Gerrard or Lampard?

ataullah

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Who would u have in ur team? Lampard played 160 odd games in a row, a record for the premiership. Gerrard is the main man for liverpool. Tough choice.
 
Gerrard

without a doubt (but then again, i have a heavy bias )
 
lampard..the guy is much more involved than gerrard...if u watch the games u would know

lampard is a top all round player..just edges it for me
 
HAFRIDI said:
lampard..the guy is much more involved than gerrard...if u watch the games u would know

lampard is a top all round player..just edges it for me


what is that supposed to mean?
 
z10 said:
what is that supposed to mean?

haha..i was talking in general...its evident gerrard is not as all round as lampard...lampard is much more involved...as is gerrard...but its tough and i go with lampard.

Theyre both players who are good shooters...anyone have the stats for shot accuracy..pass completetion % etc

would be intresing to see
 
well i am biased

and not about to change my opinion either
 
HAFRIDI said:
haha..i was talking in general...its evident gerrard is not as all round as lampard...lampard is much more involved...as is gerrard...but its tough and i go with lampard.

Theyre both players who are good shooters...anyone have the stats for shot accuracy..pass completetion % etc

would be intresing to see

That is absolute rubbish - Gerrard is imo the most all round mifielder in the Prem if not europe! The guy is good defensively and when attacking - he is a proper engine in midfield

Lampard is a good player BUT he is pretty limited, he has a very good shot and is a good passer of the ball BUt thats pretty much where it ends! He has the added luxury of playing alongside Makelele who just sits back and does all the defensive and the "uglier" side of the game, whilst Lampard cracks a 25 yarder and claims all the applause

Every day of the week i would pick Gerrard ahead of Lampard - EVERY DAY
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
That is absolute rubbish - Gerrard is imo the most all round mifielder in the Prem if not europe! The guy is good defensively and when attacking - he is a proper engine in midfield

Lampard is a good player BUT he is pretty limited, he has a very good shot and is a good passer of the ball BUt thats pretty much where it ends! He has the added luxury of playing alongside Makelele who just sits back and does all the defensive and the "uglier" side of the game, whilst Lampard cracks a 25 yarder and claims all the applause

Every day of the week i would pick Gerrard ahead of Lampard - EVERY DAY

well...everyone has their own opinion, gerrard is class but because one has to be chosen i pick lampard..why..because imo he has a greater impact on the team...hes the most improved player i have seen for a while...when he picked up chelsea became a real force with their new signings as well.

He has a great story how he became a top player...playing for west ham as a player who no one knew about...came to chelsea...hardly ever started...mostly a sub and had a rep to come of the bench late on and score a bit like our "ole".

From there to now...what a player..the guy has changed completely..the west ham fans must be losing a lot of sleep over him!
 
Gerrard.

Lampard is a very limited player-who scores lots of penalties!
 
HAFRIDI said:
well...everyone has their own opinion, gerrard is class but because one has to be chosen i pick lampard..why..because imo he has a greater impact on the team...hes the most improved player i have seen for a while...when he picked up chelsea became a real force with their new signings as well.

He has a great story how he became a top player...playing for west ham as a player who no one knew about...came to chelsea...hardly ever started...mostly a sub and had a rep to come of the bench late on and score a bit like our "ole".

From there to now...what a player..the guy has changed completely..the west ham fans must be losing a lot of sleep over him!


along with Joe Cole, Carrick and Defoe :12:
 
anyone remember julian dicks ha ha ha ha

OXY it was only an "s" :D :12:
 
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i would pik gerrard because he is more than a midfielder, he defends and attacks where as lampard can only attack and has the luxury of world class player around him.
 
I dont think Lampard could produce what Gerrard produces if he was in the Liverpool team, but I think Gerrard could produce everything and more that Lampard produces if he was in the Chelsea team
 
Waqar's inswinging yorker said:
xavi! - very underrated player.

If i was forced to choose then it would be gerrard
Xavi is a better than Lampard but he doesnt have the ability to boss midfield.. He would be eaten alive in the premiership if he ever chose to play here.. hes only really started playing well under Rijakaard.. he was poor under Charlie Rexach, Van Gaal etc.. a better player in the same mould is Pirlo
 
xavi wasnt poor under rexach - he was an underachiever then. Also there he wasnt given the freedom to roam forward and link midfield to attack like he has past 18 months he has been simply sensational.

What was england's midfield against spain when spain won 1-0 through del horno goal? i know lamps played - was gerrard there as well coz NO one could get the ball off xavi, he bossed the game and the midfield.

Class players can and will adapt and xavi could do the same - has xabi alonso been a flop over here? NO, exactly and both are pretty similar players, if anything xavi is more attacking
 
z10 said:
i would have Xabi Alonso ahead of Xavi


interesting statement there z10 - any particular reason why? i think/hope spain play both xabi alonso/xavi( if it) at the wc - those two could create a lethal central midfield pairing - then vicente/joaquin on the wings isnt too bad either
 
Alonso can play the holding role well too so him and Xavi would indeed be lethal, as are him and Stevie G (when he plays in the middle).
 
They are both now coming to the end of their careers - so who has had the better career and been more valuable to their team?

Lampard has scored more goals (for both club and country) and won more trophies than Gerrard has but most will still want Gerrard in their team if they had to choose.
 
Lampard without a doubt not even a debate really.

The guy at one stage scored 20 goals a season for 6 consecutive years.

Call me when Gerrard achieves that. Let alone 200 goals from midfield.
Lampard is the only English player i would have in my midfield and he competes with the likes of Zidane, Maradona etc. He is up there as well, he is not a genius like these two, but in terms of guts and determination he is there. Big match temperament.
 
The Lampard debate reminds me of the Kallis debate in a way. If Lampard was a Man Utd or Liverpool player would we be having this debate? I dont think so.

Same applies with Kallis, if he was from England or Australia would his greatness be in question? Food for thought
 
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At his peak, Gerrard was the better player. More dynamic, more influential and more inspirational (more of a match-winner). Over their careers, Lampard has been the far better player, shown greater consistency and has been able to adapt his game as he has got older.
 
Gerrard is one of the most gifted English player of his generation. Gazza, Scholes, Gerrard, Rooney, and Wilshere are the most naturally gifted English players I've seen.

The great thing about Gerrard is that, it's only now that he is adapting a less involved role because he doesn't have the same engine about him. Lampard adapted himself as an attacking midfielder very early and he was a cog in Chelsea whereas Gerrards been the heart, soul and the engine for Liverpool.

Now they play very contrasting roles with Gerrard preferring to sit deeper but Lampard lurking around outside the box still but Gerrard is still the more complete player. That being said, Lampard is very good at what he does.

Lol at the guy comparing Lampard to Maradona and Zidane. If only you had watched those players you wouldn't have said something that ridiculous.

Lampard is the Kallis in the present day South African batting line up but Gerrard was the Tendulkar in the Indian batting line up of the 90s.
 
What a bunch of nonsense. Did i say he played a similar role to Zidane or Maradona, i clearly stated he is up there with midfield greats of the game. He is not a genius, but in terms of guts and determination including being a match winner i put him up there.

I'm not exactly sure where this nonsense comes from that Gerrard "at his peak" was better than Lampard especially when you take into account that Steven is younger than Lampard.

On Sky they were doing stats and comparing Fabregas to other midfielders in the EPL during his time at Arsenal.
Cesc had a pass completion rate of 81%, Gerrard was 80% and Lampard had 83.
Lampard had over 70 assists in the EPL alone no midfielder came even close to that, Gerrard was not even in the top 5. I think it was Rosicky, Fabregas, Modric and they were all under 50.
Again in terms of key passes per game Lampard was on top with Cesc 2nd.

I dont even have to mention goals scored as that would embarrass everyone.
 
What a bunch of nonsense. Did i say he played a similar role to Zidane or Maradona, i clearly stated he is up there with midfield greats of the game. He is not a genius, but in terms of guts and determination including being a match winner i put him up there.

I'm not exactly sure where this nonsense comes from that Gerrard "at his peak" was better than Lampard especially when you take into account that Steven is younger than Lampard.

On Sky they were doing stats and comparing Fabregas to other midfielders in the EPL during his time at Arsenal.
Cesc had a pass completion rate of 81%, Gerrard was 80% and Lampard had 83.
Lampard had over 70 assists in the EPL alone no midfielder came even close to that, Gerrard was not even in the top 5. I think it was Rosicky, Fabregas, Modric and they were all under 50.
Again in terms of key passes per game Lampard was on top with Cesc 2nd.

I dont even have to mention goals scored as that would embarrass everyone.

Guts, determination, match winner are terms most people would associate with Gerrard considering he has a final named after him. Dragged his team single-handedly to qualify out of the group stages in the CL that Liverpool won.

At his peak implies Gerrard was the most complete player will a lot more skills than Lampard. Lampard has never had to adapt because he has always been limited and could never play as anything other than an AM. Which is why the Gerrard and Lamps combo never worked for England.

Now the second piece of rubbish, I'd like to know the season in which Lamps got 70 assists in the EPL? That is hilarious and not even plausible. Now I'll tell you this. In EPL overall, Giggs has the most assists with 130. Lamps is second with 93 (apparently 70 of which he got in 1 season according to you) and Gerrard is third with 85. So yes, Gerrard has 8 less assists and he has played about a 100 less games than Lampard. Last season, he got 9 in 36 games. That's 1 every 4 games which means that if Gerrard plays the same number of games as Lamps he will have about another 25 assists.

We can talk about goals but let's talk about their defensive games. Gerard last year made 2.4 tackles per game and had 1.4 interceptions per game. In comparison, Lampard made 1.2 tackles per game with 0.9 interceptions per game.

Let's again talk about passing. Last season, Lampard had 1 assist compared to Gerrard's 9. Gerrard was making 2.6 key passes per game while Lampard could only make 1.1. Lampard was making 42.9 passes per game whereas Gerrard was 66.3 passes per game. Their pass success rate was as follows:

Lampard: 81.9%
Gerrard: 85.5%

Gerrard has an amazing range of passing but no one seems to buy into that. He had the highest number of accurate long ball passes per game with 8.4% and then from 2nd to 7th place are a bunch of goalkeepers. Lampard by comparison made 3.2 accurate long ball passes per game.

Here is a visual of that long range passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDJyGYG8EqQ

Gerrard last year played in a deep lying central midfield role and he managed to score 9 goals. That figure again is higher than any other deep lying midfielder in the league. Arteta by comparison had 6 goals.

Now, I believe Lampard is a very good player and great at what he does but Gerrard is easily one of the most complete midfielders to have played the game. Lampard knows his limitations and works well within his limitations just like Kallis doesn't go around trying to bat like Tendulkar.

You can go about rating players by the number of goals they scored but then you will find Gerd Muller to be better than Maradona and Zidane. Talking of Zidane and Maradona, don't put Lampard in the same league as them. That really is an embarrassment. I wouldn't even put Gerrard in that league, he is probably a league below while Lampard is a a couple more leagues below that. Maradona and Zizou are both world cup winners for one. Secondly, at various stages of their life Maradona and Zizou controlled the whole team with the way they played and everyone else played around them. Lampard doesn't even get into the England line up. In fact, let's look at this way. Maradona and Zizou would both get into an all time Argentina and France XI (both superior than England) while Lampard would definitely not make it into an all-time England XI.
 
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What a bunch of nonsense. Did i say he played a similar role to Zidane or Maradona, i clearly stated he is up there with midfield greats of the game. He is not a genius, but in terms of guts and determination including being a match winner i put him up there.

I'm not exactly sure where this nonsense comes from that Gerrard "at his peak" was better than Lampard especially when you take into account that Steven is younger than Lampard.

On Sky they were doing stats and comparing Fabregas to other midfielders in the EPL during his time at Arsenal.
Cesc had a pass completion rate of 81%, Gerrard was 80% and Lampard had 83.
Lampard had over 70 assists in the EPL alone no midfielder came even close to that, Gerrard was not even in the top 5. I think it was Rosicky, Fabregas, Modric and they were all under 50.
Again in terms of key passes per game Lampard was on top with Cesc 2nd.

I dont even have to mention goals scored as that would embarrass everyone.

How many big finals Lampard won for you lot?
 
lampard won more trophies

gerrard was the better player although lampard was more adapatable as a team player whereas with gerrard the team flows through him.

His ideal role would be in front of the back four like a pirlo
 
I would pick Lampard, but I think Gerard is possibly the better player.
 
Guts, determination, match winner are terms most people would associate with Gerrard considering he has a final named after him. Dragged his team single-handedly to qualify out of the group stages in the CL that Liverpool won.

At his peak implies Gerrard was the most complete player will a lot more skills than Lampard. Lampard has never had to adapt because he has always been limited and could never play as anything other than an AM. Which is why the Gerrard and Lamps combo never worked for England.

Now the second piece of rubbish, I'd like to know the season in which Lamps got 70 assists in the EPL? That is hilarious and not even plausible. Now I'll tell you this. In EPL overall, Giggs has the most assists with 130. Lamps is second with 93 (apparently 70 of which he got in 1 season according to you) and Gerrard is third with 85. So yes, Gerrard has 8 less assists and he has played about a 100 less games than Lampard. Last season, he got 9 in 36 games. That's 1 every 4 games which means that if Gerrard plays the same number of games as Lamps he will have about another 25 assists.

We can talk about goals but let's talk about their defensive games. Gerard last year made 2.4 tackles per game and had 1.4 interceptions per game. In comparison, Lampard made 1.2 tackles per game with 0.9 interceptions per game.

Let's again talk about passing. Last season, Lampard had 1 assist compared to Gerrard's 9. Gerrard was making 2.6 key passes per game while Lampard could only make 1.1. Lampard was making 42.9 passes per game whereas Gerrard was 66.3 passes per game. Their pass success rate was as follows:

Lampard: 81.9%
Gerrard: 85.5%

Gerrard has an amazing range of passing but no one seems to buy into that. He had the highest number of accurate long ball passes per game with 8.4% and then from 2nd to 7th place are a bunch of goalkeepers. Lampard by comparison made 3.2 accurate long ball passes per game.

Here is a visual of that long range passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDJyGYG8EqQ

Gerrard last year played in a deep lying central midfield role and he managed to score 9 goals. That figure again is higher than any other deep lying midfielder in the league. Arteta by comparison had 6 goals.

Now, I believe Lampard is a very good player and great at what he does but Gerrard is easily one of the most complete midfielders to have played the game. Lampard knows his limitations and works well within his limitations just like Kallis doesn't go around trying to bat like Tendulkar.

You can go about rating players by the number of goals they scored but then you will find Gerd Muller to be better than Maradona and Zidane. Talking of Zidane and Maradona, don't put Lampard in the same league as them. That really is an embarrassment. I wouldn't even put Gerrard in that league, he is probably a league below while Lampard is a a couple more leagues below that. Maradona and Zizou are both world cup winners for one. Secondly, at various stages of their life Maradona and Zizou controlled the whole team with the way they played and everyone else played around them. Lampard doesn't even get into the England line up. In fact, let's look at this way. Maradona and Zizou would both get into an all time Argentina and France XI (both superior than England) while Lampard would definitely not make it into an all-time England XI.

your comprehension skills are poor, if not nonexistent.
Its always best to read before shooting your mouth off. At what stage did i say Lampard made 70 assists in one season?
Does that even make sense to you or you're just a troll?

I clearly stated that SKY did stats on Fabregas' time at Arsenal and who was the most influential midfielder during that period. I think thats between 2004-2010 before he left for Barcelona. No one was anywhere near Lampard in terms of goals, assists, key passes per game etc.

Lampard scored 15 goals in just 21 league starts last year, the guy is 35 by the way. Gerrard is not fit enough to lace his boots.

Gerrard who is younger than Super Frank could only manage a paltry 9 goals in 36 starts.
For your info. Lampard has been playing in the double pivot for the past two seasons. I'm not sure were you get your nonsense from "Lampard cant adapt his game" and all that. Lamps plays deeper nowadays. The fact that you're comparing a 35 year old stats to a player thats 3 years younger than him is a true testament on how good Frank really is. He single handedly put us in the Champions League last year, scored 2 crucial goals against Villa to secure Champions League football, we were trailling in that game too. The likes of Juan Mata, Oscar and Hazard were too fatigued during the later part of the season. Thats how good Frank is.
 
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How many big finals Lampard won for you lot?

he won us the Champions League, working his socks off along Mikel against Barcelona. We were 2-0 down in the semi-final John Terry having recieved a red card. He made a lovely through ball for Ramirez before half time and we were 2-1 down and 2-2 on aggregate with an advantage of an away goal. He was brilliant in the final in Munich as well.

I'm not even going to mention the FA cups, League Cup the EPL itself that he won on his own.
We were defensively solid but he was our top goal scorer before Drogba settled. If you remember there were chants "boring boring Chelsea" during the early stages of the Roman era. We would score 1-0 and shut up shop, thats how good we were defensively. Lampard was scoring those vital goals in 1-0 and 2-1 wins. Chelsea have the best defensive record ever in Europe in a season, i think we conceded 16 goals in 38 League games.

So i'm not sure how this myth came about that Lampard cant adapt his game, that is BS
 
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your comprehension skills are poor, if not nonexistent.
Its always best to read before shooting your mouth off. At what stage did i say Lampard made 70 assists in one season?
Does that even make sense to you or you're just a troll?

I clearly stated that SKY did stats on Fabregas' time at Arsenal and who was the most influential midfielder during that period. I think thats between 2004-2010 before he left for Barcelona. No one was anywhere near Lampard in terms of goals, assists, key passes per game etc.

Lampard scored 15 goals in just 21 league starts last year, the guy is 35 by the way. Gerrard is not fit enough to lace his boots.

Gerrard who is younger than Super Frank could only manage a paltry 9 goals in 36 starts.
For your info. Lampard has been playing in the double pivot for the past two seasons. I'm not sure were you get your nonsense from "Lampard cant adapt his game" and all that. Lamps plays deeper nowadays. The fact that you're comparing a 35 year old stats to a player thats 3 years younger than him is a true testament on how good Frank really is. He single handedly put us in the Champions League last year, scored 2 crucial goals against Villa to secure Champions League football, we were trailling in that game too. The likes of Juan Mata, Oscar and Hazard were too fatigued during the later part of the season. Thats how good Frank is.

You're right fat Frank is the greatest thing sliced bread. I don't talk to people that resort to petty insults because they themselves have trouble stringing comprehensible sentences together. Whatever you may have meant by the assists bull crap you posted I clearly showed it was a lie. Gerrard is third in assists having played a 100 games less than Fat Frank.

Anyway all you're talking about is goals goals goals but I gave you stats to show you which one of them is a more complete player. Even Maxi Rodriguez was a good goal poacher. In fact, Maxi is the type of player I'd compare to Fat Frank. Lampard definitely does not play as a deep lying playmaker that is an outright lie.

Also, I talk facts so here's another one for you. Gerrard is 2 years younger not 3. Gerrard has captained England if Lampard was such a god-sent player it's a pity England never tried to build a team around him.

Anyway, good luck in the future communicating with people. And don't call him Super Frank, as there is no such thing, there is only Super Mario.
 
he won us the Champions League, working his socks off along Mikel against Barcelona. We were 2-0 down in the semi-final John Terry having recieved a red card. He made a lovely through ball for Ramirez before half time and we were 2-1 down and 2-2 on aggregate with an advantage of an away goal. He was brilliant in the final in Munich as well.

I'm not even going to mention the FA cups, League Cup the EPL itself that he won on his own.
We were defensively solid but he was our top goal scorer before Drogba settled. If you remember there were chants "boring boring Chelsea" during the early stages of the Roman era. We would score 1-0 and shut up shop, thats how good we were defensively. Lampard was scoring those vital goals in 1-0 and 2-1 wins. Chelsea have the best defensive record ever in Europe in a season, i think we conceded 16 goals in 38 League games.

So i'm not sure how this myth came about that Lampard cant adapt his game, that is BS

Another load of bull crap. You had Makelele, Terry and Carvalho. That's why your defence was the best not because Lampard was making last-ditch tackles or clearing headers of the goal-line.
 
Lampard is an outstandingly consistent and quality player, but for me Gerrard has the big match pedigree and the natural leadership skills. On his day I would have taken Gerrard over pretty much any CM in the world. Amazing talent.
 
You're right fat Frank is the greatest thing sliced bread. I don't talk to people that resort to petty insults because they themselves have trouble stringing comprehensible sentences together. Whatever you may have meant by the assists bull crap you posted I clearly showed it was a *lie*. Gerrard is third in assists having played a 100 games less than Fat Frank.
what lie? You said so yourself Gerrard is 3rd on the all time assists list, so who do you think is #2?
Sky sports recieve their stats and data from Opta, you know what Opta is right?
Fabregas made his debut for Arsenal in 2003 and left for Barcelona in 2011, not between 2004-2010 which i made an error. Otherwise during that period Lampard made 70 assists in the League, no one came even close. He was even 2nd for the FIFA Ballorn Dor award in 05. His best year @Chelsea was in 09 scoring 22 goals in the League and racking up 17 assists.
Anyway all you're talking about is goals goals goals but I gave you stats to show you which one of them is a more complete player. Even Maxi Rodriguez was a good goal poacher. In fact, Maxi is the type of player I'd compare to Fat Frank. Lampard definitely does not play as a deep lying playmaker that is an outright lie.
the only liar here is you and in denial.
Chelsea employ a 4-2-3-1 formation in which Juan Mata is our number 10 exchanging position with Hazard and Oscar.
Lampard plays in the pivot behind the band of 3 next to Mikel. Mikel operates as a defensive midfielder and Lamps pulls the string from deep and makes late runs in the box. You should do yourself a favour and watch Chelsea games sometime. That will do you a load of good before calling people liars.
 
Another load of bull crap. You had Makelele, Terry and Carvalho. That's why your defence was the best not because Lampard was making last-ditch tackles or clearing headers of the goal-line.

can you quote where it was stated that Lampard was making "last-ditch tackles"?
Its always best to read before hitting the reply key, otherwise you end up making a donkey of yourself.
 
he won us the Champions League, working his socks off along Mikel against Barcelona. We were 2-0 down in the semi-final John Terry having recieved a red card. He made a lovely through ball for Ramirez before half time and we were 2-1 down and 2-2 on aggregate with an advantage of an away goal. He was brilliant in the final in Munich as well.

I'm not even going to mention the FA cups, League Cup the EPL itself that he won on his own.
We were defensively solid but he was our top goal scorer before Drogba settled. If you remember there were chants "boring boring Chelsea" during the early stages of the Roman era. We would score 1-0 and shut up shop, thats how good we were defensively. Lampard was scoring those vital goals in 1-0 and 2-1 wins. Chelsea have the best defensive record ever in Europe in a season, i think we conceded 16 goals in 38 League games.

So i'm not sure how this myth came about that Lampard cant adapt his game, that is BS

Tell me the goals he scored in big finals.

Dorgba scored all important goals for you while Lampard did the donkey work.
 
Another load of bull crap. You had Makelele, Terry and Carvalho. That's why your defence was the best not because Lampard was making last-ditch tackles or clearing headers of the goal-line.

Those two did top job for Chlesea. Terry was another hack who was made to look better then he really was by the non English players in the Chelsea team.
 
Tell me the goals he scored in big finals.

Dorgba scored all important goals for you while Lampard did the donkey work.

Lampard scored in the UEFA final in 2008, scored in the semis against Liverpool having lost his mom less than 24 hours, incredible human being.
 
Quite remarkable really - Lampard is the only midfielder in the top 15 all time Premier League goal scorers list.

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Lampard without a doubt. Gerrard is a good player too but Lampard has adapted much better as he got older, Gerrard for Liverpool has become the proverbial white elephant that nobody wants to kick out.
 
Well they've both now hung up their boots.

Frank Lampard v Steven Gerrard: Legends for club and country, but who was better?


Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard?

Ask a blue and they will tell you Lampard is a Chelsea legend, ask a red and they will say Gerrard lives on forever in Liverpool folklore.

They were arguably two of their generation's best midfielders, the trajectories of their careers and similar playing styles meaning they were forever compared.

Now, with both having brought an end to trophy-laden careers, BBC Sport looks to tackle the debate on who was better one last time - and gives you the chance to cast your vote.

_92503786_lampsgerrardstat.png


Rest of the article here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38023336
 
For me it has to be Gerrard.

He was the heartbeat of the Liverpool team.
 
Peak lampard's positioning, dribbling, vision and making key passes were second to none. When it comes to linking midfield play with the striker lampard is the best linking player in english football.But still Gerrard was something special

What he had done for Liverpool football was unmatchable,He literally carried the team on his shoulders for almost a decade. He was the best player, captain, the talisman of the team

And gerrard is a better footballing idol ,same club since his boyhood, did everything he could for the club the fans and teammates

So gerrard for me
 
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