France: Teacher beheaded, police shoot dead suspected killer

[Nadeemp]

PARIS (AP) — A history teacher who opened a discussion with high school students on caricatures of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad was beheaded in a French street on Friday and police have shot dead the suspected killer, authorities said.

The French anti-terrorism prosecutor opened an investigation concerning murder with a suspected terrorist motive, the prosecutor’s office said.

The gruesome killing of the teacher occurred in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine while the suspect was killed by police in adjoining Eragny. The towns are located in the Val d’Oise region northwest of Paris.

President Emmanuel Macron was headed to the area.

A police official said the suspect, armed with a knife and an airsoft gun — which fires plastic pellets — was shot dead about 600 meters (yards) from where the male teacher was killed after he failed to respond to orders to put down his arms, and acted in a threatening manner.

The teacher had received threats after opening a discussion “for a debate” about the caricatures about 10 days ago, the police official told The Associated Press. The parent of a student had filed a complaint against the teacher, another police official said, adding that the suspected killer did not have a child at the school. The suspect’s identity was not made public.

The two officials could not be named because they were not authorized to discuss ongoing investigations.

“We didn’t see this coming,” Conflans resident Remi Tell said on CNews TV station. He described the town as peaceful.

It was the second terrorism-related incident since the opening of an ongoing trial on the newsroom massacre in Jan. 2015 at the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo after the publication of caricatures of the prophet of Islam.

As the trial opened, the paper republished caricatures of the prophet to underscore the right of freedom of expression. Exactly three weeks ago, a young man from Pakistan was arrested after stabbing, outside the newspaper’s former offices, two people who suffered non life-threatening injuries. The 18-year-old told police he was upset about the publication of the caricatures.

The incident came as Macron’s government is working on a bill to address Islamist radicals who authorities claim are creating a parallel society outside the values of the French Republic.

https://apnews.com/article/france-teacher-decapitated-eragny-f1ecd575344d171ff8fc8c33c5320f0c

 

[Tubs]

Bloody hell, that's insane.

No one should be killed for showing a cartoon.

 

[James]

That is terrifying.

 

[Bigboii]

If a history teacher cant do that than he shouldn't be a history teacher

That's HIS JOB he has to open your mind, you have to think critically and not go on a killing spree because you are "offended" (I know as Muslims its a touchy subject but this is exactly why he is opening up the discussion to get your side of the story)

This is definitely pathetic but I hope this doesn't scare the teacher around the world from holding discussions

I feel really sad because its almost a bit personnel I remember in history classes we debated israel/Palestine and its historical issues, aurangzeb was a good guy or a bad guy (we had to paint him good to get the other side of the story it was awesome all of our viewpoints as a group of individuals changed and we saw different good things in the man), Pax Romana and legacy western civilizations to the world, how crusader's were good in some ways, hell we even debated the subject this fool killed the teacher for (I was coming out of high school when all of this Charlie Hebdo situation was happening)

These debates just transformed me and my peers, our personality changed, confidence levels went up and it was a perfect preparation for the real world

and this is exactly the reason I hate this situation so much because this can lead to teachers not touching controversial subjects and this is imo robbing kids from their education because some lunatic is stabbing people because he is b***hurt

well that's not fair to the kids!

 

[Lurker_Ind]

RIP teacher.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

France has become a hotbed for brainwashed Jihadis. No wonder Macron wants to keep an eye on the Clerics and their teachings.

 

[JaDed]

RIP the teacher.

 

[Bigboii]

France has become a hotbed for brainwashed Jihadis. No wonder Macron wants to keep an eye on the Clerics and their teachings.

Know be careful
This is when abuses against minority starts

Japs were put into camps after pearl harbour to keep an eye on tham
Muslims were discriminated and their lives became hell after 9/11 because they wanted to keep an eye on them

This is a tragedy but you cannot go around and create tradegies for other peaceful muslims

It's a slippery slope right there

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Know be careful
This is when abuses against minority starts

Japs were put into camps after pearl harbour to keep an eye on tham
Muslims were discriminated and their lives became hell after 9/11 because they wanted to keep an eye on them

This is a tragedy but you cannot go around and create tradegies for other peaceful muslims

It's a slippery slope right there

Peaceful Muslims do not carry a tag on their head informing the people around them. It takes a few rotten tomatoes to suspect the whole crop. I agree that it is a slippery slope. Mistrust will only grow.

 

[miandadrules]

Peaceful Muslims do not carry a tag on their head informing the people around them. It takes a few rotten tomatoes to suspect the whole crop. I agree that it is a slippery slope. Mistrust will only grow.

That’s very dangerous and I’d say reckless language.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Scary, act such as this will only going to make everyone lives difficult. Far right will pick on it and weaponize it for political gains against all Muslims.

 

[Nadeemp]

Who is the attacker? Hope not pakistani

 

[sweep_shot]

Macron calls Paris beheading 'Islamist terrorist attack'

French President Emmanuel Macron has called the beheading of a teacher in a north-western suburb of Paris an "Islamist terrorist attack".

The victim is said to have shown controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his pupils. The attacker was shot dead by police.

Mr Macron said the as yet unnamed teacher was murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

"They won't win... We will act," the president said from the scene.

The attack occurred at about 17:00 local time (15:00 GMT) near a school. Anti-terror prosecutors are investigating.

The knife-wielding attacker was shot as officers tried to arrest him in the aftermath of the attack. Police have not released any personal details about him.

A trial is currently under way in Paris over a 2015 Islamist assault on the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which was targeted for publishing the cartoons.

Three weeks ago, a man attacked and wounded two people outside the magazine's former offices.

What do we know about what happened?
A man wielding a large knife attacked the teacher in a street in an area called Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, cutting off his head. A police source said that witnesses had heard the attacker shout "Allahu Akbar", or "God is Greatest", the Reuters news agency reported.

The attacker then ran off, but local police alerted by the public were quickly at the scene.

The officers confronted the man in the nearby district of Éragny.

When they shouted at him to give himself up, he is said to have threatened them. The officers shot him and he died a short time later.

The scene is now sealed off, as the investigation continues.

Four people, including a minor, have been arrested, a judicial source told AFP early on Saturday. Those arrested were related to the attacker, the source said.

In a tweet (in French), police urged members of the public to avoid the area.

French broadcaster BFMTV reported that the suspected attacker was an 18-year-old man who was born in Moscow.

Who was the victim?
According to Le Monde newspaper, the victim, a teacher of history and geography, had been talking in class about freedom of expression in connection with the Muhammad cartoons, which caused uproar among some Muslims when Charlie Hebdo published them.

The teacher had reportedly advised Muslim students to leave the room if they thought they might be offended.

Earlier this month, some Muslim parents complained to the school about the teacher's decision to use one or more of the cartoons as part of a discussion about the Charlie Hebdo trial, French media report.

"According to my son, he was super nice, super friendly, super kind," a parent from the school, Nordine Chaouadi, told the AFP news agency.

Reacting to Friday's attack, Charlie Hebdo tweeted: "Intolerance just reached a new threshold and seems to stop at nothing to impose terror in our country."

If this motive for the killing is substantiated, it will be deeply shocking to the French, says the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris. They will see it as not just a brutal attack, he says, but a brutal attack on a teacher for carrying out his duty to explain.

France has seen a wave of Islamist violence since the 2015 attack on Charlie Hebdo that left 12 people dead, including famous cartoonists.

How is France reacting?
The murder bore the hallmarks of "an Islamist terrorist attack," Mr Macron told reporters at the scene of the attack.

"One of our fellow citizens was assassinated today because he was teaching, he was teaching pupils about freedom of expression," he said.

In the National Assembly, France's parliament, deputies stood up to honour the teacher killed on Friday and condemn the "atrocious terror attack".

Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin, travelling to Morocco, is returning urgently to Paris.

Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer tweeted that the killing of a teacher was an attack on the French Republic.

He said his thoughts were with the victim and his family, and unity and firmness were the only responses to "Islamist terrorism".

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54579403.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I don't know why people are surprised by the comments made by [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] it's not the first time he's shown inclinations towards extremism. When the religion encourages things like this there will always be people like him.

He called the killer an idiot and a good riddance. That is not inclination towards extremism. probably should have not used both in the same sentence.

 

[MenInG]

This thread is about what is mentioned in Post#1 - and not about posters.

 

[Varun]

Who is the attacker? Hope not pakistani

Like I said in another French thread, most Muslims in France come from their ex-colonies - Algeria, Senegal, Libya, Ivory Coast etc. Pakistanis have nothing to do with this and should make it clear to any Frenchman who confronts them. Why should Pakistanis face the heat for the misdemeanors of some African nutter anyway?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Know be careful
This is when abuses against minority starts

Japs were put into camps after pearl harbour to keep an eye on tham
Muslims were discriminated and their lives became hell after 9/11 because they wanted to keep an eye on them

This is a tragedy but you cannot go around and create tradegies for other peaceful muslims

It's a slippery slope right there

Yes peaceful law abiding muslims shouldn't face problems.

But how do you separate them? Can you blame people if they want to keep a distance from muslims for their safety? People's lives have been lost, when that happens, all these ideals of liberty fraternity equality takes a back seat.

What stops another post 9/11 scenario to develop around the world?

Yes Japanese were put into camps because rest of America feared for their lives. Fear for one's life will make people do a lot of things.

Remember those who made the laws in the west, can also change it.

 

[saeedhk]

That is very tragic. This will further fuel Islamophobia which is an understandable response to barbarity like this one.

Where is the attacker from?

 

[Energy]

Seems like everyone is eagerly awaiting for the nationality of the attacker. Sad.

FYI - It is not a Pakistani.

 

[Manunited18]

Hes a 18 year old Russian.

 

[Manunited18]

Yes peaceful law abiding muslims shouldn't face problems.

But how do you separate them? Can you blame people if they want to keep a distance from muslims for their safety? People's lives have been lost, when that happens, all these ideals of liberty fraternity equality takes a back seat.

What stops another post 9/11 scenario to develop around the world?

Yes Japanese were put into camps because rest of America feared for their lives. Fear for one's life will make people do a lot of things.

Remember those who made the laws in the west, can also change it.

It's easy, it's like separating innocent , loving, peaceful hindus in India from mohdis extremists and vile followers.

 

[Sirris]

The nationality or ethnic origin of the attacker doesn't matter, since they didn't motivate the attack.

It was his religious outlook and zealous which led him to this cruelty. At least 90% of Pakistani Muslims will regard this attacker as a hero regardless of his nationality.

This religious outlook and zealous can not be fought by such "satire". No amount of satire is going to motivate Muslims to reflect upon their religious views. At best humiliating depiction of "prophet" Muhammad disguised as "satire" is going to give an ego boost to sick individuals.

Therefore I don't support the "satirical" cartoons.

Islam is a man-made religion just like all other religions. There is not divine hand behind it.

To make Muslims reflect upon and critically question their fundamental belief systems authentic and constructive criticism is needed not unnecessary provocation which accomplishes nothing and potentially increases the divide.

 

[Manunited18]

The nationality or ethnic origin of the attacker doesn't matter, since they didn't motivate the attack.

It was his religious outlook and zealous which led him to this cruelty. At least 90% of Pakistani Muslims will regard this attacker as a hero regardless of his nationality.

This religious outlook and zealous can not be fought by such "satire". No amount of satire is going to motivate Muslims to reflect upon their religious views. At best humiliating depiction of "prophet" Muhammad disguised as "satire" is going to give an ego boost to sick individuals.

Therefore I don't support the "satirical" cartoons.

Islam is a man-made religion just like all other religions. There is not divine hand behind it.

To make Muslims reflect upon and critically question their fundamental belief systems authentic and constructive criticism is needed not unnecessary provocation which accomplishes nothing and potentially increases the divide.

I thought people like you were locked up .

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's easy, it's like separating innocent , loving, peaceful hindus in India from mohdis extremists and vile followers.

Are Hindus wanted for terror attacks in any country? If yes, which and how many?

Making such ridiculous posts wont change the reality.

 

[Sirris]

I thought people like you were locked up .

How about you muster up the courage to properly articulate your disagreement with what I said and present us with your point of view.

 

[Manunited18]

How about you muster up the courage to properly articulate your disagreement with what I said and present us with your point of view.

Ok key board warrior , prove to me like you stated 90% of Pakistani muslims will support the attacker, that is a massive statement which requires substance and not just typical bluff, so I'm all ears

 

[Manunited18]

Are Hindus wanted for terror attacks in any country? If yes, which and how many?

Making such ridiculous posts wont change the reality.

Have i touched a nerve?, apologies, I'm just differentiating good people and evil people so I used India as a example

 

[Zaz]

The nationality or ethnic origin of the attacker doesn't matter, since they didn't motivate the attack.

It was his religious outlook and zealous which led him to this cruelty. At least 90% of Pakistani Muslims will regard this attacker as a hero regardless of his nationality.

This religious outlook and zealous can not be fought by such "satire". No amount of satire is going to motivate Muslims to reflect upon their religious views. At best humiliating depiction of "prophet" Muhammad disguised as "satire" is going to give an ego boost to sick individuals.

Therefore I don't support the "satirical" cartoons.

Islam is a man-made religion just like all other religions. There is not divine hand behind it.

To make Muslims reflect upon and critically question their fundamental belief systems authentic and constructive criticism is needed not unnecessary provocation which accomplishes nothing and potentially increases the divide.

Thats rubbish, 90% of people will condone this brutal act on this forum
Its who you ask and how educated they are

The fact is france is full of north and central africans and other muslims where this sort of talk isnt acceptable because of the backgrounds they come from

You cant beat the drum of liberty freedom etc when youve not educated a certain percentage on your values

There is a wide chasm between the muslims of france and the non muslims and that needs to be bridged first of all

Both parties need to meet in the middle somewhere

 

[MenInG]

Sky News has confirmed the man stabbed to death in a suspected terror attack near Paris was 47-year-old teacher Samuel Paty

 

[Itachi]

I thought people like you were locked up .

Another example of intolerance against difference in opinion where the expectation seems to be extreme.

 

[Manunited18]

Another example of intolerance against difference in opinion where the expectation seems to be extreme.

Either you are ignorant or illiterate, the person's post was bordering on extreme without any evidence, to suggest 90% Pakistani muslims would support the killing is no opinion, rather than baseless allegations. Like I stated statements like these need to be backed up by FACTS

 

[Thulsa]

This will sadly galvanise anti-Islam sentiments in France. Hopefully this gets nipped in the bud and no further violence ensues - for all people.

 

[saeedhk]

The nationality or ethnic origin of the attacker doesn't matter, since they didn't motivate the attack.

It was his religious outlook and zealous which led him to this cruelty. At least 90% of Pakistani Muslims will regard this attacker as a hero regardless of his nationality.

This religious outlook and zealous can not be fought by such "satire". No amount of satire is going to motivate Muslims to reflect upon their religious views. At best humiliating depiction of "prophet" Muhammad disguised as "satire" is going to give an ego boost to sick individuals.

Therefore I don't support the "satirical" cartoons.

Islam is a man-made religion just like all other religions. There is not divine hand behind it.

To make Muslims reflect upon and critically question their fundamental belief systems authentic and constructive criticism is needed not unnecessary provocation which accomplishes nothing and potentially increases the divide.

You are correct about the 90% figure.

Many Pakistanis here on PP have not lived in Pakistan nor do they follow what goes on in Pakistan. You just have to go to a news article about a killing of an alleged blasphemer or an Ahmedi and see how all Pakistanis celebrate such attacks.

Unfortunately, extremism had seeped into every segment of Pakistani society.

Two days back marked the day when Dr Abdus Salam received the Nobel Award for his work in physics and the BBC published a news report about feats of this great man. However, the comment section was filled by hate messages by Pakistanis who were attacking AS for his religious beliefs. Also, two days back, a group of university students defaced the portrait of AS.

When a teenager gunned down a suspect blasphemer inside Peshawar court, thousands took to the streets to support the attacker. He was kissed and garlanded when he appeared in court.

I do not understand why Pakistani refuse the acknowledge the fact that majority of Pakistanis hold extreme views.

 

[MenInG]

You are correct about the 90% figure.

Many Pakistanis here on PP have not lived in Pakistan nor do they follow what goes on in Pakistan. You just have to go to a news article about a killing of an alleged blasphemer or an Ahmedi and see how all Pakistanis celebrate such attacks.

Unfortunately, extremism had seeped into every segment of Pakistani society.

Two days back marked the day when Dr Abdus Salam received the Nobel Award for his work in physics and the BBC published a news report about feats of this great man. However, the comment section was filled by hate messages by Pakistanis who were attacking AS for his religious beliefs. Also, two days back, a group of university students defaced the portrait of AS.

When a teenager gunned down a suspect blasphemer inside Peshawar court, thousands took to the streets to support the attacker. He was kissed and garlanded when he appeared in court.

I do not understand why Pakistani refuse the acknowledge the fact that majority of Pakistanis hold extreme views.

As they say in Urdu Sonay par sohaga.

I leave for others to ridicule your statement.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Have i touched a nerve?, apologies, I'm just differentiating good people and evil people so I used India as a example

As i said, making ridiculous posts doesn't change the reality.

 

[MenInG]

The teacher who was beheaded in a street in France had received threats after showing controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his pupils, French media report.

Nine people have been arrested, including the parents of a child at the school where the teacher was working, judicial sources are quoted as saying.

The attacker was shot dead by police near the scene of Friday's killing.

Police say the attacker was an 18-year-old man of Chechen origin.

The killing took place while a trial is under way in Paris over a 2015 Islamist assault on the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which was targeted for publishing the cartoons.

French President Emmanuel Macron said the attack bore all the hallmarks of an "Islamist terrorist attack" and the teacher had been murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

Speaking at the scene hours after the incident, he stressed national unity. "They will not prevail, they will not divide us," he said.

What do we know?
The attack occurred at about 17:00 (15:00 GMT) near a middle school in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, some 30km (20 miles) north-west of central Paris.

A man wielding a large knife attacked the teacher in the street, cutting off his head. Witnesses are said to have heard the attacker shout "Allahu Akbar", or "God is Greatest".

The attacker then ran off, but local police were quickly at the scene, having been alerted by the public.

Police at the scene of the teacher's murder in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine on 16 October 2020

The officers confronted the man in the nearby town of Éragny.

When they shouted at him to give himself up, he is said to have threatened them. The officers shot him and he died a short time later.

The scene is now sealed off, as the investigation continues.

Police have said the attacker was an 18-year-old, born in Moscow but from Russia's predominantly-Muslim southern region of Chechnya. His grandparents and two brothers are among those arrested.

Who was the victim?
Police have identified the victim as 47-year-old Samuel Paty, a teacher of history and geography, who had taken a class about freedom of expression earlier in the month.

He is said to have shown the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad while talking about the Charlie Hebdo case, and had reportedly advised Muslim students to leave the room if they thought they might be offended.

Some Muslim parents complained to the school and French media report that Mr Paty had received a number of unspecified threats as a result of the class.

"According to my son, he was super-nice, super-friendly, super-kind," a parent from the school, Nordine Chaouadi, told AFP news agency.

Charlie Hebdo tweeted: "Intolerance just reached a new threshold and seems to stop at nothing to impose terror in our country."

France has seen a wave of Islamist violence since the 2015 attack on Charlie Hebdo that left 12 people dead, including famous cartoonists.

Three weeks ago, as the trial got under way, a man attacked and wounded two people outside the magazine's former offices.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54581827

 

[Sirris]

Either you are ignorant or illiterate, the person's post was bordering on extreme without any evidence, to suggest 90% Pakistani muslims would support the killing is no opinion, rather than baseless allegations. Like I stated statements like these need to be backed up by FACTS

I get it, you are a coward who hide behinds ridicule as a cheap attempt to duck criticism and facing the bitter reality.

You choose to be legalistic in order to avoid facing the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that people here are pretending as if nationality of the attacker matters. When in fact it doesn't 'matter the slightest bit.

The same ideology which motivated this attack is widespread in Pakistan. You can't pretend that you have a clean sheet just because the attacker didn't have Pakistani roots this time around.

I admit I have no hard data to justify the figure of 90% of Pakistani Muslims agreeing with the attacker. I am willing to re-examine my views. The figure is based on my life experience as someone who grew up in Pakistan and is very familiar with the people and the general mentality.

You are more than welcome to provide me with hard facts.

What's the actual figure 80%? 60%?

Surely it has to be more than 50% considering how:

Hard Fact #1 Pakistani constitution explicitly says that the punishment for insulting the Prophet of Islam is DEATH.

Instead of merely saying what you disagree with how about you be brave and state what you believe in.

Do you seriously believe that an overwhelming majority of Pakistani DO NOT agree with the POV that a person "insulting" the Prophet should be killed?

In fact even publicly mentioning a critical word on Prophet would get you labeled as a heretic and doomed to death.

Forget that, even saying that the blasphemy law in Pakistani constitution is a "black law" got one of a high profile political leader Salman Taseer killed by his own bodyguard.

Who are you trying to fool?

 

[Manunited18]

Ok key board warrior, rather than evidence or facts you now admit that is your opinion which is fare enough.

 

[Manunited18]

You are correct about the 90% figure.

Many Pakistanis here on PP have not lived in Pakistan nor do they follow what goes on in Pakistan. You just have to go to a news article about a killing of an alleged blasphemer or an Ahmedi and see how all Pakistanis celebrate such attacks.

Unfortunately, extremism had seeped into every segment of Pakistani society.

Two days back marked the day when Dr Abdus Salam received the Nobel Award for his work in physics and the BBC published a news report about feats of this great man. However, the comment section was filled by hate messages by Pakistanis who were attacking AS for his religious beliefs. Also, two days back, a group of university students defaced the portrait of AS.

When a teenager gunned down a suspect blasphemer inside Peshawar court, thousands took to the streets to support the attacker. He was kissed and garlanded when he appeared in court.

I do not understand why Pakistani refuse the acknowledge the fact that majority of Pakistanis hold extreme views.

Back your statement with facts!, it's as simple as that

 

[Sirris]

Thats rubbish, 90% of people will condone this brutal act on this forum
Its who you ask and how educated they are

The fact is france is full of north and central africans and other muslims where this sort of talk isnt acceptable because of the backgrounds they come from

You cant beat the drum of liberty freedom etc when youve not educated a certain percentage on your values

There is a wide chasm between the muslims of france and the non muslims and that needs to be bridged first of all

Both parties need to meet in the middle somewhere

Surely you meant to say "90% of people will CONDEMN the act"

This forum doesn't represent the average Pakistani living in Pakistan.

My main point is that instead of breathing a sigh of relief that the attacker wasn't a Pakistani we should be reflecting upon the fact that this ideology which motivated him is widely spread in Pakistan.

Instead of seeing this as a problem of French people we should see it as a problem for anyone who prefers peace and harmony instead of war and hatred.

Today it's a teacher in France tomorrow it could be a politician in Pakistan if he even dares to say that some of the teachings of the Prophet may not be relevant in the modern society.

 

[Sirris]

Ok key board warrior, rather than evidence or facts you now admit that is your opinion which is fare enough.

I am not a coward like you nor is my self-esteem attached with my world view. Re-examining them is no problem for me.

On the contrary, by once again resorting to name calling and not having the courage to properly state what you believe in and coming with a coherent arguments you once again provided the proof of your cowardice and lack of integrity.

 

[Itachi]

Either you are ignorant or illiterate, the person's post was bordering on extreme without any evidence, to suggest 90% Pakistani muslims would support the killing is no opinion, rather than baseless allegations. Like I stated statements like these need to be backed up by FACTS

You seem to have comprehension fail.

You can reject his opinion as much as you want. It's a free world and if you believe he is misrepresenting facts, then you have every right to refute and present the real data.

The issue however is, you expect him to be locked up because his views doesn't coincide with your views.

Similar to how KKWC expressed that, that teacher is better off because that teacher represented a view that doesn't align with him.

Similar to how that man murdered the teacher because he was in disagreement with the opinions of that teacher.

There's a similarity in all these three cases.

 

[Gilly]

I am not a coward like you nor is my self-esteem attached with my world view. Re-examining them is no problem for me.

On the contrary, by once again resorting to name calling and not having the courage to properly state what you believe in and coming with a coherent arguments you once again provided the proof of your cowardice and lack of integrity.

You could both have a real good discussion and both be better for it,

Just forget what happened and both start again without either ever getting personal again.

 

[Manunited18]

I am not a coward like you nor is my self-esteem attached with my world view. Re-examining them is no problem for me.

On the contrary, by once again resorting to name calling and not having the courage to properly state what you believe in and coming with a coherent arguments you once again provided the proof of your cowardice and lack of integrity.

I'm replying like for like, back to the main point, you stated 90% of the Pakistani muslims support this kind of fact, back it up with evidence , its as simple as that.

 

[Manunited18]

You could both have a real good discussion and both be better for it,

Just forget what happened and both start again without either ever getting personal again.

I'm just asking for the evidence where he stated that 90% of Pakistani muslims will back these kind of acts which is a massive statement for which I'm being lambasted for.

 

[Manunited18]

You seem to have comprehension fail.

You can reject his opinion as much as you want. It's a free world and if you believe he is misrepresenting facts, then you have every right to refute and present the real data.

The issue however is, you expect him to be locked up because his views doesn't coincide with your views.

Similar to how KKWC expressed that, that teacher is better off because that teacher represented a view that doesn't align with him.

Similar to how that man murdered the teacher because he was in disagreement with the opinions of that teacher.

There's a similarity in all these three cases.

Hes entitled to his opinion, but it's a big statement suggesting 90% of Pakistani muslims backed these kind of actions in which I'm entitled to ask for hard facts.Its like i can paint majority of Indians with the same brush as mohdi as right wing extremists but that would be naive without evidence

 

[Itachi]

Hes entitled to his opinion, but it's a big statement suggesting 90% of Pakistani muslims backed these kind of actions in which I'm entitled to ask for hard facts.Its like i can paint majority of Indians with the same brush as mohdi as right wing extremists but that would be naive without evidence

You didn't say he is entitled to his opinion.

You stated he should be locked up.

These two are very different scenarios.

 

[saeedhk]

Back your statement with facts!, it's as simple as that

Read more news, live in Pakistan and hopefully you find 90% figure I mentioned understated.

 

[Bigboii]

Ok key board warrior , prove to me like you stated 90% of Pakistani muslims will support the attacker, that is a massive statement which requires substance and not just typical bluff, so I'm all ears

Proof live with Pakistanis we aren't a tolerent bunch )

 

[Bigboii]

So was he showing cartoons of Muhammad PBUH in classroom than I can see it happening

But just holding a discussion I doubt muslims especially in the west go crazy GI joe over the teacher

If it's second case than that's kinda a weird tbh

 

[Manunited18]

Read more news, live in Pakistan and hopefully you find 90% figure I mentioned understated.

I'm British, born and bread in the UK, both my parents are of Pakistani back ground , I have visited pakistan on numerous occasions and what you and your ilk are sputing are baseless allegations without a shred of TRUTH.

 

[Manunited18]

You didn't say he is entitled to his opinion.

You stated he should be locked up.

These two are very different scenarios.

Accusing 90% of the population of supporting extremism without any evidence deserves locking up in my opinion

 

[Manunited18]

Read more news, live in Pakistan and hopefully you find 90% figure I mentioned understated.

I guess living in India? Under the oppressive regime of mohdis has made you bitter towards pakistan

 

[saeedhk]

I'm British, born and bread in the UK, both my parents are of Pakistani back ground , I have visited pakistan on numerous occasions and what you and your ilk are sputing are baseless allegations without a shred of TRUTH.

There you go! You visit and live in your own bubble in Pakistan. Everybody will bend over backwards for you if you have money in Pakistan. You need to see how ordinary Pakistanis live and behave.

Last week, Pakistan Muslims raided a Hindu temple and vandalised it. These sort of extremist incidents happen every day if you follow news report closely. You won’t know about all these if you watch Netflix all day!

 

[saeedhk]

I guess living in India? Under the oppressive regime of mohdis has made you bitter towards pakistan

As a general rule of thumb, if majority of Pakistanis accuse you of being an Indian agent, you are doing something right.

 

[Sirris]

You could both have a real good discussion and both be better for it,

Just forget what happened and both start again without either ever getting personal again.

it's hard to have a good discussion where only one side is laying out all their views in the open while the other is just playing legalism and looking for holes to poke at.

Poster "manunited18" hasn't demonstrated any intellectual integrity to motivate me into humoring him any further.

 

[Gilly]

it's hard to have a good discussion where only one side is laying out all their views in the open while the other is just playing legalism and looking for holes to poke at.

Poster "manunited18" hasn't demonstrated any intellectual integrity to motivate me into humoring him any further.

Both of you should just let it go and have a good discussion without either getting personal, no blame ,no shame just dont get personal and indulge in good discussion.

 

[Thulsa]

Folks this exchange is getting off topic.

On the subject matter at hand, what can prompt a young adult to carry out such a heinous act. I can think of no faith that actively endorses murder so why has this young adult got it so wrong?

 

[Firebat]

Warning: Stick to the topic of the thread. Read the OP and post accordingly.

 

[Bewal Express]

Another horrible incident that damages the image of Muslims and Islam. He got his just deserts.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Horrible incident and quite frankly pathetic debate on the topic.

God has created man and animals around us the only difference between us and animals is that we are blessed with brains, we have been gifted brains to differentiate from what is right and what is wrong.

This is wrong from outset and you don't even need brains to figure out this is wrong.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Read more news, live in Pakistan and hopefully you find 90% figure I mentioned understated.

There you go! You visit and live in your own bubble in Pakistan. Everybody will bend over backwards for you if you have money in Pakistan. You need to see how ordinary Pakistanis live and behave.

Last week, Pakistan Muslims raided a Hindu temple and vandalised it. These sort of extremist incidents happen every day if you follow news report closely. You won’t know about all these if you watch Netflix all day!

As a general rule of thumb, if majority of Pakistanis accuse you of being an Indian agent, you are doing something right.

Pakistan...

Pakistan...

Pakistan...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

By the way saeedbhai, the guy who carried out this dreadful attack was a Chechen in case you missed it.

 

[liam26]

No wonder why Islamophobia is on the rise throughout Europe and Rest of the Non-Muslim World.

Tough times ahead for Muslims living in Europe in the upcoming future.

 

[shah_1]

Sad incident

 

[Star_Coffee]

As i said, making ridiculous posts doesn't change the reality.

Absolutely nothing is ridiculous about hindutva extremists, those are facts.

And your comment is aligning with your far right radicalized views regarding Muslims and Islam.

If you can’t condemn radicalized Hinduism then you have no right to condemn other while finding technical points to support radicalism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Surely you meant to say "90% of people will CONDEMN the act"

This forum doesn't represent the average Pakistani living in Pakistan.

My main point is that instead of breathing a sigh of relief that the attacker wasn't a Pakistani we should be reflecting upon the fact that this ideology which motivated him is widely spread in Pakistan.

Instead of seeing this as a problem of French people we should see it as a problem for anyone who prefers peace and harmony instead of war and hatred.

Today it's a teacher in France tomorrow it could be a politician in Pakistan if he even dares to say that some of the teachings of the Prophet may not be relevant in the modern society.

This may well be true, but is a wider problem for the Muslim world, not one unique to Pakistan. I get that this is a Pakistani forum and that's why people want to discuss Pakistan, but Pakistanis were not involved in this incident. Would probably be more relevant to discuss Muslim reactions in general to kafirs abusing the Prophet PBUH.

 

[Giannis]

I don't trust the French government, the timing of this incident just around Macron's statements on Islam and the recent release of a French citizen from Mali that converted to Islam is a little too sus for me.

 

[Giannis]

As a general rule of thumb, if majority of Pakistanis accuse you of being an Indian agent, you are doing something right.

nah if you're a spy then you need the electric chair and I ain't joking about that

 

[MenInG]

Warning: Stick to the topic of the thread. Read the OP and post accordingly.

Another reminder.

Thread is NOT titled "Lets discuss Pakistani involvement in terrorist attacks"

 

[MenInG]

The man who beheaded a teacher in a street in France waited outside the school and asked pupils to identify his target, anti-terrorism officials say.

The man then posted images on social media of dead victim Samuel Paty, 47, who had shown controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his students.

The attacker later fired at police with an airgun before being shot dead.

Nine people have been arrested and are being investigated for possible links to Islamic extremism.

The attack took place at about 17:00 (15:00 GMT) on Friday near the College du Bois d'Aulne, where Mr Paty taught, in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, some 30km (20 miles) north-west of central Paris.

President Emmanuel Macron said the attack bore all the hallmarks of an "Islamist terrorist attack" and the teacher had been murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

A national tribute will be paid to Mr Paty.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54581827

 

[Tubs]

I don't trust the French government, the timing of this incident just around Macron's statements on Islam and the recent release of a French citizen from Mali that converted to Islam is a little too sus for me.

Lol, cope more.

He tweeted a pic of the severed head, arrests have been made. He was emboldened by Macron's comments too, as said in his tweet.

If true, what are your thoughts on what the guy did?

 

[Bigboii]

The man who beheaded a teacher in a street in France waited outside the school and asked pupils to identify his target, anti-terrorism officials say.

The man then posted images on social media of dead victim Samuel Paty, 47, who had shown controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his students.

The attacker later fired at police with an airgun before being shot dead.

Nine people have been arrested and are being investigated for possible links to Islamic extremism.

The attack took place at about 17:00 (15:00 GMT) on Friday near the College du Bois d'Aulne, where Mr Paty taught, in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, some 30km (20 miles) north-west of central Paris.

President Emmanuel Macron said the attack bore all the hallmarks of an "Islamist terrorist attack" and the teacher had been murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

A national tribute will be paid to Mr Paty.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54581827

So was he showing cartoons of Muhammad PBUH in classroom than I can see it happening

But just holding a discussion I doubt muslims especially in the west go crazy GI joe over the teacher

If it's second case than that's kinda a weird tbh

got it but I think he could have gone to the teacher in private and expressed his concern

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The man who beheaded a teacher in a street in France waited outside the school and asked pupils to identify his target, anti-terrorism officials say.

The man then posted images on social media of dead victim Samuel Paty, 47, who had shown controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to his students.

The attacker later fired at police with an airgun before being shot dead.

Nine people have been arrested and are being investigated for possible links to Islamic extremism.

The attack took place at about 17:00 (15:00 GMT) on Friday near the College du Bois d'Aulne, where Mr Paty taught, in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, some 30km (20 miles) north-west of central Paris.

President Emmanuel Macron said the attack bore all the hallmarks of an "Islamist terrorist attack" and the teacher had been murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

A national tribute will be paid to Mr Paty.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54581827

This is an obvious fudge. The teacher wasn't murdered because he taught freedom of expression, he was executed because he explicitly showed abusive images of the Prophet PBUH to school children. That too, knowing fine well that militant Muslims were already on the warpath to protect the reputation of their Prophet PBUH.

 

[miandadrules]

This is an obvious fudge. The teacher wasn't murdered because he taught freedom of expression, he was executed because he explicitly showed abusive images of the Prophet PBUH to school children. That too, knowing fine well that militant Muslims were already on the warpath to protect the reputation of their Prophet PBUH.

Look at the semantics being used.

Truly, shocking statement.

 

[Vegitto1]

There are laws which protect Jews sentiments. You cannot question the Holocaust, you cannot criticise Jews, doing so gets you labelled as anti-semitic.

It is about time similar laws are introduced to prevent people from insulting Islamic sentiments outside of genuine debate.

These cartoons served no purpose except to insult and incite such reactions.

Just like killing or eating a cow in India would lead to people being offended when it really is just an animal and is eaten worldwide, yet if you are suspected of killing or eating if you get lynched.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Look at the semantics being used.

Truly, shocking statement.

Agreed. Trying to pass off a teacher showing abusive pictures of a holy figure in a school as teaching freedom of expression is semantics at best, and quite shocking.

 

[miandadrules]

Agreed. Trying to pass off a teacher showing abusive pictures of a holy figure in a school as teaching freedom of expression is semantics at best, and quite shocking.

I was talking about your statement.

 

[Thomaskutty]

There are laws which protect Jews sentiments. You cannot question the Holocaust, you cannot criticise Jews, doing so gets you labelled as anti-semitic.

It is about time similar laws are introduced to prevent people from insulting Islamic sentiments outside of genuine debate.

These cartoons served no purpose except to insult and incite such reactions.

Just like killing or eating a cow in India would lead to people being offended when it really is just an animal and is eaten worldwide, yet if you are suspected of killing or eating if you get lynched.

^ Another one more or less blaming the teacher.

I was looking back at the old Charlie Hedo threads and its shocking to see how many posters were blaming the cartoonists rather than the killer and the same ones are here on this thread smh.

 

[Vegitto1]

^ Another one more or less blaming the teacher.

I was looking back at the old Charlie Hedo threads and its shocking to see how many posters were blaming the cartoonists rather than the killer and the same ones are here on this thread smh.

No one is blaming the teacher. We are just stating the obvious.

It is not freedom of speech if you can say whatever you want about my religion and the moment I question yours I get arrested.

And that is exactly what is happening around the world. It’s open season when it comes to criticising Islam, but then at the same time, you can’t question/criticise jews, challenge LGBT nonsense, kill cows for consumption etc.

Freedom of speech cannot be applied to pick and choose scenarios.