Gaza - Discussion Thread

[Kean0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-31628079

As amazed as i was to see it, the BBC last night out of the blue reported on the state of Gaza, 6 months after Israel obliterated it.

The BBC reported on how the entire place is still a massive rubble site and no incoming or outgoing support to rebuild it.

The piece of reported ended on a strange note, stating that Hammas was preparing to go to war with Israel.

What a strange way to report on Gaza.

To me this was a hint to say that Israel is about to go into Gaza yet again to massacre the people and make their lives more of a misery. Watch this space.

 

[Markhor]

Watched that report too. Lyse Doucet is brilliant.

Did that Hamas spokesman really say they were ready to go war again though - IIRC he said they would act to defend themselves if faced with further aggression which is standard talk.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

From the article

In October last year, international donors pledged billions of dollars for the reconstruction of Gaza, but little of the money has arrived. Some express concern that the money will be used by Hamas to rearm and to rebuild tunnels.

So the money is used to build tunnels instead of using them on people?

Hamas sickens me as much as Israel.

And there will be people blindly supporting what Hamas does too.

Hamas is a fraud organization that harms Gaza people as much as Israel.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No shelter.

No electricity.

No way to rebuild properly.

How does Netanyahu sleep at night for what he did?

 

[KingKhanWC]

From the article



So the money is used to build tunnels instead of using them on people?

Hamas sickens me as much as Israel.

And there will be people blindly supporting what Hamas does too.

Hamas is a fraud organization that harms Gaza people as much as Israel.

You do realise most of what comes through those tunnels is food & other household items? The rafah crossing is closed most of the time .

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You do realise most of what comes through those tunnels is food & other household items? The rafah crossing is closed most of the time .

The billions of dollars is super precious and must be used judiciously considering the situation.

From the article and the choice of words, I don't get the impression that's happening.

If Hamas doesn't build tunnels that lead to places where they can attack, its fine to build them.

In the past, I heard a lot about secret tunnels built for attacking Israel.

The need of the hour is is stabilization.

People are hungry and don't have a shelter. They need that.

Revenge and justice can be taken care of later on.

 

[shaz619]

The billions of dollars is super precious and must be used judiciously considering the situation.

From the article and the choice of words, I don't get the impression that's happening.

If Hamas doesn't build tunnels that lead to places where they can attack, its fine to build them.

In the past, I heard a lot about secret tunnels built for attacking Israel.

The need of the hour is is stabilization.

People are hungry and don't have a shelter. They need that.

Revenge and justice can be taken care of later on.

Agree with you, but the shelter they build ought to get destroyed at some point by the Israel. Hamas justification would be to be in a position to defend the little they have, anyhow it's a loss either way because Israel will never be defeated. Palestinian people are going to be oppressed forever. I say that but I did make a donation during the war, felt horrible seeing the dead bodies of children and the destruction that had been caused there

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Agree with you, but the shelter they build ought to get destroyed at some point by the Israel. Hamas justification would be to be in a position to defend the little they have, anyhow it's a loss either way because Israel will never be defeated. Palestinian people are going to be oppressed forever. I say that but I did make a donation during the war, felt horrible seeing the dead bodies of children and the destruction that had been caused there

Agree but the problem is that Hamas does go on the offensive a lot of times.

And Israel responds back by attacking in a disproportionate way.

That's the issue I have with Hamas (leaving aside Israel whose response we all know).

Too much focus on glory and no practicality.

I think that one day its going to break into an all out war where Israel and Hamas are going to fight to the death.

I will get brickbats for this but I think maybe its better for Palestinian people to be under some solid government (whoever it may be) than be "protected" by the crazy no brains Hamas and constantly live under the fear of being bombed.

Issue is too complicated.

Why don't Palestinians simply get out of the place and start a new life elsewhere?

I know its not easy but its a matter of life and death and things look very bleak for them.

 

[shaz619]

Agree but the problem is that Hamas does go on the offensive a lot of times.

And Israel responds back by attacking in a disproportionate way.

That's the issue I have with Hamas (leaving aside Israel whose response we all know).

Too much focus on glory and no practicality.

I think that one day its going to break into an all out war where Israel and Hamas are going to fight to the death.

I will get brickbats for this but I think maybe its better for Palestinian people to be under some solid government (whoever it may be) than be "protected" by the crazy no brains Hamas and constantly live under the fear of being bombed.

Issue is too complicated.

Why don't Palestinians simply get out of the place and start a new life elsewhere?

I know its not easy but its a matter of life and death and things look very bleak for them.

It's their home bro, they don't want to leave it. Same way I'd definitely seek opportunities elsewhere but I'd never abandon my home i want to be able to return to the city I belong to, it's like I have indian and pakistani mates here who most likely are looking for career opportunities in the best but they're still attached to their homes and always go back there in the holidays or whenever they have free time.

Am not so knowledgeable on the whole situation but I've read/heard about conflicting reports as far as Hamas is concerned some say they provoke Isreal who unfortunately respond in a devastating manner others say no such thing and that it is Israel who make the first move. All I know is that in all of this as bad as Hamas may or may not be Israel basically just basically kicked them out their home and chucked them on the street, no.1 how Hamas deals with this is irrelevant because no matter what they do they will not be able to defeat the monster that is Israel and no.2 if they choose to fight back or even provoke Israel who can blame them? some will just sit down and let another walk into their home and take everything away from them others will fight back but the negative here is that hamas just don't have the resources to compete with Israel or protect their people from the Israeli millitary power so I don't really know what to say.

But in this situation if it's true Hamas provoke Israel then I rather them not do that (i get the intention behind it they want their home back) but in the end they're not going to win and thousands of people are going to die so it's not worth it, but i don't know if hamas provoke them or not in the first place surely they too know they can't win but as markhors post said the Hamas spokesman said they would act to defend themselves if faced with further aggression which is standard talk.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It's their home bro, they don't want to leave it. Same way I'd definitely seek opportunities elsewhere but I'd never abandon my home i want to be able to return to the city I belong to, it's like I have indian and pakistani mates here who most likely are looking for career opportunities in the best but they're still attached to their homes and always go back there in the holidays or whenever they have free time.

Am not so knowledgeable on the whole situation but I've read/heard about conflicting reports as far as Hamas is concerned some say they provoke Isreal who unfortunately respond in a devastating manner others say no such thing and that it is Israel who make the first move. All I know is that in all of this as bad as Hamas may or may not be Israel basically just basically kicked them out their home and chucked them on the street, no.1 how Hamas deals with this is irrelevant because no matter what they do they will not be able to defeat the monster that is Israel and no.2 if they choose to fight back or even provoke Israel who can blame them? some will just sit down and let another walk into their home and take everything away from them others will fight back but the negative here is that hamas just don't have the resources to compete with Israel or protect their people from the Israeli millitary power so I don't really know what to say.

But in this situation if it's true Hamas provoke Israel then I rather them not do that (i get the intention behind it they want their home back) but in the end they're not going to win and thousands of people are going to die so it's not worth it, but i don't know if hamas provoke them or not in the first place surely they too know they can't win but as markhors post said the Hamas spokesman said they would act to defend themselves if faced with further aggression which is standard talk.

I know its their home.

In life,

Survival comes first. Before fairness, justice, revenge and what not.

Once survival is there, bare basic standard of living comes next.

Then comes everything else.

Better to be a realist and let your kids have a future than be an idealist and let your kids suffer too.

 

[shaz619]

I know its their home.

In life,

Survival comes first. Before fairness, justice, revenge and what not.

Once survival is there, bare basic standard of living comes next.

Then comes everything else.

Better to be a realist and let your kids have a future than be an idealist and let your kids suffer too.

That's true but it's hard for them to think like that, there are some that have fled but must be difficult to watch the destruction of their home and people. Maybe that's why some refuse to leave instead they try and defend themselves and protect their people and loves ones if only for a short while...... Just look at Mamoon, one of the true heroes of pakistan. Despite all that is happening in pak he refuses to leave there.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That's true but it's hard for them to think like that, there are some that have fled but must be difficult to watch the destruction of their home and people. Maybe that's why some refuse to leave instead they try and defend themselves and protect their people and loves ones if only for a short while...... Just look at Mamoon, one of the true heroes of pakistan. Despite all that is happening in pak he refuses to leave there.

Situation in Pakistan is no where comparable to Gaza.

Totally different situation.

I won't be least surprised if Mamoon left Gaza to save his family.

That guy is a realist through and through.

 

[shaz619]

Situation in Pakistan is no where comparable to Gaza.

Totally different situation.

I won't be least surprised if Mamoon left Gaza to save his family.

That guy is a realist through and through.

Yeah, not the best example But Mamoon is like the Dark Knight himself, he's realist no doubt but with his knowledge of the Pakistani people and his medical ability perhaps he may choose to stay and help save the lives of those who remain in pak given his attachment to the country

Am just trying to look at it from those people in Gaza perspective and the reasons that make them stay although I agree with you that they should leave, where would be the best place to go? and would that country be accepting of them

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yeah, not the best example But Mamoon is like the Dark Knight himself, he's realist no doubt but with his knowledge of the Pakistani people and his medical ability perhaps he may choose to stay and help save the lives of those who remain in pak given his attachment to the country

Am just trying to look at it from those people in Gaza perspective and the reasons that make them stay although I agree with you that they should leave, where would be the best place to go? and would that country be accepting of them

Yeah bro....I can see where you are coming form.

Its hard to move. Very very hard to move.

Dunno which countries are options.

Any stable country should be fine. Go and start a new life.

Anything is better than this misery they are subjected to now. Feel so sad for them. How bad it must be to lose your family members and still have to live?

 

[Saeed]

All Palestinians should be moved to Poland and Russia.

 

[Kean0]

All Palestinians should be moved to Poland and Russia.

I hope that was sarcasm.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/haniyeh-re-elected-chief-palestinian-islamist-group-hamas-2021-08-01/

Ismail Haniyeh has been re-elected as leader of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, officials said on Sunday, cementing his control of the organization which rules the Gaza Strip and has fought multiple violent conflicts with Israel.

Haniyeh, Hamas chief since 2017, has controlled the group's political activities in Gaza, the Israeli-occupied West Bank and the diaspora largely from outside Gaza, splitting his time between Turkey and Qatar for the past two years.

He directed Hamas in an 11-day conflict with Israel in May that left over 250 in Gaza and 13 in Israel dead. An Egyptian-mediated ceasefire has mostly held since.

"Brother Ismail Haniyeh was re-elected as the head of the movement's political office for a second time," one Palestinian official told Reuters following an internal election by party members. His term will last four years.

Aged 58, Haniyeh was the right-hand man to Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in Gaza, before the wheelchair-bound cleric was assassinated in 2004.

Haniyeh led Hamas' entry into politics in 2006, when they were surprise victors in Palestinian parliamentary elections, defeating a divided Fatah party led by President Mahmoud Abbas.

He became prime minister shortly after the January 2006 victory, but Hamas - which is deemed a terrorist organisation by the United States, Israel and the European Union - was shunned by the international community.

Following a brief civil war, Hamas seized Gaza from the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority, which has limited self-rule in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, in 2007. Israel has led a blockade of Gaza since then, citing threats from Hamas.

Haniyeh's victory caps internal elections that also saw the group's Gaza chief, Yehya Al-Sinwar, win a second term in March.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-warns-israel-another-war-is-inevitable-unless-it-ends-occupation-of-palestine-12437236

Hamas has warned Israel that another war is inevitable unless its occupation of Palestine ends and the dire humanitarian crisis in Gaza is resolved.

Speaking exclusively to Sky News, in the first interview since mediation talks in Egypt ended, a senior Hamas official said that the fight will continue "with all means", until an independent Palestinian state is established.

"We can defeat Israel, we can target Israel, we have targeted Israel many times," Dr Ghazi Hamad said.

"Israel has stolen my land. We are the victims. You have to understand, we are the victims of the occupation. We don't trust Israel. We don't believe Israel is interested in peace."

Dr Hamad said he refused to recognise the state of Israel and didn't rule out another conflict:

"Everything is open. Hamas tries to avoid wars, we try to protect our people, we try to give people a good life here, but the occupation all the time is right in front of my eyes."

In recent days, senior Hamas leadership has been in neighbouring Egypt, negotiating a longer ceasefire with Israel.

The talks have stalled over the details of a prisoner exchange - Hamas is demanding hundreds of Palestinians be released, in return for two living Israelis and the bodies of two dead soldiers.

Israel and Gaza have fought four wars since 2006.

Both sides are regrouping after the most recent eleven-day conflict in May which killed at least 243 people in Gaza and 12 in Israel.

More than a hundred of those were women and children, all of them Palestinians except for two.

"Ok we can be killed, they can come and destroy everything, but at the same time Israel will never see the stability unless Palestinians see stability and security," Dr Hamad told Sky News.

"It is our right, our national right (to strike Israel). Israel should understand that sooner or later we will win, because we are the owners of this land."

Around 1.6 million people live in Gaza - half of those are children - while roughly 50% of the adult population is unemployed, almost all the water is undrinkable and 64% live in extreme poverty.

Israel blames Hamas for inciting violence by firing rockets into southern Israel and claims it strikes back only in self-defence.

Dr Hamad's threats to Israel undermine recent optimism, particularly in Palestinian media, that an agreement could be reached between the two sides to extend the ceasefire.

The Israeli coalition government is fragile, and Prime Minister Naftali Bennett knows a prisoner swap will be criticised heavily by the right wing of his party.

It's also thought the Israeli government could be buying time to ensure the state budget receives enough support to pass through the Knesset next month.

But although both sides claim they want peace, and say an escalation in violence wouldn't be in their interests, the political gap between the two still appears to be wide.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-minister-meets-with-palestinian-president-tweet-2021-12-29/

An Israeli was wounded in a shooting attack on the Gaza border on Wednesday, the military said, after a rare visit to Israel by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas drew condemnation from the enclave's Hamas rulers.

The Israeli military said it responded to the shooting with tank fire, targeting Hamas posts in the northern Gaza Strip. Gaza health officials said three Palestinian farmers were wounded.

Israel's Defence Minister Benny Gantz hosted Abbas in his home late on Tuesday, the Western-backed Palestinian leader's first such visit to Israel in more than a decade, although it signalled few prospects for any resumption of long-stalled peace negotiations.

Following their talks, the Israeli Defence Ministry announced a series of what it described as "confidence-building measures" that would ease the entry of hundreds of Palestinian business people to Israel.

In Gaza, Hazem Qassem, a Hamas spokesman, said that by meeting Gantz, Abbas was "deepening Palestinian political divisions" and encouraging accommodation with "the occupation", a term the Islamist militant group uses to describe Israel.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the shooting attack from Gaza, which the Israeli military said slightly wounded the civilian. The border has been largely quiet since an 11-day war between Israel and Gaza militants in May.

Abbas and Gantz last met in August, in the occupied West Bank. Palestinian official Hussein al-Sheikh said that at Tuesday's talks they discussed the "importance of creating a political horizon" for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Gantz, in his summation of the meeting on Twitter, made no mention of a peace process, stalled since 2014 after U.S.-backed talks collapsed. Palestinians seek to establish a state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

"We discussed the implementation of economic and civilian measures, and emphasised the importance of deepening security coordination and preventing terror and violence - for the well-being of both Israelis and Palestinians," Gantz wrote.

Israel's multi-party government is deeply divided over the statehood issue. Palestinian rivalries remain strong, with Hamas, which has fought four wars with Israel, running the Gaza Strip.

In a move that could ease travel for thousands of Palestinians, the Defence Ministry said Gantz approved registration as West Bank residents for some 6,000 people who had been living in the territory, captured by Israel in a 1967 war, without official status.

Another 3,500 people from Gaza would also receive residency documentation, the ministry said.

The meeting followed several Palestinian attacks on Israelis in recent weeks in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Palestinians also complain of attacks by Israeli settlers.

 

[MenInG]

GAZA/JERUSALEM, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Palestinian militants in Gaza fired two rockets toward the Mediterranean Sea on Saturday which exploded off the coast of Tel Aviv and prompted retaliatory strikes, Israel said.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility from Gaza militants for the rocket firing or comment from Hamas, the Islamist armed group that rules the coastal Palestinian enclave.

Hamas has occasionally test-fired rockets, launching them toward the sea. Hamas-affiliated Paltimes news website said, however, that Saturday's launch was probably a malfunction.

After dark fell, Israel's military said it struck at "terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip".
Hamas Radio said some of the group's security posts and a training camp were struck by Israeli aircraft and tanks. There were no casualties.

In a rare countermeasure, Hamas’s Aqsa TV said militants fired two surface-to-air missiles towards Israeli planes. Israel’s military confirmed that a missile had been launched at one of its planes, which was unscathed.

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem blamed Israel for the escalation.

The Israel-Gaza frontier has been largely quiet since an 11-day war in May. But on Wednesday, gunfire from Gaza that wounded an Israeli civilian drew tank fire from the Israeli military, wounding three Palestinians.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-off-tel-aviv-coast-military-says-2022-01-01/