"Forget Jasprit Bumrah, I will acknowledge Shaheen Shah Afridi if he manages to bowl better than Siraj": Harbhajan Singh

[jnaveen1980]

I believe in Mohammad Siraj. The guy bowls his heart out. It’s true he’s not the same impact bowler every time he bowls like Bumrah is but when it’s his day he’s a total match winner.

SSA has declined from being the top white ball fast bowler in the world to among the mediocre ones with occasional match winning spells with the new ball. See him off for 2 overs and he becomes half the bowler.

This comparison is not legit anymore. SSA is totally dropped from Pakistan Test team. ONly after that he managed to handle workload. Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months.Now SSA is officially an LOI format bowler. That's it.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This comparison is not legit anymore. SSA is totally dropped from Pakistan Test team. ONly after that he managed to handle workload. Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months.Now SSA is officially an LOI format bowler. That's it.

Yes.

I read DSP Siraj Miyan was the most overworked bowler in world cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He was good at the start with good pace. He even clocked 145k. But he became a workhorse since India abandoned the 4 pacer policy. When India had 4 pacers workload was managed more effectively. Not even Aussies couldn't handle workload. Look at Cummins. After 5 test series took a break.Siraj played 9 tests in 2 or 3 months

I don't want to take anything away from him. He has delivered some mega performances for India overseas. But right now he just isn't someone I think of when I think of the best fast-bowlers in the world. He is also a confidence bowler where if its his day, he can destroy oppositions, but on alot of days when its not, he just looks like an average medium-pacer.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I don't want to take anything away from him. He has delivered some mega performances for India overseas. But right now he just isn't someone I think of when I think of the best fast-bowlers in the world. He is also a confidence bowler where if its his day, he can destroy oppositions, but on alot of days when its not, he just looks like an average medium-pacer.

He gave everything at hsi disposal. But his efficiency dropped significantly as the load increased more and more. He is not a total idiot bowler like some are. His conversation with Wasim akram after perth test will reflect that. He is a very slightly built for a fast bowler. India was using him as an all format bowler. Plus he plays the IPL. I don't think he should play T20s, ODIs. He is good for Tests as he can slog all day if needed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Fair analogy but here is another way of looking at it, a Honda/ Toyota might give you a great return on your buck as it has great mileage and low maintenance and long-lasting.

A Ferrari might become a white elephant as you can’t really drive it on crowded roads, high maintenance and a really specialized/occasion vehicle and more about show off if you look at it practically.

That’s exactly how both their respective returns to their respective teams looks like.

Agarkar for what’s it’s worth has won a test in Aus for his team and is a WT20 winner and a wc finalist.

Akthar is a wc finalist and has the fastest delivery which if if I remember correctly didn’t even fetch a wicket.

Maximizing a lot out of less is also a win.

Are we seriously having this conversation? When you start talking about a player like 'for what its worth he....' it automatically tells the other person that you are defending the person in question, which tells the other person that deep down even you know that you're playing devil's advocate.

Akhtar is a guy who's impact goes beyond the field. He inspired youngsters and personified what it meant to bowl fast. He made fast-bowling cool again. He has plenty of performances of note as a Pakistan player. It's not like he has that one performance that fans bring up to make you forget his mountain of failures.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He gave everything at hsi disposal. But his efficiency dropped significantly as the load increased more and more. He is not a total idiot bowler like some are. His conversation with Wasim akram after perth test will reflect that. He is a very slightly built for a fast bowler. India was using him as an all format bowler. Plus he plays the IPL. I don't think he should play T20s, ODIs. He is good for Tests as he can slog all day if needed.

He definitely lacks bowling IQ. He is also someone that you can go after and he doesn't exactly have the pace or element of surprise to counter that. Very heavily reliant on line and length. So yeah I agree that he should only be playing tests.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He definitely lacks bowling IQ. He is also someone that you can go after and he doesn't exactly have the pace or element of surprise to counter that. Very heavily reliant on line and length. So yeah I agree that he should only be playing tests.

His experiment with short ball often backfired. He doesn't have shoulders to bowl a heavy ball. It is all arm speed. I am surprised someone who looks malnourished can bowl all day in Tests. If India has 4 fast bowlers like they had under Kohli's captaincy his output will be better. Right now even Bumrah is absued with just 3 fast bowlers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His experiment with short ball often backfired. He doesn't have shoulders to bowl a heavy ball. It is all arm speed. I am surprised someone who looks malnourished can bowl all day in Tests. If India has 4 fast bowlers like they had under Kohli's captaincy his output will be better. Right now even Bumrah is absued with just 3 fast bowlers.

India need a proper seam-bowling all-rounder if they want to bring balance to their attack overseas. If you select Reddy then trust him to bowl some overs instead of 5-6. In the past, India have been lucky to have someone like Shardul Thakur shine in that role, but he was never a long-term solution. So either give Reddy that role or find someone who can play it. Otherwise Bumrah will be run into the ground very quickly.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Harbajan is right. Siraj is improving day by day, while SSA has regressed

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

Nothing to do with their religion. SIraj genuinely needs a break. He was the highest ranked Indian fast bowler in ICC ranking in one dayers. 5th or something. Siraj as nowhere at his best in BGT. He picked some cheap wickets.. Won't blame him for last test though as Bumrah broke down and workload significantly increased. Playing 5 tests in a row is no joke especially where spinners are hardly used. Harshit Rana may have been preferred because of his KKR connection with Gauti. There could be possible bias. Definitely not religious bias. But among the rookies he looks to develop faster than others. He is far from finished. If Shami plays, Rana will sit out and Arshdeep will play.

 

[Devadwal]

Knives will always be out for players like Siraj , Shami because of their religion in a country ruled by far right religious extremists. And they are not elite like Prasidh or Varun or Thakur or kedar or mohit to keep getting chances even if they fail.

Harshit Rana was selected for Champions trophy for his pace but they are playing in subcontinent conditions.

Siraj was the bowler in rhythm and who did well in the border gavaskar trophy , even though Bumrah is injured Siraj couldn’t find his place in the squad.

Pakistan fans and Their narrow Minded thinking , what the hell religion has to with sport's

Siraj was bowling rubbish from last one year and he was rightly dropped from The team.

Shami is also part of The champion trophy . I mean kuch sochte bhi ho bolne se phle?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bumrah - Excellent
Shami - Very good, can push for excellent in ODI

Pakistan don't have any bowlers in these categories across formats so it makes sense to compare with Siraj and other bowlers.

 

[Local.Dada]

Are we seriously having this conversation? When you start talking about a player like 'for what its worth he....' it automatically tells the other person that you are defending the person in question, which tells the other person that deep down even you know that you're playing devil's advocate.

Akhtar is a guy who's impact goes beyond the field. He inspired youngsters and personified what it meant to bowl fast. He made fast-bowling cool again. He has plenty of performances of note as a Pakistan player. It's not like he has that one performance that fans bring up to make you forget his mountain of failures.

Pakistan’s most successful test bowler in recent time is a trundler- Abbas

We all saw how it works out for the Shoaib Akthar inspired super fast bowlers who huff and puff after 2-4 overs.

Agarkar was bowling faster than Shoaib by the time their careers were ending. Shoaib was bowling 135-140 in his last few series and Agarkar was hitting 140+ in IPL, Wt20
and domestics till his retirement.

Obviously now the facts hit you far too hard to deny India’s fast bowling anymore but Agarkar, Srinath, Nehra and Zaheer were faster than the 2 ws in the late 90s.

I have posted a video before of Waqar in some test match vs Australia bowling 125 clicks and no they weren’t slower balls.

Shoaib Akthar was “exciting” sure. That’s your benchmark: what are his returns exactly?

His claim to be fame seems to be he got Sachin and Dravid out in a test match. Apart from the fastest ball- zilch to show for.

Agarkar has a trophy cabinet and a man of the match in Adelaide where he blew the Aussies away, not some random super fast spell that didn’t yield results.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan fans and Their narrow Minded thinking , what the hell religion has to with sport's

Siraj was bowling rubbish from last one year and he was rightly dropped from The team.

Shami is also part of The champion trophy . I mean kuch sochte bhi ho bolne se phle?

India has a lot of untested fast bowlers. Few left arm seamers as well. They have to use them to see what they are made of.

 

[Local.Dada]

Bumrah - Excellent
Shami - Very good, can push for excellent in ODI

Pakistan don't have any bowlers in these categories across formats so it makes sense to compare with Siraj and other bowlers.

Abbas could have easily been a 200+ test wickets bowler for Pakistan.

Pak could have put together enough good bowlers for each format had they planned carefully.

However blindly playing anyone who hit 140 on the scales is a problem I think.

Some of them including Shoaib Akthar from the above discussion and even Md Sami, Wahab Riaz could have had a much successful career with better returns had they been managed carefully.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Abbas could have easily been a 200+ test wickets bowler for Pakistan.

Pak could have put together enough good bowlers for each format had they planned carefully.

However blindly playing anyone who hit 140 on the scales is a problem I think.

Some of them including Shoaib Akthar from the above discussion and even Md Sami, Wahab Riaz could have had a much successful career with better returns had they been managed carefully.

Yeah are right. Sami was a good LOI bowler but because of his test stats was discarded. We planned very poorly.

 

[Devadwal]

Bhajji was right . Siraj is way better than Overhyped Shaheen

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Bhajji was right . Siraj is way better than Overhyped Shaheen

He also never knew one day DSP will expose the "Goat" too.

 

[Devadwal]

He also never knew one day DSP will expose the "Goat" too.

No one exposed goat but delusional peoples humiliated themselves who first said" Indian bowling is totally dependent on Bumrah" "India success is totally dependent on Bumrah"

Btw where is your trundlers Shaheen These day's?

 

[saimayubera]

He also never knew one day DSP will expose the "Goat" too.

The Goat has more SENA wickets than any Pakistani bowler ever

 

[saimayubera]

The best all format pace bowlers out of Asia since Shoaib have been Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Zaheer. They have won ICC trophies as well as won/drawn multiple SENA test series.

The next best bunch have been:

Malinga was great in white ball but not a red ball bowler.

Asif/Abbas have good red ball stats but smaller sample size and mostly played in friendly conditions. Also no white ball achievements.

Amir/Gul had good white ball performances including ICC trophies but poor in red ball.

Bhuvi decent red ball stats but similar to Asif/Abbas smaller sample size/friendly conditions. Was good in the CT 13 win.

Ishant great final years in test cricket plus good in CT 13 but was primarily a red ball bowler.

Umesh sort of similar. Decentish test bowler (especially at home) and was good in CT 13.

Irfan won the T20 WC with MoM in final plus won test series in Pak (and draw in Aus plus MoM in Perth).

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The Goat has more SENA wickets than any Pakistani bowler ever

Is this the new criteria of being GOAT?

Ok then Wasim total tally is somewhere in 400 in Tests and 500 in ODIs...let any goat candidate surpass it and get crowned. Valid point now?

 

[Ab Fan]

Siraj won India test matches in Gabba 2020, Lords 2021, Capetown 2023 and Oval 2025. What has Shaheen won in Tests?

 

[saimayubera]

Is this the new criteria of being GOAT?

Ok then Wasim total tally is somewhere in 400 in Tests and 500 in ODIs...let any goat candidate surpass it and get crowned. Valid point now?

That total tally consists of minnow bashing teams.

Quality wickets matter.

And tbh during Wasim's era, England and NZ were weak.

During Wasim's era the other teams in top 5 were WI, Aus, SA, Ind. He had 105 wkts @ 26.93 with 5 5fers in those countries.

Bumrah has 159 @ 21.46 in SENA with 11 5fers, the other top 5 teams apart from India in his era.

Sunil chettri has more international goals than Messi/CR7. Is he the football GOAT?

 

[AMSS]

Is Shaheen still discussed on this forum? Lmao

What a forgettable, cowardly journeyman. A nothing cricketer.

 

[saimayubera]

Siraj won India test matches in Gabba 2020, Lords 2021, Capetown 2023 and Oval 2025. What has Shaheen won in Tests?

Edgbaston 2025 too. Had a 5fer in first innings.

Shaheen has won ZERO tests in SENA and has ZERO 5fers VS SENA.

White ball wise also Siraj has a T20WC while Shaheen doesn't have any ICC trophy.

Plus Siraj also has an Asia Cup which Shaheen doesn't.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Shaheen and Siraj can be debated but the most important part of Harbajan statement is the first two words

"Forget Bumrah"

 

[The Bald Eagle]

That total tally consists of minnow bashing teams.

Quality wickets matter.

And tbh during Wasim's era, England and NZ were weak.

During Wasim's era the other teams in top 5 were WI, Aus, SA, Ind. He had 105 wkts @ 26.93 with 5 5fers in those countries.

Bumrah has 159 @ 21.46 in SENA with 11 5fers, the other top 5 teams apart from India in his era.

Sunil chettri has more international goals than Messi/CR7. Is he the football GOAT?

Ok fair point and I agree quality of wickets matter. Wasim against 1990s onwards legends and Bumrah against modern ones

 

[AMSS]

Has shaheen improved his pace? I remember on that last aus tour he would look at the scorecard reading his pace at 130s and he was like ''hum zor laga rahe hain lekin speedgun dikha nahin rahi'' hahahaha

 

[Champ_Pal]

Bhajji is spot on.

Shaheen is no doubt more talented than Siraj, but I don’t think he has the endurance and the energy to keep up the pace like DSP Soraj.

 

[Mamoon]

But who told Harbhajan that Shaheen or Pakistani fans need his acknowledgment?

 

[nish_mate]

Can Shaheen or that Naseem Shaseem do what Indian bowling team did? Forget that, can Shaheen or any Pakistani phasst meat eating bowler bowl more than 10 overs without falling apart?

 

[saimayubera]

Ok fair point and I agree quality of wickets matter. Wasim against 1990s onwards legends and Bumrah against modern ones
View attachment 156597

You are trolling yourself with this one.

Akram was notorious for taking majority tail wickets.

That's why his peak rating has been 830 which is quite poor. Should be close to 900. (because you egt more points for taking out top order batsmen)

Bumrah's peak is 908.

Guys like Kapil Dev, Hazlewood etc have 850+ peak ratings.

 

[nish_mate]

Shaheen and Siraj can be debated but the most important part of Harbajan statement is the first two words

"Forget Bumrah"

Shaheen aint even fit to tie Siraj's laces mate, he needs to first learn how to bowl more than 10 overs a day, then learn how to play a test match, then to to play more than a 2 test series and then work his way up. Not sure he's got the work ethic or the brains for that.

 

[Technics 1210]

Can Shaheen or that Naseem Shaseem do what Indian bowling team did? Forget that, can Shaheen or any Pakistani phasst meat eating bowler bowl more than 10 overs without falling apart?

Behave and pipe down. Shaheen and Co don't play as many tests as India does, Siraj will have to do this again to prove he's not a one hit wonder, and beating a 10 man team isn't so something to celebrate about.

 

[nish_mate]

Yawnnnnnn..... Shaheen aint even fit enough to be a one hit wonder.... cant even bowl more than 4 overs a spell....

 

[saimayubera]

Behave and pipe down. Shaheen and Co don't play as many tests as India does, Siraj will have to do this again to prove he's not a one hit wonder, and beating a 10 man team isn't so something to celebrate about.

He's done it many many times.

Shaheen is the one who has to first WIN a test in SENA or get a 5fer vs SENA to prove anything.

His average vs SENA is 38-39.

 

[Buffet]

Siraj will have to do this again to prove he's not a one hit wonder.

He has done it few times. If he does it again then he moves in the top 3 in this list.

Asian bowlers - 5-fers in wins outside Asia.

 

[saimayubera]

He has done it few times. If he does it again then he moves in the top 3 in this list.

Asian bowlers - 5-fers in wins outside Asia.

View attachment 156602

Bumrah and Siraj will be 1 and 2 when done. Wasim will have to be content with no 3.

Tbh Siraj would already be at 5 if there was no rain in that WI test.

 

[Technics 1210]

He has done it few times. If he does it again then he moves in the top 3 in this list.

Asian bowlers - 5-fers in wins outside Asia.

View attachment 156602

No, not about 5frs.

 

[Technics 1210]

These cult members are a proper laugh. Yesterday Bumrah was the goat, today Siraj is the Goat & Lion.

 

[nish_mate]

So how many tests has the meat eating Shaheen the Eagle won for his team in SENA?

Not even good enough to do a one time fluke.... Utter garbage test bowler...

 

[saimayubera]

So how many tests has the meat eating Shaheen the Eagle won for his team in SENA?

Not even good enough to do a one time fluke.... Utter garbage test bowler...

Mid bowlers like Sreesanth and Agarkar have managed to do that lol

 

[Technics 1210]

Siraj got lucky.

Had the rain not arrived on the 4th day, then he was physically done.

The rain arrived and he got a night's sleep.

Lucky India.

 

[nish_mate]

Shaheen not good enough to be lucky.... Luck favours the brave and all that ....

Pakistani streets must be pretty dire if Shaheens the best they can produce....

 

[Champ_Pal]

Bhajji should put some respect before calling him Siraj.

His name is DSP Siraj. mind it!!

 

[Sachin fan]

Bhajji should put some respect before calling him Siraj.

His name is DSP Siraj. mind it!!
View attachment 156607

Wonder why is only Siraj called out for getting a government post. Bhajji himself was a DSP in Punjab police when he was playing.

MS Dhoni was Lieutenant Colonel in the Indian Army, Sachin Tendulkar as Group Captain in the Indian Air Force, and Yuzvendra Chahal as an Income Tax Officer. KL Rahul also holds a position as Assistant Manager at the Reserve Bank of India.

Joginder Sharma: DSP in Haryana Police.
Umesh Yadav: Assistant Manager at the Reserve Bank of India.
Kapil Dev: Honorary Lieutenant Colonel in the Indian Territorial Army.

There are women cricketers like Deepti Sharma who are also DSP.

Wonder why only Siraj is mocked.

 

[Sachin fan]

Shaheen not good enough to be lucky.... Luck favours the brave and all that ....

Pakistani streets must be pretty dire if Shaheens the best they can produce....

Shaheen still has respectable numbers in tests. Look at Naseem shah. He averages 35+.

This is same numbers as some of our worst test bowlers in history, like Venkatesh Prasad and AB Kurivilla

At least Kurivilla only played 10 tests for india, Naseem has played 20 tests and is still playing.

They should stop getting bowlers from street and have a proper talent hunt like every other country.

 

[Sachin fan]

These cult members are a proper laugh. Yesterday Bumrah was the goat, today Siraj is the Goat & Lion.

We said he is better than Shaheen, not better than other Indian bowlers.

 

[Sachin fan]

Shaheen and Siraj can be debated but the most important part of Harbajan statement is the first two words

"Forget Bumrah"

English is not your strong suit, is it? The phrase clearly means bumrah is on a higher level. For eg, forget Bradman, I will acknowledge Root if he crosses Smith first.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Shaheen does not need his acknowledgement tbh... Shaheen just needs to work on his form and fitness.. Current Shaheen is nowhere among top 15-20 atm.. He is just a regular bowler but he is not someone you can keep down for long.

 

[saimayubera]

Shaheen still has respectable numbers in tests. Look at Naseem shah. He averages 35+.

This is same numbers as some of our worst test bowlers in history, like Venkatesh Prasad and AB Kurivilla

At least Kurivilla only played 10 tests for india, Naseem has played 20 tests and is still playing.

They should stop getting bowlers from street and have a proper talent hunt like every other country.

Naah, neither have respectable numbers.

Their numbers are all due to minnow bashing whom they play a lot.

Shaheen

vs SENA - 38.77 with 0 5fers in 18 matches (58% of matches)
vs Bang, Zim, WI, SL - 18.73 with 4 5fers in 13 matches (42% of matches)

Naseem

vs SENA - 46.24 with 0 5fers in 12 matches (60% of matches)
vs SL, Bang - 24.74 with 1 5fer in 8 matches (40% of matches)

Compare with Bumrah and Siraj

Bumrah

vs SENA - 21.56 with 12 5fers in 42 matches (87.5% of matches)
vs Bang, SL, WI - 10.32 with 3 5fers in 6 matches (12.5% of matches)

Siraj

vs SENA - 31.98 with 4 5fers in 35 matches (83% of matches)
vs Bang, WI - 25.29 with 1 5fer in 6 matches (17% of matches)

If Bumrah/Siraj had Shaheen/Naseem's 60/40 strong/weak split their averages would be something like 15/27 respectively.

And if Shaheen/Naseem had Bumrah/Siraj's 85/15 strong/weak split they would be at something like 35/40 respectively.

 

[pillionrider]

Naah, neither have respectable numbers.

Their numbers are all due to minnow bashing whom they play a lot.

Shaheen

vs SENA - 38.77 with 0 5fers in 18 matches (58% of matches)
vs Bang, Zim, WI, SL - 18.73 with 4 5fers in 13 matches (42% of matches)

Naseem

vs SENA - 46.24 with 0 5fers in 12 matches (60% of matches)
vs SL, Bang - 24.74 with 1 5fer in 8 matches (40% of matches)

Compare with Bumrah and Siraj

Bumrah

vs SENA - 21.56 with 12 5fers in 42 matches (87.5% of matches)
vs Bang, SL, WI - 10.32 with 3 5fers in 6 matches (12.5% of matches)

Siraj

vs SENA - 31.98 with 4 5fers in 35 matches (83% of matches)
vs Bang, WI - 25.29 with 1 5fer in 6 matches (17% of matches)

If Bumrah/Siraj had Shaheen/Naseem's 60/40 strong/weak split their averages would be something like 15/27 respectively.

And if Shaheen/Naseem had Bumrah/Siraj's 85/15 strong/weak split they would be at something like 35/40 respectively.

This post is going on a lot of ignore lists

 

[saimayubera]

This post is going on a lot of ignore lists

Hehe yeah.

Not only does Pakistan not have better fast bowlers than India, they don't have better Muslim fast bowlers lol.

 

[pillionrider]

Ok fair point and I agree quality of wickets matter. Wasim against 1990s onwards legends and Bumrah against modern ones
View attachment 156597

This stat is a meaningless stat. Would you rather prefer if Bumrah got smashed by the tail. That average reflects exactly what the tail is supposed to score against a top bowler.

Since you brought up Wasim, a more meaningful stat, the wickets taken, puts them more similar. Wasim took more tailenders compared to Bumrah who is better at taking out the middle-order and that probably had to do with being the master of reverse.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

English is not your strong suit, is it? The phrase clearly means bumrah is on a higher level. For eg, forget Bradman, I will acknowledge Root if he crosses Smith first.

Yes I know. I was making a play on words by condensing his sentence. But thanks for the lesson brother.

 

[nish_mate]

Shaheen the brainless and I break down after bowling 4 overs on the trot "bowler". Runs in fast and bowls at Joginder Sharma speeds... Joginder atleast got a T20 WC to show for his efforits... Shaheen what has he got???

 

[pillionrider]

Shaheen what has he got???

Friendship Day texts from Matthew Wade?