Google fires 20 more workers after firing 28 staff members initially for their protests against cloud contract with Israel [Update on post#139]

[BouncerGuy]

Isn’t X already banned in Pakistan?

But X is not google though. Google is everywhere. gmail, play store etc. No boycott for these apps?

 

[globetrotter]

Also these sacked employees have an option to open new software company to do business only with Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia etc.

 

[globetrotter]

Also these sacked employees have an option to open new software company to do business only with Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia etc.

Just to tease Israel n Google

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I predict that Google's downfall will start from this idiocrasy.

 

[JaDed]

I predict that Google's downfall will start from this idiocrasy.

Google has been in downward spiral since OpenAI, this if anything gives it some cash to go on and make some money from cloud where they are distant 3rd inspite of having a better product than first 2(personal opinion).

 

[cricketjoshila]

Google has been in downward spiral since OpenAI, this if anything gives it some cash to go on and make some money from cloud where they are distant 3rd inspite of having a better product than first 2(personal opinion).

Which are top 2?

 

[IndoorCricket]

Which are top 2?

AWS and Azure. GCP has worst customer support

 

[Cricket Warrior]

In my opinion google has just overreacted on this issue

 

[rpant_gabba]

In my opinion google has just overreacted on this issue

Sure, tolerate a bunch of people (as. well meaning as they might be) throwing a toddler like tantrum in the bosses office should be excused.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Google has been in downward spiral since OpenAI, this if anything gives it some cash to go on and make some money from cloud where they are distant 3rd inspite of having a better product than first 2(personal opinion).

Google i still vastly profitable because of its search/ ad revenue model. LLM's have been degrading over time. Maybe GPt-5 can fix this.

 

[JaDed]

Coming here after the layoff news, spineless, Pichai might be the richest CEO non founder but he cannot hold a candle to Satya Nadella.

Proving once again why Satya Nadela is the only exception of a great Indian CEO who is not a founder.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Coming here after the layoff news, spineless, Pichai might be the richest CEO non founder but he cannot hold a candle to Satya Nadella.

Proving once again why Satya Nadela is the only exception of a great Indian CEO who is not a founder.

Google also has a history of killing their own products. There is a twitter handle whose sole purpose is to catalog products killed by google.

 

[JaDed]

Google also has a history of killing their own products. There is a twitter handle whose sole purpose is to catalog products killed by google.

Yeah i know about them, killed by google, google graveyard

 

[Local.Dada]

Google also has a history of killing their own products. There is a twitter handle whose sole purpose is to catalog products killed by google.

Who can forget Orkut lol. I think it was owned by Google too or had some affiliation to it.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Coming here after the layoff news, spineless, Pichai might be the richest CEO non founder but he cannot hold a candle to Satya Nadella.

Proving once again why Satya Nadela is the only exception of a great Indian CEO who is not a founder.

Satya is a no nonsense guy. He knows how to handle issues unlike Pichai who is soft and a bit Woke. Good to see Sundar growing a spine and not to mix business with politics.

No one was holding those employees forcibly to work at Google. They can always leave if they don't like the company for whatever reason.

 

[JaDed]

Satya is a no nonsense guy. He knows how to handle issues unlike Pichai who is soft and a bit Woke. Good to see Sundar growing a spine and not to mix business with politics.

No one was holding those employees forcibly to work at Google. They can always leave if they don't like the company for whatever reason.

I’m talking about the Python and Flutter Layoffs.
His plan is to become the richest CEO non founder clearly.

Nadella is also an innovator, he knows how to balance Enterprise and Consumer softwares, Azure Open AI all his big bets have paid off and Activision will as well.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Former Google workers fired for protesting Israel deal file complaint claiming protected speech

Dozens of former Google workers filed a complaint with the US National Labor Relations Board on Tuesday after they were fired or placed on administrative leave last month for protesting the company’s cloud-computing contract with Israel’s government.

The complaint accuses Google of retaliating against the workers for their “protected concerted activity, namely, participation (or perceived participation) in a peaceful, non-disruptive protest that was directly and explicitly connected to their terms and conditions of work.”

The workers are seeking reinstatement of their jobs and back pay, according to No Tech for Apartheid, a group made up in part by Google and Amazon workers that organized last month’s protest.

A Google spokesperson said in a statement that the protests were “a very clear case of employees disrupting and occupying work spaces, and making other employees feel threatened and unsafe.”

“By any standard, their behavior was completely unacceptable – and widely seen as such,” the spokesperson said. “We carefully confirmed and reconfirmed that every single person whose employment was terminated was directly and definitively involved in disruption inside our buildings. We are confident in our position and stand by the actions we’ve taken.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/01/tech/google-workers-nlrb-complaint-israeli-palestinian-protest/index.html

 

[The Bald Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787517880738668685

 

[Champ_Pal]

No company in their right mind will hire these activists again.

Good luck.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

While their own careers might be made more difficult in the US, they have performed a service by bringing the world's attention to Google's insidious links to the Israeli military machine which has been accused of genocide in Gaza. We should applaud their selfless sacrifice to bringing light on this nefarious partnership.

 

[Mamoon]

The funniest part is seeing people posting on social media on how they have boycotted Coke and Pepsi due to their pro Israel stance and they are also criticizing Google.

They are performing this great service for the ummah using their……Android phones.

 

[Mamoon]

While their own careers might be made more difficult in the US, they have performed a service by bringing the world's attention to Google's insidious links to the Israeli military machine which has been accused of genocide in Gaza. We should applaud their selfless sacrifice to bringing light on this nefarious partnership.

They are US taxpayers so they already have blood on their hands. The only way they can redeem themselves is by cancelling their US citizenship which of course cannot happen.

 

[Mamoon]

Google did the right thing. As an employee, you have to abide by the rule of the organization. It is not rocket science.

Surely, these self-appointed white knights would have been aware of Google policies.

It must have been listed on the contract that they signed and if they were smart, they would have read the contract and we can assume that they are smart because you can’t be dumb and work for Google.

They decided to challenge the regulations and therefore, they must bear the consequences.

 

[Hitman]

The funniest part is seeing people posting on social media on how they have boycotted Coke and Pepsi due to their pro Israel stance and they are also criticizing Google.

They are performing this great service for the ummah using their……Android phones.

They would rather boycott things that does not effect their life.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They are US taxpayers so they already have blood on their hands. The only way they can redeem themselves is by cancelling their US citizenship which of course cannot happen.

You are correct, but that is their business not mine. I am only applauding their shedding light on Google being aligned with a regime which is accused of committing genocide in the middle east. This has infuriated the pro israel and their supporters in their evil designs so I have no problem applauding the actions regardless of taxation or other consideration.

 

[Stewie]

At the end of the day, Google is a corporation, a business and they are answerable to their stakeholders not their employees. I dont agree with the decision, but I see why fired them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

At the end of the day, Google is a corporation, a business and they are answerable to their stakeholders not their employees. I dont agree with the decision, but I see why fired them.

Yes they are perfectly entitled to fire whomever they please. But individuals are also entitled to protest in a peacable manner against the company aligning with a regime which is committing genocide. After that what punitive measures Google wishes to take against it's conscienscous employees is totally their choice, no one can argue it.

 

[Rajdeep]

Yes they are perfectly entitled to fire whomever they please. But individuals are also entitled to protest in a peacable manner against the company aligning with a regime which is committing genocide. After that what punitive measures Google wishes to take against it's conscienscous employees is totally their choice, no one can argue it.

Nope employees are not entitled to protest in any manner in the office. It is clealry mentioned in the offer letter that states any political posturing is not permitted. If they don't like the policies of the company, they are free to leave.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Nope employees are not entitled to protest in any manner in the office. It is clealry mentioned in the offer letter that states any political posturing is not permitted. If they don't like the policies of the company, they are free to leave.

Google employees often protest military products via internal debates and petitions. This is well known to anybody who works there or is involved in the industry. Company cultures and policies are shaped by employee opinion, and this is a fact in most professional workplaces.

You can argue that physically disrupting work is crossing the line but its not correct to say people should just leave companies they don't like. They should attempt to make their voices heard and to shape the company culture.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nope employees are not entitled to protest in any manner in the office. It is clealry mentioned in the offer letter that states any political posturing is not permitted. If they don't like the policies of the company, they are free to leave.

Or they can carry out a peaceful demonstration to signal their opinion and be sacked. I am not criticising Google for siding with the genocidal Israelis, they are a private company and that is their business. I am only giving credit to the brave employees who risked their jobs to expose the evil alliance.

 

[HalBass9]

The funniest part is seeing people posting on social media on how they have boycotted Coke and Pepsi due to their pro Israel stance and they are also criticizing Google.

They are performing this great service for the ummah using their……Android phones.

Such arguments tread perilously close to the realm of fallacy, akin to rhetoric one might expect from a theologian steeped in the teachings of a specific institution, such as the renowned Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman's.

The act of protest carries inherent symbolism, a concept that I presume most individuals are cognizant of.

The notion of relinquishing citizenship solely due to governmental complicity in genocide appears to be a specious, almost frivolous contention akin to trolling, devoid of logical coherence. The most efficacious avenue for effecting change remains through the exercise of electoral franchise.

Consider the hypothetical scenario wherein all Pakistani nationals residing abroad were to renounce their citizenship and relocate to Pakistan, leveraging their collective electoral power to oust corrupt politicians perpetuating a legacy of familial corruption. Alternatively, it behooves overseas Pakistanis and Muslims to remain in Western nations, utilizing their democratic prerogatives to exert pressure on governments and enlighten fellow citizens through the technological advancements fostered by Western institutions. While this approach has proven effective in diversifying the narrative beyond the confines of Western governments, regrettably, it has not yet succeeded in halting the ongoing genocide.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Google employees often protest military products via internal debates and petitions. This is well known to anybody who works there or is involved in the industry. Company cultures and policies are shaped by employee opinion, and this is a fact in most professional workplaces.

You can argue that physically disrupting work is crossing the line but its not correct to say people should just leave companies they don't like. They should attempt to make their voices heard and to shape the company culture.

so you work at google? debates and petitions vs a sit in tantrum in your boss's office? sure they are same.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

so you work at google?

Do you?

Where have I equated debates and sit ins?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In the words of Grammy winning artist Macklemore in his new song about Gaza - " the problem isn't the protest it's what they are protesting"

Sums up the attitude of Indians here

 

[rpant_gabba]

Do you?

I didn't make clams about what goes on at google. you did.

back it up as to how you know what happens on google campus.

Where have I equated debates and sit ins?

Isn't the whole thread about google employees who were doing a sit in the boss's office?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I didn't make clams about what goes on at google. you did.

back it up as to how you know what happens on google campus.


Isn't the whole thread about google employees who were doing a sit in the boss's office?

My point was to Radeep who said employees should simply leave a place of employment if they have concerns and I mentioned there are mechanisms for protest/dissent that exist that seem more palatable to Google management

Do you think that Google employees should have not protested at all?

 

[Technics 1210]

My point was to Radeep who said employees should simply leave a place of employment if they have concerns and I mentioned there are mechanisms for protest/dissent that exist that seem more palatable to Google management

Do you think that Google employees should have not protested at all?

The reality is we cannot compare employment law between the West and India.

Protesting is a right in the West, but a privilege in India.

Though saying this, RSS/BJP supporters living in India had a problem when Sikhs in Canada were protesting against the assassination of Nijjar, a move sanctioned by Modi and his government.

Lets face it, as you said, it is not the protesting, it is what they are protesting about.

 

[rpant_gabba]

My point was to Radeep who said employees should simply leave a place of employment if they have concerns and I mentioned there are mechanisms for protest/dissent that exist that seem more palatable to Google management

yup. locking yourself in Boss' office is not it and one has to careful about using "work" time and resources.

Do you think that Google employees should have not protested at all?

They are free to express their opinion and preferences in way that aligns with the work place code of conduct

 

[DeadlyVenom]

From 2022

HUNDREDS OF GOOGLE workers and their supporters gathered near the company’s downtown San Francisco offices Thursday, raising signs that read “No Tech for Apartheid” and filling the air with chants of “Tech from Amazon and Google! You can’t claim that you are neutral!”


Aniran Chandravongsri joined Google’s cloud division as a Seattle-based software engineer during the height of the Maven protests in May 2018. Having previously worked at General Electric, a major Pentagon contractor, he says seeing the outcry “was a reason I felt a little bit more comfortable joining Google.” Over the years, he has signed petitions protesting the company’s work with police departments and US Customs and Border Patrol, but he decided to take a leadership role in the pushback against Project Nimbus.


^ This guy is still at Google - here is the article. https://www.wired.com/story/google-and-amazon-want-more-defense-contracts-despite-worker-protests/

here is an article from 2023 before the current conflict
A protest erupted Tuesday at a Google Cloud conference in San Francisco, as employees critical of the company’s contract with Israel’s military sought to ratchet up pressure at the company’s annual showcase of its latest products and technology.

Hundreds of protesters gathered as attendees of the annual Google Cloud Next conference flowed out of the Moscone Center in downtown San Francisco for a scheduled 5 p.m. happy hour, having wrapped up speaker sessions and workshops for the day.
“I am very worried that Google has no scruples if they’re going to work with the Israeli government,” said Joshua Marxen, a Google Cloud software engineer who helped to organize the protest. “Google has given us no reason to trust them.”

The Tuesday protest represents continuing tension between Google’s workforce and its senior management over how the company’s technology is used.

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...d-employees-protest-israeli-military-contract ^ the employee mentioned is still at google.
WASHINGTON — Thousands of Google employees, including dozens of senior engineers, have signed a letter protesting the company’s involvement in a Pentagon program that uses artificial intelligence to interpret video imagery and could be used to improve the targeting of drone strikes.

The letter, which is circulating inside Google and has garnered more than 3,100 signatures, reflects a culture clash between Silicon Valley and the federal government that is likely to intensify as cutting-edge artificial intelligence is increasingly employed for military purposes.

Do you think all 3100 employees were sacked?

‘The Business of War’: Google Employees Protest Work for the Pentagon (Published 2018)

Thousands of employees have signed a letter calling on their C.E.O. to pull out of a project that could be used to improve drone strike targeting.

www.nytimes.com

here is google backtracking on such work as a result of protest

Google has promised not to let its artificial intelligence be used in weapons or for anything that might weaken human rights, in the strongest stance yet taken by a big technology company to limit the potential harm from the powerful new science.The commitment follows a storm of protest inside the company over the US military’s use of its vision recognition systems to guide drones. Google told employees last week that it would not renew its contract with the US Department of Defense when it expires next year, even though it had insisted previously that its AI was not being used to help the drones identify targets.

Google lays out AI rules after staff protests over military use

Group came under fire from employees over contract with US Department of Defense

www.ft.com

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The reality is we cannot compare employment law between the West and India.

Protesting is a right in the West, but a privilege in India.

Though saying this, RSS/BJP supporters living in India had a problem when Sikhs in Canada were protesting against the assassination of Nijjar, a move sanctioned by Modi and his government.

Lets face it, as you said, it is not the protesting, it is what they are protesting about.

Even if you forget employment law.

As an employer would you rather have employees are passionate about your products and put thoughts and love into their work so much so that they are willing to protest to try and get you to do the right thing.

Or robots who don't care about the bigger picture as long as the money comes in.

Of course nobody can protest forever and ultimately if you are unable to get the company to see things your way then the employee should leave. However some level of engagement and to try to build an understanding is good for everyone.

 

[HalBass9]

Even if you forget employment law.

As an employer would you rather have employees are passionate about your products and put thoughts and love into their work so much so that they are willing to protest to try and get you to do the right thing.

Or robots who don't care about the bigger picture as long as the money comes in.

Of course nobody can protest forever and ultimately if you are unable to get the company to see things your way then the employee should leave. However some level of engagement and to try to build an understanding is good for everyone.

I have noticed this attitude among many Indians regarding protesting against the genocide in Gaza. The prevailing sentiment seems to be that workers should focus solely on their jobs at work place, and students should dedicate themselves exclusively to their studies at universities, earning a living, supporting their families, and refraining from speaking out about broader issues.

This mindset encourages subservience to a system that perpetuates the killing of innocents, as long as individuals' bills are being paid.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I have noticed this attitude among many Indians regarding protesting against the genocide in Gaza. The prevailing sentiment seems to be that workers should focus solely on their jobs at work place, and students should dedicate themselves exclusively to their studies at universities, earning a living, supporting their families, and refraining from speaking out about broader issues.

This mindset encourages subservience to a system that perpetuates the killing of innocents, as long as individuals' bills are being paid.

Tbf on the flip side it's probably why Indian Hindus progress up the ranks so quickly.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Tbf on the flip side it's probably why Indian Hindus progress up the ranks so quickly.

While I think they generally do acquiesce to the bosses orders more readily than most, I think it's dependent on the cause in question. After all, if you are ready to turn a blind eye to genocide, then you'd probably have to question would they have been ok with the holocaust if the Nazis had won?

 

[Technics 1210]

I have noticed this attitude among many Indians regarding protesting against the genocide in Gaza. The prevailing sentiment seems to be that workers should focus solely on their jobs at work place, and students should dedicate themselves exclusively to their studies at universities, earning a living, supporting their families, and refraining from speaking out about broader issues.

This mindset encourages subservience to a system that perpetuates the killing of innocents, as long as individuals' bills are being paid.

This goes back to the point of Indians unable to question their managers/bosses/masters/processes. The subservient/lacky trait has been prevalent amongst Indians due to the history of being ruled by Johnny foreigner for centuries, and will no doubt take centuries for Indian immigrants to get to a stage where they can think, question, and decide for themselves.

Saying this, Indians born in the West are the complete opposite in my experience, where they do question, challenge, and act accordingly.

Hence the opinions we see now from Indian immigrants/indigenous on this story, are not opinions, but subconscious responses due to centuries of subservience and more recently, Neuro-linguistic programming, from the very top of the Indian government.

 

[Technics 1210]

Tbf on the flip side it's probably why Indian Hindus progress up the ranks so quickly.

100% true.

Yes sir. Yes sir. 3 bags full sir.

Though personally, being a yes man has nothing to do with progression, but more regression. In my field, I prefer people who challenge me, rather than say, yes!

 

[rpant_gabba]

From 2022

HUNDREDS OF GOOGLE workers and their supporters gathered near the company’s downtown San Francisco offices Thursday, raising signs that read “No Tech for Apartheid” and filling the air with chants of “Tech from Amazon and Google! You can’t claim that you are neutral!”


Aniran Chandravongsri joined Google’s cloud division as a Seattle-based software engineer during the height of the Maven protests in May 2018. Having previously worked at General Electric, a major Pentagon contractor, he says seeing the outcry “was a reason I felt a little bit more comfortable joining Google.” Over the years, he has signed petitions protesting the company’s work with police departments and US Customs and Border Patrol, but he decided to take a leadership role in the pushback against Project Nimbus.


^ This guy is still at Google - here is the article. https://www.wired.com/story/google-and-amazon-want-more-defense-contracts-despite-worker-protests/

here is an article from 2023 before the current conflict
A protest erupted Tuesday at a Google Cloud conference in San Francisco, as employees critical of the company’s contract with Israel’s military sought to ratchet up pressure at the company’s annual showcase of its latest products and technology.

Hundreds of protesters gathered as attendees of the annual Google Cloud Next conference flowed out of the Moscone Center in downtown San Francisco for a scheduled 5 p.m. happy hour, having wrapped up speaker sessions and workshops for the day.
“I am very worried that Google has no scruples if they’re going to work with the Israeli government,” said Joshua Marxen, a Google Cloud software engineer who helped to organize the protest. “Google has given us no reason to trust them.”

The Tuesday protest represents continuing tension between Google’s workforce and its senior management over how the company’s technology is used.

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...d-employees-protest-israeli-military-contract ^ the employee mentioned is still at google.
WASHINGTON — Thousands of Google employees, including dozens of senior engineers, have signed a letter protesting the company’s involvement in a Pentagon program that uses artificial intelligence to interpret video imagery and could be used to improve the targeting of drone strikes.

The letter, which is circulating inside Google and has garnered more than 3,100 signatures, reflects a culture clash between Silicon Valley and the federal government that is likely to intensify as cutting-edge artificial intelligence is increasingly employed for military purposes.

Do you think all 3100 employees were sacked?

‘The Business of War’: Google Employees Protest Work for the Pentagon (Published 2018)

Thousands of employees have signed a letter calling on their C.E.O. to pull out of a project that could be used to improve drone strike targeting.

www.nytimes.com

here is google backtracking on such work as a result of protest

Google has promised not to let its artificial intelligence be used in weapons or for anything that might weaken human rights, in the strongest stance yet taken by a big technology company to limit the potential harm from the powerful new science.The commitment follows a storm of protest inside the company over the US military’s use of its vision recognition systems to guide drones. Google told employees last week that it would not renew its contract with the US Department of Defense when it expires next year, even though it had insisted previously that its AI was not being used to help the drones identify targets.

Google lays out AI rules after staff protests over military use

Group came under fire from employees over contract with US Department of Defense

www.ft.com

So google didn’t fire them for lawfully protesting within the work place code of conduct? Shocking. Remind me who was the. CEO in 2022?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Speaking of subservience, didn’t pak army sign up to massacre Palestinians Jordan? Guess that’s halal as it is green on green violence.

Muslim Mideast countries with all their wealth and leverage seems to twiddling their thumbs for decades. Not sure what that is about.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Tbf on the flip side it's probably why Indian Hindus progress up the ranks so quickly.

How about you guys let 1 democratically elected Government complete it's term in your history before bragging about being fearless and unwilling to bend to authority, because your public couldn't do a thing when your democratically elected leader got jailed.

Indians in the West rise up the ranks because of their education, unless you believe that Anjem Chaudary would have got Sundar Pichai's job if he was more submissive

 

[rpant_gabba]

You guys are super touchy lol. I don't know why you are constantly triggered where did I brag about anything. Anyway Is Sunchal a relation is that why you are angry?

If you want to take credit for his work why don't you man up and tell us what you do and where you work before trying to hop on the coat tails of Indian migrants to point score.

Seems to like you are not able to handle what you dish out.

Posts get deleted when we anywhere close what u guys post

 

[HalBass9]

How about you guys let 1 democratically elected Government complete it's term in your history before bragging about being fearless and unwilling to bend to authority, because your public couldn't do a thing when your democratically elected leader got jailed.

Indians in the West rise up the ranks because of their education, unless you believe that Anjem Chaudary would have got Sundar Pichai's job if he was more submissive

You seem to be experiencing some confusion, which is understandable, and neither you nor those who appreciated your comment should be faulted for it.

Truly fearless action would involve outright opposition to the establishment of Pakistan. However, it is more commonplace than one might imagine to see individuals expressing dissent against the Pakistani establishment on social media and openly criticizing it in public. While Pakistanis have demonstrated their readiness to take to the streets, as evidenced by their response to Imran Khan's removal and subsequent rallies, engaging in outright war against the establishment is a different matter altogether, at least for now, due to numerous factors. However, delving into that discussion would require its own separate thread.

Undoubtedly, Sundar Pichai earned his position through his exceptional education, as have many other Indians. Generally, jobs in Western countries are awarded based on merit, regardless of nationality, whether it be Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, American, or otherwise. Yet, returning to the crux of the matter, which you and a few others may be struggling to grasp: if Sundar Pichai were to comment against Israel or speak out against the Gaza genocide, how long do you suppose he would remain CEO of Google?

 

[HalBass9]

Speaking of subservience, didn’t pak army sign up to massacre Palestinians Jordan? Guess that’s halal as it is green on green violence.

Muslim Mideast countries with all their wealth and leverage seems to twiddling their thumbs for decades. Not sure what that is about.

If wealth were the sole criterion for claiming victory, then Abhinandan would likely be serving tea to Pakistani pilots in India.

Indeed, there is no prideful acknowledgment or praise for Zia's involvement in the massacre of Palestinians in Jordan; instead, he is condemned by Pakistanis for his actions.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Seems to like you are not able to handle what you dish out.

If wealth were the sole criterion for claiming victory, then Abhinandan would likely be serving tea to Pakistani pilots in India.

Indeed, there is no prideful acknowledgment or praise for Zia's involvement in the massacre of Palestinians in Jordan; instead, he is condemned by Pakistanis for his actions.

Oh please Zia being condemned? His idealigy ingrained into both britistanis and Pakistanis

So why get knickers twisted in a know when it s pointed out that Muslims are no better

 

[HalBass9]

Oh please Zia being condemned? His idealigy ingrained into both britistanis and Pakistanis

Zia is universally condemned for his role in the massacre of Palestinians in Jordan. Have you encountered any Pakistanis who support Zia for his actions in Jordan?

If you wish to discuss Britistanis (whatever that may be) and Pakistanis, we can but let's focus on one topic at a time: Zia's condemnation for his actions regarding the Palestinians.

Additionally, could you please provide any Pakistani commentators who have supported Zia's actions in Jordan?

Thank you.

 

[HalBass9]

This goes back to the point of Indians unable to question their managers/bosses/masters/processes. The subservient/lacky trait has been prevalent amongst Indians due to the history of being ruled by Johnny foreigner for centuries, and will no doubt take centuries for Indian immigrants to get to a stage where they can think, question, and decide for themselves.

Saying this, Indians born in the West are the complete opposite in my experience, where they do question, challenge, and act accordingly.

Hence the opinions we see now from Indian immigrants/indigenous on this story, are not opinions, but subconscious responses due to centuries of subservience and more recently, Neuro-linguistic programming, from the very top of the Indian government.

Had similar experience.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Zia is universally condemned for his role in the massacre of Palestinians in Jordan. Have you encountered any Pakistanis who support Zia for his actions in Jordan?

If you wish to discuss Britistanis (whatever that may be) and Pakistanis, we can but let's focus on one topic at a time: Zia's condemnation for his actions regarding the Palestinians.

Additionally, could you please provide any Pakistani commentators who have supported Zia's actions in Jordan?

Thank you.

You are stuck having to acknowledge that Muslims are as subservient if not more that the story being promoted here.

Must really eager to know that Muslims of Jordan, KSA UAe Egypt turkey etc are standing around watching the Israelis go to town on Palestinians

 

[rpant_gabba]

I understand your difficulty. You are stuck having to acknowledge that Muslims are as subservient if not more that the story being promoted here.

Must really eager to know that Muslims of Jordan, KSA UAe Egypt turkey etc are standing around watching the Israelis go to town on Palestinians

Not my choice of word there. That was an edit not by me

 

[rpant_gabba]

Had similar experience.

Guess the crowd ending up in UK must be different .

Most of the US emigres from India first end up in US for higher education and have a reputation in academic and industrial circles for not giving much ground.

 

[HalBass9]

You are stuck having to acknowledge that Muslims are as subservient if not more that the story being promoted here.

Must really eager to know that Muslims of Jordan, KSA UAe Egypt turkey etc are standing around watching the Israelis go to town on Palestinians

Before responding to my comment, could you please address the initial argument that was challenged? I requested to find a single Pakistani who had praised Zia for the massacres of Palestinians in Jordan. If the reply veers off-topic and fails to address the raised point, it indicates an intention not to engage in discussion but rather to maintain a facade of being right, which would be a waste of time for me. Thank you.

Muslims aren't subservient; Muslim dictators are. This is a common observation that cannot be disregarded, even by someone who might wish to do so.

There were multiple protests in Arab countries that compelled some elected officials to change their stance. Initially, Erdogan remained silent, but as the people of Turkey protested, he had to come out and pretend to care about Palestine. This was all due to pressure from Muslims within Turkey.

If Arab leaders were unconcerned about the sentiments of their Muslim populations regarding Palestine, they would not enact laws prohibiting open protests or prosecute those who protest against Gaza's genocide.

Even in the US, the Biden administration is concerned about Michigan due to its large Muslim population.

Muslims in these countries fear being beaten, indefinitely imprisoned, or even killed for speaking out, but this does not align with the implication of your comments and certainly does not equate to Indians being subservient for monetary gain.

 

[HalBass9]

Guess the crowd ending up in UK must be different .

Most of the US emigres from India first end up in US for higher education and have a reputation in academic and industrial circles for not giving much ground.

That's an academic point; the crux of the discussion revolves around challenging companies that directly support the Gaza genocide or, at the very least, quietly endorse those who protest against it.

There is a notable presence of Indians, primarily recent immigrants, who have concocted nearly any conceivable excuse to justify the Gaza genocide.

 

[rpant_gabba]

That's an academic point; the crux of the discussion revolves around challenging companies that directly support the Gaza genocide or, at the very least, quietly endorse those who protest against it.

Maybe for you. for the rest many of other posters its a generalization. why do you think they imply subservience advances Indian careers. Its a racist coping mechanism of people with limited ability or mere gaslighting.

There is a notable presence of Indians, primarily recent immigrants, who have concocted nearly any conceivable excuse to justify the Gaza genocide.

most FOB immigrants justify israels actions in gaza? how did you reach that conclusion? anecdotal stories?

For me personally, Hamas got exactly what it wanted. a mess.

there is another aspect regarding immigrants vs first generation wrt social issues.

FOBs are too busy trying to support both their children, their family back home and their own retirement.

First generations indian kids have well to do parents and so they can afford to be more socially engaged.

 

[big_gamer007]

Before responding to my comment, could you please address the initial argument that was challenged? I requested to find a single Pakistani who had praised Zia for the massacres of Palestinians in Jordan. If the reply veers off-topic and fails to address the raised point, it indicates an intention not to engage in discussion but rather to maintain a facade of being right, which would be a waste of time for me. Thank you.

Muslims aren't subservient; Muslim dictators are. This is a common observation that cannot be disregarded, even by someone who might wish to do so.

There were multiple protests in Arab countries that compelled some elected officials to change their stance. Initially, Erdogan remained silent, but as the people of Turkey protested, he had to come out and pretend to care about Palestine. This was all due to pressure from Muslims within Turkey.

If Arab leaders were unconcerned about the sentiments of their Muslim populations regarding Palestine, they would not enact laws prohibiting open protests or prosecute those who protest against Gaza's genocide.

Even in the US, the Biden administration is concerned about Michigan due to its large Muslim population.

Muslims in these countries fear being beaten, indefinitely imprisoned, or even killed for speaking out, but this does not align with the implication of your comments and certainly does not equate to Indians being subservient for monetary gain.

Common folks irrespective of religion are subservient to authority be it Muslims or any other religion.

Muslims under Taliban, Saddam or as recently as Pakistani army were all suppressed and submitted to authority.

In very rare cases when an opposition leader grows strong enough to challenge the ruling authority do the masses come out to protest.
No common folk ever comes out and starts a protest themselves, they are all sheep who needs a leader to even challenge the people submitting them.

That’s how humans are, it’s nothing to do with religion.

Even on this topic, Muslims have failed to condemn Hamas and are not even raising their voice for Hamas to release the hostages they still have with them.
If a Muslim actually cared about other Muslims they would condemn actions of Hamas, protest against Hamas in addition to protesting against Israel.

The whole conflict is people in power using subservient common folks as their playground and Muslims are succumbing to being pawns in that game. If that’s not being subservient what else is?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Before responding to my comment, could you please address the initial argument that was challenged? I requested to find a single Pakistani who had praised Zia for the massacres of Palestinians in Jordan. If the reply veers off-topic and fails to address the raised point, it indicates an intention not to engage in discussion but rather to maintain a facade of being right, which would be a waste of time for me. Thank you.

The intention to is point out that muslims are subservient as the claims made against the hindus,

Muslims aren't subservient; Muslim dictators are. This is a common observation that cannot be disregarded, even by someone who might wish to do so.

muslims are subservient to muslim dictators. that is difference w/o a distinction

There were multiple protests in Arab countries that compelled some elected officials to change their stance. Initially, Erdogan remained silent, but as the people of Turkey protested, he had to come out and pretend to care about Palestine. This was all due to pressure from Muslims within Turkey.

so a token protest while weapons deal with israelis

If Arab leaders were unconcerned about the sentiments of their Muslim populations regarding Palestine, they would not enact laws prohibiting open protests or prosecute those who protest against Gaza's genocide.

Even in the US, the Biden administration is concerned about Michigan due to its large Muslim population.

Muslims in these countries fear being beaten, indefinitely imprisoned, or even killed for speaking out, but this does not align with the implication of your comments and certainly does not equate to Indians being subservient for monetary gain.

SO muslims care about their livelihood and are subservient, but indians are subservient for monetary gain.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You seem to be experiencing some confusion, which is understandable, and neither you nor those who appreciated your comment should be faulted for it.

Truly fearless action would involve outright opposition to the establishment of Pakistan. However, it is more commonplace than one might imagine to see individuals expressing dissent against the Pakistani establishment on social media and openly criticizing it in public. While Pakistanis have demonstrated their readiness to take to the streets, as evidenced by their response to Imran Khan's removal and subsequent rallies, engaging in outright war against the establishment is a different matter altogether, at least for now, due to numerous factors. However, delving into that discussion would require its own separate thread.

Undoubtedly, Sundar Pichai earned his position through his exceptional education, as have many other Indians. Generally, jobs in Western countries are awarded based on merit, regardless of nationality, whether it be Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, American, or otherwise. Yet, returning to the crux of the matter, which you and a few others may be struggling to grasp: if Sundar Pichai were to comment against Israel or speak out against the Gaza genocide, how long do you suppose he would remain CEO of Google?

And why should Pichai comment against Israel? He has the freedom to not do so.

Pichai isn't living in Pakistan where he has to go against Israel else face the music. He lives in a free country and has the freedom to not comment on something he doesn't want to.

 

[HalBass9]

Common folks irrespective of religion are subservient to authority be it Muslims or any other religion.

Muslims under Taliban, Saddam or as recently as Pakistani army were all suppressed and submitted to authority.

In very rare cases when an opposition leader grows strong enough to challenge the ruling authority do the masses come out to protest.
No common folk ever comes out and starts a protest themselves, they are all sheep who needs a leader to even challenge the people submitting them.

That’s how humans are, it’s nothing to do with religion.

Even on this topic, Muslims have failed to condemn Hamas and are not even raising their voice for Hamas to release the hostages they still have with them.
If a Muslim actually cared about other Muslims they would condemn actions of Hamas, protest against Hamas in addition to protesting against Israel.

The whole conflict is people in power using subservient common folks as their playground and Muslims are succumbing to being pawns in that game. If that’s not being subservient what else is?

It seems we're essentially making the same point and coming to an agreement. However, the criticism here is directed towards recent Indian immigrants who often choose to remain silent, lacking the courage to protest, primarily out of fear of financial repercussions. This contrasts with individuals in Muslim-majority countries, where silence often stems from the fear of losing one's life due to oppressive regimes.

In this discussion, some have highlighted the contrast between Indians born in Western countries, who are more assertive in advocating for human rights in their workplaces, regardless of financial risks.

It's worth noting that the insertion of the term 'Muslim' was made by proponents, not myself. I chose to use 'Indians,' as it encompasses a broader demographic, unless the term 'Indians' is exclusively interpreted as 'Hindus.'

Hamas offered to release hostages:

"According to Haim Rubinstein, who had until April 2024 been the spokesman of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum representing the families of the hostages, the group "found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the [Gaza] Strip"

Hamas also agreed to release Hostages most recently couple of days ago.

Now why would anyone protest against something that they have already agreed to do so.

Regarding condemnation of Hamas:

It seems you're suggesting that many Indians on this forum rely heavily on news from one side of the media spectrum, neglecting to explore alternative perspectives. It's understandable; there's often a preference for content that aligns with one's preconceived notions. Interestingly, while there's excitement when figures like Modi are interviewed by certain media personalities, there's less enthusiasm when Modi engage with other outlets that prioritize factual accuracy over entertainment value. However, let's not digress into discussions about Modi; that's a topic for another thread.

People have regularly and repeatedly condemned Hamas, but they also comprehend the reasons behind Hamas actions. It's not a justification but rather an explanation. Anyone disregarding 75 years of occupation and apartheid is simply being dishonest. Scholars like Norman Finkelstein have articulated this perspective thoroughly; you can find more about his insights by searching him on Google.

The Global South is united in its condemnation of Israel, with the exception of Indians, among whom the majority come from one political party, the BJP. Supporters of the BJP have made every attempt to find excuses to condemn those protesting against the Gaza genocide. Additionally, another group refraining from condemning Israel consists of those who seek to perpetuate colonial settlement.

Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs and causing harm to innocent children, so the protests are directed towards those responsible for these acts of genocide. This understanding is shared by the Global South, the Jewish community, and most Indians born and raised in the US. However, it seems that this concept is not comprehended by Indians residing in India

 

[HalBass9]

And why should Pichai comment against Israel? He has the freedom to not do so.

Pichai isn't living in Pakistan where he has to go against Israel else face the music. He lives in a free country and has the freedom to not comment on something he doesn't want to.

I'm somewhat puzzled by your comments defending India whenever valid criticisms are raised.

It's quite evident that my post wasn't about his right to choose to comment or remain silent. Your consistent failure to grasp this and your immediate inclination to defend always seems to inject an emotional and simplistic tone into your responses.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It seems we're essentially making the same point and coming to an agreement. However, the criticism here is directed towards recent Indian immigrants who often choose to remain silent, lacking the courage to protest, primarily out of fear of financial repercussions. This contrasts with individuals in Muslim-majority countries, where silence often stems from the fear of losing one's life due to oppressive regimes.

In this discussion, some have highlighted the contrast between Indians born in Western countries, who are more assertive in advocating for human rights in their workplaces, regardless of financial risks.

It's worth noting that the insertion of the term 'Muslim' was made by proponents, not myself. I chose to use 'Indians,' as it encompasses a broader demographic, unless the term 'Indians' is exclusively interpreted as 'Hindus.'

Hamas offered to release hostages:

"According to Haim Rubinstein, who had until April 2024 been the spokesman of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum representing the families of the hostages, the group "found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the [Gaza] Strip"

Hamas also agreed to release Hostages most recently couple of days ago.

Now why would anyone protest against something that they have already agreed to do so.

Regarding condemnation of Hamas:

It seems you're suggesting that many Indians on this forum rely heavily on news from one side of the media spectrum, neglecting to explore alternative perspectives. It's understandable; there's often a preference for content that aligns with one's preconceived notions. Interestingly, while there's excitement when figures like Modi are interviewed by certain media personalities, there's less enthusiasm when Modi engage with other outlets that prioritize factual accuracy over entertainment value. However, let's not digress into discussions about Modi; that's a topic for another thread.

People have regularly and repeatedly condemned Hamas, but they also comprehend the reasons behind Hamas actions. It's not a justification but rather an explanation. Anyone disregarding 75 years of occupation and apartheid is simply being dishonest. Scholars like Norman Finkelstein have articulated this perspective thoroughly; you can find more about his insights by searching him on Google.

The Global South is united in its condemnation of Israel, with the exception of Indians, among whom the majority come from one political party, the BJP. Supporters of the BJP have made every attempt to find excuses to condemn those protesting against the Gaza genocide. Additionally, another group refraining from condemning Israel consists of those who seek to perpetuate colonial settlement.

Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs and causing harm to innocent children, so the protests are directed towards those responsible for these acts of genocide. This understanding is shared by the Global South, the Jewish community, and most Indians born and raised in the US. However, it seems that this concept is not comprehended by Indians residing in India

Astute observation. It is this dim witted bunch that seem to relish the death of children and if you poll them you will see that they support one party. It's ironic that they come here to protest about others protesting.

For the most part many Indians stand with the oppressed people of Gaza, there were protests that disrputed the visit of the US ambassador in Delhi. The Indian American winner of the " South Asian Person of the Year" by Harvard Uni also dedicated her award to the Palestinian cause.

There are many visible Indian Americans who attend the US protests, but Indian overseas students are reluctant because they fear deportation.

 

[big_gamer007]

It seems we're essentially making the same point and coming to an agreement. However, the criticism here is directed towards recent Indian immigrants who often choose to remain silent, lacking the courage to protest, primarily out of fear of financial repercussions. This contrasts with individuals in Muslim-majority countries, where silence often stems from the fear of losing one's life due to oppressive regimes.

In this discussion, some have highlighted the contrast between Indians born in Western countries, who are more assertive in advocating for human rights in their workplaces, regardless of financial risks.

It's worth noting that the insertion of the term 'Muslim' was made by proponents, not myself. I chose to use 'Indians,' as it encompasses a broader demographic, unless the term 'Indians' is exclusively interpreted as 'Hindus.'

Hamas offered to release hostages:

"According to Haim Rubinstein, who had until April 2024 been the spokesman of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum representing the families of the hostages, the group "found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the [Gaza] Strip"

Hamas also agreed to release Hostages most recently couple of days ago.

Now why would anyone protest against something that they have already agreed to do so.

Regarding condemnation of Hamas:

It seems you're suggesting that many Indians on this forum rely heavily on news from one side of the media spectrum, neglecting to explore alternative perspectives. It's understandable; there's often a preference for content that aligns with one's preconceived notions. Interestingly, while there's excitement when figures like Modi are interviewed by certain media personalities, there's less enthusiasm when Modi engage with other outlets that prioritize factual accuracy over entertainment value. However, let's not digress into discussions about Modi; that's a topic for another thread.

People have regularly and repeatedly condemned Hamas, but they also comprehend the reasons behind Hamas actions. It's not a justification but rather an explanation. Anyone disregarding 75 years of occupation and apartheid is simply being dishonest. Scholars like Norman Finkelstein have articulated this perspective thoroughly; you can find more about his insights by searching him on Google.

The Global South is united in its condemnation of Israel, with the exception of Indians, among whom the majority come from one political party, the BJP. Supporters of the BJP have made every attempt to find excuses to condemn those protesting against the Gaza genocide. Additionally, another group refraining from condemning Israel consists of those who seek to perpetuate colonial settlement.

Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs and causing harm to innocent children, so the protests are directed towards those responsible for these acts of genocide. This understanding is shared by the Global South, the Jewish community, and most Indians born and raised in the US. However, it seems that this concept is not comprehended by Indians residing in India

I don’t understand why would you expect first generation Indian immigrants to protest or speak up about a conflict in Middle East?

In most cases it’s nothing to do with lacking courage or facing financial repercussions. It’s more to do with Indians have nothing in common and are not aware of the history.

As per Indian beliefs, Pakistani state was sponsoring terrorism in India and was responsible for a lot of terrorist attacks. You wouldn’t find any Indian calling the Arabs, africans, Eastern European etc immigrants in western nation as cowards because they didn’t protest against Pakistani state sponsored terrorism in India.

The entire notion to even expect Indians to come out and protest against things they are unaware of is plain stupid. The Indians who went to western nations mostly went for a better lifestyle and to earn money, they could care less about what happens in Middle East.

Indians born in western nation are second generation or third generation immigrants, they watch western news channels, are raised in multi cultural environment and are part of countries which are involved in the conflict indirectly, so they have more knowledge and care more about the issue compared to a 30 year old guy who migrated to UK from a town in Bihar.


The only reason people on this very forum are so passionate about Palestine is because they are Muslims. There are hundreds of different conflicts going on in the world, however, you won’t find multiple threads with thousands of posts on those topics.

Hindu Indians have nothing in common with Palestine, so they don’t care about them enough to go out and protest.
Hell a lot of Indians are lazy to not go and vote which actually impacts their lives and you expect them to protest for someone they got no clue about?

Indians in India did protest and challenge the government during the recent farmers protest, or CAA/NRC protests or the ongoing Ladakh protests. They raise their voices and protest against the establishment for issues which impact them directly.

Humans are selfish like that.

Hypothetically if Palestine was majority Hindu, you would have seen outrage in India and threads in PP would have sone Pakistani posters talking like some Indian posters talk right now and vice versa.

Regarding the condemnation of Hamas and other points, my point was that Hamas knew what will happen after they carried out the attacks, yet they chose to for whatever reasons. They care zilch about the people of Palestine and are just power hungry clowns who are using the people of Palestine for their own power games.

The people who run the world are all puppet masters who use everyone else as their puppets.

You are expecting Indians and Indian government to condemn Israel, did Palestine condemn Pakistani government and ISI for its role in terror attacks in India where innocent Indian children were killed? No they condemned the attacks but they never condemned Pakistani government/military for it because they have interests with Pakistani state. Same way Indian government/nationals are against loss of lives but they won’t outrightedly condemn Israel since they are allies and Indian interests align with them.

That’s just how the world works. Every state, human is selfish including you, me and all other 8bl+ people in the world.

For you this issue might be close to your heart because you share common religion, for a lot of Indians it’s not just like Ukraine Russia war, ughyr Muslim treatment in China or hundreds of different ongoing conflicts in Africa and other parts of the world are not either.

 

[HalBass9]

I don’t understand why would you expect first generation Indian immigrants to protest or speak up about a conflict in Middle East?

In most cases it’s nothing to do with lacking courage or facing financial repercussions. It’s more to do with Indians have nothing in common and are not aware of the history.

As per Indian beliefs, Pakistani state was sponsoring terrorism in India and was responsible for a lot of terrorist attacks. You wouldn’t find any Indian calling the Arabs, africans, Eastern European etc immigrants in western nation as cowards because they didn’t protest against Pakistani state sponsored terrorism in India.

The entire notion to even expect Indians to come out and protest against things they are unaware of is plain stupid. The Indians who went to western nations mostly went for a better lifestyle and to earn money, they could care less about what happens in Middle East.

Indians born in western nation are second generation or third generation immigrants, they watch western news channels, are raised in multi cultural environment and are part of countries which are involved in the conflict indirectly, so they have more knowledge and care more about the issue compared to a 30 year old guy who migrated to UK from a town in Bihar.


The only reason people on this very forum are so passionate about Palestine is because they are Muslims. There are hundreds of different conflicts going on in the world, however, you won’t find multiple threads with thousands of posts on those topics.

Hindu Indians have nothing in common with Palestine, so they don’t care about them enough to go out and protest.
Hell a lot of Indians are lazy to not go and vote which actually impacts their lives and you expect them to protest for someone they got no clue about?

Indians in India did protest and challenge the government during the recent farmers protest, or CAA/NRC protests or the ongoing Ladakh protests. They raise their voices and protest against the establishment for issues which impact them directly.

Humans are selfish like that.

Hypothetically if Palestine was majority Hindu, you would have seen outrage in India and threads in PP would have sone Pakistani posters talking like some Indian posters talk right now and vice versa.

Regarding the condemnation of Hamas and other points, my point was that Hamas knew what will happen after they carried out the attacks, yet they chose to for whatever reasons. They care zilch about the people of Palestine and are just power hungry clowns who are using the people of Palestine for their own power games.

The people who run the world are all puppet masters who use everyone else as their puppets.

You are expecting Indians and Indian government to condemn Israel, did Palestine condemn Pakistani government and ISI for its role in terror attacks in India where innocent Indian children were killed? No they condemned the attacks but they never condemned Pakistani government/military for it because they have interests with Pakistani state. Same way Indian government/nationals are against loss of lives but they won’t outrightedly condemn Israel since they are allies and Indian interests align with them.

That’s just how the world works. Every state, human is selfish including you, me and all other 8bl+ people in the world.

For you this issue might be close to your heart because you share common religion, for a lot of Indians it’s not just like Ukraine Russia war, ughyr Muslim treatment in China or hundreds of different ongoing conflicts in Africa and other parts of the world are not either.

You seem to be consistently missing the point and veering off on a tangent.

No one is demanding that Indians protest; we're simply attempting to comprehend and emphasize why some Indians seem to be searching for excuses to justify the Gaza genocide, especially when the rest of the Global South has also condemned it.

 

[big_gamer007]

It seems we're essentially making the same point and coming to an agreement. However, the criticism here is directed towards recent Indian immigrants who often choose to remain silent, lacking the courage to protest, primarily out of fear of financial repercussions. This contrasts with individuals in Muslim-majority countries, where silence often stems from the fear of losing one's life due to oppressive regimes.

In this discussion, some have highlighted the contrast between Indians born in Western countries, who are more assertive in advocating for human rights in their workplaces, regardless of financial risks.

It's worth noting that the insertion of the term 'Muslim' was made by proponents, not myself. I chose to use 'Indians,' as it encompasses a broader demographic, unless the term 'Indians' is exclusively interpreted as 'Hindus.'

Hamas offered to release hostages:

"According to Haim Rubinstein, who had until April 2024 been the spokesman of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum representing the families of the hostages, the group "found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the [Gaza] Strip"

Hamas also agreed to release Hostages most recently couple of days ago.

Now why would anyone protest against something that they have already agreed to do so.

Regarding condemnation of Hamas:

It seems you're suggesting that many Indians on this forum rely heavily on news from one side of the media spectrum, neglecting to explore alternative perspectives. It's understandable; there's often a preference for content that aligns with one's preconceived notions. Interestingly, while there's excitement when figures like Modi are interviewed by certain media personalities, there's less enthusiasm when Modi engage with other outlets that prioritize factual accuracy over entertainment value. However, let's not digress into discussions about Modi; that's a topic for another thread.

People have regularly and repeatedly condemned Hamas, but they also comprehend the reasons behind Hamas actions. It's not a justification but rather an explanation. Anyone disregarding 75 years of occupation and apartheid is simply being dishonest. Scholars like Norman Finkelstein have articulated this perspective thoroughly; you can find more about his insights by searching him on Google.

The Global South is united in its condemnation of Israel, with the exception of Indians, among whom the majority come from one political party, the BJP. Supporters of the BJP have made every attempt to find excuses to condemn those protesting against the Gaza genocide. Additionally, another group refraining from condemning Israel consists of those who seek to perpetuate colonial settlement.

Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs and causing harm to innocent children, so the protests are directed towards those responsible for these acts of genocide. This understanding is shared by the Global South, the Jewish community, and most Indians born and raised in the US. However, it seems that this concept is not comprehended by Indians residing in India

My post above in no way means that Indians support the genocide or killing of innocent lives.

It just shows the harsh reality of the world where people won’t go out of their way to stop something which doesn’t impact them directly or impact someone they have strong affiliation towards.

 

[big_gamer007]

You seem to be consistently missing the point and veering off on a tangent.

No one is demanding that Indians protest; we're simply attempting to comprehend and emphasize why some Indians seem to be searching for excuses to justify the Gaza genocide, especially when the rest of the Global South has also condemned it.

If any Indian justifies genocide in Gaza, it’s because of their hatred towards Muslims and/or their support for Israel which helped India during its war with Pakistan.

If you ask them to point Israel or Palestine on the map, a lot of them will actually struggle to.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm somewhat puzzled by your comments defending India whenever valid criticisms are raised.

It's quite evident that my post wasn't about his right to choose to comment or remain silent. Your consistent failure to grasp this and your immediate inclination to defend always seems to inject an emotional and simplistic tone into your responses.

Again, don't beat around the bush.

Do you agree that Pichai or anyone not wanting to comment on Israel or boycott them have the right to do so and its perfectly alright and legal.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Astute observation. It is this dim witted bunch that seem to relish the death of children and if you poll them you will see that they support one party. It's ironic that they come here to protest about others protesting.

For the most part many Indians stand with the oppressed people of Gaza, there were protests that disrputed the visit of the US ambassador in Delhi. The Indian American winner of the " South Asian Person of the Year" by Harvard Uni also dedicated her award to the Palestinian cause.

There are many visible Indian Americans who attend the US protests, but Indian overseas students are reluctant because they fear deportation.

I hardly see any protests in India against Israel. Some random guy doing something in USA isn't a reflection of India.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I hardly see any protests in India against Israel. Some random guy doing something in USA isn't a reflection of India.

Some random CEO seems to be a reflection for many Indians so we will consider some random actress or random guy to equally be a reflection.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If any Indian justifies genocide in Gaza, it’s because of their hatred towards Muslims and/or their support for Israel which helped India during its war with Pakistan.

If you ask them to point Israel or Palestine on the map, a lot of them will actually struggle to.

First of all, Israel is at war and war has its consequences. Israel was attacked, 1200 people killed. They retaliated with disproportionate conventional force.

For too long terrorists and their supporters have used asymmetric warfare tactics. They believed that countries they target won't retaliate with full force. And if they do they will play the victim card to stop any such operations.

But that theory is now out of the window. Any major terrorist attack may invite full fledged retaliation. Israel is doing it. India did it. Srilanka did it. Other's have done it too.

Indians understand what it means to face terrorist attacks.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some random CEO seems to be a reflection for many Indians so we will consider some random actress or random guy to equally be a reflection.

Pichai isn't a random CEO.

You can keep imagining your reflections.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pichai isn't a random CEO.

You can keep imagining your reflections.

He is just as much/little a reflection of India than anybody else.

Your weightings are irrelevant.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It seems we're essentially making the same point and coming to an agreement. However, the criticism here is directed towards recent Indian immigrants who often choose to remain silent, lacking the courage to protest, primarily out of fear of financial repercussions. This contrasts with individuals in Muslim-majority countries, where silence often stems from the fear of losing one's life due to oppressive regimes.

In this discussion, some have highlighted the contrast between Indians born in Western countries, who are more assertive in advocating for human rights in their workplaces, regardless of financial risks.

It's worth noting that the insertion of the term 'Muslim' was made by proponents, not myself. I chose to use 'Indians,' as it encompasses a broader demographic, unless the term 'Indians' is exclusively interpreted as 'Hindus.'

Hamas offered to release hostages:

"According to Haim Rubinstein, who had until April 2024 been the spokesman of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum representing the families of the hostages, the group "found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the [Gaza] Strip"

Hamas also agreed to release Hostages most recently couple of days ago.

Now why would anyone protest against something that they have already agreed to do so.

Regarding condemnation of Hamas:

It seems you're suggesting that many Indians on this forum rely heavily on news from one side of the media spectrum, neglecting to explore alternative perspectives. It's understandable; there's often a preference for content that aligns with one's preconceived notions. Interestingly, while there's excitement when figures like Modi are interviewed by certain media personalities, there's less enthusiasm when Modi engage with other outlets that prioritize factual accuracy over entertainment value. However, let's not digress into discussions about Modi; that's a topic for another thread.

People have regularly and repeatedly condemned Hamas, but they also comprehend the reasons behind Hamas actions. It's not a justification but rather an explanation. Anyone disregarding 75 years of occupation and apartheid is simply being dishonest. Scholars like Norman Finkelstein have articulated this perspective thoroughly; you can find more about his insights by searching him on Google.

The Global South is united in its condemnation of Israel, with the exception of Indians, among whom the majority come from one political party, the BJP. Supporters of the BJP have made every attempt to find excuses to condemn those protesting against the Gaza genocide. Additionally, another group refraining from condemning Israel consists of those who seek to perpetuate colonial settlement.

Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs and causing harm to innocent children, so the protests are directed towards those responsible for these acts of genocide. This understanding is shared by the Global South, the Jewish community, and most Indians born and raised in the US. However, it seems that this concept is not comprehended by Indians residing in India

First of all, Indian immigrants have every right to decide whether they want to comment on something or not.

Pakistanis or others can't take away that right. I doubt Indians anywhere care about the "criticism" from pakistanis.

Pakistanis have been criticizing Indian Muslims for decades for not supporting the terrorists in Kashmir. No one cared.

Indians in India are not going to follow anyone or any country. What's this logic of xyz countries doing this, why aren't Indians.

Israel is at war with Hamas and its supporters. Its their problem. We don't poke our nose in matters that doesn't concern us. Neither do we let others poke their noses in ours.

And you can live in the delusional that Indians would have reacted in any other way if BJP was not in power or that this reaction is exclusive to some BJP supporters.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He is just as much/little a reflection of India than anybody else.

Your weightings are irrelevant.

Pichai is exactly what is happening in India.

My weightings are far closer to reality than those of a Pakistani in UK.

 

[Hitman]

And you can live in the delusional that Indians would have reacted in any other way if BJP was not in power or that this reaction is exclusive to some BJP supporters.

Anyways, how exactly are we in India support to react? It's a war that does not involve us directly or indirectly in any way. Looks like some people expect us to create a mess of law and order in India much like some immigrants are doing in some of the countries in the West.​

 

[cricketjoshila]

Anyways, how exactly are we in India support to react? It's a war that does not involve us directly or indirectly in any way. Looks like some people expect us to create a mess of law and order in India much like some immigrants are doing in some of the countries in the West.​

Pakistanis have this weird expectations that their view is the best view. And leftists have for years strenthened this along with islamists.

Pakistanis have always hated Indian Muslims for not starting a civil war in India over Kashmir.

I remember a few posters on PP were so sure that Indian Muslims will create law and order issues in India over Israel- Palestine issue. I see nothing.

Far leftists rags in India like The Wire tried to ignite some flames. Didn't work.

Basically if you are not supporting a muslim cause, you are bad.