"Forget Bumrah, I will acknowledge Shaheen if he manages to bowl better than Siraj": Harbhajan Singh

[jnaveen1980]

I believe in Mohammad Siraj. The guy bowls his heart out. It’s true he’s not the same impact bowler every time he bowls like Bumrah is but when it’s his day he’s a total match winner.

SSA has declined from being the top white ball fast bowler in the world to among the mediocre ones with occasional match winning spells with the new ball. See him off for 2 overs and he becomes half the bowler.

This comparison is not legit anymore. SSA is totally dropped from Pakistan Test team. ONly after that he managed to handle workload. Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months.Now SSA is officially an LOI format bowler. That's it.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This comparison is not legit anymore. SSA is totally dropped from Pakistan Test team. ONly after that he managed to handle workload. Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months.Now SSA is officially an LOI format bowler. That's it.

Yes.

I read DSP Siraj Miyan was the most overworked bowler in world cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He was good at the start with good pace. He even clocked 145k. But he became a workhorse since India abandoned the 4 pacer policy. When India had 4 pacers workload was managed more effectively. Not even Aussies couldn't handle workload. Look at Cummins. After 5 test series took a break.Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months

I don't want to take anything away from him. He has delivered some mega performances for India overseas. But right now he just isn't someone I think of when I think of the best fast-bowlers in the world. He is also a confidence bowler where if its his day, he can destroy oppositions, but on alot of days when its not, he just looks like an average medium-pacer.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I don't want to take anything away from him. He has delivered some mega performances for India overseas. But right now he just isn't someone I think of when I think of the best fast-bowlers in the world. He is also a confidence bowler where if its his day, he can destroy oppositions, but on alot of days when its not, he just looks like an average medium-pacer.

He gave everything at hsi disposal. But his efficiency dropped significantly as the load increased more and more. He is not a total idiot bowler like some are. His conversation with Wasim akram after perth test will reflect that. He is a very slightly built for a fast bowler. India was using him as an all format bowler. Plus he plays the IPL. I don't think he should play T20s, ODIs. He is good for Tests as he can slog all day if needed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Fair analogy but here is another way of looking at it, a Honda/ Toyota might give you a great return on your buck as it has great mileage and low maintenance and long-lasting.

A Ferrari might become a white elephant as you can’t really drive it on crowded roads, high maintenance and a really specialized/occasion vehicle and more about show off if you look at it practically.

That’s exactly how both their respective returns to their respective teams looks like.

Agarkar for what’s it’s worth has won a test in Aus for his team and is a WT20 winner and a wc finalist.

Akthar is a wc finalist and has the fastest delivery which if if I remember correctly didn’t even fetch a wicket.

Maximizing a lot out of less is also a win.

Are we seriously having this conversation? When you start talking about a player like 'for what its worth he....' it automatically tells the other person that you are defending the person in question, which tells the other person that deep down even you know that you're playing devil's advocate.

Akhtar is a guy who's impact goes beyond the field. He inspired youngsters and personified what it meant to bowl fast. He made fast-bowling cool again. He has plenty of performances of note as a Pakistan player. It's not like he has that one performance that fans bring up to make you forget his mountain of failures.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He gave everything at hsi disposal. But his efficiency dropped significantly as the load increased more and more. He is not a total idiot bowler like some are. His conversation with Wasim akram after perth test will reflect that. He is a very slightly built for a fast bowler. India was using him as an all format bowler. Plus he plays the IPL. I don't think he should play T20s, ODIs. He is good for Tests as he can slog all day if needed.

He definitely lacks bowling IQ. He is also someone that you can go after and he doesn't exactly have the pace or element of surprise to counter that. Very heavily reliant on line and length. So yeah I agree that he should only be playing tests.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He definitely lacks bowling IQ. He is also someone that you can go after and he doesn't exactly have the pace or element of surprise to counter that. Very heavily reliant on line and length. So yeah I agree that he should only be playing tests.

His experiment with short ball often backfired. He doesn't have shoulders to bowl a heavy ball. It is all arm speed. I am surprised someone who looks malnourished can bowl all day in Tests. If India has 4 fast bowlers like they had under Kohli's captaincy his output will be better. Right now even Bumrah is absued with just 3 fast bowlers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His experiment with short ball often backfired. He doesn't have shoulders to bowl a heavy ball. It is all arm speed. I am surprised someone who looks malnourished can bowl all day in Tests. If India has 4 fast bowlers like they had under Kohli's captaincy his output will be better. Right now even Bumrah is absued with just 3 fast bowlers.

India need a proper seam-bowling all-rounder if they want to bring balance to their attack overseas. If you select Reddy then trust him to bowl some overs instead of 5-6. In the past, India have been lucky to have someone like Shardul Thakur shine in that role, but he was never a long-term solution. So either give Reddy that role or find someone who can play it. Otherwise Bumrah will be run into the ground very quickly.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Harbajan is right. Siraj is improving day by day, while SSA has regressed

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

Nothing to do with their religion. SIraj genuinely needs a break. He was the highest ranked Indian fast bowler in ICC ranking in one dayers. 5th or something. Siraj as nowhere at his best in BGT. He picked some cheap wickets.. Won't blame him for last test though as Bumrah broke down and workload significantly increased. Playing 5 tests in a row is no joke especially where spinners are hardly used. Harshit Rana may have been preferred because of his KKR connection with Gauti. There could be possible bias. Definitely not religious bias. But among the rookies he looks to develop faster than others. He is far from finished. If Shami plays, Rana will sit out and Arshdeep will play.

 

[Devadwal]

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

Pakistan fans and Their narrow Minded thinking , what the hell religion has to with sport's

Siraj was bowling rubbish from last one year and he was rightly dropped from The team.

Shami is also part of The champion trophy . I mean kuch sochte bhi ho bolne se phle?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bumrah - Excellent
Shami - Very good, can push for excellent in ODI

Pakistan don't have any bowlers in these categories across formats so it makes sense to compare with Siraj and other bowlers.

 

[Local.Dada]

Are we seriously having this conversation? When you start talking about a player like 'for what its worth he....' it automatically tells the other person that you are defending the person in question, which tells the other person that deep down even you know that you're playing devil's advocate.

Akhtar is a guy who's impact goes beyond the field. He inspired youngsters and personified what it meant to bowl fast. He made fast-bowling cool again. He has plenty of performances of note as a Pakistan player. It's not like he has that one performance that fans bring up to make you forget his mountain of failures.

Pakistan’s most successful test bowler in recent time is a trundler- Abbas

We all saw how it works out for the Shoaib Akthar inspired super fast bowlers who huff and puff after 2-4 overs.

Agarkar was bowling faster than Shoaib by the time their careers were ending. Shoaib was bowling 135-140 in his last few series and Agarkar was hitting 140+ in IPL, Wt20
and domestics till his retirement.

Obviously now the facts hit you far too hard to deny India’s fast bowling anymore but Agarkar, Srinath, Nehra and Zaheer were faster than the 2 ws in the late 90s.

I have posted a video before of Waqar in some test match vs Australia bowling 125 clicks and no they weren’t slower balls.

Shoaib Akthar was “exciting” sure. That’s your benchmark: what are his returns exactly?

His claim to be fame seems to be he got Sachin and Dravid out in a test match. Apart from the fastest ball- zilch to show for.

Agarkar has a trophy cabinet and a man of the match in Adelaide where he blew the Aussies away, not some random super fast spell that didn’t yield results.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan fans and Their narrow Minded thinking , what the hell religion has to with sport's

Siraj was bowling rubbish from last one year and he was rightly dropped from The team.

Shami is also part of The champion trophy . I mean kuch sochte bhi ho bolne se phle?

India has a lot of untested fast bowlers. Few left arm seamers as well. They have to use them to see what they are made of.

 

[Local.Dada]

Bumrah - Excellent
Shami - Very good, can push for excellent in ODI

Pakistan don't have any bowlers in these categories across formats so it makes sense to compare with Siraj and other bowlers.

Abbas could have easily been a 200+ test wickets bowler for Pakistan.

Pak could have put together enough good bowlers for each format had they planned carefully.

However blindly playing anyone who hit 140 on the scales is a problem I think.

Some of them including Shoaib Akthar from the above discussion and even Md Sami, Wahab Riaz could have had a much successful career with better returns had they been managed carefully.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Abbas could have easily been a 200+ test wickets bowler for Pakistan.

Pak could have put together enough good bowlers for each format had they planned carefully.

However blindly playing anyone who hit 140 on the scales is a problem I think.

Some of them including Shoaib Akthar from the above discussion and even Md Sami, Wahab Riaz could have had a much successful career with better returns had they been managed carefully.

Yeah are right. Sami was a good LOI bowler but because of his test stats was discarded. We planned very poorly.