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How do you rate Steven Smith?

I liked this one the best only because he has just crushed England.

It was after he claimed a dodgy caught-and-bowled (given not out) in an ODI I believe.

So, we were all wrong. No shame in admitting it. Smith becoming even a Test-class player let alone an excellent player would not have been realistically anticipated by anyone who watched him 7 years ago.
 
Smith is a world class player and is marching towards legendary status. It is funny to read through the thread though.
 
It was after he claimed a dodgy caught-and-bowled (given not out) in an ODI I believe.

So, we were all wrong. No shame in admitting it. Smith becoming even a Test-class player let alone an excellent player would not have been realistically anticipated by anyone who watched him 7 years ago.

You were wrong on two counts, calling him a cheat and a dud player.
 
People are going on about Handscomb in a similar manner in which they did when Smith first arrived...

Mark my words the former will establish himself as a world class player. He’s got the temperament and ability just needs to explore his technique and once everything clicks he’s one of those that are near impossible to stop.
 
You were wrong on two counts, calling him a cheat and a dud player.

Dud player - I was wrong.

Tried to claim a caught-and-bowled when the ball bounced - is that not cheating?
 
Seriously.

This guy is an absolute embarassment. Macgill could bowl better than him even at his age now.

And who taught him how to bat? Chris Martin?

Keeping out much more worthy players, and he somehow gets the nod in all forms of the game.

There was a lot of hype around him in the start, and I thought he may need 1-2 years to prove himself, so I waited...and waited....and waited...but he has continously failed and so this thread is completely warranted now.

Surprised there was no thread about him already.

Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

(Somehow I think this thread may come back to haunt me when Smith holds up the Ashes urn and a World Cup trophy in the distant future).

inb4thathappens.

Oh god :ashwin
 
Dud player - I was wrong.

Tried to claim a caught-and-bowled when the ball bounced - is that not cheating?

If a player thinks the ball has carried and claims the catch is that cheating, you are assuming you know what he thought.

Now that you have claimed he is a cheat for claiming a catch that bounced will you accept every player that has done the same as a cheat?.
 
Averages 77 at home. Not sure what to make of it.
 
Unlike Bradman who based semi professional trundlers, Smith is scoring his runs against 21st century professionals where competition is extreme
 
People are going on about Handscomb in a similar manner in which they did when Smith first arrived...

Mark my words the former will establish himself as a world class player. He’s got the temperament and ability just needs to explore his technique and once everything clicks he’s one of those that are near impossible to stop.

Honestly think Handscomb just needs to move out of his crease more. Have his back foot where his front foot currently is and try that until he gets used to it.
 
Honestly think Handscomb just needs to move out of his crease more. Have his back foot where his front foot currently is and try that until he gets used to it.

Agreed. He's gotta come in front of the crease. Giving the bowler too much room to operate.
 
People are going on about Handscomb in a similar manner in which they did when Smith first arrived...

Mark my words the former will establish himself as a world class player. He’s got the temperament and ability just needs to explore his technique and once everything clicks he’s one of those that are near impossible to stop.


Handscomb will come good.
 
Time for another bump of this legendary thread. (Check OP)

First game against England since ban for Smith but seems like he was never away.
 
Seems he is still the best batsman in the world!
Playing well for last 5-6 matches.
 
Aussies are firm favourites now with Smith and Warner back. They are going to the finals for sure
 
A good knock today hope he gets his confidence back. Right now Kohli is best in Test, only he can challenge kohli in test. In ODI there is daylight between Kohli and second best. But good to see him in form. World cup will be more interesting
 
A good knock today hope he gets his confidence back. Right now Kohli is best in Test, only he can challenge kohli in test. In ODI there is daylight between Kohli and second best. But good to see him in form. World cup will be more interesting

Smith was the best in test before ban. Different league to Kohli at the time
 
What a player. Cannot believe some wrote him off and said he shouldn't be in the WC squad. Would not shock me if he played a gun knock in a must win game. To be honest his performances in the 2015 WC have helped cement his legacy, him failing in this tournament wouldn't be a big deal. But he has to perform in the ashes to take his status to the next level.


Brilliant brilliant player who I love watching bat.
 
Smith was the best in test before ban. Different league to Kohli at the time

He was, i know that. But he isn't right now. He will have to prove it. I guess, the kind of year Virat Kohli had in 2018, i don't think Steven Smith can have such a year not only him, hardly anyone might have had such a year.
 
First game back. Facing boos after what happened last year. Then he just scores an amazing century. What a player he is.
 
<B>2011- When the decade started</B>

The worst ever Australian player of all-time

<B>2019- When the decade is about to end</B>

Is he the best ever in tests since Bradman?

That's life :smith
 
<B>2011- When the decade started</B>

The worst ever Australian player of all-time

<B>2019- When the decade is about to end</B>

Is he the best ever in tests since Bradman?

That's life :smith

It’s hard work and not being afraid to try something different.

Cricket is incredibly static and gets bogged down by cliches, hyperboles, thought-processes but every once-in-a-while, it’s gets ramped up.

Steve Smith is the innovation of our lifetime within cricket. (In terms of players only.)
 
I didn’t expect him to be the GOAT, but I always thought he would have a respectable career once he concentrated on his batting . It was in the 2013 ashes, he scored a century. He returned to international cricket after a while, after that I thought he’ll be a good player. But no way I thought he would be this good.

Now he has found a way to combat lateral movement, he will be extremely difficult to stop.
 
Seriously.

This guy is an absolute embarassment. Macgill could bowl better than him even at his age now.

And who taught him how to bat? Chris Martin?

Keeping out much more worthy players, and he somehow gets the nod in all forms of the game.

There was a lot of hype around him in the start, and I thought he may need 1-2 years to prove himself, so I waited...and waited....and waited...but he has continously failed and so this thread is completely warranted now.

Surprised there was no thread about him already.

Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

(Somehow I think this thread may come back to haunt me when Smith holds up the Ashes urn and a World Cup trophy in the distant future).

inb4thathappens.

The reward of sticking with talent. Something Pakistan is bad at. EIther we stick with the useless talent like Rahat Ali, or we discard the genuinely talented players or never give them a chance e.g. Saud Shakeel, Zafar Gohar.
 
Steve Smith's ban on leading Australia ends in March but the star batsman may not want the Test captaincy back, coach Justin Langer says.

Smith skippered the team until he was suspended for 12 months over a brazen attempt to alter the ball with sandpaper under his watch in Cape Town last year.

Part of his punishment included a further year-long exile from any leadership role.

Calls have grown for Smith to take over from Tim Paine when the ban is lifted since his incredible batting performances helped Australia retain the Ashes against England.

But Langer said it was not a simple decision, with Smith admitting his exploits — 774 runs in just seven innings — left him mentally and physically shattered.

"I've built a good relationship with Steve over the last 18 months, and it [the captaincy] is going to come down to honest conversations," the coach told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation on Saturday.

“You can see how exhausted he was from the effort he put into his batting (during the Ashes), and whether he wants the burden of captaincy as well is something we'll have to work out over time.

“I'll be one of the selectors, and I think we'll just work out what's best.”

Paine, who will be 35 in December, will almost certainly retain the role for the home summer Test series against Pakistan and New Zealand, despite occasional criticism of his batting and captaincy during the Ashes.

Langer said he was "doing a brilliant job at the moment".

"He's been outstanding in his time as captain. However long he wants to keep playing for is another thing," he added.

Unlike Smith, former vice-captain David Warner endured a miserable return from the “sandpapergate” scandal, struggling to make double figures against England.

But Langer said he still had confidence in the explosive opener, who returned to form with a century for New South Wales in the Sheffield Shield last week.

"He had a poor series against England, no doubt. That's just a fact, and he knows that," Langer said.

"But he also hasn't lost his talent, because he was the highest run scorer in the World Cup two weeks before the Ashes started, and he was the highest run scorer in the IPL (Indian Premier League) before that. So he can bat.

"The other thing about David Warner, my experience tells me that you never write off champion players. And he's a champion player."

Link: https://www.dawn.com/news/1510626/australia-coach-langer-unsure-if-steve-smith-wants-captaincy-back.
 
Got stuck in a lift:

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Steve Smith is the best test batsman since Bradman. But he needs to finish his career on a high note. Ponting, Tendulkar, Kallis all were averaging in late 50s even after playing more than 100 tests but their averages eventually dropped to early to mid 50s. Sangakkara was wise to retire early.
 
His averaged reached 65 during 2019 ashes but since then it has been only downfall for him. With kind of technique he has i think he might end up with average of around 54/55 before he retires.
 
SS perhaps may have already had his career purple patch, but there is still every chance that he will accumulate another Test ton in one of the two remaining Ashes matches. A truly brilliant batting talent with a huge appetite for runs.
 
One of the all time best test batters. A sincere individual who gives his best every time regardless of occasion (unlike *coughs* Warner). But failed as a leader to control his team.
 
What is ailing Steve Smith?

All this discussion in the forum about Kohli’s lack of form but his chief nemesis has slipped under the radar. Fascinating article on Cricinfo today regarding Steve Smith’s decline since 2019 - averaging in his 40s vs the 70s earlier. Do you think he has lost his hand eye co-ordination or just his confidence since the Archer bouncer which hit him on the neck? Can he regain his former pure gold form?
 
One can't average 60+ forever. We saw it in previous generations too - the likes of Ponting/Dravid were elite for a good 5-year period but had to decline after that.
 
One can't average 60+ forever. We saw it in previous generations too - the likes of Ponting/Dravid were elite for a good 5-year period but had to decline after that.

Its not just about his average, the guy is visibly struggling against the short ball. Also keep in mind, he has played mostly at home during this period.
 
Perhaps Smith is not a >60 averaging batter on current form and he may have had his career purple patch already, but he is clearly still a very good player who contributes solidly and will go big on occasion.

It will also be interesting to see after his bowling cameo in Sydney if his part-time legspinners start to come back into the equation.
 
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Steve Smith's test average drops below 60. What are your thoughts?

As Ashes 2021-2022 comes to an end, Steve Smith's batting average has dropped to 59.87. Is this the beginning of the end for Smith? Could Smith still be considered the best test batsman since Bradman, given the bowling friendly period he plays in? Or does Smith not qualify because of sub-60 average? If he doesn't retire with a 60+ average, how would it affect his legacy? What might his final average be when he retires?

Share your thoughts.
 
He never “looked” like a >60 averaging batter with his technique, but he was churning out the runs so nobody could really argue. He looks uncomfortable and out of form at the moment for sure. Certainly in this match he has looked like a wicket waiting to fall in both innings. Odd.
 
He now averages 38 since the start of the Oval Test against England in September 2019, that's across 15 Test matches so not exactly a small sample size. He's only scored a single century in that period.
 
Since NZ targetted him with the short ball, everyone has started to target his body. With the bounce in Australia Smith is having trouble negotiating the leg side line

It remains to be seen what he does outside Australia and pitches with lesser bounce
 
Since NZ targetted him with the short ball, everyone has started to target his body. With the bounce in Australia Smith is having trouble negotiating the leg side line

It remains to be seen what he does outside Australia and pitches with lesser bounce

Bounce has never bothered Smith before though, he seems to have changed after getting concussion.
 
This is the first time Steve Smith has not scored a century in an Ashes series since 2010/11.
 
As Ashes 2021-2022 comes to an end, Steve Smith's batting average has dropped to 59.87. Is this the beginning of the end for Smith? Could Smith still be considered the best test batsman since Bradman, given the bowling friendly period he plays in? Or does Smith not qualify because of sub-60 average? If he doesn't retire with a 60+ average, how would it affect his legacy? What might his final average be when he retires?

Share your thoughts.

Bowling-friendly period? Seriously? This is one of the best bowling eras ever. Test batting in the 2010s has been no joke.
 
This is why Tendulkar is the greatest batsman of all-time. He maintained the peak for 15 long years,1993-2003 and 2007-11.

Many great batsmen maintain their peak for 6-7 years and then go to decline and then retire. Tendulkar kept coming hard and kept dominating world cricket for years and years. He is the Undertaker of the WWE.
 
Bowling-friendly period? Seriously? This is one of the best bowling eras ever. Test batting in the 2010s has been no joke.

I was being reserved but yeah, this is the most bowling friendly era since WWII. If you don't count stats pre WWII as relevant to modern context, the last 5 years have been the most bowling friendly of all time.
 
He now averages 38 since the start of the Oval Test against England in September 2019, that's across 15 Test matches so not exactly a small sample size. He's only scored a single century in that period.

Far below his normal standards, but not too bad. Ups and downs can happen for any batsman, including Smith.
 
I think if Smith gets to 10,000 runs even an average of 55 puts him in the discussion for the best after the Don, as his peak and ability to dominate series are unmatched by all but Sobers; obviously other batsmen like Tendulkar have him in other areas. If he was to average 60 then I think he is clearly the 2nd greatest tbh
 
This is why Tendulkar is the greatest batsman of all-time. He maintained the peak for 15 long years,1993-2003 and 2007-11.

Many great batsmen maintain their peak for 6-7 years and then go to decline and then retire. Tendulkar kept coming hard and kept dominating world cricket for years and years. He is the Undertaker of the WWE.

I mean Bradman averaged 106 after the age of 37 Tendulkar averaging in the 50's 'dominated'
 
I think if Smith gets to 10,000 runs even an average of 55 puts him in the discussion for the best after the Don, as his peak and ability to dominate series are unmatched by all but Sobers; obviously other batsmen like Tendulkar have him in other areas. If he was to average 60 then I think he is clearly the 2nd greatest tbh

First of all comparing players from pre 1955 eras to modern day players is not correct.

Bradmad played in only 2 countries. Here we have players who play in 4 different countries in 12 months.

So lets leave that.

Coming to comparison of Smith to other modern day greats.

Sobers Viv Tendulkar Lara Ponting Kohli these are the best batsmen post 1955 who you can compare Smith with.
 
To add to this, if we are rating Bradman < Tendulkar you are also rating Hammond < Cummins as a test bat. Also, how do you explain a player like Weekes who dominates on both sides of your arbitrary 1955 divide
 
To add to this, if we are rating Bradman < Tendulkar you are also rating Hammond < Cummins as a test bat. Also, how do you explain a player like Weekes who dominates on both sides of your arbitrary 1955 divide

1955 is not arbitrary. Post 1955 you would see that test teams started touring the subcontinent and played on spinning tracks. Thats a big difference.

Thats why any cricketer from pre 1955 era should not be compared to the post 1955 era.

Australia has struggled massively to win in India and if i am not wrong have one series victory in India in last 50 years.
 
1955 is not arbitrary. Post 1955 you would see that test teams started touring the subcontinent and played on spinning tracks. Thats a big difference.

Thats why any cricketer from pre 1955 era should not be compared to the post 1955 era.

Australia has struggled massively to win in India and if i am not wrong have one series victory in India in last 50 years.

It’s just a cop out. Compare Headley to Weekes. Weekes played in many more countries than Headley but despite that it is abundantly obvious that Headley > Weekes. Likewise for Bradman. You can’t hold lack of opportunities against them when they were clearly just better batsmen.
 
It’s just a cop out. Compare Headley to Weekes. Weekes played in many more countries than Headley but despite that it is abundantly obvious that Headley > Weekes. Likewise for Bradman. You can’t hold lack of opportunities against them when they were clearly just better batsmen.

You know Ponting averaged like 20 in India, right? Dravid averaged 25 in South Africa. Conditions are the biggest factor determining a batter's average. There's a reason people consider players pre 1950s as amateurs
 
You know Ponting averaged like 20 in India, right? Dravid averaged 25 in South Africa. Conditions are the biggest factor determining a batter's average. There's a reason people consider players pre 1950s as amateurs

Dravid averages 29 in South Africa.
 
You know Ponting averaged like 20 in India, right? Dravid averaged 25 in South Africa. Conditions are the biggest factor determining a batter's average. There's a reason people consider players pre 1950s as amateurs

Yep but you can't argue against someone and say they are worse because they didn't have the opportunity. The other thing to consider is that conditions were much more varied; stickies were prevalent and wickets like Manchester 1956 were complete turners.

And a failure for Bradman similar to Ponting's would be averaging 40 anyway in comparison, maybe dragging his average maybe down to 90. Anyway, he is tested against spin and maintained his average vs 3 ATG spinners; O'Reilly, Grimmett and Verity
 
1955 is not arbitrary. Post 1955 you would see that test teams started touring the subcontinent and played on spinning tracks. Thats a big difference.

You think there were no turning tracks before 1955 outside the Subcontinent? There were dustbowls in England and Australia.

Also sticky dogs where skippers would reverse the batting order hoping that the wicket would dry out. These are unknown today.
 
I mean Bradman averaged 106 after the age of 37 Tendulkar averaging in the 50's 'dominated'

Yeah after Bradman is what I forgot to add.

Nevertheless, my point there was just that you look at the other greats of the game and can think of 6-7 years of peak but Tendulkar in contrast had maintained 15 years of peak(1993-2003 and 2007-11).

If I get a player who will maintain around 60 average for 15 years compare to another player who is maintaining 65 for 6 years, I would rather go with the former than latter.
 
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