Honda halts production in Pakistan, Indus to follow

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LAHORE: Honda Atlas Cars Pakistan (HACP) shut down its plant for 10 days on Friday as its inventories piled up to 2,000 units on plummeting car sales amid rising prices due to imposition of new, higher taxes in the budget and steep currency devaluation in the recent weeks.

Similarly, Indus Motor Company (IMC), which produces Toyota models in Pakistan, has also decided to stop car production for eight days, two days every week, during this month, company sources told Dawn.

Honda had kept its plant closed for two days earlier last week. However, a Pakistan Suzuki Motor Company spokesman told Dawn the company will take decision whether or not to cut down production in the next few days after analysing sales trend and flow of booking orders during the present month.

HACP and IMC executives, who spoke to Dawn on the condition of anonymity, said their decision to scale down production during July was informed by extremely lacklustre sales in the first 10 days of the current month.

“Our inventories from the last month and the first 10 days of July have grown rapidly because of steep increase in car prices after currency devaluation as well as imposition of Advance Customs Duty (ACD) on all our imports and Federal Excise Duty (FED) on assembled cars, leaving us with no option but to shut down the plant to cut production. If the present trend holds, we expect our sales to drop to less than 30,000 units this business year (April 2019-March 2020) from over 48,000 units last year,” a senior executive of HACP elaborated.

An IMC official also gave the same reasons for “observing eight no-production days” during July. “It is a very serious situation for the local car manufacturers who are piling up inventories,” he said. But he did not give the size of inventory his company has built so far, saying the production cuts could increase next month if sales do not pick up.

The sales have been on the decrease for the last three months as total car and light commercial vehicles (LCV) volume contracted by 5pc to 17,561 units in June from a year ago. Overall, the car and LCV sales plunged by 7pc during the last fiscal year to 240,335 units from the previous year. The impact of implementation of 5pc ACD on all raw materials and parts used by the local assemblers and imposition of 2.5-7.5pc FED from July 1 has started resulting in further decline in sales.

Industry sources expect a significantly large dip in sales at the end of the year. It may be recalled that the industry was expecting to increase its sales to half a million units by 2022.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1493808
 
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"main sab ko rulaonga" - Imran Khan

I think when he stated that he wants to establish a Madinah state in Pakistan, people didn't realise that his intention was to make sure that people adopt the lifestyle of 7th CE Madinah. With the way things are going, it won't be long before we are riding camels, eating three dates with a glass of camel milk for breakfast and sleeping on beds made of palm leaves.

What about the workers in these factories? They are being laid-off and who is going to find jobs for them?

There is actually a strike right now. shopkeepers are shutting down shops to protest against the taxes. The vast majority of shops in Peshawar are closed today, and it is happening in other cities as well. Imran Khan has ruined businesses. The inexperience and incompetence of this government has been badly exposed.
 
Not good. Hope it is settled soon. There is a lot of pessimism in the air and that is certainly not good for business.
 
How long before the following allegation surfaces?

“Nawaz Sharif has started paying retailers and traders all over the country with the tees hazaar arab that he stole”
 
Suzuki Honda and Toyota are looting customers in Pakistan. They provide such low quality vehicles for such high prices. Govt should help promote Pakistani companies to stop monopoly of these big guns.
 
How long before the following allegation surfaces?

“Nawaz Sharif has started paying retailers and traders all over the country with the tees hazaar arab that he stole”

There is grouping within traders so it's not going to last long just like the grouping within lawyers on Justice Isa issue. It's strike in some cities while business as usual in some cities and within cities traders are divided. I just came back from market here in Attock and all the shops and whole market is open while in Lahore half is open half is closed.

You need to read more on this issue because this strike call is not because of taxes but the major reason behind move new CNIC condition from FBR. FBR imposed a condition whereby businesses need to obtain CNIC from buyers purchasing goods worth more than Rs50,000 which will result in more trouble for non filers.
 
There is actually a strike right now. shopkeepers are shutting down shops to protest against the taxes. The vast majority of shops in Peshawar are closed today, and it is happening in other cities as well. Imran Khan has ruined businesses. The inexperience and incompetence of this government has been badly exposed.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">"جب ان سے پوچھا گیا کہ تاجر طبقہ اور دیگر کاروبار شناختی کارڈ دینے سے کیوں کترا رہے ہیں جبکہ دستاویزی معیشت ایک اچھی چیز ہے، تو ان کا کہنا تھا کہ کئی جگہوں پر ٹیکس کی شرح منافع کی شرح سے زیادہ ہوجاتی ہے اس لیے حقیقی ٹرن اوور ہر جگہ دکھانا ممکن نہیں"</p>— Benazir Shah (@Benazir_Shah) <a href="https://twitter.com/Benazir_Shah/status/1149964066733137920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
What a shame, they're gonna have to start paying taxes and are now getting hemorrhoids.

Let them complain, they've monopolised the market for too long, aren't proton buying into the Pakistan market too? Malaysia-Pakistan, musulmaan Bhai Bhai.
 
The title of this article topic is misleading. Nowhere does it state both companies are halting production. They're just scaling back...every car manufacturer does this.

Also, since Pakistan imposed stricter car regulations, now these companies are crying they can't sell their junk to us.

Were talking about car models which are obsolete in every other country being sold in Pakistan.

Not anymore.

Of course the usual dishonest culprits are posting in this topic making a fool of himself yet again.
 
The government just has to remain steadfast, remember these are just pressure tactics to not pay taxes. Sooner or later they will have to reopen their businesses otherwise they won't be able to put food on the table.


Ask yourself when the US dollar went up these companies were very quick to increase prices even though as per law they need to have 70-80% local components, but now dollar has come down a little did they bring their prices down?
 
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The government just has to remain steadfast, remember these are just pressure tactics to not pay taxes. Sooner or later they will have to reopen their businesses otherwise they won't be able to put food on the table.


Ask yourself when the US dollar went up these companies were very quick to remain prices even though as per law they need to have 70-80% local components, but now dollar has come down a little did they bring their prices down?

Totally agree. If the government blinks first they will be treated like the beggy appeasers they've made themselves out to be.
 
Suzuki Honda and Toyota are looting customers in Pakistan. They provide such low quality vehicles for such high prices. Govt should help promote Pakistani companies to stop monopoly of these big guns.

Pakistani companies cannot make an auto rickshaw without Chinese technology. By suffocating businesses, Imran is playing into the hands of the Chinese who will soon infiltrate our market with their low cost but high quality products. At this rate, it is seems that it is only a matter of time before they control the automobile industry as well.
 
Pakistani companies cannot make an auto rickshaw

Ever heard of Sazgar Engineering? It is a completely indigenous company and majority of rickshaws we see on the road are by Sazgar. They are even exported. Maybe this was lost in translation when converted to Pashto :vk2:yk

http://www.sazgarautos.com/

PAKISTANI-SAZGAR-RICKSHAW-JAPAN-ONLY-VEHICLE-TO-EXPORT.jpg
 
Pakistani companies cannot make an auto rickshaw without Chinese technology. By suffocating businesses, Imran is playing into the hands of the Chinese who will soon infiltrate our market with their low cost but high quality products. At this rate, it is seems that it is only a matter of time before they control the automobile industry as well.

This is a good opportunity to regulate the automobile market and provide incentives to the likes of VW, Ford and Kia to produce and deliver their cars in Pakistan. Example, VWs are more affordable, higher quality and better safety then the garbage currently on Pakistani roads.
 
The title of this article topic is misleading. Nowhere does it state both companies are halting production. They're just scaling back...every car manufacturer does this.

Also, since Pakistan imposed stricter car regulations, now these companies are crying they can't sell their junk to us.

Were talking about car models which are obsolete in every other country being sold in Pakistan.

Not anymore.

Of course the usual dishonest culprits are posting in this topic making a fool of himself yet again.

Dawn, telling lies again. Why am I not surprised.
 
This is a good opportunity to regulate the automobile market and provide incentives to the likes of VW, Ford and Kia to produce and deliver their cars in Pakistan. Example, VWs are more affordable, higher quality and better safety then the garbage currently on Pakistani roads.

That is true, but they cannot compete with Chinese when it comes to producing quality at low cost. Look at how they are dominating the mobile phone industry. Same will happen in automobiles.
 
Ever heard of Sazgar Engineering? It is a completely indigenous company and majority of rickshaws we see on the road are by Sazgar. They are even exported. Maybe this was lost in translation when converted to Pashto :vk2:yk

http://www.sazgarautos.com/

PAKISTANI-SAZGAR-RICKSHAW-JAPAN-ONLY-VEHICLE-TO-EXPORT.jpg

Congratulations. Looking forward to the world class cars that “Sazgar” will start producing shortly and how they would put the Hondas, Toyotas and Suzukis to shame.

I think the first model of “Sazgar” will look something like this. The green color represents patriotism.

423A3F9F-B85E-486F-9838-F86245AEAECC.jpg
 
Congratulations. Looking forward to the world class cars that “Sazgar” will start producing shortly and how they would put the Hondas, Toyotas and Suzukis to shame.

I think the first model of “Sazgar” will look something like this. The green color represents patriotism.

View attachment 93708

I'd take that over a Tata right now.
 
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Sazgar have already teamed up with the Chinese to manufacture cars. It appears that their expertise was limited to tuk tuks only, and now they are at the mercy of the Chinese as expected. Looks like your Sazgar has gone bust very quickly.
 
The government just has to remain steadfast, remember these are just pressure tactics to not pay taxes. Sooner or later they will have to reopen their businesses otherwise they won't be able to put food on the table.


Ask yourself when the US dollar went up these companies were very quick to increase prices even though as per law they need to have 70-80% local components, but now dollar has come down a little did they bring their prices down?


What these companies are doing is charging customers GST, all while not paying a dime in taxes to the government.

This is exactly what the traders are also doing. They charge GST from customers, but don't pay a dime.
 
Nothing wrong with some Chinese investment, it's done wonders for Thomas Cook

China is taking control of Pakistan’s market from all corners. This can never be a good thing. If we are doing to drive out others, we better develop the competencies to manufacture products without relying on the Chinese.
 
Nothing wrong with some Chinese investment, it's done wonders for Thomas Cook

There is nothing wrong with investment at all. With people like Mamoon, you can't really have a logical debate because his entire agenda is to demoralize. Every single post whether its in regards to economy, cricket etc. is full of fantasy and negative myths.

Pakistan's entire automobile industry was built from foreign investment, it wasn't inherited from a former colonial empire like another country in our region.

All of Pakistan auto manufacturers have a link to a foreign company...such as:

Al-Ghazi Tractors (New Holland)
Al Haj (FAW)
Dewan Farooque Motors (SsangYong)
Ghandhara Isuzu
Ghandhara Nissan (Nissan) (Datsun) (Dongfeng) (JAC) (Renault Trucks)
Hinopak
Honda Atlas
Hyundai Nishat
Indus Motors Company (Toyota) (Daihatsu)
Karakoram Motors (Changan) (Chery) (Dynasty) (Gonow)
Kia Lucky
Master Motors (Changan) (Foton) (Iveco Trucks) (Mitsubishi Fuso) (Yutong)
Millat Tractors (Massey Ferguson)
Pak Suzuki
Sazgar
United Auto Industries
DYL Motorcycles (Yamaha)
Ravi Motorcycles (Piaggio)
United Motorcycles
Yamaha Motor Pakistan

To suggest that Pakistan's auto industry is being "taken over by the Chinese" is dishonest, but that's nothing new from Mamoon. Him and dishonesty go together like a horse and carriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Pakistan
 
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I cant believe PTI Supporters can back this too.

Yes, how dare people not want to buy obsolete cars at sky high prices. We should continue paying top dollar for trash.

Pakistan was one of the few remaining countries in the world that had not enforced any automotive safety standards or model upgrade policies. As a result, we were a dumping ground for obsolete vehicles and why trash like the Mehran continued to be sold by Pak Suzuki...a car that neither has power steering or airbags.

People simply are not going to buy this trash, especially when new entrants Renault, Kia and Hyundai setting up shop and beginning production in 2020.

The new government has slowly introduced safety standards and model upgrade policies, which will be phased in.

If you support driving around in death traps like the Mehran, be my guest.
 
It's not that hard, most of these fantasists don't live in the country.

The fact PTI won the election is enough to suggest that a majority of the population support PTI. Some overseas Pakistanis might not live in Pakistan, but they send back billions of dollars to Pakistan in remittances.

This is in contrast to thugs born into black money families, who live in Pakistan but entire wealth is sitting in offshore accounts.
 
There is nothing wrong with investment at all. With people like Mamoon, you can't really have a logical debate because his entire agenda is to demoralize. Every single post whether its in regards to economy, cricket etc. is full of fantasy and negative myths.

Pakistan's entire automobile industry was built from foreign investment, it wasn't inherited from a former colonial empire like another country in our region.

All of Pakistan auto manufacturers have a link to a foreign company...such as:

Al-Ghazi Tractors (New Holland)
Al Haj (FAW)
Dewan Farooque Motors (SsangYong)
Ghandhara Isuzu
Ghandhara Nissan (Nissan) (Datsun) (Dongfeng) (JAC) (Renault Trucks)
Hinopak
Honda Atlas
Hyundai Nishat
Indus Motors Company (Toyota) (Daihatsu)
Karakoram Motors (Changan) (Chery) (Dynasty) (Gonow)
Kia Lucky
Master Motors (Changan) (Foton) (Iveco Trucks) (Mitsubishi Fuso) (Yutong)
Millat Tractors (Massey Ferguson)
Pak Suzuki
Sazgar
United Auto Industries
DYL Motorcycles (Yamaha)
Ravi Motorcycles (Piaggio)
United Motorcycles
Yamaha Motor Pakistan

To suggest that Pakistan's auto industry is being "taken over by the Chinese" is dishonest, but that's nothing new from Mamoon. Him and dishonesty go together like a horse and carriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Pakistan

And?

Do you think this is something to be proud of?

Pakistan’s biggest failure is their inability to develop modern industries. India’s Tata bought Jaguar and Land Rover, and it is a small example of why their economy is far ahead of ours.

I am in mood to pour cold water over your delusions, but the fact that all manufactures in Pakistan are either owned by foreign companies or are at the mercy of their investment weakens our position.
 
At least they have the money to do so. Pakistan cannot even dream of buying Jaguar and Land Rover.

So you agree. I just wanted to demonstrate how your point of pakistan being unable to produce cars was one fuelled by hatred and ignorance.

Exposing you is too easy.

By the way, Jaguar and land Rover are losing revenue and heading for job losses. Pathetic management by Indian mentality. I dare you to say the manufacturing industry is on the decline.

Take your time with Google. :)
 
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Sazgar have already teamed up with the Chinese to manufacture cars. It appears that their expertise was limited to tuk tuks only, and now they are at the mercy of the Chinese as expected. Looks like your Sazgar has gone bust very quickly.

You are the one who said cannot even manufacturer auto rickshaws. The only thing that got bust is your izzat.
 
And? Do you think this is something to be proud of?
Who said anything about being proud? Auto manufacturing is only done by a few dozen countries in the world, among which Pakistan is one of them. I just gave you a list. Why are you burning?

Pakistan’s biggest failure is their inability to develop modern industries.
What does that even mean? Pakistan isn't building horse and carriages, it's building cars like any other country.

India’s Tata bought Jaguar and Land Rover, and it is a small example of why their economy is far ahead of ours.
India's "economy" isn't far ahead of Pakistan's, especially when you look at it from a GDP per capita perspective and the fact the largest fastest growing population of illegal immigrants to the United States are Indians. If India is THAT great as you claim, why don't you bother living in it?

Furthermore, Tata isn't a company that was made after 1947, but rather was formed by the British Raj in 1880 and entered into heavy industries. Britain's declining position against the U.S. and Germany at the turn of the 20th century was the prime factor for backing TATA, as it wanted steel mills across the colony. The Tata Iron and Steel Company (TISCO) opened its plant at Jamshedpur in Bihar in 1908. It became the leading iron and steel producer in British India, with 120,000 employees in 1945. TISCO became India's proud symbol of technical skill, managerial competence, entrepreneurial flair, and high pay for industrial workers thanks to the British.

The Ganges plain and Deccan for the most part were under British rule for far much longer (over 100+ years more) than the Indus Valley, half of which was revolting against British rule up until the 1920s! The British invested more into the Central Gangetic Plain and Deccan than it did the Indus Valley.

In 1947, India inherited a lot that industry and investment, whereas Pakistan didn't.

Somehow, I'm supposed to feel jealous of that? Spare me Mamoon.

I am in mood to pour cold water over your delusions, but the fact that all manufactures in Pakistan are either owned by foreign companies or are at the mercy of their investment weakens our position.

What makes you think a local auto manufacturer won't eventually arise in Pakistan?
 
This is a good opportunity to regulate the automobile market and provide incentives to the likes of VW, Ford and Kia to produce and deliver their cars in Pakistan. Example, VWs are more affordable, higher quality and better safety then the garbage currently on Pakistani roads.

Previous Govt tried to end monopoly of suzuki, honda & toyota by facilitating & convincing other companies (renault, kia & a chinese company) but then panama happened & like all other development, automobile sector also went to halt & started its journey downwards.
 
Previous Govt tried to end monopoly of suzuki, honda & toyota by facilitating & convincing other companies (renault, kia & a chinese company) but then panama happened & like all other development, automobile sector also went to halt & started its journey downwards.

That Chinese company (JW Foland) is still here and their plant is under construction in Lahore. So is Hyundai whose plant is under construction in Faisalabad. KIA and VW have under construction plants I believe in Karachi. The only company that has retreated after initially attempting to enter has been Renault.
 
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That Chinese company (JW Foland) is still here and their plant is under construction in Lahore. So is Hyundai whose plant is under construction in Faisalabad. KIA and VW have under construction plants I believe in Karachi. The only company that has retreated after initially attempting to enter has been Renault.

As I said, sector is at halt & moving downwards. Thanks for acknowledging. No expansions & one company has pulled out since then.
 
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As I said, sector is at halt & moving downwards. Thanks for acknowledging. No expansions & one company has pulled out since then.

Who says it's moving downwards? Do you have any statistics to back that up?

In 1993, Pakistan produced 76,000 vehicles.
In 2017, Pakistan produced 285,248 vehicles.

Auto industries go through good and bad times in every country. For the past 4 years, Pakistan has witnessed the highest number of vehicles produced in its history and the trend isn't going down anytime soon. Kindly keep your doomsday scenario in the trash bin.

auto.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production
 
Who says it's moving downwards? Do you have any statistics to back that up?

In 1993, Pakistan produced 76,000 vehicles.
In 2017, Pakistan produced 285,248 vehicles.

Auto industries go through good and bad times in every country. For the past 4 years, Pakistan has witnessed the highest number of vehicles produced in its history and the trend isn't going down anytime soon. Kindly keep your doomsday scenario in the trash bin.

View attachment 93718
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production

Again, thanks for acknowledging my point & providing statistics as well.
Now, read the OP to figure out what's the current trend & how is future foretasted.
 
Again, thanks for acknowledging my point & providing statistics as well.
Now, read the OP to figure out what's the current trend & how is future foretasted.

The "current trend" and "forecast" is just that...a prediction. And based on the statistics above, the auto industry always goes through periods of ups and downs. When your daddy was Prime Minister in the 90s, the auto industry took a big hit also.

For instance, the title states Honda and Toyota shut down its plants, despite the fact this click bait piece of trash you quoted states itself that they are scaling back production. Why? Because new entrants are taking away their monopoly! For example, Kia and Hyundai are opening plants in 2019 and 2020, along with Volkswagen and Renault possibly in 2021.

People are not going to by old obsolete trash that Honda and Toyota were throwing in Pakistan.

Kia Lucky Motors Pakistan to start booking of Sportage from 30th June 2019
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/491425-kia-begins-booking-for-sportage

Current-status-of-auto-policy-june-2019-COLOR-1024x649.jpg

They're scaling back production because nobody is buying their crap anymore. Until they decide to bring in new models, they can continue scaling back production all they want. Plenty of other companies can pick up the slack.
 
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Sooner or later you had to bite the bullet, no country can sustain on borrowing the money and spend. Tax is the only way to earn and spend money for any country.

Let them continue their strike, they are willing to pay bribe and "bhatta" but not taxes.
 
Who said anything about being proud? Auto manufacturing is only done by a few dozen countries in the world, among which Pakistan is one of them. I just gave you a list. Why are you burning?

And Pakistan ranks very low among those countries. In fact, it wasn't even in the top 40 in 2018 according to OICA (International Organization of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers).

http://www.oica.net/category/production-statistics/2018-statistics/

What does that even mean? Pakistan isn't building horse and carriages, it's building cars like any other country.

And it is doing a poor job. Pakistan's major exports are the following:

-cotton
-textile
-agricultural products
-sugar


India's major exports are the following:

-IT
-auto
-pharmaceuticals
-electric equipment

Do you not see the difference? Do you need realise that Pakistan needs to move on from non-tech exports and develop modern industries like India?

India's "economy" isn't far ahead of Pakistan's, especially when you look at it from a GDP per capita perspective and the fact the largest fastest growing population of illegal immigrants to the United States are Indians. If India is THAT great as you claim, why don't you bother living in it?

India's economy beats Pakistan's economy to a pulp on most metric. However, India's biggest problem is also shared by Pakistan - they are overpopulated. As long as India is unable to control its population, it will struggle to raise its standard of living and that is why Indians will continue to immigrate to Western countries.

Furthermore, Tata isn't a company that was made after 1947, but rather was formed by the British Raj in 1880 and entered into heavy industries. Britain's declining position against the U.S. and Germany at the turn of the 20th century was the prime factor for backing TATA, as it wanted steel mills across the colony. The Tata Iron and Steel Company (TISCO) opened its plant at Jamshedpur in Bihar in 1908. It became the leading iron and steel producer in British India, with 120,000 employees in 1945. TISCO became India's proud symbol of technical skill, managerial competence, entrepreneurial flair, and high pay for industrial workers thanks to the British.

And the point of this poorly written summary of Tata's history is?

Tata become the giant that it is today in the 90's when Ratan Tata took over as Chairman and India's economic liberalisation in 1991.
The Ganges plain and Deccan for the most part were under British rule for far much longer (over 100+ years more) than the Indus Valley, half of which was revolting against British rule up until the 1920s! The British invested more into the Central Gangetic Plain and Deccan than it did the Indus Valley.

In 1947, India inherited a lot that industry and investment, whereas Pakistan didn't.

Somehow, I'm supposed to feel jealous of that? Spare me Mamoon.

Again, your point is? Karachi was a major industrial port and centre of commerce in 1947, but we failed to capitalise on its potential because of our incompetence and poor decisions. On the other hand, look at what India turned Mumbai into. Don't justify Pakistan's incompetency by hiding behind the notion that India inherited more industries. Thankfully we inherited less, because we have been able to butcher less.

What makes you think a local auto manufacturer won't eventually arise in Pakistan?

For the same reason why Pakistan's major exports after 72 years are still cotton, textile and agriculture.
 
You are the one who said cannot even manufacturer auto rickshaws. The only thing that got bust is your izzat.

Congratulations, you must be so proud. I think this may as well be Pakistan's greatest achievement in 72 years.
 
The "current trend" and "forecast" is just that...a prediction. And based on the statistics above, the auto industry always goes through periods of ups and downs. When your daddy was Prime Minister in the 90s, the auto industry took a big hit also.

Until the final statistics are out, it's best to keep your Nostradamus mouth shut. You and Mamoon are arguably two of the biggest bums on this forum. Not an iota of intelligence or facts come from either of you. Just myths, conspiracy theories and trolling 24/7. Come back to me when you have ACTUAL FACTS.

For instance, the title states Honda and Toyota shut down its plants, despite the fact this click bait piece of trash you quoted states itself that they are scaling back production. Why? Because new entrants are taking away their monopoly! For example, Kia and Hyundai are opening plants in 2019 and 2020, along with Volkswagen and Renault possibly in 2021.

People are not going to by old obsolete trash that Honda and Toyota were throwing in Pakistan.

Kia Lucky Motors Pakistan to start booking of Sportage from 30th June 2019
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/491425-kia-begins-booking-for-sportage


They're scaling back production because nobody is buying their crap anymore. Until they decide to bring in new models, they can continue scaling back production all they want. Plenty of other companies can pick up the slack.

They're scaling back production because people cannot afford their cars due to excessive taxation, devaluation of rupee & inflation. New entrance have not put their stuff on sale yet, why would honda halt its production just because someone has planned a plant in the country?

& again thanks for admitting to the fact PMLN did a great job in automobile sector.
 
Ladies and gentlemen...here again I'll rip Apu's claims again. Notice how he continues his dishonesty streak. Let's begin.

And Pakistan ranks very low among those countries. In fact, it wasn't even in the top 40 in 2018 according to OICA (International Organization of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers).

http://www.oica.net/category/production-statistics/2018-statistics/

The source you used is for selected countries. Here's the complete list, which you conveniently didn't post. Once again, your upbringing is being displayed well.

Pakistan = 269,700 (2018) [up from 250,800 in 2017]
Asia-Oceania = 9th
World = 30th
Source: http://www.oica.net/wp-content/uploads/By-country-2018.pdf


And it is doing a poor job. Pakistan's major exports are the following:
-cotton
-textile
-agricultural products
-sugar

India's major exports are the following:

-IT
-auto
-pharmaceuticals
-electric equipment

Yeah I don't think so...precious metals eh? Nice! Keep trying Apu.

Pakistan Exports
766px-Pakistan_Export_Treemap.jpg

India Exports
India_treemap.jpg

Do you not see the difference?
Oh I see a big difference. I see one country that inherited an entire industry from British rule, and another country that started with nothing and is slowly building itself up.

Do you need realise that Pakistan needs to move on from non-tech exports and develop modern industries like India?

Pakistan indeed does need to develop its industries faster...but India isn't a country we need to follow. I'd rather follow countries like Korea and Brazil, which ACTUALLY have developed industries.

India's economy beats Pakistan's economy to a pulp on most metric.

What metric? Pakistan's GDP per capita is about 9 positions lower than that of India's on the world stage of over 200 countries. LOL. Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down.

However, India's biggest problem is also shared by Pakistan - they are overpopulated. As long as India is unable to control its population, it will struggle to raise its standard of living and that is why Indians will continue to immigrate to Western countries.

What's your definition of "overpopulated"? And what does overpopulated have anything to do with the fact that India is the world's largest plutocracy? Where the majority of the wealth is shared by a few dozen families while the majority of Indians live in dirt poverty. I don't think I have to remind you the % of Indians who earn less than $1.25 per day?

The total wealth of India’s richest billionaires (as per Forbes amounting to 119 people) comprises of almost 25% of the country’s GDP. :LOL:

Welcome to the Plutocracy of India.

And the point of this poorly written summary of Tata's history is?

My point is, Tata (as like most other Indian industries) got a head start and boost from British colonial investment. The regions where these companies were setup were all in the Ganges plain and Deccan, which is where most of British India invested its money into maintaining the colony. The Indus Valley region (modern-day Pakistan) saw little to no investment, primarily because it was in a constant state of rebellion against the British after 1842. The only thing the British did in our region was build the world's largest canal system, which in turn is the reason for our large agricultural economy. In 1947, India inherited most of those British colonial industries, whereas Pakistan didn't.

Tata become the giant that it is today in the 90's when Ratan Tata took over as Chairman and India's economic liberalisation in 1991.

Wrong. Most of India's largest industries were inherited from British rule, which inturn gave India a headstart. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there, your poverty speaks for itself.

Again, your point is? Karachi was a major industrial port and centre of commerce in 1947, but we failed to capitalise on its potential because of our incompetence and poor decisions.

Once again you prove your upbringing by being dishonest.

Karachi was never a major center of commerce in 1947. It only became a major port AFTER 1947 when Pakistan became independent and it became the major port of entry. Less than 100 years before 1947, Karachi was barely a village. The British East India Company captured Karachi (Sindh) in 1843, which at that time was only had 250 people and was called Kolachi-jo-Goth. Karachi was then made the capital of Sindh, and the British developed its harbour for shipping produce in 1854. New businesses began to open, and the town started growing in population, to a population of 435,887 by 1947!

Compare that to Bombay, which was captured by the British in 1715 and work on its docks began in 1753, a whole 100 years before Karachi. The entire city was built by the British between 1817–1845 and had a population of almost 816,562 by the time Karachi port was done and a population of 1,686,127 by 1947.

On the other hand, look at what India turned Mumbai into.

Yeah a big slum. Despite inheriting everything, you still made a mess. Congratulations.

Don't justify Pakistan's incompetency by hiding behind the notion that India inherited more industries. Thankfully we inherited less, because we have been able to butcher less.

Hide behind it? I proudly say it, India inherited everything. Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch in 1947. And despite that, your cities still look disgusting.

For the same reason why Pakistan's major exports after 72 years are still cotton, textile and agriculture.

Umm, and India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world.

Relax Apu. :lol:
 
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They're scaling back production because people cannot afford their cars due to excessive taxation, devaluation of rupee & inflation. New entrance have not put their stuff on sale yet, why would honda halt its production just because someone has planned a plant in the country?

Show me any piece of statistics that back this claim. I'll wait.

Also, why would people buy trash from Honda when they know in a year Kia, Hyundai and Renault are going to be selling cars? Do you even live in Pakistan? It takes months to get a car here, and these companies are already selling (except Renault).

& again thanks for admitting to the fact PMLN did a great job in automobile sector.

"Great job"...what did PMLN exactly do? Pakistan's growing middle class is what led to increased sales. Otherwise, PMLN did nothing to increase safety standards or enforce upgrade legislation.

Choti choti kushiyan is all you patwaris have left.
 
Ladies and gentlemen...here again I'll rip Apu's claims again. Notice how he continues his dishonesty streak. Let's begin.



The source you used is for selected countries. Here's the complete list, which you conveniently didn't post. Once again, your upbringing is being displayed well.

Pakistan = 269,700 (2018) [up from 250,800 in 2017]
Asia-Oceania = 9th
World = 30th
Source: http://www.oica.net/wp-content/uploads/By-country-2018.pdf




Yeah I don't think so...precious metals eh? Nice! Keep trying Apu.

Pakistan Exports
View attachment 93724

India Exports
View attachment 93723


Oh I see a big difference. I see one country that inherited an entire industry from British rule, and another country that started with nothing and is slowly building itself up.



Pakistan indeed does need to develop its industries faster...but India isn't a country we need to follow. I'd rather follow countries like Korea and Brazil, which ACTUALLY have developed industries.



What metric? Pakistan's GDP per capita is about 9 positions lower than that of India's on the world stage of over 200 countries. LOL. Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down.



What's your definition of "overpopulated"? And what does overpopulated have anything to do with the fact that India is the world's largest plutocracy? Where the majority of the wealth is shared by a few dozen families while the majority of Indians live in dirt poverty. I don't think I have to remind you the % of Indians who earn less than $1.25 per day?

The total wealth of India’s richest billionaires (as per Forbes amounting to 119 people) comprises of almost 25% of the country’s GDP. :LOL:

Welcome to the Plutocracy of India.



My point is, Tata (as like most other Indian industries) got a head start and boost from British colonial investment. The regions where these companies were setup were all in the Ganges plain and Deccan, which is where most of British India invested its money into maintaining the colony. The Indus Valley region (modern-day Pakistan) saw little to no investment, primarily because it was in a constant state of rebellion against the British after 1842. The only thing the British did in our region was build the world's largest canal system, which in turn is the reason for our large agricultural economy. In 1947, India inherited most of those British colonial industries, whereas Pakistan didn't.



Wrong. Most of India's largest industries were inherited from British rule, which inturn gave India a headstart. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there, your poverty speaks for itself.



Once again you prove your upbringing by being dishonest.

Karachi was never a major center of commerce in 1947. It only became a major port AFTER 1947 when Pakistan became independent and it became the major port of entry. Less than 100 years before 1947, Karachi was barely a village. The British East India Company captured Karachi (Sindh) in 1843, which at that time was only had 250 people and was called Kolachi-jo-Goth. Karachi was then made the capital of Sindh, and the British developed its harbour for shipping produce in 1854. New businesses began to open, and the town started growing in population, to a population of 435,887 by 1947!

Compare that to Bombay, which was captured by the British in 1715 and work on its docks began in 1753, a whole 100 years before Karachi. The entire city was built by the British between 1817–1845 and had a population of almost 816,562 by the time Karachi port was done and a population of 1,686,127 by 1947.



Yeah a big slum. Despite inheriting everything, you still made a mess. Congratulations.



Hide behind it? I proudly say it, India inherited everything. Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch in 1947. And despite that, your cities still look disgusting.



Umm, and India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world.

Relax Apu. :lol:

This is probably one of the best pwnages on PP.

Also to add, I am happy Honda is buggering off. The cars they sell are beyond rubbish. Pakistanis pay more for their models with half the gadgets for the same cars say Canadians buy. Its pure greed and theft, nothing else by Honda.
 
This is probably one of the best pwnages on PP.

Oh...you should see my post history. This is nothing. :lol:

Also to add, I am happy Honda is buggering off. The cars they sell are beyond rubbish. Pakistanis pay more for their models with half the gadgets for the same cars say Canadians buy. Its pure greed and theft, nothing else by Honda.

That's exactly what I tried to explain above. When new entrants came into the playing field, people had more choices. Who the hell is going to buy obsolete Hondas and Toyotas when they can buy a Kia, Hyundai or Renault care for almost the same price?

This is something certain posters here can't seem to wrap their heads around, probably because they have it stuck up somewhere where the sun don't shine.
 
Good going by the government, time to pay taxes. Funny how Mamoo ji always finds a way to complain about anything and everything related to Pakistan.
 
Ladies and gentlemen...here again I'll rip Apu's claims again. Notice how he continues his dishonesty streak. Let's begin.



The source you used is for selected countries. Here's the complete list, which you conveniently didn't post. Once again, your upbringing is being displayed well.

Pakistan = 269,700 (2018) [up from 250,800 in 2017]
Asia-Oceania = 9th
World = 30th
Source: http://www.oica.net/wp-content/uploads/By-country-2018.pdf




Yeah I don't think so...precious metals eh? Nice! Keep trying Apu.

Pakistan Exports
View attachment 93724

India Exports
View attachment 93723


Oh I see a big difference. I see one country that inherited an entire industry from British rule, and another country that started with nothing and is slowly building itself up.



Pakistan indeed does need to develop its industries faster...but India isn't a country we need to follow. I'd rather follow countries like Korea and Brazil, which ACTUALLY have developed industries.



What metric? Pakistan's GDP per capita is about 9 positions lower than that of India's on the world stage of over 200 countries. LOL. Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down.



What's your definition of "overpopulated"? And what does overpopulated have anything to do with the fact that India is the world's largest plutocracy? Where the majority of the wealth is shared by a few dozen families while the majority of Indians live in dirt poverty. I don't think I have to remind you the % of Indians who earn less than $1.25 per day?

The total wealth of India’s richest billionaires (as per Forbes amounting to 119 people) comprises of almost 25% of the country’s GDP. :LOL:

Welcome to the Plutocracy of India.



My point is, Tata (as like most other Indian industries) got a head start and boost from British colonial investment. The regions where these companies were setup were all in the Ganges plain and Deccan, which is where most of British India invested its money into maintaining the colony. The Indus Valley region (modern-day Pakistan) saw little to no investment, primarily because it was in a constant state of rebellion against the British after 1842. The only thing the British did in our region was build the world's largest canal system, which in turn is the reason for our large agricultural economy. In 1947, India inherited most of those British colonial industries, whereas Pakistan didn't.



Wrong. Most of India's largest industries were inherited from British rule, which inturn gave India a headstart. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there, your poverty speaks for itself.



Once again you prove your upbringing by being dishonest.

Karachi was never a major center of commerce in 1947. It only became a major port AFTER 1947 when Pakistan became independent and it became the major port of entry. Less than 100 years before 1947, Karachi was barely a village. The British East India Company captured Karachi (Sindh) in 1843, which at that time was only had 250 people and was called Kolachi-jo-Goth. Karachi was then made the capital of Sindh, and the British developed its harbour for shipping produce in 1854. New businesses began to open, and the town started growing in population, to a population of 435,887 by 1947!

Compare that to Bombay, which was captured by the British in 1715 and work on its docks began in 1753, a whole 100 years before Karachi. The entire city was built by the British between 1817–1845 and had a population of almost 816,562 by the time Karachi port was done and a population of 1,686,127 by 1947.



Yeah a big slum. Despite inheriting everything, you still made a mess. Congratulations.



Hide behind it? I proudly say it, India inherited everything. Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch in 1947. And despite that, your cities still look disgusting.



Umm, and India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world.

Relax Apu. :lol:

Post of the week. Mamoon taken to cleaners yet again lol.
 
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Ladies and gentlemen ...

Totally delusional post, demonstrating a complete lack of information about the real world.


Yeah I don't think so...precious metals eh? Nice! Keep trying Apu.

India exports $48 billion of "mineral fuels" and $40 billion of "gems, precious metals". These however are not India's top merchandise "net exports". The first is refined oil which needs crude imports and the second is cut diamonds (mainly Surat) which requires uncut diamonds. Excluding the other two, top 5 merchandise exports are:

Machinery including computers: $20.4 billion (6.3%)
Vehicles: $18.2 billion (5.6%)
Organic chemicals: $17.7 billion (5.5%)
Pharmaceuticals: $14.3 billion (4.4%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $11.8 billion (3.6%)

Pakistan's top 5 merchandise exports are:

Miscellaneous textiles, worn clothing: US$4.1 billion (17.1% of total exports)
Cotton: $3.5 billion (14.9%)
Knit or crochet clothing, accessories: $2.9 billion (12%)
Clothing, accessories (not knit or crochet): $2.6 billion (10.9%)
Cereals: $2.4 billion (9.9%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/indias-top-10-exports/
http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/

Note that just "Machinery including computers: $20.4 billion" for India is comparable to Pakistan's total exports of about $24 billion.

Also, India's software exports are well over $100 billion and constitute about 60% of total net exports (subtracting imported oil and diamonds). Pakistan has insignificant software exports, which is rather surprising as software does not need huge investments in physical infrastructure.

https://www.google.com/search?q=indias+total+software+exports&oq=indias+total+software+exports
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has his facts right, you do not.

Oh I see a big difference. I see one country that inherited an entire industry from British rule, and another country that started with nothing and is slowly building itself up.

Yes, yes! India inherited its software industry, computer industry etc. from the British.

Pakistan indeed does need to develop its industries faster...but India isn't a country we need to follow. I'd rather follow countries like Korea and Brazil, which ACTUALLY have developed industries.

First get to India's level before fantasizing about South Korea.

Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down.

Wrong again, India's per cap PPP GDP is $7,200 and Nigeria's is $5,900.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ni.html

The total wealth of India’s richest billionaires (as per Forbes amounting to 119 people) comprises of almost 25% of the country’s GDP. :LOL:

Comparing wealth (a stock item) to GDP (a flow item) shows a lack of understanding of economics.

Most of India's largest industries were inherited from British rule, which inturn gave India a headstart.

Like software, pharma, autos... this has to be worst excuse that I have heard for Pakistan's inability to develop modern industries that are of a quality good enough to export to the world.

India did not have any "headstart" over Pakistan. In the early 1990s India was well behind Pakistan in per cap PPP GDP. It was only after India liberalized its economy that it has left Pakistan behind.

Hide behind it? I proudly say it, India inherited everything. Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch in 1947. And despite that, your cities still look disgusting.

Inherited "everything" like its software and auto industries? You are severely delusional.

Other than the railways, no Indian industry of any value was developed during British times. Let alone the British, even the two main Indian passenger auto firms Hindustan Motors and Premier Padmini have zero or insignificant market shares today.

Umm, and India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world.

Wrong, see links above, you really have no idea about the real world.
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]
 
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This is probably one of the best pwnages on PP.

Also to add, I am happy Honda is buggering off. The cars they sell are beyond rubbish. Pakistanis pay more for their models with half the gadgets for the same cars say Canadians buy. Its pure greed and theft, nothing else by Honda.

Indians as usual lining up to defend Mamoon after he is taken to cleaners multiple times in last 2 days why i am not surprised [MENTION=150793]RameezRambo_Fan[/MENTION] :)))
 
Indians as usual lining up to defend Mamoon after he is taken to cleaners multiple times in last 2 days why i am not surprised [MENTION=150793]RameezRambo_Fan[/MENTION] :)))

It must be that numbers that I provided are too hard for you to understand, that is the only reasonable explanation I have for your post.
 
Ladies and gentlemen...here again I'll rip Apu's claims again. Notice how he continues his dishonesty streak. Let's begin.



The source you used is for selected countries. Here's the complete list, which you conveniently didn't post. Once again, your upbringing is being displayed well.

Pakistan = 269,700 (2018) [up from 250,800 in 2017]
Asia-Oceania = 9th
World = 30th
Source: http://www.oica.net/wp-content/uploads/By-country-2018.pdf




Yeah I don't think so...precious metals eh? Nice! Keep trying Apu.

Pakistan Exports
View attachment 93724

India Exports
View attachment 93723


Oh I see a big difference. I see one country that inherited an entire industry from British rule, and another country that started with nothing and is slowly building itself up.



Pakistan indeed does need to develop its industries faster...but India isn't a country we need to follow. I'd rather follow countries like Korea and Brazil, which ACTUALLY have developed industries.



What metric? Pakistan's GDP per capita is about 9 positions lower than that of India's on the world stage of over 200 countries. LOL. Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down.



What's your definition of "overpopulated"? And what does overpopulated have anything to do with the fact that India is the world's largest plutocracy? Where the majority of the wealth is shared by a few dozen families while the majority of Indians live in dirt poverty. I don't think I have to remind you the % of Indians who earn less than $1.25 per day?

The total wealth of India’s richest billionaires (as per Forbes amounting to 119 people) comprises of almost 25% of the country’s GDP. :LOL:

Welcome to the Plutocracy of India.



My point is, Tata (as like most other Indian industries) got a head start and boost from British colonial investment. The regions where these companies were setup were all in the Ganges plain and Deccan, which is where most of British India invested its money into maintaining the colony. The Indus Valley region (modern-day Pakistan) saw little to no investment, primarily because it was in a constant state of rebellion against the British after 1842. The only thing the British did in our region was build the world's largest canal system, which in turn is the reason for our large agricultural economy. In 1947, India inherited most of those British colonial industries, whereas Pakistan didn't.



Wrong. Most of India's largest industries were inherited from British rule, which inturn gave India a headstart. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there, your poverty speaks for itself.



Once again you prove your upbringing by being dishonest.

Karachi was never a major center of commerce in 1947. It only became a major port AFTER 1947 when Pakistan became independent and it became the major port of entry. Less than 100 years before 1947, Karachi was barely a village. The British East India Company captured Karachi (Sindh) in 1843, which at that time was only had 250 people and was called Kolachi-jo-Goth. Karachi was then made the capital of Sindh, and the British developed its harbour for shipping produce in 1854. New businesses began to open, and the town started growing in population, to a population of 435,887 by 1947!

Compare that to Bombay, which was captured by the British in 1715 and work on its docks began in 1753, a whole 100 years before Karachi. The entire city was built by the British between 1817–1845 and had a population of almost 816,562 by the time Karachi port was done and a population of 1,686,127 by 1947.



Yeah a big slum. Despite inheriting everything, you still made a mess. Congratulations.



Hide behind it? I proudly say it, India inherited everything. Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch in 1947. And despite that, your cities still look disgusting.



Umm, and India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world.

Relax Apu. :lol:

Yorked. Nuked. Pwnd.

POTW. :19:
 
It must be that numbers that I provided are too hard for you to understand, that is the only reasonable explanation I have for your post.

aah hurt? but the pattern is so obvious Mamoon being taken to cleaners and indians coming to rescue him :))
 
So you have a rebuttal to the numbers I posted?

Not sure who is talking about about specific numbers here? Purpose of the thread isn't to derail the topic, as usual Mamoo ji posted biased info on Pakistan, hence other posters provided him information.

You dug deep into details about all the economy and exports, which no poster has argued against neither trying to give a picture of competition, which you padosis love running on any social platform. For the size of your economy you should run numbers against a country like China, but you wouldn't for obvious reasons.

Pakistan went through a war so will be on a recovery cycle, India didn't hence no point in comparison and gloating. Both are third world countries with massive poverty, and deep social and political struggle, running numbers against one another are pointless as both are in sh!ts from many aspects of life.
 
Not sure who is talking about about specific numbers here? Purpose of the thread isn't to derail the topic, as usual Mamoo ji posted biased info on Pakistan, hence other posters provided him information.

You dug deep into details about all the economy and exports, which no poster has argued against neither trying to give a picture of competition, which you padosis love running on any social platform. For the size of your economy you should run numbers against a country like China, but you wouldn't for obvious reasons.

Pakistan went through a war so will be on a recovery cycle, India didn't hence no point in comparison and gloating. Both are third world countries with massive poverty, and deep social and political struggle, running numbers against one another are pointless as both are in sh!ts from many aspects of life.

It was not "gloating", I was pointing out the factual errors in @ RameezRambo_Fan post, which has been applauded by multiple delusional posters. To attribute India's modern industries to a "headstart" from the British times is beyond ridiculous. Also statements like "India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours" show a deep ignorance of facts.

One doesn't have to "dig deep" in the data to refute, the post was as delusional as they come.

Yes, Pakistan has been suffering from the WoT but participating in the WoT was a choice the Pakistani military made, starting with Zia-ul-Haq's creation of jihadist groups to attack the Soviets in Afghanistan, and the continued support for these groups for a proxy war in Kashmir and the Taliban for an anticipated takeover in Kabul. You live with the consequences of the decisions you make.

China is economically far ahead of India, no doubt. It's Communist Party is determined to provide an environment for economic development and its Han majority determined to crush minority voices like the Uyghurs. Things are different in multi-ethnic democratic India. Anyway, China doesn't justify delusional statements like "Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down" or "I proudly say it, India inherited everything".
 
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Totally delusional post, demonstrating a complete lack of information about the real world.

My post was for Mamoon, not you. But since you're also interested in getting humbled, I don't mind debunking your lies either. You Indians love propping your country up like it's some superpower that everyone is desperately flocking too, when you barely have food and toilets for your population. Apni aukat mein raho, didn't the downing of your 2 MiGs teach you anything?

India exports $48 billion of "mineral fuels" and $40 billion of "gems, precious metals". These however are not India's top merchandise "net exports". The first is refined oil which needs crude imports and the second is cut diamonds (mainly Surat) which requires uncut diamonds. Excluding the other two, top 5 merchandise exports are:
Machinery including computers: $20.4 billion (6.3%)
Vehicles: $18.2 billion (5.6%)
Organic chemicals: $17.7 billion (5.5%)
Pharmaceuticals: $14.3 billion (4.4%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $11.8 billion (3.6%)

Pakistan's top 5 merchandise exports are:
Miscellaneous textiles, worn clothing: US$4.1 billion (17.1% of total exports)
Cotton: $3.5 billion (14.9%)
Knit or crochet clothing, accessories: $2.9 billion (12%)
Clothing, accessories (not knit or crochet): $2.6 billion (10.9%)
Cereals: $2.4 billion (9.9%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/indias-top-10-exports/
http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/

Note that just "Machinery including computers: $20.4 billion" for India is comparable to Pakistan's total exports of about $24 billion.

First, you're comparing a country of 1 billion to 200 million, so these numbers mean nothing and are irrelevant to the discussion. Having a larger amount of exports will obviously be the case if you have a larger population. India's total exports was less than the UAE's and Belgium (nations smaller than your largest cities), so calm down. However, your exports were higher than that of Australia, Israel and Sweden. I guess by the logic you're employing, these three countries are inferior to India? Are Australians, Israelis and Swedes lining up outside Indian Embassies desperate for VISAs? So I fail to understand your point.

Again, I was merely questioning where the majority of India's exports come from. Instead of picking up some random website which you did, I decided to use your own Ministry of Commerce's Export Data Bank instead. Here's what I found:

EXPORT = Value (Million USD)
#1. NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY = $43,623.16
#2. MINERALS AND PRODUCTS = $32,435.65
#3. VEHICLE PARTS AND ACCESSORIES = $14,950.08
#4. HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES = $14,100.58
#5. ORGANIC CHEMICALS = $11,688.52
Source: https://commerce-app.gov.in/eidb/
Source: http://www.eximatlasindia.com/export/

Also, India's software exports are well over $100 billion and constitute about 60% of total net exports (subtracting imported oil and diamonds). Pakistan has insignificant software exports, which is rather surprising as software does not need huge investments in physical infrastructure.

Software exports are not even among India's top exports, so I fail to understand what that has to do with the discussion on hand. But if you want to have that discussion, Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.

38723608_1613278908799801_7602724792667471872_n.jpg

Yes, yes! India inherited its software industry, computer industry etc. from the British.

These aren't among India's top exports, so I fail to understand your chest thumping.

First get to India's level before fantasizing about South Korea.

Pakistan is pretty much at India's level...a quick check at the percentage of Indians who earn less than $1.90 a day will tell you that, infact Pakistan is why ahead in terms of income equality. Pakistan needs to look at developed countries as models, not a crumbling former British colonies with abject poverty comparable to the entire Sub-Saharan Africa combined.

Population living under $1.90 per day
Pakistan = 3.9%
India = 21.9%
Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY

Wrong again, India's per cap PPP GDP is $7,200 and Nigeria's is $5,900.

I'm referring to GDP (nominal) per capita, which is what most people use to rank national economies worldwide.

139 Djibouti $2085
140 São Tomé and Príncipe $2063
141 Nigeria $2049
142 India $2036
143 Kenya $1857
144 Bangladesh $1745
145 Zimbabwe $1712
146 Côte d'Ivoire $1680
147 Kiribati $1641
148 Pakistan $1555
149 Cameroon $1548
150 Cambodia $1509
151 Senegal $1474
152 Zambia $1417

Surprisingly, Bangladesh has made huge leaps forward...I wouldn't be surprised if they raced ahead of India in the next 2 years. That being said, ranking 142, 144 and 148 is hardly anything to celebrate.

Source: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/f...82,941,474,446,754,666,698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=

Comparing wealth (a stock item) to GDP (a flow item) shows a lack of understanding of economics.

The only one lacking here is your understanding of economics, where you're attempting to compare the total exports of a nation of 1 billion to that of 200 million. This shows how shortsighted you are and how you really don't understand how trade works. When countries like the UAE have larger exports than India, you shouldn't be gloating too much.

Like software, pharma, autos... this has to be worst excuse that I have heard for Pakistan's inability to develop modern industries that are of a quality good enough to export to the world.

Largest Economies In The World

1870
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1880
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1890
1. United States
2. China
3. British India
4. United Kingdom
5. Russia

1900
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1910
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. British India
5. United Kingdom

1920
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1930
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. Soviet Union
5. United Kingdom
6. British India

1940
1. United States
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. United Kingdom
5. China
6. British India

In 1950, the new Republic of India was the 6th largest economy in the world. In two years since 1947 you were able to do that? Tell me more.

Source: https://www.rug.nl/ggdc/historicaldevelopment/maddison/
Source: http://www.ggdc.net/maddison/oriindex.htm

India did not have any "headstart" over Pakistan. In the early 1990s India was well behind Pakistan in per cap PPP GDP. It was only after India liberalized its economy that it has left Pakistan behind.

Again, you're not understanding the crux of the debate. I'm not talking about per capita, your large population and inability to fit into standard condoms was not my problem or anybody's else problem. The fact is India inherited the majority of its industries from Britain. India today still operates as a British colony for goodness sake.

Indian Penal Code = adopted from colonial rule
Indian Railways = built and adopted from colonial rule
Indian education system = still operating on colonial curriculum
Indian governance = operates on the model of the former British Raj

So what makes anybody think your economy wasn't adopted from the British? Stop deluding yourself.

Inherited "everything" like its software and auto industries? You are severely delusional. Other than the railways, no Indian industry of any value was developed during British times. Let alone the British, even the two main Indian passenger auto firms Hindustan Motors and Premier Padmini have zero or insignificant market shares today. Wrong, see links above, you really have no idea about the real world. [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]

Software didn't exist in 1870. Again, you don't seem to understand simple concepts. The fact India was able to adopt a large industrial base gave it a head start. It had the entrepreneurs and experience from the get go, while Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch. And even with all that, where has it gotten you? India now ranks fourth after Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala for the largest source of unauthorized migrants (illegal immigrants) to America. If India is as great as you claim, what's with the massive migration from India?

Indians are the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the US
https://qz.com/india/789754/indians-are-the-fastest-growing-illegal-immigrant-population-in-the-us/

India Is the Fastest-Growing Source of New Illegal Immigrants to the U.S.
https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime...-source-of-new-illegal-immigrants-to-the-u-s/


Have a nice day.
Jay Madarashra or whatever.
 

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It was not "gloating", I was pointing out the factual errors in @ RameezRambo_Fan post, which has been applauded by multiple delusional posters. To attribute India's modern industries to a "headstart" from the British times is beyond ridiculous. Also statements like "India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours" show a deep ignorance of facts.

One doesn't have to "dig deep" in the data to refute, the post was as delusional as they come.

Yes, Pakistan has been suffering from the WoT but participating in the WoT was a choice the Pakistani military made, starting with Zia-ul-Haq's creation of jihadist groups to attack the Soviets in Afghanistan, and the continued support for these groups for a proxy war in Kashmir and the Taliban for an anticipated takeover in Kabul. You live with the consequences of the decisions you make.

China is economically far ahead of India, no doubt. It's Communist Party is determined to provide an environment for economic development and its Han majority determined to crush minority voices like the Uyghurs. Things are different in multi-ethnic democratic India. Anyway, China doesn't justify delusional statements like "Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down" or "I proudly say it, India inherited everything".

No, Pakistan is suffering from the WoT that the US dragged us into. As for Kashmir, we’re doing whatever is in our interest, just like how India supports the terror group BLA in Balochistan.
 
My post was for Mamoon, not you. But since you're also interested in getting humbled, I don't mind debunking your lies either. You Indians love propping your country up like it's some superpower that everyone is desperately flocking too, when you barely have food and toilets for your population. Apni aukat mein raho, didn't the downing of your 2 MiGs teach you anything?



First, you're comparing a country of 1 billion to 200 million, so these numbers mean nothing and are irrelevant to the discussion. Having a larger amount of exports will obviously be the case if you have a larger population. India's total exports was less than the UAE's and Belgium (nations smaller than your largest cities), so calm down. However, your exports were higher than that of Australia, Israel and Sweden. I guess by the logic you're employing, these three countries are inferior to India? Are Australians, Israelis and Swedes lining up outside Indian Embassies desperate for VISAs? So I fail to understand your point.

Again, I was merely questioning where the majority of India's exports come from. Instead of picking up some random website which you did, I decided to use your own Ministry of Commerce's Export Data Bank instead. Here's what I found:

EXPORT = Value (Million USD)
#1. NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY = $43,623.16
#2. MINERALS AND PRODUCTS = $32,435.65
#3. VEHICLE PARTS AND ACCESSORIES = $14,950.08
#4. HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES = $14,100.58
#5. ORGANIC CHEMICALS = $11,688.52
Source: https://commerce-app.gov.in/eidb/
Source: http://www.eximatlasindia.com/export/



Software exports are not even among India's top exports, so I fail to understand what that has to do with the discussion on hand. But if you want to have that discussion, Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.

View attachment 93734



These aren't among India's top exports, so I fail to understand your chest thumping.



Pakistan is pretty much at India's level...a quick check at the percentage of Indians who earn less than $1.90 a day will tell you that, infact Pakistan is why ahead in terms of income equality. Pakistan needs to look at developed countries as models, not a crumbling former British colonies with abject poverty comparable to the entire Sub-Saharan Africa combined.

Population living under $1.90 per day
Pakistan = 3.9%
India = 21.9%
Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY



I'm referring to GDP (nominal) per capita, which is what most people use to rank national economies worldwide.

139 Djibouti $2085
140 São Tomé and Príncipe $2063
141 Nigeria $2049
142 India $2036
143 Kenya $1857
144 Bangladesh $1745
145 Zimbabwe $1712
146 Côte d'Ivoire $1680
147 Kiribati $1641
148 Pakistan $1555
149 Cameroon $1548
150 Cambodia $1509
151 Senegal $1474
152 Zambia $1417

Surprisingly, Bangladesh has made huge leaps forward...I wouldn't be surprised if they raced ahead of India in the next 2 years. That being said, ranking 142, 144 and 148 is hardly anything to celebrate.

Source: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/f...82,941,474,446,754,666,698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=



The only one lacking here is your understanding of economics, where you're attempting to compare the total exports of a nation of 1 billion to that of 200 million. This shows how shortsighted you are and how you really don't understand how trade works. When countries like the UAE have larger exports than India, you shouldn't be gloating too much.



Largest Economies In The World

1870
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1880
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1890
1. United States
2. China
3. British India
4. United Kingdom
5. Russia

1900
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1910
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. British India
5. United Kingdom

1920
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1930
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. Soviet Union
5. United Kingdom
6. British India

1940
1. United States
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. United Kingdom
5. China
6. British India

In 1950, the new Republic of India was the 6th largest economy in the world. In two years since 1947 you were able to do that? Tell me more.

Source: https://www.rug.nl/ggdc/historicaldevelopment/maddison/
Source: http://www.ggdc.net/maddison/oriindex.htm



Again, you're not understanding the crux of the debate. I'm not talking about per capita, your large population and inability to fit into standard condoms was not my problem or anybody's else problem. The fact is India inherited the majority of its industries from Britain. India today still operates as a British colony for goodness sake.

Indian Penal Code = adopted from colonial rule
Indian Railways = built and adopted from colonial rule
Indian education system = still operating on colonial curriculum
Indian governance = operates on the model of the former British Raj

So what makes anybody think your economy wasn't adopted from the British? Stop deluding yourself.



Software didn't exist in 1870. Again, you don't seem to understand simple concepts. The fact India was able to adopt a large industrial base gave it a head start. It had the entrepreneurs and experience from the get go, while Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch. And even with all that, where has it gotten you? India now ranks fourth after Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala for the largest source of unauthorized migrants (illegal immigrants) to America. If India is as great as you claim, what's with the massive migration from India?

Indians are the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the US
https://qz.com/india/789754/indians-are-the-fastest-growing-illegal-immigrant-population-in-the-us/

India Is the Fastest-Growing Source of New Illegal Immigrants to the U.S.
https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime...-source-of-new-illegal-immigrants-to-the-u-s/


Have a nice day.
Jay Madarashra or whatever.

Is it possible to have 2 POTW nominations in the same thread by the same poster? Yes it is!

Great yorker - on a hat trick!

:19:
 
My post was for Mamoon, not you. But since you're also interested in getting humbled, I don't mind debunking your lies either. You Indians love propping your country up like it's some superpower that everyone is desperately flocking too, when you barely have food and toilets for your population. Apni aukat mein raho, didn't the downing of your 2 MiGs teach you anything?



First, you're comparing a country of 1 billion to 200 million, so these numbers mean nothing and are irrelevant to the discussion. Having a larger amount of exports will obviously be the case if you have a larger population. India's total exports was less than the UAE's and Belgium (nations smaller than your largest cities), so calm down. However, your exports were higher than that of Australia, Israel and Sweden. I guess by the logic you're employing, these three countries are inferior to India? Are Australians, Israelis and Swedes lining up outside Indian Embassies desperate for VISAs? So I fail to understand your point.

Again, I was merely questioning where the majority of India's exports come from. Instead of picking up some random website which you did, I decided to use your own Ministry of Commerce's Export Data Bank instead. Here's what I found:

EXPORT = Value (Million USD)
#1. NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY = $43,623.16
#2. MINERALS AND PRODUCTS = $32,435.65
#3. VEHICLE PARTS AND ACCESSORIES = $14,950.08
#4. HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES = $14,100.58
#5. ORGANIC CHEMICALS = $11,688.52
Source: https://commerce-app.gov.in/eidb/
Source: http://www.eximatlasindia.com/export/



Software exports are not even among India's top exports, so I fail to understand what that has to do with the discussion on hand. But if you want to have that discussion, Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.

View attachment 93734



These aren't among India's top exports, so I fail to understand your chest thumping.



Pakistan is pretty much at India's level...a quick check at the percentage of Indians who earn less than $1.90 a day will tell you that, infact Pakistan is why ahead in terms of income equality. Pakistan needs to look at developed countries as models, not a crumbling former British colonies with abject poverty comparable to the entire Sub-Saharan Africa combined.

Population living under $1.90 per day
Pakistan = 3.9%
India = 21.9%
Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY



I'm referring to GDP (nominal) per capita, which is what most people use to rank national economies worldwide.

139 Djibouti $2085
140 São Tomé and Príncipe $2063
141 Nigeria $2049
142 India $2036
143 Kenya $1857
144 Bangladesh $1745
145 Zimbabwe $1712
146 Côte d'Ivoire $1680
147 Kiribati $1641
148 Pakistan $1555
149 Cameroon $1548
150 Cambodia $1509
151 Senegal $1474
152 Zambia $1417

Surprisingly, Bangladesh has made huge leaps forward...I wouldn't be surprised if they raced ahead of India in the next 2 years. That being said, ranking 142, 144 and 148 is hardly anything to celebrate.

Source: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/f...82,941,474,446,754,666,698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=



The only one lacking here is your understanding of economics, where you're attempting to compare the total exports of a nation of 1 billion to that of 200 million. This shows how shortsighted you are and how you really don't understand how trade works. When countries like the UAE have larger exports than India, you shouldn't be gloating too much.



Largest Economies In The World

1870
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1880
1. China
2. British India
3. United Kingdom
4. United States
5. Russia

1890
1. United States
2. China
3. British India
4. United Kingdom
5. Russia

1900
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1910
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. British India
5. United Kingdom

1920
1. United States
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. British India
5. Germany

1930
1. United States
2. China
3. Germany
4. Soviet Union
5. United Kingdom
6. British India

1940
1. United States
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. United Kingdom
5. China
6. British India

In 1950, the new Republic of India was the 6th largest economy in the world. In two years since 1947 you were able to do that? Tell me more.

Source: https://www.rug.nl/ggdc/historicaldevelopment/maddison/
Source: http://www.ggdc.net/maddison/oriindex.htm



Again, you're not understanding the crux of the debate. I'm not talking about per capita, your large population and inability to fit into standard condoms was not my problem or anybody's else problem. The fact is India inherited the majority of its industries from Britain. India today still operates as a British colony for goodness sake.

Indian Penal Code = adopted from colonial rule
Indian Railways = built and adopted from colonial rule
Indian education system = still operating on colonial curriculum
Indian governance = operates on the model of the former British Raj

So what makes anybody think your economy wasn't adopted from the British? Stop deluding yourself.



Software didn't exist in 1870. Again, you don't seem to understand simple concepts. The fact India was able to adopt a large industrial base gave it a head start. It had the entrepreneurs and experience from the get go, while Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch. And even with all that, where has it gotten you? India now ranks fourth after Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala for the largest source of unauthorized migrants (illegal immigrants) to America. If India is as great as you claim, what's with the massive migration from India?

Indians are the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the US
https://qz.com/india/789754/indians-are-the-fastest-growing-illegal-immigrant-population-in-the-us/

India Is the Fastest-Growing Source of New Illegal Immigrants to the U.S.
https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime...-source-of-new-illegal-immigrants-to-the-u-s/


Have a nice day.
Jay Madarashra or whatever.

Spot on. GDP(nominal) is very misleading, at least when you’re judging a nation’s success on the economic front.
 
A successful economy is judged by the condition of the poor; more so by disposal income.
 
A successful economy is judged by the condition of the poor; more so by disposal income.

Indeed, and no South Asian nation can hold a candle and say they're doing that. We all have a long way to go before our nations become civilized and developed.
 
GDP(per capita) and HDI are better indicators of the overall success of any nation and the wellbeing of it’s people.

GDP per captia is an indicator of economic output spread across a population. This is why Luxembourg has one of the highest GDP/Capita but this doesn't mean it's economy is one of the biggest.
 
GDP per captia is an indicator of economic output spread across a population. This is why Luxembourg has one of the highest GDP/Capita but this doesn't mean it's economy is one of the biggest.

True, but compare the GDP(per capita) of two similar and proportionate countries like India and China or Pakistan and Bangladesh and you can usually see which country is doing better.
 
No, <b>Pakistan is suffering from the WoT that the US dragged us into.</b> As for Kashmir, we’re doing whatever is in our interest, just like how India supports the terror group BLA in Balochistan.

Pakistan wasn't dragged into the WoT. The Pakistani Army decided that it had a lot to gain from the US, and the ISI also believes the Taliban is a "valuable asset".
 
Honda are ceasing production in the UK too. What's the point again?

After the brexit, England is in for the pain as this is just the beginning. Neither is this good news since the price is going high which is hardly incentive for other manufacturers who are yet to invest in Pakistan. It is not good news.
 
My post was for Mamoon, not you.

<b>Nor was [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] conversing with you when you jumped into the conversation and referred to him (post #25). </b>

But since you're also interested in getting humbled, I don't mind debunking your lies either.

No lies from me as you have not provided any data refuting my statements. On the other hand <b>data that I provided refuting your statements like the following make you a liar.</b>

1) "India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours." <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

2) "I proudly say it, India inherited everything". <b>False</b>, industries like software, pharma etc. did not exist during British times.

3) "Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down" <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

<b>When presented with data showing your claims are false, you simply ignore the data and move on to making the next ridiculous statement. </b>You are the sort of poster Mark Twain advised against arguing with.

Let's see if you produce any data to support the above 3 statements?

You Indians love propping your country up like it's some superpower that everyone is desperately flocking too, when you barely have food and toilets for your population.

Given that <b>Pakistan has an infant mortality rate of 5.2% compared to India's 3.9%,</b> and for <b>Karachi "82% of all the drinking water samples were positive for E.Coli which is a marker of fecal contamination"</b> you should not be discussing the state of Indian hygiene.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e29/a7c0802458ac5f581ab240553ce19e691ca4.pdf

Apni aukat mein raho, didn't the downing of your 2 MiGs teach you anything?

India started buying Mig-21s in 1961, and around 290 have crashed. You think shooting down 2 with American made missiles is an achievement?

Again, I was merely questioning where the majority of India's exports come from. Instead of picking up some random website which you did,

It is not a random website. It is among the top Google results if you search for "India's top exports" and documents its sources.

I decided to use your own Ministry of Commerce's Export Data Bank instead. Here's what I found:

EXPORT = Value (Million USD)
#1. NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY = $43,623.16
#2. MINERALS AND PRODUCTS = $32,435.65
#3. VEHICLE PARTS AND ACCESSORIES = $14,950.08
#4. HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES = $14,100.58
#5. ORGANIC CHEMICALS = $11,688.52
Source: https://commerce-app.gov.in/eidb/
Source: http://www.eximatlasindia.com/export/

<b>What you found contradicts your own statement "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world."

You did not understand that "MINERALS AND PRODUCTS" is mainly refined oil, </b>thanks to the world's largest refinery in Jamnagar. I suppose you believe that Indians inherited that from the British too :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamnagar_Refinery

The "NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY" are mainly diamonds which are cut in Surat. <b>You do not seem to understand the difference between a gross export, and value added. Neither of the first two items you list are at the top in value added terms.</b>

Software exports are not even among India's top exports, so I fail to understand what that has to do with the discussion on hand.

<b>You fail to understand because you do not know how to do research correctly. </b>The numbers you found were for material goods, not services. India's software exports are projected to be $126 billion in FY 2018, by far larger than any other Indian export.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...in-fy19-esc/articleshow/67437874.cms?from=mdr

But if you want to have that discussion, Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.

Even taking into account that India's population is 6 times larger than Pakistan's, proportionately Pakistan's software exports should have been $126/6 billion = $21 billion, instead you are $1 billion. According to you, being less than 5% of where you proportionately should be is "doing just fine", pathetic”. <b>You think "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours", delusional!</b>

These aren't among India's top exports

<b>Only because you are clueless about economic issues. At $126 billion, Indian IT and ITeS exports are far larger than every other Indian export.</b>

Population living under $1.90 per day
Pakistan = 3.9%
India = 21.9%
Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY e

Again, <b>clueless research,</b> no one with any idea about the economies of South Asia would believe the 3.9% number for a moment. <b>The 3.9% for Pakistan is for people who are employed. The percentage for the entire population is 24.3%.</b>

https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty

I'm referring to GDP (nominal) per capita, which is what most people use to rank national economies worldwide.

No, that is not “what most people use to rank national economies worldwide”. A good economist would not use nominal GDP, which in case of Nigeria swings wildly as its exchange rate gyrates along with oil prices (Oil constitutes 95% of Nigeria's exports). <b>PPP per cap GDP measures actual goods people can buy with their income, which nominal per cap GDP does not. Nominal per cap GDP is so useless, that CIA World Factbook won't even provide that data.</b>

The only one lacking here is your understanding of economics, where you're attempting to compare the total exports of a nation of 1 billion to that of 200 million.

<b>You made the comparison “Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours”. </b>Now that it has been proven false, you are trying to change the topic. As Mark Twain would say…

In 1950, the new Republic of India was the 6th largest economy in the world. In two years since 1947 you were able to do that? Tell me more.

One look at Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia etc. will reveal the <b>deeply delusional idea that the economies of the developing or newly developed countries are constrained by what existed 70 years ago.</b>

The fact is India inherited the majority of its industries from Britain. India today still operates as a British colony for goodness sake.

<b>Oh, for goodness sake, would you like a biscuit with your tea?</b> I have one called a “clue”. The ingredients are “software, autos, pharma, computers etc. did not exist 70 years ago; there is nothing colonial about modern India; East Asian countries have built their industries on the last 50 to 60 years”
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]

Indian Penal Code = adopted from colonial rule
Indian Railways = built and adopted from colonial rule
So what makes anybody think your economy wasn't adopted from the British? Stop deluding yourself.

The US legal system is based on the British; China mass produces cars which was first done in the US; post-war Japan’s economy was adopted from the US… I forget, what was your point?

Indian education system = still operating on colonial curriculum

<b>Having actually done my K12 and college in India, I can authoritatively say you are mistaken. </b>Our K12 textbooks were written by NCERT, and our engineering textbooks were written by Americans.

The fact India was able to adopt a large industrial base gave it a head start. It had the entrepreneurs and experience from the get go, while Pakistan had to develop everything from scratch.

More delusions about how economic growth happens. In the real world “Until 1991, when India liberalised its economy, per capita GDP is estimated to have grown by an average of 4.7% per year, compared to an average of 7.5% every year after 1991.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ations-here/story-UEIuCPfvjOFE4U3aFHaIYI.html

Till at least 1980, the state of industrial development of Pakistan and India were not too different, both of them produced only low quality industrial stuff. Pakistan’s per cap GDP was actually ahead.

Pakistan is stuck in the Indian pre-1991 mode, with the Army and other non-economic forces dominating the economy. India only started making progress when it started reducing government intervention in the economy post-1991.

So in addition to the delusion #1 to #3 which I listed before and for which you have not produced any collaborating data, we now have additional delusions from you.

<b>4) “Software exports are not even among India's top exports”.

5) “Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.”

6) “Population living under $1.90 per day: Pakistan = 3.9%; India = 21.9%”</b>

I have wasted enough time on this. <b>No more replies from me unless I see something intelligent in reply.</b>
 
Last edited:
<b>Nor was [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] conversing with you when you jumped into the conversation and referred to him (post #25). </b>



No lies from me as you have not provided any data refuting my statements. On the other hand <b>data that I provided refuting your statements like the following make you a liar.</b>

1) "India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours." <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

2) "I proudly say it, India inherited everything". <b>False</b>, industries like software, pharma etc. did not exist during British times.

3) "Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down" <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

<b>When presented with data showing your claims are false, you simply ignore the data and move on to making the next ridiculous statement. </b>You are the sort of poster Mark Twain advised against arguing with.

Let's see if you produce any data to support the above 3 statements?



Given that <b>Pakistan has an infant mortality rate of 5.2% compared to India's 3.9%,</b> and for <b>Karachi "82% of all the drinking water samples were positive for E.Coli which is a marker of fecal contamination"</b> you should not be discussing the state of Indian hygiene.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e29/a7c0802458ac5f581ab240553ce19e691ca4.pdf



India started buying Mig-21s in 1961, and around 290 have crashed. You think shooting down 2 with American made missiles is an achievement?



It is not a random website. It is among the top Google results if you search for "India's top exports" and documents its sources.



<b>What you found contradicts your own statement "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world."

You did not understand that "MINERALS AND PRODUCTS" is mainly refined oil, </b>thanks to the world's largest refinery in Jamnagar. I suppose you believe that Indians inherited that from the British too :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamnagar_Refinery

The "NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY" are mainly diamonds which are cut in Surat. <b>You do not seem to understand the difference between a gross export, and value added. Neither of the first two items you list are at the top in value added terms.</b>



<b>You fail to understand because you do not know how to do research correctly. </b>The numbers you found were for material goods, not services. India's software exports are projected to be $126 billion in FY 2018, by far larger than any other Indian export.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...in-fy19-esc/articleshow/67437874.cms?from=mdr



Even taking into account that India's population is 6 times larger than Pakistan's, proportionately Pakistan's software exports should have been $126/6 billion = $21 billion, instead you are $1 billion. According to you, being less than 5% of where you proportionately should be is "doing just fine", pathetic”. <b>You think "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours", delusional!</b>



<b>Only because you are clueless about economic issues. At $126 billion, Indian IT and ITeS exports are far larger than every other Indian export.</b>



Again, <b>clueless research,</b> no one with any idea about the economies of South Asia would believe the 3.9% number for a moment. <b>The 3.9% for Pakistan is for people who are employed. The percentage for the entire population is 24.3%.</b>

https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty



No, that is not “what most people use to rank national economies worldwide”. A good economist would not use nominal GDP, which in case of Nigeria swings wildly as its exchange rate gyrates along with oil prices (Oil constitutes 95% of Nigeria's exports). <b>PPP per cap GDP measures actual goods people can buy with their income, which nominal per cap GDP does not. Nominal per cap GDP is so useless, that CIA World Factbook won't even provide that data.</b>



<b>You made the comparison “Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours”. </b>Now that it has been proven false, you are trying to change the topic. As Mark Twain would say…



One look at Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia etc. will reveal the <b>deeply delusional idea that the economies of the developing or newly developed countries are constrained by what existed 70 years ago.</b>



<b>Oh, for goodness sake, would you like a biscuit with your tea?</b> I have one called a “clue”. The ingredients are “software, autos, pharma, computers etc. did not exist 70 years ago; there is nothing colonial about modern India; East Asian countries have built their industries on the last 50 to 60 years”
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]



The US legal system is based on the British; China mass produces cars which was first done in the US; post-war Japan’s economy was adopted from the US… I forget, what was your point?



<b>Having actually done my K12 and college in India, I can authoritatively say you are mistaken. </b>Our K12 textbooks were written by NCERT, and our engineering textbooks were written by Americans.



More delusions about how economic growth happens. In the real world “Until 1991, when India liberalised its economy, per capita GDP is estimated to have grown by an average of 4.7% per year, compared to an average of 7.5% every year after 1991.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ations-here/story-UEIuCPfvjOFE4U3aFHaIYI.html

Till at least 1980, the state of industrial development of Pakistan and India were not too different, both of them produced only low quality industrial stuff. Pakistan’s per cap GDP was actually ahead.

Pakistan is stuck in the Indian pre-1991 mode, with the Army and other non-economic forces dominating the economy. India only started making progress when it started reducing government intervention in the economy post-1991.

So in addition to the delusion #1 to #3 which I listed before and for which you have not produced any collaborating data, we now have additional delusions from you.

<b>4) “Software exports are not even among India's top exports”.

5) “Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.”

6) “Population living under $1.90 per day: Pakistan = 3.9%; India = 21.9%”</b>

I have wasted enough time on this. <b>No more replies from me unless I see something intelligent in reply.</b>

You are wasting your time arguing with someone who thinks Sikhs in US/UK/Canada etc have a say in deciding what happens in India.

He will dish Indian economy and predict its doom. try to show how Karachi Stock Exchange is better than BSE. etc etc etc.

His posts reveal how little he knows about India or that he lies. This should ring a bell. Doesnt it?
 
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<b>Nor was [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] conversing with you when you jumped into the conversation and referred to him (post #25). </b>



No lies from me as you have not provided any data refuting my statements. On the other hand <b>data that I provided refuting your statements like the following make you a liar.</b>

1) "India's exports are what exactly? Precious metals? Iron? Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours." <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

2) "I proudly say it, India inherited everything". <b>False</b>, industries like software, pharma etc. did not exist during British times.

3) "Nigeria has a higher GDP per capita than India, calm down" <b>False</b>, data provided to show this is false.

<b>When presented with data showing your claims are false, you simply ignore the data and move on to making the next ridiculous statement. </b>You are the sort of poster Mark Twain advised against arguing with.

Let's see if you produce any data to support the above 3 statements?



Given that <b>Pakistan has an infant mortality rate of 5.2% compared to India's 3.9%,</b> and for <b>Karachi "82% of all the drinking water samples were positive for E.Coli which is a marker of fecal contamination"</b> you should not be discussing the state of Indian hygiene.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e29/a7c0802458ac5f581ab240553ce19e691ca4.pdf



India started buying Mig-21s in 1961, and around 290 have crashed. You think shooting down 2 with American made missiles is an achievement?



It is not a random website. It is among the top Google results if you search for "India's top exports" and documents its sources.



<b>What you found contradicts your own statement "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours. You act like you're exporting machinery to the world."

You did not understand that "MINERALS AND PRODUCTS" is mainly refined oil, </b>thanks to the world's largest refinery in Jamnagar. I suppose you believe that Indians inherited that from the British too :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamnagar_Refinery

The "NATURAL CULTURED STONES, PRE-METALS, JEWELRY" are mainly diamonds which are cut in Surat. <b>You do not seem to understand the difference between a gross export, and value added. Neither of the first two items you list are at the top in value added terms.</b>



<b>You fail to understand because you do not know how to do research correctly. </b>The numbers you found were for material goods, not services. India's software exports are projected to be $126 billion in FY 2018, by far larger than any other Indian export.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...in-fy19-esc/articleshow/67437874.cms?from=mdr



Even taking into account that India's population is 6 times larger than Pakistan's, proportionately Pakistan's software exports should have been $126/6 billion = $21 billion, instead you are $1 billion. According to you, being less than 5% of where you proportionately should be is "doing just fine", pathetic”. <b>You think "Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours", delusional!</b>



<b>Only because you are clueless about economic issues. At $126 billion, Indian IT and ITeS exports are far larger than every other Indian export.</b>



Again, <b>clueless research,</b> no one with any idea about the economies of South Asia would believe the 3.9% number for a moment. <b>The 3.9% for Pakistan is for people who are employed. The percentage for the entire population is 24.3%.</b>

https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty



No, that is not “what most people use to rank national economies worldwide”. A good economist would not use nominal GDP, which in case of Nigeria swings wildly as its exchange rate gyrates along with oil prices (Oil constitutes 95% of Nigeria's exports). <b>PPP per cap GDP measures actual goods people can buy with their income, which nominal per cap GDP does not. Nominal per cap GDP is so useless, that CIA World Factbook won't even provide that data.</b>



<b>You made the comparison “Your exports are dominated by natural resources, as is ours”. </b>Now that it has been proven false, you are trying to change the topic. As Mark Twain would say…



One look at Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia etc. will reveal the <b>deeply delusional idea that the economies of the developing or newly developed countries are constrained by what existed 70 years ago.</b>



<b>Oh, for goodness sake, would you like a biscuit with your tea?</b> I have one called a “clue”. The ingredients are “software, autos, pharma, computers etc. did not exist 70 years ago; there is nothing colonial about modern India; East Asian countries have built their industries on the last 50 to 60 years”
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]



The US legal system is based on the British; China mass produces cars which was first done in the US; post-war Japan’s economy was adopted from the US… I forget, what was your point?



<b>Having actually done my K12 and college in India, I can authoritatively say you are mistaken. </b>Our K12 textbooks were written by NCERT, and our engineering textbooks were written by Americans.



More delusions about how economic growth happens. In the real world “Until 1991, when India liberalised its economy, per capita GDP is estimated to have grown by an average of 4.7% per year, compared to an average of 7.5% every year after 1991.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ations-here/story-UEIuCPfvjOFE4U3aFHaIYI.html

Till at least 1980, the state of industrial development of Pakistan and India were not too different, both of them produced only low quality industrial stuff. Pakistan’s per cap GDP was actually ahead.

Pakistan is stuck in the Indian pre-1991 mode, with the Army and other non-economic forces dominating the economy. India only started making progress when it started reducing government intervention in the economy post-1991.

So in addition to the delusion #1 to #3 which I listed before and for which you have not produced any collaborating data, we now have additional delusions from you.

<b>4) “Software exports are not even among India's top exports”.

5) “Pakistan's software exports have seen an annual increase for the past 9 out of 10 years. I think we're doing just fine.”

6) “Population living under $1.90 per day: Pakistan = 3.9%; India = 21.9%”</b>

I have wasted enough time on this. <b>No more replies from me unless I see something intelligent in reply.</b>

Some day he will realise that posting samethings at different times, doesnot change the fact that TCS alone is more valuable than the entire Karachi Stock Exchange. So our Brit Pakistani friend cannot change that, no matter how many times he tries.

And in terms of value,Pakistani economy is in no ccomparision with the Indian one.
 
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