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Have Sajid Khan & Noman Ali’s performance proved that Ravichandran Ashwin & Ravindra Jadeja are nothing special?

I always had the impression that mamoon is the biggest supporter of Indian team but now he speaks against them, what have I missed?
 
Mamoon said:
Quality of spin bowling outside Asia in the last 10 years or so has been very poor. Bowlers like Moeen Ali have been frontline spinners in Test cricket who is barely better than a part-time bowler. None of the teams who have toured India regularly in this period have had good enough spinners which has made Ashwin and Jadeja look better than they are.
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I guess the same applies for visiting pacers as well given how they have done comapred to Indian pacers in the same list.

Should we conclude that all visitors pacers and spinners have been low quality because they have not been able to do well in India despite Ashwin/Jadeja/Bumrah/Shami averaging near 20?

I won't say that. I will give credit to bowlers who did well and move on.
 
followed said:
India produce the worst pitches. They start turning from day 1.

A bang average spinner like akshar Patel averages 18 in India and that guy doesn't even turn ball an inch. He just darts the ball yet he is so successful on these tailored wickets.

Had chacha Nauman played in India he would have picked wickets in heaps. He is much better than akshar guy.

Those pitches help Ashwin and jadeja a lot.
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I believe Nauman would have picked like 8 WPM of it were Indian Wickets, Something like 300 Wickets in 40 odd tests @ about 15-17 average.
 
shaz619 said:
Yes, Bashir and Hartley did well in India as well. The rookies.

But we also need to recognise Babar Azam is nothing special either.
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Bashir did well? LOL :ROFLMAO: ... he got thrashed left and right. He averaged 35 in India on the so-called spin-friendly pitches you're talking about, and his current average is 50 in Pakistan. :ROFLMAO:

Heartly also averaged 35, but he at least took 22 wickets in 5 tests. This Bashir guy is a joke, and you are projecting him as a match-winning performer.
 
Cover Drive Six said:
Bashir did well? LOL :ROFLMAO: ... he got thrashed left and right. He averaged 35 in India on the so-called spin-friendly pitches you're talking about, and his current average is 50 in Pakistan. :ROFLMAO:

Heartly also averaged 35, but he at least took 22 wickets in 5 tests. This Bashir guy is a joke, and you are projecting him as a match-winning performer.
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Both guys won a Test when they had no right to, they were effective on the same pitches
 
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Jadeja? Absolutely. He is far less skilled than many counterparts as a test bowler for the number of wickets he has. He relies on the arm ball, natural variation and line/length. Pitch "doctoring" is the bonus for him to chip away at wickets when these natural sliders or straighteners aren't eliciting enough on their own. Additionally, from the perspective of his opposition, India is a touring place where its not a matter of if but when insofar as wickets to spin are concerned. Even Axar who has the arm ball, release point, and variation from release was made to look prodigious due to the exaggeration of this "when, not if" doctored pitch factor during his run.

Jadeja is often paired with Ashwin (and vice-versa) because both in home conditions - thanks to opposition also struggling to make Indias absolute advantage just a comparative one - can enact as two first choice spinners whilst simultaneously being number 7 bats, despite Jadeja being an inferior changeover bowler who is just sufficiently above average within his limitation of bowling skillset.

You get the idea of this looking at Jadeja barely having 76 wickets overseas at 33 a scalp. And he has, what, around 300+ otherwise? He has a protected privilege where he is treated as an addendum changeover abroad thanks to the dominance of Indian pacers in SENA - and him chipping the lower order runs. Ashwin, who then plays as the specialist spinner is a whole other story (especially in Australia and the two SA tours) - and the blind eye turned by a portion of Indian fans, especially after he wasn't played in that England series and rightfully so.
 
Kroll said:
Ashwin and Jadeja have had it easy but I think Ashwin does have skills as compared to Jaddu who tends to dart them in and is more interested in social media.

This doctoring of pitches has made their successors Kuldeep, Chahal and Axar look like world beaters. When in fact they're also bang average and basically need to just turn up and let the doctored pitches do all the work.
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Bang on. I rate Ashwin but the rest look meh compared to him. Jadeja's batting and fielding somewhat masks his overrated bowling.
 
Just watched the highlights as couldn't catch the game live. My honest assessment is both the spinners are very average. It was more of a case of poor batting by England than some extra ordinary bowling. English batter can't play spin at all, no defence or proper technique against it. That's why there were so many reverse sweeps which is an indication they have no clue how to play spin. Just check how Ben Stokes was batting.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but both these bowlers were not a patch on Ashwin & Jadeja.
 
Technics 1210 said:
It tell me that W/L ratios do not matter in tournaments, only trophies matter.

:)
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Yeah.... That's factually correct, but only half the truth.

It also tells us, that....

Indian players have worked hardest on the art of cricket,

and are the most proficient and skillful.


I mean, if you are really REALLY objective, you would have to Just marvel at the way Indians have owned this colonial game.
 
Buzzinga said:
By the way i don't remember when was the last time, two consecutive tests were played at the same venue and same surface within days. Talk about the doctoring and home advantage.
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I've seen fresh pitches that spin more
 
RahulBose said:
Yeah.... That's factually correct, but only half the truth.

It also tells us, that....

Indian players have worked hardest on the art of cricket,

and are the most proficient and skillful.


I mean, if you are really REALLY objective, you would have to Just marvel at the way Indians have owned this colonial game.
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It also tells us that they are the biggest chokers.
 
RahulBose said:
Yeah.... That's factually correct, but only half the truth.

It also tells us, that....

Indian players have worked hardest on the art of cricket,

and are the most proficient and skillful.


I mean, if you are really REALLY objective, you would have to Just marvel at the way Indians have owned this colonial game.
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It is not about owning a colonial game.

Pakistan has a superior head to head W/L against India. Now what?

What is true is no one remembers W/L ratios, the hard effort, the talent, nothing is remembered in a tournament unless you win the tournament.
 
Mamoon said:
It also tells us that they are the biggest chokers.
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I mean, when two teams play, one wins.

If you really want objective analysis of who plays better, you need a bigger sample size.... Simple stats.

Let them play for 10 games and find out who wins most.

A sample size of one is used by crackpot irrational people to arrive at any conclusion.
 
Technics 1210 said:
It is not about owning a colonial game.

Pakistan has a superior head to head W/L against India. Now what?

What is true is no one remembers W/L ratios, the hard effort, the talent, nothing is remembered in a tournament unless you win the tournament.
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And regarding that overall head to head... We all know what happens in recent times when these two teams meet.

Let's continue to live in present, rather than bask in past glory.
 
RahulBose said:
And regarding that overall head to head... We all know what happens in recent times when these two teams meet.

Let's continue to live in present, rather than bask in past glory.
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There you go.

You came back to pigeon hole a stat. I used your filter remember, now you want to live in the future? Or when you use W/L ratios it matters cos Indian fans want to live in past, present, and future?

This is why no one takes Indian fans seriously.
 
Technics 1210 said:
There you go.

You came back to pigeon hole a stat. I used your filter remember, now you want to live in the future? Or when you use W/L ratios it matters cos Indian fans want to live in past, present, and future?

This is why no one takes Indian fans seriously.
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Man, it is subtle... Read carefully.

We are interested in knowing who plays the game better.
For this we need to know who wins more.

But you can't use the data from last 50 years as that is not indicative of the ground realities of today.

You can at max use last 10 years data.
Actually you should be using last 5.

And then do some stat analysis to arrive at the order of cricketing abilities.
 
RahulBose said:
I mean, when two teams play, one wins.

If you really want objective analysis of who plays better, you need a bigger sample size.... Simple stats.

Let them play for 10 games and find out who wins most.

A sample size of one is used by crackpot irrational people to arrive at any conclusion.
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2014-2023 no trophies won. It is a big enough sample to conclude that India is a choker team. As far as H2H with Pakistan is concerned, no one asked India to not play Pakistan.
 
Building a reputation in Test cricket, the ultimate challenge, is like running a marathon.

Can’t judge a runner’s pedigree as a marathoner from a 100 metre sprint.

You can only recognise Test pedigree after loss of form, opponents sussing you out, injuries, though time.

These two Pakistani lads have barely started their journey.
 
Mamoon said:
2014-2023 no trophies won. It is a big enough sample to conclude that India is a choker team. As far as H2H with Pakistan is concerned, no one asked India to not play Pakistan.
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True, India did have a finals problem, but I think we are working on it. The last T20 wc was a proof that we are doing something about the problem, what is your next grievance.
 
I think Indian fans deep down know the truth. The limelight is shifting from India to back to England.

BCCI was controlling cricket for 15 years but has sod all to show for it other than Netflix documentaries, adverts, movies, IPL cheer leaders, and a few fluke trophies along the way.

This is not dominance of cricket, this is propaganda.
 
Ashwin v Sajid Khan
Jadeja v Noman Ali

2 x mouth watering comparisons
 
Its funny how Indian posters were right behind @Mamoon when he had things to say about Pakistan ...but as soon as he's started pointing flaws out in their logic, they have gotten behind him like a pack of hyenas.

I couldn't agree more with Mamoon here. Heck, even Bhajji has said back in the day that if him and Kumble had these wickets that Ashwin and Jadega have have since 2013, they would have had thousands of wickets each. What Mamoon is saying here has literally been said before and won't be the last time for it to be said. But Mamoon has actually given you a counterfactual too in that a bunch of nobodies (Noman and Sajid) did exactly what Ashwin and Jadega have been doing for years because of absolute minefields for wickets.

I don't think OP is insinuating that these are bad tactics - at least, I certainly am not. You gotta do what you gotta do to win and all the more power to the Indian team for that. Having said that, it really does bring into question the Indian hype machine that has turned above average to good bowlers like Ashwin and Jadega into legends - which, as Mamoon points out, they clearly are not. The Indian hype machine has done similar things with Bumrah, except Bumrah is better than Ashwin and Jadega but still not even remotely near the GOAT debate. But if you say a lie enough times, eventually it becomes the truth.
 
Lets apply the same logic to Pace bowling :

Next thread :

If India 'doctored' the wickets to be swing friendly like ENG,NZ,SAF

Bhuvi Kumar would be > Anderson
Mukesh Kumar would be > Hadlee
Praveen Kumar would be > Steyn

Every 'PHAAST' bowling record would be India's

But they did'nt have the 'SUPPORT SYSTEM' of the Eng/NZ,SAF.....

Neither they had the 'media propoganda'....

But you cannot discuss this with ENG/NZ/SAF because they have declared the three named above to be GOAT and are not conducive to a rational discussions....

In Summary, a certain ATG GOAT team, the epitome of fairplay and displays all that is great about our great game, One that never 'flukes' its wins and also never says other's victories is a 'Fluke' is 'prevented' from reaching its heights and successes it really deserves since it gained international status, because of some other country's 'Support system' 'media' & ' Propoganda'

Smokin...!

:Dah :gilly
 
ExpressPacer said:
I don't think OP is insinuating that these are bad tactics - at least, I certainly am not. You gotta do what you gotta do to win and all the more power to the Indian team for that. Having said that, it really does bring into question the Indian hype machine that has turned above average to good bowlers like Ashwin and Jadega into legends - which, as Mamoon points out, they clearly are not. The Indian hype machine has done similar things with Bumrah, except Bumrah is better than Ashwin and Jadega but still not even remotely near the GOAT debate. But if you say a lie enough times, eventually it becomes the truth.
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Indian bowling unit is actually one of the best in entire history of cricket. Clearly no visiting bowler has done anything close to pacers and spinners both in India. If that does not convince you, forget about home record. Just look at away record for bowling units in the last 10 years,


You can try to see how many teams have been stand out the same way in entire history for any 10 years of period. It will be only 2-3 bowling units and that will be it. If bowling like this won't be hyped then who will get hyped?


Away record of all bowling teams in the last 10 years:

QaulityOfBowlers.jpg


In the last 35 years, great Aus team had similar stand out record as bowling unit. I have not see great WI unit but I would expect they were similar stand out among peer group. As I said, I don't know if we can find more than 2-3 bolwing units in the last 50 years which was better in away conditions even if we forget home condition.

Some time it's better to simply acknowledge good bowling and move on. It's not a bad thing. I used away to show that Indian bowling unit has been stand out by a large marin in period like 10 years in away condition so it shouldn't be hard to imagine they will be stand out in home as well.

I expect their decline in the next 10 years because no bowling unit has been able to maintain this kind of record for more than a decade.
 
Laughable to compare Nauman, Sajid with Ashwin, Jadeja. The later are miles ahead in terms of experience, continous match winning performances, variety.
 
The OP forgot it wasn’t Indian propaganda but his OWN propaganda which made Ashwin and Jadeja as the best spinners/all rounders here on PP.
 
Technics 1210 said:
I think Indian fans deep down know the truth. The limelight is shifting from India to back to England.

BCCI was controlling cricket for 15 years but has sod all to show for it other than Netflix documentaries, adverts, movies, IPL cheer leaders, and a few fluke trophies along the way.

This is not dominance of cricket, this is propaganda.
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Ind will be the global cricketing superpower for the next 50 plus yrs and beyond. Those are hard cold facts .
 
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Buffet said:
Indian bowling unit is actually one of the best in entire history of cricket. Clearly no visiting bowler has done anything close to pacers and spinners both in India. If that does not convince you, forget about home record. Just look at away record for bowling units in the last 10 years,


You can try to see how many teams have been stand out the same way in entire history for any 10 years of period. It will be only 2-3 bowling units and that will be it. If bowling like this won't be hyped then who will get hyped?


Away record of all bowling teams in the last 10 years:

View attachment 146898


In the last 35 years, great Aus team had similar stand out record as bowling unit. I have not see great WI unit but I would expect they were similar stand out among peer group. As I said, I don't know if we can find more than 2-3 bolwing units in the last 50 years which was better in away conditions even if we forget home condition.

Some time it's better to simply acknowledge good bowling and move on. It's not a bad thing. I used away to show that Indian bowling unit has been stand out by a large marin in period like 10 years in away condition so it shouldn't be hard to imagine they will be stand out in home as well.

I expect their decline in the next 10 years because no bowling unit has been able to maintain this kind of record for more than a decade.
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"Indian bowling attack is actually one of the best in the history of cricket". I would really love to smoke some of whatever you had when you made this statement. Probably the same substance that Rohit consumed when he decided to bat against New Zealand in those conditions.

I do acknowledge that this attack has technically had the most success in India for an Indian attack. But it probably isn't even the best Indian attack. Playing on these doctored pitches, I don't rate their performances that high. As far as the away performance is concerned, being the best marginally compared to other teams over the last 10 years doesn't make them the best or one of the best attacks in history. That is a laughable statement. It might make them one of the bests in the last 10 years. But then again, this thread or my comment at least was about Ashwin and Jadega - please share their overseas stats to prove your point. The figure does not account for their individual performances and are likely influenced by other bowlers carrying them.
 
Mamoon said:
For the past decade, the Indian propaganda machine that promoted a bang average cricketer like Dhoni as a legend, a middling Test batsman like Kohli as a GOAT and a good fast bowler like Bumrah as a mixture of McGrath and Wasim Akram.

The same propaganda machine that drives all the popular narratives in contemporary cricket have also driven the narrative that Ashwin and Jadeja are spin bowling legends who would walk into most teams in history and only Warne and Muralitharan would be able to compete with them.

The reality is that all it took was one spin-assisted pitch for two spinners with absolutely no reputation and no recognition to completely dominate and pick up a 7 wicket haul and 8 wicket haul each.

At face value, Indian fans would tell you that the likes of Noman and Sajid wouldn’t even get into the Indian D team because they have so many superior spinners at their disposal and yet, these supposed nobodies have done exactly what Ashwin and Jadeja would have done to England on the same pitch.

India have been producing such pitches every year since 2013. If Sajid and Noman get to play 50+ Test matches at home on such pitches they would also end up with a massive tally of wickets at 22-23, replicating the contrived numbers of Ashwin and Jadeja that have created the perception that they are spin bowling legends.

This clearly goes to show that the success and legacy of those two Indian spinners are circumstantial and nothing to do with how good they are and everything to do with how much they have benefited from the nature of pitches.

In terms of skill and ability, they are no different than any spinner from Pakistan who been grinding in FC cricket but have not been allowed to play on spinning pitches coupled with the fact that PCB doesn’t arrange enough Tests in the first place.

There is no reason for Pakistani fans to look at Indian spinners with envy and wish they had similar bowlers in their arsenal. They already do, but you have not been using them.

I hope this is the beginning of a new chapter for Pakistan cricket at home and PCB recognizes the value of preparing spinning pitches at home and trusting your experienced spinners to do the job.

It might have taken 2 years and plenty of humiliating defeats but better late than never.
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Agree, that's the reason Jadeja and Ashwin have been a failure in oversees conditions , Ashwin is not even selected in playing eleven and Jadeja is sometime makes the 11 due to his fielding and useful contribution as a lower order batsman.
 
ExpressPacer said:
. As far as the away performance is concerned, being the best marginally compared to other teams over the last 10 years doesn't make them the best or one of the best attacks in history. That is a laughable statement. It might make them one of the bests in the last 10 years.
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For entire unit averaging 27.xx for 10 years playing away, that's not marginal , that's massive. Great Aus team had the same 27-28 average for each wicket. In another words, bowling unit is bowling out oppositions on average around 270-280 runs. That when playing away from home. What more you can ask.

Let me flip it since you seems to think that bowling oppositions for 270-280 runs for straight 10 years is not one of the best in history. Give me 4 examples of 10 years of bowling units and we can see what they did. Let's not include Great WI/Aus team because we all know about them.

Let's settle this then we can move into quality of spinners which you also think is ordinary. We can debate one by one.
 
I think confusion may be thinking entire bowling unit average vs some of the best bowlers average. It's not the same thing.

3 runs difference for two individual bowlers are not that huge because they share wickets with other 4 bowlers. But 3 runs difference by entire bowling unit is massive because then you are talking about one unit bowling out opposition at 280 vs 310. Historically, 3 runs difference in avg of bowling units has been a large difference.

Anyway, lets see some candidates for actual performance. Let's try to see any 3-4 good bowling units in the last 50 years and see where they land up.
 
Pitches play a huge role in a spinner's performance.... India has always produced some great spinners who destroyed very strong visiting batting lines at home but were rarely effective in the countries which rarely supported spinners.
Since 1/1/1970 (peak/starting era of famous Indian spin quartet) ... Indian spinners have best numbers at home (S/R and Ave). Worst numbers in NZ, Aus and Eng. Pakistan never prepared spinning wickets for Indian test teams hence Indian spinners have horrible numbers here in Pakistan.
1729350526245.png
 
Mamoon said:
For the past decade, the Indian propaganda machine that promoted a bang average cricketer like Dhoni as a legend, a middling Test batsman like Kohli as a GOAT and a good fast bowler like Bumrah as a mixture of McGrath and Wasim Akram.

The same propaganda machine that drives all the popular narratives in contemporary cricket have also driven the narrative that Ashwin and Jadeja are spin bowling legends who would walk into most teams in history and only Warne and Muralitharan would be able to compete with them.

The reality is that all it took was one spin-assisted pitch for two spinners with absolutely no reputation and no recognition to completely dominate and pick up a 7 wicket haul and 8 wicket haul each.

At face value, Indian fans would tell you that the likes of Noman and Sajid wouldn’t even get into the Indian D team because they have so many superior spinners at their disposal and yet, these supposed nobodies have done exactly what Ashwin and Jadeja would have done to England on the same pitch.

India have been producing such pitches every year since 2013. If Sajid and Noman get to play 50+ Test matches at home on such pitches they would also end up with a massive tally of wickets at 22-23, replicating the contrived numbers of Ashwin and Jadeja that have created the perception that they are spin bowling legends.

This clearly goes to show that the success and legacy of those two Indian spinners are circumstantial and nothing to do with how good they are and everything to do with how much they have benefited from the nature of pitches.

In terms of skill and ability, they are no different than any spinner from Pakistan who been grinding in FC cricket but have not been allowed to play on spinning pitches coupled with the fact that PCB doesn’t arrange enough Tests in the first place.

There is no reason for Pakistani fans to look at Indian spinners with envy and wish they had similar bowlers in their arsenal. They already do, but you have not been using them.

I hope this is the beginning of a new chapter for Pakistan cricket at home and PCB recognizes the value of preparing spinning pitches at home and trusting your experienced spinners to do the job.

It might have taken 2 years and plenty of humiliating defeats but better late than never.
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You are right on Ashwin and Jadeja, they are not the legends but I would say that they are a beast in helpfull conditions.
In my opinion if a spinner who have the ability to destroy oppositions on helpfull wickets, he only can be decent on flat wickets. Here you are wrong that Sajid and Nauman are nobody, they would have been atleast decent in the first test against Eng. And the new guys like Abrar and co. would just have done a decent job on this turning track as well and the result would have been in favour of Eng again.
 
Ashwin and Jadeja are also borderline greats but not true ATGs like Tendulkar, Gavaskar and Dravid in Tests.
 
This thread is yet another example of how narratives run cricket - the idea that pitches in India spin more than anywhere else being one.

Unfortunately, that's simply not true and purely driven by those who have agendas

Screenshot_2024-10-20-16-37-34-98_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

This was an analysis done in 2021. Back then the narrative was that Yasir would have outbowled Ash and Jadeja because Indian pitches spun more than UAE pitches.
 
Pakistan spinner Noman Ali has climbed back to 17th in the Test bowlers rankings after taking 11 wickets in two innings against England. Meanwhile, his teammate Sajid Khan has jumped 22 places to 50th in the latest ICC Test bowler rankings.
 
Sajid and noman are already making it difficult for England.

Sajid has taken 2 and Noman has 1 wicket so far.
 
There is literally 0 difference between the respective skill-sets of these spinners. It just goes to show how artificial the success and legacies of most current Indian cricketers are.

Pant and Bumrah are great, others are bang average including Kohli himself who is not even good enough to average 49 but is apparently a King and GOAT 🤡
 
On a pitch that is apparently showing extraordinary assistance to spin, such comparisons are odious.

Narendra Hirwani must be the greatest spinner of all time basis his first Test on a rank spinner in Madras.

Let these two each play for 20-30 Tests more, across all conditions and opposition, only then they may just be worthy enough to even begin a comparison.

Right now they’re not even in the frame.

However, in this game itself, and the one before, the Pakistani spinners have done and are doing a fantastic job.
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
On a pitch that is apparently showing extraordinary assistance to spin, such comparisons are odious.

Narendra Hirwani must be the greatest spinner of all time basis his first Test on a rank spinner in Madras.

Let these two each play for 20-30 Tests more, across all conditions and opposition, only then they may just be worthy enough to even begin a comparison.

Right now they’re not even in the frame.

However, in this game itself, and the one before, the Pakistani spinners have done and are doing a fantastic job.
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Ashwin is a monumental failure on pitches that don’t turn, and you would expect Sajid and Noman to fail on those wickets too, hence the comparison between their skill-sets.

The question is - had these two played every single home Test for India instead of Ashwin and Jadeja, would their records be significantly different? Would the results of those matches be significantly different? I would say no.
 
Ashwin and Jadeja bundled out England in a session where india scored above 700 runs .

Noman and Sajid can't even do in their dreams .
 
Mamoon said:
Ashwin is a monumental failure on pitches that don’t turn, and you would expect Sajid and Noman to fail on those wickets too, hence the comparison between their skill-sets.

The question is - had these two played every single home Test for India instead of Ashwin and Jadeja, would their records be significantly different? Would the results of those matches be significantly different? I would say no.
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I can’t answer hypotheticals.

Let these two play more Tests for Pakistan and we’ll get sone kind of an answer.
 
followed said:
India produce the worst pitches. They start turning from day 1.

A bang average spinner like akshar Patel averages 18 in India and that guy doesn't even turn ball an inch. He just darts the ball yet he is so successful on these tailored wickets.

Had chacha Nauman played in India he would have picked wickets in heaps. He is much better than akshar guy.

Those pitches help Ashwin and jadeja a lot.
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back that up with facts dude. even i can say pak has the liveliest pitches in the world , all aussie pitches are like perth , all south africans pitches are batting friendly like centurion but that wont change the fact...

That India has the widest range of pitches in the world. Be it spin friendly like Ahmedabad motera kanpur Delhi, pace friendly - Bangalore Dharamshala , Neutral - Chennai Mumbai
pattas - Rajkot ( Chennai- difffrent strip )...


it wud be great if u see how much prep can change a wicket. those giant fans , drying techniques have made sure Rawalpindi turns nore than Ahmedabad after barely 120 balls the openers played.

even in namo stadium , it took a day for wicket ro break down like it has already
 
Banda298 said:
back that up with facts dude. even i can say pak has the liveliest pitches in the world , all aussie pitches are like perth , all south africans pitches are batting friendly like centurion but that wont change the fact...

That India has the widest range of pitches in the world. Be it spin friendly like Ahmedabad motera kanpur Delhi, pace friendly - Bangalore Dharamshala , Neutral - Chennai Mumbai
pattas - Rajkot ( Chennai- difffrent strip )...


it wud be great if u see how much prep can change a wicket. those giant fans , drying techniques have made sure Rawalpindi turns nore than Ahmedabad after barely 120 balls the openers played.

even in namo stadium , it took a day for wicket ro break down like it has already
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to add to it ...

it wud be great if u see how much prep can change a wicket. those giant fans , drying techniques have made sure Rawalpindi turns nore than Ahmedabad after barely 120 balls the openers played.

even in namo stadium , it took a day for wicket ro break down like it has already

Boards prepare wickets to suit home teams , its done world over be it England, Auztralia etc so why do u think India wont do it ..

Pakistan board has been unable to do it just to favor 3 people - Babar babar and babris. the day Pcb made spin pitches the fortunes changed .


the problem with pcb was ..no one wanted to remove pace is pace yar mentality and give chances to buzurg chacha noman , Sajid , give young deserving guys like K ghulam chances over the Babr lobby.

they made crappiest pitches which actually nafe sure Shaheen got injured trying to do a Cummins hazelwood while not being half as fit
 
Washington Sundar is better than any Pakistani spinners currently and he is not even in top 4 spinner of india.

Ash
Jaddu
Kuldeep
Axar
Washington :kp
 
The first innings score is identical to the Indian bowling performance. Imagine if our "chucker" Saeed Ajmal had bowled on pitches like these he would have 400 wickets just like Harbhajan "chucker" Singh.
 
Devadwal said:
Washington Sundar is better than any Pakistani spinners currently and he is not even in top 4 spinner of india.

Ash
Jaddu
Kuldeep
Axar
Washington :kp
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Ashwin and Jadeja are not better than Kuldeep, Axar and Washington. They are just lucky to play more.

Pragyan OJha was very unlucky to have been dumped around 2013 otherwise he would taken 400+ wickets as well on these Indian pitches in the last decade.

Sajid and Noman and also Jayasuriya are all at the same level as these Indian spinners as well.

There is no difference between 9-10 spinners.
 
Mamoon said:
Ashwin and Jadeja are not better than Kuldeep, Axar and Washington. They are just lucky to play more.

Pragyan OJha was very unlucky to have been dumped around 2013 otherwise he would taken 400+ wickets as well on these Indian pitches in the last decade.

Sajid and Noman and also Jayasuriya are all at the same level as these Indian spinners as well.

There is no difference between 9-10 spinners.
Click to expand...
But didn’t Ashwin surpass Imran to become the greatest Asian allrounder?
:yk
 
Devadwal said:
Washington Sundar is better than any Pakistani spinners currently and he is not even in top 4 spinner of india.

Ash
Jaddu
Kuldeep
Axar
Washington :kp
Click to expand...
axar and jaddu r poliically pushed players ... need a particular pitch to take 2-3 wickets. batting wise axar way ahead of jaddu in t20 odi

so washington sundar took 7. according to namoona chamune , he is better than ashwin jaddu . period
 
Pakistani and Indian Test Spinners - with Highest S/R (Min: 40 Test Wickets)

All currently active spinners have the best S/R. Any guesses why?

Indian famous spin quartet S/R:
When these 4 spinners played, India used to play with one Razzaq like fast bowler.
Chardrasekhar: 65.9
Prasanna: 75.9
Bedi 80.3
Venkataraghvan: 95.3

1729768364145.png
 
Maybe if the PCB would have opened their eyes to the benefit of turners sooner instead of catering to King Bobzie we would have had more of a sample size. As it is though it's just a theory of how many they would have taken
 
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