India's foreign minister S Jaishankar to visit Pakistan to attend SCO summit (2024)

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Yeah the more I think about it, it seems to me like India is looking to hang around as a sort of fly in the ointment.

Just look at the core members

Country
China
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Russia
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
India
Pakistan
Iran
Belarus

with Mongolia & Afghanistan as observers

Except for India, they're all Chinese or Russian clients. If India gets out, they could move towards consolidating this as a military and economic co-operation entity to eventually rival NATO. With India in, that's a non-starter. That's probably why Jaishankar couldn't skip. Someone senior enough from India has to be present to muck up any attempts at consensus.

Agend Vinod!

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif welcomed world dignitaries, including India’s Minister for External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, to the dinner for the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation’s (SCO) first day on Tuesday

The SCO comprises China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Belarus — with 16 more countries affiliated as observers or “dialogue partners”.

Pakistan became a full member of the SCO at its 2017 summit in Kazakhstan, which was attended by ex-PM Nawaz Sharif, who recently also expressed hope for reviving ties with India.

In his capacity as the current Chair of the Council of the Heads of Government (CHG), Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif will preside over the summit.

Right before the SCO dinner, footage from the venue showed PM Shehbaz welcoming and shaking hands with dignitaries, including India’s Jaishankar, with whom he held a brief conversation.

Jaishankar arrived in Pakistan today — the first such visit in nearly a decade. State-run PTV showed images of Jaishankar being received by the Director General for South Asia at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ilyas Mehmood Nizami, and other Pakistani officials after his plane touched down at the Nur Khan Airbase just before 3:30pm.

PM Shehbaz welcomes state dignitaries to SCO dinner

Belarus, Kyrgyz, Tajik premiers, others also arrive ahead of tomorrow's main conference.

www.dawn.com

 

[Hitman]

What a good example Bilawal Bhutto is for the youth of Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846200701560803536

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Ishaq sahab looking for a new business deal lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846545906885177353

 

[Bhaijaan]

On behalf of all PPers from Bharat, I would like to thank the people of Pakistan and their government for the warm hospitality bestowed to EAM Jaishankar. Much appreciated. These little steps will go a long way in bridging the gap one day hopefully. Love & Gratitude.

 

[Kianig89]

JaiShankar was stunned when Dar Told him his gimmicky of fudging economic indicators with IMF , then a proper case study of money laundering and TT's involving billions of dollar and etc etc.

After listening to all this , Jaishankar was of the view that Dar should try his luck in Netflix series, if not his story will be very successful in South cinemas

 

[guard]

Ishaq sahab looking for a new business deal lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846545906885177353

The whole cabal is crooked to the centre

 

[BouncerGuy]

India, Pakistan open window: Cricket on table, Jaishankar and his counterpart hold talks on sidelines of SCO meet

In the first direct conversation between Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan since 2015, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Muhammad Ishaq Dar spoke twice in less than 24 hours, and there were indications that these talks explored the idea of resuming some form of cricketing ties between the two countries, The Indian Express has learned.

Sources, however, underlined that these conversations, which took place on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation meeting of Council of Heads of Government, are very preliminary and “need to be thought through” on both sides given that ties between the two countries have remained frozen for years.

But the talks do open a window and a possible first step could be the Champions Trophy being hosted by Pakistan next February. There was already a guessing game on whether the Indian team would travel to Pakistan for the matches.

Jaishankar and Dar met Tuesday evening at the dinner hosted by Pakistan Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif for SCO leaders at his residence. After exchanging pleasantries and a few words as they shook hands, the two ministers had a conversation over dinner, sources said.

Sources said the ministers decided to carry forward the conversation over lunch on Wednesday, after the end of the SCO plenary session.

They were not supposed to be seated together at the lunch for leaders, but instructions went out to the Pakistan protocol to ensure that Jaishankar and Dar were next to each other.

One of their conversations, sources said, was on cricket — it’s a game Jaishankar is very fond of. Pakistan’s Interior Minister Syed Mohsin Raza Naqvi, who is also Chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, was also looped in.

Sources said the idea being explored was to resume some form of cricketing ties — and the possibility of the Indian cricket team travelling to Pakistan. One possible window of opportunity, sources said, is the Champions Trophy. It is going to be hosted by Pakistan from February 19 to March 9, 2025.

While sources cautioned that these were very preliminary conversations and needed to be “thought through” on both sides, “the atmospherics were good” and, unlike the SCO meeting in Goa in May 2023, there were no fireworks this time.

In Goa, Jaishankar, targeting Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, the then Pakistan Foreign Minister, called him a spokesperson for the terrorism industry. Bhutto Zardari had raised Jammu and Kashmir and Article 370, which had irked the Indian side.

This time, there were no provocative statements by the Pakistani side — ministers stuck to the talking points. Planning Minister Ahsan Iqbal said the Lahore Declaration should be followed, Information Minister Attaullah Tarar said they were meeting for a multilateral event as part of reciprocity, and the Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Jaishankar was a “guest of Pakistan”.

Jaishankar too followed the script and, in a post at the end of his visit, said, “Departing from Islamabad. Thank PM @CMShehbaz, DPM & FM @MIshaqDar50 and the Government of Pakistan for the hospitality and courtesies.”

The PCB, which will host the Champions Trophy in February next year, has been urging India to travel to Pakistan for the matches. If India do go, it will be the team’s first visit across the border in 17 years. A bilateral series will require massive tweaks in their busy calendars. Both India and Pakistan teams have packed schedules at home and abroad.

Dar is an important and influential player in Pakistan’s current establishment. Not only is he a close confidant of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, the patriarch of the Sharif family, but is also related to them — Dar’s eldest son is married to Nawaz Sharif’s daughter Asma Nawaz. From that perspective, he carries the mandate of the Sharifs as well.

There have been efforts of late by the PCB to convince India to travel to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy. Those in the know say the PCB has given the BCCI various options regarding the itinerary for the first visit of their cricketers across the border in 17 years.

While the PCB had decided to schedule all three league games involving India in Lahore, the broadcasters wanted them to also play at other venues. Considering this request, the PCB floated the idea of having a game in Rawalpindi. The PCB communication to the BCCI also stated that Lahore was earmarked as the venue because this would allow India to travel home after every game if the side so wished.

A bilateral series before the 50-over multinational ICC event will need a tweak to the international calendar. Pakistan, after the ongoing England Test series that ends on October 28, have important away-tours lined up. Between early November and late December, they are set to tour Australia, Zimbabwe and South Africa. The new year starts with them hosting West Indies, followed by a tri-series that would also feature South Africa and New Zealand.

For India too, the months ahead are busy. At the end of the New Zealand Test series this month, India travels to South Africa and Australia. After their return in January, they host England before the Champions Trophy.

INDIA EXPRESS

 

[Red-Indian]

India, Pakistan open window: Cricket on table, Jaishankar and his counterpart hold talks on sidelines of SCO meet

In the first direct conversation between Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan since 2015, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Muhammad Ishaq Dar spoke twice in less than 24 hours, and there were indications that these talks explored the idea of resuming some form of cricketing ties between the two countries, The Indian Express has learned.

Sources, however, underlined that these conversations, which took place on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation meeting of Council of Heads of Government, are very preliminary and “need to be thought through” on both sides given that ties between the two countries have remained frozen for years.

But the talks do open a window and a possible first step could be the Champions Trophy being hosted by Pakistan next February. There was already a guessing game on whether the Indian team would travel to Pakistan for the matches.

Jaishankar and Dar met Tuesday evening at the dinner hosted by Pakistan Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif for SCO leaders at his residence. After exchanging pleasantries and a few words as they shook hands, the two ministers had a conversation over dinner, sources said.

Sources said the ministers decided to carry forward the conversation over lunch on Wednesday, after the end of the SCO plenary session.

They were not supposed to be seated together at the lunch for leaders, but instructions went out to the Pakistan protocol to ensure that Jaishankar and Dar were next to each other.

One of their conversations, sources said, was on cricket — it’s a game Jaishankar is very fond of. Pakistan’s Interior Minister Syed Mohsin Raza Naqvi, who is also Chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, was also looped in.

Sources said the idea being explored was to resume some form of cricketing ties — and the possibility of the Indian cricket team travelling to Pakistan. One possible window of opportunity, sources said, is the Champions Trophy. It is going to be hosted by Pakistan from February 19 to March 9, 2025.

While sources cautioned that these were very preliminary conversations and needed to be “thought through” on both sides, “the atmospherics were good” and, unlike the SCO meeting in Goa in May 2023, there were no fireworks this time.

In Goa, Jaishankar, targeting Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, the then Pakistan Foreign Minister, called him a spokesperson for the terrorism industry. Bhutto Zardari had raised Jammu and Kashmir and Article 370, which had irked the Indian side.

This time, there were no provocative statements by the Pakistani side — ministers stuck to the talking points. Planning Minister Ahsan Iqbal said the Lahore Declaration should be followed, Information Minister Attaullah Tarar said they were meeting for a multilateral event as part of reciprocity, and the Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Jaishankar was a “guest of Pakistan”.

Jaishankar too followed the script and, in a post at the end of his visit, said, “Departing from Islamabad. Thank PM @CMShehbaz, DPM & FM @MIshaqDar50 and the Government of Pakistan for the hospitality and courtesies.”

The PCB, which will host the Champions Trophy in February next year, has been urging India to travel to Pakistan for the matches. If India do go, it will be the team’s first visit across the border in 17 years. A bilateral series will require massive tweaks in their busy calendars. Both India and Pakistan teams have packed schedules at home and abroad.

Dar is an important and influential player in Pakistan’s current establishment. Not only is he a close confidant of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, the patriarch of the Sharif family, but is also related to them — Dar’s eldest son is married to Nawaz Sharif’s daughter Asma Nawaz. From that perspective, he carries the mandate of the Sharifs as well.

There have been efforts of late by the PCB to convince India to travel to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy. Those in the know say the PCB has given the BCCI various options regarding the itinerary for the first visit of their cricketers across the border in 17 years.

While the PCB had decided to schedule all three league games involving India in Lahore, the broadcasters wanted them to also play at other venues. Considering this request, the PCB floated the idea of having a game in Rawalpindi. The PCB communication to the BCCI also stated that Lahore was earmarked as the venue because this would allow India to travel home after every game if the side so wished.

A bilateral series before the 50-over multinational ICC event will need a tweak to the international calendar. Pakistan, after the ongoing England Test series that ends on October 28, have important away-tours lined up. Between early November and late December, they are set to tour Australia, Zimbabwe and South Africa. The new year starts with them hosting West Indies, followed by a tri-series that would also feature South Africa and New Zealand.

For India too, the months ahead are busy. At the end of the New Zealand Test series this month, India travels to South Africa and Australia. After their return in January, they host England before the Champions Trophy.

INDIA EXPRESS

This is good stuff. A respected news source like the Indian Express reporting this much detail gives it a lot of validity. Someone senior on the India foreign office side is obviously briefing. Else details like changes in protocol to seat Dar and Jaishankar together is extremely inside stuff. And the article is right. There wasn't a single statement on Kashmir from the Pakistani side. And Jaishankar too didn't make any provocative statement.

I'm guessing Jaishankar and co. are using these leaks to float trial balloons on the possibility of resuming interactions starting with maybe cricket and trying to judge public reaction. If there is huge public outcry against it, they have full deniability. If no outcry, they can take a cautious next step. Maybe another informal meeting - this time a bit longer.

 

[rpant_gabba]

This is good stuff. A respected news source like the Indian Express reporting this much detail gives it a lot of validity. Someone senior on the India foreign office side is obviously briefing. Else details like changes in protocol to seat Dar and Jaishankar together is extremely inside stuff. And the article is right. There wasn't a single statement on Kashmir from the Pakistani side. And Jaishankar too didn't make any provocative statement.

I'm guessing Jaishankar and co. are using these leaks to float trial balloons on the possibility of resuming interactions starting with maybe cricket and trying to judge public reaction. If there is huge public outcry against it, they have full deniability. If no outcry, they can take a cautious next step. Maybe another informal meeting - this time a bit longer.

I think this is a mistake.

wonder who is going to pay the price.

with vajpayee, it was army and soldiers who paid the price

with MMS, it was citizens of mumbai

 

[Red-Indian]

I think this is a mistake.

wonder who is going to pay the price.

with vajpayee, it was army and soldiers who paid the price

with MMS, it was citizens of mumbai

You think the Pakistani establishment is against this move by the Sharifs and Dar and will try to undermine by going behind their back like in Kargil?

I doubt it. Unlike the last time, they are utter puppets of the military now - zero popular base and won't lift a finger without their okay. Even Naqvi who's basically surgically attached to the Establishment is involved.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Both sides need to move very, very slowly though. No big public gestures to try and shortcut the process. Very step by step tiny moves.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You think the Pakistani establishment is against this move by the Sharifs and Dar and will try to undermine by going behind their back like in Kargil?

I doubt it. Unlike the last time, they are utter puppets of the military now - zero popular base and won't lift a finger without their okay. Even Naqvi who's basically surgically attached to the Establishment is involved.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Both sides need to move very, very slowly though. No big public gestures to try and shortcut the process. Very step by step tiny moves.

So far it seems well choreographed and cautiously stage managed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is good stuff. A respected news source like the Indian Express reporting this much detail gives it a lot of validity. Someone senior on the India foreign office side is obviously briefing. Else details like changes in protocol to seat Dar and Jaishankar together is extremely inside stuff. And the article is right. There wasn't a single statement on Kashmir from the Pakistani side. And Jaishankar too didn't make any provocative statement.

I'm guessing Jaishankar and co. are using these leaks to float trial balloons on the possibility of resuming interactions starting with maybe cricket and trying to judge public reaction. If there is huge public outcry against it, they have full deniability. If no outcry, they can take a cautious next step. Maybe another informal meeting - this time a bit longer.

Leftist Indian Express is as far from the BJP led government as North pole is from South pole.

This is nothing but agenda pushing. These are Aman ki Asha type idiots who floated similar articles during ABV government forcing the government to restart a peace process.

Such tactics worked with ABV government, don't think it will with Modi.

The only thing that looks close to truth is Dar asking Jaishankar for the Indian team to visit Pakistan for CT.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You think the Pakistani establishment is against this move by the Sharifs and Dar and will try to undermine by going behind their back like in Kargil?

I doubt it. Unlike the last time, they are utter puppets of the military now - zero popular base and won't lift a finger without their okay. Even Naqvi who's basically surgically attached to the Establishment is involved.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Both sides need to move very, very slowly though. No big public gestures to try and shortcut the process. Very step by step tiny moves.

Modi government has no reason to start any peace process with pakistan.

 

[Red-Indian]

Leftist Indian Express is as far from the BJP led government as North pole is from South pole.

This is nothing but agenda pushing. These are Aman ki Asha type idiots who floated similar articles during ABV government forcing the government to restart a peace process.

Such tactics worked with ABV government, don't think it will with Modi.

The only thing that looks close to truth is Dar asking Jaishankar for the Indian team to visit Pakistan for CT.

I've been reading the Indian Express for 30 years and I rate them very highly (the west edition not the ghastly 'New Indian Express' in the south). I would say it leans activist...not leftist but your mileage may vary. Yes Chidambaram and Derek O'Brien publish Op-Eds but so do plenty of Modi government ministers.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. You'll agree that they don't publish gossip at least and information like changes in protocol to have Dar and Jaishankar seated together and looping in Mohsin Naqvi can only come from someone on the inside.

And the analysis is spot on. Just look at the optics...last year in Goa - Jaishankar wouldn't even let himself be photographed shaking hands with Bilawal. Both made bitter statements on the controversial subjects - terrorism, Kashmir. Jaishankar actually called Bilawal "spokesperson of the terrorism industry." Compare that to now where Jaishankar briefly brushed past the subjects in general without mentioning Pakistan. Sharif didn't even say a word on Kashmir.

Let's wait and see but there's definitely something in the water here. My feeling is Pakistan will make the first concession. They will use the excuse of the just concluded elections in Kashmir and the possible restoration of statehood as improvements made by India and open up some trade and transport routes like the bus links. From there it's cricket, culture so on. Small steps before we get to anything substantial.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've been reading the Indian Express for 30 years and I rate them very highly (the west edition not the ghastly 'New Indian Express' in the south). I would say it leans activist...not leftist but your mileage may vary. Yes Chidambaram and Derek O'Brien publish Op-Eds but so do plenty of Modi government ministers.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. You'll agree that they don't publish gossip at least and information like changes in protocol to have Dar and Jaishankar seated together and looping in Mohsin Naqvi can only come from someone on the inside.

And the analysis is spot on. Just look at the optics...last year in Goa - Jaishankar wouldn't even let himself be photographed shaking hands with Bilawal. Both made bitter statements on the controversial subjects - terrorism, Kashmir. Jaishankar actually called Bilawal "spokesperson of the terrorism industry." Compare that to now where Jaishankar briefly brushed past the subjects in general without mentioning Pakistan. Sharif didn't even say a word on Kashmir.

Let's wait and see but there's definitely something in the water here. My feeling is Pakistan will make the first concession. They will use the excuse of the just concluded elections in Kashmir and the possible restoration of statehood as improvements made by India and open up some trade and transport routes like the bus links. From there it's cricket, culture so on. Small steps before we get to anything substantial.

Most leftists rate Indian Express highly. They rate the Hindu highly too.
They are leftist media. Hindu more than IE.

Will Indian government feed IE with the news on Pakistanis doing something internally? No. It will be people from the other side.

Pakistan is the host. Jaishankar has to follow protocols and meet and greet his hosts. And Pakistan as hosts don't want to jeopardize the event by dragging in bilateral issues.

SCO is very important to Russia and China. And India is the second biggest economy in the SCO and third strongest military. It is the last remaining major economic and military power that is neutral and hasn't chosen a side.

Any SCO initiative to create another power center in the world fails without India. So this is more likely SCO not wanting itself to be dragged into any bilateral dispute.

Modi has burnt his hands once in Pakistan. He has seen the entire Vajpayee government fall due to such missteps on Pakistan. His government has received widespread public support for its Pakistan policy.

There is no reason for Modi to do any new drama on Pakistan.

As i said, I saw the same kind of articles in media during Vajpayee government. Trying to build a narrative in the media to some how make it look like there are efforts by government and Pakistan being receptive or going out of his way.

If Modi government wanted to leak details, they will do it to media companies close to the government and not leftist media like IE.

What is interesting, no other media outlet reported this, except Loksatta. A very pro Pawar Marathi newspaper. One day after the elections were announced.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've been reading the Indian Express for 30 years and I rate them very highly (the west edition not the ghastly 'New Indian Express' in the south). I would say it leans activist...not leftist but your mileage may vary. Yes Chidambaram and Derek O'Brien publish Op-Eds but so do plenty of Modi government ministers.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. You'll agree that they don't publish gossip at least and information like changes in protocol to have Dar and Jaishankar seated together and looping in Mohsin Naqvi can only come from someone on the inside.

And the analysis is spot on. Just look at the optics...last year in Goa - Jaishankar wouldn't even let himself be photographed shaking hands with Bilawal. Both made bitter statements on the controversial subjects - terrorism, Kashmir. Jaishankar actually called Bilawal "spokesperson of the terrorism industry." Compare that to now where Jaishankar briefly brushed past the subjects in general without mentioning Pakistan. Sharif didn't even say a word on Kashmir.

Let's wait and see but there's definitely something in the water here. My feeling is Pakistan will make the first concession. They will use the excuse of the just concluded elections in Kashmir and the possible restoration of statehood as improvements made by India and open up some trade and transport routes like the bus links. From there it's cricket, culture so on. Small steps before we get to anything substantial.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846819757405667503

Here's some one actually close to BJP government.

Planted stories.

 

[guard]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846819757405667503

Here's some one actually close to BJP government.

Planted stories.

Keep bilateral relations to yourself. Pakistanis couldnt give a hoot or two.

I wish the shameless cabal would grow a pair and actually act with an ounce of respect (the mafia and respect ). Stupid shameless idiots. You dont represent ordinary Pakistanis, only your paymasters

 

[cricketjoshila]

Keep bilateral relations to yourself. Pakistanis couldnt give a hoot or two.

I wish the shameless cabal would grow a pair and actually act with an ounce of respect (the mafia and respect ). Stupid shameless idiots. You dont represent ordinary Pakistanis, only your paymasters

India isn't interested. You are acting as if Indians are begging for talks.

 

[guard]

India isn't interested. You are acting as if Indians are begging for talks.

We know…

As i said, i wish the incumbent Cabal would act with self respect. Tall order given who they are and what they’re capable of.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846819757405667503

Here's some one actually close to BJP government.

Planted stories.

Looks like the dastardly Pakistan plan worked. Pakistan was showing "desperation" to get India's attention, and this guy who is close to the BJP govt in your own words, gave it to them.

 

[globetrotter]

If you carefully watch the aircraft in which Jaishankar traveled to Pakistan.. it was Indian airforce Meghdoot aeroplane which is a so-so plane small in size, looks KL like not well maintained. India have taken every care that Pakistan shouldn’t ask any loan toJaishankar

 

[FearlessRoar]

SCO summit could lead to improvement in Pakistan-India ties: Nawaz​

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) President Nawaz Sharif hoped that the SCO summit hosted by Islamabad this week could result in an improvement in ties between India and Pakistan.

He made the statement in a meeting with a delegation of Indian journalists who came to Pakistan for the coverage of recently concluded Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) moot attended by foreign leaders from 10 countries.

The meeting was also attended by Punjab Chief Minister Maryam Nawaz and senior minister Marriyum Aurangzeb.

Stressing the need to revive cricket diplomacy between the South Asian nations, Nawaz said that the Indian cricket team should visit Pakistan for the upcoming ICC Champions Trophy 2025.

"If you ask the Indian cricket team, they would also suggest playing in Pakistan. Despite they are ready to play, however, those who have power to allow them don't grant them permission," he told the journalists.

He said it would have been better had Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi attended the SCO conference in Pakistan, however, the arrival of the neighbouring country’s foreign minister was also a good sign.

Jaishankar, who attended the SCO moot held in Islamabad, was the first foreign minister of the neighbouring country to visit Pakistan in nearly a decade.

While departing from Islamabad after the regional event, Jaishankar thanked PM Shehbaz Sharif, Deputy Prime Minister and his Pakistani counterpart Ishaq Dar and the government for the "hospitality and courtesies".

In his interaction with the journalists, the three-time former prime minister said although the two countries had a bitter past, there is need to look forward and talk about the future.

Shedding light on mutual issues which could be points of collaboration, the PML-N president said that Islamabad and New Delhi needed to immediately work on climate change and bilateral trade.

Pointing towards suspended trade ties between the neighbours for years, Nawaz told the foreign journalists that the cost of different Indian commodities and vegetables has increased in Pakistan as the products arrived in Pakistan via Dubai.

"Improved Pakistan-India relations would allow transportation of essential commodities to Pakistan within two hours," he added.

Prior to this meeting, Nawaz was also interviewed by renowned Indian journalist Barkha Dutt earlier this week before the commencement of the highly-anticipated SCO conference.

In the interview, the former prime minister had expressed optimism about meeting Indian premier Modi in the near future as he advocated improved relations with the neighbouring country.

“I have always been a supporter of good relations with India,” Nawaz said, expressing hope that there was an opportunity to revive the relationship.

“It would have been a great thing if PM [Narendra] Modi had also attended the SCO summit. I do hope that he and us will have an opportunity to sit together in the not-so-distant future,” the former premier said.

Relations between the two countries have gone through periods of thaw from time to time but have been largely frozen since Pakistan downgraded diplomatic ties in 2019 following abrogation of Article 370 — revoking special status of Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK).

Islamabad has linked its decision to normalising ties with New Delhi with the restoration of the special status of the IIOJK.

Despite the frosty ties, the two countries agreed to renew the 2003 ceasefire agreement along the Line of Control (LoC) in February 2021.

SCO summit may improve Pakistan-India ties: Nawaz

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz President Nawaz Sharif hoped that the SCO summit hosted by Islamabad this week could result in an improvement in ties between India and Pakistan.He made the statement...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[FearlessRoar]

I was not expecting such nice gesture from him

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846508966152454176

 

[KingKhanWC]

On behalf of all PPers from Bharat, I would like to thank the people of Pakistan and their government for the warm hospitality bestowed to EAM Jaishankar. Much appreciated. These little steps will go a long way in bridging the gap one day hopefully. Love & Gratitude.

Did he plant any trees like many visiting diplomats do?

After all India killed over a dozen lovely trees in the past.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I was not expecting such nice gesture from him

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846508966152454176

This is diplomatic nicety. You thank your host.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846819757405667503

Here's some one actually close to BJP government.

Planted stories.

Totally expected. If India and Pakistan ever become buddies, the BJP might need to find a new hobby. Lol.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is diplomatic nicety. You thank your host.

Looks like Jaishankar got an up-close taste of that famous 'fantastic' Pakistani tea.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Did he plant any trees like many visiting diplomats do?

After all India killed over a dozen lovely trees in the past.

Let bygones by bygones brother.
Who wants to live in a troubled world. Let us contribute in bridging the gaps. I am personally not in favour of no dialogue. There must always be some channel of communication so it was good to see EAM Jaishankar in Pakistan where he met your PM. Small steps

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Let bygones by bygones brother.
Who wants to live in a troubled world. Let us contribute in bridging the gaps. I am personally not in favour of no dialogue. There must always be some channel of communication so it was good to see EAM Jaishankar in Pakistan where he met your PM. Small steps

You want communication now? Just a few days ago, you were arguing that India shouldn't allow Pakistani movies to be released here, but now you are saying something entirely different.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Let bygones by bygones brother.
Who wants to live in a troubled world. Let us contribute in bridging the gaps. I am personally not in favour of no dialogue. There must always be some channel of communication so it was good to see EAM Jaishankar in Pakistan where he met your PM. Small steps

Kitna troll karega bhai.

 

[guard]

Looks like Jaishankar got an up-close taste of that famous 'fantastic' Pakistani tea.

Ah c’mon man.

Don’t do this

 

[rpant_gabba]

Ah c’mon man.

Don’t do this

For someone who claims to be an Indian he doesn't have much fidelity to India's interests, does he?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Totally expected. If India and Pakistan ever become buddies, the BJP might need to find a new hobby. Lol.

BJP don't have to worry about that. Pak establishment will make sure that never happens, becos their existence depends on the India boogeyman.

 

[HalBass9]

BJP don't have to worry about that. Pak establishment will make sure that never happens, becos their existence depends on the India boogeyman.

Repeating the Hindutva rhetoric “the Pakistan and Muslim” boogeyman.

 

[cricketjoshila]

BJP don't have to worry about that. Pak establishment will make sure that never happens, becos their existence depends on the India boogeyman.

See everytime there is a peace initiative, terrorist attacks happen in India.

Vajpayee went to Lahore, Kargil happens.

MMS kept doing these initiatives, terrorist attacks kept happening in India till Mumbai.

Modi tried once, Pathankot happened. Since then he has shut the door on Pakistan. No major terror attacks outside Kashmir.

Pretty obvious that any peace initiative will be used to harm India till India stops them. Then start this drama again to restart another initiative. And the cycle continues.

Pakistanis will keep denying this, but it isn't going to matter.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Repeating the Hindutva rhetoric “the Pakistan and Muslim” boogeyman.

Sure, Pak establishment is peace Operation grandslam, gibraltar, searchlight, Kargil and 26/11 are evidence of this.

Hindutva bad

 

[HalBass9]

Sure, Pak establishment is peace Operation grandslam, gibraltar, searchlight, Kargil and 26/11 are evidence of this.

Hindutva bad

lol,

There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that the Pakistani establishment was involved in the 26/11 attacks.

The other incidents referenced were military operations against the Indian military.

This thread exemplifies why Hindutva rhetoric finds an audience in India, as there are many who are receptive to it.

Hindutva, as an ideology, is problematic because it is rooted in the notion of Hindu religious supremacy, which is something that most atheists would oppose, unless, of course, they align with the ideology of Hindutva.


Even if the Modi government sought to pursue dialogue and adopt a more inclusive approach towards Muslim minorities, many of its Hindutva supporters would likely turn against it. Hindutva ideology, which holds significant influence in India, prioritizes dominance and could lead to extreme measures if they feel their supremacy is challenged.

In Pakistan, the military has historically relied on the narrative of external threats, but this approach is becoming less effective. Meanwhile, in India, the government often promotes an ‘anti-Pakistan and anti-Muslim’ narrative, which finds a wide audience, particularly among those still seeking retribution for the rule of Muslim emperors centuries ago.

So next time put a disclaimer as to which mask you had on when you typed it up.

Disclaimer: absolutely no interest in debating you over whether you are closet Hindutva pretending atheist.

 

[Red-Indian]

SCO summit could lead to improvement in Pakistan-India ties: Nawaz​

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) President Nawaz Sharif hoped that the SCO summit hosted by Islamabad this week could result in an improvement in ties between India and Pakistan.

He made the statement in a meeting with a delegation of Indian journalists who came to Pakistan for the coverage of recently concluded Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) moot attended by foreign leaders from 10 countries.

The meeting was also attended by Punjab Chief Minister Maryam Nawaz and senior minister Marriyum Aurangzeb.

Stressing the need to revive cricket diplomacy between the South Asian nations, Nawaz said that the Indian cricket team should visit Pakistan for the upcoming ICC Champions Trophy 2025.

"If you ask the Indian cricket team, they would also suggest playing in Pakistan. Despite they are ready to play, however, those who have power to allow them don't grant them permission," he told the journalists.

He said it would have been better had Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi attended the SCO conference in Pakistan, however, the arrival of the neighbouring country’s foreign minister was also a good sign.

Jaishankar, who attended the SCO moot held in Islamabad, was the first foreign minister of the neighbouring country to visit Pakistan in nearly a decade.

While departing from Islamabad after the regional event, Jaishankar thanked PM Shehbaz Sharif, Deputy Prime Minister and his Pakistani counterpart Ishaq Dar and the government for the "hospitality and courtesies".

In his interaction with the journalists, the three-time former prime minister said although the two countries had a bitter past, there is need to look forward and talk about the future.

Shedding light on mutual issues which could be points of collaboration, the PML-N president said that Islamabad and New Delhi needed to immediately work on climate change and bilateral trade.

Pointing towards suspended trade ties between the neighbours for years, Nawaz told the foreign journalists that the cost of different Indian commodities and vegetables has increased in Pakistan as the products arrived in Pakistan via Dubai.

"Improved Pakistan-India relations would allow transportation of essential commodities to Pakistan within two hours," he added.

Prior to this meeting, Nawaz was also interviewed by renowned Indian journalist Barkha Dutt earlier this week before the commencement of the highly-anticipated SCO conference.

In the interview, the former prime minister had expressed optimism about meeting Indian premier Modi in the near future as he advocated improved relations with the neighbouring country.

“I have always been a supporter of good relations with India,” Nawaz said, expressing hope that there was an opportunity to revive the relationship.

“It would have been a great thing if PM [Narendra] Modi had also attended the SCO summit. I do hope that he and us will have an opportunity to sit together in the not-so-distant future,” the former premier said.

Relations between the two countries have gone through periods of thaw from time to time but have been largely frozen since Pakistan downgraded diplomatic ties in 2019 following abrogation of Article 370 — revoking special status of Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK).

Islamabad has linked its decision to normalising ties with New Delhi with the restoration of the special status of the IIOJK.

Despite the frosty ties, the two countries agreed to renew the 2003 ceasefire agreement along the Line of Control (LoC) in February 2021.

SCO summit may improve Pakistan-India ties: Nawaz

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz President Nawaz Sharif hoped that the SCO summit hosted by Islamabad this week could result in an improvement in ties between India and Pakistan.He made the statement...

www.thenews.com.pk

Well Nawaz is certainly laying it on very thick. Lot of signals being given. Let's see if the Indian government responds. It's tougher for Modi and co. because hostility towards Pakistan is one of their core planks and there's certainly nothing to gain in the short to medium term in beginning the diplomatic dance.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Well Nawaz is certainly laying it on very thick. Lot of signals being given. Let's see if the Indian government responds. It's tougher for Modi and co. because hostility towards Pakistan is one of their core planks and there's certainly nothing to gain in the short to medium term in beginning the diplomatic dance.

few weeks? few months? few years?

In the longterm it hasn't worked out. What exactly can pakistan bring to the table?

As Mosharaff Zaidi put it, they don't have the "policy" space they used to fro their past shenanigans. So it has to be something substantially positive.

What is substantially positive about pakistan?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Well Nawaz is certainly laying it on very thick. Lot of signals being given. Let's see if the Indian government responds. It's tougher for Modi and co. because hostility towards Pakistan is one of their core planks and there's certainly nothing to gain in the short to medium term in beginning the diplomatic dance.

Haven't they been doing that forever? outside of IK tantrums I mean

 

[Red-Indian]

few weeks? few months? few years?

In the longterm it hasn't worked out. What exactly can pakistan bring to the table?

As Mosharaff Zaidi put it, they don't have the "policy" space they used to fro their past shenanigans. So it has to be something substantially positive.

What is substantially positive about pakistan?

Let's say 2-3 years...maybe even more of I'm being honest. Even if there is wild success in the talks i.e. solidify LOC as the international border, open up trade, convict a couple of the most open terrorists, there's nothing to be gained by India for 2-3 years. We certainly won't be able to trust them enough to reduce military presence on the western border and their economy is too weak right now to be of any major benefit as a market.

Longer term though, it removes a major irritant if we can get to a US-Mexico type relationship or China-Phillipines type relationship. Not friendly by any means and definitely tight borders but open trade and no hostilities.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Let's say 2-3 years...maybe even more of I'm being honest. Even if there is wild success in the talks i.e. solidify LOC as the international border, open up trade, convict a couple of the most open terrorists, there's nothing to be gained by India for 2-3 years. We certainly won't be able to trust them enough to reduce military presence on the western border and their economy is too weak right now to be of any major benefit as a market.

Longer term though, it removes a major irritant if we can get to a US-Mexico type relationship or China-Phillipines type relationship. Not friendly by any means and definitely tight borders but open trade and no hostilities.

Can't wait to hear Pak members take on this.

You honestly think Pak establishment or Pak citizens will settle for that. all you have to do is look at PCB's behavior towards BCCI.

 

[Red-Indian]

Can't wait to hear Pak members take on this.

You honestly think Pak establishment or Pak citizens will settle for that. all you have to do is look at PCB's behavior towards BCCI.

Whether they like it or not, that's the best they can hope for. They're a sixth of our population, a tenth of our economy. Given the relative growth rates, institutional maturity and development trajectories, it's only going to get worse.

I think a lot of them will blow hard but if they're honest, they know this is long-term decent objective. Korea's never going to have same power and influence as China but ask me where I'd rather live.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Whether they like it or not, that's the best they can hope for. They're a sixth of our population, a tenth of our economy. Given the relative growth rates, institutional maturity and development trajectories, it's only going to get worse.

Agreed.

Don't think they see that. too much Jazba and inherent untrustworthy quality about pakistan as a nation. all the more reason for India to stay back while they are busy screwing themselves over

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Let's say 2-3 years...maybe even more of I'm being honest. Even if there is wild success in the talks i.e. solidify LOC as the international border, open up trade, convict a couple of the most open terrorists, there's nothing to be gained by India for 2-3 years. We certainly won't be able to trust them enough to reduce military presence on the western border and their economy is too weak right now to be of any major benefit as a market.

Longer term though, it removes a major irritant if we can get to a US-Mexico type relationship or China-Phillipines type relationship. Not friendly by any means and definitely tight borders but open trade and no hostilities.

Never going to happen while you have a hardline hindutva govt sitting, with RSS doctrines underpinning the ideology of the country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Can't wait to hear Pak members take on this.

You honestly think Pak establishment or Pak citizens will settle for that. all you have to do is look at PCB's behavior towards BCCI.

I am not a Pakistani so this is a view once removed, but I don't think Pakistan will ever be the driving factor for better relations. It has always been India, and as the far larger and more influential partner, that is how it should be. If India wants better relations they can push them through if they are even slightly competent and consider themselves a big player in the region.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Longer term though, it removes a major irritant if we can get to a US-Mexico type relationship or China-Phillipines type relationship. Not friendly by any means and definitely tight borders but open trade and no hostilities.

Pakistan doesn't need that type of relationship.

There is a third party in the region here that doesn't exist in the other relationships you have mentioned that means that the US Mexico dynamic isn't needed.

You guys need it more(apart from cricket). I'm not trolling when I say this btw not saying it from jingoist perspective. If India really wants to take it country to the next level then it needs to deal with the nuisance next door. It hasn't been able to isolate it(instead it has isolated itself in the region),it might be able to take it down militarily but will lose itself in the process, at some point it will have to extend an olive branch.

 

[HalBass9]

After reading through this thread, it seems that many Indians, from various walks of life, view themselves as the dominant power in the region, akin to how the U.S. is perceived globally.

I don’t entirely fault them for this perspective, as their media, social gatherings, politicians, and religious leaders have collectively shaped and reinforced this mindset.

 

[RexRex]

After reading through this thread, it seems that many Indians, from various walks of life, view themselves as the dominant power in the region, akin to how the U.S. is perceived globally.

which region ? Subcontinent ?

 

[Red-Indian]

Pakistan doesn't need that type of relationship.

There is a third party in the region here that doesn't exist in the other relationships you have mentioned that means that the US Mexico dynamic isn't needed.

You guys need it more(apart from cricket). I'm not trolling when I say this btw not saying it from jingoist perspective. If India really wants to take it country to the next level then it needs to deal with the nuisance next door. It hasn't been able to isolate it(instead it has isolated itself in the region),it might be able to take it down militarily but will lose itself in the process, at some point it will have to extend an olive branch.

Maybe. China's a weird entity to rely on in the long term. First, it's not a democracy. Pakistan still aspires to be one. Second language, culture, worldview etc. are different enough to make for uneasy bedfellows. I'm sure Pakistan aspires to be more than just a satellite of China in the long term and would prefer to live in a more multilateral environment.

Which is why I gave the specific example of Mexico and Philippines rather than say Canada and Vietnam. Philippines hosts several US military bases but until recently was part of the Belt and Road initiative. Pakistan and India don't have to be (and are never going to be chaddi-buddies like the US and Canada but we can and should aspire to be more than we are today. Mexico's another decent example. There's a lot of historical baggage and hostility and there are phases when Mexican presidents have come to power on an anti-US influence platform. Still that doesn't stop the trade.

As to India needing it, I see your view but feel it's unrealistic. Sure it would be nice not to have an actively hostile neighbour but we can afford to wait 5-10 years for Pakistan to sort itself out internally. We've almost completely insulated ourselves at this point. As far as being isolated in the region, I wouldn't take that seriously. China has a lot of balls to keep in the air - it's pouring money into South East Asia, Africa and even angling for influence in South America. We can afford to focus on South Asia and have enough money and technical expertise to lend out and reel the small countries back in. Sri Lanka is drifting back in and Bangladesh will have to come back. Like it or not (and I know @HalBass9 doesn't), we're the big fish in a small pond in South Asia and others in the area will have to learn to live with us.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

which region ? Subcontinent ?

That would be the logical area of Asia which India should want under it's umbrella for sure.

 

[Champ_Pal]

After reading through this thread, it seems that many Indians, from various walks of life, view themselves as the dominant power in the region, akin to how the U.S. is perceived globally.

I don’t entirely fault them for this perspective, as their media, social gatherings, politicians, and religious leaders have collectively shaped and reinforced this mindset.

India is an economic power and with its growing GDP, middle class and massive population, it will remain a massive investment opportunity for all major corporations around the world. Money controls world politics. West will jeopardize their relations with India over petty issues like Khalistani separatists.
Right now, Trudeau is throwing stones at India in an attempt to get Khalistani Sikh votes in the coming elections. Why will countries like USA, England, Australia, NZ etc go against India for the sake of re-election of Trudeau?

Trudeau did not think through how this whole saga will unfold. He has miscalculated India's response. He thought India would be on its knees begging for forgiveness from his Government. That did not happen.

The ball is still in Trudeau's court. But he is in a tight situation. He already shot the arrows which cannot be taken back. At the same time he is not getting the response from India or his allies in the West that he was hoping to get.

I am reading that this whole issue is a smoke screen to hide the alleged Chinese involvement in him becoming the PM during previous elections. At least that is what the Opposition is blaming Trudeau government. Opposition are saying that Trudeau Government is using the India issue to portray Trudeau as a patriot who is standing up for his country and people. Just to show Trudeau will never collude with CCP and China. Its all getting mirky. Truth should come out soon.

 

[RexRex]

That would be the logical area of Asia which India should want under it's umbrella for sure.

Umbrella is such a vague term that means nothing. India trades extensiviely with all its neighbours except Pak, what else would it want ? There's only one real coalition/umbrella in the world today and that is NATO.

 

[HalBass9]

Maybe. China's a weird entity to rely on in the long term. First, it's not a democracy. Pakistan still aspires to be one. Second language, culture, worldview etc. are different enough to make for uneasy bedfellows. I'm sure Pakistan aspires to be more than just a satellite of China in the long term and would prefer to live in a more multilateral environment.

Which is why I gave the specific example of Mexico and Philippines rather than say Canada and Vietnam. Philippines hosts several US military bases but until recently was part of the Belt and Road initiative. Pakistan and India don't have to be (and are never going to be chaddi-buddies like the US and Canada but we can and should aspire to be more than we are today. Mexico's another decent example. There's a lot of historical baggage and hostility and there are phases when Mexican presidents have come to power on an anti-US influence platform. Still that doesn't stop the trade.

As to India needing it, I see your view but feel it's unrealistic. Sure it would be nice not to have an actively hostile neighbour but we can afford to wait 5-10 years for Pakistan to sort itself out internally. We've almost completely insulated ourselves at this point. As far as being isolated in the region, I wouldn't take that seriously. China has a lot of balls to keep in the air - it's pouring money into South East Asia, Africa and even angling for influence in South America. We can afford to focus on South Asia and have enough money and technical expertise to lend out and reel the small countries back in. Sri Lanka is drifting back in and Bangladesh will have to come back. Like it or not (and I know @HalBass9 doesn't), we're the big fish in a small pond in South Asia and others in the area will have to learn to live with us.

It seems as though I am reading a script from Indian news media.

I believe there may be a misunderstanding. I genuinely desire cordial relations between India and Pakistan, which I feel can only be achieved if the influence of Hindutva diminishes. Currently, the only party benefiting from the fractured relationship between India and Pakistan appears to be Hindutva.

Even China advocates for improved relations between Pakistan and India.

You are correct in noting that, after reviewing this thread, it’s clear that India has insulated itself, and your comments reflect this sentiment.

 

[HalBass9]

India is an economic power and with its growing GDP, middle class and massive population, it will remain a massive investment opportunity for all major corporations around the world. Money controls world politics. West will jeopardize their relations with India over petty issues like Khalistani separatists.
Right now, Trudeau is throwing stones at India in an attempt to get Khalistani Sikh votes in the coming elections. Why will countries like USA, England, Australia, NZ etc go against India for the sake of re-election of Trudeau?

Trudeau did not think through how this whole saga will unfold. He has miscalculated India's response. He thought India would be on its knees begging for forgiveness from his Government. That did not happen.

The ball is still in Trudeau's court. But he is in a tight situation. He already shot the arrows which cannot be taken back. At the same time he is not getting the response from India or his allies in the West that he was hoping to get.

I am reading that this whole issue is a smoke screen to hide the alleged Chinese involvement in him becoming the PM during previous elections. At least that is what the Opposition is blaming Trudeau government. Opposition are saying that Trudeau Government is using the India issue to portray Trudeau as a patriot who is standing up for his country and people. Just to show Trudeau will never collude with CCP and China. Its all getting mirky. Truth should come out soon.

India is an economic power; however, it is also a source from which thousands of illegal migrants are traveling to Western countries.

As I mentioned earlier, the media, politicians, and religious leaders have contributed to a narrow perspective on these issues.

Regarding Canada, India has been involved, and any sitting Prime Minister had no choice but to hold that press conference.
You all attempting to make it seem as if India was not involved. That narrative may work within 'insulated' India but no where else.

 

[Champ_Pal]

India is an economic power; however, it is also a source from which thousands of illegal migrants are traveling to Western countries.

As I mentioned earlier, the media, politicians, and religious leaders have contributed to a narrow perspective on these issues.

Regarding Canada, India has been involved, and any sitting Prime Minister had no choice but to hold that press conference.
You all attempting to make it seem as if India was not involved. That narrative may work within 'insulated' India but no where else.

Whether India is involved or not is still awaited. I will not be surprised if India is involved in this. They thought Trudeau is a weakling and a pushover. They miscaclulated in their strategy. However, Trudeau also miscalculated in his response to the events. Nothing is going his way either.
Till now he has not provided any credible evidence. He is saying they shared some intelligence info with Indian Government. But no proper evidence. Trudeau is looking like a clown with each passing day. Only allegations with no solid evidence.

I am not denying that India is innocent. But Trudeau jumped the gun and shot the bullets prematurely. He ran to his friends in the West to put pressure on India. He did not get any proper response from them.

This story will continue until a new Government is formed in Canada.

 

[HalBass9]

Whether India is involved or not is still awaited. I will not be surprised if India is involved in this. They thought Trudeau is a weakling and a pushover. They miscaclulated in their strategy. However, Trudeau also miscalculated in his response to the events. Nothing is going his way either.
Till now he has not provided any credible evidence. He is saying they shared some intelligence info with Indian Government. But no proper evidence. Trudeau is looking like a clown with each passing day. Only allegations with no solid evidence.

I am not denying that India is innocent. But Trudeau jumped the gun and shot the bullets prematurely. He ran to his friends in the West to put pressure on India. He did not get any proper response from them.

This story will continue until a new Government is formed in Canada.

Why do some individuals in India respond to criticism with an 'absolute' stance?

When it comes to pressure on India, what do you think Western leaders are expected to do? Do you genuinely believe that Trudeau is suggesting Modi should be arrested, and that this was the intent behind his press conference?

Why do you assume that everyone on this forum lacks insight? I believe this perception arises from a sense of isolation shaped by media, political leaders, and religious figures.

It’s crucial to understand that Trudeau, or any sitting Prime Minister of Canada, had no choice but to hold that press conference. Please consider the implications of this action.

 

[deltexas]

lol,

There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that the Pakistani establishment was involved in the 26/11 attacks.

The other incidents referenced were military operations against the Indian military.

This thread exemplifies why Hindutva rhetoric finds an audience in India, as there are many who are receptive to it.

Hindutva, as an ideology, is problematic because it is rooted in the notion of Hindu religious supremacy, which is something that most atheists would oppose, unless, of course, they align with the ideology of Hindutva.


Even if the Modi government sought to pursue dialogue and adopt a more inclusive approach towards Muslim minorities, many of its Hindutva supporters would likely turn against it. Hindutva ideology, which holds significant influence in India, prioritizes dominance and could lead to extreme measures if they feel their supremacy is challenged.

In Pakistan, the military has historically relied on the narrative of external threats, but this approach is becoming less effective. Meanwhile, in India, the government often promotes an ‘anti-Pakistan and anti-Muslim’ narrative, which finds a wide audience, particularly among those still seeking retribution for the rule of Muslim emperors centuries ago.

So next time put a disclaimer as to which mask you had on when you typed it up.

Disclaimer: absolutely no interest in debating you over whether you are closet Hindutva pretending atheist.

Evidence lol! A look online shows which country has the most designated terro3outfits in the world. Pak is a leader there - well done you guys keep it up. 71 war, kargil, 26-11 etc etc list is so long. And the military operations you claim- well Pak lost and surrendered so bad and such a waste of military lives.

 

[deltexas]

Why do some individuals in India respond to criticism with an 'absolute' stance?

When it comes to pressure on India, what do you think Western leaders are expected to do? Do you genuinely believe that Trudeau is suggesting Modi should be arrested, and that this was the intent behind his press conference?

Why do you assume that everyone on this forum lacks insight? I believe this perception arises from a sense of isolation shaped by media, political leaders, and religious figures.

It’s crucial to understand that Trudeau, or any sitting Prime Minister of Canada, had no choice but to hold that press conference. Please consider the implications of this action.

Reality is if you are naive- Trudeau needs jasmit singh party for his gov coalition simple as that. No worries though- he will badly lose in the coming elections and conservatives will be in power

 

[HalBass9]

Evidence lol! A look online shows which country has the most designated terro3outfits in the world. Pak is a leader there - well done you guys keep it up. 71 war, kargil, 26-11 etc etc list is so long. And the military operations you claim- well Pak lost and surrendered so bad and such a waste of military lives.

There you go, another 'insulated' or 'isolated' one. Carry on.

 

[HalBass9]

Reality is if you are naive- Trudeau needs jasmit singh party for his gov coalition simple as that. No worries though- he will badly lose in the coming elections and conservatives will be in power

Sure!

 

[Red-Indian]

It seems as though I am reading a script from Indian news media.

I believe there may be a misunderstanding. I genuinely desire cordial relations between India and Pakistan, which I feel can only be achieved if the influence of Hindutva diminishes. Currently, the only party benefiting from the fractured relationship between India and Pakistan appears to be Hindutva.

Even China advocates for improved relations between Pakistan and India.

You are correct in noting that, after reviewing this thread, it’s clear that India has insulated itself, and your comments reflect this sentiment.

It's tough for you because your anti-India bias is so ingrained that it makes it difficult for you to see that I'm actually being realistic regarding India's influence. So far we're a frog in the small well of South Asia with hopes for more. Whether Pakistan likes it or not, it's in the same small well with us.

India's 'Hindutva' hasn't stopped it from doling out loans to Maldives (whose President came to power on an 'India out' platform) and Sri Lanka. Your bias won't let you see it but Modi's nothing if not a pragmatic politician. If Pakistan made a realistic approach, he wouldn't let some ideological hate stand in the way of a deal. He doesn't need Pakistan hate to keep his vote base in line. Dogwhistle red meat against India's Muslim population every couple of years come election time will do the job just fine.

As far as I'm concerned, Imran made it impossible with his shrill and ineffective Kashmir rhetoric but there's some hope for some improvement under the Sharifs and Army.

 

[deltexas]

Why do some individuals in India respond to criticism with an 'absolute' stance?

When it comes to pressure on India, what do you think Western leaders are expected to do? Do you genuinely believe that Trudeau is suggesting Modi should be arrested, and that this was the intent behind his press conference?

Why do you assume that everyone on this forum lacks insight? I believe this perception arises from a sense of isolation shaped by media, political leaders, and religious figures.

It’s crucial to understand that Trudeau, or any sitting Prime Minister of Canada, had no choice but to hold that press conference. Please consider the implications of this action.

What action? Trudeau is just saving his coalition here. If jasmeets party had 1 seat do you think Trudeau would really care about khalistan nonsense? He probably doesn't even know anything about it but just trying to keep his support base happy.

 

[Red-Indian]

Why do some individuals in India respond to criticism with an 'absolute' stance?

When it comes to pressure on India, what do you think Western leaders are expected to do? Do you genuinely believe that Trudeau is suggesting Modi should be arrested, and that this was the intent behind his press conference?

Why do you assume that everyone on this forum lacks insight? I believe this perception arises from a sense of isolation shaped by media, political leaders, and religious figures.

It’s crucial to understand that Trudeau, or any sitting Prime Minister of Canada, had no choice but to hold that press conference. Please consider the implications of this action.

You'll have to tell me what Trudeau's hoping for from this. If he has intelligence (likely from the States since he can't disclose openly), he knows that the operation probably had approvals within the Indian government likely pretty high up...maybe as high as Jaishankar, Shah even Modi. The Ambassador and local spies were just co-ordinators. India obviously can't waive their diplomatic immunity and let them take any blame.

If he'd kept it low profile like the Americans did, he'd have got co-operation. They've also accused an Indian government official. Yet India hasn't issued a single denial and has quietly confirmed that the guy is no longer in government employment - make of that what you will.

 

[HalBass9]

It's tough for you because your anti-India bias is so ingrained that it makes it difficult for you to see that I'm actually being realistic regarding India's influence. So far we're a frog in the small well of South Asia with hopes for more. Whether Pakistan likes it or not, it's in the same small well with us.

India's 'Hindutva' hasn't stopped it from doling out loans to Maldives (whose President came to power on an 'India out' platform) and Sri Lanka. Your bias won't let you see it but Modi's nothing if not a pragmatic politician. If Pakistan made a realistic approach, he wouldn't let some ideological hate stand in the way of a deal. He doesn't need Pakistan hate to keep his vote base in line. Dogwhistle red meat against India's Muslim population every couple of years come election time will do the job just fine.

As far as I'm concerned, Imran made it impossible with his shrill and ineffective Kashmir rhetoric but there's some hope for some improvement under the Sharifs and Army.

Criticism of Hindutva should not be conflated with criticism of India. I understand why some may intentionally blur these distinctions; without doing so, your arguments may lack support.

I have never denied India's significant economic influence; India is indeed the fifth-largest economy in the world.

However, the influence of Hindutva within India is hindering the establishment of cordial relations, as it benefits from the ongoing conflict between India and Pakistan, as well as from anti-Muslim rhetoric within India.

Moreover, it’s important not to downplay the impact that anti-Muslim rhetoric has on Indian elections. This reality is evident to many observers.

Regarding your reference to the Maldives, it reflects a misunderstanding of the situation. Hindutva proponents are not suggesting that Indian Muslims or others who disagree with their views should move to the Maldives; the focus is often on Pakistan.

Imran Khan, upon his election, made it clear that he sought cordial relations with India. However, after the revocation of Article 370, any Pakistani Prime Minister would feel compelled to address the Kashmir issue, as evidenced by recent statements, including those by Sharif at the UN. For many in Pakistan, the Kashmir issue is largely settled, yet Hindutva perspectives often aim to claim the entire region.

Your views seem to reflect a degree of insulated thinking.

 

[HalBass9]

You'll have to tell me what Trudeau's hoping for from this. If he has intelligence (likely from the States since he can't disclose openly), he knows that the operation probably had approvals within the Indian government likely pretty high up...maybe as high as Jaishankar, Shah even Modi. The Ambassador and local spies were just co-ordinators. India obviously can't waive their diplomatic immunity and let them take any blame.

If he'd kept it low profile like the Americans did, he'd have got co-operation. They've also accused an Indian government official. Yet India hasn't issued a single denial and has quietly confirmed that the guy is no longer in government employment - make of that what you will.

What could any sitting Canadian Prime Minister hope for, considering Canada is home to one of the largest Indian minorities?

 

[rpant_gabba]

@Red-Indian

I think we can safely state that there is pretty good sample of Pak opinion here.

There is enough of this at the leadership levels that any kind a of long term peaceful coexistence with India aligned with their economy is going to impossible for Pakistan.

If you think some of the posters have an anti india bias, what do you think their establishment does? It would be foolish for. India to trust Pak as a nation period. I'm not calling for a conflict, but India should do nothing for pakistan which in the hope a good relationship. all it will do is comeback to bite India in the ass. It has been the case for 80+ years. it will be so for the next few decades.

 

[rpant_gabba]

What could any sitting Canadian Prime Minister hope for, considering Canada is home to one of the largest Indian minorities?

1.8 million, of which 0.9 million is sikh, of which predominantly khalistani's. Even you should be able to connect the dots.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Why do some individuals in India respond to criticism with an 'absolute' stance?

When it comes to pressure on India, what do you think Western leaders are expected to do? Do you genuinely believe that Trudeau is suggesting Modi should be arrested, and that this was the intent behind his press conference?

Why do you assume that everyone on this forum lacks insight? I believe this perception arises from a sense of isolation shaped by media, political leaders, and religious figures.

It’s crucial to understand that Trudeau, or any sitting Prime Minister of Canada, had no choice but to hold that press conference. Please consider the implications of this action.

A PM should hold a press conference once he has irrefutable evidence. Not some intelligence inputs. He has accused even Indian Home Minister Amit Shah.

Trudeau has lot of domestic issues he is dealing with and with upcoming elections, he wanted to divert the attention of public and used this Indian RAW involvement in the killing of Nijjar. He could have handled it privately in a much decent fashion if he had any concerns with India. But the man went to public prematurely and threw lots of stones of Indian Government and RAW.

Bottomline is, Trudeau is using this Khalistani's assasination for political mileage. Whether this works for him or not, only time will tell. But he is jeopardizing close to 10 billion dollars of trade with India over a Terrorist like Nijjar.

 

[HalBass9]

1.8 million, of which 0.9 million is sikh, of which predominantly khalistani's. Even you should be able to connect the dots.

At times that is all it takes to win parliamentary elections.

 

[Red-Indian]

What could any sitting Canadian Prime Minister hope for, considering Canada is home to one of the largest Indian minorities?

I don't know to be honest. Whether India's actually guilty or not (and I'm inclined to believe we are), there's nothing to be gained by making this so high profile and backing India into a corner and demanding to be allowed to interrogate diplomats.

So I have no idea what he was hoping for in going all public with it. Now India cannot concede anything...even a behind the scenes admission of guilt. Unlike the States, he's not even going to get basic co-operation.

If it's just appeasement politics, then this is a just a stupid dance that both sides are engaging in.

 

[HalBass9]

@Red-Indian

I think we can safely state that there is pretty good sample of Pak opinion here.

There is enough of this at the leadership levels that any kind a of long term peaceful coexistence with India aligned with their economy is going to impossible for Pakistan.

If you think some of the posters have an anti india bias, what do you think their establishment does? It would be foolish for. India to trust Pak as a nation period. I'm not calling for a conflict, but India should do nothing for pakistan which in the hope a good relationship. all it will do is comeback to bite India in the ass. It has been the case for 80+ years. it will be so for the next few decades.

I believe that many Pakistanis have clearly expressed their anti-Hindutva sentiments while also articulating their views on Indians who do not support extremist ideologies against Muslims.

It seems you may be upset with those Pakistanis who have called out religious fanatics associated with Hindutva. However, as an atheist, it might be beneficial to approach this issue with an open mind, if you truly are an ashiest.

 

[HalBass9]

I don't know to be honest. Whether India's actually guilty or not (and I'm inclined to believe we are), there's nothing to be gained by making this so high profile and backing India into a corner and demanding to be allowed to interrogate diplomats.

So I have no idea what he was hoping for in going all public with it. Now India cannot concede anything...even a behind the scenes admission of guilt. Unlike the States, he's not even going to get basic co-operation.

If it's just appeasement politics, then this is a just a stupid dance that both sides are engaging in.

It serves a significant purpose, as it encourages individuals in India to think critically and consider creative solutions before resorting to extreme measures against Canadian citizens.

 

[psyoptica]

Reality is if you are naive- Trudeau needs jasmit singh party for his gov coalition simple as that. No worries though- he will badly lose in the coming elections and conservatives will be in power

You shouldn’t make comments when you have no clue about other countries politics. Trudeau beefing with India so he can gain support of Jagmeet Singh for a coalition. Dumbest thing I’ve heard all dat. Lmao

 

[rpant_gabba]

At times that is all it takes to win parliamentary elections.

and there you have it.

India has for long time has this soft gutless approach to foreign policy. Canada has tacitly ignored the harm caused to india by its citizens of sikh origin.

Trudeau thought he could get away with it. he is finding out the hard way, that he isn't.

 

[HalBass9]

and there you have it.

India has for long time has this soft gutless approach to foreign policy. Canada has tacitly ignored the harm caused to india by its citizens of sikh origin.

Trudeau thought he could get away with it. he is finding out the hard way, that he isn't.

lol. Okay

 

[Red-Indian]

@Red-Indian

I think we can safely state that there is pretty good sample of Pak opinion here.

There is enough of this at the leadership levels that any kind a of long term peaceful coexistence with India aligned with their economy is going to impossible for Pakistan.

If you think some of the posters have an anti india bias, what do you think their establishment does? It would be foolish for. India to trust Pak as a nation period. I'm not calling for a conflict, but India should do nothing for pakistan which in the hope a good relationship. all it will do is comeback to bite India in the ass. It has been the case for 80+ years. it will be so for the next few decades.

I like to think common sense will prevail. The generation with specific memories of partition is dead and gone. Any officers on either side who actually fought in an India Pakistan war - 1971 have retired in the 50+ years that have passed since then. Kargil was very limited conflict. Asim Munir himself started military service in 1986 long after any large scale war and seems to have been on the other side to adventurers like Faiz Hameed who went and partied with the Taliban weeks after the fall of Kabul. A more pragmatic establishment may be in control.

Where you're not asking for armed conflict, I'm also not asking for Sharif and Modi to fall into each others arms and start a bromance. It's only question of degree at this point. Can both sides start "trust but verify" simple measures on the long road to peaceful co-existence which may take a decade or so?

 

[Champ_Pal]

You shouldn’t make comments when you have no clue about other countries politics. Trudeau beefing with India so he can gain support of Jagmeet Singh for a coalition. Dumbest thing I’ve heard all dat. Lmao

He needs all the votes he can get in the upcoming elections.

I will not be surprised of CCP is behind all this drama. Trudeau is a CCP puppet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/10/canada-china-foreign-interference-trudeau/

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Umbrella is such a vague term that means nothing. India trades extensiviely with all its neighbours except Pak, what else would it want ? There's only one real coalition/umbrella in the world today and that is NATO.

Umbrella is just a term which I used to describe influence, it wasn't meant to be dissected and analysed for exact meaning. Pakistan also has opportunity for trade with all it's neighbours, China has significant investment there, and that certainly has pissed off some other neighbours for sure. US has always wanted a say because of it's geopolitical location. India is not indifferent to Pakistan, that much is there for all to see. I suppose it then just becomes a decision whether the relationship should be congenial or actively hostile.