Has the Pakistan pace bowling attack (barring Mohammad Amir) become comparable to the Indian one?

[waleed88]

Winning involves batsmen and spinners and catching etc etc. Here we are talking only of fast bowlers barring Amir.

Bowlers.....!!!
I can only give you an eg of england test matches coz we last played there in 2010.. we won the oval test coz of faster bowlers.. and we won against Australia because of our pacer bowlers.. 2 things back then which the Indian side could'nt do..

Now we can only conclude this arguement at the end of the calendar year, when there will be substantial evidence for you to put your case, but right now not much soo..

 

[geraltofrivia]

3-4 matches in a span of 6 years is nothing compared to the 15 odd games Indian team plays in a year.. there is just no comparison at all..

For the record Wahab played only 2 test matches in England.. whereas Rahat played only 2 in SA..

Wahab has played 4 matches in England (including these two), 2 in New Zealand and 2 in West Indies. That's 8 outside the subcontinent. He averages 34.5 in England, 42.25 in NZ and 38.75 in WI for a total avg of 36.9 in 8 matches. He has 1 5-fer in Lords.

Rahat Ali has played 2 matches in England and 2 matches in SA. 4 outside the subcontinent. He averages 36 in England and 37.83 in SA for a total avg of 36.91 in 4 matches. He has 1 5-fer in Capetown I believe?

 

[big_gamer007]

Bowlers.....!!!
I can only give you an eg of england test matches coz we last played there in 2010.. we won the oval test coz of faster bowlers.. and we won against Australia because of our pacer bowlers.. 2 things back then which the Indian side could'nt do..

Now we can only conclude this arguement at the end of the calendar year, when there will be substantial evidence for you to put your case, but right now not much soo..

In 2010 you had a better bowling attack than India for English conditions no doubt.. Amir and Asif inform in favorable conditions.. But current Pakistani bowling attack minus Amir (who himself isn't in best of forms yet) is probably your worse for ages..

 

[geraltofrivia]

Bowlers.....!!!
I can only give you an eg of england test matches coz we last played there in 2010.. we won the oval test coz of faster bowlers.. and we won against Australia because of our pacer bowlers.. 2 things back then which the Indian side could'nt do..

Now we can only conclude this arguement at the end of the calendar year, when there will be substantial evidence for you to put your case, but right now not much soo..

No one is denying the fact that bowlers win you matches. But we are discussing CURRENT Pakistani fast bowlers BARRING Amir. Those two wins in England were due to Amir/Asif who are good bowlers and no one is arguing that Indian bowlers are equal to them. We are talking of Rahat/Wahab here.

Wahab had a 5 fer in Oval but that was his only 5 fer. Ishant, a similarly mediocre bowler has a 7fer in Lords which led us to victory.

 

[waleed88]

In 2010 you had a better bowling attack than India for English conditions no doubt.. Amir and Asif inform in favorable conditions.. But current Pakistani bowling attack minus Amir (who himself isn't in best of forms yet) is probably your worse for ages..

We'll have to see, give us a full calendar year of tours abroad first.. to average out the lack of exposure our current bowlers have had

 

[waleed88]

No one is denying the fact that bowlers win you matches. But we are discussing CURRENT Pakistani fast bowlers BARRING Amir. Those two wins in England were due to Amir/Asif who are good bowlers and no one is arguing that Indian bowlers are equal to them. We are talking of Rahat/Wahab here.

Wahab had a 5 fer in Oval but that was his only 5 fer. Ishant, a similarly mediocre bowler has a 7fer in Lords which led us to victory.

After playing a full calendar year in 2010, and then 2014, and some good performances in 2007, Ishant cannot be compared to Wahab who has played only two test matches before this test match series, with his 3rd and 4th being after 6 years.. (talking about foreign conditions here)

 

[waleed88]

In 2010 you had a better bowling attack than India for English conditions no doubt.. Amir and Asif inform in favorable conditions.. But current Pakistani bowling attack minus Amir (who himself isn't in best of forms yet) is probably your worse for ages..

2010 was the last time we played in England/ Australia as well..

 

[big_gamer007]

We'll have to see, give us a full calendar year of tours abroad first.. to average out the lack of exposure our current bowlers have had

For your good I hope they improve.. Amir should ideally get only better by each passing day.. Wahab seems to be regressing and is very inconsistent.. Rahat Ali is average don't feel he will become a world beater.. Haven't seen Sohail Khan or Imran Khan but people here have been talking about them a lot so maybe it is better to invest in either of them for next 2 tests.. How do you rate those two compared to current form of Wahab/Rahat?

 

[big_gamer007]

After playing a full calendar year in 2010, and then 2014, and some good performances in 2007, Ishant cannot be compared to Wahab who has played only two test matches before this test match series, with his 3rd and 4th being after 6 years.. (talking about foreign conditions here)

Ishant and Wahab both are pretty mediocre tbh.. They are totally comparable

 

[LahoreWala]

Good thread. I think Rahat and Wahab are comparable to to the Indian pacers of today. I still rate Amir higher. He's played two test matches after five years. It'll take some time for him to get back into form. Headingly can possibly be a turning point.

Besides from Amir, the other two previously mentioned are probably similar in ability to the current Indian quicks in the fact that they have no consistency in their line and length, while going for plenty of runs. Off the top of my head, I remember seeing Yadav go for 5 an over in the Australia tour at one point.

The jury is still out on Imran Khan since he has not gotten a go in this tour as of yet, but considering his impressive record in the dead tracks of the UAE, you'd think he could have better control than Rahat and Wahab.

 

[big_gamer007]

2010 was the last time we played in England/ Australia as well..

Yes and that time you had an extremely potent attack suited perfectly for the conditions... But we are talking about 2016 right now right?

 

[big_gamer007]

The jury is still out on Imran Khan since he has not gotten a go in this tour as of yet, but considering his impressive record in the dead tracks of the UAE, you'd think he could have better control than Rahat and Wahab.

If that's the case why has he not been in the starting 11? Any ideas? Would you include him inplace of Wahab for 3rd test?

 

[waleed88]

Yes and that time you had an extremely potent attack suited perfectly for the conditions... But we are talking about 2016 right now right?

When you can give examples of your last tour in England, I am doing the same.. Wahab got a 5'fer on debut btw.. Unlike Ishant who's taken 3-4 tours to actually get it right in a span of 7 years

 

[geraltofrivia]

When you can give examples of your last tour in England, I am doing the same.. Wahab got a 5'fer on debut btw.. Unlike Ishant who's taken 3-4 tours to actually get it right in a span of 7 years

Maybe because the bowling lineup on our last tour of England is the same as our current bowling lineup?

 

[waleed88]

For your good I hope they improve.. Amir should ideally get only better by each passing day.. Wahab seems to be regressing and is very inconsistent.. Rahat Ali is average don't feel he will become a world beater.. Haven't seen Sohail Khan or Imran Khan but people here have been talking about them a lot so maybe it is better to invest in either of them for next 2 tests.. How do you rate those two compared to current form of Wahab/Rahat?

Imran Khan is the same at same level as Rahat Ali, Imran would probably do as well as Amir is doing right now.. But Amir fans here won't agree to this I think Amir has been the biggest disappointment so far for me..
He has underformed for the 'talent' he has..

 

[waleed88]

Maybe because the bowling lineup on our last tour of England is the same as our current bowling lineup?

Well fortunately or unfortunately that is the limited amount of exposure we have had in this time, so a proper comparison cannot be made until we get rid of attritional bias that favors heavily in favor of Indian bowlers because the sample size is negligble compared to the Indian bowlers

 

[big_gamer007]

When you can give examples of your last tour in England, I am doing the same.. Wahab got a 5'fer on debut btw.. Unlike Ishant who's taken 3-4 tours to actually get it right in a span of 7 years

I am not understanding your point here.. Wahab and Ishant both are mediocre bowlers, I haven't followed Wahab throughout his career but he might have had a better career than Ishant I don't know but on current form which this topic is about both are pretty Mediocre and are comparable.. It's a simple point which I think everyone would agree with... Why are you trying to complicate it?

 

[Mamoon]

Too much nitpicking going on.

The reality is that as a pure right-handed swing bowler, there is no competition for Bhuvneshwar in the Pakistan team right now, so he definitely walks into our lineup and shares the new ball with Amir.

Wahab and Rahat simply can't match him in English conditions.

There is also a small matter of the fact that he is way better with the bat than any of our tail-enders.

Ishant is inconsistent but in Test cricket, he is a more proven performer than Wahab and Rahat so will probably play over them as well.

Shami, Wahab and Rahat are pretty much the same in Tests. Hence, in a 3 man pace attack, it is definitely India 2:1 Pakistan.

For the fourth pacer, flip the coin between Wahab, Rahat and Shami.

The conclusion is that Pakistani is definitely not better than India in the fast bowling department at the moment.

 

[big_gamer007]

Imran Khan is the same at same level as Rahat Ali, Imran would probably do as well as Amir is doing right now.. But Amir fans here won't agree to this I think Amir has been the biggest disappointment so far for me..
He has underformed for the 'talent' he has..

I see, will you bring in Imran Khan for Wahab for 3rd test??

Amir is back after a long lay off give him some time he will get it right, he is still your best bet to carry the bowling attack for next 7-10 years..

 

[waleed88]

I see, will you bring in Imran Khan for Wahab for 3rd test??

Amir is back after a long lay off give him some time he will get it right, he is still your best bet to carry the bowling attack for next 7-10 years..

most likely.. Imran Khan for Amir if he is unfit for 3rd test..

 

[waleed88]

I am not understanding your point here.. Wahab and Ishant both are mediocre bowlers, I haven't followed Wahab throughout his career but he might have had a better career than Ishant I don't know but on current form which this topic is about both are pretty Mediocre and are comparable.. It's a simple point which I think everyone would agree with... Why are you trying to complicate it?

I'm saying give him the same number of games as Ishant in foreign conditions.. then maybe it would be a fair comparison.. Wahab has played only 4 games in foreign soil uptil now (this game being his 4th).. how hard is it for you to understand this simple point?
In these games Wahab has gotten a 5'fer once.. and I think he can do it again if he gets more games under his belt..

 

[big_gamer007]

I'm saying give him the same number of games as Ishant in foreign conditions.. then maybe it would be a fair comparison.. Wahab has played only 4 games in foreign soil uptil now (this game being his 4th).. how hard is it for you to understand this simple point?
In these games Wahab has gotten a 5'fer once.. and I think he can do it again if he gets more games under his belt..

He has got plenty of time now, next 1 year you guys play lots of matches overseas so we will see how good he turns out to be.. Don't have high hopes from him but won't mind him proving me wrong..

 

[waleed88]

He has got plenty of time now, next 1 year you guys play lots of matches overseas so we will see how good he turns out to be.. Don't have high hopes from him but won't mind him proving me wrong..

Yes that is what I've been trying to say.. thank you for understanding my point

 

[street cricketer]

I'm just happy my thread became a hit thread

 

[Syed1]

I'm just happy my thread became a hit thread

I saw right through your motives that is why generally kept away from this thread..

 

[Chief Destroyer]

England's bowlers looked even more ordinary despite getting overcast, if that says anything.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Apart from Aamir, i think our attack is actually better. They bowl to a plan and are pretty accurate. I saw umesh and Shami swing the ball and maintain decent speeds. What pakistan do have is a world class leg spinner and as good as Ash is i don't think he can ever be as good as Yasir. Of course, if aamir actually starts living upto the hype, then it's a different scenario altogether.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Indian batsmen do better than Pakistani batsman on green/bouncy tracks, Indian batsmen are better.
Pakistani bowlers do better than Indian bowlers on flat tracks, Indian bowlers are better.

Great logic!

 

[The_Odd_One]

Apart from Aamir, i think our attack is actually better. They bowl to a plan and are pretty accurate. I saw umesh and Shami swing the ball and maintain decent speeds. What pakistan do have is a world class leg spinner and as good as Ash is i don't think he can ever be as good as Yasir. Of course, if aamir actually starts living upto the hype, then it's a different scenario altogether.

Kindly enlighten me what plan Indian bowlers had when McCallum smashed that triple and NZ scored 680 runs or when Australia was posting 500+ runs in almost every match?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Kindly enlighten me what plan Indian bowlers had when McCallum smashed that triple and NZ scored 680 runs or when Australia was posting 500+ runs in almost every match?

Remind me what happened when mcculum and NZ smashed 700 in your so called fortress called the UAE and when was the last time time you even toured Australia? We played in 2011 and 2014 on super flat roads where your attack will get smashed later this year.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Remind me what happened when mcculum and NZ smashed 700 in your so called fortress called the UAE and when was the last time time you even toured Australia? We played in 2011 and 2014 on super flat roads where your attack will get smashed later this year.

But but but UAE has flat tracks. Should not give any credit to Pakistani batsmen to score runs on those pattas.

And and and Kohli smashed so many centuries in Australia on not so flat tracks but when Indian bowlers bowled on them then they became flat.

Have a nice day!

 

[Nikhil_cric]

But but but UAE has flat tracks. Should not give any credit to Pakistani batsmen to score runs on those pattas.

And and and Kohli smashed so many centuries in Australia on not so flat tracks but when Indian bowlers bowled on them then they became flat.

Have a nice day!

UAE tracks do offer some reverse brother Australian pitches offer nothing. Anyway aren't pakistani bowlers supposed to be extraordinary talents who are pitch agnostic? You did well in the last five years thanks to a chucker and now a phenomenal leg spinner who is the envy of every other Test playing nation. Not because of your ordinary pace attack.

 

[Zak_Fan]

England's bowlers looked even more ordinary despite getting overcast, if that says anything.

What nonsense. Do you realize that two English pacers are averaging 8 and 19 in this series?

 

[The_Odd_One]

UAE tracks do offer some reverse brother Australian pitches offer nothing. Anyway aren't pakistani bowlers supposed to be extraordinary talents who are pitch agnostic? You did well in the last five years thanks to a chucker and now a phenomenal leg spinner who is the envy of every other Test playing nation. Not because of your ordinary pace attack.

They might not be very good but they are still better than Indian fast bowlers because they have performed better despite bowling in conditions which are less fast bowling friendly.

And India did not just play series in Australia. They have lost in England and NZ too because of their bowling.

And BTW, Abdul Rehman was a very good support spinner. He also rattled England's batting order. It was not just chucker Ajmal.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What nonsense. Do you realize that two English pacers are averaging 8 and 19 in this series?

View attachment 68645

Don't show him facts . More important is whether English bowlers swung the ball or not

 

[joly]

Shami, Bhuvi and Ishant are better than Wahab, Rahat, Imran and Sohail.

honest post ,
have been since 2013

 

[joly]

The only reason Pakistan is doing decently in this series is because of the legend in the making Yasir's great control. The pacers are toothless for a long time now

 

[Abhilash93]

Too much talk of historical averages...No analysis on current bowling form.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Too much talk of historical averages...No analysis on current bowling form.

Pace bowling in tests from the end of 2015 WC till 20th July 2016

Australia - 197 wickets @26.89
England - 284 wickets @27.08
India - 41 wickets @30.53
NZ - 111 wickets@40.39
Pakistan - 65 wickets@ 38.63
SA- 82 wickets@ 29.19
SL - 116 wickets @ 32.29
WI - 64 wickets @ 44.92

@sensible_indian_fan [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION]



I'll leave it to PP to judge who has the better bowling attack in tests on current form Jai Shri Ram

 

[Abhilash93]

Pace bowling in tests from the end of 2015 WC till 20th July 2016

Australia - 197 wickets @26.89 [emoji144]
England - 284 wickets @27.08
India - 41 wickets @30.53
NZ - 111 wickets@40.39
Pakistan - 65 wickets@ 38.63
SA- 82 wickets@ 29.19
SL - 116 wickets @ 32.29
WI - 64 wickets @ 44.92

@sensible_indian_fan [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION]



I'll leave it to PP to judge who has the better bowling attack in tests on current form Jai Shri Ram

Haha

By current form, I meant a qualitative analysis based on their bowling abilities (by someone who has seen both sets of bowlers bowl recently) not averages [emoji14]

 

[Zak_Fan]

Don't show him facts . More important is whether English bowlers swung the ball or not

They are hopelessly delusional about their pace bowling. I am reaching a point where I won't even bother debate. It is far more convenient to watch their "Phaast" ones take a phainty and have a good laugh.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They are hopelessly delusional about their pace bowling. I am reaching a point where I won't even bother debate. It is far more convenient to watch their "Phaast" ones take a phainty and have a good laugh.

Yep. There's absolutely no point debating some delusional posters. Only OZ and england have exceptional pace attacks based on the evidence of last 1.5 years. Pakistan and NZ pace bowling in tests is massively overrated as i've shown above. SL/India/SA all have Ok'ish seam attacks and that's it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's a shame this thread was created with relation to India, so I can only assume there is an element of trolling involved. But if we ignore that, the Pakistan pace attack Amir, apart, is really poor with the new ball. Rahat bowls his best delivery, the outswinger to the left hander as a stock ball because he has no variety. Wahab is the opposite, he bowls only the inswinger to the left handers, again he has no variety. It must be so easy to form a plan against such predictable bowling.

 

[ethan hunt]

Apart from Aamir, i think our attack is actually better. They bowl to a plan and are pretty accurate. I saw umesh and Shami swing the ball and maintain decent speeds. What pakistan do have is a world class leg spinner and as good as Ash is i don't think he can ever be as good as Yasir. Of course, if aamir actually starts living upto the hype, then it's a different scenario altogether.

You wouldnt need to argue if they were decent enough.
The fact that they conceded 350 in almost every overseas test leading upto losses tells you alot doesnt it .
And i dont rate rahat and wahab btw.

 

[cric_lover]

It's a shame this thread was created with relation to India, so I can only assume there is an element of trolling involved. But if we ignore that, the Pakistan pace attack Amir, apart, is really poor with the new ball. Rahat bowls his best delivery, the outswinger to the left hander as a stock ball because he has no variety. Wahab is the opposite, he bowls only the inswinger to the left handers, again he has no variety. It must be so easy to form a plan against such predictable bowling.

There is no shame in admitting that your bowling attack is low quality in spite of all the chest thumping

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is no shame in admitting that your bowling attack is low quality in spite of all the chest thumping

I wouldn't describe it as low quality, just not particularly high quality and too reliant on reverse swing, which they won't get at Old Trafford. And India's bowlers are irrelevant to this general statement, I'm not sure why they have even been mentioned in the first place.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

What nonsense. Do you realize that two English pacers are averaging 8 and 19 in this series?

View attachment 68645

They're bowling to the most limited batting lineup in the world. And I was talking about the opening spell before end of play.

You don't need to show me the damn stats, I watched the game unlike you.

 

[blue_champion]

How is M Amir super talented and Rahat Ali a mediocre trundlers when Rahat has outperformed Amir in every possible way.....not that Rahat has got cheap wickets while Amir has ripped through the English line up....Infact Rahat bowler the best spell by a Pakistani fast bowler in this series in the 2nd innings.

Don't get it

 

[geraltofrivia]

How is M Amir super talented and Rahat Ali a mediocre trundlers when Rahat has outperformed Amir in every possible way.....not that Rahat has got cheap wickets while Amir has ripped through the English line up....Infact Rahat bowler the best spell by a Pakistani fast bowler in this series in the 2nd innings.

Don't get it

The hype is due to pre ban. Since comeback Amir avgs 38 in Tests .

 

[TheNightWatchman]

The pace attack was never that great to begin with. Pak won all their matches by spin

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How is M Amir super talented and Rahat Ali a mediocre trundlers when Rahat has outperformed Amir in every possible way.....not that Rahat has got cheap wickets while Amir has ripped through the English line up....Infact Rahat bowler the best spell by a Pakistani fast bowler in this series in the 2nd innings.

Don't get it

Amir has the ability to move the ball both ways, Rahat doesn't, no matter what the stats from the series so far might say. Amir's also had four dropped catches off his bowling which has made his figures look worse.

 

[Swaraj!!]

A lot of responses on the quality of Indian pacers seems to have the recency bias from the WI test. I just wonder how would these three have coped if they were faced with Cook/Root going full steam. I don't know if we will get an answer to that in this series though.

All in all, this is the first test for Indian pacers in quite a while. Our quality cannot be certified until they have a stiffer match than they will come across in this series.

We might as well shelve this thread until another year has gone by.

 

[geraltofrivia]

A lot of responses on the quality of Indian pacers seems to have the recency bias from the WI test. I just wonder how would these three have coped if they were faced with Cook/Root going full steam. I don't know if we will get an answer to that in this series though.

All in all, this is the first test for Indian pacers in quite a while. Our quality cannot be certified until they have a stiffer match than they will come across in this series.

We might as well shelve this thread until another year has gone by.

Pakistani pacers have done badly as ours in our overseas leg. WI tour has nothing to do with it.

 

[Prince_]

Why r u barring amir. What's so special about him?

 

[Indiafan]

Amir has the ability to move the ball both ways, Rahat doesn't, no matter what the stats from the series so far might say. Amir's also had four dropped catches off his bowling which has made his figures look worse.

Out of that 4 catches, some where of the same batsman so he was not going to take those wickets twice. Rahat has set up the batsmen for his wickets

Rahat has the ability to extract bounce from good length, Amir doesn't no matter what the stats say. The extra bounce contributed to Rahat's wickets

 

[Indiafan]

A lot of responses on the quality of Indian pacers seems to have the recency bias from the WI test. I just wonder how would these three have coped if they were faced with Cook/Root going full steam. I don't know if we will get an answer to that in this series though.

All in all, this is the first test for Indian pacers in quite a while. Our quality cannot be certified until they have a stiffer match than they will come across in this series.

We might as well shelve this thread until another year has gone by.

Do you watch only Indian matches?

 

[jusarrived]

The problem with Paks pace attack is that 3 left armers make it a bit one dimensional ..the adjustments a batsmen needs to make it playing Amir , Wahab or Rahat is less . They need to play a right arm bowler even if hes inferior to these bowlers skill imo

 

[street cricketer]

A lot of responses on the quality of Indian pacers seems to have the recency bias from the WI test. I just wonder how would these three have coped if they were faced with Cook/Root going full steam. I don't know if we will get an answer to that in this series though.

All in all, this is the first test for Indian pacers in quite a while. Our quality cannot be certified until they have a stiffer match than they will come across in this series.

We might as well shelve this thread until another year has gone by.

This was a one year trend. Not related to this match/tour only.

 

[Buffet]

Pace bowling in tests from the end of 2015 WC till 20th July 2016

Australia - 197 wickets @26.89
England - 284 wickets @27.08
India - 41 wickets @30.53
NZ - 111 wickets@40.39
Pakistan - 65 wickets@ 38.63
SA- 82 wickets@ 29.19
SL - 116 wickets @ 32.29
WI - 64 wickets @ 44.92

Pakistani fast bowlers having near 40 average may be due to doing really bad in ongoing test. When we talk about 40-50 wickets then just 1-2 matches will take it up and down by a big margin.

Anyway, Pakistan has done well in recent years mainly due to spin unit. Pace unit is a bit one dimensional with 3 left handers. It needs to have some variety. Indian pace attack is not really a great one to begin with so why even compare these two attacks. Both pace attacks are average.

 

[aslaisnomasla]

Was this on the same pitch were Indian bowlers restricted Pak to 118 all out yet Amir took only 1 wicket? Or are you confusing with Asia cup where Indian bowlers restricted Pak to 83

no I am actually talking about the t20 worldcup doctored pitch where darter jadeja was turning miles. you forgot forgot sharma , rehanay and raina's wicket?

 

[Indiafan]

no I am actually talking about the t20 worldcup doctored pitch where darter jadeja was turning miles. you forgot forgot sharma , rehanay and raina's wicket?

Yes, you are confused. That was the Asia cup in Bangladesh. Here's the scorecard

http://www.espncricinfo.com/asia-cup-2015-16/engine/current/match/966751.html

Hardik Pandya took 3 for 8 on the same pitch

 

[aslaisnomasla]

Yes, you are confused. That was the Asia cup in Bangladesh. Here's the scorecard

http://www.espncricinfo.com/asia-cup-2015-16/engine/current/match/966751.html

Hardik Pandya took 3 for 8 on the same pitch

yeah my bad I got it all mixedup but the point is amir did own indian batsmen accept for friendly kohli where he actually decided to give his bat to amir to mellow things down.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Why r u barring amir. What's so special about him?

Hype.

 

[The_KING]

Why r u barring amir. What's so special about him?

This. It's time my fellow Pakistani fans get over this Amir guy. He is nothing special.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistani fast bowlers having near 40 average may be due to doing really bad in ongoing test. When we talk about 40-50 wickets then just 1-2 matches will take it up and down by a big margin.

Anyway, Pakistan has done well in recent years mainly due to spin unit. Pace unit is a bit one dimensional with 3 left handers. It needs to have some variety. Indian pace attack is not really a great one to begin with so why even compare these two attacks. Both pace attacks are average.

This was excluding ongoing test.

 

[Pakpak]

Our pace attack is a disaster. Even our good test match performances have been due to spin bowling, not pace.

 

[Pakpak]

Yes, you are confused. That was the Asia cup in Bangladesh. Here's the scorecard

http://www.espncricinfo.com/asia-cup-2015-16/engine/current/match/966751.html

Hardik Pandya took 3 for 8 on the same pitch

Pandaya was bowling to lollipops for batsmen. Our bowlers were bowling to a top quality gun batting line-up.

 

[Pakpak]

The problem with Paks pace attack is that 3 left armers make it a bit one dimensional ..the adjustments a batsmen needs to make it playing Amir , Wahab or Rahat is less . They need to play a right arm bowler even if hes inferior to these bowlers skill imo

Someone with a sensible post, at last

 

[Mainul]

I always rate present Indian pace bowling barring Ishant higher than that of Pakistan. Wahab and Rahat are average bowler but Shami and Umesh are not, they are good.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistani fast bowlers having near 40 average may be due to doing really bad in ongoing test. When we talk about 40-50 wickets then just 1-2 matches will take it up and down by a big margin.

Anyway, Pakistan has done well in recent years mainly due to spin unit. Pace unit is a bit one dimensional with 3 left handers. It needs to have some variety. Indian pace attack is not really a great one to begin with so why even compare these two attacks. Both pace attacks are average.

In fact, after recently concluded tests, it is

73 wickets @ 40.04 for Pakistani seamers and
51 wickets @ 29.07 for Indian seamers.

Ram knows best. I'll leave it to you all to judge

 

[Pakpak]

In fact, after recently concluded tests, it is

73 wickets @ 40.04 for Pakistani seamers and
51 wickets @ 29.07 for Indian seamers.

Ram knows best. I'll leave it to you all to judge

Your pace attack is decent, people would admit it too if you and your Indians friends don't spend half their time gloating and trolling.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your pace attack is decent, people would admit it too if you and your Indians friends don't spend half their time gloating and trolling.

Bhai we never gloat about our pace attack.Never.Thanks for accepting that its decent.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Your pace attack is decent, people would admit it too if you and your Indians friends don't spend half their time gloating and trolling.

Pakpak Bhai you are a good poster and this is not directed at you. I just posted it to serve as an eye opener for those who still think Pakistani pace attack is miles ahead of ours currently when the facts show that this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[ethan hunt]

In fact, after recently concluded tests, it is

73 wickets @ 40.04 for Pakistani seamers and
51 wickets @ 29.07 for Indian seamers.

Ram knows best. I'll leave it to you all to judge

Rahat and wahab and pretty one dimentional and mediocre but 1 year stats dont make sense . Thats not a big enough sample.size . Teams would have hardly played many tests in that period .
A 5- 6 year cycle would be more relevant.

 

[EliteCynical]

yeah my bad I got it all mixedup but the point is amir did own indian batsmen accept for friendly kohli where he actually decided to give his bat to amir to mellow things down.

I see. Didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sandeep]

I felt this was a joke. I never really watched much of Pakistan in UAE, so couldn't comment. Having closely seen the bowling performances at Lords and Old Trafford, I can say that Pakistan is only just about better than India. Lords was saved by Yasir Shah, who I think is a phenomenon. I felt Rahat Ali was very good and bowled pretty well at Lords, but was pedestrian in Manchester. Wahab Riaz was terrific at Lords once the ball got old. He is all passion and no brain kind of bowler. He can bowl those occasional terrific spells, but mediocre most of the times. Ahem, Amir - I'm a fan. However, he looked pretty ordinary to me. Probably because he's coming back after a long time and may not have the full fitness. Anyway, Pakistan attack is by no means a world beating attack. It's good on its days but mostly mediocre.

 

[Salman CricBio]

Pakistani bowling line up seems ordinary.

Saw many people criticizing our batsmen and their shot selection but I think that our bowling is directly proportional to our victory. We need performance from our seamers. They seem to be ordinary, Lord's was a one man show as Yasir was the only successful bowlers. Otherwise, Amir bowled a few good spells, Wahab was pretty average and Rahat was pathetic.

I guess Rahat should be dropped and Sohail should be added. Can not drop Wahab as he is the best reverse swing bowler we have and he can pressurize the batsman with his pace.

Shan doesn't deserve more chances, should try Sami Aslam straight away!

 

[Prince_]

Amir struggled in the t20 Asia cup and got hammered by Indian and Bangladeshi batters.


He was taken to the cleaners by kiwis and aussies in the recently finished t20 world Cup and now he's even struggling to perform in tests in his favourite haunting ground England!!


So it's quite safe to say that he has been playing mediocre cricket and struggling to fit in international cricket since his come back.


Wahab is a one spell wonder boy who doesn't deserve a spot in the playing 11 (don't know whether S.khan or any other fast bowler from Pakistan is good enough to replace him since Pak doesn't have as many bowling talent as they used to have in 90s)


Rahat too is one dimensional and ordinary.


The only bowler who can be considered as a decent bowler from the present Pak squad is Yasir even though I believe that he was quite lucky and got quite a few cheap wickets in the first test against England.


So ya, there's no doubt that the Pak Bowling strength is highly overrated and it's in no way better than that of India.

 

[Lords]

If i am not wrong then M Amir was played as trump card and main difference between the two teams. Even England gave him his due respect, i think he couldnt live up to the expectations.
Since his return he was outdone by one average bowler or another, havent really seen a match winning performance from him yet except few good spells here and there.

Not sure when will he get to tour england again but this is the time for him to make history and be part of good history books.

 

[Salman CricBio]

If i am not wrong then M Amir was played as trump card and main difference between the two teams. Even England gave him his due respect, i think he couldnt live up to the expectations.
Since his return he was outdone by one average bowler or another, havent really seen a match winning performance from him yet except few good spells here and there.

Not sure when will he get to tour england again but this is the time for him to make history and be part of good history books.

Off-course. He is playing cricket after a gap of 6 years. In Lord's, head coach Mickey Arthur said that Amir told him that he was not able to grip the bowl. I hope he comes better in the upcoming matches.

But I still believe that Waqar Younis should not have been sacked. PCB should have waited for this series. He would have helped our bowlers, for sure.