First report on Mohammad Asif's performances at the NCA

[kassana420]

Sreesanth was banned for steroids?Caught with drugs?When?

Caught for spot-fixing.
Are you really ticking all the boxes now?
Desperate effort but a good one, though.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Caught for spot-fixing.
Are you really ticking all the boxes now?
Desperate effort but a good one, though.

Asif is a serial offender.You know what that means?Ask a lawyer.

 

[Slog]

1.Azharuddin was acquitted by courts as there was no proof againist him.So first get your facts right.

2.Asif was convicted of felony jailed in UK.Was suspended earlier for steroids.Was caught in Dubai carrying drugs and was in jail before Pak Govt bailed him out but not before he was banned from entering UAE.I wonder which Indian cricketer has such a wonderful resume.

Lol at courts. Azhar is still banned by ICC and BCCI so dont try to give a clean chit to the fixer. No one cares if some random indian court says he's clean or not.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol at courts. Azhar is still banned by ICC and BCCI so dont try to give a clean chit to the fixer. No one cares if some random indian court says he's clean or not.

Azhar was never banned by ICC.Go look that up.His BCCI ban was overturned.He is no more banned by BCCI.

No one cares what some poster says on a random cricket forum.The words of the courts matter.Not yours or mine.

 

[Ironcat]

My post was specific to playing against Australia.

...

It all reinforces the same point. Against Australia, the first batsman selected should always be Salman Butt.

For full disclosure to the rest of the audience, this theory has already been debunked in the following thread:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ry-in-Australia-finally&p=8207923#post8207923

Here is a particular excerpt from that thread:

Here is what your prognosis of techniques based on that tour's sample size would have led to:

Salman Butt:
- Average in the Aussie 2009-10 series: 45
- Average in all tests after that series: 28
- Test career after that series: Banned

Umar Akmal:
- Average in the Aussie 2009-10 series: 33
- Average in all tests after that series: 26
- Test career after that series: Kicked out

Other serious inconsistencies to highlight:

- Jumping from 'playing against Australia' to 'playing outside Asia' back and forth.

- Quoting Salman Butt's 'brilliance on seaming tracks' through isolated scores, yet completely hiding his full record on those same seaming tracks for the four subsequent tests in which he scored a total of 120 runs in 8 innings at an average of 15.

- Quoting 'Misbah's drop' for a single test 6 years ago, yet completely ignoring Umar Akmal's sidelining for the whole stretch of the last 3 years

- Quoting Salman Butt's 2009/10 record against Australia both in and outside of Australia, yet completely ignoring Misbah's 2014 dominance over pretty much the same Aussie bowling attack in the UAE that Pakistan will actually face next year

- Hiding Umar Akmal's failures against Australia in Hobart and then again in England, where in these three tests, he scored a grand total of 79 runs in 6 innings at an average of 13.

- Branding the non-Aussie South African tour as 'similar conditions', yet hiding away Salman Butt's and Umar Akmal's performances against England on the same pitches.

- Forming a sweeping conclusion about Misbah using a two-test sample 6 years ago, yet hiding away 3+ test failures of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal in parallel

While the post that the OP quoted had no mention of Misbah in it, the reply seems to be a simple rehash of the Salman Butt + Umar Akmal vs Misbah argument. The thread title has nothing to do about this comparison either. It simply highlights an attempt at the rehash without having to attract proper rebuttals from those with the knowledge of what actually transpired. Buyer beware.

 

[kassana420]

Asif is a serial offender.You know what that means?Ask a lawyer.

I don't need to.
He has done his time and will be back soon.
That's the norm of the society.
Can't keep judging a person from his past.

 

[Slog]

Azhar was never banned by ICC.Go look that up.His BCCI ban was overturned.He is no more banned by BCCI.

No one cares what some poster says on a random cricket forum.The words of the courts matter.Not yours or mine.

No

This is BCCI's stance:

"The High Court verdict was based on a technicality. Nowhere did the court say he is not guilty of indulging in fixing," the board official said. "Since the proceedings to challenge the verdict have been initiated, as far as the BCCI is concerned, any association that wants to appoint him in any capacity cannot do so without the board's consent."

 

[cricketjoshila]

No

This is BCCI's stance:

"The High Court verdict was based on a technicality. Nowhere did the court say he is not guilty of indulging in fixing," the board official said. "Since the proceedings to challenge the verdict have been initiated, as far as the BCCI is concerned, any association that wants to appoint him in any capacity cannot do so without the board's consent."

His ban is lifted as by the courts and BCCI cannot ban him from doing anything including entering cricket stadiums.Azhar has been going around visiting different stadiums watching matches.He even met players in delhi recently and when BCCI asked the players why they met him the players and their association simply cited the high court judgement and Mr.Clean Manohar had to shut up.Azhar was felicitated by BCCI earlier after the BCCI got whipped in the courts and they realiased they are losing and mollified Azhar so that he doesnt claim compensation.

 

[Junaids]

For full disclosure to the rest of the audience, this theory has already been debunked in the following thread:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ry-in-Australia-finally&p=8207923#post8207923

Here is a particular excerpt from that thread:



Other serious inconsistencies to highlight:

- Jumping from 'playing against Australia' to 'playing outside Asia' back and forth.

- Quoting Salman Butt's 'brilliance on seaming tracks' through isolated scores, yet completely hiding his full record on those same seaming tracks for the four subsequent tests in which he scored a total of 120 runs in 8 innings at an average of 15.

- Quoting 'Misbah's drop' for a single test 6 years ago, yet completely ignoring Umar Akmal's sidelining for the whole stretch of the last 3 years

- Quoting Salman Butt's 2009/10 record against Australia both in and outside of Australia, yet completely ignoring Misbah's 2014 dominance over pretty much the same Aussie bowling attack in the UAE that Pakistan will actually face next year

- Hiding Umar Akmal's failures against Australia in Hobart and then again in England, where in these three tests, he scored a grand total of 79 runs in 6 innings at an average of 13.

- Branding the non-Aussie South African tour as 'similar conditions', yet hiding away Salman Butt's and Umar Akmal's performances against England on the same pitches.

- Forming a sweeping conclusion about Misbah using a two-test sample 6 years ago, yet hiding away 3+ test failures of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal in parallel

While the post that the OP quoted had no mention of Misbah in it, the reply seems to be a simple rehash of the Salman Butt + Umar Akmal vs Misbah argument. The thread title has nothing to do about this comparison either. It simply highlights an attempt at the rehash without having to attract proper rebuttals from those with the knowledge of what actually transpired. Buyer beware.

I'm sorry, but your points are without merit.

It does not matter how Misbah played against Australia in the UAE. The pitches are completely different and the technique that is required is completely different.

I listed every Test innings that Salman Butt played against Australia in Australia (6 Tests) and England (2 Tests). It is totally irrelevant how he performed against other attacks in other conditions. Australia will not have a Graeme Swann but they will have Starc where they had Johnson and Lyon where they had Hauritz and Warne and they will have Hazelwood where they had McGrath.

It is fine that you despise Salman Butt - every cricket lover (including me) does.

But you are letting your dislike for him cloud your judgment, because the bottom line is that across 6 Tests in Australia and 2 in England AGAINST AUSTRALIA he has proved that he has the best technique of any active Pakistani batsman for those types of bowlers in those types of conditions.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Asif is more talented among the fixers, his selection should have been pushed. If he comes back, today's generation batters would have found very difficult facing his swinging balls

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

cricket commentators watching the match live and slow mo must be knowing nothing.The ball came with the angle nothing like dual swing as the poster said not is it defying laws of physics.

This is dual swing and magical bowling.

This is reverse swing. This is not parallel to discussions regarding Asif.

Asif was a rare bowler who could swing and seam the cricket bowler at the same time or do one thing at a time.

All coaches work on bowlers release from the hand to be so that seam is upright as they say only an upright seam will seam or swing. We have seen with Junaid Khan and Umar Gul that when they were at their peaks they had an upright seam position while when they got mediocre they were bowling with a not upright seam and had gone gun-barrel straight and innocuous bowlers.

Whereas with Asif he always had wobbling seam position with which he would swing the ball or seam the bowl or swing and seam the bowl simultaneously which the posters are referring as dual swing.

Even when the best of batsman like lara and Tendulkar were asked how to play good pacers and what they used to do against them ? They said that they would see the seam position from the bowler's hand to predict the swing or they would see the wrist position of the bowler to analyse which bowl he is bowling.

While with Asif with the wobbly seam you cannot tell what it's going to do . Because unlike other bowlers it won't remain straight rather if the seam pitches with the seam pointing to wars slips it would seam away while if it pitches with seam pointing towards leg slips it would seam or jag back to right handers.

While you are bowling at 78 to 85 mph the batsman don't have time to sight the seam position when the ball makes contact with the pitch to know which way the wobbling seam will cause the ball to move. This is a precise reason that Asif got wickets of the top batsman of that generation and troubled all of them and shattered there defence to get lots of bowled dismissals against them. His average or strike rate weren't as threatening due to the great fielders pakistan had with people like imran farhat dropping even 4 catches per match and inept keepers.

There is no bowler in world cricket who are and or had comparable skills with Asif with what he does with a cricket ball.

 

[Zaz]

Majeed confessed to fixing the Sydney Test.

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/j...boasts-alleged-matchfixer-20100829-13xlj.html

I'm sorry, but your points are without merit.

It does not matter how Misbah played against Australia in the UAE. The pitches are completely different and the technique that is required is completely different.

I listed every Test innings that Salman Butt played against Australia in Australia (6 Tests) and England (2 Tests). It is totally irrelevant how he performed against other attacks in other conditions. Australia will not have a Graeme Swann but they will have Starc where they had Johnson and Lyon where they had Hauritz and Warne and they will have Hazelwood where they had McGrath.

It is fine that you despise Salman Butt - every cricket lover (including me) does.

But you are letting your dislike for him cloud your judgment, because the bottom line is that across 6 Tests in Australia and 2 in England AGAINST AUSTRALIA he has proved that he has the best technique of any active Pakistani batsman for those types of bowlers in those types of conditions.

Butt might have got a few runs against them years back but your being totally blind to the fact that butt as a batsman has not lifted a bat competitively for 5 years

Getting back into a high batting standard 5 years out is not as easy as someone doing the same for bowling Theres so much more that goes into batting and so much that can go wrong like rhythm, balance, timing, hand eye co ordination, technique, feet movement etc etc

I doubt butt will even be first class standard if and when he gets back forget taking on australia in australia and making big runs

 

[Ironcat]

I'm sorry, but your points are without merit.

It does not matter how Misbah played against Australia in the UAE. The pitches are completely different and the technique that is required is completely different.

I listed every Test innings that Salman Butt played against Australia in Australia (6 Tests) and England (2 Tests). It is totally irrelevant how he performed against other attacks in other conditions. Australia will not have a Graeme Swann but they will have Starc where they had Johnson and Lyon where they had Hauritz and Warne and they will have Hazelwood where they had McGrath.

It is fine that you despise Salman Butt - every cricket lover (including me) does.

But you are letting your dislike for him cloud your judgment, because the bottom line is that across 6 Tests in Australia and 2 in England AGAINST AUSTRALIA he has proved that he has the best technique of any active Pakistani batsman for those types of bowlers in those types of conditions.

I responded to the post you wrote - not the goal post shift that just happened. Let me reiterate in response to post #66:

- Quoting Salman Butt's 'brilliance on seaming tracks' through isolated scores, yet completely hiding his full record on those same seaming tracks for the four subsequent tests in which he scored a total of 120 runs in 8 innings at an average of 15.

- Quoting 'Misbah's drop' for a single test 6 years ago, yet completely ignoring Umar Akmal's sidelining for the whole stretch of the last 3 years

- Quoting Salman Butt's 2009/10 record against Australia both in and outside of Australia, yet completely ignoring Misbah's 2014 dominance over pretty much the same Aussie bowling attack in the UAE that Pakistan will actually face next year

- Hiding Umar Akmal's failures against Australia in Hobart and then again in England, where in these three tests, he scored a grand total of 79 runs in 6 innings at an average of 13.

- Branding the non-Aussie South African tour as 'similar conditions', yet hiding away Salman Butt's and Umar Akmal's performances against England on the same pitches.

- Forming a sweeping conclusion about Misbah using a two-test sample 6 years ago, yet hiding away 3+ test failures of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal in parallel

Now read your post that I quoted previously (#66) and do tell me where I got any of the above wrong. My points may seem out of merit because they challenge yours. (That's entirely fine by me.)

In the other thread, I asked you to point out for us a sequence of Misbah's dismissals against the type of bowling that is only possible on Aussie pitches. I am yet to see your evidence. What completely breaks your argument is, not only you form a sweeping conclusion using a mere two-test sample 6 years ago, there is only one dismissal in the possible 4 innings from the sample that could possibly be attributed to, say, a short ball.

If a cricket player was a computer chip, yes, you could read its specs from 6 years ago and sleep with confidence that it would run today exactly as the specs. Problem is, Salman Butt and Umar Akmal regressed after the 2009/10 series, while Misbah progressed.

Oh, BTW, if my personal like/dislike of Salman Butt was all that mattered to me, I would find no need to quote you the numbers that I did.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is reverse swing. This is not parallel to discussions regarding Asif.

Asif was a rare bowler who could swing and seam the cricket bowler at the same time or do one thing at a time.

All coaches work on bowlers release from the hand to be so that seam is upright as they say only an upright seam will seam or swing. We have seen with Junaid Khan and Umar Gul that when they were at their peaks they had an upright seam position while when they got mediocre they were bowling with a not upright seam and had gone gun-barrel straight and innocuous bowlers.

Whereas with Asif he always had wobbling seam position with which he would swing the ball or seam the bowl or swing and seam the bowl simultaneously which the posters are referring as dual swing.

Even when the best of batsman like lara and Tendulkar were asked how to play good pacers and what they used to do against them ? They said that they would see the seam position from the bowler's hand to predict the swing or they would see the wrist position of the bowler to analyse which bowl he is bowling.

While with Asif with the wobbly seam you cannot tell what it's going to do . Because unlike other bowlers it won't remain straight rather if the seam pitches with the seam pointing to wars slips it would seam away while if it pitches with seam pointing towards leg slips it would seam or jag back to right handers.

While you are bowling at 78 to 85 mph the batsman don't have time to sight the seam position when the ball makes contact with the pitch to know which way the wobbling seam will cause the ball to move. This is a precise reason that Asif got wickets of the top batsman of that generation and troubled all of them and shattered there defence to get lots of bowled dismissals against them. His average or strike rate weren't as threatening due to the great fielders pakistan had with people like imran farhat dropping even 4 catches per match and inept keepers.

There is no bowler in world cricket who are and or had comparable skills with Asif with what he does with a cricket ball.

The world has never seen anyone like Asif yet he avgd 40 plus at home and 35 plus in Australia where there is not much help off the wicket.Even in England he avgs 28 or 29.

Most his successes came on seaming tracks or SA and NZ.And the fifer in Sri Lanka on a seaming pitch.

Asif was a good seam bowler who did well in seaming conditions.He was a good bowler nothing.

And when in doubt blame Pakistani fielders.

 

[in_cutter]

The world has never seen anyone like Asif yet he avgd 40 plus at home and 35 plus in Australia where there is not much help off the wicket.Even in England he avgs 28 or 29.

Most his successes came on seaming tracks or SA and NZ.And the fifer in Sri Lanka on a seaming pitch.

Asif was a good seam bowler who did well in seaming conditions.He was a good bowler nothing.

And when in doubt blame Pakistani fielders.

How about when he owned India? Was it a seaming track? Just curious.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=65416]Ironcat[/MENTION],
I actually enjoy the debates with you.

I don't think that Misbah will continue as far as Australia, but his innings against England in the UAE were deeply troubling in terms of playing outside Asia next year.

He was basically unable to score against Broad and Anderson and cashed in against the spinners.

But the glimpses of him against the second new ball showed that when there is bounce he cannot survive. He lasted 3 overs at Sharjah in the first innings before Anderson got him and 5 overs in the second innings before Broad got him.

At Dubai he lasted 10 overs before Broad got him in the first innings and Anderson got him before the 2nd new ball in the second innings.

At Abu Dhabi, Anderson got him for 3 in the first innings, and the second innings was the only one all tour in which a quick didn't dismiss him.

Overall, it looks ominous for him outside Asia next year.

 

[pillionrider]

Mohammad Asif - basically Jimmy Anderson's guru.

 

[princeuk]

If he is on form and fit then he deserves a chance, it would be ironic to see aamir and asif back in England again.

 

[Ironcat]

[MENTION=65416]Ironcat[/MENTION],
I actually enjoy the debates with you.

I don't think that Misbah will continue as far as Australia, but his innings against England in the UAE were deeply troubling in terms of playing outside Asia next year.

He was basically unable to score against Broad and Anderson and cashed in against the spinners.

But the glimpses of him against the second new ball showed that when there is bounce he cannot survive. He lasted 3 overs at Sharjah in the first innings before Anderson got him and 5 overs in the second innings before Broad got him.

At Dubai he lasted 10 overs before Broad got him in the first innings and Anderson got him before the 2nd new ball in the second innings.

At Abu Dhabi, Anderson got him for 3 in the first innings, and the second innings was the only one all tour in which a quick didn't dismiss him.

Overall, it looks ominous for him outside Asia next year.

Misbah does what any smart batsman - and a captain (and a leader) - should do. Respect the strength of your opposition, but go hard after the weak links. Sure, you want to pump your chest for having scored 4 rpo against Anderson and Styen. But, what does that do? It creates more chances for a dismissal against the bowler who is most likely to dismiss. Pakistan have won tests so consistently in the last couple of years due to this wartime strategy. To a casual observer, it may seem anticlimactic - but to the tacticians, brilliant.

None of the UAE dismissals you quoted had anything to do with short-pitched/Aussie-style bowling. Unless you want to change the goal-post again - only this time, to second-new-ball pace bowling. Butt was consistently an LBW candidate on that Aussie tour; in fact, became Ryan Harris' bunny in the ODIs. So, everyone has their weak points, but if they can fend them off for a dogged 100 or a 50, the team wins. In tests, you need not play the balls you are not comfortable playing.

I do agree that Misbah will likely retire after next summer. He will probably be reprised in a leadership role with the PCB after his retirement.

 

[IAJ]

Its our third rate bowlers who let Pakistan score that many runs.The real nature of the pitch was seen in the 1st and 2nd day.You can keep trying to justify the so called SKILLS of convicted felon wont make him a great bowler.

Lols,a jealous a indian won't change anything. Ask players who have faced him or former players about Asif. Maybe you should look for what KP said about Asif?

 

[BDwarriors]

from where you got the report? any video?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lols,a jealous a indian won't change anything. Ask players who have faced him or former players about Asif. Maybe you should look for what KP said about Asif?

Jealous at what?Asif's incredible CV of serial offences?

Pakistanis bigging up a good seam bowler into an ATG/Rare breed etc etc wont make him one.

 

[Pete Rose]

107 entries later, it seems no one is able to give a status update on how asif's stint at NCA is progressing.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

The world has never seen anyone like Asif yet he avgd 40 plus at home and 35 plus in Australia where there is not much help off the wicket.Even in England he avgs 28 or 29.

Most his successes came on seaming tracks or SA and NZ.And the fifer in Sri Lanka on a seaming pitch.

Asif was a good seam bowler who did well in seaming conditions.He was a good bowler nothing.

And when in doubt blame Pakistani fielders.

ok

 

[asyed]

Jealous at what?Asif's incredible CV of serial offences?

Pakistanis bigging up a good seam bowler into an ATG/Rare breed etc etc wont make him one.

Okay fine, he's not good for you then why even bother posting your comments here again and again. Don't tell me that you have to do it because people here are quoting you. They will do it if you keep on twisting and turning the argument.

We all get it that you're a sore Indian who never give credit when it's due, specially when something belong to Pakistan.

 

[asyed]

107 entries later, it seems no one is able to give a status update on how asif's stint at NCA is progressing.

Here is all I can find.

http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2015-daily/05-12-2015/u68492.htm

 

[Pete Rose]

Here is all I can find.

http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2015-daily/05-12-2015/u68492.htm

thanks

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Unbeliveable how some posters are supporting Asif. He should consider himself lucky that he plays for Pakistan. Any other country would have banned him for life for all the offences he commited. But since PCB does not care much about fixing, he will be (might be?) back. Happy days for Pakistani fans who like PCB does not think fixing is a major issue if you are talented. But a sincere request, please do not force other cricket to say how good a bowler Asif is, how talented he was etc. etc. For most neutrals, Mohammed Asif will go down in history as a fixer who has been jailed in UK for tarnishing the game of cricket. It is irrespective what he does in cricket field from here onwards. But yes a suspicion will always remain whenever he plays. I as a spectator will not be sure if its genuine or what I am seeing is scripted whenever Asif plays.

 

[Markhor]

Asif should've kept his nose clean after the drugs scandals. To then get caught up in spot-fixing shows how no matter how skilful or much of a genius of a bowler he was on the field, he is a complete disaster of a human being off it and cannot be trusted ever again to wear the Pakistan shirt.

What made it more painful was that to quote Amir himself "You can find bowlers like me everywhere in Pakistan, but Asif you will never find again." To throw away all that talent for drugs and Mazhar Majeed is sickening.

Rehabilitate Amir by all means, but Asif's had his chances so let's get over him.

 

[waleed88]

According to an article on another website today, Mohammad Asif has been busy "making fools of the best batsmen in the country" in the nets at the NCA in Lahore.



Do we have any other reports on how he is performing?



I was wondering why the PCB had initially set a date of late February for Asif and Butt to have clearance to play, only for them to now advance it to next month.



Is this why?



I have to admit that I have considered that - even at the same age as Jimmy Anderson - I thought that Asif was unlikely to regain his former performance levels. Not too many 33 year old pacemen make waves.



But if - and it is a very big if - Asif is back to somewhere near his former level, suddenly a year on the road to England, New Zealand and Australia is transformed from a potential disaster to a potential triumph.



A Test bowling attack outside Asia of:



8. Mohammad Amir

9. Yasir Shah

10. Wahab Riaz

11. Mohammad Asif





.......would be clearly the best in the world, by a massive margin.

Best in the world? [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] bhai too much optimism

 

[waleed88]

Asif is a genius - some of his movements actually defies the laws of physics. I think, he is born with some abnormalities in his wrist, otherwise his away cutters (ball that drifts away from right-handers & cut back sharply off the seam) are impossible to master. I have seen PAK bowlers doing fancy things with old ball, like Imran could swing inwards & then swing away after pitching (right-handers) or Wasim & Waquar could reverse it both ways in air, but a mixture of swing & cut is unique. I have seen the ball of VVS & Ponting (?) at Cape Town (?) several times in slow mo, but no clues yet. I think, Asif is one of those bowlers who could be lethal even at 35 & at 125km speed, particularly in England. At his prime, for few series he was more skillful than Jimmy & more accurate than Styen. In 2010, in 12 Tests in NZ, AUS & ENG, I think he took ~60 wickets, against top 3 of 4 sides in World at their home, and PAK fielders dropped another 20 sitters.....

If AA pair can reach to their level of 2010, backed by Wahab, Yasir, Rahat; PAK 'll be a formidable Test side in UK & down under, as long as the catches are taken. That'll easily be the best Test attack in contemporary world, by some distance.

To be honest he was pretty mediocre in the England series vs England once their batsmen started playing him outside the crease and took the lbw out of the equation. Johnathan Trott played him to perfection. His caught behind usually fell short of slip because of his pace which rarely went over 81mph

 

[waleed88]

This is a seriously terrible line up and if be highly surprised if they cross 250 more than twice in six innings.



Ahmed Shehzad is a seriously limited batsman and his ability comes down to borderline tailender level when he is playing in pitches with bounce and some pace and if there is a quality bowler coming at him.



Salman Butt averages in the low 30s and this was when he was peak. Do you seriously expect him to be performing after 5 years considering, a) it's harder for batsmen to get back in the groove, b) he wasn't really that good to begin with.



Azhar Ali can grind out some innings and I would expect him to have a couple of good innings and maybe a century but all said and done he is a good batsman but not a great one and can hardly dominate when the guys around him are duds. Just being hardworking and a trier doesn't make you a great batsman in tough conditions



Babar Azam has the requisite skill set it seems but he is struggling to hack it and find some sort of consistency in ODIS in UAE let alone Tests in Australia. Be ready for him to have a Azhar Ali type tour Of England 2010, where he can get some starts and show some baseline skill but not really amount to a whole lot.



Umar Akmal. LOL. It's hard to give a serious reply. You are saying as if he was smashing tons in Aus in 2009/10. No he wasn't. He got some starts and that was that. More importantly that was an Umar Akmal in great form. The Akmal of today is infinitely inferior to him so it's laughable to expect him to score runs.



Asad Shafiq is a great option at number 6 and has done well in UAE, SL and SA. Basically shown ability in tests where he's played but at the end of the day he is not someone who will dominate line ups and does his best when he feeds off others to take the Pakistan score to the next level. He will most likely not get such situations in Aus. Especially his utility comes down a lot when his partners are duds and there is no one to support him. You may expect him to have some decent contributions with the tail but it's not of much use when it gets you from a potent ion 180-200 all out to 230 all out because both are terrible scores



So this potential line up you mentioned is absolutely laughable and ridiculous and it's hard to fathom why you think they have any chance in Aus

Not to mention our tail which will have Asif Yasir and Wahab. Hardly hold the bat properly. Sarfaraz might be a walking wicket in those conditions too.

 

[BigBoy123]

No place of asif in our team..after all how long can a 33 old fast bowler play...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

You have to remember that in 2009-10 Pakistan was playing without its best batsman (Younis Khan was excluded by special instructions from the Chairman of the PCB) and with several key players fixing.

younis rested himself, you are horribly mistaken. Yousuf asked him back many times, but that fell on deaf years. When Inti however made subtle threats against younis's spot for the 2011 WC, he came running back for the odis

 

[gazza619]

Amir and Asif aren't going to win Pakistan a series in Aus, they couldn't do it before and they won't do it now after 5 years away from cricket.

Agreed. If anyone can win us series it will be Yasir Shah (provided our batsmen can score half decent runs)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MMHS]

To be honest he was pretty mediocre in the England series vs England once their batsmen started playing him outside the crease and took the lbw out of the equation. Johnathan Trott played him to perfection. His caught behind usually fell short of slip because of his pace which rarely went over 81mph

At the later part of 2010 English summer, he was struggling with the burden of bowling 60 overs/Test in a 6 Test summer within very short span. He missed most part of 2006 Summer, but in the Oval Test, bowled magnificently in 1st innings. I think, sometimes in 2006-07 PAK tour of SAF, he troubled Kallis most than anyone probably ever & Jaques is probably the best player of moving ball in last few decades.

Asif's career has 2 parts - he was absolute mediocre that you can get in his debut at SCG (probably went for 0/125 or so, which actual has dented his overall stats in AUS), but Woolmer got something fixed & he made a comeback totally different bowler against ENG in a side game 2 years later - took 10 wickets. For few years between 2006 to 2010, he was almost unplayable with the new ball.

A shady character with every bit of dirt in it - drugs, dopes, girls, cheating, in-fight ...... what not; but that doesn't take out his bowling skills. Taking out his 1st 2/3 Tests, his career average is probably around 20 with a SR of ~48 & most of the matches are against good opponents. His biggest asset was his cunningness - a very unlike Pakistani pacer. PAK pacers are renowned for their pace, attacking instincts, swing & craft; but Asif was someone who would work out batsmen & he is easily the best user of the new ball in recent past from Pakistan. Could have been a good Test Captain as well.

 

[tahir_dj]

At the later part of 2010 English summer, he was struggling with the burden of bowling 60 overs/Test in a 6 Test summer within very short span. He missed most part of 2006 Summer, but in the Oval Test, bowled magnificently in 1st innings. I think, sometimes in 2006-07 PAK tour of SAF, he troubled Kallis most than anyone probably ever & Jaques is probably the best player of moving ball in last few decades.

Asif's career has 2 parts - he was absolute mediocre that you can get in his debut at SCG (probably went for 0/125 or so, which actual has dented his overall stats in AUS), but Woolmer got something fixed & he made a comeback totally different bowler against ENG in a side game 2 years later - took 10 wickets. For few years between 2006 to 2010, he was almost unplayable with the new ball.

A shady character with every bit of dirt in it - drugs, dopes, girls, cheating, in-fight ...... what not; but that doesn't take out his bowling skills. Taking out his 1st 2/3 Tests, his career average is probably around 20 with a SR of ~48 & most of the matches are against good opponents. His biggest asset was his cunningness - a very unlike Pakistani pacer. PAK pacers are renowned for their pace, attacking instincts, swing & craft; but Asif was someone who would work out batsmen & he is easily the best user of the new ball in recent past from Pakistan. Could have been a good Test Captain as well.

And who can forget 2006 your of SL where he single handily won Pakistan the matches took 17 wickets in 2 test

 

[BDwarriors]

No place of asif in our team..after all how long can a 33 old fast bowler play...

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you have no idea about bowling. 100 time it has been explained in PP about asifs bowling.

 

[Slog]

Asif should've kept his nose clean after the drugs scandals. To then get caught up in spot-fixing shows how no matter how skilful or much of a genius of a bowler he was on the field, he is a complete disaster of a human being off it and cannot be trusted ever again to wear the Pakistan shirt.

What made it more painful was that to quote Amir himself "You can find bowlers like me everywhere in Pakistan, but Asif you will never find again." To throw away all that talent for drugs and Mazhar Majeed is sickening.

Rehabilitate Amir by all means, but Asif's had his chances so let's get over him.

Lol when did Amir say this

 

[Haroon786]

The world has never seen anyone like Asif yet he avgd 40 plus at home and 35 plus in Australia where there is not much help off the wicket.Even in England he avgs 28 or 29.

Most his successes came on seaming tracks or SA and NZ.And the fifer in Sri Lanka on a seaming pitch.

Asif was a good seam bowler who did well in seaming conditions.He was a good bowler nothing.

And when in doubt blame Pakistani fielders.

Still better than any bowler ever from India.

 

[Asadullah]

Anytime pal.

It doesn't answer OP one bit. Here's the question from OP:

Do we have any other reports on how he is performing?

 

[Haroon786]

It doesn't answer OP one bit. Here's the question from OP:

The correct answer is to wait for his performance in the domestic matches - premature thread that should be locked until Asif has played a couple of matches.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Still better than any bowler ever from India.

Thats your own opinion.Like many on PP.

 

[pacesensation]

This is reverse swing. This is not parallel to discussions regarding Asif.

Asif was a rare bowler who could swing and seam the cricket bowler at the same time or do one thing at a time.

All coaches work on bowlers release from the hand to be so that seam is upright as they say only an upright seam will seam or swing. We have seen with Junaid Khan and Umar Gul that when they were at their peaks they had an upright seam position while when they got mediocre they were bowling with a not upright seam and had gone gun-barrel straight and innocuous bowlers.

Whereas with Asif he always had wobbling seam position with which he would swing the ball or seam the bowl or swing and seam the bowl simultaneously which the posters are referring as dual swing.

Even when the best of batsman like lara and Tendulkar were asked how to play good pacers and what they used to do against them ? They said that they would see the seam position from the bowler's hand to predict the swing or they would see the wrist position of the bowler to analyse which bowl he is bowling.

While with Asif with the wobbly seam you cannot tell what it's going to do . Because unlike other bowlers it won't remain straight rather if the seam pitches with the seam pointing to wars slips it would seam away while if it pitches with seam pointing towards leg slips it would seam or jag back to right handers.

While you are bowling at 78 to 85 mph the batsman don't have time to sight the seam position when the ball makes contact with the pitch to know which way the wobbling seam will cause the ball to move. This is a precise reason that Asif got wickets of the top batsman of that generation and troubled all of them and shattered there defence to get lots of bowled dismissals against them. His average or strike rate weren't as threatening due to the great fielders pakistan had with people like imran farhat dropping even 4 catches per match and inept keepers.

There is no bowler in world cricket who are and or had comparable skills with Asif with what he does with a cricket ball.

you are discussing fast bowling with an indian bro, keep that in mind when you argue with them

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] I agree with much of what you say but you still haven't answered the question which has been asked repeatedly? How do you expect Butt and Asif to perform at the same level they were performing at 5 years ago? that too in time for the tour of England you reckon they will be ready? both are extremely rusty and the transition from playing cricket at the FC level to the international level will be very tough. It is also worth noting that unlike Aamir they have been unable to train and play cricket to prepare them for a smooth return once their bans expired. Butt and Asif are also older then Aamir so are no spring chickens.

 

[waleed88]

you are discussing fast bowling with an indian bro, keep that in mind when you argue with them

Hehe Indians suffers from an inferiority complex in Fast bowling, every new left arm bowler is compared to Wasim Akram. The list goes on.. You know their problems. Don't rub it into them

 

[Haroon786]

Thats your own opinion.Like many on PP.

It's an actual fact too.

 

[goran]

Asif was one of the best the world has ever seen. Since he doesn't rely much on pace, so should have few more years of his best still left. Asif and Amir bowling together will be a treat to watch. It will definitely be a challenge for most of the current top batsmen to survive, let alone scoring off them. Ask Pietersen if you don't believe.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's an actual fact too.

May be on PP.

 

[BDwarriors]

May be on PP.

the sun rises from east in whole world, not in PP only.

 

[Haroon786]

May be on PP.

Well PP > all other cricket forums combined, so I'd take your word for it.

But also both statistically and qualitatively, Asif is better than any Indian bowler ever.

 

[Markhor]

Lol when did Amir say this

http://m.thenational.ae/thenational...tsider-mohammad-asif-will-be-felt-by-pakistan

And we are also left with the plangent words of Amir himself, a day after the Doha tribunal banned the three for a minimum of five years each. "You'll find bowlers like me around Pakistan," he said, assessing the sense of loss, "but you won't find one like Asif."

 

[coy0607]

Well PP > all other cricket forums combined, so I'd take your word for it.

But also both statistically and qualitatively, Asif is better than any Indian bowler ever.

^now that's a fact!
Asif- destroyer of batting line-ups across the world

 

[Sachin136]

Well PP > all other cricket forums combined, so I'd take your word for it.

But also both statistically and qualitatively, Asif is better than any Indian bowler ever.

I am afraid you are wrong. Statistically Ravindra Jadeja is a better bowler than Asif (if we count the on-going SA test in his records too).

 

[yadunoe]

Say Sydney was fixed, Pakistan still lose 2-1.

If Amir and Asif couldn't get the job done then, what makes you think they can do it now after being away from cricket for 5 years and with a pretty weak batting unit to boot?

You're seriously underselling how difficult it is to win a series in Aus.

with our current test batting if asif amir come back and we have one test on a spinning friendly wicket then we can win the series no doubt odi and t20 they will kill us

 

[Abid Z]

Lol he bowled at his quickest on that tour with 152.5 being his fastest


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He definitely didn't have the inswinger. But I wasn't aware he bowled 152.

 

[Pak Warrior]

I am afraid you are wrong. Statistically Ravindra Jadeja is a better bowler than Asif (if we count the on-going SA test in his records too).

Asif has more talent and skill in his little finger than Jadeja has in his whole body

 

[Pak Warrior]

with our current test batting if asif amir come back and we have one test on a spinning friendly wicket then we can win the series no doubt odi and t20 they will kill us

It's fine, test victory in Australia means soooo much more than a odi or t20 victory

 

[cricketjoshila]

Asif has more talent and skill in his little finger than Jadeja has in his whole body

I am glad Jadeja doesnt have those "Talents".

 

[Pak Warrior]

I am glad Jadeja doesnt have those "Talents".

You have the talent of talking in circles

 

[Haroon786]

I am afraid you are wrong. Statistically Ravindra Jadeja is a better bowler than Asif (if we count the on-going SA test in his records too).

Mere decimal points don't matter.

 

[Sachin136]

Mere decimal points don't matter.

Okay, we can consider them equals (then we should also consider Ashwin equal to them). There was another Indian off-spinner, Jasubhai Patel, who is much better than Asif statistically.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Asif destroyed Australia twice. Destroyed. Ripped them to shreds. Sydney. All I remember is Indian pace bowlers getting mauled till their pants dropped whenever they have toured down under. Asif was the reason a Sydney win was a possibility. Single-handedly. Seaming track yeah?

Asif avgs 35 in tests in Australia.Pakistan hasnt even drawn a test match in Australia for 20 odd years.Take these boastings somewhere else.

Destroyed Australia once again in Headingley that same year. You know the scoreline? All out in the 80s. Absolutely unplayable. Watch every ball of his every spell in that one innings. Don't talk about statistics when you know jack and have seen jack.

Headingley is known as one of the most helpful tracks for seamers in England.Now wonder he did well.I dont need certification on my knowledge from you.And i have seen more cricket then you can imagine.

Asif was a once in a generation bowler. He mentally derailed KP in that 4th Test at The Oval. Watch that spell and you will realise what seam bowling is about.

Only on PP is he considered a once a generation bowler.

Not sure if he is the same as before. But he is THE biggest loss for Pakistan cricket in their entire cricket history. The ability to literally dismantle batting line-ups and win sessions on his own. That is the sign of an ATG. Pakistan won TWO tests in England. Against Australia and England. With a batting line-up that has been known to do absolutely nothing in those countries.

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LOL.ATG.LOL.

 

[Haroon786]

Okay, we can consider them equals (then we should also consider Ashwin equal to them). There was another Indian off-spinner, Jasubhai Patel, who is much better than Asif statistically.

As expected, who are you going to bring up next ? someone with 2 Test caps and an average of 15 ?

 

[Sachin136]

As expected, who are you going to bring up next ? someone with 2 Test caps and an average of 15 ?

If for you Asif's 106 wickets are enough sample size to say that he is better than Kapil Dev (with a sample size of 434 wickets), then Jasubhai Patel's 29 wickets are enough sample size for me to say that he is better statistically then Asif. In fact 29/106 > 106/434.

Actually, quality wise Jasu Patel wasn't that bad either. At 35 he led India to their first win against Australia, led by Benaud.

 

[ali2220]

Why are people arguing with Indian posters here? even Aussies praises the skills of M Asif, there is no point undermining the talent of Asif the bowler.We shouldn't bother about some blind men who can't see the talent of Asif.

 

[Haroon786]

If for you Asif's 106 wickets are enough sample size to say that he is better than Kapil Dev (with a sample size of 434 wickets), then Jasubhai Patel's 29 wickets are enough sample size for me to say that he is better statistically then Asif. In fact 29/106 > 106/434.

Actually, quality wise Jasu Patel wasn't that bad either. At 35 he led India to their first win against Australia, led by Benaud.

A sample size of over 100 wickets is more than enough to judge whether or not Asif was a better bowler than Dev, a level above in skill and performance.

 

[Sachin136]

A sample size of over 100 wickets is more than enough to judge whether or not Asif was a better bowler than Dev, a level above in skill and performance.

Kapil averaged 26 for his first 103 wickets. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Since you haven't seen Kapil, if he had retired right at that time, would you be thinking right now that there isn't much to separate Kapil and Asif statistically? Everyone knows that Kapil dragged his career too long which dented his statistics, and Asif never reached that phase. Leaving that aside, cricket is not a sport where performances are linear over the years. So 100 wickets is hardly enough sample size.

Let's not talk about skills since neither you or me have seen Kapil (or read very extensively about him).

 

[ali2220]

I think we need to compare Asif bowling (when he makes a comeback) with Aamers and Wahab's bowling.I would prefer Asif being out of the team than coming back into the team and being compared with Indian pacers.

 

[Haroon786]

Kapil averaged 26 for his first 103 wickets. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Since you haven't seen Kapil, if he had retired right at that time, would you be thinking right now that there isn't much to separate Kapil and Asif statistically? Everyone knows that Kapil dragged his career too long which dented his statistics, and Asif never reached that phase. Leaving that aside, cricket is not a sport where performances are linear over the years. So 100 wickets is hardly enough sample size.

Let's not talk about skills since neither you or me have seen Kapil (or read very extensively about him).

Asif has 106 wickets, why not look at 106 wickets for him ?

Kapil over extending his career is counteracted with Asif missing 5- 6 years of his prime.

Most great players tend to have a bell curve like career where they peak in the middle and atrophy at the end, so it's more than fair enough to assume that Asif was entering his peak phase before being banned.

100 wickets are enough to judge a calibre of a player when you've played in a multitude of regions, all over the world and performed everywhere.

No, we should talk about skills - Asif was a once in a generation bowler and we also have posters such as [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]@Junaids who have seen Kapil.

 

[Junaids]

Agreed. If anyone can win us series it will be Yasir Shah (provided our batsmen can score half decent runs)


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I think the point in Australia (and England) is that you can't afford to have a no-pressure third or fourth bowler like Craig or Moeen or even Stokes.

You will need bowling partnerships in every session such as:

Amir + Asif
Wahab + Yasir

 

[Junaids]

Asif avgs 35 in tests in Australia.Pakistan hasnt even drawn a test match in Australia for 20 odd years.Take these boastings somewhere else.


Headingley is known as one of the most helpful tracks for seamers in England.Now wonder he did well.I dont need certification on my knowledge from you.And i have seen more cricket then you can imagine.



Only on PP is he considered a once a generation bowler.



LOL.ATG.LOL.

As far as Australia is concerned, you really can't compare India and Pakistan. India had the good fortune to encounter Australia Minus McGrath and Warne (2003-4) and Australia On Roads (2014-15).

I half-agree with you.

I agree that Asif was a serial offender in hias twenties, but because he was never convicted of any of those offences - because his Board covered them up - the PCB doesn't have a leg to stand on to exclude him now.

But he was a much better Test bowler than you give him credit for. After his first series he was in the Glenn McGrath category, but he has missed out on 50 Tests and 200 wickets due to his own stupidity.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kapil averaged 26 for his first 103 wickets. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Since you haven't seen Kapil, if he had retired right at that time, would you be thinking right now that there isn't much to separate Kapil and Asif statistically? Everyone knows that Kapil dragged his career too long which dented his statistics, and Asif never reached that phase. Leaving that aside, cricket is not a sport where performances are linear over the years. So 100 wickets is hardly enough sample size.

Let's not talk about skills since neither you or me have seen Kapil (or read very extensively about him).

why are you even arguing and dragging the name of Kapil dev who is widely considered as a great of the game with PP great Asif?

 

[Commander]

LOL, the audacity of some Indians to question Asifs talent when they have nothing to boast about from their own bowlers. He ruined himself because of his habits and brought disgrace to Pakistan but in terms of talent? He was better than any Indian bowler ever produced. He would have gone on to pick up many more wickets than many of their so called ATG bowlers

 

[Commander]

And btw, that one spell that brought their GOD of cricket on his knees should have been enough for them not to question the bowling talent Asif had

 

[cricketjoshila]

LOL, the audacity of some Indians to question Asifs talent when they have nothing to boast about from their own bowlers. He ruined himself because of his habits and brought disgrace to Pakistan but in terms of talent? He was better than any Indian bowler ever produced. He would have gone on to pick up many more wickets than many of their so called ATG bowlers

Asif isnt fit to tie the shoelaces of Kumble or Kapil who together have more than 1000 test wickets.Thata 10 times more than Asif.

The only talent of Asif that is talked about outside PP is his talent as a serial offender.

 

[Commander]

Asif isnt fit to tie the shoelaces of Kumble or Kapil who together have more than 1000 test wickets.Thata 10 times more than Asif.

The only talent of Asif that is talked about outside PP is his talent as a serial offender.

Haha ok man whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[Monsee]

1.Azharuddin was acquitted by courts as there was no proof againist him.So first get your facts right.




2.Asif was convicted of felony jailed in UK.Was suspended earlier for steroids.Was caught in Dubai carrying drugs and was in jail before Pak Govt bailed him out but not before he was banned from entering UAE.I wonder which Indian cricketer has such a wonderful resume.

1- Acquitted just like Sachin was not lifting/messing the seam in SA but was rather guilty of cleaning a ball that was shinny like a brand new apple; you could literally see your image in it?

2- Parbharkar, has been involved in fixing, been accused of chucking, has bitten a ball in an Int'l match (Afridi was right he was not the first), and has done enough ball tampering to shame many!

Asif has caused enough damage in his short career to Indian team (especially that little one when he sqautted in front of the whole crowd in Karachi) and I know it still burns your behind, so you still need that burnol?

 

[cricketjoshila]

1- Acquitted just like Sachin was not lifting/messing the seam in SA but was rather guilty of cleaning a ball that was shinny like a brand new apple; you could literally see your image in it?

2- Parbharkar, has been involved in fixing, been accused of chucking, has bitten a ball in an Int'l match (Afridi was right he was not the first), and has done enough ball tampering to shame many!

Asif has caused enough damage in his short career to Indian team (especially that little one when he sqautted in front of the whole crowd in Karachi) and I know it still burns your behind, so you still need that burnol?

1.Your crying and whining wont overturn court and ICC acquittals.Alas the world doesnt run according to your wishes.

2.Do let me know if Prabhakar was ever found guilty of anything else than fixing.

Do you want me to list the names of Pakistanis who have been actually convicted of fixing chucking and ball tampering?

3.Asif caused a lot of damage,to the image of Pakistan cricket that is.

 

[Abidi110]

And btw, that one spell that brought their GOD of cricket on his knees should have been enough for them not to question the bowling talent Asif had

They will keep trolling, the talent of Asif or any other bowler cannot become questionable because of some foolish troll.