How did Shaun Pollock manage to achieve so much success as a bowler?

[BunnyRabbit]

Looking back on career of Shaun Pollock, he is a massively underrated allrounder in all formats of the game. A powerful hitter and a reliable no. 7 batter capable of scoring hundreds, his batting potential was obviously not realized. But where he overachieved is his bowling. He was never a 140kph bowler. He was a workhorse, bowled long and tight spells often going less than 3 rpo. He wasn't a masterful swing or seam bowler, made good use of the conditions he played in. But I am still amazed to see how he managed to play for so long while maintaining his bowling figures. He was very hard to take the attack to. Was miserly with the ball all the time. His fitness was always good enough. The likes of Donald, Steyn and to an extent Ntini get all the praise but Pollock often gets overlooked. But it is pretty amazing that no one was able to crack the code of Pollock throughout his career.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

He was also a good all rounder batting down the order. Used to hit boundaries with ease at end. Besides a bowler, this facet of his career is also usually ignored.

 

[Rana]

Pollock is a massive unit, he’s about 6ft 4 and a very good athlete. On top of that, the guy was one of the most intelligent cricketers of his era. So 130-140kmh with his frame gives him enough purchase on the surfaces given his ability to swing the new ball and probably reverse the old ball in the 1 ball era in white ball cricket.

He stuck to his basics as a bowler and was rewarded, didn’t try to do anything out of the ordinary.

He also bowled in an era where it became harder and harder to bat as the ball got older. On top of that, bowler’s name+reputation carried you through as well. It’s not like today where newbie SENA batters are just watching the ball and don’t care if it’s Archer or Bumrah bowling to you. Some names, Pollock, McGrath, Akram, Warne etc commanded respect.

 

[Bewal Express]

He came in with a reputation for hitting people on the head and in his 1st series against England 1995, he smacked Robin Smith and Greame Hick amongst others. He then slowed down and became an excellent line and length bowler with lots of movement

 

[Cricket Warrior]

He was the most accurate bowler of his era after McGrath capable of pitching the ball in the same spot 6 out of 6 times.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He was never very quick. Tall but not a 6'5" behemoth either.

Bowling from very close to offstump , he bowled a very tight line and a stumps hitting length with a wobble seam which got him a lot of success with the new ball.

He has been smashed too. Notably by left handers like Gilly, Hayden , Jayasuriya

 

[Buffet]

Looking back on career of Shaun Pollock, he is a massively underrated allrounder in all formats of the game. A powerful hitter and a reliable no. 7 batter capable of scoring hundreds, his batting potential was obviously not realized. But where he overachieved is his bowling. He was never a 140kph bowler. He was a workhorse, bowled long and tight spells often going less than 3 rpo. He wasn't a masterful swing or seam bowler, made good use of the conditions he played in. But I am still amazed to see how he managed to play for so long while maintaining his bowling figures. He was very hard to take the attack to. Was miserly with the ball all the time. His fitness was always good enough. The likes of Donald, Steyn and to an extent Ntini get all the praise but Pollock often gets overlooked. But it is pretty amazing that no one was able to crack the code of Pollock throughout his career.

Pollock was as good as any bowler in history in 90s. A genuine strike bowler. He lost his striking abilities in 00s.

One of the best in limited overs in history and very god record in the test format.

 

[sweep_shot]

He had good line and length. That was the secret behind his success.

South African McGrath.

 

[Hitman]

He was a bowler par excellence. 10x better than some nandrolone infected junkies.

 

[Buffet]

Pollock was harder to hit than McGrath and Wasim in ODI format. Not just economical, he ran through sides in ODI.



In the test format, only 6 bowlers averaged below 25 during his playing days. He was among them. He was not that effective agasint the top 5 teams of his era in their den and that's why less celebrated. But a top class test and ODI bowler and then you add his batting.

 

[Ab Fan]

Similar to how McGrath did.

But McGrath was a bride and Pollock was a bridesmaid so McGrath overshadowed him quite comfortably in that era, especially in second half when South Africa lost Donald.

He was a 30 averaging batter while McGrath is a tailender. That shouldn't be forgotten either.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pollock was as good as any bowler in history in 90s. A genuine strike bowler. He lost his striking abilities in 00s.

One of the best in limited overs in history and very god record in the test format.

He was still extremely hard to get away in both ODIs and Tests in 2000s.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Similar to how McGrath did.

But McGrath was a bride and Pollock was a bridesmaid so McGrath overshadowed him quite comfortably in that era, especially in second half when South Africa lost Donald.

He was a 30 averaging batter while McGrath is a tailender. That shouldn't be forgotten either.

McGrath could swing the ball extremely well which is often overlooked something Pollock lacked to an extent IMO. Pollock isn't celebrated much though.
Maybe having Donald and Ntini on the other end helped his cause in tests as well.
He could bowl all day long if you'd ask him to.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pollock was harder to hit than McGrath and Wasim in ODI format. Not just economical, he ran through sides in ODI.

View attachment 146393

In the test format, only 6 bowlers averaged below 25 during his playing days. He was among them. He was not that effective agasint the top 5 teams of his era in their den and that's why less celebrated. But a top class test and ODI bowler and then you add his batting.

View attachment 146394

excellent post.
The difference of 5fers in similar amount of tests is telling in tests between him and Mcgrath. McGrath was another breed though. An anomaly I'd say. If McGrath didn't exist, Pollock would have been talked about the greatest fourth stump bowler of all time maybe?
Steyn was simply a menace as seen by his killer SR of 37 here.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He had good line and length. That was the secret behind his success.

South African McGrath.

But lacked the little magic that seperated Mcgrath from him I believe in Tests.
A bowling attack of Steyn, Donald, Pollock and Rabada would be a sight to behold.

 

[sweep_shot]

But lacked the little magic that seperated Mcgrath from him I believe in Tests.
A bowling attack of Steyn, Donald, Pollock and Rabada would be a sight to behold.

McGrath was better than Pollock without a doubt. A level above.

Anyway, Pollock is possibly South Africa's greatest ODI bowler of all time.

I remember Pollock once had an opening bowling figure of 6-4-2-0 in an ODI game. He gave away 2 runs in 6 overs. Pretty insane.

 

[hassan918]

He had very good control on the line and length which is why he was able to have such a good career at a fast bowler. Also, in that era batters were usually playing conventional shots and it was easier for bowlers to be successful by only bowling on a decent line and length. I don't think he would be able to have such a good career in today's cricket where batters have invented so many inventive shots.

 

[Ab Fan]

McGrath was better than Pollock without a doubt. A level above.

Anyway, Pollock is possibly South Africa's greatest ODI bowler of all time.

I remember Pollock once had an opening bowling figure of 6-4-2-0 in an ODI game. He gave away 2 runs in 6 overs. Pretty insane.

Pollock is underrated though. Sure, McGrath was better bowler comfortably but when look as cricketer, Pollock averages 32 with bat in Tests and mid 20s in ODIs also. McGrath was a proper no.11, a genuine tailender. It is just McGrath played in a team where his legacy went on to build further and further while Pollock despite being good enough to contribute a lot with bat feel behind.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pollock is underrated though. Sure, McGrath was better bowler comfortably but when look as cricketer, Pollock averages 32 with bat in Tests and mid 20s in ODIs also. McGrath was a proper no.11, a genuine tailender. It is just McGrath played in a team where his legacy went on to build further and further while Pollock despite being good enough to contribute a lot with bat feel behind.

For sure.

Pollock was a genuine all-rounder. He had 2 Test centuries and 1 ODI century (if I remember correctly).

 

[kron]

Pollock is underrated though. Sure, McGrath was better bowler comfortably but when look as cricketer, Pollock averages 32 with bat in Tests and mid 20s in ODIs also. McGrath was a proper no.11, a genuine tailender. It is just McGrath played in a team where his legacy went on to build further and further while Pollock despite being good enough to contribute a lot with bat feel behind.

Mcgrath himself gets underrated. He is the goat bowler.

 

[Mamoon]

He is probably the most underrated bowler ever. The most accurate bowler I ever saw.

If he was Indian he would be hyped 100x times more than he is now and he’d probably have a biopic by now.

A greater cricketer than anyone in Indian cricket history.

 

[sweep_shot]

If he was Indian he would be hyped 100x times more than he is now and he’d probably have a biopic by now.

This is probably true. LOL. He probably would be labelled as an ATG after 2-3 away series.

 

[Rana]

This is probably true. LOL. He probably would be labelled as an ATG after 2-3 away series.

But Pollock was an ATG?

 

[sweep_shot]

But Pollock was an ATG?

South African ATG.

Not an overall ATG.

 

[Rana]

The most accurate bowler I ever saw

Well, that makes no sense or is a blatant lie.

If you saw Pollock bowl (which I doubt you did), then you must have seen McGrath bowl too. It’s absurd to claim Pollock was more accurate than McGrath. There are phases in cricket where Naseem Shah is the most accurate bowler in the world…do we use that to say “Naseem Shah is the most accurate bowler I have ever seen”?

 

[Rana]

South African ATG.

Not an overall ATG.

What?

Shaun Pollock is one of Cricket’s ATG. There is no disputing this.

 

[sweep_shot]

What?

Shaun Pollock is one of Cricket’s ATG. There is no disputing this.

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

 

[Rana]

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

Ok use my measuring stick of considering Pollock as an ATG and name 100-200 ATGs in cricket?

 

[Mamoon]

Well, that makes no sense or is a blatant lie.

If you saw Pollock bowl (which I doubt you did), then you must have seen McGrath bowl too. It’s absurd to claim Pollock was more accurate than McGrath. There are phases in cricket where Naseem Shah is the most accurate bowler in the world…do we use that to say “Naseem Shah is the most accurate bowler I have ever seen”?

Watching cricket from the late 90’s, so I saw both bowl. Not sure if you were born at the time, your mental maturity (lack of) suggests otherwise.

Pollock, McGrath and Ambrose are three of the most accurate bowlers I ever saw, with Josh Hazlewood fourth on the list.

In terms of accuracy, the three are neck and neck and you could go with any of them, but I go with Pollock ahead of McGrath because of the following factors:

Pollock generated a lot more swing and when you swing the ball more, it is harder to control your line. McGrath on the other hand barely got any swing and most of his movement was off the seam, it was easier for him to land the ball on the same spot. In spite of this, he had a slightly better ER than McGrath over a larger sample.

Furthermore, he had a better ER than McGrath vs India and in India, which isn’t an easy place to bowl in ODIs because of the flat pitches and India’s batting might.

Also, McGrath had the luxury of not bowling to Australia, who has the most powerful ODI lineup in the 2000s, and in spite of this, his ER was slightly less impressive than Pollock’s.

As a result of this, purely in terms of accuracy I do with Pollock. As an overall bowler, McGrath was definitely better than him.

 

[Rana]

Pollock, McGrath and Ambrose are three of the most accurate bowlers I ever saw, with Josh Hazlewood fourth on the list.

In terms of accuracy, the three are neck and neck and you could go with any of them, but I go with Pollock ahead of McGrath because of the following factors:

Pollock generated a lot more swing and when you swing the ball more, it is harder to control your line. McGrath on the other hand barely got any swing and most of his movement was off the seam, it was easier for him to land the ball on the same spot. In spite of this, he had a slightly better ER than McGrath over a larger sample.

Right,

I am totally confused at what you are trying to say. Either Pollock is the most accurate bowler you ever saw, or it was easier for McGrath trying to land the ball on the same spot because he didn’t swing it as much as Pollock?

Which one is it? Don’t be as confused as your identity as a cricket fan when making farfetched claims.

 

[Mamoon]

Right,

I am totally confused at what you are trying to say. Either Pollock is the most accurate bowler you ever saw, or it was easier for McGrath trying to land the ball on the same spot because he didn’t swing it as much as Pollock?

Which one is it? Don’t be as confused as your identity as a cricket fan when making farfetched claims.

I apologize, my analysis might have been too sophisticated for you. I will try to water it down for you.

Pollock was slightly more accurate than McGrath because he had a slightly better ER in the same era in spite of bowling to the best batting unit of the time which McGrath didn’t have the luxury to do so.

Moreover, McGrath’s bowling style made it easier for him (relative to Pollock) to be more accurate but in spite of this advantage, he wasn’t as accurate as Pollock.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mamoon]

Says the guy who thinks Asif Ali should be captain

 

[Rana]

Says the guy who thinks Asif Ali should be captain

Says the guy who thought Babar will win the T20 World Cup 2024

 

[Mamoon]

Says the guy who thought Babar will win the T20 World Cup 2024

I apologize for forgetting how rubbish Amir and Imad were.

 

[Rana]

Pollock was slightly more accurate than McGrath because he had a slightly better ER in the same era in spite of bowling to the best batting unit of the time which McGrath didn’t have the luxury to do so.

Well that’s an equally stupid claim isn’t it? Considering Pollock wasn’t bowling to SA batsmen of his time who were no slouches themselves.

He represented South Africa, look it up on google. Not Zimbabwe or Namibia. Shaun Pollock was South African.

 

[Mamoon]

Prove to me why McGrath should be considered a more accurate bowler than Pollock in spite of having an inferior ER in ODIs in spite of not bowling to the best batting unit of his time.

It is an open challenge to you and anyone who wants to dispute my claim. I will return tomorrow to see what you lot come up with.

Happy to change my mind if I see an intelligent argument and for that, I reckon I will have to wait for others because that ship has sailed for you.

 

[Rana]

I apologize for forgetting how rubbish Amir and Imad were.

Ask the PCB to apologise to you and Javed Afridi for begging those two to come back

 

[Mamoon]

Well that’s an equally stupid claim isn’t it? Considering Pollock wasn’t bowling to SA batsmen of his time who were no slouches themselves.

He represented South Africa, look it up on google. Not Zimbabwe or Namibia. Shaun Pollock was South African.

They were good but they were below Australian and Indian batsmen.

I said I can change my mind if I see an intelligent argument. This wasn’t intelligent.

 

[Rana]

They were good but they were below Australian and Indian batsmen.

eeeyaaah but no.

Pollock made his Test debut in 1995 and retired in 2008. In the meanwhile, he wasn’t bowling to batters of the caliber of,

Gary Kirsten
Hansie Cronje
Jacque Kallis
Hershelle Gibbs
Lance Klusenar
Greame Smith
Hashim Amla
Ab Devilliers

To name some illustrious names, there may be more who I have missed out but I don’t falsely claim to have watched cricket closely like you do in the 90s. Daryl Cullinan is a name I have missed out, he may will have been world class. Boetta Dippenaar another one who I have seen play, good batter. So Pollock’s had his fair share of not having to bowl to SERIOUS batters from SA too.

 

[Local.Dada]

He had all the skills, bowled at 135 clicks but could go above 140 if pitch and conditions required, played most of his cricket in SENA. There are a lot of cricketers whose success surprised me but Pollock definitely isn’t one of those. He was one of those players marked for greatness from his debut season and he delivered and had a great career.

 

[Ab Fan]

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

He is an ATG cricketer without any doubt. Even as bowler purely, he is a lower tier ATG.

From South Africa, you have Kallis, Steyn and S Pollock as top 3 test cricketers since readmission. Donald will be ahead as bowler but behind Pollock as cricketer.

 

[Local.Dada]

He is an ATG cricketer without any doubt. Even as bowler purely, he is a lower tier ATG.

From South Africa, you have Kallis, Steyn and S Pollock as top 3 test cricketers since readmission. Donald will be ahead as bowler but behind Pollock as cricketer.

Pollock and Steyn I feel we’re bigger match winners than Kallis. Kallis was one of the most boring batsmen I have ever seen but yes excellent technically.

 

[Mamoon]

eeeyaaah but no.

Pollock made his Test debut in 1995 and retired in 2008. In the meanwhile, he wasn’t bowling to batters of the caliber of,

Gary Kirsten
Hansie Cronje
Jacque Kallis
Hershelle Gibbs
Lance Klusenar
Greame Smith
Hashim Amla
Ab Devilliers

To name some illustrious names, there may be more who I have missed out but I don’t falsely claim to have watched cricket closely like you do in the 90s. Daryl Cullinan is a name I have missed out, he may will have been world class. Boetta Dippenaar another one who I have seen play, good batter. So Pollock’s had his fair share of not having to bowl to SERIOUS batters from SA too.

I repeat:

South Africa had a good batting unit, but not better or comparable to Australia and India.

Therefore, the fact that McGrath didn’t have to bowl to Australian batsmen was a huge advantage for him and in spite of this huge advantage, he had a slightly lesser economy rate than Pollock.

Furthermore, the fact that you mentioned Cullinan says everything. He was an average ODI batsman, certainly not even remotely close to being world class.

You clearly didn’t watch any cricket in the 90’s because if you did, you would never associate him with world class ODI batting.

Mentioning AB and Amla is laughable at best. Two players who didn’t come into their own in ODIs until McGrath retired.

Amla made his ODI debut a year after McGrath retired, so using his example to prove that McGrath bowled to equally good batsmen is pure comedy and shows that you only started watching few years back.

Same goes for AB, who must have only played 2-3 matches vs McGrath that too when he was very young.

I am more than happy to change my mind on this and it is not a tough ask for me because it is very close, but for that to happen, someone has to make an intelligent argument and you’re doing the total opposite.

 

[AMSS]

Ok use my measuring stick of considering Pollock as an ATG and name 100-200 ATGs in cricket?

Owned that bangaali poster lol

 

[Buffet]

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

You got to be kidding here, right?

In the last 50 years, how many pacer all rounder like Pollock has been produced by India, Pakistan, SL, Eng, NZ, Aus etc...

Forget about his batting, simply based on his bowling,

Only Wasim and IK from Pakistan better than Pollock
Ignoring Bumrah, because current player, better than any other Indian pacer.
Better than any pacer produced by Sl, BD in history.
Better than any pacer produced by Eng in the last 50 years.
Handful of pacers from WI, Aus and SA will come ahead, but he will surely land in the top 10 pacer in history when you consder both formats. Then add his batting. He was harder to hit than McGrath and Wasim in ODI format. He was as good as in pacers in test history in his first half of career.

100-200 players better, lol. You can't even list 5 pacers from entire Asia who were better than Pollock in both formats.

 

[AMSS]

It's frankly annoying we have these posters from minnow nations willy nilly calling a titan of the game like Pollock who took over 400 wickets at 22-23 not a legit ATG.

Where do they get the nerve from?

 

[Rana]

Prove to me why McGrath should be considered a more accurate bowler than Pollock in spite of having an inferior ER in ODIs in spite of not bowling to the best batting unit of his time

How big was the difference in their economies? Your making it sound as if it’s a 1-2 run difference between the two. The difference is 0.24 runs.

If both McGrath and Pollock bowl 60 deliveries, MG will go for 39 runs and Pollock will go for 37 runs. There is hardly a massive difference. Everyone who has seen both McGrath and Pollock play know that McGrath was the more feared bowler…this is nothing against Pollock who was great too.

Do you have pitch map stats or graphs to prove Pollock was more accurate than him? The economy debate isn’t conclusive

 

[Mamoon]

How big was the difference in their economies? Your making it sound as if it’s a 1-2 run difference between the two. The difference is 0.24 runs.

If both McGrath and Pollock bowl 60 deliveries, MG will go for 39 runs and Pollock will go for 37 runs. There is hardly a massive difference. Everyone who has seen both McGrath and Pollock play know that McGrath was the more feared bowler…this is nothing against Pollock who was great too.

Do you have pitch map stats or graphs to prove Pollock was more accurate than him? The economy debate isn’t conclusive

This is a slightly better line of argument. The difference in their economies is about the same as the difference in my rating for them.

If I would rate Pollock 10/10 in accuracy, I would rate McGrath 9.5, so there is hardly anything between the two but I go with Pollock because of better economy rate in spite of bowling to tougher batsmen.

 

[Rana]

Pollock made his Test debut in 1995 and retired in 2008. In the meanwhile, he wasn’t bowling to batters of the caliber of,

Gary Kirsten
Hansie Cronje
Jacque Kallis
Hershelle Gibbs
Lance Klusenar
Greame Smith
Hashim Amla
Ab Devilliers

This is what I said,

Why you twisting words in a deceitful manner @Mamoon

 

[Rana]

This is a slightly better line of argument. The difference in their economies is about the same as the difference in my rating for them.

If I would rate Pollock 10/10 in accuracy, I would rate McGrath 9.5, so there is hardly anything between the two but I go with Pollock because of better economy rate in spite of bowling to tougher batsmen.

When you said “Pollock is the most accurate bowler I have seen”….only to then say “It was easier to land the ball in the right spot for McGrath”. You contradicted yourself

 

[Mamoon]

This is what I said,

Why you twisting words in a deceitful manner @Mamoon

That’s a pointless argument because we are debating the caliber of ODI batsmen that Pollock and McGrath bowled to, so mentioning AB and Amla was a big fumble on your part - take it on the chin and move on.

 

[Mamoon]

when you said “Pollock is the most accurate bowler I have seen”….only to then say “It was easier to land the ball in the right spot for McGrath”. You contradicted yourself

I have presented my arguments for why I stand by what I said.

 

[shaz619]

Personified legend of the game, I don’t think we realised what we had during that era; players who you’d legit pay to see,

It was a pleasure to watch SA in those days and especially Pollock’s partnership with Donald, a nightmare for any team in any conditions. He had such a lovely action, never gave the batsman an inch and then Donald was coming next, a lot of the latter’s success should also be attributed to Pollock’s tight bowling, but he wasn’t just a defensive bowler either; excellent new and old ball skills, just the complete package, and he could friggin Bat, he had a phenomenal strike rate in ODI’s as well, could really put his weight into a shot!

SA cricketers in general are severely underrated, it’s also crazy that Kallis was a vital cog in the bowling line up across multiple era’s! he was chief support not just for Pollock/Donald but later on for Nitini, Philander & Steyn to.

Glad to see Rabada continue the legacy but is he Shaun Pollock? is he Donald? would I pay to see him like those guys? probably not, and it’s very sad indeed.

Enjoy your Bumrats, Babars and Rizwans peoples.

 

[Rana]

That’s a pointless argument because we are debating the caliber of ODI batsmen that Pollock and McGrath bowled to, so mentioning AB and Amla was a big fumble on your part - take it on the chin and move on.

I think you haste in understanding what I wrote just as you did in backtracking to admit McGrath and Ambrose are also the most accurate bowlers you have seen alongside Pollock (who you initially said is the most accurate you have ever seen)

I wrote Pollock didn’t have to bowl to AB and Amla (alongside the other big names I listed) as some examples of great Proteas batters….this is to counter your claim that McGrath didn’t have to bowl to the great Australian batters of his era. Stop twisting things and admit you have been caught out about your claim of watching cricket in the 90s.

I’m sure there are plenty of senior posters here that will vouch to this having caught you out making claims about something you are not when it comes to cricketing knowledge.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There were some players who adopted different strategy against him. Ganguly and Hayden both used to dance down the wicket against him in the LOI. Due to his height he could generate awkward bounce from a reasonably good length.

 

[Buffet]

It's frankly annoying we have these posters from minnow nations willy nilly calling a titan of the game like Pollock who took over 400 wickets at 22-23 not a legit ATG.

Where do they get the nerve from?

Yah, not just in test,

In ODI he has around 400 wickets at avg of 24 and ER of 3.6. ER is lower than McGrath and Wasim. Hardest bowler to score.

I mean, combining both formats he will be among the top 10 bowlers. It will be extremely hard to come up with 100 names better than Pollock as cricketer.

 

[Mamoon]

I think you haste in understanding what I wrote just as you did in backtracking to admit McGrath and Ambrose are also the most accurate bowlers you have seen alongside Pollock (who you initially said is the most accurate you have ever seen)

I wrote Pollock didn’t have to bowl to AB and Amla (alongside the other big names I listed) as some examples of great Proteas batters….this is to counter your claim that McGrath didn’t have to bowl to the great Australian batters of his era. Stop twisting things and admit you have been caught out about your claim of watching cricket in the 90s.

I’m sure there are plenty of senior posters here that will vouch to this having caught you out making claims about something you are not when it comes to cricketing knowledge.

I didn’t haste, you made an ignorant argument based on your lack of experience of watching cricket and now you’re desperately trying to wiggle your way out of it by making feeble attempts at rationalizing your argument.

You don’t know anything about the 90s which is why you viewed Cullinan as a world class ODI batsman. People like me who watched the late 90s would never associate the word world class with him in ODIs.

Besides, since when do you care about the “senior posters”? These are the same senior posters that you disagree with 24/7 when you come up with absurd nonsense like nominating Asif Ali for captaincy.

You are looking for support now because you know you have lost this debate after your fumble and you cannot rationalize why McGrath was more accurate than Pollock in ODIs in spite of higher ER and luxury of not bowling to the best batting unit of the 2000s.

It is funny how in spite of multiple desperate pleas, no one is interested in coming to your aid because no one one wants to fight your lost battle after you called Cullinan a world class ODI batsman and claimed that Amla faced McGrath in ODIs.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pollock and Steyn I feel we’re bigger match winners than Kallis. Kallis was one of the most boring batsmen I have ever seen but yes excellent technically.

In Tests, Kallis was better than Pollock. Just look at Pollock's 5-fer? Only 16. He lacked the ability to run through lineups in 2000s. Ntini was great bowler at home where he overshadowed Pollock while away, they were both average and from 2006 onwards, Steyn set the stage on fire.

 

[mominsaigol]

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

Theirs no such thing as south african ATG's or Pakistani Atg's. Your either an ATG or you're not, otherwise rashid khan and Ryan Ten doeshant are Nedtherlands and Afghani ATG's, it's just a made up term

Their are different tiers of ATG's, for example someone like Ricky Pointing is a higher tier ATG then someone like someone like Adam Gilchrist however that doesn't mean that gilchrist isn't an atg.

An atg is someone who has impacted the game, and not many players have impacted. For example someone like Adam zampa will likely never reach atg status despite being a terrific bowler but someone like Warne easily will.

Shaun Pollock is an atg, how many players have 829 international wickets with a very healthy eco rate, healthy avg and multiple 5 wicket hauls in theri career followed by notable batting knocks despite him not even being known for batting? Not many.

Someone like MS Dhoni wouldn't ever be considered an ATG of he wasnt born in India since he would not have the backing and pr hype in medicore teams, and he would never be made captain in top tier teams so he'd play only as a wicket keeper batter.

Dhoni is only an ATG captain not an ATG player, however because he belongs to India which is a 1.4B population he's been hyped up as the greatest finisher of all time even though Bevan was better at finishing, while Dhoni was only an Asian bully, Putside asia he's a good batsmen but nothing radiates ATG about him.

However he has pr hype and Indian media hype that elevates his status to ATG despite the fact that while he is an ATG, he's of a lower tier then Shaun Pollock via achievements but because Pollock isn't Indian, He doesn't get the hype or accreditation

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Personified legend of the game, I don’t think we realised what we had during that era; players who you’d legit pay to see,

It was a pleasure to watch SA in those days and especially Pollock’s partnership with Donald, a nightmare for any team in any conditions. He had such a lovely action, never gave the batsman an inch and then Donald was coming next, a lot of the latter’s success should also be attributed to Pollock’s tight bowling, but he wasn’t just a defensive bowler either; excellent new and old ball skills, just the complete package, and he could friggin Bat, he had a phenomenal strike rate in ODI’s as well, could really put his weight into a shot!

SA cricketers in general are severely underrated, it’s also crazy that Kallis was a vital cog in the bowling line up across multiple era’s! he was chief support not just for Pollock/Donald but later on for Nitini, Philander & Steyn to.

Glad to see Rabada continue the legacy but is he Shaun Pollock? is he Donald? would I pay to see him like those guys? probably not, and it’s very sad indeed.

Enjoy your Bumrats, Babars and Rizwans peoples.

I'd say Rabada is a better bowler than Ntini but maybe the class of batting has taken a hit in this age.

 

[Rana]

You don’t know anything about the 90s which is why you viewed Cullinan as a world class ODI batsman

Daryl Cullinan is a name I have missed out, he may will have been world class. Boetta Dippenaar another one who I have seen play, good batter.

This is what I wrote, where have I directly claimed Cullinan was a world class batsman?

 

[Rana]

I didn’t haste, you made an ignorant argument based on your lack of experience of watching cricket and now you’re desperately trying to wiggle your way out of it by making feeble attempts at rationalizing your argument.

You don’t know anything about the 90s which is why you viewed Cullinan as a world class ODI batsman. People like me who watched the late 90s would never associate the word world class with him in ODIs.

Besides, since when do you care about the “senior posters”? These are the same senior posters that you disagree with 24/7 when you come up with absurd nonsense like nominating Asif Ali for captaincy.

You are looking for support now because you know you have lost this debate after your fumble and you cannot rationalize why McGrath was more accurate than Pollock in ODIs in spite of higher ER and luxury of not bowling to the best batting unit of the 2000s.

It is funny how in spite of multiple desperate pleas, no one is interested in coming to your aid because no one one wants to fight your lost battle after you called Cullinan a world class ODI batsman and claimed that Amla faced McGrath in ODIs.

First you expose yourself of not actually having watched Pollock bowl (if he’s the most accurate bowler you have ever seen ),

Then you backtrack by claiming there are 3 others besides Pollock who are also the most accurate you have ever seen,

Then you bring up Asif Ali as captain in a debate between Pollock and McGrath being the most accurate bowler

Then you intentionally misread arguments to counter yours about McGrath not having to bowl to Australian batters, that too is because I doubt you really know who Shaun Pollock is and what country he is from.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Theirs no such thing as south african ATG's or Pakistani Atg's. Your either an ATG or you're not, otherwise rashid khan and Ryan Ten doeshant are Nedtherlands and Afghani ATG's, it's just a made up term

Their are different tiers of ATG's, for example someone like Ricky Pointing is a higher tier ATG then someone like someone like Adam Gilchrist however that doesn't mean that gilchrist isn't an atg.

An atg is someone who has impacted the game, and not many players have impacted. For example someone like Adam zampa will likely never reach atg status despite being a terrific bowler but someone like Warne easily will.

Shaun Pollock is an atg, how many players have 829 international wickets with a very healthy eco rate, healthy avg and multiple 5 wicket hauls in theri career followed by notable batting knocks despite him not even being known for batting? Not many.

Someone like MS Dhoni wouldn't ever be considered an ATG of he wasnt born in India since he would not have the backing and pr hype in medicore teams, and he would never be made captain in top tier teams so he'd play only as a wicket keeper batter.

Dhoni is only an ATG captain not an ATG player, however because he belongs to India which is a 1.4B population he's been hyped up as the greatest finisher of all time even though Bevan was better at finishing, while Dhoni was only an Asian bully, Putside asia he's a good batsmen but nothing radiates ATG about him.

However he has pr hype and Indian media hype that elevates his status to ATG despite the fact that while he is an ATG, he's of a lower tier then Shaun Pollock via achievements but because Pollock isn't Indian, He doesn't get the hype or accreditation

He is Ryan ten Doeschate

 

[mominsaigol]

He is Ryan ten Doeschate

Auto correct, Mafi bhai.

 

[KP From India]

Pollock is more underrated than Kallis. SA was playing with basically 13 players. It's like playing with Ash and Jaddu in the subcontinent.....

 

[Mamoon]

First you expose yourself of not actually having watched Pollock bowl (if he’s the most accurate bowler you have ever seen ),

Then you backtrack by claiming there are 3 others besides Pollock who are also the most accurate you have ever seen,

Then you bring up Asif Ali as captain in a debate between Pollock and McGrath being the most accurate bowler

Then you intentionally misread arguments to counter yours about McGrath not having to bowl to Australian batters, that too is because I doubt you really know who Shaun Pollock is and what country he is from.

Shaun Pollock is the most accurate bowler I have ever seen and I don’t think I will ever see anyone better in terms of accuracy.

 

[Rana]

Shaun Pollock is the most accurate bowler I have ever seen and I don’t think I will ever see anyone better in terms of accuracy.

Well, no.

McGrath was more accurate.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pollock is more underrated than Kallis. SA was playing with basically 13 players. It's like playing with Ash and Jaddu in the subcontinent.....

I think Pollock is the best South African cricketer of all time after Kallis.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Auto correct, Mafi bhai.

Mafi accepted

 

[Mamoon]

Well, no.

McGrath was more accurate.

You keep making pleas for “senior posters” to come to your aid but no one is showing up because you have put everyone off with your absurd claim that Cullinan was a world class ODI batsman and Amla faced McGrath.

McGrath was more accurate with an inferior economy rate in spite of having the privilege of not bowling to Australian batsmen.

 

[shaz619]

I'd say Rabada is a better bowler than Ntini but maybe the class of batting has taken a hit in this age.

Nitini was much better to watch, there was a great deal of badmashi in his approach to the crease, he bowled to far better batsman and more importantly, won the CT with SA which was their only trophy to date; a bit like Aamir who also won the CT and unlike Shaheen or Naseem.

 

[mominsaigol]

You keep making pleas for “senior posters” to come to your aid but no one is showing up because you have put everyone off with your absurd claim that Cullinan was a world class ODI batsman and Amla faced McGrath.

McGrath was more accurate with an inferior economy rate in spite of having the privilege of not bowling to Australian batsmen.

Glenn Mcgrath was more accurate my dude. Pollock has more variation and more pace.

Line and length and ER are 2 separate things. You can have a better er if you have more variation, Pace, and are able to bowl according to the batters weaknesses.

For example steyn kept getting hafeez put because he figured him out and learned exactly where to bowl to him but the sane things that worked on hafeez wouldn't work on kohli and you need to find another way.

If you're talking about pure accuracy, line and length, mcgrath was head and shoulders above.

Shaun Pollock ER has nothing to do with accuracy, it's more to do with his intelligence as a bowler.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Great bowler. Always on the money. He became quite slow towards the end but had decent pace throughout his career.

I think he has the most maidens in ODI cricket. One of the most accurate if not the most accurate bowler I've seen

 

[Rana]

You keep making pleas for “senior posters” to come to your aid but no one is showing up because you have put everyone off with your absurd claim that Cullinan was a world class ODI batsman and Amla faced McGrath.

McGrath was more accurate with an inferior economy rate in spite of having the privilege of not bowling to Australian batsmen.

GM’s List A economy is 3.8,

Which Australian batsman didn’t he bowl to?

 

[Rana]

You keep making pleas for “senior posters” to come to your aid but no one is showing up because you have put everyone off with your absurd claim that Cullinan was a world class ODI batsman and Amla faced McGrath.

McGrath was more accurate with an inferior economy rate in spite of having the privilege of not bowling to Australian batsmen.

Who is a more accurate Test bowler, Cummins or Mohammad Abbas? Both played in the same era of Test Cricket

 

[Mamoon]

GM’s List A economy is 3.8,

Which Australian batsman didn’t he bowl to?

I don’t know, but if you’re looking at his domestic record, then his economy rate is deflated by bowling to a lot of domestic Australian batsmen who wouldn’t have a chance of representing Australia because they were not good enough.

Who is a more accurate Test bowler, Cummins or Mohammad Abbas? Both played in the same era of Test Cricket

They’re about the same in terms of accuracy. Cummins is no Pollock, McGrath and Ambrose in terms of accuracy. Abbas is also a very accurate bowler.

 

[Buffet]

I think Pollock is the best South African cricketer of all time after Kallis.

So the second best cricketer from SA is not an ATG?

Pollock will easily get into all time XI of India, SA, Pak, SL, Eng, Aus, WI, NZ in ODI format.

He will also a strong condidate if not a guarateed spot for all time XI of most countries in test format.

And yet, he is not an ATG,lol.

If you consider him an overall ATG, there are probably 100-200 other guys would be ATGs also.

ATG labels shouldn't be handed out like candies.

He is a South African ATG without a doubt. But, him being an overall ATG is up for debate.

 

[jnaveen1980]

To understand how good a new ball bowler he was you have to look at the strike rate of openers against Pollock in his era.

Strike rates of leading batsmen vs Pollock in ODIs

Jayasuriya 69.5 in 213 balls 136 dots
Gilchrist 66.5 in 245 balls 166 dots
Ganguly 57.9 in 38 balls 25 dots
Hayden 73.3 in 165 balls 118 dots
tendulkar 17.1 in 76 balls ( staggering 68 dots )
sehwag 79.4 in 155 balls 111 dots


Nobody could dominate him.

 

[Buffet]

To understand how good a new ball bowler he was you have to look at the strike rate of openers against Pollock in his era.

Strike rates of leading batsmen vs Pollock in ODIs

Jayasuriya 69.5 in 213 balls 136 dots
Gilchrist 66.5 in 245 balls 166 dots
Ganguly 57.9 in 38 balls 25 dots
Hayden 73.3 in 165 balls 118 dots
tendulkar 17.1 in 76 balls ( staggering 68 dots )
sehwag 79.4 in 155 balls 111 dots


Nobody could dominate him.

+1

He may not be most accurate or most versatile or most dangerious, but Pollock was the most diffcult bowler to hit during his playing days. It's also refelcted in over all ER over a large sample size. Most aggresive batsmen found it hard to hit him without taking lots of risk.

 

[Rana]

Glenn Mcgrath was more accurate my dude. Pollock has more variation and more pace.

Line and length and ER are 2 separate things. You can have a better er if you have more variation, Pace, and are able to bowl according to the batters weaknesses.

For example steyn kept getting hafeez put because he figured him out and learned exactly where to bowl to him but the sane things that worked on hafeez wouldn't work on kohli and you need to find another way.

If you're talking about pure accuracy, line and length, mcgrath was head and shoulders above.

Shaun Pollock ER has nothing to do with accuracy, it's more to do with his intelligence as a bowler.

Your being kind

He hasn’t seen him bowl. Otherwise he wouldn’t argue Pollock was a more accurate bowler than McGrath. Mate I’ve seen both of them. GM was the undeniable king of accuracy, even Shaun Pollock would admit this…and GM would know he is lying if he was to say Pollock was more accurate than he was out of humility.