Former Pakistan cricket team captain Saeed Anwar's controversial views over women entering the workforce resulting in more divorces has gone viral

[Champ_Pal]

Hindu Marriage Act is not part of hindu religion , it was passed by legislature . I do not think Hindu scriptures give right of divorce to women.

There are no laws in Hinduism. There is only culture and rituals. The only book that is remotely considered as a Hindu law book is Manu Smriti. However, majority of Hindus reject it and laughed at. Most Hindus are backward castes and Dalits. They would never accept Manu Smriti and it gets constantly criticized/ridiculed and rightly so.

Hinduism is an inclusive religion and it can always be amended. No Hindu objected to the Hindu marriage act.

 

[Justcrazy]

There are no laws in Hinduism. There is only culture and rituals. The only book that is remotely considered as a Hindu law book is Manu Smriti. However, majority of Hindus reject it and laughed at. Most Hindus are backward castes and Dalits. They would never accept Manu Smriti and it gets constantly criticized/ridiculed and rightly so.

Hinduism is an inclusive religion and it can always be amended. No Hindu objected to the Hindu marriage act.

Hindus accepted or rejected Hindu Marriage Act no where changes my point . The point is that Hindu religion does not recognise divorce , they believe a man and woman should be together for whole life and beyond.

 

[Justcrazy]

Men and Women are equal.

Both have equal right to work, earn money, have an individuality and be happy.

If a woman is going to work and finding someone better than her lazy a$$ husband, she has all the right to divorce and move forward with her new partner.

A man has got the same right too.

That is how a progressive world thinks in 2024.

World has moved on from caging their women in house 24/7.

What is shocking though, many of them lives in western world, including in the UK

Doing House hold work and raising a family is caging according to you ?

Man and women are equal in Islam , but not identical , so do you agree with this or you think they are identical?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Hindus accepted or rejected Hindu Marriage Act no where changes my point . The point is that Hindu religion does not recognise divorce , they believe a man and woman should be together for whole life and beyond.

Yes. Divorce is alien and not allowed. However it can be amended and included as part of Hinduism. In the olden days, marriage is not a physical union. It is spiritual union and supposed to persist for many births.

Times changed and with modern values it is accepted and no one rejects divorce. It is becoming quite common now.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes. Divorce is alien and not allowed. However it can be amended and included as part of Hinduism. In the olden days, marriage is not a physical union. It is spiritual union and supposed to persist for many births.

Times changed and with modern values it is accepted and no one rejects divorce. It is becoming quite common now.

So when you are saying that it can be amended and made as part of hinduism , that means it is not a divine faith . Indirectly hindus themselves agree that there is nothing divine about their faith. It is man made philosophy.

 

[Human786]

Anwar lost it when that unfortunate death happened

 

[Champ_Pal]

So when you are saying that it can be amended and made as part of hinduism , that means it is not a divine faith . Indirectly hindus themselves agree that there is nothing divine about their faith. It is man made philosophy.

There are no do's and don'ts in Hinduism. This is why everything that Indians do is included in Hinduism. Many rituals or customs look strange to outsiders. No one objects to it and says Astaghfarullah!! We don't have that concept.

There is no book to tell what actually defines Sanatana Dharma. There are Vedas followed by Upanishads and Itihasas. Most of the Gods we see are human incarnations of the supreme lord(s). Even Charvakas or Materialists who do not believe in any Supreme deity or deities are also considered part of Hindu culture. Sanatana Dharma encompasses various schools of thoughts and it includes Buddhism and Jainism too along with many cults of Shiva, Shakti(Goddess), Vishnu/Narayan etc. Some schools of thoughts have branched off and does not want to identify with Sanatana Dharma. But Sanatana Dharma still admires all those schools of thoughts. No one kills just because someone comes up with a new philosophy. You choose what suits you or you come up with your own ideas. Kings like Rama and Krishna are admired by all schools of thought. This is why it is hard to define Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma to any outsider who is not familiar with the Indian history and philosophy.

Whether there is something divine in Hinduism or not depends on which school of thought you subscribe to. Ultimately all philosophies are man made. It is to understand world, our existence and ultimately make death a tad bit easier to accept. No one can give any proof to the Hindu Philosophies. No one can prove God exists. This is why there are so many atheists in India. A simple question of Prove it is enough to disprove the existence of God.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Yes. Divorce is alien and not allowed. However it can be amended and included as part of Hinduism. In the olden days, marriage is not a physical union. It is spiritual union and supposed to persist for many births.

Times changed and with modern values it is accepted and no one rejects divorce. It is becoming quite common now.

Not sure which part of India you are from. 2000+ year tamil literature doesn't doesn't even refer to husband and wife. It was written and Thalaivan (leader male) and thalaivi (leader female). Marriage is nothing more than a social contract.

Men where often the ones to violate it in the past. hence the bringing the whole villages together to let every one know they are each others partners thro "marriage" That didn't work. so they tried child marriages thinking that if they grew up together the contract would hold better. It brought about new problems.

The concept of women are only meant to cook and bear children model is in the dustbin at this point.

Of course, there are dinosaurs would want to hold on to that model

 

[rpant_gabba]

Doing House hold work and raising a family is caging according to you ?

Man and women are equal in Islam , but not identical , so do you agree with this or you think they are identical?

There are various groups that are identical. you picked gender. one can pick race, ethnicity, religion etc etc

If you want o live in a theocracy which dicates rules form eons ago you are welcome to it.

 

[Mockingbird]

So when you are saying that it can be amended and made as part of hinduism , that means it is not a divine faith . Indirectly hindus themselves agree that there is nothing divine about their faith. It is man made philosophy.

The best part about Hindu religion is that it is completely separate from Hindu law. We don’t have a central book telling us what to eat, drink, how to marry, divorce, etc - in fact, afaik our sacred books (Vedas) don’t dictate any civil matters & even if some obscure book like Manusmriti did, it is not considered part of religion & it is never mandatory for everybody to follow it. That is why it has been easier for us to move with the times and ban stuff like Sati or Female infanticide or impose restrictions on marriageable ages, because they are not part of the actual religion itself.

I guess it will be hard for you guys to grasp this concept because for you religion is enmeshed with everything.

 

[Justcrazy]

The best part about Hindu religion is that it is completely separate from Hindu law. We don’t have a central book telling us what to eat, drink, how to marry, divorce, etc - in fact, afaik our sacred books (Vedas) don’t dictate any civil matters & even if some obscure book like Manusmriti did, it is not considered part of religion & it is never mandatory for everybody to follow it. That is why it has been easier for us to move with the times and ban stuff like Sati or Female infanticide or impose restrictions on marriageable ages, because they are not part of the actual religion itself.

I guess it will be hard for you guys to grasp this concept because for you religion is enmeshed with everything.

I do not understand why had to write all this ? What you have written is supporting my point instead of refuting it.
You are saying that hinduism has no books to be followed , it does not give any social instructions , it does not have any religious instructions , then what does it have ? Hymns and poems?

Its like saying a school has no specific subjects to be taught , no books , no uniform , no fixed times , no syllabus , will that classify as a school?

 

[Justcrazy]

There are no do's and don'ts in Hinduism. This is why everything that Indians do is included in Hinduism. Many rituals or customs look strange to outsiders. No one objects to it and says Astaghfarullah!! We don't have that concept.

There is no book to tell what actually defines Sanatana Dharma. There are Vedas followed by Upanishads and Itihasas. Most of the Gods we see are human incarnations of the supreme lord(s). Even Charvakas or Materialists who do not believe in any Supreme deity or deities are also considered part of Hindu culture. Sanatana Dharma encompasses various schools of thoughts and it includes Buddhism and Jainism too along with many cults of Shiva, Shakti(Goddess), Vishnu/Narayan etc. Some schools of thoughts have branched off and does not want to identify with Sanatana Dharma. But Sanatana Dharma still admires all those schools of thoughts. No one kills just because someone comes up with a new philosophy. You choose what suits you or you come up with your own ideas. Kings like Rama and Krishna are admired by all schools of thought. This is why it is hard to define Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma to any outsider who is not familiar with the Indian history and philosophy.

Whether there is something divine in Hinduism or not depends on which school of thought you subscribe to. Ultimately all philosophies are man made. It is to understand world, our existence and ultimately make death a tad bit easier to accept. No one can give any proof to the Hindu Philosophies. No one can prove God exists. This is why there are so many atheists in India. A simple question of Prove it is enough to disprove the existence of God.

There is a difference between philosophy and religion , so according to you Hinduism is a philosophy , am I right

 

[Justcrazy]

There are various groups that are identical. you picked gender. one can pick race, ethnicity, religion etc etc

If you want o live in a theocracy which dicates rules form eons ago you are welcome to it.

I asked a simple question , is doing household work and raising family being caged according to you ? Its in plain simple English.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I asked a simple question , is doing household work and raising family being caged according to you ? Its in plain simple English.

Nope. thats not all you asked.

Yes, the if the female role is limited to doing household work and raising family, it is caged.

Simple enough for you?

would love to ask bunch of blunt questions about your "faith" and the various sky daddies if the mods allow it.

 

[Justcrazy]

Nope. thats not all you asked.

Yes, the if the female role is limited to doing household work and raising family, it is caged.

Simple enough for you?

would love to ask bunch of blunt questions about your "faith" and the various sky daddies if the mods allow it.

You are free to ask what you want to, there is no issues. But we need to go one point at a time. It cannot be that we are discussing one point and you keep jumping from here to there.


You said " Yes, the if the female role is limited to doing household work and raising family, it is caged "

So , that means you are saying that household work and raising the family should not be only job of a woman , she should not be limited to that. So you are saying a woman should do these work as well and then go outside to work as well?

 

[Justcrazy]

The sentence you wrote means exactly that in English. If you meant something else , you are welcome to rephrase that .

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Never meet your heroes.

 

[Hitman]

Never meet your heroes.

You say that with experience?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You say that with experience?

No just an idiom that I thought was quite apt in this case.

 

[Hitman]

No just an idiom that I thought was quite apt in this case.

Ok!

 

[big_gamer007]

When Hinduism came into being thousands of years ago the society probably didn’t even have a concept of divorce.

I don’t think there is my ancient Hindu scripture which talks about divorce, divorce is a modern concept which came into existence much later after Hinduism came into being.

Does the holy Quran talk about divorce?

 

[big_gamer007]

Hindu Marriage Act is not part of hindu religion , it was passed by legislature . I do not think Hindu scriptures give right of divorce to women.

Hinduism is thousands of years old, back then there was no concept of divorce so you won’t find any ancient scripture talking about divorce. That wasn’t a thing back then.

Divorce is a modern concept.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Does the holy Quran talk about divorce?

Yes it does brother. The subject of divorce is addressed in four different Surahs of the Quran.

 

[big_gamer007]

Yes it does brother. The subject of divorce is addressed in four different Surahs of the Quran.

Ok, what does it say on the subject?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Ok, what does it say on the subject?

Answered your question brother, want references as well???. Already gave my Point of view about this topic earlier.

 

[big_gamer007]

Answered your question brother, want references as well???. Already gave my Point of view about this topic earlier.

I can’t find the post where you tell what the 4 different Hadith’s have to say about divorce.
Can you let me know the post number? If you haven’t answered that part can you give a brief about it?

 

[Justcrazy]

Hinduism is thousands of years old, back then there was no concept of divorce so you won’t find any ancient scripture talking about divorce. That wasn’t a thing back then.

Divorce is a modern concept.

Hindu texts are also said to be old , even itihas like Ramayan , Mahabharat are pretty old considering the era we are speaking about. So , that means whatever issues happen between man and wife , there cannot be divorce.

In day to day life many things can happen , how to deal with them ? For example a women is caught doing adultery , or a husband ill treats wife or does not provide sustenance? There is NO practical solutions. So when Hinduism overlooks such important part of human life , it can be a philosophy , but not a complete way of life.

 

[Justcrazy]

When Hinduism came into being thousands of years ago the society probably didn’t even have a concept of divorce.

I don’t think there is my ancient Hindu scripture which talks about divorce, divorce is a modern concept which came into existence much later after Hinduism came into being.

Does the holy Quran talk about divorce?

Quran has a chapter named as surah At Talaq ( The Divorce ) , surah number 65. Apart from there in hadeeth books there are chapters about divorce.

 

[big_gamer007]

Hindu texts are also said to be old , even itihas like Ramayan , Mahabharat are pretty old considering the era we are speaking about. So , that means whatever issues happen between man and wife , there cannot be divorce.

In day to day life many things can happen , how to deal with them ? For example a women is caught doing adultery , or a husband ill treats wife or does not provide sustenance? There is NO practical solutions. So when Hinduism overlooks such important part of human life , it can be a philosophy , but not a complete way of life.

Hindu texts are also said to be old , even itihas like Ramayan , Mahabharat are pretty old considering the era we are speaking about. So , that means whatever issues happen between man and wife , there cannot be divorce.

In day to day life many things can happen , how to deal with them ? For example a women is caught doing adultery , or a husband ill treats wife or does not provide sustenance? There is NO practical solutions. So when Hinduism overlooks such important part of human life , it can be a philosophy , but not a complete way of life.

Hinduism isn’t strict like other religion. No where in Hinduism does it says that divorce is not possible, what I am saying is that in ancient times the concept of man leaving woman or vice Versa wasn’t prevalent, hence you won’t find any texts about divorce.

In general, Hinduism lets you use your own brain and make your decisions between right and wrong, instead of forcibly imposing religious practices on someone.
Of course there are religious practices and guidelines which are set for people to abide by, but by and large I don’t see it being imposed on people the same way as it is done in Islam.

Unlike Islam, which is a strict way of life and laws are written based on religion, Hindus don’t have their own laws and generally follow state law.

Most Hindus believe if there are issues between husband and wife you need to make your choice according to your brain rather than letting your religion tell you what is right or wrong

 

[big_gamer007]

Quran has a chapter named as surah At Talaq ( The Divorce ) , surah number 65. Apart from there in hadeeth books there are chapters about divorce.

What does it say?

That divorce is allowed between man and woman, based on either parties choice irrespective of whether they are right or wrong?

Or does it specify conditions in which it is allowed?

Or does it only specify men can give divorce?

 

[FearlessRoar]

Saeed Anwar's views on women working are quite outdated! With Claudia Sheinbaum poised to become Mexico's first female president, it's clear that the world is moving forward

 

[Justcrazy]

What does it say?

That divorce is allowed between man and woman, based on either parties choice irrespective of whether they are right or wrong?

Or does it specify conditions in which it is allowed?

Or does it only specify men can give divorce?

Brother , there are several hadeeth about divorce , you want me to write all of them down here , its better you ask a specific question.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hinduism isn’t strict like other religion. No where in Hinduism does it says that divorce is not possible, what I am saying is that in ancient times the concept of man leaving woman or vice Versa wasn’t prevalent, hence you won’t find any texts about divorce.

In general, Hinduism lets you use your own brain and make your decisions between right and wrong, instead of forcibly imposing religious practices on someone.
Of course there are religious practices and guidelines which are set for people to abide by, but by and large I don’t see it being imposed on people the same way as it is done in Islam.

Unlike Islam, which is a strict way of life and laws are written based on religion, Hindus don’t have their own laws and generally follow state law.

Most Hindus believe if there are issues between husband and wife you need to make your choice according to your brain rather than letting your religion tell you what is right or wrong

The question to be asked is whether hinduism is a religion or not. Whenever any question is asked , you get several different answers from Hindus. Somehow they do not seem to be confident about answering anything.

If we are supposed to use our brain in everything then what guidelines we are supposed to extract from being a hindu? Then what is the point of adhering to that faith , and saying we are worshiping this God and that God , when none of these instructions are preserved ?

It looks like you are saying God made humans , but never interacted with them in any way , and just let them do whatever they want to do.

If that is the case , then where do Hindus derive their morality from?

Yes , we all need to follow state laws to a greater extent , but if you follow ONLY state laws , even in personal matters , then how is hindu religion practiced?

If we use our brain in everything , and reject divine knowledge and rely only on acquired knowledge , then it indirectly means we are rejecting religion completely.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I can’t find the post where you tell what the 4 different Hadith’s have to say about divorce.
Can you let me know the post number? If you haven’t answered that part can you give a brief about it?

sure brother if you still need those let me know. I ma here to help and clear your doubt. But I guess one of the poster has already mentioned some.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The question to be asked is whether hinduism is a religion or not. Whenever any question is asked , you get several different answers from Hindus. Somehow they do not seem to be confident about answering anything.

If we are supposed to use our brain in everything then what guidelines we are supposed to extract from being a hindu? Then what is the point of adhering to that faith , and saying we are worshiping this God and that God , when none of these instructions are preserved ?

It looks like you are saying God made humans , but never interacted with them in any way , and just let them do whatever they want to do.

If that is the case , then where do Hindus derive their morality from?

Yes , we all need to follow state laws to a greater extent , but if you follow ONLY state laws , even in personal matters , then how is hindu religion practiced?

If we use our brain in everything , and reject divine knowledge and rely only on acquired knowledge , then it indirectly means we are rejecting religion completely.

Hinduism is not a religion. It is a culture and an amalgamation of hundreds of cultures across the subcontinent. This is why there are no strict rules. It is a loosely coupled religion.

You seem to be not able to think beyond Islam which has strict rules and anyone who deviates from those rules are considered apostates or kicked out of the club.

Hindu morality comes from the teachings of various wise men like Sages(Rishis), Buddha, Mahavira, Sikh Gurus and Historical/Mythical figures like Ram, Krishna etc. Everyone has impacted the morality and the way laws are implemented.

There is no divine knowledge. Come out of the delusion. Human morality is made up by men like you and me. The knowledge of how a society should work is gained through generation of stories shared among people. Societies evolve based on those stories. When new situations arise, the morality gets amended. You cannot put a pause on evolution of morality by saying this is final and nothing changes after this. There will always be opposition to it and violence occurs and many will be put to death who go against the set morality.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hinduism is not a religion. It is a culture and an amalgamation of hundreds of cultures across the subcontinent. This is why there are no strict rules. It is a loosely coupled religion.

You seem to be not able to think beyond Islam which has strict rules and anyone who deviates from those rules are considered apostates or kicked out of the club.

Hindu morality comes from the teachings of various wise men like Sages(Rishis), Buddha, Mahavira, Sikh Gurus and Historical/Mythical figures like Ram, Krishna etc. Everyone has impacted the morality and the way laws are implemented.

There is no divine knowledge. Come out of the delusion. Human morality is made up by men like you and me. The knowledge of how a society should work is gained through generation of stories shared among people. Societies evolve based on those stories. When new situations arise, the morality gets amended. You cannot put a pause on evolution of morality by saying this is final and nothing changes after this. There will always be opposition to it and violence occurs and many will be put to death who go against the set morality.

Firstly you need to determine if Hinduism is a religion or not. For me hinduism is a religion, because it fits into the term religion. If it is amalgamation of different beliefs, then all those beliefs cannot be correct, especially those which are 180 degrees to each other.

So at the end of the day, a hindu can derive morality from anyone whom he wants to; there are no hard and fast rules? Am I correct ?

Whether Morality is divine or not is a separate question, Here we are discussing completely from a Hinduism point of view.