported the triple talaq verdict by the Supreme Court even then and now also. Same with the Shahbano case which is one of the biggest appeasement case by the Congress. I do understand certain devotees are genuinely hurt by the SC order but what the devotees did in the temple is not the right way to protest against it.

Regarding Rahul easwar, he even talked about his Plan B of spilling blood in the temple premises so that it will force the temple authorities to close down the temple for a month. He actually belongs to the tanthri family but they disowned him following his stupid antics there. And the Sabarimala woman entry case is not a new one tbh, it was always there in picture for several years. Regarding Dargha worship, it’s shirk for me. If women want to go, they should be allowed there.

 

[kaayal]

Who is supporting the actions of rogue elements here?

Many are defending these devotees against the Police. Several people are arrested across Kerala for the same. It’s being all over the news for past few days.

 

[TM Riddle]

Many are defending these devotees against the Police. Several people are arrested across Kerala for the same. It’s being all over the news for past few days.

You labelled the Hindus on this forum as Bhakts severely criticizing them for taking a stand against SC order on Sabrimala.
Who here is supporting the violent protesters?

 

[kaayal]

I suppose you won't have any issues when SC declares that men and women should pray together in a mosque and that the segregation based on gender violates art 14.

And are you honestly comparing Triple Talaq case with this issue? The former is gross violation of women rights while the later is practiced only in one Temple throughout the country and that too because of specific beliefs pertaining to the local deity.

What a disappointment really.

If SC orders something like that, i will have to challenge it in the court. That’s the rule of the land we are living in.

 

[TM Riddle]

If SC orders something like that, i will have to challenge it in the court. That’s the rule of the land we are living in.

And this is what the genuine protesters are doing, aren't they?

 

[kaayal]

You labelled the Hindus on this forum as Bhakts severely criticizing them for taking a stand against SC order on Sabrimala.
Who here is supporting the violent protesters?

I didn’t know bhakts was such an insulting term lol. I was referring to the bhakts in general who were supporting these actions of devotees in the temple. Some of them even showed the middle finger in the Sanctum sanatorium.

 

[TM Riddle]

I didn’t know bhakts was such an insulting term lol. I was referring to the bhakts in general who were supporting these actions of devotees in the temple. Some of them even showed the middle finger in the Sanctum sanatorium.

I support the protestors wholeheartedly but the opportunistics who have hijacked the movement for their petty motives deserved to be shamed.

 

[kaayal]

And this is what the genuine protesters are doing, aren't they?

This is one example of what going on there.

http://https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-assaulting-woman-pilgrim-at-sabarimala-1944128

 

[TM Riddle]

This is one example of what going on there.

http://https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-assaulting-woman-pilgrim-at-sabarimala-1944128

There are such elements in every society. They need to be locked up for good.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Too much of appeasement has resulted in this.

You'd prefer whips and chains?

Pakistanis should count their lucky stars they dont live under the rule of extremist hindus. No idols to walk past and nobody to dare abuse your religion or you because you are a Muslim.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You'd prefer whips and chains?

Pakistanis should count their lucky stars they dont live under the rule of extremist hindus. No idols to walk past and nobody to dare abuse your religion or you because you are a Muslim.

By the same token, Indians must feel a good chunk of shame that by losing Bangladesh and Pakistan, those areas have continued to cement Mughal history in South Asia where the Hindutva resurgence is is blocked by firm and resolute borders.

 

[KingKhanWC]

By the same token, Indians must feel a good chunk of shame that by losing Bangladesh and Pakistan, those areas have continued to cement Mughal history in South Asia where the Hindutva resurgence is is blocked by firm and resolute borders.

I can only suggest to re-write school history books in India. The pain of knowing some foriegners came to the land, took over, made their own culture must be a terrible thing to remember. After the Mughals history has been vanished, wonder if the British will be next or will India continue getting aid, talking English and wearing trousers to work?

 

[kabbirann]

So much vikas
BJP truly a party of "Gai hamari mata hai ,iske age hamein kuch nahin ata hain."

 

[IAJ]

Team Yogi Loses Key Minister Plus 4 Others. Akhilesh Yadav Awaits

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/up-...oins-akhilesh-yadav-s-samajwadi-party-2701428

Seems like more people will leave BJP?

 

[Giannis]

This guy is India's next Prime Minister and I think that's a good thing for Pakistan

 

[Local.Dada]

This guy is India's next Prime Minister and I think that's a good thing for Pakistan

Why do you automatically assume what might be bad for India according to you is great for Pakistan?

 

[Giannis]

Why do you automatically assume what might be bad for India according to you is great for Pakistan?

Did I say he was bad for India?

I think him and Modi are good for India. Hopefully Hindutva will rule India forever.

 

[gani999]

This guy is India's next Prime Minister and I think that's a good thing for Pakistan

Whether it's good for Pakistan or not, it's certainly good for the Pakistan Army. They will use the 'new Hindutva guy at the helm of India's affairs' to amplify Pakistan's threats out of proportion and grab an even bigger share of Pakistan's already scarce resources.

In fact, most opinion polls in India are predicting that Yogi will lose power in UP in the next state election in March 2022. So chances are that he will never be India's PM. Something for Gen. Bajwa to worry about.

 

[gazza619]

The future is in bad hands.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Why do you automatically assume what might be bad for India according to you is great for Pakistan?

They will not have to waste any bullet on someone who loves to shoot himself on his foot.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Whether it's good for Pakistan or not, it's certainly good for the Pakistan Army. They will use the 'new Hindutva guy at the helm of India's affairs' to amplify Pakistan's threats out of proportion and grab an even bigger share of Pakistan's already scarce resources.

In fact, most opinion polls in India are predicting that Yogi will lose power in UP in the next state election in March 2022. So chances are that he will never be India's PM. Something for Gen. Bajwa to worry about.

Which opinion polls?

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Whether it's good for Pakistan or not, it's certainly good for the Pakistan Army. They will use the 'new Hindutva guy at the helm of India's affairs' to amplify Pakistan's threats out of proportion and grab an even bigger share of Pakistan's already scarce resources.

In fact, most opinion polls in India are predicting that Yogi will lose power in UP in the next state election in March 2022. So chances are that he will never be India's PM. Something for Gen. Bajwa to worry about.

Is that true that he may lose power? What happened. I thought he was super popular

 

[RajBan]

Is that true that he may lose power? What happened. I thought he was super popular

His popularity is only reported by paid media. Failed miserably against most governance parameters.

 

[gani999]

Is that true that he may lose power? What happened. I thought he was super popular

Even if he does not lose power, he is going to lose a lot of seats in the assembly to the opposition. His government will be a lot less powerful than it was.

The same will hold for Modi in 2024, if he doesn't clean up his act now.

It's all about economics and not about hindutva as many people seem to think. All the record foreign investment in India apart, the country has a huge unemployment problem. It's as high as 20% in some places and the corona crisis has made things worse. The BJPs performance on the economic front has left a lot to be desired. India's overwhelmingly young (and highly unemployed) electorate won't have much patience with Modi, Yogi and co.

Sadly, the opposition does not have much to offer by way of solutions either. Any vote for the opposition is more likely to be a negative vote against the BJP than one in the right direction.

 

[MP2011]

His popularity is only reported by paid media. Failed miserably against most governance parameters.

It makes me puke to see his demonic face on full page ads on every newspaper, detailing his non existent achievements.

Any sane person who doesn't think through the prism of Hindu-Muslim can see what a miserable failure bisht is on fronts.

However his main challenger Akhilesh isn't any good too. Only saving grace is he isn't as worse as bisht is.